 Well, we all we have to shove Elon into our list of topics. Okay. I mean, I could talk about Elon If you want me to talk about Elon, I can talk about Elon for a very long time Why would we want to do something? Who is this Elon that you speak of? Elon gate elongated tusk. This is an elongated task Husk all right, we're we're live Hello people hello from from down in the under In the under yeah, you go in Australia. You're safe. You're going to Albat the India under I've been I've been told that Steve's accents are sometimes offensive. Don't worry about him. He's just weird Accents are a little bit of Enceve Let's see Enceve I am off but Enceve. I don't know They might mean that your accents are expensive and they do cost us quite a bit he charges us every time he goes into an accent Come to to Linux gas support Yeah, that was an offensive Joseph is modifying no man Damian He can't be doing that That's not allowed He switched the default fire manager from Nautilus to Nemo. That's not allowed My my the god. It didn't used to be allowed Nautilus was the entire shell Tell you from now Nemo is ten times better than this other thing For Nautilus the norm and what which one are we shipping in zero G right now? I Have no choice because I have to be true to Gnome. I really don't have the patience for the accents today guys I Will talk your American accent and we'll do it right Oh, that should pretty nice. That was actually pretty good. Yeah, yeah So, I mean it sounded pretty close to you know, you moving over here to the south and just living here for like Well four months Yeah Okay, so For the chat I totally wasn't trying to shield student are earlier here in our private private pre-stream conversation. I swear No, he was hardcore It's not like it's the only power major I've ever used I just Is still the Yes, I mean the world's greatest father the world's greatest file manager is our brain No, it's VIFM and we all know it. It's RM That's the world's greatest file. I don't need you don't need to worry about it if it doesn't exist I mean we all should just switch to just only using RAM as our long-term storage media So every time you turn off your computer, I mean if you don't if you don't remember what it was It's anything is I found this really compelling article that explains how to load Nix OS into a root read all into a root RAM disk and Have it persist That's pretty cool. I did let it slows down boot time with the computer But how many of us actually turned computer off? That is a good point My time I understand you would have to Steve. Well, how before we start I guess I guess there's something you guys can keep talking Tyler confirm still on Gentoo yay or nay No We knew it Steven I called it So I was having I was having I can't remember what the issue was but I was having some issue I was like, you know what I'll just go I'll give Debbie another shot try just going with that regular X or I'm having issues even on DWM. I don't know the zero AD crashes, which is like the biggest problem right now I mean, that's just a non acceptable bug. I need zero AD to work You know, I've I've turned like pretty much my entire discord into like absolute like zero AD fiends So I need zero AD to work your discord server has gone through so many different phases it was a Linux server and then it turned into a OpenBSD server for a while now Into a game dev server now it's a zero AD server Yeah, well, I mean like look it's still like a Linux like Linux slash like game dev type Discord, but the focus has completely just shifted towards most of us only getting together and only discussing zero AD outside of a just a chat thread so Yeah, and I mean we're having we're probably gonna have another game of zero AD tonight guys You were wondering you you were asking for a weirdo got weirdo number one here I think he was supposed to be pointing us at Tyler If it's pointing to the ground on yours, yeah, he's above you on the stream Yeah, he's he's above you on the script stream Just let you guys know where we're waiting I have an Amazon package coming that I need to go out and get so before we actually start recording I want to do it and it's two stops away. Well, well, why while you're waiting on that first of all everybody in the chat What I need three things from you guys first of all, I need you to tell us what distro you're on How many how many windows you have open and how many tabs you have opened in those windows? Okay We want to see who's wasting the most most resources on their system right now because I want to see if anybody can beat Matt Okay, I'm sure there can there there'll be plenty of people who are using more tabs than I am Maybe not though as for me. I don't need to explain which which distro I am on I have one two three four five six applications open Vivaldi has one two three four five six seven eight nine ten I just I just have three programs open browser OBS for you know doing like yeah that kind of stuff and That's it like get that in discord. I mean, that's it. Okay, so I have I Holy Chromium is a hog on resources man. I mean, yeah eight workspace workspaces. I have three VMs open. I have One instance like a 20 man. I can beat Matt Vivaldi and I in Vivaldi. I have let's see here I have 1132 419 and 6 add those up Okay, doesn't my work just wait wait. Hold on. Did you say you had three VMs open? Yeah Well, he's got 64 gigs. He's got 64 gigs of brown. I I do most of my work inside of VMs now Almost exclusively so I have one for work, which you know the things that actually paid for I have one for Just random internet browsing and my Python courses and then I have one that runs some various like Local local next-cloud stuff. Okay. You guys want me to blow your minds? Okay, blow our minds. I have I have 78 applications open right now Make sense. I have I'm on KDE and I'm making use of the virtual workspaces. I have seven of those open I I would change it. Yeah, I have Discord running this phone call. I have OBS running this call I have a Firefox window open for just the chat and then I've got And then I've got chromium tabs open on the other virtual workspaces, which there are multiple terminals I don't know exactly what they're all doing because you know, I've been sitting here hacking on this terminal terminals It depends what you're doing on them. But if you're not doing anything, we're not doing any compiling right now And and I've set the virtual workspaces to go into suspend when I'm not actively looking at them So they are just effectively paused processes. But right now. I'm currently using 117 gigabytes of memory Question So you're running Firefox in Chrome at the same time. Is it because you hate yourself? Yeah, okay. I just wanted to make sure Just so you know, there is no contract out there that says life must be pain and you need to whiff yourself Like just like look if chrome if if you let chromium touch your system And it's rotting if you're using anything else on top of that I don't know what you're doing because the way it works. It's already such a memory hog Just let it Take open extra stuff. Well, you know, you know what I said about NixOS earlier I happen to be using a lot of that memory actually happens to be in NixOS virtual machine that I'm running Well speaking of NixOS Tyler did you read or watch the snippet of news that where The Developers of a steam OS said that it will be allowing NixOS packages on the steam dick They're just including the next package manager And no not only that they're including it to be to survive updates Yeah, because they're just running out of the home directory, which I don't the home directory wipes itself out. Oh Yeah, well, yeah, so you can do what they're talking about right now Yeah, they're just they're just they're as far as I know the only thing that I've heard is that they're gonna be integrating it more And but yeah, it kind of makes sense though because and Nix like I mean Anybody who's ever used the Nix package manager knows Like back in the day if you were like using something like homebrew on like a Mac or I mean Yeah, I use homebrew Nix like Nix beats the fucking shit Homebrew it's faster. It's better. They have I mean they have just as many packages. If not 80,000 packages, I think that the NixOS package repository is actually bigger than Debian's 80,000 Debian Debian has 76,000 or something like that Yeah, the only thing that I'll say though is like nowadays with the way that the lineage kernel is as long as you get a Real not like super bleeding edge new kernel, but as long as it's you know 6.2 High or like three like around there 6.3 For the steam deck you can run pretty much anything on it and it'll be fine I will say though as somebody who's tried it Getting hyperland Requires a lot of work, but you can do it you can set up bindings and you can have a window manager set up On a steam deck. Don't ask me if it's a good idea because I'm going to have to be honest No matter how much you might want it to be Cool and something you should try it's not Uh, it doesn't work well Already the steam deck officially is still on 515 kernel so They need to get their ass. Okay. They're including the patches in the 515 or from from new work from newer kernels Well, well, they're Well, no, I mean it's it's it's actually the opposite. So They're keeping the kernel back to keep it stable, which makes sense because it's you know, it's a it's it's a product that people need to use It's not a toy. Well the system the os is not a toy the actual device is the toy So they keep it stable and then all of the extra things they do for the steam deck is then ported upstream And that's why the newer linux kernels have Patches for the steam deck that you need if you're going to switch away to something else other than steam os on the device but Well that and valve also treats the steam deck like an appliance rather than a computer So the way that the way that they're developing it. Yeah, it's it is arch Linux, but they're developing it very slowly, which you know It's just important that that it's important to make that distinction because all these people are just going like Oh, the steam deck using an outdated kernel like well Yeah, because you know, it's it's not being treated as a computer If you want a steam deck to be a computer, don't use steam os Also, it's not an outdated card like there is such. I think it's lts. I think we all know those like Yeah, but a lot of people making this what confuses me. There's so many lts is out there. There's 515. There's 6.1. There's yeah I don't know. It's like Are you on an lts kernel? Yeah, which one? Yeah, well, that's Really in all honesty the the the big thing about an lts kernel is you should really only use them when it's A distro supported one and if your distro has a lot like if you're if your distro is a rolling release Using an lts kernel is probably going to cause issues Like if it doesn't that's great. That's well on for example on arch Linux when it comes to nvidia users Uh the lts should always be installed Because specifically when it comes to nvidia drivers because they're not always quickly patched to support the latest kernel Well having an lts installed it will allow the user to at least be able to boot to their desktops Well that and honestly like your entire graphics stack is managed by the nvidia driver itself and not the kernel So at that point you might as well just use the lts kernel unless like you're looking at like specifically butterf s enhancements Uh, I have I have the 6.1 lts kernel installed on the legacy systems with the legacy nvidia gpus Uh just for that specific scenario because yeah soon as soon as 6.6 point 4.1 lands on arch Now those systems will not boot on anything but the lts kernel until tkg update their drivers Choose their drivers When it comes to nvidia nvidia like the dkms They will rebuild themselves against the latest kernel. No problem Right since I'm using the tkg drivers. I have to wait for tkg to patch To patch their drivers to be able to use the latest kernel What which is one reason why I really don't like the way nvidia like nvidia works Like if you want a really good experience, you have to wait on so many different third parties For it to get fixed and like implemented properly because nvidia just I don't know like uh, we were talking actually earlier me and josh we're talking about the intel arc and like intel see gpus and like The support over there is kind of wild like dude. He was showing me like do they have like they literally have like Essentially h top but for your seat for your gpu Which I did not know was an intel thing like that's that's pretty freaking sick Like there's nv top for nvidia. There's nv top for nvidia, but it doesn't be Doesn't video package nv top in an open source manner That's the user who puts it on the ur. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, let me to show you guys what I was showing him Uh, let's see. Uh, it is this tool right here And it's literally just h top for intel graphics Minimal that's it. Can we cover that? Can we cover that in a news item like last week or something? Uh, I think I put it on like the thing is the week at one point All right, gents. Do you have your audio recording apparatus open? I have audio recording apparatus already launched. It is just sitting here Waiting. Yeah, my my thingy is open. Okay. Might as well. Yeah Yeah, yep. All right. I'm gonna let's go ahead and get started. I'm gonna hit record in audacity I'm gonna have recording tap the microphone make sure it's coming through the right source I'm gonna hit record in yes because that's usually the place where we get use the damn audio from because some That is somebody somebody's audio is gonna crash. Who's it gonna be today? Nami nami probably It does seems like a steve's turn This is the wrong audio channel the the goodness by us doing a really long pre-show today as we tested discord It should be better anyways That is It fails one time. We're moving to jitzy just to let y'all know I'm not doing it People really enjoyed that episode. By the way, they enjoyed our pain Excuse me. Good Okay, I think we're actually pulling out of the correct thing. Let me run a quick layback here Are you saying? Yep, okay Audacity was trying to record out the wrong audio channel because you know setting audio devices in kde plasm is actually surprisingly difficult compared to just using pavu control The kde simp like me, I agree Oh All right, um, let's see here steve you want to do the claps you can All right gentlemen your Meeners, I mean hands ready three two one That was horrendous, but it's okay. Also. I think I smacked the microphone more than I smacked my hand. I'm just So I tried my cancellation because I didn't hear shit I'm probably discord doing it. Oh my god Oh watching that in the stream was it was bad. It was I think that may have been our worst one ever At least you guys can play back the stream Oh Why does gentu not have Uh, no, uh, you see what it is that uh, I'm a youtube premium subscriber, right? And uh, you know, uh, I went to a lot of youtube yesterday to watch some like videos And then suddenly it's just like you need to disable your ad blocker that way you can watch youtube I'm like, okay, so I disabled the ad blocker. Guess what youtube is serving me ads on my premium feed where I'm specifically Paying so that I'm not seeing ads on my premium feed. Yeah, I haven't seen that at all I'm a pretty premium subscriber too and I still have an ad blocker still works for me Just probably doesn't like you I'm just Well, I turned I turned the ad blocker back on And youtube is just like you need to turn off your ad blocker because we're not going to serve you anything But you can always subscribe to premium get ad free videos Yeah, something's wrong. Okay. Because they're hoping they're all purpose of that ad thing is to get people to join premium youtube still works And honestly, honestly, we all know this but you gotta shut off about it. Come on No I'm not no It's not my channel to worry about but anyways, uh Thanks, I appreciate that But when when you look at the benefits of what you of what youtube premium brings you Compared to like the other streaming platforms that you pay a subscription for the only one that actually competes in that in that In like the variety of stuff that you have access to because it's not just youtube that you get You have to get like their music program and all that The only one that actually competes with that and like actually does better is amazon prime Well, it depends on which kind of content you want because if you want sports Then it's going to be the disney hulu espn plus thing I don't think that they're selling out of the bundle anymore I don't know. I don't think I've ever subscribed to it. So I think they are though. I think it's like 1499 or something A month. I don't know. I don't care enough to go check. Anyways, let's go ahead and get started Um, I think I'm ready to go. I got all the scenes ready to go. We're recording in the proper places All right. Well. Hey guys, welcome to the tangent cast No We're gonna do this and we're gonna be done by 4 30 There will be three tangents exactly in this episode 50 minutes 50 minutes. All right. All right. All right. We'll see if we can do it probably not Haven't succeeded yet. All right. I'm uh, me then josh then steve and tyler just to fuck with his brain Okay, I can remember that Hey, everybody. Welcome to the next cast. I'm your host matt God It's your turn. It's your turn He said he said me steve josh then tyler Okay, uh, my name is somebody I'm josh And i'm tyler You guys thought last week was bad. This is gonna be worse Okay Don't worry. Don't worry people in the chat. We're gonna put a smile the size of kilimanjaro on On matt space. No This has been a shit day And you guys ain't making it better Are you sure because we we have three different articles concerning red hat I know because last week went out went so well um But it's the news of the week anyways welcome to the linux cast such as the beginning Probably told you that it was you know, because it's the most unprofessional podcasts in the history of the world um Probably true actually now that i'm thinking of it. Um, welcome guys I'm good I'm glad to see your pretty faces. We're here. We're going to talk about some linksy things We got some news to talk about but before we do as we always do We're going to talk about what we did this week in the open source fos linux world Thing community whatever so tyler, why don't you start us off? What have you been doing this week? uh suffering uh suffering just endlessly I'm having weird crashing with zero ad talking about in the free show, but you know, um The one glorious thing I have and I need I need zero ad Speaking of which we'll be playing it later on. Okay. All right. So if you want to come play zero ad It's going to be on my discord server. There's going to be a lot of us anyway Yeah, so i'm having issues with it crashing on dwm xorg. Um, the only thing I will say though is I really do hate the fact that pipe wires echo cancellation module is uh But compared to pulse audios pulse audios echo cancellation actually removes all of the audio It it works just fine Pipe wires does not you still get a little bit in there. It's really annoying Uh, and I I think I'm gonna have to go back to pipe wire and uh Uh Am a beautiful beautiful hyper land here soon I miss it. I miss it so much It's so good But yeah, that's what I've been up to. All right, steve. What about you, man? Up and up to uh To my uh belly button in linux I need to take a break. Uh, I discovered that I have a new sickness called, uh, bash scripting Um, I keep modifying my bash scripts and adding more and more and more and more Uh, please help please help send help Just know you're not alone. This disease affects many many people out there. It's okay. It's so much fun It's so much fun. Uh, I open I come up with an idea To find somebody who did something close to that idea Take their bash script modify it to work for me because I can't write anything from scratch Uh, so I've been doing that and I finished Doing all the tweaks for august release on zero linux and I was Trying and attempting as hard as I can as Much as this body is able to deal with Wayland Uh on kde all right Some reason plasma shell keeps crashing plasma shell keeps crashing plasma shell keeps crashing. So I'm like And once it crashes, I cannot go to the tty. I cannot do anything. I have to reboot the hard reboot the computer That doesn't sound like anything to do with Wayland If you can't go to the tty then because Wayland would no longer be running once the No, it just it just gives me this black screen with the whenever I move the cursor. There's a million cursors Uh, and no matter what I click. I cannot go to the tty But I can bring up the the terminal control alt t. I'll see the terminal. I can type update upgrade Whatever, so I type reboot and it reboots the system, but I cannot do anything else uh so I've been dealing with that and uh, I've been working on the website and The other than the that in the linux world what they were was like, oh, yeah, I'm working on a new application uh Slowly it will take me maybe 55 years to finish but slowly getting there. It's an application that will be uh upgrading it's an upgrade application for zero linux in case and only in case there are major changes to to the release People can use this upgrade application to switch from one major release to the next without having to reinstall the system that idea I stole from What's it called? The white Zorin what? Zorin. Yes Extra surprised that that news didn't make it into the list today I'm not a Zorin user so I don't care Yeah, same. I saw that anybody actually knows Zorin user I used to use Zorin I installed it on one of my aunt's computers like six years ago No, I I used Zorin OS the last one I installed was 15 15.2 pro Uh, because yeah, why not donate two bucks at once? Uh, but I got it and I didn't like it too heavy too white My eyes were my eyes dropped out of my sockets, but yeah Probably for life famous pretty bright. I mean, I could say that zero linux is a little bit too purple Well, I agree with that. That's why it'll be changing Magenta working on it. We're working on it. All right, uh, josh your what did you do this week? Uh, what did I do this week other than, you know back to hacking on sailboats? Uh, I actually uploaded A full video for last thursday And I uploaded it on on the sunday prior to to like all this stuff This video was about 20 minutes long like all my other videos had three different camera positions Had like the most advanced audio track that I've ever actually sat there sat there and took Three and a half hours to edit it was real fancy. It was all well done. It was all done using a red hat server And then red hat made their announcement So I just decided not to publish the video because it's just like if I publish the video what's gonna happen What's gonna happen You're a red hat shill bro Yeah, yeah, so, uh I I jumped all my servers to debbie and because apparently that's a cool kid now And I I've been uh, I've been uh, working on uh, figuring out like how I want to how I'll how if I even want to bother Re-filming this episode or if I just want to push it as it is I might just push it as it is because I'm lazy I say you push it as it is That's gonna be nice Um, and then do yourself a favor and don't read those comments just And debbie and debbie and nala equals marriage made in heaven. I am not using nala I am I don't even know what now. I wouldn't I will never use knowledge because I don't see the point in it Apped works perfectly fine Lane looks good. What what is the color? It's a front end for app Oh, okay, it makes apt look like a dnf basically Looks better than dnf, but it doesn't matter. All right, um So me personally, I have many things I could possibly talk about but I think I will say this I have so I I'm still using debbie and he has problems. He has had problems. No, I haven't had any problems in the whole week It's been great. Um, so don't don't put words in my mouth there I debbie and has been fantastic I did have the initial problems that I talked about last week of installing q-tile on debbie and never did Get that figured out, but I did manage to use nix to install it and that was Phenomenal that first initial experience with the nix package manager just blows your mind because it says like oh my god I had access to basically the a u r on any distro But after using it for a few days It's not quite as good as it makes it seem to be