 Do you want to do you want to broadcast slide there we go. So, look, I'll start. Let's go back up one slide for a minute. There we go. So, my name is Jen mixes old I'm the chair of this committee on ocean acoustics education and expertise. And this is the fourth in a series of information gathering panels as part of our committee process on outreach that you've all been invited for and I wanted to thank you right off the bat for spending this hour with us and and sharing your thoughts and expertise and ideas related to ocean acoustics outreach. The other panels that we've had have been workforce development, early career discussion, we had ocean acoustics education, and now outreach. And so all of these will be very critical as we get into the statement of work on our committee and everybody will have a chance to introduce themselves in just a minute. So if we go on to the next slide. Today's meeting is really, oops, we're there you go is really to collect information and perspectives from from all of you to help inform the writing of the committee's report and specifically to outreach. We have professionals and acoustics and ocean acoustics on really three different areas, general public visibility and awareness, which includes K through 12 students, their parents which we're learning more and more is important, and overall to identify how to reach out to a greater public and community to receive an overview of ocean acoustics and ocean acoustics outreach what's working. What's not working. This kind of grows right into the to the example of successes and challenges and outreach we are very the committee understands this is a very interdisciplinary topic, and it poses some very unique challenges for outreach, when we have such wide needs and applications now that ocean acoustics is being used for. So specific to the statement of work for this committee. We have compiled the next slide. We have compiled a very diverse committee, myself, I'm chair of the University of New Hampshire where I'm the director of the Center for acoustics and education. I'm Andrea on wireless from Penn State University, art bagger from MIT, these all huddling from I don't education. We're from the University of Washington, Carolyn Ruple from us geological survey. Gail school, school craft from your eye and Preston Wilson from the University of Texas, Austin. So we will be listening keenly today and trying harvest as much as we can from from the discussion. Next slide. This is our statement of work for the overall committee I'm not going to read the whole thing out, but really this outreach component comes in in two places. This is a demand for acoustics expertise as anticipated over the next, the next decade, and exploration of strategies to raise the profile of careers and ocean acoustics. And that includes education training workforce recruitment and retention. So outreach plays more than a role of just visibility but career opportunities to not just the science but the career opportunities that feed right into the workforce. So outreach is the lens that we are looking at this information through as a committee in responding to this statement of task. And a little bit more detail if you go to the next slide. The report will include information on. So outreach we've, we've learned already kind of spans many of these things but it will have a specific chapter. The report, bringing that all together as we move into recommendations of the committee so outreach we understand is key to education it's key to workforce development it's key to training programs. And that's one of the challenges that our community as a whole is encountering right now. So we have one more slide. Nope. Next slide is logistics, I think, and I'm going to turn this over to Leanne to talk about logistics for the next 55 minutes. Hi, I'm Leanne, I'm an associate program officer and the current study director for this project. And just general zoom meeting logistics please meet yourself when you're not speaking. When we have time for questions feel free to raise your hand. I see we do have some guests will prioritize the committee questions first but then when we have time will open it up to guests. And feel free to send any comments or questions in the chat. When you're speaking please turn on the camera. The session will be recorded for the committee members that are not here, so that they can watch it later on. But that's it and then next slide. From here. So, we're going to have a chance now to meet each of our panelists. And I think you guys get about a five minute introduction of who you are and what outreach that you've been involved with. I'll just go down my list here. John Ryan. You can introduce yourself first welcome. Sure. Thank you, Jen. And we're using our slides at this time or that's later. Yes, we can use slides. Do you send them in or do you just want to share your screen. We did send them in but I suppose we could also either one. Yeah, we go. Perfect. Perfect. Yeah, we'll, we'll is going to start us off. We're, we're one team. Okay, so we'll be hearing from John Ryan and we'll ask it. Yeah, actually, if you don't mind there are quite a few animations in here so maybe I could share the screen and drive a little bit. If that's easier. Yeah, of course. Cool. Thank you. We're informal and friendly here so we have the time to sort of bounce more to get the best presentation here. That's great. Thank you. Great. Yeah, so thank you for the invitation. Yeah, as Jen mentioned, my name's Will a strike. I'm a postdoc at the Monterey Bay Aquarium Research Institute. I work closely with John Ryan who will be speaking for part of these slides as well. Just to give an overview of where in the world we are doing acoustic ocean acoustics research and outreach and education. This is a map of the central California coast. You can see Mars is the Monterey Accelerated Research System it's a cable observatory on the sea floor outside of Monterey Bay. And it's very close to our labs here at the Monterey Bay Aquarium Research Institute or Imbari in Moss Landing California right in the middle of the bay and at the origin of that deep submarine canyon that runs off of Monterey Bay. And it's a