 Very good morning to you all. It's a great pleasure to see so many of you here this morning. We're delighted at this and it's my pleasure and my name is Francis Gurry and director general of world intellectual property organization It's my great pleasure to be able to introduce in fact two of the co-authors of the our global innovation index with many of you we've spoken a lot about innovation over the course of of the last years and its importance for economic growth it's key as a means of achieving economic success in a very competitive global environment and its instrumental role in helping us address some of the major Social challenges that we face and political challenges whether food security or climate change or health problems One of the things that has not been so apparent though over the years is how to measure the Capacity of a country to innovate And we have here the pioneers of that effort which is now the global innovation index and which is in its sixth year and Is rapidly establishing itself as the leading global reference for measuring the capacity of countries to innovate and that capacity of course is not evenly shared around the globe However, it is something that can be acquired and it's for this reason that we feel That the global innovation index is extremely important because we believe that it's paving the way to better and more well-informed Innovation policies around the world it serves as a benchmark to give guidance for countries in this respect There is a theme to it this year a particular theme on which there is some focus, which is the local dynamics of innovation and that reflects the importance of local hubs or clusters geographic concentrations of innovation actors and Infrastructure that are extremely plain extremely important role in fostering innovation So it's a great pleasure for me now to Introduce first of all Sumitra Dutta who is the original author from in his insid days of the index He's now the Dean and Professor of Management at the Graduate School of Management at Cornel University And he's going to speak first and he'll be followed by Bruno Lanvin who is known to many of you also And Bruno is the co-author. He's the executive director of the European competitive initiative of insid Sumitra, please Thank you very much Francis and good morning everyone The first half of 2013 has witnessed an economic pickup But its scope and strength has been less than anticipated last year Overall economic growth has and remains uneven across emerging markets and high-income economies While economic policy action continues to be largely focused on finding the right balance Between reducing debt and supporting demand the key question remains Where will future growth come from to drive the global economy? Where and how will future jobs be created? The importance of innovation cannot be emphasized enough in this context Policies to promote innovation lay the foundation for future growth productivity improvements and better jobs After a significant drop in 2009 Countries and firms have reviewed has have resumed investing in R&D and innovation Furthermore according to private data sources The gross expenditures on R&D in many top spending developed and emerging nations Have been characterized by a continuously positive upward trend since 2010 With healthy growth in 2012 and 2013 as well with countries such as Indonesia India Malaysia and China leading with double-digit growth in In terms of global use of intellectual property the recovery has so far also been swift and broad-based After 2009 we witnessed strong growth of patent application worldwide at rates Which are significantly higher than what countries experience before the crisis The results of the GII this year and over the last years provide testimony to the evolving global nature of innovation today The top 25 ranked countries on the GII are a mix of nations from around the world North America Europe Asia Oceania and the Middle East with while high-income economies dominate the list Several new players have increased the innovation capabilities and outputs Our GII results also provide evidence for the spiky dispersion of innovation The top 10 and are the same countries as in 2012 and the same holds for the top 25 Ranking still remains strongly correlated with income levels The spiky dispersion of innovation presents important challenges for policy makers and deserves further study One interpretation could be that innovation success leads to an emergence of a virtuous circle Once the critical threshold has been passed a Strategic issue hence is whether the threshold is one that most countries especially developing countries can hope to reach and Pass with additional investment Resources and time or if more is needed requiring shifts in policies and mindsets a Holistic view of innovation is aligned with the principles underlying the design of the GII framework Five input pillars capture elements of the national economy that enable innovative activities institutions human capital and research infrastructure market sophistication and business sophistication The innovation input sub-index is a simple average of these five pillar scores Innovation outputs are the results of innovative activities within the economy They are two output pillars knowledge and technology outputs and creative outputs The innovation output sub-index the simple average of these two pillar scores Each pillar is divided into three sub-pillars and each sub-pillar is composed of individual indicators for a total of 84 indicators the overall GII score is a simple average of the input and output sub-indices and The innovation efficiency ratio is the ratio of the output sub-index or the input sub-index It shows how much innovation output a given country is getting for its inputs The GII model helps to create an environment in which innovation factors are under continual evaluation And it provides a key tool in a rich database of detailed metrics for for refining innovation policies Now the GII is a collaborative project across Cornell University in Seattle in the Waipo and we are especially thankful also to Knowledge partners in the private sector the confederation of an industry booze and co who are they and do I shall now hand the floor to Bruno Lampard for his remarks Merci Sumitra. Bonjour a tutti a tous the GII covers