because there's some weird quirks. I'm not sure if I'm doing anything wrong, but It some so if you install two applications that are supposed to like talk to each other like q-tile and q-tile extras They don't actually talk to each other because they're containerized, right? So they don't Why q-tile extras even exists in the repository? I don't know it just doesn't work There's a few other ones that feel like they're having like a path problem like their path isn't in the right place So it just says program not found even though you can launch the binary of it So I've been having that problem with nix, but other than that I mean every once in a while you'll get a situation where you install something from there. It's just like wow That's really really cool And sometimes you install something like yeah that like for example, I tried to install the vaulty From the the next package manager didn't work um And it has the like the ff mpeg codex or whatever the chip installed alongside it Even though I installed that package It still wouldn't recognize that they were installed because they're in their own place apparently so that didn't work I ended up having to get the Dead package of the vaulty in order to work um When I was still using firefox Uh, and and josh was helping me with this It was nothing he could help me with because apparently the pie wall Fox has something to do with the whole PIP virtual environment thing that's the reason why that wasn't working But I thought it was because of uh firefox esr. I figured the firefox was too old. So josh says well one You had the uh, you had the PIP block of text telling you you you have to to install in a Virtual environment use pip x right and you're not supposed to remove the file that Blocks pips so I was trying to be a good boy and I do it and I did I just installed nix instead. Um, but Installing firefox from nix also is wonky as fuck You know, it's just it's just not just it doesn't quite work I mean, there's a few things that just don't really work well when you install something from nix Uh, it's possible that i'm doing Things wrong. So no, you're not you're not because I I I did try in the next package manager went site to stack kept I don't know simping over multiple times So I gave it a try. I installed telegram and telegram wouldn't launch it would complain about missing icons A font I know telegram sometimes keeps complaining about font But this time around it was complaining about some missing icon and I made sure the icon was there. It just wouldn't see it uh, I installed uh multiple things and I was having weird issues with some stuff and It's like it grabs from source puts in random places and Not everything works with stuff for in random places Well, it creates its own path and puts that path and your and everything is in a home directory Well, I don't mind everything A lot of developers do that. It's really weird My thing what I'm thinking is going on is that they like they create their own path and put that in the The your path variable, but they don't store everything in the place where you download it All right, so the the binaries that you need to launch aren't actually in the right place And the whole containerization part of it means that things aren't talking to each other. It's a little weird I think as Darth Vader says in the chat Nick is not great. They need something like flat seal They need something like flat seal for next. Yeah, maybe I don't know Anyways, that's what that's one of the things that I've been doing this week I am happy that I tried next because it did get cutile up and running on my system Which is just made me so very very happy I was not I was doing okay in plasma You know It wasn't as buggy as it normally is I still had the problem where I had to kill case screen in order for the screens to turn off Which is still the stupidest bug ever Which oddly enough does not work in Wayland like Wayland is supposed to be the savior of that problem But it still happens on on Wayland and the solution that works on xorg does not work in Wayland So I ended up using xorg. So I'm just glad to be back in cutile. I'm pretty happy overall debian I'm pretty happy with the way debian's treating me right now. Um, whether or not that will last I don't know. We'll see. I have it in a VM. I have it in a VM and I'm doing a lot of stuff in there A lot of stuff that might break any other distro, but Damn debian is all of like a rock Uh, I don't know when we'll do a nyx west distro challenge. We're doing cubes next Are we? Yeah. Oh Uh, I still have it on my laptop. So I guess I'm already partaking in it Uh, that that episode will be in the beginning of august. So yeah, look forward to that We've got a little bit of time. Anyways, so that is already one It's it's not a You're not winning anything Anyways, uh, that is what we've done this weekend open source. Let's go ahead and start talking with the news Let me see if I can't get this thing up here. I got to go to the the proper VM in order to do this All right, so why don't we go to tyler you first? No, right Well, uh, I guess we'll start off with my apple studio display news So for all of you out there because I know there's tons of you with this, uh, you know, like $5,000 fucking screen So, uh, if you have this screen, you're like, dude, I would really like to use this on linux. Well, guess what? Now you finally have it to where you can control the display Like at least the brightness. I highly doubt you're able to control anything else about the display but You can now actually control the backlight of your super expensive extremely decadent Monitor on linux with the usb controls. You're welcome And this is going in the kernel Mm-hmm. I didn't know that this thing didn't have an actual display connection. It was just usb What's we type c? Yeah Oh Apple's not gonna put a hdmi thing on anything that they have to I mean they have a like a port on their thing But not on their display Um, also there has to be somebody that uses because there's somebody that created it So there's there's at least one person out there that does yeah, this was an independent developer This was not a guy that was doing it for a company or anything. He was just like, yeah, you know, I fixed it I fixed the display on my part. Uh, here's the patch for for it out in the kernel Well, I would have I would have expected it from like the acai guys or whatever how it's called the the one that's Trying to get linux to work on on dm series or whatever But this is just some dude who happens to use a really expensive monitor Um, it looks looks like that this builds a dkms module because he can't seem to get a working in the kernel so if you so there's a link in the foronix article man, if you could post that for us and uh If any of you knows knows a little bit about kernel development You should see if you can hop into the mailing list there and see if I you can help uh Help this guy get this included in the kernel itself because uh That's the only thing that's stopping it right now is that it's being shipped as a dkms module I can't actually paste that link because i'm not i'm in a vm And cross cross clip board is not working Of course, and uh, you know, I don't have mod privileges in the youtube channel Matt matt matt the solution to that just type in terminal spice dash vd agent and copy paste I have it installed. It's still not working. No, you have it installed. Yes, but you have to run it from terminal For your copy paste from host I will start messing around with that after You have to launch it. It's a it's not a daemon or anything or a service It's just you have to run it prior to do it only on pde and some other desktop environments on gnome and xfc just work All right, let me see if I can find josh's account to give him a moderator. I was going to do it then tyler timed him out There you go, I just posted in chat for you. All right, now we've had that distraction All right, you gotta go to the I gotta go to the right The right thing here. Okay There we go. There we go Honestly on this whole apple I'm surprised to anybody actually ever bought that monitor, but apparently it's Because I mean the reviews are not good of it But then they they review it from a like a regular consumer point of view and it's like four people who are You know color correcting and stuff like that. Yeah Is speaking of apple in today's star trek episode the the captain james d curkey says I was just uh at the apple store where they were teaching me how to use duck duck go What That sentence doesn't work is this fan fiction or It's like it's star trek. It's it's like a it's a it's a fictional tv show about space But since they they landed in the 21st century because it happens in a 22nd 23rd century Uh, they landed in the 21st century where he didn't know what what excuse to come up with He was like I was at the apple store where they were showing me how to use duck duck go I'm like This episode there's tangent number one. All right to be fair To be fair, I've had to teach my grandma how to use something other than google Okay, and the audience she knew how to use google was because you know when she opened up her firefox window Where did it go google.com? All right, josh your first one Oh my first one. Okay. Okay. I'm gonna I'll go ahead and get started on this here Open susa respond responded to red hat And uh, you know open susa's just like yeah, our code is still open source. You can find it over here It's pretty cool Red hat we don't we don't appreciate you doing this to us. So as usual as usual Open susa is being the good guy. We obviously don't deserve because they're a big corporate distro If if only it would work That would be great if only Uh, that that said, uh, the the open susa guys are they're they're always It's not a distro that I'm I actually use myself for many of the same reasons why I don't use arch Linux Except that opensus is a little bit more reliable for their package managers. It's just everything else about the distro Uh, but you know, uh, it it's just one of those distros that I think open susa is going to see like a greater market share in response to all this red hat stuff It's it's either going to be open susa or ubuntu But ubuntu is also doing things that are getting like system administrators really mad at them So realistically of the enterprise space It's either going to be then debion or open susa and there's a very valid reason to have that that that support contract Yeah, well, yeah, I think that for for enterprises open sus is going to be a good alternative for a lot of people and from just uh, kind of go into tangent number two just to see if we can't meet steve's prediction Um, it's not really a tangent So you guys know, I was having those problems with open susa. I figured out what I did wrong Um, it's not going to make me switch back to open susa But now that I know what I did wrong, I can avoid it So open susa comes with a specialized version of flat pack Reinstalled, okay But if you don't know that and you try to install flat pack on your own It will actually remove that specialized version of flat pack and install the one you're trying to install That's what I did that caused all of those path problems and authentication problems Okay, so I installed just the flat bare bones version of flat pack and that was causing the issues It removed some kind of dependency when I did that and that's what caused the issues um I should correct myself. It was susa that was saying oh, it's not open susa, which you know, they're basically the same thing Thank you phone. I appreciate that Um, anyways, I'm sorry about that. Uh, yeah, so that's why I figured out so Right that thing is still going on by the way And we still have some more news to go about that later on in the show Just want to just want to get it all out of the way right away Uh, sure. I'll go next and do or actually steve you have one of the open susa on right? I have one. No rocky linux rocky linux. That's yours, right? I oh, okay. Why don't you go next and do the rocky linux one? All right So, uh, the rocky linux shares how they may continue to obtain the rel source code Uh, just of it is, uh, they're going to be Using a two method. They're looking into two methods Not all uh, not only one and one of these Methods is