 It's not basically just a good idea to have some kind of discussion about what's going on. So, in that way, I'm going to be asking people to come up with some good ideas for the desktop as far as all this stuff. Also, I hope to have in that way more... Did you start already? Yeah, more or less. No, I didn't. Okay, well, do you want me to start over? Well, packages in Devian actually do support M&S, so unfortunately, I can't look at the list. Can you just third that? Yeah, the problem is that there's a lot of stuff that has, first of all, different degrees. Yeah. So, but we're still, I think, down with the Internet, I think, down with you, if there's a nice opportunity to actually look at the actual local network here using M&S. Yeah, well, my biggest problem with all the silicone stuff is that it can start normal, okay, and you have kids pulled in and suddenly you have a service running on your machine. You have a barbie. Pardon? You have a barbie running. Yeah. Yeah. Basically, I'm not sure many are aware of this, so if you install the laptop with your notebook on it... Yeah. Yeah. You use the wireless as an app or whatever. Yeah. Right. Brouch reviews occur. Yeah. There are different services for there one for this one and one for the full service. Do you guys pull the full one? Yeah, there's a barbie. Yeah, there's a barbie on M&S. Right. I believe a barbie has just a list on the list. Yeah, I think it does have a list on the mobile. It definitely defaults to broadcast. Oh. I think... Basically, what I'd like to see is something that would be something that starts off an user that wants to use KDE of note. Use that desktop and that buys when it uses lots of. Yeah. Wouldn't that be a problem with the barbie running on zero point? Yes, it would be a problem. But nevertheless, well, personally I use Ion. I don't need a zero point. And all of this at all. But even if you have KDE installed still. Yeah. Because there might be other persons using my computer. Yeah. And, well, I don't feel that confident. Yeah. Sure. But I think it's possible to do that. I've been thinking for a long, long, long time. We should have installed ID cards. We tried to find a way so that we can install KDE without pulling in a barbie at all. And then if people want to use that, they have to actually turn it on by installing it. There's just so many things to handle in it. It's just that it enjoys it. Yeah. It should definitely be optional. At any time, I think it's good to make people not have to think to a thought. For example, the KDE meta package should still pull it in. But it should definitely be possible to install parts of KDE without it. You know, it could be like a sub package that doesn't include it plus stuff. It doesn't include it into the KDE meta package. It should be possible to go all the way to the people who don't have to know about it to put it together. I just think that the overall design is pretty good. Because basically, for it to work, the user relies on system service to run. And Kevin starts the system service himself. On the other hand, this is a choice that must be made by the scissor for its users. Or the user's usual. No, that's what they need. Right. But, I mean, the shade is doing the stuff on users as well. Also, those users may, if they're doing their job properly, will be talking to the users or whoever decided they need. And if the scissor is not doing his job properly, then there are bigger problems. Although, I'm listening to the master switch. I mean, I could even look with the serial company installed. If there's a system trade item that tells me system calls. The serial company is currently active. Or is currently inactive. In my opinion, default to inactive. If the user starts up an MVNS browser with pop up a window, MVNS is currently inactive. You don't want to do that. See, this sounds like an Windows What's-No version. Yeah, it sounds like you want to put an easy connection to the supposed onboard AD. Yes, I'm using a computer. Yeah, the point is we're trying to do it on Windows. We're trying to do it on Windows. Yeah, we're trying to do it as well as we can. We'll do some control. Yeah, but we're welcome. Let's try it once more. Interesting. Yeah, I think we have a lot of control over our computers in terms of some defaults. A lot of decisions have been made for us already. For example, if I choose it, a lot of people have complained about it. It's very similar up to the point where you cannot even enter a file name anymore. Because you could just click on the file. But sometimes you don't want to click on a file because typing is faster. Yeah, a lot of decisions are made for us. And I would like to go back into the other direction. The GNOME function makes it harder to do certain things. It removes functionality. The GNOME function doesn't remove functionality. It makes finding other services quicker but doesn't start making your computer serve services that it isn't serving. I don't think about it by default. It advertises that it serves all your own machine. I think it does. It exports some part of the bus that sits in my computer. But it doesn't open it. If you're not running any services, it doesn't advertise them. I think it would be good to make sure that it's configurable as to what it advertises or to disable if you want. I think it would be good to disable it and disable it to use some kind of eBus like that. So you can actually just have it open as retell it to turn itself off. It already uses all that stuff so maybe it wouldn't be too much of a leak. In the typical laptop setup, you have a hopkey. On most laptops, you have a hopkey to any GNOME