 Alright, can you go oh wow you guys can hear me really well, can't you? Alright, my name is Eric Escobar I'm a security engineer for Barracuda Networks, and today I'm gonna be talking to you guys about discovering and triangulating rogue cell towers So a bit about me. I started out as a civil engineer and when I say started out I went through got my bachelors my masters and now I have a PE. I'm a licensed civil engineer My parents love that but I told them I was gonna go into computers so that that didn't go over so well So I've always loved computers. I've always nerded out on all things wireless even before that I was a licensed ham radio operator and I also love to automate things so my chicken coop is automated opens closes feeds them does the whole thing and my sprinklers are run by a cron job So that's that's the level of nerd that we're talking And so three years ago was when I started working at Barracuda Networks I was previously about exactly three years ago pumping water in the middle of a field As a civil engineer doing some well maintenance and then I got a lucky break from my great boss and he said hey You know what? I think you have a good mind for this if you want to try the security space then You know we'd love to have you and so I took him up on it And then we headed over to DEF CON and since then I've been in all things wireless So the first year somebody asked me are you the Fox and I said No, I'm not the Fox. What are you talking about? And they said hey, I'm doing the wireless CTF and I said wireless CTF I could totally get involved with that the next year we came back thinking we're just gonna go look for the Fox And we ended up winning the wireless CTF So that was really great. And then this year hopefully When I get done with this talk we will have won second year in a row. So that would be pretty awesome, too Alright, so a bit about what I do at Barracuda Networks. I'm a security engineer like I said So I do incident response stuff with my team pen testing We do red team Fridays where we bring in pizza and red team our network, which is pretty awesome I've even been lucky enough to do some social engineering campaigns fishing campaigns And if any of you guys are bug crowd researchers When it was just Barracuda doing it you probably talked to me at some point in time I also do infrastructure scanning and I've done a little bit of IPAM work and multi-factor authentication for Barracuda All right, so today what we're gonna cover is What is a rogue cell tower? Why you should care about rogue cell towers? How to detect a rogue cell tower? How to find one after you've detected it and how you can build a detector at home And then once you've detected one what the heck do you do with it? All right, so first up. What is a rogue cell tower? Well, it's something that's purchased by companies governments or other hackers And it has the ability to trick your phone into thinking that it's a real cell phone tower So it's kind of like an evil twin attack if you're familiar with wireless at all These are known as emzy catchers interceptors cell site simulators stingrays and there's probably a few other things But really they're pretty much called cell site simulators or emzy catchers because stingrays They're popular you know my is is a corporate term or it's the name of the actual company that makes them And rogue cell towers have the ability to collect information about you indirectly just through metadata and metadata can tell you a lot of Things about you call length Numbers that you've dialed and those kinds of things and in some conditions. They can even downgrade Your connection And so they can listen to your messages your calls and they can even get some data All right, so how are they used today? I'm not gonna go over this whole lot, but but pretty much the ACLU has identified 66 agencies and 24 states that own stingrays These have been used to monitor demonstrations in the United States such as in Chicago and the political protests last year There was Freddie Martinez. He talked at the crypto village and he did a great talk on freedom of information act requests and dealing With emzy catchers and how to prove that they're actually being used And then it's also possible to make an emzy catcher at home Chris back in Defcon 18 he made an actual emzy catcher and showed it off And that was way more technical than I could probably ever hope to do in any time soon but it's a really cool trick or not trick it's a really cool hack and From there basically we're gonna see if we could detect what he did So if you want to know more about cell side simulators or if this is the first time that you've ever heard that Go check out the EFF and ACLU. They have these two Great links and they're awesome for just getting a lot more information and it goes far more in depth than I could do And even a full presentation about that And so abroad they're also used there's not a whole lot of great data on this But we know that there have been you know sightings of these in Ireland the UK China Germany Norway South Africa Chinese spammers are also caught using this to send spam fishing messages And they're used by governments and corporations alike and and I think corporate espionage is also where they're used in terms of There's a lot of other data that they would probably want from their competitors And if somebody doesn't have a way to detect a cell side simulator you could be giving up corporate secrets without even knowing it So let's talk about what the emzy is an emzy catcher so emzy stands for international mobile subscriber identity It's used as a means of identifying a device on the cell network. It's typically 15 digits long And it contains information about your device So there's the MCC, which is the mobile country code the MNC Which is the network code and there's the mobile subscription identity identification number or MSIN So all of the country codes the