 All right, oh, we're already recording. Hi there. Welcome to this week's iSchool Career Services podcast with your two favorite hosts with the most in the world, Jeffrey Fouts and Christopher Pirello. We're coming at you from our private abodes as we continue to work remotely thanks to COVID-19. This week we are focusing on two areas that we've been receiving a lot of questions about this the last week or so. And the first topic that we want to address is the past fail option for students. This mainly affects only undergraduates but some grad students may be impacted as well that I'm unaware of or unsure of. And so typically, Jeff, we would like to tell our students how to handle this past fail situation because some of them are really nervous about how the P and F may look on their transcripts as they are applying to companies who will be looking at their GPA or looking at their transcripts. So what kind of advice do you suggest for students who are nervous about getting the, hopefully the pass, right? We don't want them failing anything but students who take the option and receive a pass option instead of an actual letter grade. Yeah, so first of all, I'm really glad that this is a, I'm really glad that we're talking about this today because I think it is a hot topic and not only for Syracuse University but for universities in general. And one of the first things that I'll say is past fail is becoming more and more popular with higher education in general. So it's not just Syracuse University that's doing pass fail. A lot of colleges are doing pass fail. And if you do any research out there, you're going to see just the number of how many colleges have decided to go along with this new policy of being able to basically make any class that you want a pass fail option. So how does that look on your transcripts and how does that look to a potential employer? So here's the thing, in normal situation in normal circumstances, I think a pass fail option if you have one would be fine. But if you have multiple pass fail options, I think you're going to have a lot of explaining to do as to why you are decided to do pass fail instead of get a letter grade. Because we're in the situation that we're in with COVID-19 and the pandemic and because so many colleges have adapted this policy, I think employers are going to see more and more of this option or in more and more of this show up on transcripts that students are sending in. And I think that because of the situation that we're in, I don't think employers are going to wait it as much as they would in the past. So it's not going to be as big a deal to have pass fail on your transcripts for spring 2020 as it would if we were not in the situation that we're in now. Very good, yeah, I agree with you. And I think too, part of what you're saying is that we're really happy that Syracuse University and other institutions for higher ed are implementing this policy because the transition from the physical classroom immediately to the remote online setting is not a very easy transition for a lot of students. Even us instructors have a hard time transitioning from the physical classroom in the very middle of the semester to now posting everything online, doing Zoom, Blackboard Collaborate, or asynchronously. So I'm hopeful that employers will be empathetic to this policy effect and that our students realize that look, if the pass fail option is better for you in a particular course or a class or for whatever classes you're taking, then go ahead and accept that option because we wouldn't be offering that as a legitimate way to accommodate learning and the way you're evaluated in a class if it didn't seem okay to employers during the hiring process. Yeah, and I like what you just said. I would absolutely encourage anyone who feels like a pass fail option is a good option for them to go ahead and do that. And I wouldn't feel bad about it and I wouldn't feel like it's gonna hurt me in any way whatsoever, as far as my getting a job or an internship goes. But absolutely not, in the situation that we're in now, I would absolutely encourage you, if you feel like a pass fail option is a better option for you for an online environment, then absolutely do that. And just like you said, the resources that you have are different online. You don't have the library, you don't have the support system that you're used to, you don't have the face-to-face with your instructors or your career services team that you're used to. So by all means, I mean, if you need to do pass fail, I'm gonna encourage you to do that. Just try not to fail. The F may not look good. Right, well, and I guess we should say too that, if you pass, it doesn't affect your GPA. But if you fail, it does affect your GPA. So you still wanna pass. Yeah. Good, awesome, great responses. All right, now let's transition to a heftier topic that may need a little bit more analysis and explanation. So the question is, Jeff, students who have been in the process of being recruited to a company or in the application process to a particular company, and that company has put a freeze on hiring. What strategies can our students do to try and cope with the sudden hiring freeze of a lot of company and industry partners due to the nature of COVID-19? What kind of strategies can our students do to overcome this? So Christopher, you and I were just talking about this before this podcast and I'm actually going to throw it back to you first because the things that you said in our discussion, I think are very relevant and will spur a lot of discussion. So I'm gonna let you start with that question. Well, thank you, my man, Jeff. So one of the main things that I know this is kind of broad, but we gotta be flexible. You know, a lot of the students that I've been meeting with this week, the last two weeks, they were so laser focused on a particular industry or a particular type of company. You know, I think the popular one that I've been working with graduating seniors right now is the sports industry. And so look, the sports industry traditionally and typically in the springtime is a hiring, you know, is great with hiring. They hire a lot of our students in all across different majors, but right now sports are not happening. And so a lot of my students are, they're nervous about this idea of being flexible. But so I think the first step is realizing that we need to be flexible. And as someone who's looking for an internship or a job, try to think of those industries or those companies that you know for a fact are hiring today. And so if we think about the industries that are being positively affected by what's going on right now in the world, technology, technical companies, software companies, educational companies, online platforms and those types of companies are the ones that maybe we wanna shift from, oh, I really wanted to work at the New York Yankees or NFL or NHL and try to think of that you could be doing similar roles, whether they're technical or more people related and focusing on these companies that have more of a hiring need right now. So I posted a bunch of companies on LinkedIn tend to be exact for today who are hiring our students in big numbers or who want to hire our students. And so I'm thinking companies like Cisco, Intel, Epic, Netflix. I mean, come on, how many people are watching Netflix? The Tiger King, by the way, highly recommended. Haven't gotten to Ozark yet. I can't get into it. Ozark is good. It's so, it's ridiculous. Anheuser-Busch, I