 Okay, thank you. I'm sorry for that lapse as we started just for the general public information We've called the meeting to order. We have already voted the sewer and water rates for next year beginning July 1st 2019 we are now moving on to general public comment when you come forward for general public comment Please make sure that you sign the form that's on the table Make sure you speak your name and your address making sure that you are in fact a resident of Amherst You'll have no more than three minutes to speak the issues that we will have public comment on later are 7a 7b 7c 7d and 7f We will not have public comment on other items and you are welcome to speak in public comment to any other issue Not on our eye on our agenda tonight. I see a hand of those people wishing to make public comment Okay, would you please come forward make sure the mic is on thank you Dylan My name is Dylan maxfield. I live at a 290 North Pleasant Street apartment to in Amherst, Massachusetts I'm here to comment on the way the town Council handles board appointments such as those for the zoning board of appeals as well as the planning board Specifically on whether or not it makes public information of who is not appointed to those boards I'm here to give comment in favor of making that a public record The reason I believe this was in my own personal experience I had applied to be on the licensing commission and I had applied with believe 10 applicants in total for five spots I was somebody who lives in the downtown right across the street from where Porta is and the spoke I'm affected by the noise in the bars. I'm somebody who's worked in the bars in town I have that perspective of What bars violate what laws and why they do it? And I'm somebody who from time to time goes to the bars myself and knows what the experience is a patron as an employee And is the resident in town When I'd applied for the board I had ended up being denied and I had figured a lot of people had applied There must have been someone with a similar perspective. There's no need to double up on that what I'd seen was a series of professors being appointed lawyers and Former select board member and I understand that the licensing commission doesn't fall under the purview of the council But if you look at the something as the planning board the zoning board of appeals You'll see that same trend continue who you see being appointed or lawyers professors landlords and business owners who are serving in our community on these boards and I can't help but wonder are Working-class people like myself applying for these boards and are being denied and we're only accepting lawyers professors in the college Educated are these the only people who we want serving in our town and to that question are working-class people being denied The answer I have to give is I don't know it's not public information We don't know and I strongly believe that the council when it wants to make that choice of whether or not to keep That information concealed or whether to keep it open to public I believe it's very important to keep that information open to the public because I believe if we want to have our Community government Represented by members of the community from all walks of life and all income levels It needs to be public information not only who's being appointed obviously But who is being denied is there a trend of people of working-class being turned away from these community boards So I believe it is very important that going forward we do keep that Information open to the public so we can better address that if you if that issue is even there Because at this point I simply have to say I just don't know who is being turned away And I hope that this is something that the council would consider to be an important issue as well Thank you so much. Thank you for your comment. Are there any of the public comments at this time? Okay, then proceeding with our agenda We have a proclamation for the Juneteenth Proclamation and I understand we have someone in the audience who would like to speak to this. Please come forward On the 19th of June 1865 General order number three. Excuse me. I'm gonna ask interrupt you on the car. Could you please state your name? I'm sorry milk milk our Shabbos 29 Chapel Road and the people that are with you Edward Caves 12 long metal drive Jose Shabbos 29 Chapel Road as well these have all been involved in celebrating Juneteenth for the past nine years and This year we will do the same with your passage of this proclamation It will engage the entire town with us on the steps tomorrow I mean Wednesday rather at 4 p.m Where we will both read out the general order number three that major General Granger read in the last State to be informed of the end of slavery Texas in on June 19th 1865 We will go from there after the bells are on again with your permission to Jones library where we will have a program there in the remainder of the Okay, would you like someone from the council to be there to read the proclamation? That would be splendid. I love that Thank you. We invite any and all that can come Any other comments from the rest of you at this time? Yes Pat I am absolutely in favor of this proclamation I want to say that one of the things that the town of Amherst needs to do is to begin to look at Systemic and structural racism in our community and so we do this proclamation I do it with joy, but knowing that we're not requiring any changes And so how do we work together as a community to really address white supremacy and our and the culture that controls us? Are there any other comments from the counselors at this time? Okay, then with the show of hands here is the motion I Move to adopt the Juneteenth Proclamation as presented and amended or as presented period all those in favor. Oh, I that's a motion is there a second Thank you, and all those in favor Rose your hands I and that is opposed Abstain and one absence, so it's 12 0 0 and one absent and I hope that other counselors can join me at 4 o'clock on Wednesday and join you as well Thank you so much we're now going to move into the proposed zoning bylaws and Let me just give a little history first of all This is a first reading when we do any bylaw changes You have to have two readings and in between that you have to have a hearing. We will do that hearing on July 1st. I Also want to recognize several people who have worked very hard on this One of them is mr. Ritchie attorney Ritchie just sitting right here in front of us Not only has he chaired this bylaw review committee But he by he chaired the one that preceded this prior to the council being seated along with Bernie Kubiak and then counselors Alyssa Brewer, Pat D'Angelo's and Evan Ross and With their staff of Jeff Kravitz and obviously Christine you're here as well I also want to mention that this is not these are not major bylaw changes that are Structurally going to change anything at this point But they are very important because they're we needed to do some housekeeping many of our bylaws referred To select board and things like that, but having said that I'm going to leave the rest up to our esteemed chair and please proceed Thank you for the opportunity to come back and Visit with you again on this very interesting event I read recently that The ending of every story is just the beginning of another and this is a chapter in the story book and What what you have before you tonight is a proposal to Basically deal with the zoning bylaws The committee that that I chaired both committees were charged with taking a look at that reviewing them and fashioning our thoughts and suggestions on how the repeal and Replacement should should be accomplished so Just to put into the context of what you have before you tonight in the next couple of weeks There is a document that that was generated by the committee That has been chaired with the planning board and Council and the council elect and it represents the zoning bylaw In in a format that was written in word But it was track changes so that all of the revisions and attentions we gave to the text of the zoning bylaw Are evident from reading it in that context? It's at a point down the road. I think on July 1st the council will If things go according to the the plan We'll have before it a motion to actually vote to make that change So the the the document before you represents the work of the committee In just to review some of the background for it the the charter Basically In in 2.1 Charges the council with making these changes It is important to note that all of the changes that we're proposing for you now with zoning Sometime down the road with the general bylaw Leave the bylaws that were adopted by the town of Amherst by Tom beings Continuing full force and effect until the action taken by this council That was in 10.1 of the charter that that gave that until the bylaws of the town were amended repealed Altered then they get they out at the laws of the town So on November of 2018 the zoning bylaw was in a form that continues in full force and effected this day And it will stay the law right through the date of the vote of the council to repeal in the fight The world didn't come to an end when the when the form of government changed because the charter and the state laws Recognized the necessity of a town that becomes a city form of government Interpret the bylaws of the town in a practical and reasonable way. So We're addressing the zoning bylaws first Because having reviewed them over a period of 30 meetings in the first committee and committee and many meetings of the second committee we we have Seen the evident distinction between general bylaws and zoning bylaw Zoning bylaws are a single unified integrated large complex bit of law that have a Plan of organization that require very little attention of our committee In addressing the charter the changes to that zoning bylaw Mandated by the charter they were relatively few in number because the the Primary level of attention given by the committee was to make those changes that compelled Attention to whether it was an executive Legislative administrative function changing select board to council or town manager to Council or other of the designations of boards and officials So that first level of attention To the zoning bylaw was relatively simple With the gentle with the general bylaws on the other hand It was a complicated bit of business because unlike the zoning bylaws general bylaws were a collection of Laws past the various times by various town meetings with no organizing principle of Alphan America organization and so the the attentions of the committee were for that reason Almost exclusively focused on the general bylaws and those times that we did devote ourselves to the zoning bylaws We had the benefit of the collective wisdom of the planning staff the planning board Chris and and the town attorney so the Document that is before you tonight in first reading Basically is the zoning bylaw that was in effect in November of 2019 and continues unchanged in effect today With those changes that are That have been explained to you The the major focus of attention to the general bylaw deal with such remedial attentions to the text as Not only changing the designations of public Boards and officials, but introducing a plan of attack in some of the graphic deficiencies such as gender neutrality Replacing numerals for numbers Maintaining some consistency from one general bylaw to another so that if a term is used it has that same meaning Throughout the code of general law these problems don't really affect the zoning bylaw The zoning bylaw is a document that affects the property interests of everybody in town It's an important document and it deserves to be a matter of first attention by the council for that reason The the objective of a complete repeal and replacement is so that the date of codification Is a clean break from the back so that we have a baseline? Zoning law that that's that is there after modified with respect to what the council does when it acts on July 1st As Distinct from going back and