MCC are available on Wikipedia So if you want to look one up, maybe you make one of these devices You want to say hey that doesn't look like the United States country code And if you're in the United States, you know what what should mine be And you see something come up you can take a look at these they're all on Wikipedia same thing with MNC All of these are available. There's a big list of them. So if you're ever curious, you can just head on over there and check it out So basically to summarize all that and emzy is a unique identifier to your device So that that's you I mean that's like your MAC address of your laptop that that's what can identify your device And so if you swap, you know your SIM card into different phones Then that's something that that can still identify that SIM card itself. And so here's what a Sample emzy would look like so you can see it has the MCC which is 310 for the USA has the MNC for AT&T And that's 026 and then the unique identifier, which is your MSIN So why should you care about this? Well, if somebody were to drive up and have an emzy catcher You know, maybe you're sitting there and you're having coffee at a coffee shop You're one big fish in that or you're a one fish in that big net So what could happen is if they're driving up and say they're say somebody's looking for someone in the area And they think that they're there they grab all of the information because your phone It just goes for the song strongest signal strength And so if they if it happens to be that that emzy catcher then that's you and it doesn't matter if it's a government It doesn't matter if it's a hacker these things are easy to build for less than you know a couple grand And to get all that personal information. It could be well worth it And also there was a talk of LTE downgrade to GSM this year. And so that's another thing that you sell tower Controls, you know some of the options that are sent to the mobile device And so if they want to downgrade you you can totally do that I saw a couple times when I was upstairs in the wireless village that What had happened is it downgraded from LTE to 2g and you knew something bad was going on So that that's just one way is you're just a small fish in a big net and they can catch anybody that's around you All right, so why should you care about this? Well, I think if you don't know by now there's a couple reasons why you should Your phone will connect automatically to cell site simulators. It doesn't matter You know, it's not like a connecting to an access point with your cell phone. What will happen is Your phone will just pick the thing that has the strongest signal doesn't ask you it doesn't say Hey, this one looks kind of fishy. It just says hey, this one gives me the best signal. Let's go from there And thieves can steal your personal information hackers can track where you go who you're talking to and then grab all sorts of data about you Your digital life can be sniffed out of the air by anyone and I mean, it's the hardware is always coming down in cost And your company could be leaking trade secrets I mean just think about two factor authentication if it's sent over sms and they can intercept that You know, then they could have that second factor if they've already got your password Not to mention a lot of people think that text messages are You know, they're extremely private and if you don't believe so just ask somebody. Hey, can I flip through your text messages real quick? They won't let you All right, so why build a detector? So there's some android phones that have apps that you know that you can do this But I found that you need to have a specific model and you also need to have it root to work And I wanted something cheaper. I didn't want to have a phone dedicated only to just watching cell towers And I also wanted a device that was really cheap. I mean I'm I just want something that's you know around $50 so that it's easy to make and it's not like oh Well, you could totally detect them for a couple grand And I also wanted to be able to set it and forget it and I wanted to be alerted to any anomalies I didn't want to have to be something where I got suspicious all of a sudden I had to go turn it on and figure out How to rig it all up I wanted to be and I wanted the ability to network them together So if I wanted three if I wanted five if I wanted a hundred I wanted the ability to just plug it into the network and Have them all talk to each other So how do you actually detect rote cell tower? Well every cell tower or a base transceiver station bts beacons out information about itself and this is available to your phone But you know it has stuff like the the radio frequency channel number that it's on We talked about the mcc the mnc the cell id the location area code So that's specific to where you actually are The transmit power and some neighboring cells neighboring cells. I haven't had a lot of luck with but all the rest should still be enough to to do it Um so like I said these values should remain pretty constant You know you don't want your country code to change because if you're not in the united states Then all of a sudden you I mean you could have a problem you you know that if you're in the united states You should have a 310 if it's not then something something else is going on Um the mnc your network code shouldn't change the cell tower the unique identifier shouldn't change the area code Shouldn't change and the transmit power that shouldn't also that should also not change Uh now there's reflections and things and ways that that can change but overall at a period of time you should just average out Um so okay, so how do you so if values deviate from what you've expected it can mean that there's some maintenance taking place It's not necessarily that hey all of a sudden transmit power went down or maybe a cell tower went down It could just mean that something is deviated and it can just mean