desktop environment. Why wouldn't we have a hopkey? At least the system would be able to disable zero. It seems reasonable. I don't think it would be on or off. Yeah, but it is an additional service. And as a part of this service, you might not even know if you're running an NDP that it should not wait. Well, that applies to so many NDPs in Demian. That's hard to make NDPs in Demian. You know, Demian doesn't buy a notification that there's an upgrade available unless you sync it. Yeah, but that would be good to fix the internet. Yeah, but if you read it, maybe, and then wisely, that some block has been thrown from the body. Would it? And well, I don't know what this is. A lot of people are using a walkie-talkie. A lot of people are using a walkie-talkie. A lot of people are using a walkie-talkie. Yeah, I mean, if you're running stable, you should be getting security advisories anyway. And acting on them, if you're running testing on a stable, you should be capable of updating every now and then. That argument could be not applied to any service whatsoever. Yeah. I know you're asking questions whether all this is going to turn into something that's just as common expected to have on the network. I mean, if people are going to expect it at that level in a couple of years, then worrying about another service running is just as effective as worrying that your computer does SNS lookups when you click on a URL. I mean, you see what I'm getting at? There's potential security goals in every DNS query that you do. The biggest problem with making up by default is that it's not zero-confident anymore. You have to account for it to work. You might get super Amazon making won't-it-confident stuff. Well, it happens to a separate issue, but even if they don't make one with the default, it's better to do content than it's credit card. It's making your credit card a service, basically, or sort of. But this is not too many of the source. Yeah. Well, the big problem I see is that the service runs in the system context. And we'd like to see it in the user context. Pardon? You know, when the implementations are run in the user context. Yeah. Also, what would happen if multiple users were simultaneously logged in in a desktop environment, if they had multiple terminals? Would it have two copies running? Of the kinds, perhaps? No, I mean, of the zero-confident service advertising. Yeah. What? Yeah, the advertising demon is the problem. Yeah, and also, if you wanted to be able to kind of think of an SSH, that should be through even when... Yeah, sure. Advertisements are a system thing. But as far as the architecture, everything is done in the same thing, in the same big demon. No clients are... The DNS... Look up to the... The actual service discovery is, I believe, all run by a body. Yeah, because if it ran like this, we could easily drop the dependence or whatever on the demon to recommence or even suggest. Right. Because most people who install desktop boxes are not running any services on their desktop boxes. So they don't need to advertise that they are not running any services. Well, actually, there's all the... I think it's... That's certainly not the case on systems like MacOS 10, where... How about Trinner or Music? Trinner or Music, or iTag, or even K-Battleship, I'm not kidding. Or even, you know, LeatherTex, etc. Yeah, but as this stuff... I've seen... And it was a share of our MacOS 10 program, and have you seen some of the edit? No. It's a collaborative text editor, so it allows people to connect to each other. I'm assuming it's very similar to this, which is called the... I don't know about you, but I don't think it doesn't look like that. Oh, yeah. I mean, you can chat with LeatherTex quite quickly. Yeah. But not about chat, but... Like, you can actually see what you can get from MacOS 10. Yeah. Yeah. And it... You can find it on the VZ or something to get it there. Or by telling you where to find it. Yeah. I think... Ben, do you think you can install some small people with that? It's five services. That's... I don't... I don't... That requires a lot more... If it's done right, it might be feasible for the... Non-expertisee user, but... We shouldn't assume that every dating user has an expert who knows what zero content advertising are. Most of them have to network with clients. So when you support a service, they're like, yes. Yeah. So... Not every... That big user is a dating developer. I mean... They're for going to do more so. I'm not sure... It should advertise business that configures to me. Yes. Well, these are the printers I have configured. I might be sitting in an airport. And telling everybody what have been made of printers in my office. Presumably, if it's only been sitting on local posts, it's not going to be... It's not going to be advertising something over Ukraine. Am I right about that? If your printer... If your, like, print server is only been sitting on local posts, like on Blu-Bat interface, then it won't advertise externally, right? I don't know. I would see... Well, you know, I mean... If CUPS is set up to listen to only a local post-technicities by default on their bin, then Avahi won't have to advertise it externally. It's not listening internally, right? I don't know. I mean, this is why this works. It actually tells Avahi what it's doing. So it would probably be up to CUPS to... I don't think CUPS is going to communicate with Avahi at all. I'm not sure. I'm not sure what... Well, at least you can see the... I can't. I'm only seeing two. I wasn't able to see three or four, but, you know... Oh, I saw three or four earlier. Yeah. I think CUPS is also a designing problem