 Welcome, I'm Mark up to grow the president and CEO of the LBJ Foundation. This evening we're pleased to present a conversation with Chuck Robb about his recently released autobiography in the arena, a memoir of love, war and politics. Senator Robb's book is aptly titled, he has spent most of his life as Theodore Roosevelt called it, in the arena, engaged in military and public service. As an officer in the Marine Corps, he became a White House social aide where he met and soon married Linda Bird Johnson, the daughter of his commander-in-chief, Linda Johnson. Soon after their spectacular White House wedding, he shipped off to the war in Vietnam, where he would earn the bronze star. Later, he would become Lieutenant Governor, then Governor of his home state of Virginia and would go on to serve two terms in the U.S. Senate. Signed book plates of in the arena are available at lbjstore.com. Our moderator this evening is Dr. Mark Lawrence, the director of the LBJ Presidential Library and a Vietnam War historian. And now, please join me in welcoming Senator Chuck Robb and Dr. Mark Lawrence. Well, thank you very much Mark and welcome everyone to what I think is a really terrific opportunity to hear from one of the really terrific leaders and remarkable public servants of recent times. Governor Robb, thanks so much for joining me and thanks especially for joining this event with the Friends of the LBJ Library. I'm really sorry, of course, that we're not meeting together on the big stage down here in Austin at the LBJ Library, but I look forward to seeing you down here, I hope, before too long. It's a great privilege nonetheless via this pandemic-enforced technology to speak with you about your remarkable life and especially, of course, about your wonderful new book in the arena of love, war, and politics just published this month. The publication date, I think, is right about now. I will say for myself, I really enjoyed reading this over the last few days and was really impressed by your ability to weave together little nuggets of memory that are so fascinating and at the same time to sweep across long periods of history and to comment on the broad currents of American politics and history. And I enjoyed as well the really wonderful forward by President Clinton. Let me jump into all this, Governor Rob, by asking you about your decision in the first place to write such a book. Why write a memoir? Well, I recognize the fact that I'm not going to live forever, at least to the best of my knowledge. And when my own parents died, they both lived to their late 80s, late 80s, right? And now I'm in my 80s and I've already passed the life expectancy that you is very arbitrary. But any event, as Bill Clinton used to like to say, that I've got a lot more sunsets than sunrises left or don't have as many sun in any event. He had a clever way of saying that frequently. And I've obviously not quoting him directly. Any event, Bill and I have been friends for many years and I very much appreciated his willingness to give such a nice forward. And I think it's an interesting read and a number of friends who have known me over the period of time that we've known each other had very nice things to say about it, said, I learned a whole lot about you that I didn't know. But we just had a personal friendship, but we hadn't explored each other's backgrounds. So that's what this is an attempt to do when I'm not here. Now, explain the title in the arena. Where does that come from? That comes from Teddy Roosevelt's speech. It's always been one of my favorites. I won't give you the long version of it. And I recommend anybody you can just look probably in the arena. Teddy Roosevelt would be enough. But he said something that I thought really represented what I wanted to say. It doesn't sound like you're promoting any particular approach to life. It just says, here is what life is about. And if you want to be a part of that experience, you got to get in the arena and that it can have ups and downs. Again, it doesn't foretell a particular end. It just says, if you want to be a player, get in the arena. One of the arenas where you. Achieve great things. Is the arena where you both start and end the book? And what I'm getting at is your service in the Marines. Why did you choose to start the book with the Marines and also in just a phrase or two at the very end, end there as well? Well, for all practical purposes, particularly with the LBJ Library and the interest that was generated because of my introduction into the Lyndon Johnson family, my life really began in 1967. And I wanted to put on enough of what preceded that. So it didn't look like I was suddenly born on that particular date. And the Marine Corps clearly was an important part of my life. Always has been, always will be. But most people simply don't know what happened before I suddenly showed up at the White House to say I do. I want to come, of course, to 1967 in just a couple of moments. But you do have a few wonderful chapters in the early parts of the book that discuss your earlier experiences. I love the way you captured your childhood. You write that you lived an existence that was neither charmed nor particularly difficult. Tell us a little bit about your your boyhood and how that led you on the path that you ultimately took. Well, it was clear to me that I was going to be I wanted to serve in the service. I grew up basically my awareness of what was really happening in the big world occurred during World War Two and followed by the Korean War. And I knew that I wanted to serve and would serve. And so I had an opportunity when I was in college to select a particular branch, in my case, the Naval Service. I started off in a land-granted institution. Everybody had to take ROTC. And I went into NROTC and then I eventually got the scholarship that from the NROTC that obligates you to accept a commission in either the Navy or the Marine Corps for at that point, four or five years. I don't remember exactly what it was then or now, but