 Live from Las Vegas, Nevada, it's theCUBE. Covering Knowledge 15, brought to you by ServiceNow. Okay, welcome back everyone. You are watching SiliconANGLE, Wikibon's theCUBE, our flagship program. We go out to the events, next week at SiliconANGLE, I'm John Furrier, founder of SiliconANGLE, I'm my co-host Dave Vellante, co-founder of wikibon.com. Our next guest is Sri Shandra Shaker, VP and general manager of the ITOM, ITOM business unit service now, welcome to theCUBE. Thank you so much, John. So IT operations management, this is the new buzzword, really developing its own, its own quadrant, if you will, in the marketplace. It's got its own segment, it's growing fast, gives the update IT service management, ITSM, ITOM, ITOM, just quickly describe the differences because the operations management piece is getting a lot of traction because it's really the market's growing. Absolutely, IT operations management has been growing a lot, overall it's about a $28 billion market and it includes everything from mainframe management, network management, log management and all. We are focusing on the areas like cloud management, configuration management, services life cycle management. Provisioning orchestration. All of that is included pretty much. Cloud management takes care of provisioning, configuration management takes care of configuring your applications using Puppet or Chef. Services life cycle management takes care of deploying your applications into the cloud, releasing it and testing it, all of that. So Pat Gelsinger had an announcement this week at VMware, native cloud apps, VMware's big push. And the notion is containers are hot. What's your take on all this? I mean, native cloud is the trend. You guys now have new stuff here in the platform. Is this what we're talking about in the off side for cloud or? At the end of the day, operations management supports containers very much by nature. For us, it's a black box, meaning there are applications that are built using containers. There are applications that are built outside of containers. Both of those have to be developed, built, deployed, managed, monitored, remediated. So all of that is possible. So from an operations management perspective, yes, containers are hot, absolutely. And we do support containers. It's a black box for us at the end of the day. So we were talking off camera about sort of the market segmentation, how different people look at it. Gartner might have their way, IDC might have their way. How do you look at IT operations management and its relationship to IT service management? Fantastic question. At the end of the day, a workflow doesn't stop at people and processes within an enterprise. It goes beyond that into their infrastructure. That's the whole idea of taking service management, which is about change incident problem, service catalog and so on. And when you start talking about infrastructure, almost all enterprises have part of their infrastructure in their private cloud, part of their infrastructure in their public cloud. Many things happen. What devices are in your infrastructure? What software is installed on those devices? What services are running in your infrastructure? How do you monitor them? How do you bring that data back into your CMDB? And once you bring that data back, at the end of the day, Alan was talking about earlier, I'm patching a particular server. So you create a change record for that. All of that. So service management, you use incident problem change, service catalog and many other technologies. And operations management is about connecting the infrastructure to the services side, whether it is monitoring and bringing the data back or discovering and bringing the information back and reasoning over that data and instituting change back into the infrastructure. So what does that mean? That means we use all the data that we have collected and all the service management information that we have in our cloud and do informed change back using orchestration automation at the end of the day. Okay, and you have a separate business unit. Yes. You run, that's focused on ITOM. Why the separate business unit? Obviously you feel as it's distinct enough, is it different set of practitioners? Is it different technology infrastructure? Maybe we could talk about that a little bit. Absolutely. It is a different business unit for two reasons. One is the audience that we go after for service management and the audience we go after for operations management. Some of them are similar. Like how do you run your operations? Like what dashboards do I see on a daily basis? How do I know what services are up, what services are down? All of that. There are other set of audiences like VP of development, VP of applications engineering. All of those folks who build applications and who deploy applications, who provision applications in the cloud, IT departments need to support them. They are sister teams. So one is a VP of operations, the other is VP of applications development. VP of application development will be saying, I want these applications provisioned in my cloud. Make it easy for me. VP of operations is making it simple and providing a single button click like a service catalog where you can go provision, configure all of that and give it back to them so that that's how there is some commonality and there is some differences. So we are going after additional sister organizations within an enterprise and selling to those. And the head of application development might say, and I want my app provisioned on the fastest portion of the tier one version of the government, a process to determine and to judicate whether or not that happens. Because everybody always wants the gold. Exactly. And you can determine at the end of the day as an IT department, what kind of service catalog do I build and what kind of