in CUPS. I mean, it should not be running a full print agreement. It should just... It should just notice that your printer isn't running. Well, you know, CUPS does not run a broadcast. Actually, CUPS... CUPS, I think, this printer just got released with only... Yeah, it was only brown, but I mean, we're all getting things. But at the same time, it's a common misconception CUPS does not advertise your printer by default. It may look for other printers by default, but CUPS does not advertise your printer by default. Yeah. People get in trouble about that and I always do it at one point. I thought that was really bad. I just don't know what they're advertising. I mean, how to... Yeah. So that's not actually an issue in the case of printers. Yep. In the case of printers, I'm talking desktop and laptop examples. Yes, desktop and laptop doesn't advertise a printer by default. Yeah. Basically, I would expect... I would expect that there'd be some printer server or the printer that advertises itself. This is printer server that advertises. I mean, if it's CUPS, it advertises the printer. Yeah. It's not a printer. Yeah. In desktop and laptop environment, most people have one computer. They don't have a print server computer and a computer that wants to connect to the printer. Most people have a computer which has a printer up to it, so it needs a print server software. Because it has to manage things pulling and queuing and... Here, what is printer service? I just also... I said every person's service you have is right. Every pre-conditioning is doing very well. I would say that CUPS announces itself. I would back on the line. And then it sends out, okay, I have a picture of my laptop on the airport. And then I have to ask one more question. What's the problem in that? Because we can't read anyway. There is some sort of information being developed. Yeah. Because you may know the name of the printer that would give some information about your internal setup. Okay. Well, there's other kinds of information. I was in the Atlanta airport and there were some were around by looking at whether Macs were broadcasting on the internet. I could have had the page or something. There were all kinds of fun you could probably get up to when you... So from a privacy perspective, everything is turned off. Because you can get that kind of touchy with the information. Well, not like everything. It's a way for SSH to say, hello, I'm SSH. Well, unless it gives you, like, my domain name and stuff. At the same time, since we're trying to serve our users, privacy is definitely important when it's prepared by privacy. At the same time, convenience is also important and how do you balance those two. Because you just care about those. And obviously you should be able to choose your own balance but setting the default is hard. Yeah, also, we just were trying to configure it before. I think the convenience part still has a big problem of the NSS limitation that does locals know of. So, yeah, you have to... I don't have an ENS or ENS time out. Yeah. Well, that'll hopefully be a bit of an inch. I don't know. I've heard some talk. I can't remember the details of changing how that works. I don't think it's the mobile phone. I mean, right now, I probably don't let the NSS look up so much in any sort of way. I mean, couldn't you make MBNS... I mean, will the ViewerCon address have ended in anything other than the mobile phone? Oh, yeah. I think that was one of the ideas. It was to hack the NSS result versus the work, because I didn't know the big little one. And the MBNS has to be like... There was an idea. If you put MBNS first and it just skips over anything that isn't local. Yes. And that was just part of it. And I... If you can go back and make the thread, which is against the NSS and MBNS. Is it about the report saying it should be enabled, that it should be enabled by default. I don't remember what the issue was, but there was some issue that I called. So you can pause the button. Button off the connect. Not that he was to skip over or make it skip... Check it first, but make it skip over everything that wasn't at all local. So the issue might be that the issue might be that people have it all local in their personal network, maybe? I don't think that's what was... I don't think that's what came up. It actually caused some kind of a network performance issue. There was some kind of the... Yeah, I don't remember what it was. Well, that's not very close. Including one thing, it should not be enabled by default. And multiple of the days it is. Yeah. Also some kind of the web backup. Maybe I should run through everything. Actually, let's do a DNS right now. Or it doesn't even do the things we saw in this list. So, of course, we've got a body, which is the name. It works okay. We have the zero-comp package, which everybody hates, because of the network interface issue. And I think that we should definitely make sure that it's installed by default. Right now, one thing, really, is that I think if you install actually, let's say, something else, do you get it installed by default? Let me just fix this real bad. And then we have the SSM-DNS, which does the thoughtful DNS lookups. Currently, this will be configured self-automatically. We'll have actually two mod-DNSS speed, which lets you broadcast web pages or RSS speeds or anything like that. For a patch, you may have to turn it on, and configure it in a patch.com. It's auto-manual. And it's auto-automatic thing. And I think that with that, you can actually use a pep manager or something else on that work, which Jim was trying to do with awkwardly work. I got it to work. Oh, you