that changes are being made to the network But that's the whole reason why I wanted to be able to go find it because if there's a new signal that's coming out I want to go see hey is this a cell tower that's messing up is this you know Maybe they're adding some extra you know carriers to it there could be something actually happening So the ability to go out and find it is is really crucial to knowing if something's actually happening And really the way that this works is it's like a bait It's like you're you're taking a baseline and so you're sitting there and you're watching the neighborhood You're watching to see you know what cars go in and out You're just being familiar with what's in your airspace and if something drastically different hops in your airspace You know that hey, maybe I should be suspicious of this and maybe I need to go check it out So these are just some sample values three ten again the united states zero two six is a tnt The unique id for the cell tower and the radio channel that it's on if any of those change or you know The tower goes completely away or a new tower comes up in its place with a really strong signal strength You know that it's something you should probably look at All right, so how So so let's let's just do a quick example of this If a new tower pops up with an unknown cell tower id and have high transmission power You know the mobile country code can mismatch the frequency can mismatch And you know, maybe the location area code could change too These are all things to keep in mind all things to look for they don't all need to change But a couple of changes here and there are enough to be suspicious of And so obviously why locate a tower? Well, you want to know if it's a cell tower or if it's a van with the tower inside of it And now now let's talk about actually locating them So i'm going to combine all of this unique cell tower data receive power and location And uh the easiest way that I found is to combine all of that information on one detector that can be moved around If you just have a couple of detectors spread out, you know, say throughout a neighborhood or something You're not going to get as great a data as if you can just move around because then you can take a bunch of different Points and we'll talk about that later on So this is an example heat map that I made and I this is just me driving around and I selected one tower And this is this is me practicing on an actual tower. This isn't a rogue cell tower This is just me driving around and seeing like hey, let's see if I can find uh what an actual tower is You know kind of as a blind test And so when I plotted up the data here, this is you know, you can see that red spot And that's where signal strength is highest and that comes down to probably about a 20 30 meter radius And that's enough to tell is there a tower poking up out of the ground? That's a couple hundred feet It's really easy to tell if there's nothing there if there is something there or maybe on top of a building There's some antennas. It's a good way of telling, you know Is that like shady or is that you know a van parked outside my street or some, you know hacker or kids sitting in the back of a car So multiple detectors with known locations allow for a trilateration of suspected, you know towers And they receive power in distance or they're not inversely proportional You'll need some regression formulas and they're required to calculate in order to fine tune the results It's less accurate, but it's still pretty good And the tdoa or time distance of arrival This is another way that I thought like hey, maybe I can find a cell tower this way But really I don't have an accurate enough time and if you're not familiar with what tdoa is It's a way to um, you know, you're waiting for a signal to come in and you're measuring the speed or the length of time that it takes Uh a light signal to come from that tower to wherever you are and measuring the time It's kind of like gps it works with you know the speed of light stays constant And so you can use that to kind of do some math, but you need a really accurate clock and that's not something that I have And so I thought okay, well that's not going to work All right, so now I'm going to talk about trilateration versus triangulation So a lot of people get mad at me when I inversely use these um I get it but some people don't and when I was doing this presentation before there's a lot of questions about it So I'm going to go over it real quick. Um, if this is something you already understand great You get a refresher and if you don't hopefully you know the difference All right, so again a good engineer. I have my north arrow for my free body diagram Uh and so let's let's picture that there's an explosion or a really loud sound The way triangulation works is if you're at home and if your friends at the store Maybe your wife's at work and you all hear the same big explosion You're all going to look in the same door or you're all going to look in the direction of the explosion And so if you were to intersect all the lines of where you guys are looking You're going to see pretty much a pretty good representation of where the explosion probably happened If you all call each other and say hey, I'm you know, I'm at home I'm looking you know towards the southeast and if I'm at the store I'm looking west and I'm at work looking north you can have a pretty good idea of kind of where it came from Um and so triangulation the angle there from the north arrow, you know to wherever direction you're looking That's the angle that you're actually talking about and a lot of people get that confused with what trilateration is And so with with triangulation you have your known points of where you are and you can use that to find You know the very center of that triangle So this is something that I've wanted to do. I've wanted to add this feature I didn't have enough time to do