 Welcome back to the Rod Arquette Show on this Tuesday, final half hour for you, or with you. I was talking with a couple of people the other day and we were talking about music. And the question came up of, I think we were talking about the Eagles. The Eagles are about to go, or maybe on the road already, in concert. They aren't coming here unfortunately and I probably couldn't afford to go anyways because the Eagles, tickets to an Eagles concert are just unrealistic. But we were talking about their favorite Eagles song and someone brought up Lion Eyes, which a lot of people do like that song. Well there is a company here in Utah which has developed a new lie detector test using your lying eyes so to speak. And joining us on our Newsmaker Line to talk about that right now is Todd Mickelson, his president and CEO of Converis. Todd, how are you? And welcome to the show. Thanks for joining us. I'm well, Rod. Thanks for having me. Tell us about this new technology and what you're trying to do with it. Well, as you mentioned, it is a new type of lie detector, unlike a traditional polygraph that many of you have seen in the movies or on TV that measures things like heart rate, blood pressure, whether you start to sweat. Eye detect measures subtle changes in your eyes while you take a computer-based test or while you answer questions that are presented to you on a computer. What do the eyes tell us that maybe the traditional lie detector test can't do? So a traditional lie detector test is just measuring whether there's an increase in heart rate or a change in blood pressure. We're measuring subtle changes that occur in the eyes when we lie. Those changes are invoked by an increase in cognitive load. Or in other words, you have to think harder to communicate a lie than to communicate the truth. And when you think harder, it has these involuntary effects on the eyes, such as pupil dilation. So the eyes dilate when you're answering a question that you're lying to versus answering a question that you're telling the truth to. How did you find out this research, Todd, that you have to think harder when you lie? I find that fascinating. Yeah, so it comes actually out of the University of Utah. Dr. John Kircher and Dr. David Raskin, two of the foremost experts in lie detection, they're actually credited with creating the first computerized polygraph in the 90s. In 2002, they started exploring this concept of using the eyes to detect deception. And what they found is you exert more cognitive load, more brain power, if you will, when you're lying than when you're telling the truth. And that exertion of brain power or increase in cognitive load causes the eyes to dilate. It causes some other things like a change in your blink rate and where you look on the screen when you're answering questions, but they're all involuntary responses that are invoked by an increase in cognitive load. So how exactly does it work, Todd, because we all have that scene that we've seen in movies or on TV where someone's sitting at a table and they're hooked up to a lie detector and people are asking them questions, how does eye detect work? Exactly. Yeah, so the beauty is you don't get hooked up to anything. It's non-intrusive, non-invasive. You sit down in front of a computer that has our software on it, along with an eye tracker, and the computer presents a set of questions to you, or rather a set of true-false statements, which you simply click, true or false, to confirm or deny. And while that's happening, the eye tracker is capturing at 60 times per second these subtle changes in the eyes. And at the conclusion of the questions being presented, the data that's captured by the eye tracker is submitted to a computer algorithm, and the computer algorithm generates a score that looks at, you know, did your eyes respond or not? And it basically compares how your eyes are responding to the primary questions versus how they respond in a baseline situation. In a situation where we know you're not lying. We're talking right now with Todd Mickelson. Todd is the president and CEO of Converis. This is a company that has a Utah company that has developed new technology using the eyes instead of the traditional lie detector test. Todd, has the judicial community or the law enforcement community had a chance to use this yet? Are they embracing it too early to tell? What's the feedback so far, Todd? They are. We have over 50 law enforcement groups across the United States, a handful in Utah that have adopted it for two scenarios. They're using it for pre-screening of potential hires or candidates, where they want to verify if you have some things in your past that you haven't revealed that you're not being truthful about. And then they're also using it in investigations. So they're using it to help identify if someone is being truthful about a specific issue that would then help them, you know, focus their efforts on where to dig deeper to find evidence and confirm whether that's true or not. And I understand the story that was on Fox 13 last night. This is where we picked up the story that a judge in New Mexico, I believe, Todd, allowed some of that evidence in a court hearing. Is that true? Explain that if you would. Yeah, that is true. So in New Mexico, we had a case with a sex offender, a person was accused of a sex offense. And he was both polygraphed and tested with eye detect. Both tests came back negative, meaning indicating that he was telling the truth that he was not involved. And that court eventually, that case eventually went to a district level judge who looked at the science behind eye detect and in the end accepted the science or rather the results of the case as evidence in this case. Todd, who is more likely to use this test? Would it be the prosecution or the defense? Currently, we have a fair number of defense attorneys that tend to use it more than the prosecution. They're using it to prove innocence. In some cases, they're using it to get the truth out of their potential client. So before they take on a case, they'll say, I want you to take this test to confirm that you're being truthful with me. And if they fail, then they encourage them to confess and seek a plea bargain as opposed to pleading innocence. And if they pass, then they attempt to use it as evidence. Final question for you, Todd. Do you think eye detect is better than the current lie detector test and if so, why? Well, it's on par in terms of accuracy or better. Traditional polygraph is about 85% accurate in terms of identifying whether someone's lying or not. Eye detect is 86% to 90% accurate depending on the type of test you're running. And part of the reason it's more accurate is the computer is giving the test as opposed to a human being. So you remove a bias. And then we use a computer algorithm to score the test or to analyze the data as opposed to a human being that would be analyzing the data as just the case in a polygraph. Interesting. Todd, thank you for your time. Good luck with this new invention, a new program that you have, this new technology. Thank you for talking to us about it tonight. Thank you. No problem. Thank you. All right. On our Newsmaker line, that's Todd Mickelson, president and CEO of Converis. They've developed a new lie detector test, basically focusing on the lie or on the eyes. It's not the trade, you know, the old eagle's song, lion eyes. Well, they can tell of your line, apparently with this new technology. A Utah company. Love it. Fascinating. All right. More coming up on The Rod Arquette Show, here on Utah's talk radio, 1059K NRS Listen, and you'll know our final chance to talk with Dr. Enochart, director of education here at my hearing centers. I know they have lie detector test or eye detector test. What kind of test do they have to determine if you're going through hearing loss now? Yeah, we're not trying to catch people in a lie. But we are trying to help change people's lives.