after you have been commissioned. And so I had sent my course, at least in that respect, early on. And I have absolutely no regrets ever about that course. Sometimes people ask me, what was the most important decision you ever made in your life? And I made the first decision before I'd ever met Linda. And so that the Marine Corps and their ethos and their discipline and way of life and the way they approached challenges was all a part of my DNA early on. It's striking to me that you entitle that first chapter where you sweep across the early parts of your life, the road to Quantico as if that was the end point of all of those early experiences. And yet I'm also struck by the fact that there are some moments in your early life that don't necessarily fit that narrative of all things leading to Quantico. Tell us about an experience that I've just learned about where you went to a dude ranch as a boy. Well, my father had an adventurous spirit. He had instead of going he and my mother both grew up in an era when their parents were quite successful and they were able to send them to very highly regarded prep schools. And my father chose instead to go to the Aeronautical School of Engineering in New Mexico and become a pilot. And and he worked in that field for some a number of years. And then he always wanted to he had an interest because he'd done a basic, basically homesteaded at that particular period of his life in that area and became familiar with the dude ranching business. And so he and my mother decided that they would basically put everything else aside and move down and contract to operate a dude ranch. The first one of those was in Sonoyda, Arizona. It's one of those blink and you miss it. Size towns were the school teacher. I went to a one room school which covered this first six grades. It was taught by the wife of the owner of the only gasoline station in town. It was it was that small. So I didn't have a whole lot of extra advantages coming in, but I didn't want to try to suggest to anyone that I had a difficult life. I mean, I lived a good life all the way through, not with ups and downs, to be sure, but I wouldn't trade it for any other life. Now, you were spectacularly successful in the early stages of your career as a Marine. You were an honor graduate, in fact, first in your class at Quantico, no small achievement. What was it that made you such a success in that arena? Well, I like the competition. And you're in competition with others that you believe are the strongest and the best and the brightest and whatever. So you know that you're not in an easy competitive environment. And that's a challenge. And that's always been a challenge for me. If it seems a little tougher, not an impossible dreams or whatever, but something that is achievable. And if I stuck to it, I had switched colleges and undergraduate and that was not the most successful part of my life. I had had good grades all the way through high school, from elementary school up through high school. And I thought that it was a piece of cake. And I was a national merit finalist and I got a full scholarship. It started out at Cornell, but I had a good time. I hadn't been exposed to the big time. I'd lived in a more rural type environment for most of my formative years. And I got up there and I found there were pleasures that I had never had an opportunity to enjoy. And if there was any time left over, I would study, but it was not my best reform. I passed all of my subjects in engineering, but I wasn't thrilled by the course so much. And I realized that I could have done better if I had, and the requirement for the scholarship was you had to be in the top third of your class. And I was not in the top, I've passed everything and I was just short of the top third. And so I, in effect, lost the scholarship. And at that point I had to find another way to finance the remainder of my college education. I could have stayed there, but I didn't have the money to stay there. And then I looked at other opportunities. I had a competitive appointment to the Naval Academy at that point. I had an opportunity to get a competitive NROTC regular program scholarship. I decided to go ahead and accept that because I didn't want to go back and repeat the whole first year. That for many reasons might have been a good choice on my part. In any event, I was pretty well focused at this point that I needed to do well. And fortunately everything worked out well at Quantico. And that gave me a credibility that otherwise I might have had. If I just suddenly appeared out of thin air at a White House wedding of which I was the groom, I would have never, I probably would never have developed the kind of self-confidence that I had, which I had relied too much on in my high school years, because it all seemed to be easy. I liked STEM subjects, math and science and whatever. And it all seemed very easy. I had to apply myself even more. So I was determined that I was going to make sure that I didn't slip in that process again. Now you wound up at the White House. And of course this is where you met the woman who had become your wife. But before I come to her, tell me about your impressions of her father, Lyndon Johnson. What do you remember most from first meeting this larger-than-life man? I normally tell people that whatever you have heard about Lyndon Johnson is probably partly true. And I can elaborate on whatever they have heard and most things that most people would consider positive and things that others would suggest are a limitation. I thought he was a remarkable man. Whenever he was in the room, he was the room. And I worked at the White House. I had several, what I called, very plush assignments before there. My first assignment was to be the executive officer of the Marine Detachment on the USS Northampton. It was not known or public at the time, but that was a designated command ship for the President of the United States in the event of a nuclear war. And we did have President Kennedy and his cabinet came