it before this but if somebody wants to help me work on it I'd love to take up any helpers So conceptually this makes sense But I haven't actually tried it out And so what I want to do is basically put like an rf shielded dome on top of my antenna and have it spin around And when it spins around at some point when it hits where when it lines up where the cell tower is It'll have a high signal strength. So right now if you see this Like this is a cross-section of it if the cell tower is right in line with where the slice is in it You'll have a high signal strength reading as this spins around And then you can tell right here the signal is being blocked because it's rf shielded And so you'll have a lower signal and so if you spin this all around and you have multiple detectors You have different angles and when all those angles intersect that's typically where it's going to be So this is all just conceptual. I haven't done this one. This isn't how I normally do it But it's it's something I just threw out there and so technically my detector uses trilateration And so this is kind of this is a good representation of what I mean by that So trilateration is just magnitude of what's being felt. So say you're 100 feet away from a cell tower You'll have full bars say you're 300 feet, you know, you maybe only have two bars a thousand feet It drops off to a single bar. So you know that you're a certain distance away based on your signal However, you don't know You know what direction that's coming in And so if you're 100 feet away that cell tower could be in a circle anywhere. That's 100 feet away from you And likewise, you know, if you have a weak signal strength, you know that Hey, you could be about a thousand feet away from that tower, but it could be anywhere on that big circle So how do you fix this? Well, you had more detectors and so say you have two detectors that are there You know, they have the same power strength Then you're gonna have two cell tower, you know, possibly two cell towers Where those two circles intersect and so how do you determine if it's, you know, only which one of those it is You had a third detector And then where all three of those circles intersect, that's where your cell tower most likely is or in and around that area But that's a way that you can, you know, get rid of just knowing the power level that it's at And so again, you do a lot of math There are plenty of python scripts plenty of bash scripts plenty of other ways that you can easily calculate this when you know Where you are and the magnitudes that you're feeling So that's one of those things if you don't know how to do it just google it. There's plenty of information out there So how do you actually locate that tower? Well power it's not it's not linear You'll need more data. You'll need more monitoring nodes and you'll need to do back of the envelope math So what I mean to say is that you're not going to directly find, you know, the Square, you know, one foot by one foot area where this tower is transmitting from but it's good enough to get you in the general vicinity of it And cell towers they also have different sectors. So they're not just a perfect omnidirectional antenna that radiates in all directions So that's why having multiple detectors helps you kind of work out the fuzzy math and help you actually find out where it is And so that's why I like the multi point trilateration So you get a lot of points you collect a lot of data and it gives you a lot more accurate results And so obviously I don't have a rogue cell tower that I can just test it with and I'm not going to make one have the FCC get mad at me So I tested this on just real towers and say hey, maybe this is a cell tower. You know, that's that's a rogue one Let's pretend like it's rogue and I want to go check it out So that's that's kind of just drove around town and saw what was out there Um, so yeah back to this slide again You can tell there's probably a tower in this area and sure enough far to show you the google maps of where this is There's absolutely a tower there All right, so let's talk about the actual build itself I used a raspberry pi 3 power adapter and a sd card running the stock raspy and all this stuff is really You know, there's plenty of guides on how to set this up. Then I bought a sim 900 gsm module It's all available on amazon. You can go there. It's like 17 dollars I'll post links to all this and stuff. You'll see later on There's a serial gps module again 16 dollars off amazon pretty cheap and then a software defined radio And now there's more cautionary tales about this, but I'll tell you about that going on And then it's also made of scrap wood and hot glue I was going to like 3d print some really nice case for this and then I figured I'll wear it a hacker conference And this is hacked together so I'm not going to make it any better because it definitely works So brace yourself. This is quite literally a hack If it shows up there we go All right, so let's let's talk let's break this down and actually see what's there Uh, okay, so on top you have the gps module because that extra, you know Seven inches really gives it the height that it needs to get a clear view of the sky The sim 900 cell module also goes up on top because hey you want the best reception possible Mind you this is in my passenger seat. So Then there's on both sides of this to connect the the bluetooth and the gps module together There's a serial to usb adapter there And so that that basically just gives you serial data And that's why I like using the raspberry pi because it gives you four usb's and so it's pretty easy To connect it all up and set it going so you don't have to burn your cpu on added gpi opens So again scrap wooden hot glue. That's pretty much what I always use And then there's a software to find radio. It's a usb tv tuner. It's called an rtl str We'll talk more about that So how much does it actually