 Here's the strategy and you bring this up, Adam, how challenging a conversation is as a trainer. Someone's willing to pay me $1,000 or $2,000 to train them for a month or two months or three months or whatever. And they're like, I just need to lose 50 pounds. And I'm like, okay, how am I gonna tell this person, we're not gonna lose any weight for the first three months. So the way I would say, and this is what I'm gonna say to people listening right now is if your number one goal is to lose weight for the first three months, your goal should be to get stronger. That's it. Your goal for the first three months is, I'm gonna go to the gym and my goal is to get strong in the gym. My goal is to feel stable, to get good exercise technique to get stronger in core lifts, squats and deadlifts and presses and rows and part of the process of getting stronger is make sure I feed myself enough so that it can fuel that strength. After three months, if you've gotten significantly stronger, if you can see that you're lifting more weight and you feel tighter and you're, again, you're stronger, now start to cut. You'll be way more successful. Now that's very generic, okay? Cause it can be different from person to person, but that piece of advice right there is gonna serve people far better than the traditional, oh, you wanna lose weight, cut your calories and go do a bunch of cardiovascular activity. For the first three months, just get strong. Trust me, it will set you up far better than anything else you've done in the past. Hey, real quick, here's the giveaway for today's episode. Maps Performance, free to one of you listeners. Just do this, leave a comment below in the first 24 hours that we drop this episode. Subscribe to this channel, turn on notifications, do all those things. If we like your comment, we'll notify you, you'll get free access to Maps Performance. Also, we're running a new sale cause it's a new month. Check this one out. Maps Prime, Maps Prime Pro, Maps Anywhere. Three programs, a brand new bundle that they would retail. If you got them all on their own for $361, but right now you can get all three for $99.99. One payment and it gives you access to all three programs for life. So if you wanna try it out, you wanna sign up, you just wanna learn more, go to mapsapral.com. All right, here comes the rest of the show. If you wanna lose weight, one of the first things a lot of you should do is actually increase your calories. Ooh, how does that work? I like it. Sounds so opposite. I like this tip and all the loather dynamics nerds are gonna, the heads are gonna explode right now. So think of it this way, right? Cause it took me a little while to figure this out. What's funny too is the three of us trained on our own, trained lots of clients, we all came to the same conclusion. You would get a client, most people wanna lose weight. So you get a client, they wanna lose a lot of weight and you have two options. One, get them to lose some weight now, hit a hard plateau cause of metabolism adapts. Oh crap, we're in this really kind of bad position or create some runway, give them some space where we can cut from in the near future. And part of that process is slowly increasing calories, simultaneously also employing some strength training. Cause if you start to build muscle or at the very least if you tell the body to build muscle and it moves and trends in that direction, the metabolism adapts in a way that's beneficial. It speeds up and it's way easier to lose weight when you have a faster metabolism than it is when you have a slower metabolism. Well, you first have to, you have to break down for the audience, what signal are you sending to the body when you decide to take calories, restrict calories from it and all of a sudden increase activity. And a lot of times that's cardio and weight training all at once because you weren't doing anything before, you are now motivated whether it be from the doctor or a wedding coming up or a birthday or a New Year's resolution and now you've decided, I'm gonna make a change, a new way of life. And I know that I'm supposed to stop eating these bad foods so you restrict and then you all of a sudden say, I'm gonna get after it. So you got to explain why that is such a bad strategy. This is what makes weight loss so hard is that your metabolism adapts and the signals that it receives tells your body in which direction the metabolism should adapt. So if you're eating, let's say you're eating 2000 calories a day and you cut it all the way down to 1200 plus you start to do lots of cardio where you're burning lots of calories. Initially there's a calorie deficit. You're eating 1200, your body's burning more calories than it was before, you're gonna lose some weight but then what the body does is it adapts its metabolism so that that 1200 calories you're taking in is enough to sustain you. And by the way, okay, this may sound crazy except for almost everybody watching this has experienced this. You lose that initial 10 pounds, you hit a hard plateau and then you're in this position where you're like, do I cut even more calories? Do I work out even more? Like I'm already eating not that much but let's just say you're one of those really crazy motivated individuals and you're like, I'm gonna cut even more. I'm gonna work out even more. Eventually you're in this position where maybe you do hit your goal but you're eating very low calories, you're working out every single day, very hard to sustain. Now on the flip side, what we can do is we could tell the metabolism to adapt in the opposite direction by building some muscle and in order to build muscle you have to fuel the body a little bit. So you feed the body, you build some muscle and you give yourself runway. So now after maybe a few months, let's say I get my metabolism up to 2,800 calories a day. Well, now I can cut from there. I have way more room to go. And then where I end up is I'm eating and this, I used to do this all the time. Clients would lose 20 or 30 pounds and actually end up eating more at the end of that weight loss journey they did when they walked into it. Now we have sustainability, otherwise it's so hard. This is the whole delayed versus immediate gratification and strategy and it's all psychological and it's really important for coaches to graduate to the place where they can recommend the right path for their clients instead of just providing them with what they're coming in and expecting and prescribing something that's really gonna have long-term success. And this is the way to do it and to get the body healthier, to stretch the capacity for them to eat in a really comfortable, if not more than comfortable place. So then we can start scaling it down to cut and define the physique a bit more from that. I think this is a really challenging conversation for young coaches and trainers when you first get started to, first of all, I think the first part of my career I didn't even piece this together or fully grasped. Well, I did the wrong thing. Yeah, I mean, I come from the camp of like law, thermodynamics is all that matters and that, you know, if they're eating X, we need to subtract something out of that and that's the best strategy to get them to lose weight. That's because we don't consider that your metabolism adapts, right? Cause that would make sense if it didn't adapt, but it does and then you're screwed, where are you at? Yeah, and so I think that when you're piecing this together and then you add in the fact of what a hard conversation that is to the client who comes in, they sit across from the desk and they tell you I need to lose 50 or 100 pounds and imagine, you know, being that young trainer and you are trying to communicate to them that, okay, well, the first thing that we're gonna do is we're going to add food to your diet. You know, just how hard that is for them to receive that and then how hard that is as a coach to like navigate through that conversation on explaining why we wanna do this in the long run. But I tell you, when I finally pieced this all together, I've made a world of difference on helping my clients that needed to lose weight for long-term, right? Like I can take anybody and starve them or restrict dramatic amount of calories and tell them to burn, burn, burn, move, move to get them to lose 10, 15, 20 pounds or whatever, but the sustainability of that is crazy. Like just because of the point you made, like if someone's already at pretty low calories and not moving very much and I take them and I start moving them like crazy and restricting, even if they do see the initial results, eventually they're gonna hit a hard wall and then you look at yourself and you're like, I'm not even halfway to my goal of losing 100 pounds or whatever I want to and I'm only eating this much, I'm training this many days a week, I'm exhausted, I think I was happier, fatter. Look at the studies on the biggest loser. The biggest loser of the TV show where they take these really obese individuals who are super motivated, obviously they're on a TV show, they beat the crap out of them, they restrict their calories and the goal is to see who can lose the most weight and then the biggest loser wins the competition. The follow up with these people is insane. You're talking about individuals who after the show gained weight on anything over 1,100 or 1,200 calories a day and many of them were trying to keep up these crazy workout routines where church is not sustainable. I mean, look, here's the truth. If we took 100 regular people off the streets and I asked them, raise your hand if you've ever lost 15 pounds, I bet you 90 plus of them would raise your hand. Now, if I said how many of you lost 20 pounds and kept it off for over five years, you'd see one, right? That's the challenge. The challenge isn't losing the weight, the challenge is how do I set myself up so that the weight stays off? You don't set yourself up well if you're hammering your metabolism to slow down and adapt, now it's really challenging. Well, what do you think is the biggest deterrent for people to stick with their diet initially? They think it's so rigid, right? Oh, it's so restrictive. Like I can't wait till I get there and then all this magical, I'm gonna get to that place where I feel good about my body, my weight and all this and then I can get back to eating those foods again when in fact it's even more rigid once you get there for you apply that principle of losing weight because now any calorie that goes above, like you said, that 1,100 mark or wherever you're at, I mean, your body's gonna respond. Yeah, here's the strategy. And you bring this up, Adam, how challenging a conversation is as a trainer. Someone's willing to pay me $1,000 or $2,000 to train them for a month or two months or three months or whatever. And they're like, I just need to lose 50 pounds. I'm like, okay, how am I gonna tell this person, we're not gonna lose any weight for the first three months. So the way I would say, and this is what I'm gonna say to people listening right now is if your number one goal is to lose weight for the first three months, your goal should be to get stronger. That's it. Your goal for the first three months is I'm gonna go to the gym and my goal is to get strong in the gym. My goal is to feel stable, to get good exercise technique to get stronger in core lifts, squats and dead lifts and presses and rows and part of the process of getting stronger is to make sure I feed myself enough so that it can fuel that strength. After three months, if you've gotten significantly stronger, if you can see that you're lifting more weight and you feel tighter in your, again, you're stronger, now start to cut, you'll be way more successful. Now that's very generic, okay, because it can be different from person to person, but that piece of advice right there is gonna serve people far better than the traditional, oh, you wanna lose weight, cut your calories and go do a bunch of cardiovascular activity. For the first three months, just get strong. I trust me, it will set you up far better than anything else you've done in the past. Well, the question you asked him is, is your goal to lose as much weight as you can as fast as you possibly can, or is your goal to lose X amount of pounds and keep it off for the rest of your life? That's what, I always, I would make the client say that back to me and most all of them would be like, well, of course I wanna keep it off for myself. My goal is just to lose it real quick and then put it back on and then you can go into explaining like the two different strategies. Like, yes, if I just decided to cut your calories dramatically from where you're currently at, I make you run every single day on the treadmill and lift weights every single day, we will lose the most amount of weight possible in the short period of time. The problem with that is it's impossible or almost impossible for you to sustain that for the rest of your life. You just won't. I've never seen it happen in my entire career. I've been doing this. So if you tell me that, hey, Adam, my goal is to lose 30 pounds and then keep it off for the rest of my life, there's a different approach that we have to take. A faster metabolism is a massive asset in modern society. So we're surrounded by so much food. It's so accessible and tasty and easy that having a fast metabolism, look, having a fast metabolism 50,000 years ago wasn't a great thing. You don't wanna be the guy or girl who can't store body weight very easily. You're dead. You're like, you're not gonna survive. But today it's the opposite. If you, look, if I could snap my fingers and have everybody's metabolism increased by 1,000 calories a day, we would solve the obesity epidemic overnight. Literally, just cause your body's burning it off naturally. So that's the idea. And then also consider this. Your metabolism is with you whether you're exercising or not. So you speed up the metabolism. You're burning more calories all the time. When you're at work at your desk, when you're watching TV with your kids or hanging out, you're burning more calories. So this is the strategy you want. Give yourself a little bit of time to build that strength. So initially, if your goal is weight loss, focus on that first. It'll set you up. It just, it makes all the difference. It's the only way if you want flexibility for the rest of your life and your diet. I've never met anybody that wants to eat chicken rice and broccoli for the rest of their life and that's it. If you wanna be able to enjoy a glass of wine every once in a while or a dessert or go out to eat and not feel like you have to count the calories. But the problem is people don't feel that way when they're in this position because they go from eating 1,500 to 1,700 calories. They restrict down to 1,300 to lose weight. Well, then when they decide to have two glasses of wine and now they intake 500 calories, it's more than a third of their caloric intake for the day. But at that same person, I can build muscle, speed their metabolism up over the course of, say, three, six, nine months and get them up to where their body is burning 2,800 calories a day. And they decide to have a glass or two of wine. It doesn't affect them the same way that it affects them if they were the person who was eating only 1,300 calories. 