aboard during that particular period of time. In advance of this interview, we collected some questions from the friends of the LBJ Library. And here's one that comes from our audience, although I think it's probably one that's on a lot of people's minds. Tell us how you met Lynda and how difficult it was to get to know her amid the public spotlight that no doubt shown on the White House. Lynda and I have different recollections of our very first meeting. She believes it took place in the White House. I believe it took place at my then assigned duty station at Rainberg's 8th and 9th Streets, Washington, D.C. But I had come to thereafter these assignments on the Northampton and I was the aide to the commanding general of the 2nd Marine Division, had deployed overseas a couple of times. And I was very anxious to then receive orders to report to what was then called FMF-backed Fleet Marine Force Pacific where I knew there was action and I wanted to prove to myself that I was as good as the Marine Corps seemed to think I was. I had to get out and improve myself with the Money Boot Marines. I had several assignments that ended up being great assignments, but they didn't allow me to get in. And I had an unfulfilled desire on my own part, purely personal, to just prove that I was worthy of the honor the Marine Corps had bestowed on me. And as I say, that made it a whole lot easier because all of the difficulties that almost anyone else would have coming to the White House. I stood right next to President Johnson on most of the state dinners and or other big functions and I would introduce the people who came through the receiving line. I would give their title, in most cases he would know that already and their name, in most cases he would know that already. But it's just easier for anyone who is the focal point of a receiving line to have somebody giving them both the title, if a title is warranted, and the name and they can immediately engage in a sentence or two of greeting. But Linda was much more prominent at that particular point. She would frequently, as the eldest daughter of the President of the United States, would be invited to come to events and she would be expected, in most cases, to have an escort. And she was kind enough to pick me to be her escort. And we got to know each other up in the Solarium where we would sometimes retire at the end of a state dinner to play bridge. A couple of times it was with ambassadors and their spouse and the four of us would sit down at a bridge table. It's a great place to look out. You can see all of Washington. Lights are on. It's a pretty scene. And it's entirely private. I don't know of any photos. I guess during at least one subsequent administration, somebody took a photo, I think, in the Solarium itself. There are probably a lot of photos around, but it wasn't well known, but that was a truly private place. Even the Secret Service would not stay with you in that area. They would obviously restrict any traffic coming into the White House or into the upstairs part of the White House. Any event, that was the environment into which I was introduced. And fortunately I had nothing but good experiences. And we hit it off early on. And Linda has always been a collector of books and illustrated and authors. She's got more friends that I haven't heard it over the years. And she would frequently meet with some of those folks and or go take trips abroad. And there was a bibliophile of great distinction who invited her to go over to England and meet with Ernest Shepard. And Linda whispered to me, as we're saying goodbye, and this is in the book, she said, when I get back, we've got to talk. And suddenly a light goes off. I may have been missing any number of signals over the period of time, but I started thinking seriously about it. And we got, when she came back, I think the very first thing that we were able to do was the first thing that we were probably ever invited to as a couple. She had some other very high profile boyfriends or whatever at that particular time. But anyhow, Jim Ketchum, who was a member of the White House, he and his wife invited us to come over to have dinner shortly after Linda got back. And we had a great time, a couple of other couples with us. It was the first time we had really been a couple, not just Linda and her escort. Any of it. We came back to the White House, went up to Slarem as we often did, talked for hours, I guess it was. At some point, it was probably very early in the morning. We were all very worried in the book. We decided to get married. It wasn't the usual somebody, the perspective. Husband gets down on one knee and has a diamond ring to present to the love of his life or whatever. We just reached a mutual decision. And it felt good. And Linda wrote about it. She was in writing for McCall's magazine and later for good housekeeping. But she wanted to she was very excited and wanted to go in and tell her parents. And this is all covered in the book. We have the excerpt from that particular period. And her father, when she tried to sneak into their bedroom, they were already asleep. And she tried to sneak in just to talk to her mother. And her father said, don't you want to talk to me too? And at that point, the next morning, when I'd gotten back to Marine Barracks, I sent her some roses. They were inadvertently delivered to her mother. And Linda saw that and said, those are mine. It was all a great time in our life together. You cover all this, as you say, in such wonderful detail in the book. And of course, also the wedding itself. It's a very sharpest memory from that very memorable day. Well, I was about as comfortable as you can get. Most perspective brides and grooms are saying this is a big decision. You're making a decision to not be your own ship in the night or whatever it is, you're going to be a partnership for the rest of your life. And you stop and think about that and a little nervous. It's as confident as you could get. Because I knew that well, I had had lots of