did? Yes. What did you do? I don't know if I was working. Okay. And let's see. You can add stuff like your SSH to the network, but they don't want to have support. You just drop a pilot to the default configuration. I've sort of been wondering if we should do that by default or not. I think we should just come with a service definition for a Wi-Fi, so that every machine you know it has an SSH which is a meaningless exercise. Is there also a tool that you can run to configure and modify service advertisements? Would that have to edit something by itself? If there was an advertisement. So that would make it pretty easy. Actually, I've got yours. There's a Wi-Fi publish address. I bought the publish service. So I think these things just make a call to the Wi-Fi. You have a total of all the info, so I just want to do you for it. Does the announcement even check with the services that are actually running? In the case of the SSH, I don't know. All you know is a static call and it says, you know, basically we have this port open. I would actually, I guess the only use for that is like, you know, or key. I don't think you know it's called service discovery app let, which lets you, like, with your menu all that stuff so you can log in to other machines and other stuff which is sort of nice, I guess. Then we have rhythm box, which now automatically publish, I think it does it automatically, publishable. Oh, it doesn't? No. Okay. So the other one is no, I should turn it on. I was wondering. There's something that you could use in music. Can I talk about the phone? No, no, no. I think so. It's all on the phone. I think it's, I don't know, I don't see anything that goes to the phone. But just by what I said earlier about thinking on by the phone, I do, I do usually turn off iTunes sharing, but I still think it's reasonable for thinking on by the phone. The reason I turned it off is because, you know, in my dorm setting, people generally, I would have to download the music because they're just feeding it. And if I want to give people the guy I know about it. Yeah. I mean, the closing promise which was, you know, it's what it was. Yeah. But it was pretty good, people. For now, yeah. We should also, I think we should also think about laptop case where a single machine is going to be brought into several different environments. Quite likely, but I'll be moving because a lot of people don't need to spend in the team. So, you have a lot of programs that should run for fairly long times. You might, you might run to the end. I wish you again, you might run into issues with caching. I looked at doing the point with main caching or something. Yeah. Main caching also negative the caching forever. I don't think the NSS, the NS module is like caching. Okay. I mean, it, I think suggests NSCB will do the caching. I think it does. Anyway, I know that So, if you have that as well, it can do caching if you don't know that. I know for sure that they're right. Yeah. It does. They don't need to, they just have one caching for NSS in general. Yeah. Yeah. And if you upgrade the system, you have to have a big problem with that. Why? If, if the NSS level is changed, all programs that are different can't do any, any more DNS models. So, you basically have to power cycle. At least lock up the users and stuff. No, no, no. And that's a completely different case from the desktop setting where you put on the movie machine when it's powered down. So, you might want to think about the laptop case. That's completely different from the desktop case. You don't want to solve the caching by any means. Is the caching that makes that be the case? No. I'm just saying restarting it. Yeah. But, but, the caching is the only thing for which that, what you said about restarting is true, or? No. You have to, you have to install all programs that use NSS, which are any network server, but any, any tools that use the network. As soon as you upgrade the NSS. So, well, that's the only block resigning pedal version link. Yeah. It's happened quite often, really. I've never seen this, right? It doesn't seem to have anything to do with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with this it's not working. I think the issue might be, would the issue being the, the effections trying to load the new library and nimmt her, if you've added something to, to MCS that switch Jonas does is gonna try to dynamically load the new library. I think, I think the problem was actually the application was failing. Just trying to build it any once. I've noticed the fact that Jimmy just turned it on to not talk online and store robots. It, it definitely was upside down without me having to restart things. I think it sort of works. I mean I've seen that warning a lot too, but I haven't seen it be a problem in practice. I'm sure there are cases where you say there is a problem in practice, but there are certainly not the common case. I'm sure the warning is there for a reason, but it's often not relevant. So basically what I'm wondering about is, should there be perhaps a completely different architecture to it? For example, allowing me to search the main server or turn an MVNS on and off in the background without any application noticing this. And should this infrastructure be integrated into Sericon or should we have another tool for that? It seems pretty dependent, but that's just how the ANS is switched on. It's fine, basically. I'm just going to add some more over this and change anything else in practice. I actually want to go through and see if we may have ELC and a few other things as far as what their status is. You're supposed to support all