this year 142 countries that means about 95 percent of the World population and almost 99 percent of the world GDP So there is a claim there that indeed The data accumulated through the pillars and indicators that Sumitra just described Should allow us to provide interesting diagnosis about how innovation is being carried out And what can be done in various countries at various levels of development To foster it and improve the efficiency of innovation investment There are three key messages that emerge from this year's GII the first one is the confirmation that indeed innovation is a global game It is not a game that is reserved for very advanced very rich countries We see success in innovation Sprouting from all over the the world The second and part of this first message is that indeed as Sumitra mentioned The the champions can be found in all parts of the world The rankings this year confirm the the first spot for Switzerland was already first Last year so congratulations to Switzerland Followed again by Sweden and then we have the United Kingdom the Netherlands the United States Competing the top five The second message however coming from gii this year is that there is a persistent Innovation divide if we look at the top 10 or the top 25 this year compared to last year They are the same they have been switches within those groups But the top 10 remain the same the top 25 remain the same Which means that there is somewhere an invisible barrier for Those countries which are not part of the the top groups and who are striving to become better innovators This persistent divide however is accompanied by good news and the good news come from what we call the innovation learners There are countries in all parts of the world who are making significant and rapid progress in becoming better innovators the second message That's the second message that in the game is global and it's becoming one in which progress is being seen in spite of a persistence divide the the third message is About the sub theme or the theme of the report this year the local dynamics of innovation GII compares the performance of countries it is based on data Collected at the country level Yet we know when we start working at innovation on the ground that much is happening at the Subnational or international level of innovation and this is something which is much more difficult to measure Using GDP or national account data What we see is that the hubs the clusters The local endeavors to better link universities Companies which can be of small size are not only becoming globally successful But they're also yielding new lessons about how innovation can be carried out. We see successful Experiments carried out in all types of countries emerging developing poorer richer countries And this need to be examined looked at and considered as possible sources of replication and scaling up across the across the world Last point clearly The press and the media are very interested in the rankings. This creates the boss Knowing which country is ahead whether your neighbor are doing better than what you are doing Indeed calls for attention. It is also a good way to stimulate energies But GII aims at being much more than the ranking of countries It aims at being a tool for action It aims at being a source of knowledge for the policy makers the investors the analysts who are Interested in making this planet a more innovative innovative place to create jobs to create growth to create competitiveness And this is why the Chapters including in the in this year's report Some coming from international organizations. I'm coming from from countries all focus on specific aspects on what can we do better on the ground To foster innovation So these are the main points. I wanted to highlight. We're ready to answer your questions Just before I open the floor for questions I wanted to mention that we also have representatives of the knowledge partners who Participated in the elaboration of the global innovation index. We have mr. Rashida Tayyub from Busan company With us a mr. Osman Sultan the CEO of do and mr. Lee ying Tao the president of Huawei Research and development labs Open the floor for questions if you could just present yourself before asking your question Jean Pierre Sorry, I'm Pia Coppe. No, it's your title. Just wanted to ask you the number of Patents filed or it didn't matter from what I see from the sub-indicers For their country rankings or for your calculations The number of patents file do matter and in fact this time we look at also the number of patents file in different countries Could you just tell me where it would? where it will show in It is in the output side or in the input side This is this is on the output side. So if you look at the knowledge creation, yes, you will see out there It would be part of the knowledge creation, right? Yes, Boris English on a local freelancer. I Have not read Analyzed and digested this report yet. I am a little bit started with the efficiency ratio Ranking, can you comment on that? Then I have another two question So the efficiency ratio is defined as the output score divided by the input score and It's really a simple way to look at it. It is how Capable is a country in transforming its input conditions into innovative outputs and it's an interesting Ratio because it is not directly linked to Income level per se at the same time we do recommend looking at the innovation efficiency rankings aligned with the income level of the country because at different income levels you have different levels of input and output scores Yes, but if you if you look at the individual Countries, which are at the top of the list in most cases Innovation just means that they still do exist the following day if you have Mali number one It requires some comments. I do not want to demean the innovative capacity of Mali I just want a comment then Is does this report contain or will future edition contain? Examples of the most significant innovations of the year of the past five years of the past ten years because one thing is to discuss innovation in statistics and another thing is to see One with one's own eyes and touch with one's own finger to know what all this talks about so It is very difficult probably to know what were the most Significant innovation in the computer industry in the past 20 years But