revising and amending bylaws that have continued to be in effect But from various points of time, it's like generating a code made a whole clock rather than a quilt of unrelated document in addition to the organization of the general bylaws They were not Inserted into a framework that had a coherent alphabet alphanumeric Order so the committee has spent a good deal of time creating such a framework so that the the numbering scheme is organized And references and captions and labels are all consistent The general bylaws call for the repeal of the number of laws that no longer had an effect in in the new form of They were written at a time when the value of white space and readability Was not a prominent objective of the legislation back then so a lot of white space was introduced Clarity with respect to what we mean when we say something is a mandatory rather than Voluntary so the use of shall that having that mandatory. We've always made sure we've said that the same way We've eliminated in the general bylaws redundancy where large clumps of text were repeated endlessly When some abbreviated form could possibly be used to substitute for that so shorter sentences more periods more white space clearer clearer organization and Probably the most dramatic change that we recommended with the general bylaws that it is to extract from the dense text of the bylaw all of those things having to do with The the fines and the penalties and the fees associated with it So in the front that every new general bylaw you will find a little data board with all of that relevant information so that the Anybody that reads it a member the general public will easily see what the consequences of violating the bylaw so all of that Time and attention that our committee has devoted to the general bylaws We were mercifully relieved of having to do that with the zoning because they are well organized You can't change one part, but you don't have ripple effects throughout the entire document. That is not true with so I I I don't know what more to say other than the fact that we've done our best to Keep the number of changes to an absolute minimum Whereas with the general bylaws we make numerous recommendations for change some of which we were presumptuous enough to draft for your consideration others we embedded in Commentary that we offered to the council so that as you look at some of these continuing deficiencies You have at least our list of the things that we think you should attack first Again, we don't have that problem with the zoning bylaw The changes that you have seen Basically are the changes of the names of the bodies involved Where where it might have been the select board it is now the council or the manager depending on whether the function was Legislative or executive in nature In one instance we clumped together. We aggregated All of those bylaws that have to do generally with the topic of marijuana Which these days is a rather voluminous bit of text We've clustered those together into a one section of the zoning bylaw So that the reader will go to one place to get all of the Information we did this largely in concert with the planning board in the planning style so that these things are consistent with their thinking How they will approach future changes to this baseline document that you have had before you tonight in the next few weeks Again the the the mission that the committee Felt itself responsive to Was broken into two parts the first part was to make recommendations for those changes that were mandated Absolutely necessitated by the charter The other more flexible mission was to propose changes that fully implemented the charter for our new form of development The committee was was invited to read that liberally and to come up with changes that we thought enhanced the value Of the document as a readable text that everybody can understand It should be not readable only by lawyers and professionals It should be clear enough so that any member of the general public can pick it up and have a good idea of what it says The general bylaw will have a section in the administrative preamble with An interpretive guide when we say things this is what we mean so that there will be some assist to those that read the document I think that the the zoning bylaw is much more difficult to understand and I think at some point We can bring some of these attentions that we've given to the general bylaws and apply those to the zoning bylaw going forward but Since I think time is much more important on matters dealing with land use and property rights dealing with zoning is Appropriately the first bit of legislative business that our committee thinks appropriate I Could go through some of the other changes, but as I say they're so relatively few that unless there are any questions I just wanted to let you know and I think you have a report from the planning board the planning board held a Public hearing on June 5th and voted believe it was six With one person absent to recommend these changes to the town council That's correct to post reps There are places in the document that is the document that was submitted to you back on November Which was wonderfully put together by Jeff pravitz That's after our committee and it is the document that you will be looking at on the day that you vote on this By the first there the acceptable changes button will be pressed and you will have a document that will represent the document That will be the zoning bylaws There are a few things that need to be addressed between now and then Internal cross references to the general bylaws were drafted With with with a reference to the new framework of the general bylaws, which is not yet So so I think the document that will be acted on by the council ought to keep references to the current old General bylaws the consistency at some point a technical change Will be made to the zoning bylaw once the general bylaws have been changed those cross references will be fixed There is There are two other relatively small changes one of which The jurisdiction over streets was understood to be is understood to be a matter within the jurisdictional curvy of the council Not the time manager. So we made a change That is that is different from the text And I believe Chris Brestrock indicated to me that there is another type of graphical change at the very beginning in which we have We're going to clean up the grammar in the syntax of a sentence not to change the meaning but to make the meaning clear that the appointment is It's in section 10.1. There was a question that was brought up today that Made it seem as if this language that's in this current text that you have before you makes it seem as if the associate members are also Having three-year terms and the associate members only have one-year terms. So we have to clean up that language So those are the only changes that that I'm aware of But between now in the second reading and action by the council We'll work with Jeff graphics to make sure that the documents is completely correct Okay, so we'll start with questions from the council then this is an item for public comment So are there questions from the council? Mandy jump is you just mentioned the That there was one change that dealt with the public ways and keeper of the streets Could you point me to exactly where that you know, what article that might be? I Think if you jump to the text 7.10 7.104 Deals with Streets 8.42 and 8.21 Both deal with signs And those Those references need to be changed to the current by law, but the one dealing with streets I believe is 7.104 Just for the use of the public you can find this online It's 135 pages long. So we're not going to read it out loud tonight Nor are we going to show it all to you on the screen? I'll begin to read now Mandy Joe, do you have a question? Okay, are there other questions at this time? Yes, Kathy Yeah, I had One just so I understand it at the very beginning when you talk about appointments to the design review board It talks about staggered three-year terms and when we get to 10.1 for zoning and 10.02 for planning it just says three-year terms. Are those terms also staggered? So it's a question of one has the adjective of staggered three-year terms and the other says just three-year terms And I just checked the charter. There's no language on it. So I I didn't know Whether in practice they're staggered or whether both of them need what? Yep, so it's a question Yes, please Chris in the past there has been a practice of appointing people to staggered three-year terms and so when a New person is being appointed if there's a term that hasn't been completely filled out and there are only Two years left that person would be appointed for that term. So I think in the in the beginning It's it's hard to explain because in the beginning everybody was appointed, you know Initially, but over time people resign and new people come on And so the intent is to have them appointed for staggered three-year terms Although you might want to reconsider that because now we have Seven members of the planning board rather than nine So I think staggered three-year terms made sense with nine members perhaps that doesn't make sense with Seven members, but the planning board doesn't have that doesn't have jurisdiction over that So it's maybe something that you want to talk about. Thank you. Yes, Steve The charter section 2.9 says the town council show I'll point all the members of the planning board and zoning board of appeals for staggered three-year terms Okay, so we need to make sure that the final draft that we're looking at on July 1st is Consistent in both places Okay. Yes, Alyssa So I have actually several things because I spent several hours on this as a member of the by-law review committee And I will try not to bore you with all of that But I will say that a number of questions have arisen and one includes the fact that I'm not convinced that our by-law Needs to conform with our charter on that It didn't in the past. So our Old Town Government Act and the by-law Weren't matchy-matchy on the staggered terms. So that's probably a legal question That's worth asking because we know now that we could do that, but I'm not sure that it's necessarily Necessary to do that just because we have to look first at the bio We have to look at the MGL. We have to look at the by-law. We have to look at the charter They don't all have to match for them to all apply and so if we're trying to simplify our lives It would make sense to have the match, but that means So I'm just saying that's not how it used to be it didn't use to match And so it was not a problem in the past and I don't know if it's technically a problem now Although obviously the charter does say stagger. So that's important There are a number of other issues going on here and I don't want to misspeak and I'm sure Chris will straighten me out or Bob If necessary But one of the things we didn't realize until last week is that the charter says that there's a 14-day notice period that needs to take place for any by-law change whether it's zoning or General by-laws we hadn't taken that into account when we were doing this and I'm still not convinced We know that we all have a shared agreement on Where that goes on the town bulletin board just like when we realized we had to do that for committee appointments We said, ah, let's put it in news and announcements. That'll be a place. Everybody sees it But do we assume that 14 days notice means somebody has to know to go look in our packet? Does that mean it goes in news and announcements? I'm not sure we know where that goes or if that has taken place and obviously our president will be able to speak to that in Terms of hearings. We don't have to have hearings on general by-laws That's not a requirement of the law or of our charter But we do on zoning and that was also overlooked until last week And so I appreciate all the scrambling everybody did to try and get those legal notices done I'm also concerned that I realize we had to scramble at that point But if those legal notices have been done for July 1st