really great place for listening in that it is very close to the shipping lanes which bisect the Monterey Bay National Marine Sanctuary and also a great listening location for recording the sounds of the life forms that live in this National Marine Sanctuary. And so here's an image of the hydrophone that's attached to this cable observatory at Mars. John Ryan has been leading this program since the summer of 2015 there's been nearly continuous recording, feeding near real time data to shore for both research and outreach purposes. John will speak a little bit more about that shortly. I'll just mention briefly that this hydrophone that we're showing here on the Mars cable observatory is really the centerpiece of this past acoustics program run out of Imbari but there are a number of other different more temporary nodes that we've had throughout the region for listening and learning about the ecosystems off of this coast. Just to highlight some of the things that we've been using these instruments to learn about. One species we focus on a lot because they're a great candidate for learning about behavior using acoustics is the blue whale. Some of the things we've learned is that they have daily patterns in their songs which indicate their behavioral state whether they're feeding or whether they're migrating south on their breeding migration. Using this ability to discern the behavioral state of individuals we found that these animals flexibly time their migrations to track interannual variation of productivity in Monterey Bay. More within this feeding season we're starting to use sound in particular a directional hydrophone or an acoustic vector sensor, which can point to where these sounds are originating from to understand how these animals track dynamic and patchy pray in Monterey Bay. And finally starting to dig deeper now into how these animals are using long distance communication to facilitate social foraging and collective migrations. We've also focused on the impacts of human noise in the Monterey Bay National Marine Sanctuary. This is work that John led a couple of years ago, showing that reduction and shipping noise in the deep sea during the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic, and showing that this noise reduction was highly correlated with changes in offshore shipping traffic in this region. Finally, most recently we've been going to some more cryptic animals that are hard to study in any other way really other than acoustics using this long term passive acoustic monitoring program to study the behavior of sperm whales off of California, showing that they're present year round except, despite the extreme rarity of sightings of these animals, and also using some combination of simulation techniques and actual empirical observation of these animals acoustically to understand their seasonal migration patterns in the Northeast Pacific. So this is all just to set the stage for some of the research and discovery we've been focused on but then how we're sharing that through outreach and education which John is going to speak a little bit more to here. Well, and the discoveries are really fascinating and exciting. And many people in our audience including primary and secondary school students are fascinated by the discoveries. And yet just letting them experience the sounds of life in the ocean, we found to be just really both wonderful engaging and inspiring to the return of all ages. So, one of the places we've done this is through developing on public exhibits that are anchored in tourist destinations actually with the, the to Noah. The Monterey Bay Natural Marine Sanctuary visitor centers these are free and open to the public and school groups come through, dropped off on a bus, and as well as many tourists, and basically, we were fortunate to work with Lisa Utah and others at this Center for the first exhibit, where they helped us understand how do you engage the public how do you deliver that, both experience, and in this case that is hearing, seeing and feeling sound. And how do you leave them with a message, a take home message, all in 15 to 20 seconds per species. And that for this center and then another one the Coastal Discovery Center in San Simeon and added some new sounds for that exhibit. So next bit there will. Yeah, we have a live stream in a recording library, including an Alexa skill that you can put on your smart speaker and I don't know if you shared sound will did you when you shared screen. We will find out shortly. Are you all hearing this. No. No problem, a little reboot. If you. Here we go. I think if you stop. Good soundscape to play humpback whale. Here is a six minute 43 seconds recording of a single humpback whale song. They can repeat their songs for many hours. So when we were first trying out the Alexa skill. These are my co workers daughters who, who, you know, naturally questions out out like a fountain. So last little bit there will is Alexa. Oh, the mobile exhibit we take a mobile exhibit all over the place sanctuary. Well the exploration center in San Francisco which has a huge attendance, K to 12 classroom visits all the time. You know, one of my favorite audiences actually are the very young children so so last note here is when when I first went to a preschool, there was a young girl sitting in a beanbag a four year old, rolling around in the front and then I asked the question what is sound and she stops rolling around in that beanbag. She starts gesturing in front of her mouth and she says, you can't see it but it moves. Yes, you are on to it. So anyway, thanks for listening I sorry if we went a little over there but on education outreach is really central to what we want to do with our soundscape project. Thank you. Thank you so much both john and well. We're going to tease apart that more that was pretty cool with the Alexa. I had a question. I'll ask my question later. Let's give a welcome to Kathy business proposal. Hi, I sent in some slides. Who's bringing those up so your sofa. Yeah, one second. Okay. There we go. All right. Yeah, so I'm Kathy business proposal. I am the co P I of the docents discovery of some of the sea projects with gales go craft who I think you