very appealing young ladies that had been kind enough to be my date or invited me to various functions of life. This is the person I realized I was now going to settle down with and spend the rest of my life. So the wedding is a formalization of that long-term relationship. And I thought that the photo that I like best was really the one of her father. You can see the love in both of their eyes. I mean, it's unmistakable if you look at those photographs. I was supremely happy and confident that my life just got long-term better. I'm fascinated by your mention of photos and it seems to me that many of us remember these seminal moments of that period so much through the terrific photos that are left to us from those days. I want to ask you about a different photo that brings us on to your service in Vietnam. So shortly after you were married, you went off to Vietnam for some of the reasons that you've already touched on. Talk a little bit about how you kept in touch with your new wife and with maybe in ways that weren't entirely clear to you with the Johnson administration more broadly while you were overseas in Vietnam. And what I'm getting at, of course, is that famous image of LBJ listening to the recording that you sent back. We started off writing letters to each other. Linda did a much better job than I did. When I was out on extended operations and not back on my combat base I would have to wait until I got back to get her letters and there would normally be several that I could read and enjoy and whatever. But her father had given each of us a portable recorder so that we could communicate in voice. We didn't have cell phones or whatever. We didn't have cell phones at that point. But we could actually hear each other's voice. And that was great. But the weather over there was not conducive to any electronic products faring very well. And occasionally the heat was so intense that the battery simply wouldn't record at full speed even close to it. So we were able to re-record what I had sent and Linda's father kitted her about what's this smart young man that doesn't know when to get to speed or I don't remember the exact language. I put the best recollection I had in the book and we both got kicked out of that. Fortunately it was reconstructed for him. And then after I jumped ahead a little bit in Vietnam but after we decided to get married I did want to go through the formal procedure of asking for his eldest daughter's hand in marriage and I was able to get a short appointment with his secretary and I met him over actually in the Lincoln bedroom and I got there first and he came in for a minute and this is again all in the book. I said Mr. President I think you know I'm here and he gave that very warm reassurance I think I do. I suspect that he'd probably I don't think I've ever raised this before but because you have access to all of my records at that point I wouldn't be surprised that this wasn't somebody that shouldn't be coming into our family. I don't know that and there was someone and I decided not to name that individual but somebody on his staff that I knew believed that they were doing something in his best interest said you have more than fulfilled your commitment to the Marine Corps you don't have to go to Vietnam and I said you don't understand I've been trying to get to Vietnam each fitness report you say what would you like what is your preference for next duty station and I was always either something around Westpac or combat environment whatever and I'd get sent to even better assignments and I said well this is great and that's how I got ended up after I was I'd gone to the Mediterranean on a battalion landing team came back was assigned up to the White House this is one more time I wasn't going over to Vietnam and I was disappointed until I realized until I met Linda I guess and it was after that it's all the book a question that comes to us from our audience goes like this did people treat you differently in Vietnam knowing that you were the son-in-law of the commander in chief I don't think so I don't know of any occasion where I was aware of anyone doing anything that was not by the book I never made any particular announcement when I finally got the command of the company but I know enough about how organizations operate you always have some time you're informally together with other members and someone would get a hint of that you know that the Skipper is actually married to the daughter of the president of the United States no one ever confronted me with that directly I did occasionally later on get questions about what's it like to live in the White House and what's all these kinds of things that are fairly predictable but at the time I wasn't there was never anything on my part even when in this case General Westmoreland came over he came to brief the president to bring me a tin of oatmeal raising cookies which he had baked for me and he was smart enough not to hand them to me or have it generate all kinds of ill will for me and for him he had another person who was traveling with him to quietly give him to us so I could enjoy them on my own I shared some of those but it was a there was an instance at some point where somebody I think it was subsequent to Vietnam were doing a story on me and so they contacted one of the Marines who served in my company and they asked essentially the question that whoever submitted that question was asking and his response no if you're wearing marine green they shoot at you they don't care who you are and that pretty well summed it up and I think again if I had not had a very good experience to start my formal Marine Corps career I might have been overly sensitive to that but I knew that I was I didn't have any doubt in my own sense of ability or what I could do and I just wanted to prove it to myself as much as anything else let's talk a little bit about another arena where you obviously achieved great things the world of politics talk about the transition from your military career into