Pay for something I forgot the name of it. Uh pay for use cloud images Yeah pay pay for use cloud images And the other one is to have Including docker hub okay This is of ubi container images which are based on the rel and available from multiple online sources Including the docker hub Using ubi images is easy is easily Obtainable basically from red hat source This is the second method that they want to use and they've tried and it seems to work fine So they can do that They they they can do that but I'm I'm not If they I prefer if they use the ubi method because paper use Is going to be a little bit difficult because it's not really solving the problem Uh, it's just uh doing a different version of the same problem Oh But other than that, it's uh, uh, it's just What they're saying is basically Is light at the end of the tunnel don't worry. Well, my worry and this was my worry last week was that yes They found a way around it, but how long until red hat decides they're going to close those down That's what I wanted to tackle. Yeah, they seem to they seem to be very interested in killing off the Problem around the whole the whole red hat thing is they will not budge And it's affecting. Uh, it's it's starting to ripple Uh negatively in negative. It's causing negative ripples in the linux realm And that's not good for open source because there are bound to be Other open source projects that use this excuse to start making money when they don't really need it Just use it as an excuse to just ask for money So basically, I think I think all of these these projects especially at this scale need money so They're going to what i'm saying is to use that as an excuse I I I'm probably going to make somebody really mad at you map by the way just letting you just before I say this But why would I get in trouble for something you're saying? Because it's your channel. Okay But anyways, I am firmly in red hat on red hat side here because Honestly, I I've I decided I was going to start perusing through all the git logs Linux I don't see anybody from Alma or rocky linux in those git logs that that were never For commits being pushed upstream to red hat They're they're working entirely downstream. They're not pushing anything up towards sento s stream Which not not only benefits red hat, but also would would buy a benefit also rocky linux and alma linux So they're not contributing and then For the kicker to further insult red hat because red hat is spending Lots of money on the on developing red hat Of which they are working upstream with with fedora team as well as other distributions To to make sure that hardware works make sure that you know your desktop environment works a lot of it's mostly known but That's beyond the point. That's a further point, but at at this if uh They're adding insult here because the founder of rocky linux owns a second company too that sells support For rocky linux at a cheaper rate than what red hat supports red hat So now rocky linux is not only competing for like distro usage But directly in the same market that red hat is competing in While giving nothing back to red hat and while red hat is doing all the work Or rocky linux the only thing that rocky linux is doing is just having somebody making sure that a package builds correct in serving Serving it up on a content delivery network It's the same exact thing that alma linux is doing I mean, I think we had this whole conversation in the last podcast But literally all they're doing is making it so it's much more difficult to get around their actual like Their own contract. So basically what you're saying josh is if rocky linux and alma linux continue on the path they're going They're basically pirating They are basically pirating Well, it's not even really discussion. They're they're not necessarily pirating like money. They're pirating effort And uh, that's what i'm at and honestly like if I was sitting there and I was working on a project Then somebody else took what took my work and just started distributing it on their own own terms And then they started selling support for for that. I would feel a little cheated too I would honestly feel cheated we all Look, I think everyone understands the whole idea of rocky or alma is to undercut rel Like that's really the whole idea about it. You you get out you you get more support with those distributions Without paying anything I cannot believe I'm the only one on the other side of this argument again Okay, ma'am. Well, let's let's hear it. No, no, okay. I'm not gonna bother because last week I just got shouted down Anyway, so it doesn't even matter um I cannot believe that Okay, so The the contribution thing does bother me josh if that's true and I trust you if that's true that does bother me. Okay, that's definitely wrong. But okay, and here's the thing is the nature of the gpl does not require Contribution as long as they're not making any changes to it. Okay anybody can repackage anything that they want and repackage that's the gpl. That's what they do and After learning more about it after last week's episode because i'm i'm 100 convinced that the only thing that is true In this entire situation is that no one Absolutely, no one not even people from red hat apparently know exactly what's going on every single person that i've talked to Whether it's on mastodon or on discord or different places They all have a slightly different angle to exactly what's going on and no one knows exactly The precise reason why red hat is doing this the the effects that it's having on the the the The bug for bug clones or whatever, you know, all this stuff. Nobody knows what's that exactly going on my entire point about all of this Is that you have? Red hat has never made a single cent on their actual distribution never because they've never charged for it Okay, they do not make money On the distro. They don't make money on the sources. They don't make money on any of that stuff All of their money every single dime that they make comes from support Okay, just like canonical just like susa Okay, susa doesn't charge for their sources or any of that stuff they never have That's just not the way they've ever done it. Okay, it's just that's the app That's if we can agree on anything we can't agree on that they make money from the support And that's where red hat is coming from is that they they think that The elma and rocky thing is taking away People who would pay for otherwise pay for support and if if The rocky guy is subcharging for support then that is wrong. Okay. I don't think that that's Something that he should do but The original idea behind those distros was similar to the same that sent to west was and at one point red hat liked sent to west because it brought in more rel customers That was the whole idea behind it was for people who wanted to use it but didn't need the support They had one computer or whatever now we can talk about whether or not it's being abused and it probably definitely absolutely is but the Intentions there I think were fine. Now whether or not it's gone too far. We can argue about that. I don't I don't know that I've come down on this thing on kind of both sides at one point over the course of the last week because I can see both sides You know red hat has the A hundred percent right to do this and I think the one thing that we can all agree on whether you talk about You know whether this is right or not is that red hat has done an absolutely abhorrent job Of talking about this in the community like absolutely. I mean They've riled up people who who've never even tried rel in the at all. They don't even know what rel is They thought it was called red hat, you know, you they've managed to fire up the entire linux community Because they've done such a poor job of communicating what they're doing, right if they just also Let me tell you this companies when you make a mistake like this and you you are All right, let me rephrase it when you do something that this like controversial like this that you know It's going to piss people off Don't Come back a week later with another blog post Just do it. Just do your thing It's going to be controversial people are going to be pissed off at you for a little while Eventually it's going to people I mean people move on from everything, right? You know school shootings everything eventually, you know people just move on they forget about they move on to the next topic I I seriously just compared the red hat thing to school shootings. I just not comparable. Don't at me. I understand You guys understand you guys get to understand You understand the point is that humanity moves on from things fast You know the worst thing you can do is bring it back up and that's what Reha has done They continually to bring him back up And it's just going to continue to stay in the mindset of people who don't really care about it until they just stop talking And yeah, because the more they talk about it The with the with the second blog post they shot it themselves the first time they shot the other foot Yeah, they did they did it again. You're not good at communicating. Just stop talking people will stop paying attention to it And then move on now not everybody I'm people who use rel and people who use rocky and elma those people will still care But the general community will just move on even Even elma and rocky linux took it the wrong way. I mean to be fair. This is 100 percent the As far I I actually had direct contacts with red hat employees Like I am if I am a paying red hat red hat subscriber Like I have I have paid for licenses with them. I've spoke with the sales rep I've spoken with the support staff ever everybody that I've spoken to says that this is not an IBM initiative whatsoever Like what you're seeing being claimed in the chat. That is not the case But uh, this this is 100 percent the exact same issue as to why red hat actually stopped producing sentos Two years ago. You remember that story? It's the exact same reason because people were using sentos and they weren't contributing So it's just like if they're if they're not and honestly all red hat was putting extra effort into maintaining the Into maintaining the get to into uh, maintaining the red hat source code In the in that git repository. They were putting extra effort into that to remove all the red hat branding from the source code I don't know how pissing off the community though Makes people more interested in Contributing to sentos steam or stream Like if you lose your Whether or not you agree or disagree with them you you There's still a trust component to everything that red hat does and if you if you If you Whether you agree or disagree with them you can't deny that this has caused a kerfuffle in the the linux community And they continue and it's not like every linux corporation does this right? From time to time like a few years ago Ubuntu decided they were going to remove the 32-bit libraries, right? Pissed everybody off, right? They've done it multiple times but the problem is is that When you do it over and over again Whether you have people on your side or not you're going to cause a You harm your reputation. I don't think that doing that constantly Is going to solve the contribution problem that you were aiming to have but maybe they don't care, right? I don't think it's just about the contribution I think it's the fact that their business model relies on on people actually Like when when people need support paying for it and right now A lot a lot of the community that would be using red hat is using something like rocky or Or you know sentos getting support. I mean, you know, I would ask the question I would ask the question then how does putting it behind their account log and Bring in more customers because because if this actually pissed those people off the people who were using elma and rocky or whatever It actually drove people away from them. Let's just say those projects went away How many of those people that left rocky and elma would actually just say screwed? I'm just going to go pay whatever the fee is for rel Maybe some This is something that I actually asked the sales representative They said well, they can either Continue to use rock rocky or elma linux because it seems like those projects are still are still Going to figure out a way