applications can be made available through that service catalog as well as who can provision them. For example, if there is a development team that needs the highest end hardware, you can say, okay, John or David can actually provision such things and that's awesome. And somebody else might say, I'm building a test application, I really don't need the top end hardware, I need this kind of hardware and it can only run in the middle of the night because when cost is cheap, like spot pricing at Amazon for example. So when you need that, then you can say, okay, this is a job that I don't need to run peak time. Just run it at low time. So that's a lot of flexibility. Big time. Lots of flexibility that can be provided by IT administrators, IT departments to their application developers using cloud management and service management. Street, we got some questions from the people in the crowd chat. So join the conversation if you're watching, go to crowdchat.net slash no 15. A lot of action going on around ITOM, ITOM called ITOM. Last night you guys had a packed house at the SIG session interest group 21 hours ago. About 260 people showed up. It was fantastic, full house, standing room only. Full house and so some commentary coming around that. Also there's a question in the social web watching. How does ITOM drive everything as a service? Could you explain that please? Absolutely, one of the ways in which we are looking at operations management differently than other companies is looking at operations management from a service oriented perspective. We built the CMDB in such a way that it's not, operations management, not just about the infrastructure, it's about a service. Typically you don't care about a server going down in a data center, you care about what services did it bring down? Did my payroll service come down or did the kube.com come down? That's what you care about, not a particular server. So what we are trying to do is to build. You're separating out the functionality of the app from the myriad of services and gear, whatever under the covers. Exactly, we are looking at it from a services perspective so that you can create a service, provision a service, configure a service, deploy a service, manage, monitor, remediate. That's orchestration. Orchestration is very much a foundational element of ITOM. We build the technology, we automate pretty much everything in our own world using that. So if I'm an end user, I'm a customer, I say okay, this actually helps me with all the human errors, right? Because isn't human errors a big part? Human errors is indeed. Because you're talking about configuring an unplugged server. We've had the kube go down because someone redefined the shutdown of the port. It's got to be one of the top culprits. Culprits are the vulnerability part. It is one of the top culprits. Almost all enterprises have planned changes and unplanned changes. Planned changes are, I thought about it, I know what I want to do. Unplanned changes are somebody kicked the cable or somebody accidentally shut down the wrong server. All of those things. And you need to reduce the unplanned changes a whole lot. And how can you give visibility to enterprises so that between day one and day 10, here were the planned changes that were happened and here are the unplanned changes that happened. We can easily do that through service watch and you can map the business service and you can do service drift. Meaning on day one, I'll map the service it looked like this. On day 10, I map the service it looked like this. Meaning additional nodes were added, some nodes were removed, some nodes were updated, all of that is fine. And by the way, I also noticed that 10 changes happened. Of which I can easily see that six of those are planned because I find the change records for those in my CMDB. The remaining four, I know it's changed but I don't see any change records. Somebody did it accidentally or unintentionally and it probably brought down the service reduced the SLA for the service. Well, it's interesting to know when T.M. McGee this morning talking about the availability statistics and how service now minimizes unplanned downtime. Presumably there's a relationship between exactly the IT, the ITOM piece. Very much. One of the things that we did was to acquire this technology called service watch last summer. I personally led that acquisition. The important thing about that is not only do I know what server or what network it was brought down at any point in time, where is it connected to? Which business services does it support? That's the most important thing. Once you know that, you can say, oh, this server went down. It is bringing down my payroll service or it's bringing down my e-commerce website. Let's talk about relevance. Why this is relevant? So Dave and I always talk about Amazon and it's been talked about here. They just released their earnings. They did $1.5 billion this quarter. They just broke out the numbers, Dave. First time ever. $265 million in profit. $1.5 billion in this quarter. First quarter. In AWS. In AWS. And they're profitable. Oh, what have I been saying for how long? I know that's why I brought it up to get vindicated. No, I want to share the numbers. They're on track to be $6 billion per year. I think it's going to be more like $10. I bring this up not because we want to dance over service now, but because your show is so big, you are Amazon for IT and now other solutions in my mind is what we've been talking about. So this makes the ITOM conversation significant. Absolutely. It is very significant. We today, we make roughly about net new revenue, about 10% of our revenue overall. Largest, second largest business at service now. The growth last two years has been 300%, 300%. Whatever we made in 2012 tripled that in 2013. Whatever we made in 2013 tripled that again. It speaks