100%, 100%. All right, so I think we should talk about, I know we already talked about Will Smith slapping the shit at our Chris Rock at the Academy Awards. You didn't like my underhand pitch on the wine, I thought that was a really good underhand pitch. We'll go there. You didn't pick up on that. We'll go there, but I wanna talk about this first because this is a big deal. We'll get back to wine, but this is a big deal, right? Because it's everywhere and people are speculating a crazy about what the deal is. And what I had said in the, we talked about this first about him getting away with it in the sense that he didn't, security didn't stop him from assaulting someone. He went back to his chair, sat down, not only that, won an Oscar, not only that, got a standing ovation, literally minutes after he slapped somebody. Yeah, he was there the whole time, like partied afterwards with everybody, like nothing happened. Dude, backlash is happening. So there's a official release from the Oscars saying, we don't condone violence and this is terrible. They're probably considering some kind of punishment to save face. But boys, this is a reflection of the death, in my opinion, the death of old Hollywood celebrities. This is total refresher. Do we believe now that it was not staged? Are you 100% on the- I think it was real. So I'm still not all the way sold. Really? I'm not. You know why? Because- I sort of changed my mind. I'm on the fence a little more now, but I'm still not 100% convinced. What happens with the Oscars and then what happens with Chris Rock afterwards still for me is what I'm waiting for. The Oscars really do pull his award and or say you're not invited next year, somewhere that they actually punish him somehow. Okay, then maybe not. But I still think that they would be in on this because it's them who's gonna get the greatest benefit from them. They are getting the most views because the more people- Oscar has been said and Googled in the last 48 hours more than probably anything else has. For the first time, and God knows when. So I still think that- It's a win for them, however you wanna do it. That's right. I don't know if it's a win. So the only way that they're not in on it and not okay and it wasn't something staged was if they take action. If they don't take action, I believe they were a part of it. And of course they're gonna say something if they're trying to make it look like it's real but not really do anything. Here's the thing, I don't think it's a win. I really don't. It's like the NFL with steroids and stuff. It's like we gotta act like we're doing something about it but we really want it to happen. If this didn't happen, they're just gonna like fall away into obscurity anyways. Like their ratings, nobody was watching it. Nobody cared except for like when Ricky Gervais roasted everybody. This was another one of those things that just was sort of, it happened and all of a sudden like it just blew up with publicity. Here's why I don't think this was staged because it's not good at all. This literally highlights all the critiques about that whole industry. The fact that A, here's one critique, comedians under attack for making jokes. Yeah, but I see, okay, I don't- Hold on, let me keep going. There's that. Celebrities follow a different set of rules. And boy, has that been under serious scrutiny over the last couple of years with the pandemic and the mandates and how they get caught doing whatever the hell they want. So there's that one right there. There's the, you know, how you get treated because you're a celebrity versus other people. How you got away with it. The expression of violence just out of nowhere. Like it's all, it makes them all look bad in a way that it's can't be good. Remember the Oscars used to be about like prestige, royalty. I don't know, to say they, you're now lumping all, it's Will Smith who looks bad. They, everybody else doesn't look bad. But that's not how people- And I don't buy that argument because it's bad publicity is still good publicity. It's attentionized. The way that those, the Oscars makes money is views, viewerships, ad revenue. That's, and they are probably been taking- You've seen this with all old media. For the last decade. They've gone a hundred percent, like they love negative stories. That's what sells. And I think- They do, but there's no long standing. If they were condoning this, they have to come out and act like, it's just like I said, it's just like the MLB and the NFL with steroids. They can't come out and condone it and say it's okay to do it. So they put in these things to make it sound like they really don't want- But behind closed doors, you bet your ass that they are okay with those guys- That's so different. You can't compare. Sure. That's a better comparison than your angle. No way. For sure. Steroids makes you play baseball better and football better. Steroids makes bigger, faster- Bad publicity brings more attention to eyes and added revenue. But it's wrong. It's the wrong kind because it doesn't last. What are they gonna do? They're gonna keep having award shows where people fight- I agree, but like you've seen this with every corporate business. Like you've seen them just bite on the, you know, the negative, whatever it is that they can put out there to get attention. Like they're using that as a form of like a tool in their toolbox. I don't think so. What do you think, Doug? What is the benefit to Will Smith? He had to participate, right? Yeah. There's zero benefit to him. So one, it didn't destroy him. That's what's leading- Two, that is the part I'm with you, Justin. That makes me go like, okay. Okay, it can be real. But that also could have easily been like, maybe he didn't think that he was gonna get that hammered over it. Maybe people, cause here's the thing. You guys, he's not getting completely destroyed from this, okay? No, there's a lot of people- He's being celebrated by a lot of people. Yes, there's a lot of people. There's just as many people that are going like- Stand up. Yes, right. Good for him for defending his wife. So he is not being destroyed by this by any means. He hasn't been canceled. He hasn't got his award taken from him. He came out and said, apology. Everybody was under, if you look underneath the comments, 90% of them are positive and supportive of him. So he is not getting, you know, black bulb for this at all. I think this will be the worst attempt at getting ratings in all of history. I think it's- Worse, it's been already proven to be successful. Successful how? Because in the short term- By views and attention in us talking about it. It's so negative. It's trending more negative than positive. 100%. No, no, not 100%. Go look at, like I just said, go look under the comments. Okay, Doug makes a good point. And that's the part, and Justin agrees, I agree that the one thing that makes me go like, really, Will, this makes you look kind of bad. But that's my opinion. That's not the majority. A majority of people are actually siding with him. They give a standing O after he got up and got his award. That's because- I mean, it's very similar to this cancel culture vibe, right? It's like attack, you know? Cancel. Except- You know, it's like this whole violent, it just falls right in suit with a lot of this culture. If the Academy Award planned this, if they all planned it, if the Oscar would have, if they all planned this, then what security would have pulled him out right away? Cause that's the biggest scrutiny. They were caught off guard. Will Smith got to sit down. Everybody was shocked. We don't know what to do. Standing ovation. Everybody's getting ridiculed for it. If it was planned, they would have said, okay, we need to make sure that when he does this, we pull him off stage. Otherwise, we all look bad. Otherwise, we all look like a bunch of idiots. I think their opportunists is my angle, right? So I don't necessarily, I don't know for sure if it was not planned or not, right? But I'm leaning more towards it probably was not planned, but in terms of them as an organization, they're capitalizing on the intention, however said. No way, dude. And it's such- I mean, dude- It's a dying cries of a dying industry. It's like the last gas. Well, that I agree with you there. That's why I think it's staged. I think that they, I think they're all somewhat in on it and they need views. They need views. They know they're dying. They're getting their ass kicked by social media. Old Hollywood is dying. And this for a moment is making them more relevant. It really is. I mean, when was the last time you talked about the Oscars? Did you know that- So I was seeing a bunch of memes and stuff mentioning Tupac Shakur and Jada. Oh yeah. I didn't know this. Did you know that- I didn't know what you- I mean, Tupac had this really close relationship that Will was super jealous of when they first got married. How old was- And he wrote about it in the book. Tupac died when he was 25. So he was a- This was the 90s and I think Will and Jada at first started this when they first got together. And he wrote about it, I guess in some book. His book that he just wrote. Yeah, that like it really bothered him. You know, and here's another thing too. I would love to see this. And we could probably look this up. For sure we'll be able to in a couple of weeks. Just look at his book sales from this. Let's see where Will Smith's book sales are in two weeks or three weeks. Sure. Are they trending up or are they trending down? There certainly isn't people burning them in the streets. So he didn't get- He's not- Also too, think about the anticipation for next year's Oscars. Like what are they gonna do? What hosts they're gonna have? Should Chris Rock come back and have like a neck brace on again? My favorite meme was that the next year's Oscars would be hosted by Mike Tyson. With Mike Tyson. Yeah, that was a good one. I mean, hey- Yeah, dude. Would he have done it if it wasn't Chris Rock, but The Rock? Okay, so if it really- If they caught the Oscars off guard and they are not happy with it and it makes them look so bad, then Sal, what are you gonna say if they don't take action? If they don't take action? If they don't take action. Oh, I think they will. What I'm saying- You know what I think? Here's what they're gonna do. They're waiting. This is how shitty they are. This is what's stupid. It's literally- Virtue signaling people or their minds are just exploding. They're waiting. Which way do I go? Yes, they're waiting. Let's wait and see what public said. You know what though? And this is why I know it's bullshit. They're getting chastised by liberal outlets like The View. They're getting chastised. But everybody's chastising them, saying this was a terrible- Stop over generalization like that. Not everybody, Sal. It's like half and half. It's really- It's not half and half. Yes it is, dude. I think so. Please, someone defend me here. There's just as much support for the situation that there is negativity. No, no, there's more negative. There's a ton of people out there that are saying like- That's why they came out with their statement. That's why they had to come out with their statement. Well, that's happening no matter what. Whether it was stage or not, they're gonna come out with their statement. They have to say something. It's the whole thing with like smash and burning buildings. You gotta crack a few eggs to make an omelette or whatever. It's a mentality that needs to stop with this violent, like you solve things with violence, you know? But there's a lot of people I think that way right now. If you think about it, like, okay, if you think it was real, or if you want to play that game, it was real, it was not a display of manhood. It was a display of weakness. He slapped him, of course it's not. Super insecure. If you're gonna make that movie, you better throw a real right hook. It was a real insecure movie he could have done. Yeah, very, and it was like, you know, his wife looked at him, you know, because at first he laughed kind of nervously. Well, that's the biggest thing, right? I saw, again, the Star Wars meme, because that's where I live. It's like, he's laughing like, Institute Order 66, and he's just like, oh. Oh, shit. I have to. I just can't believe that he sat down, nobody did anything. And then when he got up, this is how disgusting these celebrities are. They live in such a bubble, they're the fakest fucking people in the world. They give him a standing ovation. What? Yeah. What? Yay! You just hit a fucking comedian who made a relief. Yeah, we forgot all about that two seconds ago. Not forget about it. They gave him a standing ovation because he did that. You think they would? Yeah, I mean, but you know, you're proving my point. That's how many people were accepted it. They're not only accepted, they supported it. They thought, you know what? Chris Rock was out of line. He went too far on a joke, which by the way, I don't agree with you. Ricky Gervais went way harder. Oh, I agree. I mean, really to me, did you guys ever watch? Did you watch the whole, I watched his whole YouTube thing that he did on his weight loss journey. I don't know if you guys watched all of it. I watched the whole thing. I don't watch the whole thing. He's definitely mentally tortured and has a lot going on. And so you add that, you add his whole red table thing where his wife sits down in the top. I think his wife abuses him. That's what I think. Seriously. Yeah, I think he emotionally... I don't disagree with that. I don't disagree with that at all. And that... It's a lot like that. If it was real, that makes a little more sense, right? He is definitely not the one who's wearing the pants in the relationship in this situation. Oh, that looks bad, huh? Yeah, well, and then she kind of makes that look where she was disapproving of that joke. Because right before that, he's laughing. I mean, whether it's awkwardly laughing or not, he's still pretending to play along. He kind of do that at first, yeah. Right, right. But then when he looks over and he sees Jada and realizes that it's not okay. You don't like this, babe? Oh, shit. I'm gonna hear this about this video. Let me go slap the guy's face. I feel like if it was real and it was not staged that the Oscars have to do something. Even I don't care if it's as simple as he doesn't get an invite next year or... But they have to take some sort of action to say that we don't condone that behavior and this is unacceptable. Otherwise, it does become a Jerry Springer show. Like, what happens next year? You know what I'm saying? If Will Smith smacks Chris Rock, I mean... You know what's gonna happen? I'm gonna tell you what's gonna happen. And this is why I love... This is why I have so much respect for the art of comedy in terms of, especially stand-up comedians. Dude. Because they're all the way... Because they are gonna push comedians. You know what's gonna happen? There's gonna be entire bits done about Will Smith and his family. 