I am sure that even if we don't know which one there are a lot of statistics about that so this I Would like to clarify. Thank you Yes, just to add to the the point made by Sumitra The the reason why so much attention is brought to the efficiency ratio is that it allows us to highlight the Performance of countries who have very little input Okay, including some of the poorest countries which have identified ways in which innovation can help their own growth and development strategies It's also important to keep in mind that one of the very very initial purposes of GI I Was to insist on the fact that we cannot reduce innovation to technological innovation There is social innovation. There is business model innovation There are all sorts of other ways in which innovation can be fostered So this efficiency ratio tracks not only the ability of poorer countries to actually identify Innovation as a way to foster development, but it also encompasses all these dimensions of innovation Tom Miles from Reuters. I wanted to ask a couple of questions if I may well first one is about Sort of from the the up the the gainers and losers in the rankings I noticed there are quite a lot of Latin American countries going up the rankings and the couple of Arabian Gulf countries Bahrain and Oman seem to kind of Really had a bad year and I don't know whether that matters or if that's part of a trend or if there's anything You want to comment on about that and the second question is about the the divide This idea that the same 25 countries the same are still in the the top 25 as well there last year It seems to kind of reinforce perhaps what we already know, which is rich countries are better at innovating and creating jobs through innovation and I Just wondered, you know for all the sort of Arab Spring and economic rebalancing and supposed Slowdown in Europe and Growth we're seeing in other parts of the world basically the the global Relative positions are not changing at all. I wanted if you see any Message in there or any significance in the future is there a chance of some country breaking into the top ranks and staying there You know, maybe obviously China or India the ones that people have got an eye on Thanks very much Well, let me make some initial comments and Bruno will add to it So if you look at Latin America as a region You will see an increased focus on innovation innovation policies in many countries in the region So what is happening in Latin America where be it? Brazil beat Colombia beat many other countries in the region You see there's a renewed focus to build on the momentum that they have gained in recent years It's a variety of different favorable economic Conditions and also good decisions made in various aspects of the institutional frameworks in these countries So I think there's a positive momentum driving Latin America and that is showing up in some of the rankings out there now in terms of the Middle East I have a lead Bruno comment on that but these rankings give a sense of how Different nations and different regions evolve over time So sometimes it is difficult to see precise big jumps among the top leaders From year to year, but if you look at the trends you do see trend which are quite interesting So in the top 25 for example, you see Israel moving up quite steadily and quite rapidly year to year and That's once again one example of how one country has made progress you see also The US has moved back in the top five and that's also a significant Improvement in terms of the US ranking in recent years Yes the regarding the the three points the changes in rankings the specific issue Regarding Europe for instance and the ability of any country in the near future to break out of where they are and into the top Very very briefly And it applies to Middle Eastern countries as to other parts of the of the world We have a worldwide index 142 countries. There is a crowding towards the middle starting with number 30 up to number 70 or so Any very small variation in the index can lead to upswings and downswings in the ranking So we should not be fascinated by these moves for one year to another We have as Sumitra said look at the longer term and the time time series This being said there are indicators of changes in policies investment made that translate into into results And these are the interesting stories the Regarding the the fact that the the rich countries remain on top. It is an undeniable Finding okay, and not a surprising one that indeed innovation performance is highly correlated to income per capita The rich countries do better. Okay, let's not hide ourselves behind our pinky finger This is the fact the good side of the story is that this hierarchy is being challenged We've seen countries middle-income countries moving up very quickly. What we see however is that the the seems to be a Qualitative barrier and this is why we've given additional emphasis this year on the output side of the model to quality quality elements It seems that there's a number of elements that have to do with the creation of a good ecosystem And I would say even a good social ecosystem around innovation. It's about entrepreneurship. It's about restaking It's about respect for failure. It's about interdisciplinarity. It's about openness which are very difficult to quantify and This are probably it's at least one of our hypothesis one of the reasons why we see this sticky Rankings behind the the top 25 and the rest so there's no reason why this will not be modified in the coming years And the important step is that people people become aware Policies make us become aware of what where the challenge is and on the last point about the Why what we see in Europe for instance, okay big crisis what we see is that Investment in R&D and innovation have been maintained So that says that somewhere there is a recognition by governments that innovation can play a counter-cyclical role We designed that last year in last year's report with the name of hysteresis Saying that the worst thing that can happen to innovation investment is a stop-and-go policy It becomes very very difficult to rebuild an ecosystem if you stop investing at some point in R&D And what we've seen in Europe in all the parts of the world in the US for instance Is that not only this investment has been maintained, but it has increased in a