to way to work Or uh, they can switch up to sento a stream or they can switch to red hat proper Lighted lighted, uh, the red hat does offer free tiers that are not just a development That are not just a developer tier like if you're if you're an open source organization And you're producing open source code red hat will literally give you a free subscription All I have to do is just call them and they'll give it to you And And uh, that red hat support contract doesn't cover just red hat Because you know, I'm famous as a gen 2 user, right? That red hat support Support line will actually help me with gen 2 related questions Because there was there was a time there where the the last time I had to call red hat was like A few months ago. I called them and they're like, hey, I can get this thing working on gen 2 I don't know why I can't get it to work on work on red hat then and that person was able to go like Okay, so you're using gen 2 uh, what what sources are you pulling from like what what patches are you pulling from? Are you just using whatever gen 2 upstream is shipping? I'm like, yeah And they went down to detail what the difference between the gen 2 package and the red hat package was And it was actually kind of impressive that this person knew this right off the top of their head Even though they they they work for red hat not gen 2. I'm all for Them being able to charge for support and I'm glad that they do My my entire point was that there are people who won't Yeah, yeah, there are people that want and there's a reason why people will use linux because it's free And then they just have to refuse to pay for anything. Well, no, it's not okay That's the whole freeloader argument. There's definitely that component to it But a lot of this from a corporate standpoint a lot of the places don't want to pay for support outside of their own it Uh, you know it team they provide their own supports. They don't need to pay Some companies provide them support when they do their own. Okay, that's I mean Maybe it's a smaller portion than the people who are called freeloader In that case, you probably shouldn't be using rel like, you know Like I think the whole point of rel is you're not going to maintain. Let's pause it a Let's let's talk about a corollary here. Let's just say that canonical, which is a similar Corporation to red hat not as big doesn't make nearly as much money. It's not a public company. It's not owned by IBM. It's just canonical eventually. They'll do their IPO. I'm sure but let's just say they decided to make everything Behind closed you had to sign up to a some kind of term to service in order to use all of the boons All of it get the source. Yeah, all of it Would we would we all be 100% okay with that because they're a corporate they make all of their money on support I mean and there are way there are way way way more Derivatives of a boon to then there are derivatives derivatives of rel. Okay, there's like what three derivative derivatives of rel maybe four There are hundreds of a boon to derivatives If canonical said you can no longer take our source code and make derivatives of them that that would kill linux mint That would kill, you know zoren it would kill. I mean you could just name them off It would go on forever and ever I mean it's a all canonical at that point would really have to do is just put a paywall behind Repositories much like how red hat does it and they would probably kill off all the forks right and we'd all Can you imagine people? Being okay with that No, you couldn't No, if it if it happened if it happened on the debian level, that'll be even worse Right. I mean that that's that's the whole point of of my argument here is that We don't care as much about rel because it doesn't it this is not going to affect as many people It's going to affect the people who use rocky it's going to affect people who use rel or uh Alma a little bit if they can't find a way around it, which looks like they can't right But if this was on a much bigger scale and canonical did it We'd be throwing just as much of it probably even more and more projects would be think now the the difference Now the the counter argument to what I just said was that the vast majority of Ubuntu derivatives contribute back To upstream. Okay. So they have no root. I mean if which if josh's argument is true Is the reason why they're they're doing this is because of the contribution? You know linux meant As much as they hate ubuntu seemingly they contribute upstream, you know, you know all all of them Contribute back to ubuntu. Just like ubuntu contributes back to debian, right? It seems to that bit seems to be a system that works why it doesn't work in the rel ecosystem I I can't tell you probably because it has more to do with money than just people wanting to use the desktop, right? It's more to do with servers and stuff, right Well, the yes and and also most of the derivatives that are based off of rel are fundamentally made to skirt around like the enterprise support like that's Genuinely like I think that's why the like ubuntu comparison is so fair Just because most of the ubuntu flavors are just to set it up for, you know Have a out-of-the-box experience for for a different type of user. It's not to literally undercut the Enterprise or the moneymaker for the company which I mean most people the reason what you're saying is that What you're saying is that conical would have a problem if somebody just took ubuntu and made something else and called It was just actually ubuntu But they named it something else and and if if the whole purpose was to get around like they offered support for cheaper or like Like a lot of the uh discussion or support like discussions that would be Going on with their enterprise department is going on like in a community Form then like yeah, I think that would make sense like if the if the sold purpose of the derivative is to undermine the Like the way the company as a whole can make money Like I think that yeah, that's probably a problem I think that the biggest difference between the two is that And I know how many how many I know how much over the years canonical has pissed people off You know, whether it's the amazon links all over the place or the lib 32 stuff or Any number of times that they've made really poor decisions The one thing that canonical has done way better than rel ever has has been a community distribution Right rel has never been a community distribution. It's a corporate distribution. It's always been meant for enterprise It's never had a community facing component. Not real. I mean you could as a community member you could go use rel rel has other community facing things like fedora And you know sent to west when it was around right the actual sent to west those are there That is their community facing desktop experience for linux Whereas ubuntu is just you know, it's just ubuntu. It has a server back end but The thing that the community interacts with the most is actually ubuntu, you know, not the server stuff and there It also has always felt to me and and maybe I'm wrong on this but the canonical Developers and stuff I got seem to be out there more than the the red hat guys ever have been but mostly I think That's just a general community thing And the red hat guys were probably just in the you know the enterprise aspect of the community, which I I've never been a part of Right, so it just feels like they're not as out there, but they probably are I don't know but this is He hit this is why I talked about that second blog post that they made We're going to continue to talk about this as long as red hat does you know Yeah Once they stop talking about it I mean josh is the only one here that actually used or uses rel Right, the rest of us I mean We don't care at the end of the day. I mean It's not it's not gonna. It's not gonna affect us That's one and that's another thing I wanted to say It doesn't affect a lot of people the people who should be pissed other people who are using Something like alma linux and rocky linux Those people they're allowed to to to get pissed because this will hinder at In one way or the other They're They're favorite distro Those are very few people rest of the people like us we use either arch debian or or open susa stuff like that so We are not affected. That's not that that doesn't affect the desktop linux realm. It only affects The server realm the people who use the linux in a production world Us users and why are the regular users getting pissed? I don't get it Well, I that's because people have gotten so riled up. There's been so much fun And oh my god red hat is going close source christitis tech and all this stuff, right? Um And I think part of the next experiment made a video saying it's disingenuous Well, I I think it is definitely a sour mouth that what they did with the community and honestly like, uh I I think I mentioned that last week where she's like, yeah, red hat probably will get the community very upset Said because you know, they're removing source code So and that is a pretty big deal But uh, is is red hat proprietary? No, it's pseudo proprietary It's not proprietary because if you look at if you pull down to get the center of stream source code And you look through all those commit messages, you'll see you commit every now and go like release for red hat this version And in the get logs, so yes, you can still get the source code for red hat We never I don't think anybody here ever made the argument that it was ever proprietary because it's still you can You you can you can go sign up for a red hat account and grab the source code and then go running away It's giggling like a squirrel girl if you want to and still do whatever you want with it You know, you can do that. It's just they've put a A barrier that was no longer there, but I think the reason why a lot of people are At least the people who are you know more kind of knowledgeable why they got upset was because red hat has their fingers in so many pies Right and it's it feels like a trend of closing things off a little bit Whereas you know, it's a little bit It's just a little worrying because they have their pies and you know pipe wire whaling system D all this stuff that they support all those things but And that was my initial reaction too. I talked about it last week. I but I don't after Calming down about it a little bit. I don't I don't think that they're going to that their support of those projects is going to wane unless I mean IBM decides to just Laugh everybody, you know, I mean so so I mean a lot of the I think that the actually the the the red hat and IBM layoffs actually affect the linux community more because a lot of those developers developed on Projects the effect the broader linux ecosystem So that's going to have a much bigger effect than red hat actually taking thing And I think that that was a lot of nick's point was that, you know, this it has it's going to have some carry-on effects, but My last thing on this and then we have to move on because there's no way we're going to get done in four minutes damn it My last thing on this is that if red hat had been smart and they were and money was really The thing that caused of this which is probably was right. It's usually about money if they'd been smart they would have come up with a Contract or whatever that says hey Rocky and Alma you guys want to continue to exist continue to get our source Our source code is going to be going private in, you know, 90 days or whatever if you want to continue to do that Give us some money, you know, we're going to start charging you money for that Perfectly within the realm of gpl because you can charge for your source code very very easily It says so write in the license Just say hey Give us a million dollars a year or some whatever it is, you know Or more whatever happened especially especially if what josh says is true Is is that they have paid tiers if they're actually making money off from Other people's works. Well pass on some of that money back up back to rel that would have been the absolute solution I don't think anybody would have cared well rel and or uh, Rocky and Alma would have cared But the rest of us well, yeah, that's just normal everyday business, right? Anyways, um, let's go ahead We we talked about