We as a council need to know that there are legal notices in the newspaper about something We're planning to do so that we know that as a group and so we have to figure out a new, you know A way of informing right getting it done was the most important thing But in future because there will be continued zoning by-law revisions that come to us And so we'll need to find out because I am quite confident that all 13 of you do not read the legal notices In the cassette to know that it's coming up at a future meeting and we don't have a list of what's coming up Future meetings either and so I just don't like being caught out in front of the Jones Library and somebody asking me about a legal notice And I have no idea what they're talking about So I these are all just systems We have to figure out how to put in place because we're different now than we were as town meaning We're different as a city than we were as a town And so if those sound like different things than before that's because it's true They are different than before and there's one slight misstatement in the planning board report Which says that because of what happened in the fall That because we didn't act within 90 days of the planning board hearing. That's not true It's because we didn't act within 90 days of the public hearing by the city council because we didn't have a hearing so the action that needs to take place under mass general law is Within 90 days of the town council hearing not the planning board hearing for a city However, that brings up another question about hearings Which is that in future after we give them this nice clean zoning by-law that we're going to give over to the planning board We could very well simplify our lives by having a joint hearing between the planning board and Either the town council or the CRC of the town council. So we wouldn't have to jump through quite so many hoops We missed that opportunity this time because planning board already did there's yay But we need to do one but in future we may want to hold them at the same time just to kind of simplify Everybody's life depending on what time of day makes sense for people and all that kind of thing So those are just all things what I would say is that we're still trying to work out all the systems for how this is going to work so it may look a little different to us next time we see it and I appreciate that Chris and Jeff are actually working on some language to improve that Inadvertent change in the wording that we didn't we weren't trying to change it to associates being three years We that was just the way it got edited by someone at some point and it does still say for Associates, I don't think that's a problem Even though we only had just appointed three because we could say it says up to four So rather than saying well, it's three because we picked three We could leave it at up to four But if any of you noticed that difference because we recently appointed CBA associates and we only appointed three of them It's okay to have the bylaws say up to Okay, first of all we let me just address a few things we did discover this we did put notice in We will make sure that notice a copy that notices forwarded to all counselors It was is a 14-day notice the hearing our first reading is tonight Our second reading is on the 1st of July at that point We will actually start the meeting with the hearing and that is the required hearing and then after that It's posted for 14 more days until such time as nobody else wants to comment and then it's done That's my understanding now Margaret. Would you please speak to anything else on that? The first legal notice was in today's Gazette the second legal notice will be in on the 24th So that's going to satisfy chapter 40 a section 5 Publication on the town's bulletin board It's a it's a little ambiguous But it the entire proposed bylaw both in clean copy and in markup are in the agenda packets And we're in the agenda packets for the council more than 14 days in advance of final approval and the statue Requires that notice of the public hearing be posted on a bulletin board in a conspicuous place In the town hall and that is posted outside the town clerk's office and that will meet the 14-day requirement as well Okay Yes, bandage. Yeah, so I just want to clarify something you just said Lynn Once we vote The extra 14 days is prior to taking effect because the charter allows Has a 14-day window. It's not a requirement to be posted But we vote if we vote to approve they don't actually take effect for 14 days because that is the time period during which residents could Obtain a whole bunch of signatures to try and do a veto of what we just passed So they don't take effect until the end of that time period passes, but there's no other posting requirements or anything. Thank you Yes Dorothy My question is about staggered three-year terms Does that mean that when you appoint people one of them is one year one of them is two year or one of them is three year? Or do you start them all new at three years and then assume that people will drop in and out at some point? It begins to be staggered Chris I really don't have an answer to that question because the term The appointments were always done by the town manager and so I'm not exactly sure what thought process he went through I think he had advice from the select board during that process, but I really wasn't privy to that So further comment on that particular issue are there other questions Shalini, I'm sorry. I didn't see you. I was just curious if there was any instances where there was any doubt about Who the authority should be, you know, whether it should go to town manager or town council with any instances like that It is what the committee thought was the right choice and it was it was only after discussion with as many people as we thought had Input on on that recommendation. I think it's something that the council would be well advised to take a look at to make sure that recommendations consistent with yours I Don't think there were many instances in which we had any serious doubt Chris The way it was explained to me is that the choices were generally made on the basis of whether something was a legislative Action or an executive action. So if it was an executive action, it would go to the town manager And if it was a legislative action, it would go to the town council Okay, the one occasion where we we did find that we made a mistake We we forgot that the council has the exclusive jurisdiction over the streets And we had opted for something that was basically executive in nature And assigned it to the town town manager But we caught ourselves and made the change Thank you, Dorsey I'm glad Shalini asked that question Because I was hesitating to ask something similar. I just I guess when I first saw the Section about the design review board I felt like You know the planning board and the zoning board of appeals are we're both given to the council as Appointment authority under the charter and it feels like the design review board is like a sister committee to those two committees so It didn't seem immediately logical to me To have that be a town manager appointment seemed more logical to make it the town council For what that's worth the reality is the charter is the charter and that's the Rule that governs us if at some point we want to go to him for amendments to the charter And I happen to know that one of our councilor members is keeping very detailed notes about issues We have that right. In fact, there's a requirement in the charter that there actually be a review of the charter After what is it two five years three years five years, man. Did you five years? Every ten years with the years ending in is it's they're saying six. Thank you But I think they were saying that there was some wiggle room there to choose one or the other Were you not? Were you suggesting that the design review board could in fact by virtue of the zoning by-laws? Be appointed by the council I see okay So the issue then comes back to the council as to whether or not we feel that that is a legislative issue And there you have the question of timing whether or not we should just get The new based document on the books and then make changes thereafter After you know deeper thought on all of these issues Right, we slavishly kept our attention to the minimum making just those changes that absolutely needed to be made Leaving everything else has grist for the mill going forward. Okay. Yes, Mandy Joe Um, it would be inconsistent with the charter Charter section 3.3 c says except as otherwise provided by this charter the town manager shall appoint all members of multiple member bodies So unless it was carved out in the charter the town manager has has the is the appointing authority per the charter Design review would be considered a multiple member body Okay, listen and that is just something you can't change via by-law unless the charter allows for it with as I pointed out Which it doesn't so that's why we can't do it that way I Appreciate the work everyone's put into this and I want to point out that I Still think that the number of steps that are involved in this are rather confusing They're at least three and perhaps for 14 day periods associated with this entire process Some of which are legal notice in the newspaper Some of which are posting on the town bulletin board Which we are making an assumption that I don't know is based on any discussion with the town council that putting it in The town council packet is good enough versus what we normally think of as meeting postings versus hearing postings There are many many steps to this and I know that when I offered to make that that I was told that was being worked on So I would really hope that that's provided to the town council in advance of our July 1st meeting So we all know where we are in this process And then maybe we can cut off one or two of the steps by combining the planning board and a CRC or town council hearing in The future to simplify at least one of those steps Margaret I Completely agree that there needs to be a process laid out for the future and it could be a well coordinated process between the planning board and the council I just want to reiterate where the full proposed bylaws are posted again The public could click on Government on the town's home page at Amherst ma.gov click on government click on council and look at tonight's agenda packet There is a clean copy of the proposed bylaw and a markup copy there Or you could stop in at the town clerk's office and we have copies there as well Okay, but as you know from Conversations we had over the last two weeks. I finally threw out my hands and said somebody provide me with a timeline Of the exact steps, so we will get that. Thank you. Anybody any other comments from the council? Yes, Chris, I am a little unclear. I need some guidance about exactly what you need clarity on With regard to the timeline beginning to end what steps need to be taken in what time frame and what steps are allowed to be overlapped and I'll be more than glad to Look at that and tell you if it makes sense to me Thanks, I appreciate that. I really do. Are there any questions from the council? I'm going to ask if there any audience comments at this time and hearing no more questions from the council This is our first reading and we will move on to our next agenda item. Okay Thank you so much we're moving on to the FY 20 capital improvement program and and Andy I'm going to call on you and Sonja, do you just want to come on up and? Take a seat with us Sure, please So the two documents that I'm going to refer to you specifically were documents that were included in the June 3rd packet for this Council and were repeated in the packet for tonight's meeting One is the finance committee report and the other is the report of the joint capital planning committee Which was the basis of the town manager's recommendations. He accepted the recommendations that we will be considering for the capital plan specifically on the item that is the report from the finance committee on This one