number of cases At the at the risk of repetition, let me just make a quick comment also I'd like to emphasize what the Sumitra has said that there is I think a much Greater consciousness around the world of the importance of innovation in economic strategy And you see that whether it is in Indonesia, which has recently established a national innovation council or India Which has a national innovation council the decade of innovation and so on you see it repeatedly across the world And that's very important and the second thing I'd like to say in this regard is that of course when you look at all of The inputs that go into this index then you see that this is not something that you can just pick up and change As far as your government is concerned your country is concerned overnight It's a very gradual movement Which requires a very much a horizontal broad-based approach covering everything in the whole spectrum of knowledge creation From your educational system in the passage of knowledge from one generation to another to the creation of new knowledge And the institutions and financial institutions and markets to support that so it's it's It requires a you know a medium term effort at least in order to change positions Just a small follow-up I'm wondering if you think that the world has got the sort of economic Governments architecture to handle a lot more innovation because a lot of the rich countries are You know putting money into this because they know that they can Milk it for one of the better word. I mean they can take advantage of it in the future, but a lot of countries I guess if they suddenly start innovating they don't have the Capacity they don't have the ability So maybe it's not you know, wouldn't be a good thing if the whole world started innovating because it would be getting ahead of the game Do you think something needs to be done before innovation spreads more? Well, let me say it's a very interesting question you asked Let me just give you a flavor. So there is there are multiple aspects to innovation And of course the economic side is one very important aspect in terms of end outcome But let's not also forget Why countries are investing innovation because innovation is also about inspiring people And if you look around the excitement The softer cultural aspects that Bruno referred to earlier Especially you focus on young people today and we know that young people in many countries including in europe have a challenge today in terms of Finding jobs in terms of finding the right career possibilities Innovation in terms of either creating their own companies innovation either in trying to you know create some new possibilities for their own future Futures is a very important way of Inspiring and motivating and creating the right in societal conditions So I think there's a very important social benefit that is also associated with innovation which we should not under emphasize Yes, if I if I may on the same Note Stress the fact that the world today is significantly different from what it was 20 years ago The hierarchy between the more advanced country and the less advanced countries Is is being challenged by many elements one of them is information technology We have global networks. You may have noticed and it should not be a surprise that we have two new sponsors Joining gii this year who are way and do and it's no surprise that they come from that world the world of it and telecommunications It's often said that internet has been the biggest revolution Over the last 20 years I would argue that this is not true the biggest revolution for the majority of mankind has been mobile telephony And what we are seeing now with the advent of broadband is a convergence of the internet revolution and the mobile revolution And in terms of innovation in terms of what this can do Especially for younger generations in terms of availability of knowledge sharing of knowledge Interfacing of ideas is is just tremendous We can't just imagine all the possibilities that this will yield on the front of innovation Hi, my name is masaki kondo gg plus japanese news agency just I'm curious Can you make a projection of the ranking? Let's say in five years later or 10 years later by looking at the current trend I mean, I understand this is a six editions Did you expect Switzerland? This year's Switzerland was ranked number one. Did you expect this situation happens back in six years ago? Thank you Well, so far we are not necessarily in the business of predicting So, you know, it's an interesting question in terms of how much can we extrapolate from the data data that we have today About the future Today, we are much more focused on trying to understand the multifaceted phenomenon of innovation And trying to understand how can we better measure it? such that Governments and the right decision makers in public and private, you know sectors Can guide the decision making based on the kind of thinking that we are proposing in this innovation framework But having said this your suggestion is a very interesting one for hypothetical You know analysis of what the future might look like we we don't do these predictions right now But in terms of found internal analysis, it's an exploration avenue to be considered Definitely And you also mentioned that this is the sixth year Of gii and once you pass the the critical stage of five year you start to have Time series you can also look at so the ability to Try and understand what the future could look like is also very much linked to the fact that we have already A certain period of time where we see things happening And when we look at what has happened so far, we see that it's full of surprises We've seen swings in ranking. So we know we hope that the future would be full of surprises So predicting is a very difficult thing to do, especially when it applies to the future as somebody said The we also must remember that one of the messages that gii delivers is that innovation is not an equation It is not about chemistry Where you know what you put this ingredient you mix it at that temperature and this is a result you're going to obtain Innovation is much closer to alchemy. There is a magical Phenomenon happening. There's creativity. There are young people coming with ideas that the previous generation had not thought of So we need to factor that in