100%. He opened himself up to getting... Because you know, that's something that they think about every time they go on stage. There's some drunk asshole that's gonna talk trash to them and wanna come up there and come on stage. If they don't have security, you know, that's a real viable threat. Well, I don't know about you guys. So I watch stand-up. I know you do, Jess. I watch stand-up all the time. There was a second there, literally. It was a very short period of time where comedians were getting attacked and canceled. Yes. And they came back with a vengeance. The stand-up comedy I'm seeing now is really... Like they go off the rails. This is where part of my whole cancel culture thing. I feel like they encourage that because they wanna silence a lot of the opposition voice, like the comedic voice, the canary in the coal mine kinda calling you out for the absurdity of it. Yeah, yeah. And so it's like, you know, to stifle somebody's opinion, like it's just easy as a slap. Yeah, all right. Well, I mean, they have set the table for, you know, everybody that's in comedy for like the next two years is like, that will be the biggest joke ever. Like, I don't... Will Smith looks bad on all angles on this. Oh, yeah. Have you ever seen... I have never seen as many memes and stuff made over a situation. That fast and that much. It was just rife for it. You know what else this highlights? Just how like fake people's outrageous on social media what they care about. It literally took a celebrity slapping another celebrity to erase Ukraine news off my feed. I know. Gone. Crazy. Gone. Nobody cares for however long this, you know, takes up the feed. Yeah. Isn't that funny? It is. Like overnight, I go on my... It's like, nobody's debating and arguing over this thing that they pretend to care about. So it's sad, but again, yeah. It's crazy to see that. Well, dude, honestly, thank God it was the same race because if it was a black and a white guy or anybody like a minority and a white guy, it would have been... They would have turned it into a race. Oh my God, it would have turned the whole thing into a race thing. It would have been the worst thing ever. And then they talk about the pressure for the Oscars to say or do something. Then they really would put on... Right now, I think they're trying to take the angle like I told you. It's just, oh, it's like a family barbecue and two friends or uncles got upset at each other and reacted and so maybe we're gonna crush it on the rock. Did you see what's his name offered them? 15 million each to fight? Oh, Jake Paul. I knew it. He's like, he's gonna be this generation's Don King. He is, yeah. He's gonna make so much money bartering and creating these deals. Well, have any of them though, I don't know if anyone's actually accepted any of his because he throws out like outlandish ones and I don't know if anybody has actually jumped on it and said, yes, they'll do it. So I mean, this is like the third one I've seen him put out there, like calling out that I'll pay X amount of dollars to see something and I haven't seen it. I can't see high level, A level celebrities doing this. I feel like that's a career destroying move, but I can see a lot of C level players and a lot of like, you know, social media people. Well, that's what we're seeing right now with social media. A lot of these, you know, I don't know what you, what, what, is that porn? That C list, that says anything. I mean, that's just, what's his real name? Dustin Diamond or? Yeah, it's, I think he's died now, I feel bad. If, if like you're like a super, like an Oscar award winning actor or actress, you are considered like an A list actor. So what is, what's like a, you know, 10 million followers on Instagram? What are you? Oh, jeez. What are you? Z? Like how do you get, how do you, what separates A list actors, B list? Like what is it that, that does that? And then where does, what it is now, because I think we all agree. We can't really call them an actor, right? Well, I think we all agree that social media is now, I mean, your kids, right? Your kids know YouTube stars more than they know big actors and actresses. It's obviously it's moving in that direction. So are we going to start ranking like Instagram and YouTube celebrities? That's a good question. It's going to be like, Oh sure, that's coming. A list YouTuber or whatever. Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah, cause again, like I had one the last time, like my kids don't know anything about either the, and it's Chris Rock and Will Smith. Those are huge celebrities. Yeah, they don't give a shit. They're like, what? Who cares? I know the only people who care. Where's Dan TDM? The only one. Whoever like guy that they watch on. Mr. B's Tube. Yeah. The only, the only, I'm not sure if these memes are all your 40 and a half. Actually, no, the memes. So my, my, my 16 year old son knows about it because of the memes. Okay. Is that the only reason why? That's why. Cause he don't know probably all the drama in their life and how G. He recognized Will Smith because he's seen movies with them, but it knows name, but the memes are flying. Wow. Talk about how crazy that is. It's, it's a dying, it's a completely dying industry. And I couldn't be happier because it really for a long time, they just preach and they get away with murder and they tell us what to do and they'd live totally different. I can't stand that. They might actually just have to focus on, you know, making better movies. Imagine that. Yeah. You know, speaking of celebrities, I felt a little bit like a celebrity yesterday doing a photo shoots professionally with Doug, you know? I always feel so. Sounds skipped out before you do the mud math. Hold on a second. I did, I did a whole bunch of stuff and then I had to take off. Can I say how much I hate that stuff, dude? I just don't, none of us, I think really like it. I think it just feels so. I think Justin kind of like it. Yeah, Justin does. I mean, out of the three of us, I'm probably like the coolest with it, right? Like, I don't, I just don't care. This is my thing. Like, yeah, put some on my face, you know, put some on my head. It feels weird to me. I, well, you know what though? So yesterday was the first time that I did the whole, like, the whole trifecta thing, right? So the, what is it, the deep cleanse thing that they have and then I did. So you actually used them and you filmed them? Yeah, so Doug took photos of me using each one of the Caldera products. And I actually, so I have half of my Caldera stuff is at home in the shower on my sink and then half is over here. And so I've actually never been completely honest, done it the way you're supposed to. Like one after another and to put on, dude, my skin felt, I did a little clip, dude. Like, and I got hella DMs for people like, wow, dude, your skin looks, like you can visibly see a difference. Yeah, that mud mask was a trip. Oh, and my face felt amazing from it. You guys are so amazing. Bro, I get it. You know what I'm saying? I gotta get it. Hold on, I said, what's the order? I didn't have my cucumbers, but you know. What's the order? So we started with the deep, which is their reviving mask. Okay. So that's the mask. Yeah, they put it all over their face. And then they rinsed that off. And the next thing they used was the clean slate to wash up the skin afterwards. And then finally you finished off with the oil. Yeah. With the serum. Yeah. I use the serum. And you would normally add, which I didn't have, I didn't have the cream to put over, go after to seal the oil, right? Isn't that how that works? Yeah, I think the way they listed out is their recommended protocol is to, I think, is it mornings you do the cream and then evening you do the oil. Okay. So I use the serum. That's the one thing that I use pretty consistently. And it's, like I said, I would never, in the past, I never put anything on my face because I have this natural, oily, Mediterranean, whatever, skin. So, you know. You just glow all the time. Between now and the next time we have a caldera commercial, I want you to do the whole thing. Just you can feel it. Yeah, I'll try it. Cause you have to. I mean, it really. So I've done the mask and you definitely can tell that it does something for sure. But I just use the serum and the reason what trips me out is I was reluctant because I already have oily skin. I'm gonna put oil on my oily skin. I'm gonna look like a grease ball. And it balances out my skin, actually. What it does is it makes it so that it's more balanced. So it's not just oil for dry or cause Justin's dry, it balances him out too. He tries fucked. Crack the desert over here. Crack the crack. He's a sponge. You know what I'm saying? Anyway, back to wine. All right, Adam. You brought up wine earlier. Since you missed my underhand pitch earlier on the wine. No, I wanted to. Try to set up our commercials hella good there. I just got back into wine. Honestly, I avoided wine forever. No, check this out. So public goods sells wine. Yeah, they sell them in six and 12 packs. I saw that. You could buy a six pack. You could buy a 12 pack. The variety six pack is 94 bucks. Not bad for a variety of six bottles of wine. The 12 pack is 170. So it's even better. But check this out. This is good shit. Their Pino is made in Italy. Their Malbec is made in France. The Rosé is made in France. And then the red blend is made in Chile. And I believe the Chardonnay is made in California. So like this is. No, it's international. I mean, Doug's probably the biggest wine I would all of us if I had to guess. Are you the bigger one? Probably. I'm the biggest wine. Now, what you just brought up is that each of those areas known for that specific type of wine. Is that right? Yes. Yeah, I would say so. Okay, so that's interesting. I'm not that nerdy about that. So I wonder if that's what they did, right? So they sourced the best type of wine in the most popular area for that hot table. Yeah, they've also sourced organic wines. Oh, that's a big deal. They're all organic. Organic. No added sulfides. Okay, so now I want to try it because the organic wine I've tasted, it tastes like shit. Just being honest. And do you guys get a reaction from where they add the wine that messes, it gives you like a histamine response? Is it the sulfides? Yeah, sulfides, sulfates, I'm not sure. See, that's that. So they don't add them to these wines. All that stuff, that's what gave me hangovers. Yeah, I don't think so. I mean, I don't know what is classified as an organic wine, what can or cannot be included. Well, I'm reading right now. I'm reading here that there's no added sulfides, which for some people, when they'll drink wine and they'll get like a histamine response. They also can't use like the pesticides and stuff on the sprays on the... Oh, really? Yeah, that's part of what makes it, I believe so. Yeah, I have sometimes a reaction to wines. There was a brand, so like a couple of years back, and I don't want to... I get a reaction to you. There was a organic wine, a popular organic wine that came after us to do advertising. And I remember we tried it and it was just... It was garbage. Yeah, it was terrible. Yeah, it was terrible. I mean, I wanted to be able to promote a organic, better choice, like a wine for our audience. But I'm like, if I don't like it, I can't. I'm not gonna want to do commercials about something that I think tastes like shit. Yeah, so... But I haven't had this, so we'll see. I'll try it out. It would be a great gift. Yeah, I'm like that with wine. So here's what's interesting. If you guys have been... Everybody's been to Europe here, right? Have you been to Europe, Justin? Yeah, just mainly the British Isles. Okay, so have you ever had wine in like Italy or France versus wine here? It doesn't affect you the same, and it's because they don't add the same shit. This is what I've read. They don't add the same stuff that tends to cause that histamine response. So I've noticed that wine can give me the worst... I mean, I know that... I noticed that about just eating and drinking Europe in general. Like I feel better. Foods that would normally kind of mess me up in the States. When I ate them in France, I didn't feel that way. I've heard that from grains too. Yes, yeah, like the pastas and all that. So I, although right now... Or a different type of... No, so I can react to gluten sometimes, depending on how my gut is. But even when my gut's feeling good, if I just keep pushing gluten, after a week of it, it'll mess me up. In Italy, when I went to Italy, this was years ago. And it was my gut wasn't doing very well. But I went there and I literally said, you know what, I'm just gonna just throw caution to the wind. I don't care. I'm not gonna work out. We were in a small town. The gym was closed for the summer, which was way inferior. It was stupid. So I went there and I had pasta all day long and it was delicious and bread. And I didn't react. And I couldn't figure out what the hell was going on. So I did some research. So here, what we do here, often with our wheat, is we use glyphocytes as a desiccant. I think that's the right term. Where we spray the glyphocytes on to dry the wheat. In Europe, they don't do that. In Europe, if they do that, they have to label it. So they don't do that. So they have the glyphosate load is much lower. We get hammered with glyphosates like from every angle here. We also use wheat here that's higher in gluten than the wheat that they use over there. Oh, really? I didn't know that. Cause gluten gives wheat, it's a protein and wheat that gives it. It's like a binder, right? It's more structured to it. Yes. So I noticed the same freaking thing. So explain to me, why, why do we use more? And that's what's the, what's the, makes it hardy, makes it last longer, produce more. And then the glyphosate, they spray on to your life and stuff like that. I think that's something along those lines. So the thing about Europe that is, okay, so we'll talk about Italy, for example, they have a long culture of food. And so they have these laws that protect regions, but the inadvertent, you