I would refer you to a couple of pieces to it. One is that on pages six and seven there's a brief description of the capital plan which refers back to the JCPC report and Then later in the same document on pages 12 and 13 is the proposed Transfer Authorization transfer order 20-05 Which is what we're actually going to be voting on this evening that adopts the capital plan recommendations The the last thing that I'm going to just mention at this point is that I think I said this when we met on June 3rd also that the joint capital planning committee report Consisted of three parts a narrative then a complete description of the capital Acquisition items they're proposed for this year's budget that's coming up not the year we're in but the year we're adopting for Which is the year that begins on July 1 There's also in the back of the report What's a continuous working document of the joint capital planning committee and that is a 10-year plan that envisions all of the needs that have been identified and Places them into a 10-year plan so that we can continue to Focus on each of those items and That is not actually part of what is being adopted when you adopt the preparation transfer order 2005 it only pertains to the actual appropriations for FY 20 and Therefore the 10-year plan is There for information purposes, but it's not a part of tonight's action I Think that that pretty well summarizes that there is one Transfer order pertaining to this year's Recommendations that is not for action tonight and that is Bonding authority that we would need in the future for working towards completion of the major building projects and The town manager and finance director will make recommendation when We need to proceed with those with consideration of that particular order But it was not anticipated that it be this evening So with that I will see if there's anything that either Soldrich have to add to it. I just reported I'm really here just to answer any questions. This has been presented a couple of times. Mr. Bachman I just want to remind the council this capital plan was the subject of our June 10th public forum It was reviewed at that time and we received public comment and actually dialogue And at that point we clarified the point that mr. Councilman Steinberg just made which is there are three Pieces in the capital plan that are basically set aside Should we be able to proceed with a schematic design for DBW a schematic design for a fire station and The feasibility planning for the a new public school elementary school Are there any questions on this part of the budget the capital plan? Is there any public comment on this part of the capital on this part of the budget the capital plan? Then I'm going to read the motion and ask somebody to make that To adopt appropriation and transfer order FY 20 dash 0 5 In order appropriating funds for the proportion of the town of Amherst capital program Equipment buildings facilities as recommended by the finance committee and shown on page 12 and 13 of the documents Entitled town council finance committee recommendation on fiscal year 2020 budget do I hear a motion so moved a second Dorothy I seconded any further questions Okay, this may seem that are very fast to those of you out there But there have been people studying this budget since May 1st In two meetings a week and many many more Are there other questions? If not call the question all those in favor raise your hand and say roll call roll call. I'll excuse me counselor Balmille Yes, counselor Brewer Counselor D'Angeles. Yes counselor Dumont Yeah Counselor Griezmer. Yes counselor Hanneke. Yes counselor Pam. Yes counselor Ross. Yes Counselor Ryan. Yes, counselor Shane. Yes, counselor Schreiber. Yes Counselor Steinberg. Yes The vote is 12 0 0 with one absent Thank you The next item on our agenda is the CPAC proposals However, I want to be very clear that does not include The proposal for 132 North Hampton Road However, there are three Different pieces of the CPAC proposals and we will be taking them up as we go along I Understand that Mr. Odom is here to talk about any answer any questions about CPAC. Would you come forward please and Anthony you may also want to come forward Don't go too far Sunya And I understand that mr. Buddington is doing college tour with his daughter So thank you for being here tonight Would you want to just briefly describe the meeting of the CPAC and I do mean briefly because we have talked about this and looked at it before Okay. Oh I didn't come prepared to make a statement. You have the written report in front of you most of the Recommendations were unanimous a few were close to unanimous with And I'd have to look at the report myself. So I think I will wait and answer specific questions which I am prepared and CRC Steve you reviewed this. Do you have a recommendation from CRC Steve? we recommended the CPA proposals 4-0 with one ever absent. Okay. Thank you and finance Andy finance committee Has reviewed all of the proposals with the exception of the one that has been postponed until and we were waiting until after the public meeting for Discussion of that item so that it Public meeting I think it's down the 24th and the finance committee will be meeting on the 25th and the timing was Place so that it would be between the public meeting and the July 1 Meeting of the council The committee considered all of the remaining proposals and we're looking at questions of whether they were Sound project proposals financially responsible consistent with purposes of the Community Preservation Act or raised any other Raised no other questions that we identified that were Of a significant nature Based upon that review We recommend all of the proposals that are before you tonight, which is The entire grouping with the one that has been held aside and we do note that there are series of votes required because Well, the first motion that the first order which is order 2007 which is found on pages 15 and 16 of the finance committee report Appropriates money for all the proposals. There's a second piece that Relates to acquisition of land which requires separate votes and requires Two-thirds to pass as opposed to a simple majority Are there any questions from the council? Mandy Joe Can I have some statements instead of questions? Okay? I want to thank the CPA for its work this year I served on JCPC and obviously I'm on the council and so I have a couple of sort of requests maybe That that you look at your timeline for producing a proposal I know this was the first year we were all doing everything But I know the finance committee with everything coming at it JCPC We were really pushed to and I know JCPC is going to be looking at its timeline And we could get all the timelines working in concert that would be fantastic So that it all works well including maybe some better communication between JCPC and CPA So that's just a request I have and I know Andy wants to speak to that but um And and then I think I mentioned this when we had our joint meeting with the finance committee when you guys were in front of the finance committee about a Some sort of looking at the housing funding policy I was asking about the East Street School sort of general funding the I think it's the 200,000 that's recommended In this proposal and how that sort of general not necessarily specific versus specific projects So I just I want to again reiterate a request to figure out Does CPA want to be dealing with specific housing projects? Or do they want to sort of just push a certain amount of money to the Amherst affordable housing trust for them to be dealing with it? So it's just another request, but I do appreciate all the work you guys have been doing I think it's a great list of proposals this year Yes So speaking to the to to each of those to the first point I'll say for myself. I think for other CPA members we absolutely would have Appreciated a different timeline this year. We had a very unusual timeline due to the change in government and and we're not Able to convene until many months after the normal time So so I presume that won't be the case in future years, but We had a much foreshortened time period to do the work And the the second point I'll just repeat for those who weren't in that finance committee meeting That is an ongoing discussion within the CPA Committee exactly to your question of to what extent We should be looking at individual projects versus Funding the housing trust and letting them look at individual projects and and And so it's an ongoing discussion both within CPA and with the other committees And I think among the issues that have to be looked at in that discussion are the Brett the housing trust can can set aside money, but they're and and how their Agenda and set of potential projects overlaps or doesn't overlap with the Full to what extent it overlaps with the full range of housing needs and opportunities within Amherst I think that that's a big piece at least from my perspective of the question and I and certainly the sense was This year that the appropriation the recommendation for For funding the trust at the level we did what was appropriate Specifically because of East Street, but and more generally because even if that project didn't pan out there the work that they're trying the What they're trying to develop? Bits what we understand to be the needs of the community So it's not yes, so I just want to say so it's not to prolong a conversation which Obviously is ongoing and some people have been charged with kind of looking at that calendar I just want to mention to the general public that this is something we are looking at particularly because We did have our December Second swearing in and December 3rd or late start if you will We will not hopefully ever see that kind of delay again, and we do want to thank The CPAC for jumping in and getting their work done I know you met virtually every week during at least two or three months, so it was quite something Dorothy I'm wondering In the news is the fact that there may be a Bonus for Community Preservation Act if the taxes come in higher than originally planned into Boston If there is Disbursement of money Broadly and Amherst receives a small piece. What would the CPAC do with that? I I wouldn't actually ask the town manager to address that because In reality the state gave us a mandate and then stopped funding it So there is legislation and we've been advocating for additional funds coming into CPAC from the state to Better match what they promised when they started the Community Preservation Act That would be for future years. It wouldn't be retroactive So we would just have more money in future if they did pass that And would it actually be more money or would it be funded so that there is more state money and therefore less stacks money? It would be more it would be more money because the state would be putting in more money to match what we already collect. Thank you Okay, are there other questions or comments by the council before we moved? Yes, Andy Yeah, just Unscheduled there was a difficult issue and I have to take some responsibility because I had the select board side of me before I had the Council side of me and as a select board member, I ended up asking mr. Buttington to hold the process until the council was seated Because it seemed like an awkward point to do it in the transition we also recognized that it was a one-year problem and we thirdly recognized that unlike town meeting which would have had to have had recommendations by Early April in order to get them before town meeting and in the town meeting Mailings that that was not a requirement. So we actually had a little bit more flexibility But finance committee is going to be looking at this as indicated to make sure that we Come up with the schedule. It makes sense for all involved and I do want to thank the Community Preservation Act committee for their hard work and putting this together in the giving consideration to the proposals as it did Does every year So I think that's okay Any other comments from the council before I move to public