 Welcome back, this is Y-24 channel and today is business Tuesday. We are strictly discussing matters business and today on our discussion is a shortage of maize or the maize crisis in the country and with me in studio we have two amazing guests to be able to put this into perspective. We have Dorcas who is an expert as well and we have Chris who is a farmer, a young farmer Karibuni Sanan, today you're all looking good because Chris you don't look like a farmer you know farmers, they're youths looking at you right now watching us right now if you tell them you're a farmer they'll be like no farmers this is not a farmer no actually it's a new generation actually we expect at least farmers when is now ag business that means actually we are trying to now actually commercialize your inputs so we expect at least farmers nowadays to be in courts in courts not in both and i don't know some and actually that's the problem we've had for so many years like the young generation we've grown up with this mentality that farmers not only parara farming kitu na bo but you see like it's encouraging actually for even someone who's young like me because that's its office by the way so i think the moment we change our mindset and know that even a farm in someone's office because so many people generate income from farming i think in the right direction as young people i don't know young people really fear farming they go to the university get their degree and they're like no even those who pursuze courses like agribusiness or agriculture in world they don't want to go to the farm they want white collar jobs what can you tell them Chris so okay you take me when you say your scenario back in high school yeah when actually people doing agriculture people used to at least be late to you you are doing agriculture whatsoever but i see that because it becomes is one of the backbone of this economy actually i actually prefer change of perspective actually in this sector these are very vital part actually this is very fundamental part of the economy business as a whole farming so the perception the wrong perception that we are in the past that no mara agriculture is a matter of just being dirty no the perception actually change let us do let us commercialize the agribusiness actually yeah i want to echo what you're saying sure i did agriculture in me as a degree and i remember when i shared with my friends like i'm doing agriculture they like they look like oh so there's a cost like agriculture but the scenario is changing there have been so many initiatives that are involving youth it's called youth in agribusiness forums or other initiatives at least the encouraging young people they're supporting them they are really pushing them like you guys agriculture is a way to go okay yes so can we say that uh this at least technology advancement in the sector that can actually encourage youths more youths to dive into this sector yes um expert when you talk about uh technology these um there have been so many emerging technologies if i may put them and the young people are the ones who are exposed to it there is what we call digital agriculture we use smartphones smartphones every now and then and um these smartphones they can be used for the good not only social media and facebook and whatsapp and what their groups where people sell produce their groups where people get information so the trend is changing the technology technology has actually assisted in agricultural production in so many ways only that the young people have misplaced priorities in using the technology but it's actually they're very very efficient ways that technology has helped apart from information people are getting uh i mean the major and big information people are getting uh information maybe on where they can get seeds at an affordable price they are there these blogs and everything on how we can produce the methods the procedures there's also the platforms for selling so basically we have there this agribusiness expose so basically there's so many things that are really encouraging increase you're a farmer okay what's what's kind of what do you farm like what is in your farm or do you have at least technology advancement or you're using the old techniques actually when you talk of when you talk of technology there's a vital thing that comes to my mind when you talk of technology we should be talking of maximization or or economies of scale that means we are able to produce much with the very furious process and that is the most fundamental thing behind our business so when I talk of technology maybe in a sector like for example distribution sector the challenge that we get that is that most of the farmers they lack information there's information asymmetry in the market this information asymmetry actually leads to a lot of information in search of where is the market what are the necessary costs of what are the inputs actually that we need what are the possible crop and control measures so technology is a while is is actually a kiz is actually very vital in this uh air production actually and do you think there'll be more maize production this year compared to last year maize production on my perspective actually maize production depends on a variety of factors we talk of even maybe rainfall as being a factor maybe the type of soil in that area like we get that in most areas that we have most areas in the country that they do it once is on actually while the areas that are actually based with the good enough rain for like the highland general kisi nyanza region people are able to do two plantations so according to me I would prefer that actually there will be more actually the government should come in actually to actually maybe subsidize the input so that we are able to realize this mass production actually the maize sector that is very vital so inputs and all other factors do you think what has do you think the government and other stakeholders are doing enough to ensure there's enough production in the country as an expert um I'd say yes partly and no partly because in the 21st century we shouldn't be discussing about maize deficit in Kenya sure because maize is the most I I I do not know about any household that doesn't consume maize it's one produce that when the prices hike people on the streets because it's the major major food that people eat in Kenya so in the 21st century I think I think we are stagnating as a nation that we've been seeing maize production maize production population is going the pollution is increasing we are at 40 million compared to 10 years ago meaning the consumption is going up but when you look at our production methods I will say