that We talked about that way longer than I thought we were going to Hey guys, welcome to the tangent cast. Yeah. Yeah, that was definitely no no I don't think that counts as a tangent. Uh, anyways, um, I will go next So the steam deck Is now the number one global top seller and steam I don't know how Accurate this can be now. I'm not saying that they haven't sold a lot of steam decks What I'm just saying is that it's the most expensive thing you can buy on steam and if that list is based on You know revenue, of course, it's the most because it's cost $600, you know, I mean, so I don't I don't know Exactly how You know, maybe they're talking about numbers Well, if they if they are talking about actual unit sales, then that's impressive um But yeah, anyways, the steam deck is still selling like hotcakes I I read that it was out of stock in the uk today because it's been 20 off Because of the steam summer sale. Also, thank you steam for having summer sale and costing me another 60 dollars Appreciate that and and Even even though with the rog ally, which is directly competing with the steam deck It's the steam deck is still beating the rog ally because Windows proprietary Who is in this much who is crazy enough to go proprietary on Also like that when Linux exists Also steam deck the steam deck has been Kind of in the news a lot more than ally ever was the ally had the review set and then everybody forgot about it People continue to talk about the steam deck over and over again when steam has a sale The steam deck is kind of in the news Um, so yeah, I mean it's cheaper than the ally. That's that's one big reason. Yeah. Yeah Well, yeah, what's up when those when the reviews said that was Competing on price with the steam deck. I was like with the upper tier steam deck. You can't get the Ally for 350 bucks Um, apparently they're coming out with a lower spec version later on this year Um of the ally, um, I don't know how well that'll end up working But anyways, yeah, and apparently and apparently they're they're working with Some company that's helping them create their own pin of Follow iso or whatever it's called the steam os for the ally Basically a linux distribution for the rog ally Has it hasn't steam said that they're eventually going to release like an iso of steam os that people can use Yeah, they still haven't released it yet But you know, it's it's not that hard to like replicate yourself I mean, uh, they're not really like doing any unique patches to the kernel or anything because you know All their patches are in an upstream kernel. It's just that All iso was able to replicate it and so were the uh, yeah Chimera os people. Oh no chimera os has been around for longer than the steam os has no, I know But they recently recently integrated all the steam os. Oh, I see what you mean Also before we move on. Hi, buddy. How you doing bud? He's high as well. He's free chill Have you chewing chewing up any uh headphones lately? There's none left All right, let's go ahead and move on to the contact information If you want to get contact with us, you can do so in any number of ways you can follow us on uh, mastodon or Any a number of social media? I really f this up. That's not usually where I start you can follow Follow us. Uh, you can find us. Good lord, man Hold on a second. I'm the linux cast I got it. Just I don't need your help. Oh, okay I I gotta prove that I can do this. It's good. It's okay. You can find us on the linux cast.org That's the website. That's where you'll find previous episodes all the way back to season one along with blog posts and stuff like that You can find uh email us at email at the linux cast.org Which is the email address. I promise I do read your emails I don't do a very good job of replying. I apologize for that I do pass them on when I when there are for other people, which is not very often usually it's just people You know saying, oh, you guys are idiots No, no, no, uh, no arguments there Anyways, you can find us on mastodon and honestly those links will be in the video description or in the podcast description If you want to find us there, you can find tyler. He's on youtube Uh, he doesn't know his password anymore though. I'm I'm highly convinced youtube.com slash zaneo g We might as well find you another link to share. Um, because that one you're you're you're dusty youtube channel It's just it's crying crying for content. Uh, josh is at tenley j.com slash stalkers Steve is a youtube.com slash zero linux zero with an x not a z Uh, why that's the case. No one actually knows I'm sure uh, and you can find zero zero. It means I know Greek sure zero means I know so it translates to I know linux lies um Anyways, you can find uh, all this stuff at the linux cast dot org slash contact You can support me on patreon at patreon.com slash linux cast make sure you hit the subscribe button on the youtube channel While you're there youtube.com slash linux cast where we record this live every saturday around three o'clock p.m Eastern time we were way late this week I apologize for that's why we're still Going and it's like 430 and I wanted to be done by now, but we're not we're only halfway through. It's okay. Um Just anyways, it's just I can't do the contact information. I told you guys it was a bad day. Anyways, let's go ahead and move on to the rest of the news so josh Your second oh, uh, so I have a favorite hardware manufacturer now that we're done talking about one of my favorite Distribution developers. It's called. It's this american company called system 76. You might have heard of them before Uh, you know, they used to do some sponsorships with podcasts shows and other stuff Not nearly as aggressive about the advertising as some other companies But uh, you know, uh, they're no longer making just computers Uh, they've they've been delving into keyboards for a little while now and now they have computer cases including a mini pc case for us any Is it made of cardboard? It is not cardboard. This is actual steel Of an it's not the Tyler. They're they're aluminum cases. Yeah, they're aluminum cases but uh They seem pretty cool. They're I I honestly think that they're more retro inspired than what people think that they are Because these cases these cases offer what what something that we haven't seen since uh, You know the the 90s with a dedicated air duct for the cpu. Oh, so is that is that a is that a key lock on the front? That could be a key lock on okay, then we haven't had those in quite a while either Well, actually that's the power button. Oh, I thought it because it looked like because you guys remember those Workstations from the past. They actually had a key that you could in order to open up the thing Hey had those in school so you couldn't open the damn things up Yep, that said, you know, if I was a rack mounting every single computer I ever run these days I would totally buy one of these cases because they actually look pretty darn good Let me know if this is just me being like a super mega cheap ass here but I've hit this point where I refused to pay $200 for a box of thin steel or aluminum Like I'm sorry. Well, I just won't do it. Okay. Here's the thing System 76 is a low volume manufacturer So what you're paying there is not the cost of manufacturing You're paying you're also paying for that engineering work done as well. It's why the keyboard costs $300 Yeah, it they can't subsidize subsidize the cost of engineering and designing those cases Uh, like they can't off of their other products like like other manufacturers can because you know system 76 is no silver stone Where silver stone makes basically anything But uh, it they're they're in that same category that like lee and lee is or like Uh, I think they're like the only other dedicated case manufacturer that I can think of And uh, like how noxua is for like a cpu or well not cpu, but just like fans. Yeah They're they're they're in that same category of of boutique manufacturing so, uh You're going to pay a higher price. That's just a fact of the day But you know in a system like this, it's just like yes, it is essentially a box I I recognize that it is But uh, you know It's not a bad looking box and it's got some cool It's got some thoughtful thoughtful decisions made in like how you're supposed to assemble the computer into the box I would have been happier if that front thing had actually been a key Oh, it said just a button. Sorry I mean Funny thing is funny thing is you can actually you can actually go to amazon.com Look at pc power button and they have dedicated power buttons that are actually switches that you turn that you engage with Yeah, I've seen those and it's a standard part That that matches into that into that case because the wonderful thing about these cases is that is that you can go to System 76 is getting a page. You can find every single measurement to replicate this case yourself so 3d printing this sounds like a really bad idea though, but you can't the the the thermals just like why is my computer melting? Well, the funny thing it funny thing is that unless you're like actually connecting that Connecting the actual die of the heat of the the processor or the gpu To the plastic itself It's not going to melt because plastic is actually actually requires a higher melt temperature What a lot of people realize for it to actually melt into and they make fill my warp first They make filament that's meant to be used with high temperatures. So it's not As if it'd be impossible, but that's that's really really expensive um And and to haven't to use enough that would actually Be good to You know make a piece of case if it cost you way more than it would to actually go buy the case That's it And I think Linus tech tips made a video about this before but uh, you know We're reaching the golden age of like the custom built computers because you know, uh, these little boxes right here are slowly taking over the world And uh, you know laptop sales are starting to see a rise again So it's just like it If you're going to build a computer Treat yourself a little bit with the case because you know, I've built in some cheap cases I've built in that $10 case at the bottom shelf before just whatever you do. Don't buy an nzxt case Just take it from someone who who has his nzxt case right now Yeah, uh, don't buy an nzxt case. It's just nzxt used to be a good company Well, I think that they're more modern ones that are more targeted towards airflow are good but they had this they went through this phase where Everything so I have the I think this is the five h510. I think that's the model. It's completely closed up There's like 10 holes in the whole thing Is that the one that has that has the intake fan? It's not an intake fan No, but it's it's got It has a little a little grill at the top a little grill at the back and then A strip of holes on the side everything else is completely closed off and while the temperature is not horrible I'm also not running like a 40 90 in it So I don't got to worry about that too much. But if you if you were actually using like a real graphics card It was like In my computer never gets below 50 degrees Celsius ever even idle do like I do do look like I do don't put the side panels on I live on a dirt road Immediately dusty I like my solution in the semi desert I like my solution best It's called I have three fans in the front of the case that blow at 100 percent speed 24 7 Those are the only fans in the entire case No At least mine's not Noise because my computer's in that room that sound isolated. So I don't have to hear it Just speaking about fan noise. I will tell you guys one thing um So I have like my my mini super mini itx build here and I had to put four extra 40 millimeter fans in there because I'm using a pico power supply Which if you don't know what that is it's like it's literally a power supply that like it's just as big as the 24 pin slot It just goes down in there and you plug it up to like a laptop charger um Anyway, I'm using that and so I need an airflow coming over that because there's there is no holes or anything on that side So I had to drill in spots put in two fans Uh there and two on the other side to keep some kind of airflow going over the apu and the ssd and stuff Anyway, um, I will say one thing I have I have finally