politics how did you decide on a career in politics at that point in your life? Well I wasn't always planning to be a politician I did my Marine Corps experience the simple fact that you have to know that you need to be able to instill a sense of trust in anyone you're asking to do any kind of work but particularly if it's potentially life threatening work they have to be able to trust you that you have their best interest at heart and you understand them and you're not going to ask them to do anything you wouldn't be willing to do yourself you can't in most cases you can't actually physically fight the war as such we've got beyond that period well over a hundred years before but your role in this process as a company commander at first and then I was promoted to major and I had to give up my company was to make sure that you're carrying out the mission and doing everything you can to fulfill your mission and to make sure that the troops under your command are not exposed to avoidable casualties or difficulties so your job is to make sure that you're making rational decisions to do what you're expected to do and they will do most of the actual fighting again if you develop the respect of those that you're leading and so I recognize that I could have could make a difference in the political process and I was interested in that ability to make change and certainly in Virginia we had our role in the all the enslavement of the Civil War and all of the Jim Crow that followed it I mean we were the center of much of that and it was a significant challenge and I wanted to work on trying to bring us at that point into what I considered into the real 20th century and since then of course now in the 21st century but we've made tremendous progress in that area that's the most satisfying reward in my judgment about public service you can see things happen you know that you've had a constructive role in making them happen and so you can be content Would you describe the accomplishments that you were just touching on as your greatest achievements as governor? Probably I mean it was important to me to put that part of our history behind us the ongoing discrimination and unfairness that was taking place and I was able to appoint a very significant number of women and minorities to positions of real responsibility in state government not just employees to do some of the maintenance and whatever and there's certainly plenty of that there was a fairly good cross-section of the whole population in those areas but previously the policy-making positions the ones that had real leadership associated with them had gone disproportionately to white men and I was able to appoint a number of people that broke that tradition the one that was most obvious I guess I was able to appoint the first African-American to the Supreme Court of Virginia but I was able to bring into positions I brought in as my Secretary of Public Safety and again thinking this was with malice and forth thought I wanted someone who wasn't just a good old boy that was just used to the use of force I mean the Secretary of Public Safety was responsible for both and the prisons and they're not likely to be as open to understanding of what's going on to people inside so I brought in a very bright highly regarded African-American lawyer who was much more accustomed to speaking in terms of justice than simply just more force and it's now Virginia is moved from the Jim Crow Capital for a long period of time to a much more progressive state a much more conscious state of the human condition and so making progress in that it's not a single accomplishment although I was able to bump the teacher salaries in education which had always been one of my priors up to the highest in the South they had been well down the list nationally when I took over office so when I was coming in I asked the outgoing Governor a good friend of Republican I said if you don't mind don't put all of your discretionary money into something other than education let's put it in there and I'm going to follow up with that and I did and so we were able to from a very modest ranking in the national hierarchy to be the highest paid teacher salaries in the South those are the kinds of things that are satisfying and they give you a sense of performing responsibly when it's your turn in the arena my turn has expired at this point and I'm going to continue to encourage people that I think share those kinds of values and objectives but I'm not there's not a great demand for octogenarians to lead well I'm going to again being older than all the common answer the Marine Corps or the last five or six presidents whatever I'm not going to demand for anyone my age right now but I'm going to encourage and support those who make difficult decisions that will eventually look like why didn't somebody recognize that this is the right thing to do a long time ago it seems to me governor that you represent that your political career really embodies a brand of politics that's all too rare in politics these days I know you write in your book that you really care for the word moderate you obviously don't want to be pigeonholed in any particular way I don't want to be pigeonholed in thinking that just because somebody has classified me as either conservative, moderate or liberal what the case may be that I'm going to be automatically required to accept whatever is the conventional wisdom for what a conservative, moderate, liberal many of the positions that I have taken particularly for a very conservative state and one was much more enlightened much less enlightened early on was the fact that I could do some of these things and make sure that I had the right people that they would make it easy for those who succeeded in positions of responsibility to make the same kinds of appointments and be expected to make those kinds of reportments Governor let me ask you a question that I think a lot of people are struggling to answer these days how do we get back as a society to the political