this stuff pretty well, but that's fine. I mean, no idea if it still works. I don't know if my vision is getting sort of on the stuff. Yeah, I mean, it seems a good story, but there's a lot of application on this thing. Especially this page. It's supposed to show you that you can do with it. I think that's just trying to get through it. There we are finally. As far as the music publishing thing, it could also be a DAPS server. I don't think we have a good one at DAPS. I may know a good one. DAPS? DAPS? Is that a DAP? It's supposed to be a DAP. I see you're at RP, but probably not. Are you using some tool for what? Okay. Maybe it was removed. Remember that. Yeah, it's on my application anyway. There's another one in DAPS. Yeah, I can try to lead the risk on another one. So we're creating catwalk folders, catwalk services, and then I went to the DAPS server. Then I went to Joey Castle on Dragon, and got there. Which service might configure themselves automatically, and advertise themselves? Right. Which other ones? Should we, for example, have it in the box? I don't know if BankGIS doesn't plug in the ads, and we have support to it. I haven't checked it out. I believe that there's some games that do. I know something KDE does. Yeah. I didn't play it. Apparently, a KDE does, because we're probably not supposed to pronounce that in a meeting thing. For a while, we had an open H2H client being broadcast on the network here, which is where they're from. Dogging definitely. I mean, if I need all of this broadcast, it doesn't work otherwise. That's it. I'm sure there's more stuff that's like KDE, and it's like, I don't know what it is. Should there be a DAPCONS question on installing apps, where they should announce them all? I mean, if you're installing a lobby, you definitely want to do collaborative editing, which is another reason to install it. Yeah. Basically, there's no other reason to run it. Exactly. If you're running it, you're wanting to start a session. If you're doing collaborative editing, where are you specified who you want to talk to? I'm sure you can do that. You asked me for a password when I started it up, and I wasn't sure if that was my password or if it was a session password. So, it was a big difference. Yeah, I've already known passwords, and someone wants to try to use both of them and see how that works. You need to make a distinction between the system source and the way it counts. I don't know. I'd use this in a business, but I mean, it doesn't really matter if no one game is announced there, that they're only on system by default if you start a game right. Yeah, but if you start a game and it announces to the vote that you're running a game, I would consider it a bit of a feature of both. It really depends on how it announces. Yeah. Otherwise, I mean, it's a breach of privacy to run Quake if you want to connect to a server and you're playing Quake, it's the same thing. No, if you start a game locally, you pay against yourself. Well, I assume you're playing Quake, but I don't keep that as a feature, so... Yeah, I think... That's good. There might be other games there. I think a lot of companies, like a key department, will absolutely... I'm not saying this thing. They can miss the network. So, any game that does any network doesn't matter, we use a zero point for a lot of small systems. I mean, Tetranet has the same issue. For example, if you have a game that can't be played alone or can't be played against each other, as soon as you start a game with fast broadcast... Yeah, but I think the thing that makes sense is that the player holds the network now, but not itself. Yeah, but... There are convenience people in that... If you start discovering earlier, then you might find... This is a political discussion, not about technicals, because... I think the more important question that we read in the future is what do you do I think you should ask. So, we asked each service if there is a certain set of your own that this service... By default? So, they complain about necessities... No, necessities doesn't... I mean, necessities doesn't set up anything, right? No, that's right. Yeah, right now, necessities aren't any more. So, I think that problem makes sense. I have a rule that would be... Obviously, it's sort of small. Yeah, it's like... Exactly, you can run an app... It's the same thing. Yeah... But you can... You can... You cannot... You're using a broadcast... Right. But, yeah, my question was which way should the question go? Because it seems like a chicken egg problem because we were talking about 0.0, and then if you have a config question it's not 0.0, so... Well, it depends on the question. It's close when you install the package. That's the point. That's the point, because usually they mean if you install something it's enabled because if you install you mean... That's right. But the point was should 0.0 be as a central configuration and enable this one, this one, or package should ask, should enable myself. I think that's the limitation that makes us do this crowd package. Okay, we don't have the reason for such a limitation. So you have to... Yeah, you have to choose the choices and we ask the question but we don't have more services yet. No, you can just have one question if you want to. Yeah, one question and I'll try to list just one question that just asks one question. I said one template, I said one question. Yeah. One question, do you want there's a broadcasted... Yeah, okay. Or do you want your system services broadcast by default if you install it already at that point? Do you want to do that? Do you want to do that? Do you want to do this? I