know, kind of like the accidental, I guess side effect of that is it's harder for food manufacturers to add weird shit to food. So like if you get a particular type of cheese, like in Italy, they have laws that say, this type of cheese can only be made in this region. You can't make, if you make it somewhere else, you can't call it that type of cheese. Or this wine. That's how they are with wine. Pure cheese. Right. Yes. France will do the same thing. Isn't champagne only from one place? Yes. If you get it, if you buy it somewhere else, even if it's made exactly the same. Can't call it champagne. You can't call it champagne. Yeah. You have to call it something else. I thought that was really interesting. Bubble wine. So they do that, but the side effect of that is they stay closer to their original. Now that the other side effect is more expensive and less available, but the food is more closer to its original the way that they made it back in the day. Speaking of cheese, I'm so glad I can bring this up. Ethan was talking to me the other day about like he's been hanging out with his friends and they all have bikes and they kind of have created their own biker gang. Oh, yeah. He's like, I'm like, you got your biker gang. He's like, yeah, we're going to get jackets and do the whole thing. We're the cheese weasels. What? Cheese weasels. I'm on diet dude. I was like, who came up with that name? You know? I did. I'm just like, okay, you know, you understand I get roasted all the time for my obsession with cheese, right? Yeah. Cheese weasels. I thought that was a great name. I'm like, I'm like, I'll think about the logo. Bro, you got to make him a guest, dude. Yeah. You have to make him a guest. I'm like, I'll eat you guys some patches, you know, you guys mob together. Before you guys go for riding, one takes a bite of the block and you pass it around the group. You have to have a handshake. Do they have rivals yet? Let's ride boys. I know, yeah, they're gonna get them, you know, obviously. Dude, you ever hear about the gang names in like the 40s and 50s? They were weird like that. Yeah. Like the Jets. We're the Jets. We're the Jets and then they break out in songs. Oh, that's like all the musicals I've seen. What's that movie? West Side Story. I love it. Have you guys ever watched West Side Story? I don't think I've seen it all the way through. I've seen like parts of it. A lot of doo-wop in there. Such a Maria. Such a great movie. They remade that movie. It was okay. Not bad, but the original was one of the best. I'll combo the song for the Cheez Whizzes. But no, they had funny gang names and then later on gang names got real crazy and tough sounding. But yeah, back then it was silly. Hey, I saw the article that Jackie sent over about Elon Musk. Is that, do you think that's a real possibility? So he did a poll on Twitter. Yeah, you brought it up first, I know that. Yeah, so that's what's making the news, right? So he did a poll that said, do you think, something along the lines of, do you think that Twitter should make their algorithm open source so that everybody knows who's getting more, why some people get more views than others? Totally, love that. And of course, most people said yes. Which, you know what, I think that's brilliant. Of course. Because social media is under attack for being, like changing the rules and isolating certain groups. Well, if it was open source, I think it would be no problem. So he did that. Then people said, would you ever start your own or whatever he says, I'm seriously considering it. So starting his own social media. Anything he does, I'm following. I'm paying attention. That's the one guy. You have to love that he intentionally looks for markets just to disrupt. Yes, that is so cool. He's the master of disrupting. That's what's so cool to me. Like most people are thinking about like, oh, where can I make the most money? Where's the blue ocean? Like they're trying to think like that, which is smart to do that. But the fact that he has the confidence and the brilliance to go like, I'm gonna fuck that market up right there. Yeah, but like, they're doing it wrong. I'm gonna go in and just disrupt the shit out of it. I mean, let's talk about this. He does not have time. It's like all those other business, I mean, he's going to Mars. Like, did you listen to that podcast? No. Okay, so yeah, well, this was with Lex Freedman and I forget the lady's name, but she's an MIT professor there who has worked with NASA before and her whole family I think is astronauts, but very, very good podcast. They were kind of speculating what it would take to colonize Mars and this whole thing. I did not know that technically when Mars aligns with Earth, it only takes like six to nine months to get there, but then it takes three years total to get back because you have to go through orbit till it lines up again to get back to Earth. So round trip, you've got like three years. So every three years Mars is in a position to where it's close enough to Earth. Where it only takes six months. Yeah. Wow, that's interesting. Yeah, and what was really cool was they were talking about like self-organizing tiles and materials to make these massive structures. So they've already like, I have, again, I'm not gonna be into the science, but apparently they can like find each other and like organize and create these structures autonomously. You know the weirdest thing to me about the whole Mars thing is that, like let's imagine like all the bad things that could happen to this Earth because of how what we're doing to it and everything like that. Like imagine like the Warsaw, I still think of it as a better place than Mars. Yeah. Like there's the storms and the like you. It's right. Dude, I've said that. I know it's like the most inhospitable place you can go, right? It's like worse than Antarctica. It's worse than the deep ocean. Yeah. So I'm less interested, the science of going there and surviving there and building an atmosphere is cool. I think it's cool. But I'm less interested in that than the psychology of the people who are gonna go there and what it's gonna do to them. Have you read this test that they've done on astronauts to see what would happen if we sent them that far away to where just communicating with Earth could take days, let alone, you know, getting back with just three years. They've run tests and they find that what's likely to happen is that they'll start slowly not listening to commands on Earth and start slowly being like, just like colonists. It's no different than when colonists left, went to the New World from England. Eventually what do they do? Revolution, we want independence. Every single colony did that throughout the history of the world. Yeah. So you said- Okay, Mars will have their own thing, yeah, whatever. Right, yeah, have fun- There'll be a war. Yeah. Mars versus Earth. No, there will be a war, but I mean, so what? Go make your own rules on Mars. I mean, if you wanna go live there and go do that, here's my thought with it, the whole thing is that that is a goal for humanity to focus on something like that. It's so much more positive than all this geopolitical bullshit that we're going through right now. Like if we talk about something to create unity again amongst people and have an objective, I think that we need to focus more on getting Mars just for that fact. Dude, think of the ultimate way to start over. Oh, God, another bad relationship and I lost my job. You know what? You know, instead of moving to like another country, I'm going to Mars. I'm out of here. I'm like, what's up? I'm going to the planet. Airbnb over at Mars first. Yeah, seven or nine. I'm going to Mars first. Three years, I'll be back. So they haven't figured out how you could have like a kid in space yet. Why? Huh? Yeah, because of- Grabbing and diagramming. Yeah, like there's just so many complications with that. Even if you're on bottom? No, not creating. Oh, that's why I thought you meant. Oh, because we could create them. I mean, there are difficulties with that too and they kind of skimmed over that. I was like, I started leaning in, you know, like how does this work? Yeah. But they- Yeah, I guess gravity affects the whole process. Yeah, exactly. Oh, that makes sense. That makes sense. Because everything on Earth evolves with this type of gravity. The only way that we know how to create gravity so far is through centrifugal force. Yeah, so like until we figure that out, it's going to be really weird. I mean, have you guys read the accounts of the guy who was on the space station the longest and how long, like how fucked up his body was when he came back? Really weird. Well, yeah, I mean, you got like no bone density at that point. Is everything- But how long ago was that though? That was a while back, right? It took him, I think, a year for his body. I don't know how long did he- That was a long time ago. Oh, yeah, it was a while ago. Because since then, like they've, I mean, have you seen some of the cool stuff they have now, like the way they strength train and the, I mean, I think they're doing things to, already to combat that, right? Yeah, they have a lot more cool tools available for fitness and things, but also what, one other point that I thought was interesting was they're trying to recruit like more artists to be involved with the whole Mars thing because they want to bring in a different perspective and all this stuff like, they've actually had students create a musical instrument that can only be played in, they don't call it anti, or zero gravity, they call it like minimal gravity or whatever because there's nothing is like without like- I don't know why, but- Doug just pulled up how much gravity actually is. It's 0.375, that of Earth. Yeah, so Ted- Did you get benched like more than twice as much? Hey, when you said an instrument, a Mars, they're gonna create like a Martian instrument. I don't know, I just immediately thought of that, the, the bar scene in Star Wars. Oh yeah. You know, we don't know. And of course they, they, I have no idea how it works, but I'm like really interested in, in what, how that works and everything. The other thing was the physics, right? In terms of like, if you're gonna play sports and everything, you know how you have that like natural kind of curve because of gravity. Oh yeah, football field's gonna have to be way longer. So you, well, it's like, it's more, you gotta think more like, how you throw darts or like throwing something, it's gonna go directly in line with, with however you move it. So you have to think more in like straight lines than you do like with the arc. Football's gonna be like five pounds over there. Weird to play sports up there. Yeah. Oh yeah. That'd be cool. I like that, I like that a lot. I have, so this is, I mean, moving us from science over to business, cause I read an article that I thought was really interesting. Any guesses? First of all, like, do you guys, do you guys believe that we have companies that have existed for 150 years or more? Oh, very few. Yes, very few. Very few if any. Okay, so we do. These are like oil companies? We do have companies that have been around for over 150 years and any guesses on how many? It's gotta be doing over under with you guys. Oh, Justin will do his 150. No, I'd say less than five. Five or less. I'll take 12. 540. Really? I win. Yeah, that's impressive, right? Yeah. 540 companies that have been. Name some of them. Oh, I don't know. You can pull up, pull up Sears and Roebuck. Allianz Life, which a German life insurance company has been around for like 160 years. Oh, really? Yeah. There's some, I was looking through the top 25 and there's a couple on there that you'll recognize. Coca-Cola's not that old? No, no, not that old. You'll recognize some names. I recognize, off the top of my head, I read the article a few days ago so I don't remember all of them, but there was some brands on there that was like, oh, okay, I know that brand. But then there's a lot that I have no idea. I just, but I think that's interesting, right? A company that's been around for that long and you don't even know and just think of how strong it has to be. Are many of them like just small companies? Jim Beam. No. Yeah, Jim Beam. Are you serious? Yeah, Jim Beam. King Arthur Baking Company. Go deeper than eight, because when you started, when I started getting down to 15, 20, that range is where I really started to recognize more names. So you guys will definitely recognize some of the names, but yeah, right, interesting that they, to last that long. I saw Baker's Chocolate, never heard of that before. J.P. Morgan. Yeah, there you go. J.P. Morgan. Obviously. Lizard people. DuPont. I can't do a lot. More lizard people. That font size. Wait a minute. These are all lizard people companies. Colgate. Yeah. Remington Ammunition. Oh yeah. Brooks Brothers. Macy's. All these. Yeah, a lot of companies actually. What did they brush your teeth with? What was in Colgate 150 years ago? I wonder. Coal. It's all the wackiest. It's a race. It seems to be working so well. I don't know why. That was probably heroin. Now you ever look at it, you ever look at old. You feel real good when you're done. You ever look at old like medicines from back in the day. There was an old cough syrup bottle I saw and had fucking heroin and cocaine in it. It was for kids. I don't know. I give it to Timmy. It sounds a lot more fun back then, but also the work was way harder. So, you know, it kind of offsets. Makes sense. What's the opiate one that was so lottle? What's the famous opiate that's been around forever that they used to give? Opium. Yeah, opium. Is it what's it opium? Was that the name of it? That's the original one. I thought it was lotum. Lottium or lotum? Oh, I don't know. Not sure. You know, that was like a really popular. That's all. That's all it is. It's just... Justin, you got a headache. You should do some cocaine. Yeah. I agree. That's how I did it. That will definitely help. You lost your foot, Adam. You're sprinkling some heroin on it. You'll feel better. Imagine though how good of a company you have to be to have been around 150 years though and to continue to reinvent yourself. That's crazy. To be around even today. That's wild. I mean, I saw a stat the other day that the, you know, the S&P 500 within like 50 years, like 80 something or 90% of it. More than Buffett's like invested in all of them. Yeah, for sure. Actually, I'm sure he's... He probably owns all of those ones. More lizard people. Hey, real quick. Look, if you eat a low carb diet or you just don't eat a lot of heavily processed foods and you work out, chances are you're not getting enough sodium. No joke. That's true for a lot of people. And signs of low sodium, you can't get a good pump. You're weaker. You got less energy. If