guys know. And we've been doing this for over 20 years now, you know communicating underwater acoustics research. So my deep dive into underwater sound came through my master's degree at the University of Rhode Island, and I was in biological oceanography and starting to know of the importance of acoustics in understanding our ocean world and the use of acoustics by some of the animals and what we're trying to do is actually start to use acoustics to do passive acoustics modeling of survey efforts. And so in addition to having visual sightings. Can we do passive acoustics. And so a simulation model to investigate, you know, how well do we need to know our marine mammals and their vocalization behaviors to do statistically valid surveys. And so I think my deep dive into acoustics is really kind of similar to a lot of other grad students where, you know, there's an interest in underwater acoustics but it's really not my primary focus and I wasn't getting a PhD in acoustics. So I was able to take sort of signal processing and underwater acoustics courses at you are I that complimented the other sort of marine biology and geostatistics classes. And I've got my PhD and I still continue to work in underwater sound looking at the effects of sound on anthropogenic activities. I'm a principal scientist with an Inspire environmental which is a small consulting firm in Newport Rhode Island. I'm also part time faculty with the Department of Ocean Engineering and adjunct with the natural resources sciences at URI. I've heard of several thesis committees, some of which are for marine affairs students so again are tangentially interested in underwater acoustics. But you know it's not their main focus and so it's great when there's opportunities for students who don't necessarily have the deep dive at an ocean engineering student would have for them to have those outreach opportunities. One of the projects I've been involved in is a capstone project for ocean engineering undergrads and so as seniors they're required to take the capstone project, and they've all been exposed to acoustics with one course as part of their bachelors of science, but then they get to choose a focus and so it's great that they've had that exposure, and then it's even more interesting when they, you know a handful of them select acoustics as their capstone project. So they start to understand that multidisciplinary nature of ocean sciences and are working with a lot of panelists. So my focus today really is going to sort of talk about what we've worked we've done with dosage as we've conducted several needs assessments of the underwater acoustics community and I think, as you guys mentioned in the beginning, you know that's really a broad audience of K through educators, informal educators, undergraduate and graduate faculty, you know and then more recently we've been working a lot with decision makers and regulatory agencies, and the media and how they report on science and so for many of these community members, you know they're interested in underwater acoustics and they can be ambassadors to much wider audiences and so having resources available for them is great. So my thoughts today are going to focus on creating hooks that can capture the attention of potential community members and then draw them in and want them to be part of ocean acoustics, and then providing resources at a variety of levels that this diverse group of members can continue to spread accurate knowledge. So if you go to the next slide. As part of our needs assessments we've done this profile so looking at who the community is, and what their backgrounds are and so, again, the last few years focusing on decision makers, you know less than half had had formal education related to 49% have a master's degree 32% have PhDs and then 53% of those are in biological sciences. And so, you know we have decision makers and regulators who are making decisions about ocean acoustics who may or may not have had any formal training. And the majority of them have had on the job training and so it's, you know professional meetings that they've attended conferences that they've attended. And that that really on the job, you know, quick and accurate information is critical for them. And again, and then often they need to make decisions in, you know days to months and so they really need something that's easy to digest. They do use peer reviewed literature, technical reports and other government resources and databases. And similarly for K through 12 and informal educators. There are state science standards that have acoustics as part of her for sound units. And so there is that opportunity to weave in underwater sound. If we have appropriate resources but again, you know their profile is that they don't have that acoustics background and that they really probably need to find a resource that they can quickly implement in their classroom. Next slide please. So thinking about kind of those hooks of how we can bring interest and increase interest as I mentioned you know sound is a topic within state science curriculum standards. And as john and will mention the informal educational opportunities are fantastic and so providing kind of easy to implement resources that the tie into specific topics is a great way to, you know hook in that community. And also exposures to careers related to ocean acoustics. A lot of times when you talk to students, you know, they don't see those connections and they don't see any opportunities, besides, you know, going and teaching at the university. And so providing exposure and that diversity of how you can be part of the acoustic community is a great is a great mechanism to again hook them in. There's a lot of media attention to underwater impact at both individual animals and at the population level. And then how can we monitor or reduce those potential effects and again that's something that's very high in the media quite often. So next slide. So finally so we've what we found is that the educational resources that are of most interest are internet based self driven tutorials where people can look, learn that science background and provide those resources for them to develop their own