don't think that's been... What are we aiming at? I don't get... What are we aiming at? We had a question which gets stuck in the question. What? The question of what would be the ideal solution would we want to ask people on your installations about whether they want to broadcast this service, that service and so on to answer questions. You can ask the same question but we can have a single question with a lot of choices which might be repeated over and over again as new packages are installed and well so it's controlled versus convenience basically, yeah. If I install zero, I think it would be probably not as okay, but this is one of them. I would probably accept that I won't talk about the same question because I don't know what I'm answering. That's the truth. The other thing and this is the whole thing, if I install the thing and I accept the whole idea, the whole concept this would be... Part of the problem is you can accept the concept that you might want to rather share your music with the box if you turn it on and read the box but that doesn't necessarily mean that you want to share it as a safe session just because you have to install it as a safe team but what you have to do is it really is different from the class of the service as what you said and so I guess I mean... Then we have to have people explain what they're saying yes, I'm not because it's... then we have the kind of because it's a security issue you can make it a security issue as you do you can make two or three teachers that is cool, exceptionally modern, whatever children loves they want to have the room and all the guys come to the street they have windows and a layout of life and they want to share music let them do that and you have to find out what's cool features to make this sound Do you want to create a podcast for all the music on your computer that is cool Sure, I do believe that your point has some problems because if I recall correctly Avahi is starting to become a free desktop to our project so it will be like part of the whole integration of inter-communication between packages and in that the case then it's better to have as many services supporting it because it's kind of an integration stuff we can help I think that's a big part of the problem I think the majority of the users don't want to announce stuff but they do want to find stuff I think that's completely brain dead I'm not sure it's true I don't this is kind of things that we have to our thousand people to ask and they also have to give them the option to test it and see what they're doing and they don't find all kind of pattern that they have never seen before it should also be properly it's possible to just ask about your friends and get a very simple example because they have to be your friends for any definition of you or friends I think I mean we have nine machines on our network right now that's it but the network was down for several hours and the problem was it is a little bit lower I think I've seen maybe twice this many something like that so so going back to the differential services I think that the two categories are really limited so why two categories are not three why can I say that they want to relax on my system services but not say the work browser then the work server so maybe in the video of multiple questions in which you're saying it's got a package you can see that it's got actually you need to choose if you want to share music or not you can receive music but you need to choose so the point you were it's also a distinction to whether the user chooses a good one or the systems and what we're talking about the system services should the user service be a user service and application choice by the political statement and the other choice should be in the system admin space and the third thing well it has some appeal I don't say this is right but to have more than five choices it's just confusing and it's probably more than four it's probably better three as probably the best it's some kind of things between that well if they don't have a choice it could be yeah I agree you should install the thing you have some choice or is this well lots of people are into installing on it yeah from combining that with SSH so if you're only running a server and you install SSH and you didn't install the bot you probably won't broadcast it because otherwise we don't want to install it but if you're running a desktop or something you could install SSH I don't know for services I'm going to show you the BI you probably need to find control of which services are supporting the BI which are not for the user stuff and find the device by the phone and if they have an option find the application for it but at the same time you don't want to ask the user a lot of questions but wait for the service you ask when you install the package and think that if the bot is not asking for user stuff for configuring when you install the package the problem is that a lot of systems today have one thing in the user sorry I forgot have one thing in the user for most of them this is going to be the system administrator so it's the same person that gets asked so this actually is a problem but you were talking just now and it may be a complete rubbish but this might just be your own opinion so is there a way for an installation time to check if the system if the package you're installing is built as dependency don't start the demo because it's not what the user wants to run I understand the condition so if you install all some package as a dependency this is not because the user wants it so the demo should not be started and this will be probably generalized