you're low carb, you may get that keto flu, which actually usually is low sodium. You got to try LMNT. LMNT is an electrolyte powder. It tastes good, no artificial flavors. So it's got all the electrolytes, but it has the appropriate levels of sodium. I love this product. When I first saw it, I thought to myself, what's the big deal? It's electrolyte powder. I've tried those a million times. This is different. I got great pumps and performance in the gym from their product. So much so that we actually invested in the company. That's how much we like LMNT. So go try them out. And actually right now you'll get a free sample pack. So you don't have to buy any. You can try it out for free and see what I'm talking about. If you're interested, head over to MAPS, excuse me, mindpumppartners.com and click on LMNT and get yourself that free sample pack. Just pay shipping. All right, here comes the rest of the show. Our first caller is Angelina from California. Angelina, how can we help you? Hi, this is so exciting. Yeah, so I'm Angelina. I am a group fitness instructor and a fairly new personal trainer. I just received my personal training certification last year in September. And as you guys know, these certifications don't really do anything for you besides give you this label that allows you to practice. And honestly, the real learning comes after the fact. And honestly, I've had the most experience through teaching and experience with my clients and watching videos about correct form, following the right people. And honestly, mindpump has taught me a lot. I'm really grateful for you guys and I really value your expertise. And it's been really awesome because I'm a full-time student and trying to work and trying to grow my business and to listen to you guys on my commutes and to listen to you guys during my workouts, it's been really helpful. And I feel like I'm learning constantly. So thank you, that was my long way of saying thank you. But basically, so I just quit my commercial gym jobs and I am working at a private gym. I'm trying to hone in on my personal training. And as a personal trainer, I really care about teaching my clients proper function and that mind to muscle connection. I really love to focus on that. And one of the movements I have been really struggling with myself and with teaching is deadlifts. And honestly, I feel like there's so much conflicting information out there about deadlifts and the different types. And I would love for you guys to help break it down for me. So I kind of wrote like a question rant in but I'm gonna just kind of go and you can stop me. But basically, so one of the biggest things is I'm struggling between Romanian deadlifts and straight leg deadlifts. I feel like there's a lot of confusion out there. I used to set the bar down every single time with my straight leg deadlifts but I've seen that they're both supposed to hover but then some people say no, set it down every time with your straight leg deadlifts. And so I'm wondering, do you hover with both? And should I be going all the way down or only to my range of motion? Because it's so weird because I personally, I can't stop feeling pain in my lower back with just RDLs but I don't feel them at all with my straight leg deadlifts. So I wanna kind of break down like what they're both working and movement pattern. Let's break that down before we move on to all the rest of them because I know you're gonna list off all of them. Sal communicates this really well when he talks about like, you can do any movement so long as you move safely, right? So there's people that have the flexibility to do a stiff leg deadlift where they take the bar all the way down to the ground. Most people don't, the most people by the time they get that bar close to the ground, the low back will start to round and so that's what really matters. And so that's first and foremost, right? So if you're somebody who can do a stiff leg a deadlift and you can move the bar all the way down the ground and put it at rest, you can do that. Also, they become a little bit different exercises if you keep the barbell hovering versus setting it down, right? So if you're doing like a traditional deadlift where you set the bar down, there's a lot more emphasis on the concentric portion of the exercise, right? The pulling it up and then you're kind of letting the bar drop all the way back down to the ground. So it's just, they're all valuable. They're all focusing on different things. Different intent for each one. And there's not like this, this is wrong, this is right. It's, you know, traditionally you do an RDL and you don't let the barbell go all the way to the ground but if you were somebody who had that flexibility it doesn't mean that you can't do that. It just changes the exercise a little bit, right? If I have to hover and I can't set it down and I'm doing five to six reps I'm consistently keeping tension back on my hamstrings and my glutes, right? Whereas if I set the bar down I get that moment of rest and then the focus is more on the lifting the bar up and not so much on the lowering the weight. So you kind of change the movement. Yeah, Angelina with the deadlifts. First off, a couple of things. I think this will help too with deadlifts in general. Generally don't look at deadlifts as a body part or muscle specific exercise. They just don't lend themselves very well to that. Now, of course, a rear, you know a Romanian deadlift or stiff legged deadlift you could say is a hamstring and glute exercise and that's true, but I don't like to focus on them like I would a more isolation exercise. When it comes to deadlifts I am almost always teaching my clients to perfect the technique in the form and not worry about where which muscle group we're feeling it in. Now, of course, that doesn't mean you ignore if you feel something wrong but it's really about the movement more than anything and they just work better that way. As far as the Romanian deadlift and stiff legged deadlift the key is that the spine stays in a fixed position. Okay, so you get in a neutral spine you bend at the hips, right? So it's hip, flexion and extension, not lumbar and the spine stays fixed and if the spine can continue to stay fixed and you hit the floor, that's fine. If the spine starts to flex around at the bottom then yeah, you went past the range of motion that you own, so that's what you want. So if you can go all the way down very few people can do that by the way with really, really good spine positioning but if you can, then that's totally fine to go all the way to the ground. Now, if you wanna get a client who can't do that but you'd like them to set the weight down as well so you can reset between every rep which is totally fine then what you would do is you would have them place the weights on blocks or on a bench so you would raise the floor essentially so that they can put the weight down, reset their position I would do this all the time with clients because that spine position is so hard to maintain for some people that I would have them set the weight down on a bench or blocks, we would pause, reset our position. I always reset my position. Especially when it gets heavier it's difficult like with the hover I feel like I can, when I'm setting it down I feel like I can lift so much heavier than when I'm hovering. Because you're resetting. The risk goes way up, yeah. Right, exactly. The essential part, yeah. And control, so yeah. In terms of like beginner to intermediate I always suggest, you know, to reset, yeah. Yeah, that's what I would do. And then you said with the Romanian deadlift do you feel more low back pain than a stiff legged? Yeah, it's so weird. I feel like, I think because I'm in my head about. There's movement in the spine, that's what's happening. Yeah, well, well, here's what's happening. It's so weird though because with my straight like deadlift I'm not feeling my lower back at all and I feel like my range of motion is like I'm also Pilates instructor and I feel like I have very flexible hips and I feel like my range of motion is great with my straight leg deadlifts. But I think with my Romanian deadlifts I'm really focusing on like, I wanna feel it in my glutes and I'm not feeling it in my glutes and then I just start to feel this lower back pain. Here's what's probably happening. I'd have to watch your form but I'm gonna make an educated guess that you're overarching your spine with the Romanian deadlift. Yeah, I think that might be what it is because I'm not, I'm watching videos and I'm like, I'm not rounding my lower spine because I feel like that's the common thing. That's why you would feel lower back pain but I'm not seeing around. It might be that I'm really trying to focus on like sticking my glutes out because that's what people say to do. Yes, you're arching the hell out of your low back to stick the butt back. It's one or two. I would say it's either that. My guess was gonna be that there's just movement in the lumbar spine. So when you're in a soft bend in the knee, so one of the benefits I feel of doing a stiff leg is you can kind of lock the, you lock the body in a position. The knees are locked out, the hips, you can lock out and all you're focusing on is sliding the hips back as you drop down. Where when you're in an RDL, you have kind of this soft bend in the knees. And so there's, you're kind of concentrated on keeping them in that fixed position and you can easily go up or down. And sometimes what that'll cause is even though you're not rounding at the low back, there's movement in the low back and so that, you know, you feeling it in the low back and you're loading the bar, you might just be feeling it in that. So it's either what Sal is saying, you're overarching, which you know, test that out by, you know, by. I'm gonna guess that you're not, you're not talking about feeling like you're a muscle pump in your low back, but you feel like it's not, it's kind of not good. Like it feels like your spine is shearing a little bit. Okay, you're overarching. You're 100% overarching. You don't get that from movement in the spine. Movement in the spine. That'll give you a burning sensation of a pump in your low back. Like the muscles are tired. And the biomechanics of a stiff leg at deadlift actually place more load on the muscles of the spine, the surrounding spine, than a rear Romanian. What's happening with you, which is common with people who are strong and are trying to focus on the glutes is what they do is they stick, they really arch the back. They over arch the back. So what you wanna do is I don't want you to over arch the back. I want you to go ahead and arch your back like you normally do, then bring it more to neutral and then brace the hell out of your core and then focus on your hips and you won't feel it in your spine anymore. I think it's because like I was saying, I'm really trying to differentiate the two movements for myself because I wasn't doing Romanian deadlifts for so long. I was just doing straight leg deadlifts. And I feel like I had even clients wanting to do Romanian deadlifts. And then I felt like, okay, I need to start doing this myself and really understand. And all of a sudden I had to just drop the weight so much lower because it was hurting to like do that hover and like I was saying. No, brace your core really hard when you do it. That'll offset the arch in your low back. That'll help fix that. And then as far as the other deadlifts are concerned, because I see your question, you're talking about sumo versus conventional. Two different exercises is how I would, I know they're both called deadlifts. And yes, you could do one and not the other, but that doesn't mean that they're totally replace each other. I would consider them just different exercises. They're both hip dominant, obviously posture chain conventional, you're gonna get more back and sumo, you'll get more hips. They're all different, but I never program any pair of them in the same workout. So they are very different and there's different focuses on it, but I would never do like a Romanian deadlift and then also a sumo deadlift in the same workout. It's like, I would just, and I personally, like when I coach clients, I like to do a block of training, meaning a few weeks focusing on one of those. Like so we're gonna do RDLs the next four times when we get to what I normally would do deadlifting. And then after we've done it RDLs for a while, it's like, okay, let's transition in, didn't teach sumos. Now I'm gonna do sumos for a month of training your deadlifts. And so utilize all of them because I think they all have tremendous value. And then maybe the only time I would put more focus on one or the other, if there's very specific things that the person's working on. Like what I love about a sumo deadlift, I think it's a great butt builder because you're in more of a seated position like a squat, you get more glute activation and then because the knees are opened up, you get focus on the glute need. Yeah, I wanted to ask about that because I feel like there's confusing information about if a sumo deadlift does really work your glutes because some people, some professionals out there are saying like it's working the adductors more than it's working your glutes. And I feel, I feel it in my glutes and I would think that but then some professionals are out there like saying, no, don't use this on glute day. It's not actually working your glutes. So I wanted your guys to think about that. To me, all that's irrelevant. Okay. In terms of the overall value of both of those specific exercises, sumo and conventional, we're trying to master the movement and the mechanics and get the body to produce as much force as possible. There's not a lot of exercises that allow you to drive and control that much force and to do that over once. And so if you can focus primarily on just like proper form technique and really bracing the body and getting everything as live and active as possible, all of that is going to happen as a byproduct. Yeah. Not only that, but a lot of most people or most girls that I'm training that want to develop their butt can sumo deadlift more than they can conventional RDL or stiff legged. So also the, and also squat. So it's one of the best ways to heavy load somebody in it focused on the hip complex that they wouldn't be able to do. So they're not going to squat, they're probably not going to squat 225 but I could get a lot of girls to be able to sumo deadlift 225. Exactly. And that the benefits of that to Justin's point instead of like really focusing on a single muscle is incredible. So use them all, they're all different. I would never pair them together. And unless I had a client who had a very specific reason why that we're doing what like obviously if someone's competing, we want to get good