and when we factor that in again, the answer is the future would be full of surprises um Yes, Gunilla von Hall Swedish spanish dog blooded I have a question on the Nordic countries because I can see all the five Nordic countries here are very Among the 15 the top I think and do you have an explanation? Why this is or the similarities in in the policies in our societies that make us Make these good places. So do you have an analysis of this? Thank you I'd like to to make one quick comment and I'll leave the experts to give you a better answer None of them has resources If you look at the top 10 countries, it's very interesting, you know, switzerland lakes and mountains sweden uk netherlands us is perhaps an exception Finland, Hong Kong, Singapore, Denmark, Ireland, they're all countries without natural resources and that's not an accident. I think Yes, the The Nordic group is obviously a fascinating group for all of us Because they they are the good students. Okay, they sit on the front row and they get the good marks What is interesting is that there are common points and typically the one that francis just mentioned is critically important absence of resources Even if Norway right now is enjoying a good oil ride But it's critically where they started from Yet there are separate stories That is if we take the case of Finland, for instance Finland saw suddenly 75 percent of their external trade collapsed with that of the soviet union It created Nokia. It created a number of other incentives Denmark had other challenges, etc So they are within the same family different stories One thing that remains Across nordic countries is the high importance and value granted to education This is a common point which we see all across nordic countries investment in younger generation Is critically important in terms of generating innovation? Yeah, I just have a technical question and it's it well in the country pages Under creative outputs you have Abbreviations like Bn and pts. Could you just tell me what this means? It's it's it's a it's a ratio between Between patents for example and and the GDP I imagine but it's Every page on the countries each country you have on creative outputs or also under knowledge and technology outputs You have a domestic resident patents and then you have a AP which I think is applications, but then a slash bn Which I don't know and then ppps The bn stands for billion for what billion? Okay And the ppp stands for purchasing power parity. Sorry purchasing power parity. All right. Okay. Yes Sorry, Nina Larsen AFP. I was just wondering if you could say In line with what you said about the nordic countries what it is about switzerland besides the lack of Natural resources that makes it stand at the top and also What the u.s. Has done to come back The we often tend to include switzerland in the nordics for so many reasons Which is a geographical mistake, but economically there's lots of similarities There's something quite Specific about switzerland and sweden These are the two countries who have a top Record on all pillars of gi i So it's not just the fact that you are at the top. It's the fact that you are balanced. There's no weakness These are the two countries for which we have this spectacular result Yeah, let me just make a comment out there You know being at the top doesn't necessarily mean that you're perfect It just means in relative terms. You're doing much better than others So the rankings are relative rankings. It's very important to keep it in mind Now about the u.s. Clearly You know what we are seeing in america also is A renewed focus on trying to drive innovation as a national policy President obama has made that a focus of his efforts The u.s. Has a number of strong foundations on which to build Be it in tertiary education Be it in Technology outputs or even in the market sophistication or the business sophistication Where it does extremely well on both market sophistication and business sophistication ranked number two But what you're seeing today in the u.s. Is Examples in which local systems and local environments are pushing innovation very heavily I take one example in which we are involved at cornell very deeply in Which is the cornell tech project in new york where mayor bloomberg is trying to Drive innovation into the heart of new york city's economy And as part of the push he had a major competition invited Worldwide universities compete cornell was very fortunate to win that competition and our cornell is Involved in setting up a technology innovation ecosystem in new york city in collaboration With the private sector in collaboration with the city government And also very important in collaboration with a foreign partner university, which is technion in this case So you see this effort at trying to drive innovation even in some of the most mature parts of the u.s Geographically and from economic point of view and that I think is very telling of the u.s. Drive on innovation today Yeah shin from china's national television First of all, I didn't hear exactly what you say about the similarity between sweden and switzerland I didn't understand that if you would repeat that very briefly. Secondly, there are three index climbers uganda costa rica bolivia each Climbing about 20 places. That's really remarkable. What are the factors in your mind and for a Gigantic country like china. What does china have to do now so that it can maybe achieve similar result in the future? Thank you Thank you. I will let me try and sort the the point about latin america Just very quickly on the first one What is remarkable about switzerland and sweden is that these are the only two countries in the world Who are in the top 25 for every single pillar of gii So it's a very balanced performance Regarding regarding china. We we see two things which have to do with the middle income countries and bricks Which is hitting this invisible wall whereby building the ecosystem is becoming critically important what we discussed earlier In the case of china and it applies to other very big countries we also realize that Using national aggregated data Tells only a little part of the picture We wish we had data at the the province and municipalities level Because we have reasons to suspect that innovation performance would be different in different parts of large countries And