cost? Well, if you want to do this the raspberry pi zero and really keep costs down Raspberry pi zero is about ten dollars. So when you include shipping with it Five dollar wireless adapter off amazon, you know five dollar usb hub five dollar sd card You can shop around find all of this a lot cheaper or you know, you might just have it sitting somewhere in your bedroom And then the the real piece that you probably don't have lying around is the twenty seven dollar Sim 900 module and you can just buy this off amazon. It's you know, fcc regulated has all its fcc ids And then there's also the sixteen dollar serial gps module And if you want to get a little bit nicer one, I got the aid of room model It's about forty dollars, but it gets the job done a lot nicer. It's a lot quicker to fix positions So in total it's in total it's fifty two dollars And again, you can make it even cheaper than that depending where you source some of your materials from So let's talk about the sim 900 module So it will give you a whole list of commands and this is the typical modem at commands that I didn't know anything about And so I had to dig into And their their guide that they have online has a ton of different commands You can just read through it and one of the ones that I found is this engineering mode So when you toss the sim 900 and when you give it the at commands, which I'll go through in a little bit It'll show you hey, okay, it's good to go and it'll give you seven towers with the highest information And there's a ton of information. It's all via serial connection So if you know how to use serial it's all exactly the same and what's even better is there's no similar card required Just to put in engineering mode and I just also want to stress this that does not sniff any traffic This is fcc regulated. This is not doing anything bad. This is everything that your phone can see that you can see on your phone And I'll go over how you can actually see this on your phone to some degree not not nearly as good as this, but Let's move on So there's something called field test mode which most phones have If you have an iphone if you just pretend to dial a number and you put in star three zero zero one You know pound one two three four five pound star That'll bring in field test mode. I'm not I'm not trolling you that actually will do it And this is a good way to see a lot of information about what's around you Now it's a little bit hard to navigate and if you want you can google and there are plenty of guides that show You how to use this field test mode With android the it can vary from phone to phone. So just google it you can find it And there's also plenty of other apps since android is much more open that you can see So here's here's a quick example of what the sim 900 readout is so at to just check if it's okay And then that setting in engineering mode and then after that you check hey engineering mode You know what do you have for me and then it will relay a bunch of data and at first I looked at this And I was like I have absolutely no idea what this means. So let's let's dig into it And so basically you have your channel number your receive level you have your You have your base station identifier code your cell id your mcc and your mnc and your lack These are all things that we talked about Um and so for so this is the gps serial that I got this is a little bit nice The one that you can get online, but uh the the cheap one will definitely do this is the Adafruit model and it fixes the reason I picked it is because it fixes the position very quickly And it has great indoor reception and it works exactly like you would expect it to work Um it just you plug it in and it just starts dumping data And when I say dumping data This is exactly what I saw when I first plugged it in and this scrolls so fast that to take the screenshot It was hard not to get it to blur Um so you can get idea You know I looked at this like I don't even know what this means Luckily, you know, there's plenty of information online on how to handle this uh data And so you break it down you really only care about this type of a line And this line, you know when you translate it out and dump it in the sequel database that I have it set up To go into you get your latitude your longitude the number of satellites that you have the gps quality the altitude and the units of that altitude The gps quality two it goes zero one two zero is if you don't have a fix and it doesn't know where you are One if it's not that accurate, but it will still do and two if it's locked on and you have a good positioning Uh so next up is raspberry pi 3 pretty straightforward Runs stock raspbian as the operating system and it has the enough power to run the software defined radio So I use this uh raspberry pi to do other software defined radio stuff and it's set up to use it And so I just you know, I just repurposed I didn't want to have to get something else And it also has four usb ports Which is really nice because you can plug in as many serial adapters as you want with a hub And it works it works a lot better than trying to use any gpi opens as a serial adapter And it's also really easily powered by a usb battery pack You can get one of these battery packs online for like say five ten dollars And you could run it all day off of this because it's so low power So next I want to talk to you guys about the the I guess semi controversial part of this So there's the tv tuner So this is designed so you get a usb and you can Basically you plug this in and you can you know watch uh tv on your phone any of the broadcasts Or not tv on your phone tv on your laptop any of the broadcast channels that are out there It has a wide range of frequencies and it's typically used by a lot of hackers to do Really cheap software to find radio because it's twenty dollars However depending where you are this could be definitely against the law to listen to gsm