to solve many similar problems and if someone needs the demo to be working he should just install it explicitly yeah the written bot will just say that I cannot connect to the backup service so it will notify that it's not starting and it's always that the user should do something about that the user case will be similar administrators in use machine these people don't want to export the service because they're probably not aware of even running the services in the majority of cases and if they will internally install the service then they might just answer the question whether they want to have the export or not so we should make sure that on the default install there's many services installed and SierraCon just announces nothing because there are no services and then the user slots in and perhaps starts a cave membership or whatever and then there's something to announce that would be the most same solution for everybody because if you have a system administrator that takes care of things then these people probably want to default control everything if it's a large installation they will pre-seed at that point anyway so it doesn't make anything work for them a little bit but yeah I don't think in current my cache I don't think any services are on the default maybe a few except for any sort of programs nobody logs in I think one exception that might be something like you only install if you want to share your music but this was not on the default it wasn't but it's on a string you might want to say it might be the same or something like that to default on but it's as age then well no, it's as age is different but you don't install as age because you want to broadcast but yeah it makes sense to not enable by default the unattended programs or it's a good signal choice when you install a bargain do you wish to enable system services by default the admin can overwrite that on a service base it's quite easy because it won't they're probably scribble over the shouldn't scribble over the local configuration files it's a good way to do it it's a signal question and it's the system administrator's choice user programs I think it's done to do you use to be the general well if it's fine it's more fine control which you can't it should be so there should be there should be a policy or a policy that says if you're a desktop environment do not depend on any services if you're taking a meta package shall not in any case depend or recommend as as age open a safe server for example and should not depend on any other service that might be announced so if you install a desktop machine or a laptop you would not end up installing any services unless you choose to and then you get up those specific services where you want to announce them which would be two or three and you already know what you do and ready where you want to announce them the directory that is in the the body service directory the static services and actually ship service files right now if you want to enable us a page you have to find the service for example service file that enables it may be good to have an equal location where these things can be put just for reference yeah yeah yeah services I can't really think of any except for SSH maybe I'm sure you can broadcast anything that listens to the board you know yeah what server needs to have separate configuration because it's the matching module and you have to tell it which web pages it's different for everybody yeah but it should probably be in the package containing the service not in the body package because otherwise you end up with a lot of interesting new places old packages that you have to deal with I started on the audio website which was just some of the all of them or something for some German magazine basically lists a lot of services and then I went around for others and it's all complete because I haven't expanded the section Katie like I said and there's a couple I don't know if VLC is supposed to use something with me that's why I have no idea what I haven't been able to figure it out and good games are supposed to support how I don't even know which games so it's sort of complete how in a moment well yeah the body player the body house might work I have no idea if it works actually he tries to say okay we support your company so what I'm trying to do with this is here it's your company so it's more stable and so we know more about it so yeah if it's yeah make sure that it's probably some other programs I can have your support I don't know that you can add it to the CC but it's the same what? to the CC? I like your software wow haha haha yeah yeah for example for example it was currently happening is the SSH to the OpenSSH the Dying and Zerglings transition and some of the best packages still depend on SSH which puts in both right so we end up advertising SSH though they probably don't even know about and that's the condition which should get fixed as far as but on by default by default certainly at least MDNS lookup and service discovery should be something that is available in the people that's an environment without the user having to know about probably the search discovery that should be fixed yeah I mean maybe we're making room for this all proportion we don't even know what the controls are maybe it doesn't do service discovery unless a client is connected I mean I have no idea I would write the code so you have it so the solution is to make service discovery a library for the part of the enemy why does it need to be part of the enemy I assume cache or something like that and SED yeah I still have the reason I would like to see as part of the user the