comment? Is there any public comment at this time? All right, then we're going to begin with the three motions I'll read each and ask for someone to make that motion. The first motion is to adopt appropriation and transfer order FY 20-07 in order appropriating the FY 2020 Community Preservation Act budget as recommended by the finance committee and shown on pages 15 and 16 of the document entitled town council finance committee recommendation on fiscal year 2020 budget do I hear a motion? mean Pat So moved it's second I'll second. Thank you Any further conversation about this? Then please raise your hand all those in favor. I Oops, oops roll call a roll calls not required for CPA. However, if the council would like to take a roll call I'm happy to call it Let's go with a roll call counselor Brewer I counselor D'Angeles. Yes counselor Dumont. Yes, counselor Griezmer. Yes, counselor Hanna key. Yes, counselor Pam. Yes counselor Ross. Yes counselor Ryan. Yes, counselor Shane. Yes, counselor Shriver. Yes counselor Steinberg. Yes, counselor Balmille. Yes, the vote is 12-0-0 with one absent Okay, we're moving on to the next one and perhaps because we've just voted the full package But now we have to vote some specific however These are two-third votes and they do require roll call. Is that correct? Excuse me? They don't require roll call. They require nine votes nine votes in favor. Okay The first motion is to adopt appropriation and transfer order FY 20-08 and order authorizing the time the acquisition of Zala property for open space purposes as recommended by the finance committee and shown on page 17 of the document entitled Town Council Finance Committee recommendation on fiscal year 220 budget do a hair motion And second 30 second it. Okay and Then we'll just go with a show of hands all those in favor. I opposed abstain And what absent Okay, the next one is to adopt appropriate. I'm sorry. I just want to announce the vote that was 12-0-0 with one absent Thank you very much The next one is to adopt appropriation and transfer order FY 20-09 and order authorizing the acquisition of the Keat Haskins property as recommended by the finance committee and shown on pages 18 and 19 of the document entitled the town council finance committee recommendation on fiscal year 2020 budget Do I hear motion? Guys don't move Dorothy a second second George Any further comment All those in favor raise your hand and say I I Opposed abstain the vote is 12-0-0 with one absent. Thank you We're going to before we take a break. Aren't you pleased to hear me say that? Yes We're going to actually go to item e which is the budget amendments And Sonia, do you want to just explain our housekeeping issue here? This is an order for year-end to Appropriate money for deficits that we may have in functional areas town meeting voted our budget by functional area So we can't overspend that bottom line And we typically move Excess money and other functional areas to cover the deficits that we're going to have and this year we had Two areas that were likely to go in deficit And one of them is snow and ice which did go into deficit about a hundred and fifteen thousand dollars We're asking to transfer 115 from the general government section And normally it comes from general government. That's where we have our reserves for salaries. That's also where we have Most activity most departments and the most savings And the other transfer is the sum of 73,875 From the general government area again to public safety and this is to cover Fire department scuba compressor that broke broke down this year and had to be replaced That was about 29,000 dollars and the rest is for Salary Increases that were voted contractual They settled this year And that's pretty much it Okay, are there questions at this time? Okay, the motion then yes Motion reads to adopt appropriation and transfer order fy 19 dash 82 in order amending the fy 2019 budget as recommended by the finance committee. Do I hear a motion? So moved second Pat Any further discussion? This requires a roll call vote Councilor de angeles Yes Councilor duMont. Yes. Councilor griezmer. Yes. Councilor hannacky. Yes. Councilor pan. Yes. Councilor ross. Yes Councilor ryan. Yes councilor shane. Yes councilor schreiber Yes, councilor steinberg. Yes councilor ball mill. Yes councilor brewer Yes, the vote is 1200 with one absent Thank you. I think we're going to take a five minute break. I'd like people to be back here No later than 852 752 we're moving right along 752 Thank you I'd like to reconvene Let me note we're on time Okay, the next item on our agenda is Is the limitations on camping contributions bylaw This is the second reading I'm going to call first on mandi joe and I want to point out that we have slides and we're going to go through a process of Placing the motion And then seconding and then I believe there are actually some amendments. So mandi joe So yeah, I'm going to start with the motion I moved to adopt the limitations on campaign contributions bylaw In accordance with amherst homerable charter section 2.10 a As presented by the gol committee and amended as follows Amend section c to be amended to strike the words local charity in the second to last sentence and replace with the words Quote public charity subject to mgl chapter 12 section 8 and quote and if we can so this first slide here Actually before I say that Can I guess second can we go to the second? So the first slide is the first half of this bylaw No changes under the motion. I just made if we go to the second slide That's okay This one shows what I just read as the amendment and I'm going to explain why I'm Including that amendment in the in the motion. I just made local charity is kind of vague Um, so Instead I'm proposing an amendment to public charity subject to mgl chapter 12 section 8 Which is the same in a sense or a very similar way that It is described if a candidate were to dissolve their candidates committee and still have money left one of the Places they could put that money is a public charity subject to mgl chapter 12 section 8 So I've attempted to sort of clarify local charity to conform with The the sort of laws around dissolution of candidates committees to make it similar And the other piece that you amended with that motion Well the of the not exceeding that was as per what gl reported out so that one wasn't included in that Okay, so that motion has been made and seconded Evan Yes, I'd like to move to amend sections a point one a point two And b of the bylaw to strike the decimal point two five in each of those sections We go to the next slide, please and replace it with the decimal point five So in those three sections replacing the decimal point two five with point five And I'm happy to speak to that if permissible is there a second second Please speak to the motion So Councilor hannicky and I obviously brought forth What we thought was the Best version of this bylaw that we promulgated, but one of the things that I In firmly committed to as a counselor on this council is being open to feedback from my fellow counselors and recognizing that I bring forth a measure and then I listen to all of you so that the final measure should it pass is representative of the council We've obviously heard a lot of a lot of input on this bylaw But one of the common pieces of feedback that we heard Was a general sense that point two five limiting campaign contributions from an individual to $250 Was simply too low. We also heard that From one of our public commenters. And so although My personal belief is that 250 Was was acceptable. I want to be responsive to the feedback I heard from my colleagues on the council who felt that it was too low Where the bylaw comes from is the fact that as far as I'm concerned The ability to receive a $1,000 donation from a single individual Is out of scale with the realities of elections in Amherst. I think that A thousand dollar ceiling is too high So their question if you agree with that statement is a thousand dollars too high The question is well, what is the right number? We obviously put forth 250 and and we heard from many of our colleagues that that was too low We believe that 500 Seemed to be the common refrain this mirror is what you see in north hampton It also we heard a common critique that perhaps 250 might impede a candidate Who perhaps is not your typical candidate but has access to us a person who has some some of money And there were three particular candidates for school committee All of whom are considered to be demographically People who we would want to encourage to run for office All of whom began their campaigns with a $500 donation and there was a worry that reducing to 250 Would would harm that So this now ups that to 500 so It it reduces from a thousand that ceiling which I believe and I believe and many people believe is too high But it would not have prevented those three candidates from getting their start And so to me this is a compromise In response to what we heard and the hope that We can all that we can agree that a thousand dollars from a single individual is a very large donation for this community And so having that into 500 would be more appropriate So the motion has been made and seconded and now there is an amendment on the floor that has been made and seconded Would other councils like to speak to the amendment? Kathy okay when when we first considered this two weeks ago My feeling was the issue was not so much The 250 where I was fine with setting it at 250 in the pack, but that I didn't think this was enough To address a barrier to entry in a barrier to campaigning I thought there were a lot of other pieces that would go into it and There's I have a feeling that if we pass something like this, we think we've done something Major when it's a small step and I'd rather see A work group formed a study group whatever we call it that's reporting back in six months with a series of steps And this might be a piece of it, but it would be a package and it's Website support voting list support Phone calls, you know, it's things that would just Make the mechanics of running Cheaper so you wouldn't need as much money in the first place. And I just want people to know I limited my own Contributions to a hundred and was advised that that was crazy But it it worked, you know, and and I got a lot of Small pieces and the other thing that I noticed is that if you think You're setting a limit on something if A person is a couple They can each give you half and get right back to the bigger number, you know, if they were willing in the first place So there ways around these numbers If if we're worried about undue influence of money So that's my feeling that this in itself the original 250 I didn't think was a bad idea I just didn't think it was enough and it makes it feel like we've gone to a great deal of effort to put a Bylaw on the book that doesn't begin to address the larger problem Shallowness So I took the recommendation that one of the residents had last time Jennifer sure if I might cite her that we should go and talk to some of the residents from the different communities And I did reach out to several people I heard back from four of them and they gave their they were willing to share the name So it was including Dr. Sanji Johnson Anderson Giza hiya D. Shabazz who is there and marita banda and all four of them Felt very emphatically that there should be a finance Limit From their perspective and this is a very diverse community of people and these are residents who are very active and would maybe potentially be people who would want to run in the future And they felt in fact, I'm happy to read one of the Do I have the time to read something that one of them said which I think You may This is from dr. Sanji and she said I believe it helps to even the playing field just a bit Let politicians work to increase participation and engagement of the community by not relying on huge donations from the moneyed few But by appealing to as much of the electorate as possible and build the coffers of the campaigns with limit imposed donations So in to