learning. Providing workshops either multiple day or short courses, where again tagging on to an existing conference or some kind of other events. And of course it's team has put together webinar series since 2015 and it's just blows my mind how many people come to these webinars and we have 600 to 700 people on each of our webinars and it's just been an amazing resource. And then we also archive those webinars so people can we watch them offline if they can't join during the the active time. And then again short educational videos that kind of YouTube generation that we've come to, to know and love. So, so those are my thoughts. Thanks for the time today. Great. Thank you so much Kathy, and odd Puccini, you're next. I hope I said that right. It's owed. Oh, good. No worries. And if it's okay I'll share my screen. Absolutely. It's amazing that we're in the field of ocean acoustics and so many times it's the the acoustics part of presentations that give us challenge. Good morning everyone good afternoon. I'm a researcher at the University of Hawaii and Manoa. Today I'll talk a little bit about our teaching at the lab as well as our reach. See, can you guys see that okay. Um, so the marine mammal research program is part of the University of Manoa. It's the largest campus of the UH system and it's committed to being the leading indigenous serving university in the country. Currently we have several department formerly teaching acoustics, including oceanography, electrical engineering and physics. Our lab is at the Hawaii Institute of Marine Biology or HIMB and I'm sorry my toddler just woke up. I'm so sorry. I thought 7am was going to be a perfect time. And HIMB's mission is to advance our understanding of marine life through innovative science and education that honor people in place to benefit Hawaii and the world. Formerly our lab focused heavily on acoustics so our PIs were Witlau and Palm Actable that many of you probably know and at the time we did have four more acoustic courses. Since then we've shifted more towards ecology holistic approach to study marine mammal health and conservation so we do not offer an actual graduate course in acoustic. We still have very strong collaborative effort with our partners locally. And they include NOAA, the home back well sanctuary, as well as the University of Hawaii Applied Research Laboratory. Currently our effort at the Marine Mammal Research Program in terms of teaching through graduate students consist of hands-on experience and project based project based. Just a few of the projects that are happening. One of our students, student Kirby Pernell is studying the acoustics of Hawaiian monk seals and I have a little clip for you that Kirby may use. Can you guys hear that. And that's a big hit for all of our outreach. When we have students try to guess the sound they love to listen to the whoop that monk seals do. This is the first time believe it or not that those sounds are recording in situ. Another student, another student is studying how marine protected areas provide some sort of shelter acoustically for pilot well and false killer whales here in Hawaii. And finally, we are looking at home back well communication from archival tax. We have a lot of undergraduate student opportunities, either through directed research while they'll gain credits, and they can assist with data collection and acoustic analysis. Currently the formal acoustic classes we suggest students take are through electrical engineering and they are offered every other year. Unfortunately, so we highly suggest to students take summer classes such as Friday Harbor. When needed, we have identified that students will need to take calculus or formal acoustic courses that has come up a few times. And as everyone can attest here we always emphasize taking computer programming classes. One thing I really wanted to cover today is our smile program or summer intensive marine memory experience. And this is Kirby Pranell and Virginia Madrigal's project. They've created this course and apply for the funding we're just really here to support them. They are in their sophomore year of this program. It's a summer course where students will spend between a week to 10 days at coconut Island at HIV with us to learn about marine mammal science. The course includes formal training field trips where they'll, you know, dip a hydrophone and listen to spinner dolphins or pilot whales depending on what they see out there. They have workshops, pure bonding exercises. And this is for senior and junior students in high school. So far they've had 21 students, 61% are native Hawaiians and 83% are from historically marginalized community communities. Some of the metrics, seven of the eight seniors that graduated this year are going to college. Some of them have shifted their emphasis to marine biology. They had a big pool of applicants last year for the first year they had 42 applicants for 10 spots. And this year they get 84 applicants from all islands here in Hawaii. In total they had over 30 speakers from 10 organizations. They created a website reports. There's a voice of the sea. This is a Sea Grant documentary that's being recorded this week. Many testimonials from the Department of Education, instructors, parents and obviously the students and a great media reach. It made the news four times and UH also covered it. And that was funded through a variety of funding agencies. And we recently get awarded a two year be wet, which is the Bay watershed education and training that support locally relevant and authentic experiential learning. And my last slide is about our outreach efforts. As everyone here we do a lot of guest lecturing. I was recently part of the marine molecular marine molecular mentorship program at HIMB. That's led by the coral resilience lab that was actually features in Netflix chasing coral. So we we try to have our activities really focus on connecting the local community to their backyard we found that a lot of students and even adults have never seen among seal have never been out on the water and see spinner dolphins. So we really try to to bring that closer to home. We have a strong social media presence. Three of our media