determined that there is A cheaper fan than a noctua that is quieter at 40 millimeters And I have also determined that if you have any left over Xbox stuff And you take the fans out of there and they're 40 millimeters They will be the loudest fans On earth when my pc boots up all the fans go at 100 and it genuinely sounds like a jet engine Is turning on like my ears hurt. It's so loud But yeah, I you brought up fan speed did maybe think about that I mean if I open that door right there I think that I think the sound of all the fans going in that rack because there's currently five systems in there That are all running their fans at a hundred percent speed You could it's probably pretty noticeable even with the discord sound suppression All right, steve your second link, please We're very lucky, sir. This is a simple one The two minute one So basically more plasma updates towards plasma six And one of those fixes coming in plasma 527.7 Release will be a major performance Fixed for a major issue with intel gpu's that's Causing animate Issues when animating widgets with background contrast effect turned on Exactly that's it and they're updating the updating k Who uses a lisa music? Weird weird little thing gwen view is it's going to support the raw image files and that's about it uh, so Intel user only one here in the group You are concerned by this one I mean, I'm fine. We're I'm fine with my graphics that getting even better. It's already There's already been messaged There's already been some benchmarks that you know famous youtubers have compared against a 40 60 That's sure that my card's actually looking like a pretty darn good value Yeah, and I forgot to mention something about krunner krunner's auto complete will be much much quicker And faster and more accurate on plasma 6 when is plasma 6 coming to be next year on point but uh I'm okay with them taking their time As long as they give us more stability And for me to be able to log into wailand on nvidia without any issues so I can actually see what wailand is all about Sorry That scoffing in the background that you heard was me scoffing after you saying more stability and kade those two words don't go together Steve you know this No, wait, hold on. There's a way to make kade stable. Yeah, don't use it It's called use the debbing release that's been out for over a year now Right, there's your stable kade That is true But also one thing that I will say in kade's defense is I have I have heard a lot more kade developer start talking about um You know stability which is a very good thing to hear because I normally don't hear jack Shit about that is about the new features. I've heard now talk about the next kade release Because of because they want plasma 6 to be stable. I think somebody learned after the kade for release Oh We're seven point releases in already You're gonna get a few more. Okay, tyler your second one Mine is about the uh Linux 6.4 kernel Um, which I don't I don't know if everyone knows I mean I I assume since everyone has heard about rust entering the kernel and All that stuff you can just assume that more rust code is pretty much always getting added into the millennia's kernel Every release but uh, the big kind of news here is uh, there's going to be some support for the m2 silicone from apple which um I don't really think is that big of a deal Um, but I guess for a lot of people Uh, it is I thought um I thought most people who would be interested in linux would probably just be getting the you know, like A nice like a very good condition used in one chip And just playing around on that Mainly just because I don't think m2 is really all that big of an upgrade. So I don't think most people should be interested in it Um, but yeah, so I got a lot of support added. Um, the big thing uh, to that like kind of effects Um, I mean, it's not a big thing But it it affects a lot a lot of people is the amdp state guided autonomous mode So you can kind of look into that. It's I mean, it's It's obviously related to amd. So it might affect you and it might be something nice It really just gives you better performance and power efficiency for specifically rise in an epic CPUs. So That's pretty much it Good upgrade good update You own a mac just use macOS stop. Thank you. Linux on macOS car A chevy is meant to run a chevy engine not a runnel engine I don't know my fort winds are motor runs in my impala perfectly fine. Oh my god Well, classic josh comeback it also it also has spinners. I'm just I'm sure it does Well, I mean, I've also tried a body. It currently doesn't have any wheels on it Well, well, anyway, I I've tried a vahi linux and it is very good. It's just Um, it's a sahi not a vahi No, I who there's a vahi, then there's a sahi, you know, I mean, it's a bad name Well, no, it's just there are other projects with a very similar name No, but it's simply because the most all the developers on the sahi project are uwu based Style people. Oh, they had to call it something uwu Honestly, like kids these days Okay, so there's a couple comments here in the chat going like if you own a mac You shouldn't be using linux anyway or like, yeah There's a there's a certain point you can say that because you know If if you're using a mac that's older if you really want to use No, if you really want to use linux on a mac just use it in a vm don't deal Well, hold on Because apple depreciates hardware support too that linux doesn't What what is the last generation of macs that apple drops support for? I'm supposed to know this my my my own mac the 2016 yeah, yeah now That mac is still functional. Yes 100% Yeah, hardware is already 80% minus the battery. Yeah lighted. You're not going to get security patches But if you still want to if you still want to use That mac and still have a secure system or a system that supposedly gets at least security fixes Apple's not going to serve that to you So at that point you you now have to appreciate the the work that people have put into linux driver support for that device Oh Tell you why why is that? All purpose of a mac being a mac is to be used If for people that are using iphone and i'm using an iphone Good luck synchronizing an iphone and creating a backup of the iphone on the freaking linux Well, what if you didn't have the iphone? Would you still use mac? If you had an android i could see a point. What if you didn't have an android or an iphone? What if you're like me and you're rocking a pine phone? Well, you and This is a fascinating argument, but we need to move on All right, the the last news item of the day is the fifth hour workstation 39 may feature a brand new installer They've been working on a web-based ui installer for quite a while now and i've actually made a video about this. So it's it's um It's a better installer than the one that they have but it's not as changed as you would expect The anaconda installer I've never i know people hate the anaconda installer and i did two at first But once you get the hang of it, it's not horrible It's actually very intuitive once you actually sit there and take the time to actually look at it Especially if you're using fedora's everything install media rather than you know the the typical iso provided one The everything installer the the everything Install media actually really shows you what the anaconda installer is capable of and while yes It could be organized better and be Where do they post links to the everything thing? Uh get fedora.org alternative downloads is the very first link Called the everything It's called everything. Uh, they might also just list it as like the net installer too Okay I've never seen that one. Uh anyways guys. You can give it a look. It is literally the best way to install fedora It's like hurting cats. Um And then they're they're moving on they're not gonna they're gonna be using an anaconda web UI And don't think I've heard some people say like, oh, no, this thing is going to be extreme over the internet That's not what it means. It just means it's using web technology to code it. Um, I think they're using I do wonder though if like I might be able to use this for like remotely installing fedora on another system using this Is it using react? No, it's using pattern fly is what it's using it's it's it's actually a front end for cockpit that's hooking into python D bus to control that the And the the ui itself is written in react with using the pattern fly library. Yeah. Yeah, um I'm honestly surprised they didn't use flutter, but I guess flutter is too google for them Um, because flutter seems to be the new hotness. Um, but anyways, I'm actually not as excited about this as a lot of people because First of all, I know how to use the anaconda as it is So it's not horrible, but I'm glad they're doing it But the thing that I'm most excited about that they're working on now is dnf 5 Because dnf 5 is going to be the big shit when it comes out because it's going to be very Very fast compared to what she used now Dnf with fast dependency resolution. Wow. Yeah, it's gonna be fast man. It's gonna be great Can you imagine if they may it'd be like zipper becoming fast? You know With better mirror support, um Anyways, we're gonna be still alive when when dnf 5 comes out. People are using dnf 5 right now in rawhide. They're using it It's there. It's it's usable. It's just not it's just not has been it's not has been pushed downstream yet soon I don't I would you guys are dnf 5 and you can you can I'm just saying it comes with Rawhide now I think Yeah, um, but anyways, I would guess that that's probably going to be 40 not 39 But I could be wrong about that But it feel I used it. It feels close, but there are a few things there are a few features that are missing Um, so maybe that may be a bit further behind than I expect them to be anyways dnf 5 is actually what I'm looking forward to more than the installer But I know that a lot of people, um Really hate the anaconda installer as it is right now Um, I would just caution those people who hate the anaconda installer. The new one's not that much different um It's different, but it's not it's not gonna it's not revolutionary Uh, yeah, well, I would I would ask you this since you tried a beta version of installer How's the manual partitioning is better than anaconda or is anaconda better? I think you used an earlier view of it. It was quite a while ago So it's probably been changed, but I vaguely remember being about the same be honest with you um I that's what pisses me off about the anaconda installer when when you want to manual manually partition things I couldn't understand a word The reason why I wouldn't expect them to put a lot of effort in manual partitioning simply because they do not want you to Use manual partitioning. That's what butterfests is for Okay, you don't use partitions with butterfests. You use sub volumes. You don't need manual No, I mean I mean I mean they should It's another thing. It should allow people to use xfs Uh, no that they're right there never gonna happen. Okay, butterfests. I want to use xfs What right do they have to stop me from using butterf? I mean xfs Well, they're you're you have the right to go use something else Butterfests is why I created zero linux butterfests is the thing that they've chosen and that's what they're using. So, right? um, it's I actually think it's easier to use non-butterfests file systems on In fact, I know it is to use a non-butterfests on open suzer and open suzer is like the progenitor of a butterfests. So, um For for there was just very attached to the butterfests workflow. And that's the reason why they're so into the immutable thing um immutable here's here's a Here's a scenario with butterfests. You mentioned butterfests two second scenario uh, imagine You install a lot of packages like maybe 50 packages a day because you're a tester or whatever uh if you have butterfests and the default setting of grubbtrfs or snapper or whatever Enable You're gonna end up with a shit ton of snapshots You go into grub You have a scrolling list until tomorrow There are literal settings to it. You can do it. I know I'm just saying a regular user I forget about user knowing how to configure anything just using out of the box setting regular users don't install that many packages Yeah, use me regular users install that many