listening to these people then I went online and did some research And I looked at some of the policies out there on finance campaign finance and I found several Agencies and I'm just citing one of them called demos Which is a policy making organization and they all sort of Directed towards Making people think or the local policies think about questions like are candidates raising money from large pools of small donors From their communities as opposed to raising most of their campaign funds through large contributions from a handful of wealthy donors Or people with special interests So which brings me to the third point then which I think andy had hinted on last time or mentioned last time that When we do get funding from let's say a few donors which are large. Let's say it's developers or let's say it's a group of people who are very They hold art is very important or climate change is very important So any special issues group that is funding does that put some sort of a pressure on on the candidates to Promote that agenda over looking at holistically what the town needs So that's the third point and then the fourth is I agree with what Kathy said that just doing this obviously all of us are agreeing is not enough However, this in combination with services that the town could provide like websites for every candidate We already have free parking. That's supporting us Or maybe if you could take it further and provide child care So having these funds so doing these multiple things would definitely send a message to the people of diverse committee communities That hey you too can do this Okay, steve Yeah, so I remain against this even as amended because I don't think it's The place of this particular body if this were a citizen petition, I'd feel differently about this But we're a group of 13 people that won our elections under the state guidelines So we all had the ability to raise a thousand dollars Some of us may or may not have chosen to do that And I don't think it's up to us to tell future groups what they shall or shan't do. There's a state law I don't think amherst is exceptional. I mean, in other words, this state law applies to all 351 Yes communities in massachusetts So I don't see anything exceptional about amherst different from than the other community that a thousand dollars Is Just tasteful or tasteful and we all know that Anyone can as has been said anyone can run a campaign that they'll only accept five dollars And anyone knows that if you accept a whole bunch of donations that are a thousand dollars, you will be subject that will become a political Albatross that you you might get more yard signs But you'll also that will also become an issue with whom are whoever else is running The other thing that I feel very uncomfortable is that we're all incumbents, right? So I was doing the calculation. I have a thousand dollars worth of yard signs in my basement So if I decide to run again, I have a thousand dollar head start I have a thousand dollars worth of graphic design on my computer So already I have a two thousand dollar head start. So I'm definitely not in a position where I can say all future candidates for You know you you even if you have some of that's willing to help even the playing field You know give it a thousand dollar donation just for yard signs that they can't do that Okay Other comments Darcy I had agreed that um, you know the the idea and the intention behind this is very admirable But that it's just Um The problem is much bigger than than just Cash We talked about this the last time that it goes to in kind donations and I Feel like we need to if we are going to do something I think it wouldn't be a bad idea to to Work on this issue and I would Agree with Kathy's idea that we if we did it We should really do a much deeper dive to look at all of the aspects of leveling the playing field because Um, you know, I was thinking about it today all the different valuable Things that we need in order to run a campaign The vast majority of them are not cash They are mailing lists and Help with the website design and so on And you know, I agree with Steve that there's a you know incumbents will have a big advantage I I'd like to ask people to stick to the amendment at this time We'll go back for the full thing later. The amendment right now is to move this from $250 to $500. Okay. Well, I I am Not in favor of the amendment Mostly because I'm not in favor of the underlying motion. Okay Pat What I was going to speak to wasn't the amendments Completely, let me see if I can what part of it I can pull out Um, I feel like the intent is to level the playing field, but it doesn't do that Um, depending on your personal finances Those aren't Limited um, and that already Unlevels the playing field Um, and I feel like well the rest are questions I have and a question Something about the fine. So I should probably wait Dorothy um, I agree with Steve that there's no reason to change the state law And um, I also agree that money isn't the issue in winning When I first started running for office Many many years ago. I was part of a group people were experienced and I learned how you campaign So when I started to run this time, I had nothing All right, but I knew how to campaign that's not something that you buy with money So what I think we need to do is to workshops and to say to do what the women did back in the 1970s Workshops for teaching women. How do you run for office? And they still run those in many places It was assumed that that if you want a group of people to run you go out you do outreach and you show them how you do it Yes, uh, I'm sorry, Andy Yes, uh part of this is a question. I don't know if Councillor hannacky has an answer but If Something is enacted tonight Both on the amendment and the final Will it affect the elections that are coming in the next round? because I think we ought to know what we're affecting Yeah, yes, bandy jump if there is a Positive vote tonight that receives at least I believe it's seven because it's just a general by-law So it just needs a majority of the full council um on the main motion Then it would take effect 14 days from tonight barring any actual resident Gathering of signatures of a significant number of signatures to try and veto that action If that doesn't happen it would take effect in 14 days and would be on the books for the upcoming local municipal election Okay, are there further? Yes pat. I have two questions and you can make me stop. Are they into this issue of 100 Yeah No, one is what are there in the massachusetts general laws Election laws any limits on PAC contributions? I'd like to know that and I'd also like to know What was actually spent in amherst by any candidate whether they won or lost and I don't know whether that's yeah It's public information You can go to people's finance reports and it's public information That information is actually posted somewhere on the town clerk's web page area What we understand and I also support a study group Okay, are there other questions comments at this time? Yes, please was your question before I answer it Contributions to PACs or contributions from PACs to Okay, so there are limits on both um The state limit which a two and a and b actually address on this one um A an individual right now in the state can contribute $500 per calendar year to a political action committee A lobbyist can contribute 200 There is no limit for a statewide candidates committee to contribute to a PAC There is no limit for a county legislative municipal or other candidate or candidates committee to contribute to a PAC A PAC can contribute $500 to another PAC A people's committee can contribute $500 to a PAC a state party committee can contribute $500 to a PAC And a local party committee can contribute $500 to a PAC a ballot question committee is not allowed to contribute to a PAC a b Under the main motion would change the $500 limit for an individual contribution to a PAC to 125 Under the amendment most the motion to amend that we're currently discussing it would turn it to 250 um A PAC can currently under state law contribute $500 a year to a candidate or candidates committee And if you want me to go through where else it can contribute money I can the a a 2 currently would Under the main motion the original motion that I made would limit that To 125 per calendar year under the amendment we're discussing if it was raised to 0.5 It would limit it to 250 per year Is there other comments at this time andy? Yeah, now that I had the question and the answer to the first one I think that I want to I'm actually going Last time I had some reservations about whether this would really have an effect on bringing more candidates in And how it would have that effect With the amendment which I am going to support because I think that it sort of moves us is to an in-between position uh I want to vote for that the amendment tonight and I will vote for the entire Proposal tonight, which I'm in I can mention later for my reasons why when we get there. I think uh President has requested we hold that piece Okay, Darcy I just have one more comment that I I feel like if One of the things that we if we did decide to study this further or dig deeper look at more of the aspects of leveling the playing field We could look at things like what types of in-kind help were actually Claimed and What's the difference between For example having to claim $125 for a mailing Because it's being put out by a political action committee and you only have to claim One tenth of the amount that it cost versus If you're not being supported by the political action committee You have to claim $1,000 for the mailing So but you both you both people get the same benefit Even though one it only has to claim 125 the other has to claim a thousand So That's the type of thing. I think that we should look at more carefully about You know what is going on in our local elections and and how to make how to level the playing field Are there any other comments on the issue of 500? Yes, elissa Yes, i'm confused by all the materials we've been provided The slide when we page down as we can on our packet here Shows information that's been x'd out. We have two versions of very similar material. This is not the slide We're on at this time. Yeah, both of which include both two reports. We have packet that include The mass general law chart that answers those questions. We've been provided that before it's been provided again tonight It's been provided in two different versions and I Still seeing them marked up as though the answer was 250 instead of 500 So i'm just really confused one of the reasons different sections that we're looking at because we've got two reports That still say 250 and then okay this part Can I just say that one of the reasons that I asked that we do these slides is because to try to Level the confusion So the very first two slides were the original Motion which was made and seconded This slide which only affects this page Is the motion to change from 250 to 500? That is the motion that we are speaking to at this time Is there any Further comment before I go to the audience for this Yes, Kevin. So I think the intention of course was to keep the conversation limited to the amendment that didn't happen But I think the the question for the amendment, right is If this final version were two paths, right, would you prefer the limit at 0.25 Or 0.5 right and so I heard a lot of i'm going to vote against the amendment because I Don't agree with the entire thing And I don't I think the question is if that if even if you disagree with the whole thing if this does pass Which of those two numbers would you prefer and that that was sort of what i'm getting at with the amendment is We've heard some concerns is 250 too low Is a thousand two, right? I think that's sort of the question and and that was the spirit of in which the amendment was offered It even if you disagree with this whole thing on its surface If it were to pass would you feel more comfortable with it at 500? Thank you dorothy The issue is not 250 or 500 The issue is that there's