at one technique. You know, and we're going to always do sumo or always going to do conventional whichever one they lean towards. But for the general population just getting your clients strong, building muscle, shaping their butt. I mean, I'm going to use all the variations. Right. I think I'm like, have been really in the headspace of programming for muscle groups and through listening to your guys podcast. I've learned the value in full body workouts, right? And programming in different ways. So I'm trying to sort of transition to that space. Even with myself, but I gotta learn more. That's a good point Angelina because in a full body workout, I'm not thinking what muscle group does deadlifts work? Yeah. Right. I start my workout with deadlifts because I'm going to work everything anyway, right? Right. But the body part specific workouts, it can get a little, it can get a little funny and people are weird about where they would place a specific, very valuable exercise. And sometimes they avoid them completely just because of that. Do you have any of our programs right now? No, I don't. I am fairly new listener. It's been about two months and I definitely, I just started to cut for myself personally and it's hard. What do you guys say? What would you say, strong or anabolic is probably one of the best, for considering we're talking about deadlifting, which one has the most variations that we have? Or both of them? I mean, power lift too would be good. Power lift, yeah. I mean, we don't do variations in that though. No, it's just really hyper focused on. It's just hyper focused on. I love training for hypertrophy and I love training my clients for hypertrophy. That's... Go aesthetic. Aesthetic with maybe like the build or bundles that's what we have going on right now. We'll send you maps, you've been working out for a while, right Angelina? Yeah, let's go man. We're gonna send you maps, Aesthetic, follow the program and then you'll learn some things from or you'll pick some things up from it that I think you can apply to. Can you throw her, Doug, the either the butt mod or the butt builder version of that? So she has all of that since I'm assuming that's probably some of the questions are around for that. And I think we have more variations of the deadlift with that bundle. What big box gym did you leave, by the way? Crunch. Crunch Fitness. And now what, you're in a small studio now? Now I'm in a small private gym called Rec Shop Training and I'm super excited about it. What crunch were you in? You're in California? I'm in California. I was teaching in Chino and Diamond Bar. Okay. I was teaching for about two years and I just felt like I, I'm trying, I'm going to grad school. I'm graduating in June and I need to pay my way through grad school. I need to start making more money than commercial gyms can offer me. And I felt like I'm a good instructor so I need to move to a gym that's really going to value me, to be honest. As long as you can get clients, that's the hard part about private gyms. I'm just getting like a little waiting list right now and when it's private gyms, it's sort of different where you have to like pay, right, to teach there. And so I'm trying to gather a group of people so I know that I can really like start my business there. I was teaching out of my garage because I have a home gym and I feel like now I want to transition to a more like professional space. Awesome. Well, good luck. Good for you. I hope you crush it. And if you have any questions, send us an email but we'll give you a Maps Aesthetic and the Butt Builder combo with that, okay? Great, thank you. I really appreciate it. No problem. Thank you for taking my question and this is super cool. And have a great day, you guys. You got it, you too. Thank you. I know it was just the very end of that conversation but it's such a common misbelief, right, that leaving to go private, you're going to make so much money. I can count on one hand. You can make more money but there's one big block in front of that. I can count on one hand, okay? I've trained. That was one of those. Hired, trained, developed, coached, trainers, most of my career. So hundreds have worked underneath me at one point like over the course of 10 years. And I can count on one hand how many trainers left to go make more money. And even- But you mean that actually succeeded? Yeah. Is what you're saying? Yeah, that made more than what they made working for me. Yes, yes. Working in a big box gym where there's, yeah, per hour, they all made more money. Per hour, you can go raise your rate and you get to collect all of it. But you go from training seven people a day to train two. That's right. Yeah. And it's really, really tough to leave and go do that. It's just, I think we, especially at gym, like crunch, crunch, 24, lifetime fitness. It's a sea, it's literally a sea of potential clients. I mean, and this is what people don't realize. Yeah. As a trainer, walking into a very busy big box gym where you're looking at at any given moment, 30 to 100 people who don't have a trainer. Like, I used to do this to people all the time. It's efficient and barrel. Oh, I used to do this to my trainers all the time. I'd walk the floor and they'd come back with three clients. And you, in a private studio, you don't have, you have to go outside of the studio. You have to go out to the grocery store, into the Starbucks and you gotta do more. By the way, the ones that actually were able to go do that, like Justin, were already crushing 80 to $100,000 a year as a- Completely tapped out. Yeah. Exactly. They were already maxing out. They were already getting paid top dollar inside. And to me, that's what the conversation I always had with these trainers was like, listen, I'm all for supporting you, building your own business. But let me just give you a little bit of advice. First, max yourself out in a place like this where people are giving you leads. Like, you don't even realize how much value there is into a gym, like a crunch, that's getting anywhere between 1,000 to 2,000 workouts every single day inside that commercial gym. And at all times, there's 25 to 100 and something people on the floor, which are opportunities and leads for you. And then you go to a private gym where there's, you know, 10, 15 trainers working at, everyone that's working out there are all with trainers. So there are no leads at that gym and you have to go find that. It's just, they don't think they think about that. If you're not the top selling trainer in your big box gym and you don't have, and you fear walking up to people, you're screwed, you gotta be number one in that gym and not be afraid of approaching people. Be obsessively driven to, yeah. It's a lot more difficult, but like learning about your own business and how you're gonna market yourself and how you're gonna handle like all of the accounting and everything else. If you're ready for that, like it's a great transition. And you definitely can make an awesome career out of it, but it's definitely weeds a lot of people out. Well, and as far as the deadlift portion, which is really what you called for, this is another part of our space, which annoys me, like everybody wanting to, cause she brings up how there's professionals in our space that say that, well, that doesn't work this and that's more of this. I get so annoyed by that stuff. So why? Because it's not that important, like what you guys kept. You know who's saying that? It's all the biomechanic, non-coach, non-trainer specialists. So they look at the biomechanics. All the nerds that don't go past 90 degrees. Who are the same people that say the conventional deadlift isn't a back exercise or doesn't really work back? Sumo deadlift doesn't develop the glutes at all. I'll tell you right now, that was one of the best secret weapons I ever figured out as a coach and trainer was watching how much that did develop glutes was incorporating that exercise. So yeah, stupid points that these influencers and professionals are trying to make, just to get attention, you know, is to make that debate. Our next caller is Cassie from England. Hey Cassie, how can we help you? Hi guys, nice to meet you all. I've been listening to your show from quite early on. So I'm excited to meet you. Thank you. All right, nice to meet you. So I'm just gonna read my question so I don't get flustered here. So you've helped me pass a lot of my body image issue, struggles with food and dieting, training, all that. But now my main issue is that I'm stuck on trying to get my body exactly how I want it really, specifically my arms. I trained like a power lifter for many years as my brother was a competitive power lifter. So he trained me. I do have a strong upper body and I don't feel like I have to train a lot on my upper body to get strong. But I do feel like my arms are big. So I know if I lean out, I would probably get smaller and maybe show more of the muscle but I sort of at the minute don't feel like I could wear anything really feminine because I feel like my arms are kind of proportion and that they do build easily. So during the pandemic, I stepped away from the power lifting and I set up at home, ran maps, anabolic and then went back in the gym, jumped to aesthetic. I heard your recommendation about performance. So I went back and did performance and then now I'm currently running aesthetic again. But my question really is if I want my arms to get smaller as I've tried to maybe cook, should I be lifting my biceps and triceps as much as like what's in aesthetic or should I maybe not be focusing on my arms? Should I maybe cook the amount of sets or should I just be sticking to compound lifts only or do I actually need to focus on my arms more? Yeah, no, these are good questions. Do you know like how lean you are or what body fat percentage you're at? So I went to the Arnold Classic in October and then I did like a in body scuba thing and I think it was around 23% but I know that they are very accurate. So I don't 100% know. Okay, well 23% not bad at all. I was gonna say one of the best ways to shrink anything is to get leaner. If you dropped a few percent body fat, you would get smaller overall. As far as your arms are concerned, yeah, you can totally avoid direct arm work. So in maps aesthetic, when you're looking at the program you can do all the exercises and then when it gets to biceps and triceps, just don't do those exercises. They're gonna get enough work from the compound lifts that you're gonna maintain strength and stability because I never like to encourage people to purposely get weak or lose stability. That's not gonna really happen too much because you're still doing, you know, pressing and pulling and that kind of stuff. I would just avoid the direct arm work and then on your focus session days, you know, add exercises for areas of your body that you wanna, you know, develop even further. And then in simultaneously getting leaner will give you probably more of the shape and size that you're looking for as well. And then what do you guys think about having her focus on, you know, cause obviously there's gonna be a, you know, a week's time, there's a bunch of different places where there's gonna be arm work, especially when you include also focus sessions. So this is an example of where, and this is why the assessment portion of training is so important when you first start a client and you see where we have any sort of imbalances or we have limited range of motion. So as a coach, I would now program, okay, wherever it says bicep or tricep, we're gonna get down and do your combat stretch or we're gonna get down and we're gonna do your 90-90 to program in good mobility work that you probably, cause everybody has something that they probably need to work on in regards to mobility. And so here's an example of where I've got a client who we don't wanna grow or develop our arms anymore, we're fine, we're at but I wanna program something else instead of doing what I think most people do, which is they go, oh, okay, I'm gonna do more glute stuff now or I'm gonna do more shoulder stuff now. And there's plenty of that already in the program and you don't need to add anything like that. But there's tremendous benefit right here to focusing on a mobility exercise that you probably could do more of. Yeah, I'm always trying to find ways to incorporate it so it is something that clients will stick with. So if that's gonna be the case in this instance, I think that would be valuable to replace that with certain mobility moves that you know you could improve upon in terms of range of motion for different joints or just avoiding pain in general from the compound lifts. Yeah, and Cassie, now I don't know you but I'm gonna make a generalization in terms of body fat storage. Women store more body fat in the arms than men do. So when a guy will gain weight, he typically will gain it in his trunk, especially in the front part of his trunk, his abdomen area, whereas women will gain it in the lower part of their body and in their upper body, they tend to gain it in their arms or in the triceps in particular. So if that's you, if you notice that when you gain body fat, you tend to gain body fat in your arms, then dropping a few, because now you're at 23%, so low 20s, as you start to get closer to like 19, 18%, those harder to lose areas are gonna start to burn body fat. So I've said this before, the first place you gain is the last place that you lose it. You're at the point now where you're, the low 20 is a great body fat percentage to be at, it's, you can be athletic, it's not super ripped, it's easy to maintain, but as you go lower and lower, especially once you get down to the high teens, 18, 19% body fat, then you'll see those, the areas that you may be genetically pre-expositioned to gain, you'll start to see it come off there. So I would do a cut, so long as your calories okay, I haven't asked you any diet questions, so long as your metabolism is doing good and you've got good calories and you feel good, I would do a cut and then I would avoid direct arm work, and then the guys made a great suggestion, you could replace the arm work with mobility work, so you're still, you're doing something instead of just doing nothing, and the mobility works out tremendous. Awesome, congratulations, I'm sure there's a lot of people on here that are jealous of your arm gain. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I think that's the issue, I haven't gotten embarrassed in the gym. Cassie, Cassie, do you have maps prime by chance? I do have prime, yeah, I have prime. So yeah, here's a great opportunity for whenever, I'm sure you did prime and I'm sure there's some areas that you might not have passed and failed, take some of the movements that are in there and that's where I would insert them into your programming. Yeah, what part of England are you from by the way? Huddersfield in West Yorkshire. Okay. It's like the North kind of. Yeah, good deal. My wife's family's from England and I forgot what part. I'll tell her, I'll talk to somebody from that area. And I do like training for strength as well and I like doing, I don't like doing biceps, but I like doing tricep dips and that's obviously probably gonna imbalance my arms, I imagine. Yeah, not a lot. I mean, you're still doing pulling stuff, you're still rowing and pull downs and stuff like that. You wanna do extra tricep work, that's totally fine. Especially things like dips. Yeah, dips are great. You're fine. That's range of motion. Yeah, so that's a valuable exercise. Yeah, you're totally fine. Okay, cool. All right, thank you very much. Cassie, I know you said you already have Prime, do you have Prime Pro? Cause that's got some more advanced mobility movements. I don't have Prime Pro. All right, we're gonna send that over to you, all right? Oh, perfect, thank you. We're gonna mail it all the way over to England. Thank you. Thank you, Cassie. Hey, thanks for calling in. Carry your pigeons. All right, thank you very much. Thank you. Thanks guys. Bye. I'm glad, Sal, you brought up the point about body fat work, cause here's something that's- It's just more common with women. I feel like I'm getting too big. Usually it's a body fat thing, you know? Yeah, no, she may have great arms. And here's a thing where I think that's why I'm glad you brought that up is sometimes that's just it. They just store more body fat in that area. And then they wanna avoid it cause they feel like it's already thick and I don't wanna get any bigger there. And if that's the case, then I actually wouldn't want my client to stop doing buys and tries. This is what's hard about doing this over the phone. But it's okay. That's right, no, no, no, 100%. It's not like we're avoiding back work. Yeah, no, no. And yeah, if you're gonna drop anything off, she's getting bicep work through all the other pulling movements, so it's not a big deal. But this is where it's hard on the podcast cause I don't see her, I don't train her, we're not working together. If I was her coach, I would be able to go like, you're fine, we just need to lean out. Plus you have a relationship with her, we know. That's not muscle. I think you're okay. I think the muscle, once we get lean, you'll be happy. That's right. With women, here's the deal. Very rarely are they actually too big from a muscle perspective. If they are, That's my guess. If they are, it's rare, but if they are, here's the two body parts where it's 99.9% of the time, the issue. Number one, calves. Women can and have had calves that my wife is like. My wife's calves are, she's got bodybuilder calves. She doesn't work them and she never wants to work them. Luckily she has small ankles, so it looks real good. But if she trained her calves, they would blow up, so I would totally get that. The second one may be legs. And that's it. I have yet to meet a woman ever that literally got arms that were too muscular. I've seen some arms that were too muscular before. Traps, yeah, traps. But that's because any traps women like. They don't like any development of the trap. That's the thing, I don't want any definition. Yeah, but getting leaner is usually the thing that you need to do, yeah. Our next caller is Michael from Canada. What's up Michael, how can we help you? Hey guys, thanks so much for taking my call. So my question basically boils down to asking your advice on how realistic my fitness goals are and then what sort of program I would kind of look at to achieve those goals. So I'm 45 years old. I have been a basketball player my whole life. All of my workouts in my teens, my 20s, my 30s were always based on sort of explosiveness. So all I really cared about was like my speed, agility, vertical lead, that kind of stuff. As you can imagine over the last 10 to 15 years my athleticism has decreased. And I wanted your advice on how to calculate the risk reward kind of balance or calculation when it comes to workouts designed for increasing that kind of athleticism. So long-term, like I'm still hoping to continue playing basketball for at least say another 10 years or so. And I have like the work ethic and the tools to still be like one of the more athletic middle-aged guys out there. But I kind of wanted to know, is it worth it to still pursue that kind of athletic goal at my age? Or is it time to kind of check my ego and start focusing on maintenance, longevity, that kind of stuff. This one hits me right. This hits me in the feels so hard, bro. You have no idea. This is a good question because this is a conversation I have with Katrina a lot. I don't even tell the guys this stuff. Like I wrestle with this like every fucking day. Like I miss basketball like. Yeah, we don't know. We don't need to talk too much about it. They don't care, right? So, but I literally like what you're wrestling with is something that I'm in the middle of still wrestling with right now. And the reason why I'm not playing ball is, and hopefully this is not what is gonna happen to you because you just, you pointed out the thing that I know. I'm not disciplined enough right now to train in the gym like a person who is trying to protect their body with basketball. I'm still training to look a certain way and feel like that's kind of where my head is. Plus you stopped for a while, right? Yeah, oh yeah. He's still going. Yeah, so to me, that's really the, you could play basketball till you're 70. But if you, it's so long as you put the work in to take care of the body so that you don't get hurt while you're playing on the court and that is the main thing. Like if you were doing that. Preservation. That's right. If you were, and boy does it make it, when we get 40 plus, it really, really, when we were 20 and I know you know this, you probably didn't have to stretch, you didn't have to do a movie, you didn't have to do anything to get on the court and go play for three hours straight and be completely fine. I've learned the hard way in my late 30s of rolling level three sprains in both ankles, tearing an ACL, MCL. Like I've had injury after injury and I know it's because I've built up a physique that's more conducive to lifting heavy weight than it is to playing on the court. So that answers that right there. We'll get into the programming piece, but you know, so long as you put the work in the gym, you can play ball as long as you want. Just to add to that, like generally, everything has to be a lot more deliberate and intentional now. And so it, you can get away with a lot more obviously, like with your youthful body. And so, you know, prep and priming and all those things that we talk about all the time, like I'm stressing this so much. I'm trying to get this mindset to be adopted by the youth and the younger you are and you start really kind of incorporating these type of rituals, the better. The longer you're gonna have the abilities and they're gonna last longer to where we avoid the pain and the stress and areas that we don't want. So your whole thing is to make sure you have strength support and to have that kind of stability around your joints. So the mobility emphasis, I can't stress enough. And on top of that, it's really about like maintaining strength. So it's less about like trying to, you know, crush PRs and trying to get, you know, super strong. And it's more about, you know, movement in general and quality of movement and intentional movement. And so it's a completely different type of pursuit. Yeah, Michael, something you said about, you know, should I check my ego? I wanna be very clear. That's something that's smart and should be a priority for anybody in the gym is checking your ego. Cause that's always what tends to be the problem. Regardless of your age, as far as your workouts are concerned. You see what he's doing up there? This is really interesting. You'll know, I'm gonna go to what he was saying and we could talk more specifically, but. So this is a, what I'm about to say is gonna make a huge difference in your performance. Okay, cause I know you're talking about how you hurt or how you don't wanna get hurt and that kind of stuff but I'm gonna talk about your performance. When you're young, my, as a trainer, depending on if you're in season or off season, but generally speaking, I'm trying to push and improve performance and doing that will make you perform better as an athlete. As you get older with lots of experience, playing basketball, you've reached certain peaks of performance, you know, over your lifetime. I'm gonna get better performance at you by not focusing on pushing your performance but rather by focusing on protecting your joints and your mobility. So that's a different mentality. Whereas, you know, 15 years ago you go to the gym, you're like, I need to get stronger. I wanna get faster. I wanna jump higher. Today, if you wanna get faster, if you wanna jump higher and get stronger, don't focus on getting faster, jumping higher, getting stronger. Focus on protecting your mobility and your joints and that will get you the performance. So it's a different mentality when you go to the gym. That's it. So if you go to the gym, regardless of what you do and you think to yourself, what can I do to protect my mobility? What can I, what are the muscle imbalances and movement issues I have? What are my mobility issues? How can I make my body feel better? That's gonna give you better performance than going to try to get stronger and get faster and to jump higher. Let me ask you a question. So if you're gonna compare yourself to your 20-year-old self to where you're at now, you know, how often do you sit and what does your day-to-day schedule look like in terms of the difference of availability of movement and how much you would move throughout the day versus now? So if I had to compare in my 20s I was working more of a desk job. Today I'm working from home a lot more. So that actually gives me a lot more chances to go break it up over a walk, do a little bit of yoga in the middle of the day, that kind of stuff. So I'm actually doing a better job of taking care of those kinds of things now than I did 20 years ago. Well, that's great. I was expecting the opposite. I mean, I love, you see what he's got up there, what he's doing. The only real tweak I might make is like you're following like a random yoga YouTube. I would be more specific to mobility moves that are gonna benefit you and to Sal's point of protecting you on the court, which is like lateral stuff, rotational stuff. Foot strength, ankles are huge. Dicelloration, foot, ankle. So instead of doing like a generic yoga class, which there's nothing wrong with that, but because you have specific goals, instead of you doing that, I would actually do, but do you have Maps Prime Pro? I don't. Okay, so we're gonna send that. I'll have Doug send that to you. So you have that at your disposal. Thank you. And then instead of doing a one hour generic YouTube yoga class, I would do an hour of, you know, or half hour to hour of mobility work that is going to benefit you on the court. Yeah, and in terms of explosive stuff, like in risk versus reward, you can kind of figure out different ways to reduce the risk, right? So with like kettlebell swings, for instance, you know, versus doing power cleans with the Olympic, you know, doing Olympic lifts versus, you know, kettlebell type of explosive movements or controlled box jumps or things like that where we can, you know, reduce a little bit of the risk and stress on the joints and control it a bit better. Like go through that and kind of, you know, adjust to make some tweaks there. The other thing too that, and this is gonna be a listening to your body because overall I like kind of what you're doing already. I might scale back on the strength training because you're doing five by fives and you're doing that two times a week, but then you're also got the skills training and you're playing ball. Like that might be a little much. So if I'm gonna scale back anywhere, it's actually on like the heavy compound lifting that you might be doing right now because basketball is more of a priority. So I would be, I would- You can even just do it once a week. Yeah, so that's what I'm saying. So if I know that I'm doing a lot this week, I might only strength train one time that week. Only time I would do two times if I just, I feel fresh, I feel good. I already got the first one in earlier in the weekend and you're like, you know, I totally feel great. I'm gonna go do it again, but you gotta be honest with yourself. Great. Those are the main ones I see. I mean, I like what you're doing, dude, for the most part, for sure. Yeah, I hope that answers your question, Michael. Do you follow Paul Favrett's PGF performance? I do after hearing you guys mention it on a previous episode. He's got incredible content. Yeah, I think that's where that kind of came from. I saw some of his jumping stuff and that's where I kind of got the question, like, would it be safe for someone my age to do his stuff? You know what's funny about that explosive stuff is that if you stop doing it, you actually start to lose the ability to do it. So as long as you can do it and you can do it safely and controlled and you're not doing it to fatigue, like a lot of people do. You've done all the prerequisites, you're maintaining it, you're fine. You're good. Yeah, honestly, it's healthy to incorporate the explosive movements as you age. So long as they're appropriate. So don't do what doesn't feel right or you feel unstable doing. Maybe we'll throw him also maps performance. I don't know where you're getting your five by five training as far as your programming, but I would follow like a maps performance style of strength training. So I'm not sure if you're familiar with that program of ours, but I'll have Doug send that to you if you don't have it. Do you have it? Boom, two free programs, Michael. That'd be amazing. Thank you so much. No problem. Yeah, I'd use the foundational workouts in there to drive what you kind of do. I think that type of work will carry over into the court better than like a traditional squatting, deadlifting, bilateral stuff. And that would be just once a week, I would do that. Yeah, once or twice based off of how you're feeling, but I agree with Sal. You're probably just fine with the amount of stuff you're doing already. And he's been working out for so long. I mean, it's just plenty. Great, thank you so much, you guys. I really, really appreciate this. Thank you, man. All right, dude. You know what's interesting are the parallels. Trust me, there's a connection here between investing and exercise. Like when you're a young