packages because they're testing I want to see what that does what this does what that does what this does and then they will end up with a scrolling There comes a point where where you should be using a development environment virtual machine that you can just roll back to Via a virtual machine snapshot or or Alternatively nixos because that's literally what nixos was built to address. I'll have you. I'll have you know one thing josh I tried to try to create a snapshot of one of my virtual machines that's using zero Zero as a guest os Well allow me Verb manager will not allow me to create a snapshot because it says this virtual machine is not the type it should be Huh, well then maker You should be using q q call images and do a better job at making virtual machines steve gs Okay, I must be doing something wrong. Just don't know why you would set it up to where you're taking snapshots every time you install a package Well, there's a pacman hook for you what you could do is just use butterf s inside of the virtual machine There you go Problem or just what you set up butterf s and snapper just set it up so it only takes snapshots On timeline. Yeah, like, you know, I thought that's how everyone did it Well, I didn't realize I was doing something I digress I digress It depends because you can you can go both ways you can make it so that it just takes snapshots when you do updates Or you can do every time that you install package. It really does depend and also It depends on how your your package manager presents hooks because there's There's a script for arch lengths in the a or is called snap pack rub that will Not only every time pacman finishes the installation up After pacman downloads all the packages, it'll take a snapshot of the file system And then after it's done installing all the packages, it'll take another Snapshot and they'll automatically hook grub make config to generate a new grub configuration There's a package for that for debian as well. So it's not special The point I was going to going to make was that if you know what you're doing you can go into the snapper configuration files and tell Exactly how many snapshots to keep Yeah, you can tell you can tell how many to keep but you can use the one of the other thing that Josh pointed out butterf s assistant that thing does the exact same all you do the same thing Yeah, right. Yeah, that's what's included on zero limit As well as a snapper gooey snapper gooey. I think can also handle that But I think butterf s assistant does a better job overall. It does a better job and is created by the Got it with the people. Yeah, that's maybe a great wish Greta does some fine work. I just don't I just don't like the way that their distra looks see as about as much as I enjoy looking at zero linux at the end of the day But uh burn on that note. Let's move on to the thingies of the week fellas. So, uh, steve, you're thingy of the week, please My thingy, uh Of the week, what did I select? I forgot sublime merge sublime merge. Yes sublime merge Actually bottle license I said I bought a license for sublime text and sublime merge totaling 88 bucks special discount So I'm a distro maintainer or something uh Sublime merge It's amazing. I've been using it for the past what two weeks now And I've been I've been maintaining my repositories solely from sublime merge I'm no longer touching The actual files on the hard drive directly. I'm just editing the files in sublime merge save push git pull It's all done in there and when I want to compare files I'll longer use meld apparently because this thing has a potential Elk comparison thing within it like Okay, I didn't know that So, uh, basically I was I've been living the past week or two in sublime merge Because I handle a lot of repositories. I'm not talking about the package repositories. I'm talking about actual script repositories and the build the actual zero next build repositories I've been doing it all from sublime merge. It's very expensive For people. I was about to say it's a hundred dollars It's a hundred dollars for a regular license for unlimited license. Basically There's only one type of license. It's called unlimited license Uh, but can I ask you a question about that? Is that license in perpetuity or is that going to be something that you have to pay for again when the next time the major version comes out? I don't know because I haven't received the major version But apparently from what Steve you paid a hundred bucks for three years Yeah So 33 ish dollars a year Not oh, it's perpetuity No, that's for three years. It's a three year subscription. So in three years, you're going to be charged $99 again Oh, shit You better set a calendar notification to remind you I'm sure if they'll send you an email reminding you that it exists. That was the best thing ever like remind me to cancel it Yeah, like I had to remind myself to to cancel the uh the the the discord Nitro I ended up because I forgot to cancel nitro. I ended up paying for for a single month Don't ever do that. That's just it's just bad I never accepted that free trial. So Oh, I got the free. I got the free trial and then I got charged Okay, so I did because my entire discord server at one point was freaking completely obsessed with having icons next to their name I was like, well Fine, I'll boost for a couple months or for a month or whatever with the free thing So that people can maintain the icons beside their name and then I was like, why am I doing this? This is just It'd be different if you got something for ten dollars Like if you subscribe to a spotify for ten dollars a month you get spotify with nitro. You get emojis. Congratulations You have some and bigger file sizes. Yeah, which I don't share files on discord Anyways, that's what we have google drive and pcloud for I pay for those Okay, I'll give I'll give you another scenario for for people for paying for nitro Hmm high receipt They could share bigger files. So that's against to say that's a good way to get lose your um, oh, they've been saying What's it called better discord is against the to us, but did they do anything about it? No All right. Anyways, uh, josh, you're thinking of the week Well, I better hurry because it sounds like people are getting ready to shoot some fireworks here So, uh, I think I mentioned it earlier in the stream about my frustrations with youtube premium I have decided to come up with an alternative called yt dlp It's so good monetize Yes, totally going to get matt to monetize, but you know, that's funny part of it I don't earn that much off of these streams. Anyway, uh, that's that said, uh, you should pay for premium if you can Because you know, it's it's a way that we can Ensure that mac gets a monetizer, you know, click that join button, but I also have a join button now By the way too, I just want to plug that real quick. But anyways, uh, I I'm specifically using it For this wonderful device right here. This is a pine phone. There is no youtube app for the pine phone. Everything else is just a youtube client Uh, steve, uh, you got some beepers going. But anyways, uh, I I specifically use this because if I use anything like, uh, tube beater or, uh Free tube or anything they try to pull down the 1080p or the 4k sources for youtube Uh, this that makes that this wonderful pine phone here struggle quite severely So my solution is to actually use you is to use white tdlp to download the 480p in Uh resolution video That way I can actually watch it on the phone You know, maybe I shouldn't be watching videos on my phone to begin with anyway Yeah Sorry about the beeping guys. Uh, the power just went out. It's all good. It happens. We we did go over by a little bit Anyways, tyler, you're thinking of the week Also, audio is echo cancellation module. It's lit. You shall use it. Uh screw pipe wires echo cancellation module. It's shit Uh, it it does not work good at all. Um, I'll just use a pair of headphones That's lame. That's lame. I've been listening to background music this entire time. Having you guys come out Yeah, yeah, but like you got a pair of headphones I always wonder why the audio that I get is so shit from you guys now. I know why Don't you say that Don't you say that No, no, uh, when I'm using pipe wire definitely is shit. So yeah all right, but uh Speaking of which I don't think I'll be here next week. I think I'm going to be on vacation So I'm going to miss you boys. I want to miss everyone who's you know Chatting and and stuff. So you're always sorry guys, but Please try to stay out of trouble. I know it won't happen But try my thing either way just real quick is kate It is a wonderful text editor and I know people were complaining to me because I called it a text editor in my video But even they call it a text editor on their website. So don't add don't add me with that. Yes Um, it's an ide. It has a ton of features I know some people had some problems with like rust compatibility and some c++ stuff I don't know anything about that the For me It's probably the best markdown editor that I've tried in a long time It doesn't do a fantastic job of the font rendering and stuff like that. I don't care. I don't care about any of that Um, what I specifically want is a markdown editor that can handle a file That's like a hundred thousand words and it's actually Surprisingly hard for a markdown editor these days to handle a huge file like that. I don't know why Um them has always had I I know people say well, well, I don't have any problem with with them for whatever reason There's a plug-in somewhere in my system that just does not like that and I know We'll get rid of the plug-ins Matt. I like my plug-ins guys I don't want to get rid of my plug-ins. But anyways, um Kate handled the size of files that I need phenomenally well, uh like buttery smooth It was very very good. Um I'm not still using it because I'm on a window manager now again. Um But I'm probably going to install it on my Vm here that I've been doing my coding courses in and use that instead of vs code because Uh, I don't really care for vs code and the ui of vs code all that much Um, so that's my thing of the week. So that is it for this week We'll be back next week with more awesome news more rants. Absolutely. No tangents next week Promise you there'll be no tangents. Absolutely not. There will there will only be three I will post my devian review for next week And we and we will discuss nothing but devian because apparently devian's the cool kid right now. Debian's awesome We'll talk about it. Anyways, that's uh it for us before I go I should take a moment to thank my patrons. You can support me on patreon patreon.com slash linux cast next everybody who does support me there I'll links for uh, youtube and paypal will be in the video description as well If you'd rather support me on somewhere somewhere different. I'd no longer do Liberapay even though technically it still exists. Um, I've had some issues with them We can talk about this some of the time But anyways, thanks everybody who does support me on patreon You guys are all awesome without you the channels. We're not being we're near where it is right now So thank you so very much. We record this live every saturday at three o'clock p.m. Mr. Time if you want to catch us live Uh, we have a phenomenal time together guys. We have very much fun And uh, I enjoy my times with you every saturday Even you steve um I mean Don't you say that Without the three you guys my saturdays would be much less All right, that's it for us this week. We'll see you guys. It's fine. It's fine Come come play us come come play with zero ad with us after after the show and then tomorrow We're having a special version a special episode of distro hacking Well, we're going to be destroying traflotin's new post installation install script for fedora. Have fun with that Anyways, we'll see you guys next week Matt stop. Bye push my push does s h from from the episode repo I don't do that Who believes somebody's not reading to read me Like it's definitely not me you can literally go check and see that it's not me. That's what git does it keeps track of who does what I'm going to uh go ahead and stop recording now. Yes Because uh, I just get before the episode started I get pulled push got got deleted like who deletes King push dot