no limitation on individual money So candidates who have money and feel like spending it can spend whatever they want Um, and the other issue is a political action committee Um If you are a novice and you swear on to that political action committee you can get you don't really need money Because they can provide the experience and the background the information the mailing list All of those things But if you want to be an independent candidate Then these limits just are irrelevant to the task at hand So I just don't see that this has much to do with widening and opening the playing field Other additional comments George When I look at these numbers 500 250 I personally would not accept more than 100 under any circumstance, but that's a personal decision And um, I would be happy to explain that to a voter who asked the question Um, so I guess the numbers here really don't mean much to me Um 250 versus 500 because both of them are too large But that's just me speaking as an individual candidate making my personal choice Um, but I am uncomfortable with making that choice for others I also think this leaves out the role of the voter The voter I assume pays attention and these as was raised by by steve and others These are political questions and legitimately can be asked by the voter I see you got X amount of money from so-and-so. Could you explain that? But we seem to want to be able to sort of solve this ourselves by setting limits So I just I'm very uncomfortable with the whole idea of limits beyond the status that limits fine But beyond that, I think it's really a role for the informed electorate To to ask questions if they're uncomfortable with what people are the money they're getting if you want me to set a limit I'd say a hundred dollars But I don't think that number is going to fly And even then I would still be uncomfortable because that's just my personal position And I would explain that if someone asked and if someone accepted 500 they could explain it But we apparently want to decide that ahead of time that this is going to be the limit Shalini I think it's more than what we Individually decide. I think what we decide signals something to the people And when we say you there you can get up to thousand dollars it automatically Intimidates many people. That's what I'm hearing when I go and talk to people So I spoke to at least five different people From different communities and they were immediately like there's no way I can and that's there's a shock value It it communicates our values as a town that What you know, what do we stand for and so the number we all decide Beyond individual freedom to choose what our values are it is collectively We are creating values in what we stand for as a town. It's a signaling Method, I don't know how I mean that's something to really think about the number Signal something. I am not saying don't talk about the packs and and don't look at the other services that we're going to provide This is not in lieu of that. This is in addition to that What is a signal and I just want to clarify I was endorsed by a pack and I'm an independent candidate Are there other comments steve? Yeah, so we're trying to guess how people spend a thousand dollars and where that thousand dollars comes from If you've been an emmerced for a while, you know, there's been all kinds of common wisdoms like it used to be It used to be seen as Not right to campaign for town meeting so it just and so some of these Common wisdoms or some of these sort of limitations really what they do is they favor the known or they favor the It does exactly the opposite of what I think the intent of this is So I think there was exactly one one thousand dollar donation in the town council election And that happens to be somebody that was running in council district four and he did it because he or He or she did it because That was the way that he felt was the most it was from a family member And it was the most effective way for him to do a direct mailing Didn't have the time to know the ability to go door to door. So that was a strategy on his part I have no judgment as to whether or not that was an effective strategy But that was his decision a thousand dollars Is not a ton of money and it sounds like a ton of money. We wanted emmerced we It's almost like we've taken a vow of poverty in real, you know in the world. It really is not You know a ton of money. There are lots of people who are willing to Um You know to Why are we judging that? Are there additional comments at this time? Is there public I'm sorry pat Can I ask please come yes, is the public going to be limited to talking about this amendment? Should should we vote on the amendment before we take public? I believe we need to have public comment Okay before we vote on anything. Thank you My name is john boniface. I live here in amherst I'm the co-founder and president of free speech for people We're an organization that's been dedicated for nearly a decade to taking on big money in politics and corruption our government I'm a constitutional attorney. I've specialized in campaign finance and voting rights law for more than 25 years Uh, I'm here To urge This council not to enact limits that are far beyond What ordinary people can afford and in fact they can't afford a thousand dollars They can't afford five hundred dollars far more closer to council ryan's suggestion of a hundred dollars Just to give you some context for this The united states supreme court has of course had A ruling dating back to 1976 Which equated money with speech and allowed for unlimited campaign spending that included unlimited spending by canons themselves who happen to have those means But at the same time the court recognized the important governmental interest in preventing corruption and the appearance of corruption, which is why Contribution limits were upheld And to answer the counselors drivers concerns about this governmental body Setting limits legislative bodies all over this country at a state and local level Set limits on campaign finance. There are campaign finance regulatory regimes all over the country. So in fact I want to appreciate the spirit at which this proposal has come for Forward and in fact, I do think given that we've never had a town council That there should be some kind of campaign finance regulatory Structure put in place and that that be different than the statewide limits a thousand dollars applied to a statewide Election is very different than applied to a town election also ought to be noted That that limit used to be five hundred dollars until very recently for statewide elections We were involved in a case that just recently The supreme court decided not to hear and in favor of Montana's campaign contribution limits. We were there helping to defend those limits And we filed a brief before the nine circuit court of appeals Which the proponents were trying to challenge them. It sought to get the supreme court to reverse they they Failed in that but in that brief we cited a study Focusing that while 13.4 percent of american households earn a hundred thousand dollars or more 86 percent of federal contributions over two hundred dollars come from that subset of our Population people of color young people and women are significantly under represented Among the donor class 90 percent of two hundred that two hundred dollar plus federal contributions Came from predominantly white neighborhoods. This is a demo study actually And when we look at donors who gave over two hundred dollars in the 2000 presidential election 95.8 percent were white 70 percent were male and 70 percent were age 50 or older So the question here is what are the values? That we want in our town with respect to our elections One of those values ought to be to prevent corruption and the appearance of corruption Another value ought to be to lift up the basic promise of political equality for all and leveling the political playing field To answer councillor ross question. I know it wasn't directed at members of the public, but if this proposal was solely the original one For 250 dollar limits. I'd be coming up here to say I I support that I would also be coming up to say I support councillor shone's idea of adding to that original proposal A provision that would implement a study group to go beyond this because contribution limits alone Do not address this problem of leveling the playing field Demos, which is a group that we work closely with at free speech for people Proposes public funding of elections as the way to bring people into the process And seattle most recently passed a system of democracy vouchers That enables those who don't have access to well connected or wealthy interests or even people who frankly Can give 250 dollars who we might somehow think are not wealthy, but as I cited in these statistics are Based on the donor class that we ought to have a different system for getting people into the political process To address the I need to ask you to wrap up. Sure. I'll just say to address the concern about You know those who are independently wealthy that's going to have to require Reversing buckley v. Vallejo, but at a minimum This council can address these questions in a more holistic way and certainly not set limits at $500 Which is in our view absurd and I will add that I I'm also here to speak on behalf of meg gauge who submitted to you a letter. She's not in town But she submitted to a letter along with a warrant article That she was preparing to gather signatures for gathered over 200 We worked closely with her at free speech for people that warrant article included a $250 limit, but it had other reforms as well Thank you. Thank you. Other other comments. Yes Please come forward Catherine oppie a red gate lane But I am here on behalf tonight Speaking on behalf of amherst forward, which is a local volunteer network working to engage residents on critical town issues Including smart growth development high quality services and infrastructure and responsive government and I want to thank counselors ross and hannicky for bringing this proposal forward and following Mr. Boniface, which I completely support what he had to say and as does amherst forward We strongly support more rigorous and restrictive campaign finance limits Like those in the current proposals in front of you In the run-up to the election that ceded you all here as our first town counselors the role of money In the campaigns was a steady feature of townwide debates regarding the election and of the new charter itself Now that you're seated. We believe town interests in this remains high enough to warrant Action and we believe this proposal contains sensible Refinements to existing state laws regarding campaign finance. They're right size for amherst and as I listened to mr Boniface, we would amherst forward would absolutely support even lower Limits than are Before you tonight We do understand that this is a very complicated issue and that it is not merely about money But this is a very important first step and as counselor ball min has pointed out for community members Who are trying to begin to get access to? Running their own campaigns. I think the message from the town council is saying Anybody can do this if the limit is a hundred dollars or two hundred dollars And it's a very very important first step We understand your concern for the nuances and potential unintended consequences of this first step Some of you are concerned that new candidates could suffer without access to one or two large donations That perhaps having a friend or family member donate a thousand got dollars could jump start a political newcomers campaign Saving them from the difficulty of finding four people to give them 250 dollars or two people to give them 500 dollars or 20 people to give them 50 dollars Based on what we witnessed among the campaigns that resulted in all of you being seated on this council We think this concern is overblown If anything it may make it more It may make more sense to place a cap on donations so that limits don't favor incumbents Who have ready access to large