stories combined have reached over half a billion viewers. And finally, one of the one of the effort we're really proud about is is bridging that gap between science and art. We will be part of the symphony of the Hawaii and see in 2025 working with the Hawaii Symphony Orchestra. And last December, we were very fortunate to be a part of a collaborative effort with your Yoma and the hope layer, which is part of the Polynesian voyage society. Where we all met aboard hope layer, which is a canoe that uses the traditional Polynesian way of navigating to listen to your Yoma perform on the road to the whale so I'll just play this little clip right there. And the funny story is there's actually a humpback web reaching right here that everyone on the boat completely missed because we were so captivated by your Yoma. I'll stop here because I think I'm running out of time. Thank you. Great. Thank you so much. Thank you all for being here. And we have about 30 minutes and I think you all sort of got an update or you've got the outreach panel task here and I think we're really going to focus on two topics. One, how do we as a community raise awareness and visibility of the value and importance of ocean acoustics to society as a whole. And then, number two, how is it that outreach events or efforts can recruit people from different fields, such as music, marine mammals, other places because I have a feeling if anybody is like myself and many other on this panel we didn't go to school in elementary middle school high school saying you know we're going to be in ocean acoustics. Most of us fall into it by happenstance. And so how do we create a better environment with higher profiles for careers in ocean acoustics. And so let's go with the first one first. Your thoughts on how to better raise awareness of the value of ocean acoustics to society and that's all ocean acoustics active acoustics passive acoustics. All different areas of acoustics. So, so I'll let who wants to go first on that one. It's a big question. And you're all doing it in different ways but what are the what are the key things that you focus on in your outreach. Yeah, I think, you know, as we experienced on this in this meeting. Hearing the sounds produced by ocean life allows people to immediately feel a connection to it. And that's just, I feel like that's at least in the outreach we've done. That's the most powerful way to to get people engaged. Then that's a great opening for explaining how the ocean is a world of sound the relative importance of light and sound flips when you cross the air sea interface. And why do we, why do we study sound in the ocean how does it reveal the lives of animals we otherwise really can't see. And why is our noise a big, big issue for for their lives. So that's sort of for me the, the entry point for raising awareness. Who wants to build on john. I'll contribute. I would agree, you know, we have the audio gallery as part of the Dose its website. And it's one of those areas where you know you can lure in people from two to three years old to, you know, 300 years old And it's like, and they don't even think about it, you know, it's like, what does light being sound like underwater and they're like, Oh, wow, make, you know, it makes a sound like what does rainfall sound like underwater. And then you get into so why do we care about rainfall while there's climate change there's changing, you know, weather patterns, you know, and by measuring in places where we don't have vessels and we don't have, you know, we see, you know, we can put out these certain recorders that can make these environmental measurements and you can again lure them into deeper content and I think I think it's a great mechanism for making them think about it. And then bringing it around to so why do we use sound or how is sound used by so many animals, you know that light doesn't work, we need something else and it's not just everything out there isn't just noise that it really is sounds that are being used for a very important purpose. Thank you. Another way to think of it to for is all of all of our panel speakers today are from coastal states you have ocean. You know, bordering your states, one of the challenges that the community has had in a whole is how do you reach the sectors. We're not on the coast, you know, there's, there are aquariums that are not on the coast, but we tend to, we tend to sort of concentrate our efforts coastally. Has anybody had experience. I think john said they they have a traveling exhibit and so forth. But how do you notice a difference between people who live on the coast, and experience the sound and that connection versus those that don't. I think we'll have his hand up then you disappeared there he is. I'm going to yield to will here because his hand was up first. I think the comment I had is not as relevant to this particular question so I'll circle back. Well, I yeah just one thought that your question raises to me is, you know, in terms of the theme of education, what we found is, when we open up our data and free open source analysis tools to access it and use it. We've been surprised for example high school student actually is now got a web app. That he's brought to international meetings that he's gotten approved by UNESCO as a resource and it's, it's a, it is a high school student living in nowhere near the ocean, who has taken up ocean noise as a particular interest and now developed a tool that takes in data from many places and gives you a global picture of ocean noise. So in this case I don't, this student was just very interested in how we understand the ocean, because it probably because it is a strange environment relative to his everyday experience. Yeah, I wanted to follow up with what Kathy was talking about the environment and awareness of the environment. There was an old experiment that Walter monkey believe it was proposed to look at the ocean tomography sending sound from the Indian Ocean to the Pacific basin. And we could measure the temperature of the oceans and changes in the temperature of the oceans. And so in terms of climate change, the ocean the big buffer of the earth is something we could monitor that type of