with the customers are doing. Exactly. We are growing at three X last two years and we continue to grow. It's an important part of what our customers are trying to do, automating through orchestration. It's coming. Exactly. Look at a couple of customers. I mean, I visited about 75 to 80 customers in the last three months. Almost all of them have six or eight or 10% or 15% some of them in the public cloud, their workloads. When I asked them how much do you want to move to from there, they're saying 60, 70, 80% of my workloads in about three to four years. I want to be in the public cloud so that I don't have to worry about managing my own private cloud so much. I don't need to worry about buying my own hardware, getting my own network engineers to set that up, systems engineer to configure them appropriately. Instead of that, I'm moving some of my workloads and that is huge. How can we help them make that happen? How can we easily make that journey happen in such a nice way that it's painless? Reliable, agile, flexible. I mean, you guys are doing, and the plumbing needs to get built under the covers. You kind of wire it together behind the curtain. Okay, I get that. Maybe you can fill in the white spaces, but it shows the moment of the market. The market is clear. Customers are going to the cloud. And you guys have this new model. It's Amazon-like. They land and expand, core base. So developers, what does it mean for the developer? Oh, lots of things. Again, Alan covered some wonderful things just before me. So for developers, what it means is, look, think about it this way. I have an application that you mentioned earlier, which is a cube application. Let's say it has 18 features today. It's running perfect and it's in production. I want to add two more features. You're not going to actually go and touch your production instance and change that right away. What you need is a dev instance. So what you do to do that, you need to understand how is my application now so we can map that application, understand what the topology looks like, what the configuration looks like, and create a copy of it, whether it's in Amazon, Azure, VMware, wherever. And give you and hydrate that with the test data or real data, whatever data you want. And then application developers can develop on it, mature the features, get it tested, get it ready, and then say, now I'm ready to bring it back into production. So we are... We've got to get you hooked up with Steve Chambers, our cloud analyst, because I think this is probably one of the most really, really important points in cloud. And it's not talked of, it's not sexy headline, new Amazon gets the front of HR, all these apps. But under the covers, that's the DevOps innovation that you guys are abstracting away from the developers. Exactly, because we don't want developers to worry about what it means to go provision an individual virtual machine or configure it or connect all the database layer to the application layer and all. Because if application is already developed, take it, clone it, make it easy for them. And again, the same thing can be extended to moving when customers say, I want to move to public cloud, my workloads, take it, map it, build the service model, build a copy of it, hydrate it from this original... I got to ask you a question. Do you feel like sometimes you're chasing your tail because you guys are moving so fast as a company? I mean, Fred, let's put a lot of pressure on you. Oh, Shree, great job. You're done, no, no. We just instant presence in real time. Absolutely agree with you. So tell us what the impact of that means. When I joined service now, about three and a half years ago, we were 375 people. It's 3,100 people now. Look at the pace at which we have grown. Again, we acquire customers at an amazing rate, like 690 customers last year alone. And about 460 of those went live last year alone. So the pace at which things are moving is really, really fast. But what... Well, adoption from customers is only one dimension. You've got technology. Exception. Technology and adoption. And we are actually making a huge difference. As Frank said at the keynote on Tuesday, at the 25% of our customers are using service now to do things outside of IT. That is a phenomenal mind blowing number. So we are not only... It means the next Amazon. Let me just translate that to the market. They're the next Amazon for applications. That would be a great place to... That's a big bold prediction. Hey, if you can do, you know, billion a quarter, I think, you know, on pace, what is most Frank's numbers? Four billion? Four billion by 2020. That's the idea. I mean, service now will be a billion dollar company soon here. Yeah. And there's 600 plus now. Hopefully. I think you're going to hit it this year. But there are some things you got to take care of with API economy, the security thing. You got the ITOM work you're doing. What else is on the top priority list than conversations you're having? For us, at the end of the day, we want to make sure that customers realize what their services are and how it maps to their infrastructure. How to help increase their service health, improve their service availability and reduce the mean time to resolution and TTR. And we want to help customers move their workloads to the cloud in a very seamless, easy way. Through cloud management, through migrations, through moving, through cloning. All the technology we have developed internally for our own use anyway. You must have heard about 40,000 instances were provisioned of service now for labs in the last three days so that customers can actually look at their sessions and play with service now instances. It gets spun off 15 minutes before the instant, before the lab. It's a total service now geek party. I mean, really. Exactly. Conference, I have a beer. One person did it. I only have one beer, I'm going to hit my instance. One person did it, and the whole thing. 