partly the government has failed us and partly also the farmers have have had some laxity on their part uh we've just talking about we've spoken about our technology we'd find uh farmers um because we've not had we've not had and imagines of so many young people we find mostly okay the trend is changing us but we find mostly I don't know him I stand to be corrected that most farmers are still let's me say they was there the old people so you see with changing times they're still stuck to the old methods of production and those methods are the same ones that we are keeping to repeat that we want we want to get bumper harvest but you don't have to change the methods you are using and partly I'd say that um the government because you have the national the national serials which is mandated by the government to take care of the serial sector maize being one of them and it's heartbreaking or rather it's devastating to hear that nctb saying the shortage of maize and farmers have maize in their in their stores or warehouses so where is the disconnect where is the disconnect as a farmer letting speak and then I'll give my view on where the disconnect is just uh just on Dhaka's point actually to just lay more emphasis I'd like to actually narrate this situation that her maize production actually I think there's actually it has declined majorly due to the price of discrimination you find that most of the farmers actually have been to the fields and you find that there's a lot of production but the crops actually not because there's a lot of price discrimination when we're not trying to commercialize because the main number of production should be actually to commercialize our products to get some money to earn a living to take children to school out of this so that when the government actually can call it cartels yes when some few cartels yes some few cartels organized with some brokers actually today to to to kuyanyasa I can say let me just use that term please kuyanyasa that is something that discourages people it it actually makes people to shift over the of the sector that is very fundamental maize being a staple food this should be actually in fact this one should be clear that a national disaster okay your answer now okay actually I'm very I'm thinking this noise because this is the backbone look at even Nairobi as a capital city of Kenya the population of here is quite abundant their production is on the root of errors when you're going to discriminate farmers you're going to give low low payment to the farmers this will actually move them out of the market so these are very vital as I think the government okay some you do you want to answer I shoot another question shoot another one okay yes there is a this disconnect I want to categorically mention I will deal with the ncpb because that is the state cooperation that has been mandated to take care of these small farmers these people are supposed to buy the maize from the farmers actually it's more of a marketing linkage they're supposed to help the farmers market they're supposed to help the farmers in getting maybe fertilizer and seeds and they're supposed to have as it's called a strategic grain reserve whereby the stock maize in the in the presence of in the future will have a shortage so we shouldn't be talking about shortage so that's why I'm going with the ncpb but if you see all these we're seeing there's no shortage it's just an official shortage yeah actually there are two types of shortages there is artificial shortages they are the shortage that is caused by as human beings people the people hold maize like someone who is he said the cut tells someone would go and buy buy maize and keep them so so right now we can say they are holding those maize right now as you speak even the farmers themselves are holding maize because because of the prices but being given is not making sense of which I side with them because there's no way in three four months you've been investing in fertilizer seeds looking for for laborers in the farm and then when you do your calculations and then of the month you're going at a loss so you'd rather keep it and sell it the way you know or whichever way that will make it profitable for you and that is where you find we don't have maize but farmers have maize and again these farmers they don't know how to store in the process of storing maize you find the aflatoxins have been affected it just you find insects have happened in me so it's another case now again they're going at a double loss atu jauza mind it now it really it has been infested by the the pest and the wad so I think it's it's a fight yeah okay your point Chris your point Chris let me just give you a nice start according to my perspective actually mm-hmm I there's a there's a research that says that uh uh the economy apart from the current scale we have economic advantage that means that we have a lot of areas in this country that can really produce the maize yes but I think uh some some sectors actually of the government over the cultural sector are actually failing to do their work we have even the cultural research institutes like the Calvo these people they do research but well as this research they go to the grant of the farmers actually to give them maybe of the work of the affordable farming skills uh let me interject that one for Calro I would uh I partly do research for Calro I can testify there over there are over 200 varieties of maize that Calro has researched on and the trails have been done uh Calro in conjunction in simit simit is that is that is an NGO the government can trust this agency is actually these these institutions to do their research but the most fundamental the most criminal part is that this information is not reaching the farmers it's not reaching the farmers mostly mostly do these information even reach the small scale farmers because you've seen more support is being poured on large scale farmers and small scale farmers are being neglected I'd say that I'd say that I agree with him but not like a hundred percent because this trials are done on people's farms okay when before Calro releases seeds that this seeds can be grown and they are fit for human consumption and they can do well in this and this areas because you see Calro has various maize varieties according to regions right so there is the the maize variety that does well in Kitui maybe in taken to western Kenya it went to Aksina so partly yes they try but not to the level that they're supposed to because you see before maize is released to the market and even packaged in the agravus to be sold trails have been done where this trial is done first of all they are done in in