experiment. But of course with this group we all know that those type of frequencies will be damaging to marine mammals. And so it's kind of a trade off between trying to monitor our planet in a way that is also safe to the animals that are in the ocean. And so that's a whole different avenue of research, but I guess I'm trying to get out as active and hopefully passive acoustics that we can use existing sounds in the ocean might be a way to move forward to monitor changes in the ocean temperature. Thank you. To going back to the question about coastal environment, I think I think it's really dependent on the community reaching and generally speaking going to have coastal communities that never bow in the water, never, you know, and and and we saw that with our smart program so those kids that never been snorkeling before and we live in Hawaii we're surrounded by water. So I think there is you know component that is is community based and not necessarily geographic. Will had his hand up. Yeah, one thought this is maybe a little bit more forward looking or maybe others on the call are already doing this but I wondered about the potential for more. You know, speaking, building off of Odes comment about like community science about making this work more participatory to understand help people understand what is occurring and just have a deeper sense of connection to this ocean acoustics work. I've been involved with project that uses open acoustic devices audio mocks in a terrestrial bio acoustic setting to be a part of a research project that really mostly a community outreach program where they're sending a large number of these audio mocks of folks around the country to engage with soundscapes and their, you know, everyday life. And, you know, as these sorts of tools become more and more available in the ocean as well. Things like the hydromoth version of this open acoustic device. I think there is a lot more potential for not only sharing the sounds with folks but also sharing the process of capturing those sounds with folks to have a deeper sense of connection there. I think Kathy had her hand up next. Yeah, thanks. Building on what will just said I was going to actually talk about some work that we're doing as part of the UN Ocean decade for sustainability, where there's, again, and so that the interest of increasing communities that are involved in work, and that you can do sort of citizen measurements, whether it's in a river or even in an aquarium, you know, even a little fish tank that you, you know, 20 gallon tank you might have in a classroom. And that if there's, you know, something that's less expensive and really easy to use that we can start to have people going out measuring all kinds of different things and then providing that access to them. So I think we're going to put some backup technology and then signal processing and you know that slowly gets them in deeper and deeper as they go and I think there's a lot of opportunity, as, as old mentioned it's context based of bringing communities in with what they have within their, their, their reaches. Think john had his hand up. Yeah. This conversation is just reminding me of another pathway to reaching students and, you know, as importantly their teachers. So there's this is a program called earth education and research testing hypotheses it's run by George Matsumoto here at the University of Missouri. And it brings in teachers on their summer breaks funds their participation because otherwise teachers have to fund these things themselves. And it teachers work directly with scientists to develop curriculum for their classrooms. And in that sense, you know that they're more likely to be used than just like handing off a kit because the teacher actually co developed the content. And that I've is a very effective way for reaching primary and secondary education. Good point teaching the teachers to teach. At her hand up. Thank you. Yeah, so I had two points I was talking to the coral lab and some of the outreach effort is to have the community plant or coral and I was like well we can't do that with marine maps we just can't bring you know a bunch of the community to look at dolphins that becomes a little challenging. But but I think there is some really promising avenues with acoustic data and and researchers sharing their data making it open access and having you know format like flak where it's easily downloadable. And not like those massive files that we've all had to deal with in the past. I think what's missing perhaps is we don't have an easy affordable plug and play system that teachers can take with them. There's no app like there are for some birds where you can download it for free, you know, put your, your phone next to it and you can tell within seconds which part is singing it I think that's, that's kind of maybe the disconnect we're still struggling with is a hydro form is is never 10 bucks it's never 30 bucks it's it's it's always kind of an investment for teachers or for educators so maybe for me, it's it's kind of one of those gaps that's difficult to bridge. And I think that awareness and visibility are everything that you guys have talked about really have spoken to awareness and visibility. One of the challenges that that we're tasked with as a committee is how do we take the next step and go beyond the awareness and visibility to say you can make a living this way. We can have a career what are the different career options, and I know that like you and age for example we have a second day to our annual acoustic symposium where it's careers and ocean acoustics it's a career development day where we invite businesses and federal organizations and so forth to come and say, this is what I do in my job and this is how we use ocean acoustics. How do we better as a whole as a nation in a community recruit people from different fields into acoustics because we're learning as a committee, but there's a there's a big gap in where where people are getting their education and what type of education is needed. So those that are going to see an operating calibrating systems at a marine tech level, for example, have a very different education and job than those that are