40,000 instances. 40,000 instances in three days, spun up and spun down 15 minutes before the session starts and 15 minutes after the session ends. Yeah, and then the beach party. And then the puff. Now you guys really have a formula right now that I think is unique and I think the technology's wind is at your back and I think the IT center point of innovation is a very valuable world. How do you protect that? I mean, obviously you have to put protection mechanisms in and as you go outside of IT, I mean, you're not going out on a direct or frontal basis to compete against Salesforce, but you are indirectly. I mean, it's like saying football competes with baseball but they're different sports. I mean, but then the mind share of the user is still there, right? You're encroaching on adjacent verticals. Absolutely. But the core of IT, how do you protect the IT kingdom? Very simply put in three different ways. First of all, Fred, when he founded the company, ensured that we build a single platform, single data model, single system of record upon which all applications are built and leveraged. And we adhere to that with an insane passion. Even when we acquire companies, whether it's Nebula or Mirror 42, when we bring that into service now, we want to make sure that it adheres to the same formula. So new applications that get built are built so that it all uses the same data model, same single system of record, same database, same glide platform. So that ensures extensibility. Extensibility, and no, more than that, it ensures that it is better together. We, the same server that you discovered, the same server upon which you created a change record, same server that you mapped to a business service is all in the one record in that CMDB is used. So it's beautiful, that's one. We are not going to go away from it. That's, most of our competitors do not do that. They have multiple databases that has to be synchronized and duct taped. We don't have to worry about that. That's a lot of overheads and moving parts. Exactly, that's the first one. The second one is when we design and build applications, we make sure that one takes advantage of the other very much. Like, for example, when an event management system was built, it collects monitoring data, correlates them to a right CI after due duplication, and then says, what do you want to do? Now that you have the alert, oh, I want to create an incident off of it. Oh, I want to notify David about it. I want to send a log to somebody else over email. Perfect. And guess what? I can also trigger a business tool to remediate it automatically. And then inform the service owner that the service was taken care of. Don't worry about it. So you saw change, incident, orchestration, automation, and the capability within the platform to trigger business rules all leveraged in context of event management, which is part of operations management. Likewise, when you talked earlier about cloud management, we provisioned total applications or whole stacks of services using a simple service catalog that is given to application developers. There is service management, service catalog coming into play. And let's say you can only instantiate 10 of those. The 11th one you try to instantiate, it can go to approval for your manager. So look at it, service management coming into play very well. So all of those things are taken advantage of as we build, so that better together is... It's like Amazon integrated stack, but horizontally a platform. It's very, very important. We're getting the hook here, but I got to ask you one question because you're so awesome with the knowledge. Thanks for sharing your knowledge. What's the microservices trend? We're hearing that all. Pivotal guys are talking about EMC, VMware, microservices. What the hell does that mean? Little services, part of applications. They kind of talk about it as part of cloud native apps. It's a new spin on what was originally called service-oriented architecture where you build. No, it is because at the end of the day, service-oriented architecture is all about building services in such a way that they hook like Lego blocks. They have clear interfaces that one service understands with each other. And they're reusable. Reusable. Microservices are a newer take on that where services can be as small as is possible and as portable as is possible. They're redefining SOA to ride the Docker wave. Very much, very much. And sorry, the third thing that I was trying to say earlier was I mentioned two things, single platform, better together. Enterprise cloud, Dan McGee talked about it in our keynote today. Nobody offers the kind of enterprise cloud that we do because of which those are the three advantages. And we adhere to that and make sure that whatever we do, we don't give those three things up. That's sacred ground. To compromise and build something where. You don't go off the reservation. Exactly. And thanks to our leadership team, they don't let us go off the reservation. They protect it. It's important. It's very, very important. Between Fred, Dan, and Fred, I mean. They are unrightfully so because that's what has made us grow this fast and this nicely. So why not continue with that? Yeah, you got more. There's nothing wrong with that approach. It's working. It's working. It's what's not broken. That's what I always say. Sri, thanks for coming on theCUBE. Really appreciate it. Congratulations on your growth of your business unit. Thank you. And again, packed out at the SIG last night. And obviously it's everything is a service you're a key enabler. This is theCUBE, enabling more data, sharing that with you here at $15. Share the knowledge live in Las Vegas. I'm John Roy DeFelante. We'll be right back with more after the short break.