investor, the goal is to be aggressive, take risks, try to grow it. Then later when you've grown your wealth, it's all about protecting it and making sure it doesn't get blown and it gets taken by taxes or whatever. When you're training as a kid, you're like push the performance, push the strength, push the speed. Stretching your capacity. When you get older, what'll make you perform better is protecting your body. So like you look at an athlete, like who's one of the best, like Tom Brady, right? He's been playing forever. I guarantee you, if we looked at his training early in his career and compared it to now. He spends millions on recovery. It's flipped. I bet you most of it in the beginning was improving performance and some towards recovery. And now I bet you it's flipped. None of it, none of it today is on performance. It's all about protecting and recovery. It's 100%. I mean, they went over that. He was a really great documentary on ESPN Plus on him that it took him and they followed his trainer and how they trained. It's all that, right? It is all. Yeah, it's what I would assume. You're not gonna make that guy throw further or harder. No, what'll make him throw further and harder is keeping himself healthy now. Not pushing the performance. I mean, this one really hits me in the feels. It is 100% what I've been wrestling with for quite some time now. And Katrina and I talk it out all the time. And the truth is I'm not disciplined right now to do the work I know I need to do to protect myself inside the court. And I know better. And so that is the only reason why I'm not playing ball. You wanna do the basketball part. Yeah, exactly. I just wanna play ball. I really wanna be able to go down the court once, maybe three times a week at most and just play, get in a pickup game. But I know it's a recipe for disaster for me because I have not been training that way. And so my... Basketball's so explosive. It is. And it's so many. And it's the areas that you know, lateral and rotational stuff or areas that I collect. Everything I stress, like times a thousand. Yes. You know, you put yourself in that environment. Especially you're a big guy. It's like you're a small dude, you know what I mean? That's why I got hurt so many times towards the end of me. You're so strong in one direction. Yeah. You're 220 pounds and you twist real fast and you don't have that stability. Like pop. But I mean, for all the older guys or guys that are above 30 that have contemplated the same exact situation I'm in, that's my... I make this deal with myself. The only way I'm gonna go play ball is if I put the work in first of protecting myself. And if I'm not willing to put the work in to protect myself, then I haven't earned the right to go play ball. That's the way I look at it. And the biggest, for lack of a better term of stake or challenges that you stopped for a while. And then now to get it back, what do you think it would take you a year of really good work? No, I think I could do it in three to three on the short end months. I think probably on the long and six. I don't think I would... And then you feel like you'd be ready to get back on the ball. Yeah, yeah. I mean, just so you know that with building muscle and muscle memory, it wouldn't take that long if I was dedicated to really working towards it. But if you had to be dedicated, it couldn't be like once a week I'd do a little bit of... No, it would be consistent focus. It would be building the program around trying to be a good basketball player or protect myself on the court and that not thinking about, whoa, I was thinking more like, I was thinking more of myself, but that'd be more like three years. It could be like a little... It's never played in a year's cotton load now, bro. You gotta take things in strides, you know. Our next caller is Gary from Illinois. Gary, how are you doing? How can we help you? Hey guys, I gotta tell you, I've been devouring your videos. Thank you. Incredible, found your videos about a month ago and been devouring them. I'm a writer, so I have them on all day long in the background. It's really great, great content. Really love it. I'm gonna be 71 in June and I wanna maintain strength. I wanna be maintained and improve flexibility. I play with the kids. My kids range from 39 to 45. My grandkids are six to 16 and they take no quarter upon me and it would be very disappointing to myself and them if I ever and can't do the things that I wanna continue to do. So I was mainly started looking at your programming. I went ahead and bought the anabolic because I didn't wanna come to this, your program empty-handed. And so I'm hoping for ideas and what you think I should be doing to maintain and improve where I am now. Oh, Gary, well, first off, I appreciate you listening to the show. You're in my favorite demographic of people to train. Anybody over the age of 60, I used to learn so much from training people in that age group and also the most consistent people I've ever trained and I think it just comes from experience. So thanks for calling in and listening. What does your workout look like now? Cause I need to know what your current fitness level is. I need to know what you're doing now so I can make a better, a proper recommendation. So right now I've been doing, off and on I've done the strong lifts five by five. Okay. And how long have you been doing that for? That consistent? Off and on over, as long as it's been out, like, I don't know, 10 years. Okay. Now did you start working out about 10 years ago? No, no, over the years. I mean, when you get to my age, you've done everything, right? You've done, hey, we should run, right? All the time. That's the way to do it. We should eat this way. We should eat that way. You should lift weights. Don't lift weights. So over the years, I've lifted, I've done some CrossFit at one point. I've done, I did orange theory at one point. I know my oldest son does burn and his wife, who's a physical therapist loves it cause it gives her a lot of clients. That's great business model. That's so true. Everybody's getting hurt. That's exactly. It's so great. You know, okay. So Gary, you know what I like for you? Is actually maps performance. Although Anibal is not a bad place to start. Anibal is not bad, but he's got so much experience with Strong Lifts. Yeah, he's got a 555 base, exactly. Yeah, so Strong Lifts is great. It's a great basic strength building routine. Maps Anibal is obviously, I think that's a great routine as well. They're both very, you know, sagittal, plain, focused. They're both very focused on, in specific types of movements, which means you're gonna, over time, you're gonna start to create some imbalances, like laterally, rotationally, for example. And you're talking about keeping up with the kids and doing all these activities and skills. And so it's a great program to maintain a lot of these abilities. Maps performance would be ideal. And then the mobility sessions would be so good for you. The only change I would make in mass performances, I would not have you do the explosive phase unless it's appropriate for you and you can do those things very comfortably and safely. Otherwise, you would eliminate that one phase. Right, it was like phase three. And just follow maps performance as it's laid out with the mobility sessions. That would be so perfect for you, especially the mobility work. I think you would enjoy quite a bit. Yeah, I agree. I think you could probably live in maps performance. We cycle in there, different phases, so you wouldn't really need to switch out of that too much. I mean, you could play with little bits of modification every time you go through it, but I think you could live in that. You're such a great call to follow up our previous call. We just had a guy on there that was 40-something who's played basketball his whole life and he wants to be able to continue into his 70s playing basketball and wanting to know what our advice was and what his training should look like. So definitely when you get a chance to go back and listen to this when it gets posted on YouTube or whatever, make sure you listen to that portion where we talk to him about some of the things that just protecting his joints and thinking about his training and what it should look like to be able to still be in your 50s, 60s and into your 70s playing basketball. Very similar advice as you. You obviously may not care as much about the sport as much as you do care about running. We do actually. Basketball is the family sport. Oh, good for you. There you go. So the advice that we give him, very similar, maps performance is be the kind of the strength training and then a lot of focus on mobility work which is in maps performance. Literally with basketball, we were talking about this. Lateral movements and rotational stuff is typically the first thing that you see go on people because we just don't do that in our normal day to day and then you go in the basketball court or play in the pickup and you ask your body to do that explosively and that's where you see injury normally happen. So if you're doing the right mobility work in the gym to protect yourself when you do those pickup games with the family, you're gonna be all right and maps performance has a lot of that. Now, Gary, this piece of advice and I've said this to everybody and I've said it on the podcast many times but it is gonna serve you really well. Regardless of the work that you do don't go to the gym and think to yourself, I'm gonna work out, think to yourself, I'm gonna perfect my technique and skill with the exercises. It's a totally different mentality. So it's like you go to the gym and do squats while I'm here to hammer myself, I wanna feel my quads, I wanna feel my glutes, I wanna get sore versus let's see how perfect I can make my squat. Let's see how good I can make my stability. Can I increase my range of motion with while maintaining good control, stability, inform and technique. That is gonna- With a little age comes some maturity. Yeah, definitely. So I'm not chasing a weight to be, I'm not chasing a weight to lift, I'm just chasing the performance and I've got all the equipment, everything I have is home. I don't even leave the house to go to the gym. I have it here. That's great. Yeah, good for you. Yeah, that's it. I mean, mass performance with the mentality that I said, you're golden, you'll feel great and you'll have energy and strength to play basketball and feel good about it. I'd also love to hear a follow-up from you after you go through that program for a while. So if you could reach back out to us and keep in touch. Absolutely. I would love to hear how mass performance is benefiting you. I just think that you are a perfect client for that. Well, the other thing too is that most of the people, most of the guys my age are doing nothing. You know, they're golfing, because they're all retired, I'm not. They're all golfing, if they do anything, it's walking. And they're just starting to come around to saying, asking me what I'm doing, because there's obviously a difference, right? No, you're- So, you know, so I'm doing this for myself, but I'm also hoping to, you know, inspire and encourage, you know, others of my peers to, you know, follow along and do the same thing. No, that's amazing. I love it. One of the most striking things about fitness that I just blew me away as I would witness this is, the difference between you and your peers, boy, does it get massive every decade. It grows and grows and grows. I feel like right at 40, that it really starts to split hard. Oh my God. It's like when you're 20, you know, you work out, and your friends are 20, they don't work out. It's not a big difference, but when you're 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, you know, you're 71 years old, I wouldn't be surprised if you had some friends that had mobility issues, that had issues where they just couldn't do things that they could do maybe just 10 years ago. It compounds. I'm seeing it. Yeah, exactly. Add another 10 years to that, and there's gonna be people who are gonna require help and assistance. And you will be fit. You'll be able to take care of yourself, no problem. So it's just. Well, that's what we're seeing now, you know, my, most of us have all lost our parents. My mother just died recently at 91. My mother-in-law is 98. But, you know, they all ended up in wheelchairs. You know, everybody's ending up in a wheelchair on their way out the, you know, out the door, so to speak. And definitely do not want to be in that position. Yeah, well, you're on the right track, Gary. So we'll send you mass performance, and you'll be all set. Thanks for calling. Thanks, guys. I'll set the anabolic aside for now, or give it to one of my kids, because I bought it. There you go. That's it. Stay in touch, Gary. I'd love to hear how it goes for you. Thanks. I will. All right. Thanks, guys. Yeah, always my favorite group. The change. It's always cool to hear. Well, the change you see, like, you know, you get someone to lose 30 pounds, you get the average person to get more strong and fit, and it changes their life. It's great. I love it. I love it. But you take someone who's 70, and you have them do some strength training, and they go from, I couldn't go up to the stairs, so now I can go up the stairs by myself. Like, that's life changing in a different way. Bro, you can, can you hear the life in him? Yeah. I mean, he sounds like he's 30 years younger. Vibrous. Yeah. You know, hasn't stopped working, still likes to work, wants to be able to play basketball with his grandkids, like such a... I'll never forget when I had it. My 84-year-old client come in, and excited, wasn't even her session, excited to tell me that she was able to close the trunk of her SUV by herself. Like, the things you take for granted. All because we started strength training. You don't have to suffer through the aging process. I mean, I think that's, I love to hear, you know, people are getting ahead of that and really sticking with, you know, the training part of it, because it just benefits the quality of your life going forward. Yeah, but you did call it, and like, tell me, now that we're 40, we're all in our early 40s. Oh, massive, massive drop-off. Oh, bro, is, I'm like, my buddy's like, like, what happened to you? Like, if I don't see him for five years, and I'll see him like, oh, you got a big pot belly, and you're not moving well at all. You're only 40, dude, that's not good. So look, if you like our information, head over to mindpumpfree.com and check out our guides. We have guides that can help you with almost any fitness goal. You can also find all of us on social media. So Justin is on Instagram, at Mind Pump. Justin, Adam is on Instagram, at Mind Pump. Adam, and you can find me on Twitter, at Mind Pump Sal.