situation in which your career really thrived in which we weren't quite so ready to pigeonhole people and assign them to categories on the political spectrum where we respected debate and differences of opinion how do we get back there I wish I had an easy answer for that I mean I would like very much to get back to that kind of an environment I took particular delight in being able to work across the aisle so I would I tried to line up when I could with fellow Democrats on issues that I thought were on the same wavelength or on opposite ends of the wavelength or whatever the case may be I would stand up for what I thought I would promote positions which may or may not be the kinds of things that people who are getting into a nominating contest and now they talk about somebody that doesn't vote for a particular individual and the threat is with their own party Republican or Democrat they're going to be primaried which means they're going to get somebody who is more likely to be unbending in taking the absolute position on any particular issue and I just never wanted to be in that part it's been my experience that if you do what you think is the right thing which you believe in your heart of hearts if it happens to align with something that's politically popular it's easy enough to do there were times when I was in public life where I would have people that were coming along and in some cases now very respected public officials who would call me say I've got a really tough situation here frequently it evolved around religion that said my heart my religious beliefs require that I take a particular position and I can't square that with the electorate or whatever I said tell people what you believe they'll respect you for it and I've had compliments come back from folks that I said I don't think that's ever bad advice I mean if they think you're giving them the straight skinny so to speak and that goes back to trust and your willingness to listen to the other side so I'd like to solve this problem I'm distressed as you'll read in the book by this tribalism approach where my tribe requires me to be either for or against X, Y, or Z I don't think that's healthy I think to the extent you can come to common resolution questions that are important and then be able to explain those to the public and stick together on them I think that's all good but to say that you are going to vote for or be for or against something based on some strictly political considerations that you think that's what your quote base requires you to do I just absolutely reject that categorically absolutely and here's a final question that actually comes from our audience I think is a really terrific one to end on what advice would you give to someone who's aspiring to be the next Governor Robb to get into the arena and to achieve great things in the world of politics well get engaged accept the things you cannot change have the courage to change the things you can and have excuse me the wisdom to know the difference and again I think if people follow their conscience on those kinds of things they're unlikely to ever get in any serious difficulty with themselves, their friends their conscience that's the reason I don't like to be pigeonholed by somebody else's decision that he must be a blank ABC or whatever because I want to have the freedom to follow my conscience on votes that may not be perceived as being from that particular persuasion again it makes decision making a whole lot easier I have all of my life have found that you don't try to tell something that you know is wrong and then later slink back in and saying well I apologize I admit that I was in effect misleading you or telling you something that I did not know to be the truth those are the kind of folks that get in all kinds of difficult dilemmas personally with themselves I don't see how anyone can represent something to be true that they know not to be true and get a good night's sleep well Governor Rob I want to thank you again for this wonderful book in the arena I want to thank you for your time and I certainly hope that many people out there in the state of Virginia and across the country will be inspired by your words here and your words in this wonderful interview thank you so much again for taking the time to be with us we really appreciate it thank you Mark I very much appreciate the invitation to join you and I appreciate those who are friends of the LBJ Library who are active in the arena and will come to meetings particularly when we get back to in person meetings if that ever happens I mean I miss that aspect of it I like to deal with people and you're very easy to deal with over the internet I mean over the zoom because for whatever reason we're looking at each other in a way that I feed off of an audience Linda's father used to be very good at that if any politician who can't read their audience now a lot of times I would make speeches on something I knew the audience was flat against it and I would particularly in things military or conservative audiences I would try to reason with them a word that Linda's father used frequently reasoned together I think that's what being a part of life is all about and that's what makes it both challenging and rewarding and I appreciate the folks that are friends of the library who want to continue to make some of the lessons that Linda's father left behind available to more and more of our citizens and encouraging them to get in the arena well said and we can't wait to see you back in Austin hopefully sooner rather than later I will look forward to it fantastic thank you again thank you Mark I appreciate it thank you Chuck and Mark as a reminder side bookplated copies of in the arena are available at lbjstore.com programming sponsors the moody foundation and st. David's health care as another reminder we depend on your membership support to produce programming like this I encourage you to visit lbjfriends.org to learn more about becoming a member thanks for joining us see you next time