teaching in a university or developing sonars for military use. Any thoughts on how to better at not advertise but recruit into the community that this isn't a valid career path. That's more than just the visibility and interest. You know, a day at an aquarium or or in a class, how do we as a community better highly profile career paths and ocean acoustics because there's also there's so many. People don't even know. Oh, sorry, I thought I saw a hand up. I did. There's a hand up. Yeah, I'm like, I thought I saw a hand. Three hands up. Yeah, I, you know, for what it's worth and perhaps saying the obvious but these engaging documentaries that that we find whether it's fathom on Apple TV, or, or, or even brief video and audio that you find on docents as long as the students can be steered to these inspiring stories. I think that's just a great way to open up their consideration of possible career paths that involve ocean acoustics. Liz had her hand up next. Thanks, everyone. Everyone. I have a couple of thoughts on that. It is challenging obviously because there's such a wide, you know, range of possibilities. I think that was developed recently by remain a special interest group at I'm Russ. I'll put a link to it in the chat is a summary mammal career matrix so not you know obviously a static document but and not not a proponent for static documents ever because you lose people really quickly but, but I mean something along those lines. Something people can dig into in order to work out what potential pathways and what skill sets are needed for those pathways might be a form of digital tool might be useful. I, it's a challenge. It's a challenge for us we kind of realize that there needs to be more investment time investment and getting people really familiar with things so we've gone with the apprenticeship kind of model it's low stake for us because you limit it in terms of time but make it long enough they can gain something so I don't know how hooking people is easier when you have a shorter, shorter thing they can bite off into if they want to get a feel for things. I think that's one of the people that we've had in our apprenticeships basically were not appropriate. They figured out they didn't like it. So I mean that's a good way of working things out so more more kind of opportunities or involvement like that, where folks are, you know, getting a real sense for things, but I mean that's that's for people that you want to potentially train and have worked for you so. No, that's a good thought because sometimes learning what you don't want to do is as valuable as learning what you do want to do. So those are the people that we would we want to target because then they're retained in the field not just recruited. So that's a good point retention versus recruitment. Thank you. Other hands but I saw another hand but who was it. David. Data is very useful. Having a web page that just lists all various employers that are trying to hire acoustic people who do acoustics. What the salary ranges are how often, how many people are they hiring per year, so that you know parents are advising their kids to go into a certain discipline can say oh look at this is all kinds of great careers and ocean acoustics. And so we actually had that information, all assembled on one web page site that would be easily accessible. That might be helpful. We talked about the new blue economy and all these new potential jobs that will be available. But there's no one place you can go and kind of see them all together. And so maybe something like that might be helpful in encouraging students to see there's a pathway to careers with a certain salary range and so forth that might intrigue the students and the parents. Thank you. Yeah make it validate it right yeah this is a credible this is a credit credible. Oh, I completely agree with David I get a lot of students asking what the salary ranges it's it's surprising but it comes up a lot. Another thing I think on a webpage like that is the path because we, you know, we take physics and acoustics is a module with light and electromagnetic field and it's just a little section of physics and then some of us to you know, oceanography or biological oceanography and we use acoustics but linking the two is I think where the disconnect is so we take calculus and we learn about derivative and integral, you know, integration and it's just we never connect all of this until we get to grad school and unless we have a project where we have to apply all of that. To me that's that's that's one of the big disconnect and that's where we see students you know that that have to take more calculus because they don't understand some of some of the the processing that goes behind analysis. I'm projecting that need earlier, rather than later is very key then you get into the timing of what competencies are required for different careers. Yes, I think that you're right and the list was a good idea. And I even took notes here saying, we don't need just a list. We needed some cool jazzy graphic that groups the different career paths by competencies so people are no upfront what they need to do to get in each kind of career path whether that be military, or R&D engineering for sonars for policy and management, you know, they require different different skills and competencies and you're right. I think as you know there is no one place to really get that right now. Yeah, it's not the bag or calling I'm having trouble getting into this conversation, but can you hear me. Yes, go ahead art. I've been frustrated by doing this on iPhone, which is my last resort. I have two comments on actually three and recruiting. We find and the MIT would told program. And this is for the program globally. So it's not unique to ocean acoustics. The biggest attractor is the program we run for high school students between their junior and senior years. We select 40 of them and it's very competitive. And we host them at the oceanographic and assign them a mentor. And that is the biggest yield for us in terms of students that wish to matriculate into the program. And so I cast that out is a very effective and selective way of recruiting things. The other which pat recruited