the they are done farms for Calro and then to introduce to a few farmers so I think from from one farmer to another the dissemination is also that there's that there's a breakage in information flow okay yes and Chris I asked this question do you think small scale farmers get enough support compared to even large scale farmers before he says they don't that is that is automatic that is automatic then there's a yes it is true that development put a lot of emphasis on mass production which is also good but we should not neglect the small scale farmers actually I I prefer that they should be a platform actually to encourage these small scale farmers to produce more this one could we can tell you when the government actually subsidizing the input and maybe some knowledge to the small scale farmers but they cannot just to light care production and do we ensure there is a consistency in mass production as a country as farmers I think as a country I hope the leaders are listening to us where you talk of food food is the backbone you cannot work without food there's you cannot work you cannot be productive without food it is it is exactly something that is quite vital here so about maize about maize actually the the shorting madam said actually doctor has said something about holding I think that is what actually happening the maize is there it is there the farmers they are waiting for that price that so if they keep on holding on the maize because of the prices this is to blame millers are closing down actually we've had cases of millers closing down there used to be this structure that really worked if you talk about mass production of the 3.5 million farmers maize farmers we have in Kenya that's an approximate figure as that I think 2017 2018 I think majority are small scale farmers this large scale and medium they actually they are countable they are few so we cannot rely on large scale alone yes they have the capacity you can't compare a farmer who has 100 acres of land with that and was one acre you cannot compare them sure and this is the poor given priority you even so yourself when the minister the minister for agriculture was being vetted or rather was not vetted sorry was being grilled that who are these poor who are paid you see the large scale potatoes are paid over 200 million and their farmers were crying they haven't been paid so there's this system that it was there and it worked I don't know if it's still I don't think it's it's no longer efficient because there used to be the is it the collection centers or the farmer groups that are coming together you see if if if if maybe ncpb wants 100 bags of course maybe let's work with an acre which can produce at maximum bring 50 to 60 bags okay so you see if you get in farmers in such an area and do the collection together you can actually come up with the mass that you want but now we are dealing we are like it's like we are slicing them like uh pambare na halyenu yeah yeah the large scale farmers cannot they cannot sustain the demand for maize alone yeah even if they are even if they have the large firms they cannot that is why we still import maize because at the end of the day the large scale are the ones who are being paid or rather delivering to some even ghost deliveries there was no maize delivered but they have a rapport but you get okay we've had cases of fertilizers being so expensive to an extent of which a small scale farmer cannot afford those inputs the farm inputs among others what are other challenges facing the small scale farmers and are farmers as general okay you and also you answer that question for me okay to best of my view we have a a lot of challenges that face actually maize in this in this case maize farmers in this case but uh there's some that i think uh just due to some few people maybe sleeping on their jobs like uh we maybe could talk of rainfall maybe that rainfall is some that maybe sometimes you can't control the short but there are other things like for example in my area these are these are clear instance that is happening in my area you get that they sometimes the government yes they do their part of maybe maybe giving the inputs like the fertilizers yet they have some few cartels that upon the government actually giving out these fertilizers they are not clear channel of actually distributing the farmers they stock these things they stock these fertilizers they sell them extravagantly the farmers so i think uh the the key issue that i could just summarize with is that they need to be an information flow this information has seen it the farmers knowledge there's no awareness even this institution that people do research there's no awareness in fact the farmers from my areas they don't know even the institution that exists in the areas they don't even they don't even know it under awareness for us to achieve this maybe challenges the challenges that are there that are adverse they must be a platform for awareness and knowledge all coming actually okay you're fine i'll take my final take i will echo with him that i mentioned earlier times changed and the information carriers are the extension officers and i think extension died in kenya it did so i i'd give besides information i think the other one two there are many factors but maybe i'll point out to two or three that the maize import is killing the small holder farmers because they're coming at those countries that we're importing maize from that they have lower production costs so when they come here our farmers that is why they keep their maize another thing i want to mention is he's already mentioned it the middlemen and these are the people who make prices fluctuate because when i'm producing it's 3000 bob i look for to 3000 bob by the time i'm selling my maize it's 2300 now i hear 90 kg bag yes it's going for 25 actually so my parting short is that i think we still have a long way to go and we cannot do without small holder farmers we really need they really need to be supported and the main thing that they need to be supported on is the training apart from information there is a training aspect that it is sad that about 10 percent of our production it's it's lost apakatikati you see from the farm to where it reaches our table we've lost we'll we'll lose about eight to ten million bags in a year so there needs to be training on how to handle the maize from the farmer even as take it to the storage even as take it to the processors well thank you so much Dorcas and Chris that was Dorcas an expert and Chris uh farmer well thank you so much for tuning in to i244 channel today being business Tuesday until next time my name is Miriam Asava good night and god bless you