user that's running the session is that the longer you have it on the system you have to do the running for you I certainly don't see why I think the library is the right solution for the service discovery because for all we know there might be system level programs that a particular user or a particular system owner might want to install that might also want to use the service discovery a user level desktop program and might want to push something out there and advertise but so therefore it shouldn't be user level program running but it also shouldn't be the demon because there's no need to have a demon running to look up other computers so it should really be library so let's go right at it most likely as a I will be back soon so I'm going to disturb you guys I wanted to say goodbye I'm leaving early morning see you guys at the next hip-con let's go bye we've got enough of those people here yeah I'm not sure this is the solution that we made it's just based on a small note it works long enough to have a security issue we actually will try something that's true I'll tell you a whole lot of stuff yeah one of the ones I was going to say was security it's something like a start-up service maybe a start-up service came out of charge I'm just facing both processes they're both sitting here I'm going to try this over do you see anything oh I actually get activity activity on the I don't know what do you want I thought it was supposed to be the protocols talking with the devil they're done with the protocol? yeah apparently they're out of the game you hear your reeds a bunch of them so the environment level on the center window some strings of double reeds apparently so what that's pretty cool you have to admit doesn't have an action clause assigned oh yeah had a had a board that used it I don't know if they had it I'm interested in some people actually listening it's just sad it's just bunches of W's it holds 4x4 if we do one we can see if it just changes to like $60,000 or something but it will still work as it does I definitely see what it resorts to when I launch the game it ceases advertising when I connect when I it's cool you do have to I mean I haven't really been looking for it all the service I thought it would be good to have like a in a lobby in a lobby ruleable question defaulting to no saying do I have to consider this by any goal yeah yeah the problem with that is I mean if you get it on the default if they aren't installing any system service it would be better if the question would only ask if the service that could actually broadcast the lobby came out of just the lobby were installed so it would be better if it was as they asked if it was installed if it was just one question if the question had been seen yet if the question hadn't been said it would ask yeah you might want to ask the general question whether it's a medium and for individual services well no if I haven't said Joe's idea it's still to have only one question but have it not be asked until for the service that needs it and the lobby and so on that as well so if it's not the first service do you what do you want to do in case you don't see any other questions again like if you use the right what's default for system services I'm happy with defaulting now unless although you write certain system services like that even though even there it doesn't if you compare definitely not then you might want to know if it's medium then you might want to go with default and if you don't want to if you don't want to answer the subject of questions when installing packages then load forward I think it's fine to just have default and have a command line tool to update it because we need to have every package I agree I personally would have default the only problem with that is because you're assuming you actually want to have defaults that's the situation for large installations it might be a good thing to have in each service somebody who can please need them maybe just a question what's the default package but priority low or medium I think machines that are installed nowadays have the defaults of high so if we make it priority medium it'll default to no and nothing will be done without priority medium for the default command line tool to vary an instance in a case there's no need to have like the attitude modulate disabled that would be that would be a little that would be a better method yes yes it's a different use case for Apache you have a limited set of servers for this installation you'll have machines and you want just all of the same installation with pre-seed it's not that isn't really that's not I can't see that actually being a problem in practice even for large installation and I do with help with minimal large installation I can't see that ever being a problem in practice in a large installation you would know what all the machines are especially if you're pre-seed you would know what the machines are if you're pre-seed you should have a method for example I don't see this actually being an issue in a large network but it's not a hack for installation basically you need to SSH to each machine and enable it with the command line tool pre-seed so the question instead could be the question is the question is that instead of being a yes no it could be what services do you it could be one question saying what services do you want to have on by default or what services do you want to have on by default leave blank for none put it all to make the default services or specify on the state-separated list of services and that could be pre-seeded and not having to worry about it mind book that's a reasonable compromise