myself and I know a lot of my colleagues is we were engaged either at a university or a laboratory where out of the blue we were assigned to be part of a program that used, which involved acoustics but used a lot of our physics and engineering. And this is the ideal one for myself, because I came out of college with an engineering science background and this is something that acoustics demands. My final thought which goes to nearly a comment maybe several comments back. I was intimately involved with Walter Monk's Hurd Island experiment. It was one of the PIs with Walter. And it was an experience. And we certainly did attract a lot of people to acoustics. But some of it was good. And a lot of it was bad because of the dispersions we cast on how we were going to kill every whale in the ocean, and which has turned out not to be true. It did higher, higher sensibilities about how much sound we could make and led to the Navy's N45 program. But it has had a lasting effect. And I can tell you right now it's an important one. This planet faces a problem of ocean warming. It's very big in the universe, in the newspapers now, because of the intense storms that we're getting. We just had a torrential rainfall here in Boston. The problem is that it has so tampered our ability to put these sound sources in the ocean to do bass and ride acoustic tomography. We call it acoustic thermometer. And we argue that it is a very viable tool for monitoring the health of the ocean temperature. It is a way that can go on morning, noon and night for as long as we want it to work. But unfortunately it's been hampered by a lot of bad press. And so we need people that can become involved but also know their physics and engineering well so some of these things can be set aside because we do need this. And it's one of the two methods of sampling the ocean. The other one of the Ray folks wrote so the so far floats that rest a visit scripts. initiated two decades ago. We could have had decades. Yeah, we have people popping up with hands to respond to some. I don't see the hand, so I'm just going on. So box that I haven't been able to be part of this conversation until just now. All right, so I would just conclude that somehow we have to change the situation and we need educated people to do it. Absolutely. What the hand that popped up Gail committee member question or response. I just wanted to address the comments that were made about having one stop shop for careers online related to what the career is like, what the preparation may, what preparation may be required and what the salary information might be. And I just wanted to let folks know that we have that on the dosage website there is a career gallery. It is strictly ocean acoustics related. It's not extensive I think we have 16 or 18 ish careers highlighted there with links to the Bureau of Labor and statistics so they can get up to the minute salary information. But I want to let you know that it is literally the least hit area on our website and we get millions of hits a year on the dosage website. So we're maybe doing something wrong. If this is something that could be really useful, because we'd like that to be visited that resource to be visited more. It just may be that we're not getting it in the, the hands of the right people but I did want to let you know there is a one stop shop that we expanded and and improved with the community's assistance. It's cool to that you have stats on it that it is unfortunately the least visited. So that's something that we can capture also on how to do that I recognize that we are very close to our time if not just going over time there's one hand up. So, Kathy if you wanted to do a last comment. I think, I think careers are critically important, but I think it's also the journey and people have mentioned the path and having, you know, paid internships so that students who can't afford to pay for summers, you know, pay to go to grad school or pay to take a summer off to be part of something, you know, that they can be, they can start to understand what the path is to get to a career and start to develop those skills and I think that that's, and as we mentioned, you know, capturing them early enough that they get the physics and the math so that when they get to grad school and they can maybe dive deeper that they have they've had that path and they understand that that transition and the journey that needs to get to that end goal. That's a good point and that's something that I've heard recently in other places that I've been is not just the career the end career but the path, the career path, and even promotional paths to advance in a career is important. And so that's something that we're hearing now. I'm hearing at least over and over from different sectors that I interact with. By, are there any other comments from the committee members before we end our time together. I just, I just want to say thank you to our panelists. This has been really helpful to us that will be charged with writing this section especially. I'm interested to learn about what's happening at your various institutions obviously I'm very familiar with dosage but I wasn't as familiar with the rest of the program so it was great to hear about it. I will also echo all of our panelists thank you for your time and sharing your thoughts. I learned a bunch of new things, which is excellent. I also reinforced some of the other messages that we were receiving from other information gathering panel so having those same messages reinforced in different in different places in different conversations is really a good take home message for for this committee. So I thank you so much for sharing this time with us and I hope everybody has a good day or evening, depending on what time zone you're in. Oh, I should also say to any of the panelists if there's something that you're laying awake tonight thinking oh I should have said this or shared this, please send an email to either me or anyone on the panel. If there's something that you think of afterwards that we should consider and think about as we go into our report writing phase. Thanks for the opportunity. Thank you very much. Have a great day. Thanks.