again, it does not apply only to china But this might be an area for research that maybe we can stimulate in the country with chinese universities To actually take the gii methodology and bring it to province and municipalities level Let me just add a few words on china and then i'll talk about kosa rica you know, we are very pleased that We have of course an advisory board professor chen from beckon university and also Who are way with the company that grew out of china and a global organization as part of knowledge partner and China is today ranked 35th But what is interesting is that it is ranked third Amongst the upper middle income countries And china entered into a group of upper middle income countries only about Three years ago Before that it was a lower middle income country categorized as such so Even though it shifted an income category in the last three years It is today ranked third just after malaysia and latvia in that group. So it's a very creditable performance If you look at some of the quality indicators that bruno mentioned We are trying to increasingly talk about the quality of innovation as part of a matrix three examples If you look at the qs top three universities in the country ranking china is at position number ninth If you look at the high tech and medium tech exports china's ranked 16th in the world If you look at the citation and documents China has ranked 17th in the world So i think china has extremely strong performance And clearly the directional trends are that is moving the right direction But as bruno mentioned whether and how quickly will it break into the top 25 remains to be seen Now the question about kosa rica first of all Some of the big shifts in rankings are subject to sometimes small movements as we mentioned earlier sometimes There is a crowding of scores And so small shifts can result in sometimes small changes in scores can result in big shifts But kosa rica is an interesting example because that's a country that has always had a very strong foundation education Always been very open to investments intel as many of us know made a huge investment at kosa rica and last year one of Daniela benavente who is the lead researcher of the global innovation index and a wonderful effort in terms of helping to produce this She went on a mission to kosa rica and she had a discussion with the government And when asked which countries to the compare themselves against kosa rica officials said they choose malaysia and island As some of their comparative benchmarks So you see that this is a country that Is constantly trying to achieve at a different level and i think that's something which Are reasons why kosa rica is moving and doing well in this ranking if you look at some of the pillars in knowledge absorption kosa rica has ranked number nine If you look at knowledge diffusion kosa rica has ranked number eight If you look at high tech exports kosa rica is ranked number fifth If you look at communication information services exports kosa rica has ranked number eight So once again some very strong performance that drives the movement of kosa rica We have time perhaps for one last question because we have to be in the ecosoc high level segment for the formal launch with the secretary general of the united nations Thank you, which you're all welcome to join Ishiguro of your munition, but i think you might have explained it already, but i missed it So let me ask it to switzerland is keeping the number one position consecutively how many years and secondly In case of singapore it lost five positions is a particular reason for that Yes, so switzerland we've covered again very balanced steady performance on all old pillars In the case of of singapore We see a singapore still very high on the input side among the top performers in the world And the performance this year has been affected on the mostly on the output side Which is where we have introduced a number of new variables So these are clearly areas in which Singapore has not before performing as well as in other variables So this does not indicate any Any trend for the future we have reasons to think that Indeed we are going to see Singapore getting back up the rankings on the on the output side But again, this has been one of the main reasons behind the the differences between 2012 and 2013 And and the switzerland is keeping number one position this year how many years consecutively Two years. Yeah, it's been the second year there. Switzerland is number one Yeah, third third report in which is reported. Yes I'm told that ecosock is running a bit late. So we do have time for maybe one more question Okay Of course There is a whole chapter on the arab world and the arab world was traditionally known for high literary innovation and low industrial innovation so what does what are your findings And considering the new hubs in the arab world does that mean that Good industrial innovation requires low democracy and low literature Yeah, it's always Delicate to aggregate all countries in one group to Infra judgments on what works what doesn't work There is a high degree of variety in the arab world. There are different paths of development There are different stories different culture. What we see however, is that some of the fastest moving countries In the region have been indeed countries which have a high degree of openness That is these are countries in which the ability to attract talent To attract technology to attract Financing when it's not available locally as being critically important to the success What we see also is in the light of latest events on the political and social fronts Is that sometimes the the performance has been more difficult to track There's some countries in which we have not been able to collect the data that we wanted In others we see a relatively steady performance That is whatever the the state of the evolution on the political and social front We see that policies related to innovation investment where the private sector Is able to do etc have remained on on the course we had seen we had seen before We have also very good examples In countries like tunisia and morocco where follow different paths Where the the quality of high level education, especially in engineering school, etc Continues to translate into high power to innovate in the companies of those countries