mean, think about it, people are home, they're probably consuming more adult beverages at this time. Anheuser-Busch, you're a funny one. Jokester, Pearson, Cengage, Blackboard, all these companies, they need to hire our students with their skills. And so let's try to reframe this and think like everything happens for a reason. So if you were in the process of being hired at NASCAR to be a client support specialist or a data analyst, you could do those same roles at a company like Cisco or Epic or Samsung or Netflix. Right, right. And I really like that advice. And I think that advice is so key to be, once again, because of the situation that we're in, we have no choice but to be flexible in the type of industry that we want to work in. We are at a huge advantage over others just because of the industry that we're in. And there is no company out there that doesn't need IT support in some form or another. So yeah, we get it that you want to be, work for in some kind of sports or media type industry. Yeah, that's great. And we really want to encourage you to continue to look for that. But look, there's just not a lot of jobs out there right now in that type of industry. So now you need to do some soul searching and you have plenty of time to do this. Like really think about what type of industry, have a contingency plan, what type of industry was your second choice or your third choice that you can start looking into as a possible way of getting a job or an internship. You have to remember that your first job is not your last job. So even if you start in an industry that you're not happy or comfortable with, start working. And then when things start picking up in the industry, start looking for the type of industry that you're interested in. But in the meantime, you're gaining so much valuable experience actually working that's going to help you anyway in the long run, getting eventually into the industry that you want. And you never know, you may wind up loving the situation that you found yourself in. So don't automatically discount an opportunity just because it's not in the industry that you think you don't want to work in. Bravo. Yeah. I think too that this gives students an opportunity to reframe the way they're networking on LinkedIn, right? If the student that I met with this week was so focused on the sports industry and was really only networking on LinkedIn with alumni in the sports industry, well, this is your opportunity now to start making those new connections and start cultivating those professional relationships in a way that can get your foot in the door in other industries. We've got tons of alumni at Cisco, at Samsung, at Epic. And so if you are looking on LinkedIn to make these new connections, it's gonna hopefully give you some more confidence and some encouraging relationship building online. Well, absolutely, 110% and I love that because of how large our alum association is, right? I mean, we have alum everywhere. The other thing that I would say is focus on the requirements of the job or the internship, not on the industry that the job is in and see if the requirements is something that you think you might be confident in doing or happy with doing. That's what should drive you to applying for the job, not just because it's for ESPN or for the NICs. Yes, yeah, oh, really good point. And I think too, one other thing you just sparked in my mind was don't be deceived by the title of the job or internship you're applying to, right? We've had this discussion with a lot of our especially grad students who they may see an internship or a job that's a software engineer. And they're like, oh, that's not for me too technical or not my area of interest, not my expertise. And then you look at the job requirements or internship requirements and it's legit for an high school related undergrad or grad student. And so I think in our industry, high schools in this sort of weird position where we don't always fit neatly into these little job titles or job role categories. And so it's okay, like I want you to look beyond the job title or the internship role. I want you to look at the actual requirements. And so thank you for mentioning that. You don't fall in love with the industry and you don't fall in love necessarily with the job. It's what you're actually performing the tasks that you're performing that's making you happy as a professional. Very true. I mean, look, if you're gonna focus on the industry or the job title, you're gonna be in that job for a very short period of time. You really need to find something that's going to meet the needs of what you're looking for from an organization. And the easiest way to do that, and we talk to students all the time about this, is the companies are giving you the roadmap and they're giving you the roadmap through the requirements of the job. So use that roadmap. They spend a lot of time developing those things. They have meeting after meeting to make sure that what they're listing are actual things that they're looking for. So use that to your advantage and figure out, is this something that I can see myself doing for a year, two years down the road that's going to either make me a better candidate later on or going to fulfill a need that I have of being happy in a job that I'm gonna be working at. Very good point. Yeah. Yeah, my only last tip kind of sort of concluding with this podcast is that I've noticed a lot of the anxiety being reflected on social media right now. It's not just Facebook and Instagram and whatever other Twitter platforms you're on, but LinkedIn professionally is really making people anxious and I get kind of annoyed and I'm gonna be honest when I see people complaining on LinkedIn about losing their positions or internships or whatever. And look, I understand, but you're just spreading that anxiety all over the place. And so I'm gonna say this, and I've said it before to students is worry about yourself. Don't stress about, oh, my colleague and another, oh my God, all these people are losing their jobs and getting internships rescinded. Worry and focus about yourself when it comes to the professional movement you're making because if you're only on LinkedIn, you're only paying attention to those posts. And believe me, I feel bad for those people, but that's all you're getting are people feeling bad for you and you really want people stop comparing. You said it. I should have had you take this last word of wisdom. No, no, absolutely, man. Perhaps 110%, yeah. So, yeah, Jeff, did you have any last words of wisdoms other than stop comparing, bye. All I'm gonna say is you and I are sending out daily opportunities that are out there. So keep checking your emails. Keep fighting the good fight. Keep sticking with the script. It does work. Keep working on your resume and your cover letter and your LinkedIn and your networking. The process works. There are companies that are hiring, as Christopher had mentioned earlier in the podcast. Rewind the podcast or move the podcast back so you can refresh your memory on what he said, but they're there. So stop focusing on the industry and focus on the job. And I think you're gonna have a much more opportunity. True words of wisdom from Mr. Jeffrey L. Vowx. You got it. Yes, good job. All right, so listen, thank you very much, Jeff. We're gonna be coming at you every Tuesday. I think the game plan is to upload this onto YouTube and make it available. Absolutely. All right, hey, Jeff, have a great day. You do the same. Thank you.