traffic So I don't want to encourage this at all if this is not legal where you are But there are plenty of github repositories out there that'll let you listen into unencrypted traffic And and not to break it. We're not breaking any gsm traffic And it's not necessary at all to locating the towers. It just gives you some deeper insights If that's something that you're interested in Uh and trying out and if you do just let me know how it works. I'd be really interested in hearing it Um so basically everything dumps to a sqlite database It's pretty simple when you when you look at this because I just basically went through in the python script And it just goes through goes, you know every couple seconds and it'll snag all the data That's out there and it dumps it and it lets you do a lot of queries on it So, you know, you can you have your time of where you are your time where you are You have your latitude longitude, you know all the information that we just talked about all in one nice and neat place And uh, you know after you take a drive you don't want to have to go through and look through You know hundreds of thousands of lines of cell of cell data I mean it's going to suck and there's no way to really define anything meaningful out of that Um, so that's why uh you want to make it pretty you want to make it really easy to look at You want to make it so that you can show a picture to your wife, mom, cat and then you know say Hey this is what I did and they're like oh that's not just numbers on a screen Um and so uh when I was in civil engineering I used a ton of GIS software But it's really expensive and so that's when I came across QGIS It's completely free open source um and basically what this does is like kind of google maps You can place points and you can do math between those points um and it's it's a really extensive program So I could do a full talk on just how to use QGIS and all the stuff to learn But some of the things that you're going to want QGIS you're going to want IDW or inverse distance weighting you want the open layers plugin this will give you maps and GIS data And you also want uh or it also gives you Python command line automation And it's it's super easy once you visualize it and it and it lets you just you know Actually get your hands on the data and make sense of it Now what I really really like about this is that uh once you've done everything the right way Once you're comfortable with how to do this in the GUI It has a full command line set so you can know exactly what you're doing and then script it all up So you can just run a cron job and have it you know pump out nice looking images all the time Um and with that with the Python script then you can have it say hey you know this doesn't look right I want to send an alert out and we'll talk more about alerts here in a little bit But basically this is just a sample of like hey how am I going to import data and get the X Y and power information and stuff like that into it And so this is just a sample of just me just making some random points kind of uh In the program itself and you can see that you can overlay maps to it you can have street data You can even have satellite data um this is a great program if you're just looking for anything GIS related and you just want to get started in GIS because it's very similar to ARC GIS So if you're looking to get into maybe some professional tools check this out first It's good for a lot of other things not just finding rogue cell towers All right so the next part of this is okay so you detected that there's a disturbance in the force you see that okay my my maps are showing me that there might be a new tower somewhere you know I'm getting these notifications so what you know what the heck do you do how do you actually get this information to you you know so you're at the grocery store and you know that there's something outside or maybe there's you know a new cell tower popping up how do you know how do you get that information to yourself there's a couple of ways um so you can if depending on what your favorite scripting language is you can go in there and have it just send you a straight email a lot of people don't check their email you know very frequently so you maybe you want to have it set up with Twilio and have it send you a text message uh Twilio is about twenty dollars a year if you just want to send a couple text messages it's really great they have a great documentation I recommend using them and if you're a little bit more technical and you just want to send push notifications to your phone I use an app called uh push over and it allows you to send just like it says push notification that's really great gives you a ton of different settings so now here's the problem that I have uh when your detector goes off what the heck do you do um well you turn off your phone I mean if you're not really sure and you're actually nervous about your privacy being infringed upon just turn off your phone um that's that's really the only thing you can do uh and then you can start looking at the data you can take what I you know the maps that I've shown you how to make and you can look at it and say uh where is this let's go take a look at it and then maybe you go on a road trip and with this you can just go out there and you can um you know you can you can go see hey is there anything out there uh am I nervous you know that something's you know gonna be where it's not shouldn't be or you could just say hey it looks like they're doing some maintenance on the tower somewhere um so this allows you the opportunity to go drive around and see what's actually out there and with that I think that's it um if you guys want just send me an email to this email address and I'll answer any questions and I'll I'll be posting the slides by Friday uh to this website ragingsecurity.ninja so feel free to go check it out and yeah I really encourage you guys to shoot me an