donors? Limiting all donations including to PACs To less than a thousand dollars and whatever number you might consider tonight Amherst forward for example voluntarily limits donations to 52 dollars per individual Annually and take nothing from businesses or anyone outside of Amherst This seems to be a reasonable step leveling the playing field for first-time candidates Thank you very much Are there other comments? Okay that we have an amendment on the floor And it is to Change the point to five 2.5 therefore changing the limit from 250 to 500 dollars Are there further comments? Then i'm going to call the question All those in favor of the amendment Which is To change The limit from 250 to 500 dollars Please raise your hand by saying and say I Okay, that's four opposed Epstein, okay the motion fails. There's a second motion. I believe Not right now. No, okay Can I just ask is the very first version we saw 250 that's off the table because we were only voting on the higher limit So the 250 is still on the table. So I think so we go back to the first two slides. Please slide Right. That's the current motion on the table now. This is the current motion on the table Is there any other Comment on this yes, evan Yeah, so I've been holding my comment on the broader thing till after that Amendment was voted. I will say I'm learning the legislative process. It's very difficult as I hear from some people that 250 was too low and then others that 500 was too high. Um, I don't know what anyways Um, here here's here's what I want to say because there's been a lot of talk about leveling the playing field and who demographically were working To to help and I want to put on my hat as the only renter on the community The youngest person on the council and also someone who is brand new to government When I considered running the one thing that almost kept me out of this race is can I raise enough money? That that obstacle of fundraising was incredibly intimidating And the reason for that is that my social sphere From which I would I would extract donations from Is um people who are graduate students or postdocs people who don't make a lot of money My campaign started off Largely with 10 20 and 30 dollar donations, not because of some self-imposed limit But because that was my network. And so there's this common. There's this thought of well, what if someone Who wouldn't otherwise run has like a wealthy friend that could help them out? That's great for them But what if they don't right and so I started cobbling together A campaign based on very small donations because that's what I had access to and when we had the first eighth day proceeding Or whatever it was campaign finance Form and I looked at the people in my district and I saw a $1,000 donation From a single individual to someone who was running In my district my immediate thought was I can't compete with that because it would take So many more people for me to reach out to to match that And so when we talk about you know, does this actually level with the playing field? It's not just about how much money you have in the bank account It's what are the self-imposed barriers that you face and I remember looking at that thousand dollar donation thinking Uh-oh If I have to compete with someone who has access to even if they're family And I in New York City giving them a thousand dollars Maybe I'm not going to be able to do this and that's something that's really tough if you don't have political experience, right? Now it worked out in my favor in the end But that doesn't mean that someone going into that Wouldn't feel the same way and I would absolutely disagree with council Schreiber saying a thousand dollars is not a lot of money That's more than half of what I raised total Uh, I got received from a single person by someone running in my district So You know, I I think that there are real barriers that are presented to this What I keep hearing that's really frustrating to me is this idea of this won't solve the problem And so we shouldn't do it because we need a comprehensive solution I'm someone who tends to favor incrementalism because I believe that you can make real progress with incremental steps And that oftentimes if you try to do something really big and comprehensive You don't get anything at all. We've seen that with you know immigration reform So, you know the question becomes Is this a step in the right direction? Now I'm hearing you know councillor Pam and councillor Dumont saying well, this doesn't cover All these other things and the reason is it can't right does this address contributions from a wealthy individual to themselves? No, because as was noted it literally cannot Does it address in-kind contributions that are not considered by ocpf to be in-kind contributions? No, because it cannot So the question becomes because it doesn't do everything do we do nothing And in my worry is that if we make Perfect the enemy of good then we never do any good And so if we agree that perhaps paired with other things This could be effective then pass this and let's start working on other things, right? I agree This is not a silver bullet. This won't solve the problem It's one piece But if we wait until we have all of the pieces to make this happen We might never get there and so my hope is That if you think that this is something that yeah if it's paired with a couple other things could work That you will pass this and then work with me to do those other things But this idea of this won't solve the problem So let's not do it and let's throw it to a study committee and maybe something good will come out of that Uh to me is misguided I'm going to take off my hat as president and speak as a councillor I voted against the 500. I also set a limit of a hundred dollars on my own campaign Yes, I come out of a political family and we've done campaigns in this town before But I limited it to district two, which we had never done before either So I personally don't want to see us raise it to 500 I personally like to see it contained to 250 And I do feel that it is the responsibility of this council to get the ball rolling And so I am in favor of this Other comments Yes Dorothy when I started to run. I wasn't thinking about money. I was thinking I don't know very many people. Why would anyone want to vote for me? The majority of my campaign was spent trying to meet people and trying to go door to door Uh, my first flyers were done with my own camera and running them off of my computer The issue is not really whether you accept Up to 250 dollars The point is how do you reach people? And I found since I came went into the campaign and I wasn't thinking about money But really how do I get voters? I found that my choice not to be supported by a pack put me very behind the eight ball because They provided access to lots of people what value you put on it or how you value it I really don't know But I'm saying that to be if you want to be an independent person Which means you don't want to sign to a list of positions If you want to be able to say I will make the decision when the time comes Then you need the workshop some of the things that could come out of a working group that we're talking about We need to do real a movement out into the community to talk about how do you run? How do you reach people and it's not about raising money? I really don't think I don't think that this solves or deals with the problem So although I don't think 250 is too high I didn't think 500 was too high. I didn't think that that was the issue And certainly nobody ever thought of offering me a thousand dollars and never received that in my whole political life so I think we need to think about how do you get new people in by Not focusing on this but really moving into the community with some political workshops, which I think we need to do Comments. Yes Kathy. Okay. I like the way evan Ended his Passionate plea that this is a first step and it could could and should be combined with other things because it's what I said Originally is I think the limit makes total sense for all sorts of reasons It's just it isn't enough and it's not what made for successful campaigns this time Some people spent $500 on a website Huge amounts to help people massage voting lists. There's a way to lower That expense and then not need as much money Some basic training and I even thought when we went and did those videos I've been on the public stage multiple times. So I did not freeze when they put me in a closet Looking at a A gray wall With a clock taken down But a couple people just froze and I think a lot of people two takes, you know, even when you do You know a movie thing. It's not always the first take that works. I mean, there's just a few These are not costly, but we would have to do a concerted effort So I would like if we vote for a limit I would like to be it also a vote for a limit as an initial step And then really think of what else we could do and put our heads together Steve yeah, so we all have anecdotes about how we got here So and that's continues to be one of the problems that I'm having is that we only have 13 anecdotes So we don't have the stories of everyone else out there I have to say there's been complete 100 radio silence on this issue There have been emails that have gone out to a number of voters asking them to contact their counselors about this issue I got zero until today may gauge which went to everyone. So there seems to be a giant yawn, you know, out in the You know outside of these walls. I in a way, I feel like we're Talking about something very esoteric. So I myself Got the highest donation I got was 200 I was I had this image that I go door to door with eight and a half by 11 flyers And then we escalated up to yard signs and we escalated up to You know a whole bunch of stuff So if we were to do something it wouldn't be the campaign limits Actually, I would do both campaign limits and I know we can't limit yard signs That's been tested elsewhere in holy oak or or somewhere. But I would say I think there's a whole bunch of rules we could set up that can Those kinds of things are what are intimidating people like so for me this idea that I had to go get yard signs And put those find out, you know, ask people to put them in their front yard and you know, etc Those would be the things that I would love to limit Shall we So the reason there's a big yawn is very often the people that we want to engage are busy and Are not able to and I was able to get hold of four such people Whose voices we heard and all four of them unanimously wanted and and even though that's just four people What we also heard mr. Boniface talk about is policy and what I looked up different policies that are Recommending it's not just our individual experiences. We're just 13 people And we still are pretty privileged most of us here What what we need to look at is people who are actively studying this and there are people in policy Who are looking at how this affects and when they are all recommending they should be You know, there should be a limit then I think we need to be paying attention and not just looking at well I went out and knocked on so many doors and I sure did, you know I did have the support of a pack, but I went and knocked on Hundreds and maybe thousand doors. I went door to door doing that and that's what Helped eventually, but it's not about what I did individually. What we're looking at is how this impacts people Outside of the 13 people in this room and so there are a couple of ways we can go about it I think this is a good first step And then we create a committee or working group that actively engages the community members that looks at policies and talks to people Who are studying these policy and we create a holistic of strategy or policy for how to continue to move in that direction Andy Let's have a couple of things one is this is hard, but I'm going to say it anyway I have been very pleased with this council over the period since we got past our Very beginning that we have really worked together as a group and had a lot of confidence in each other and have avoided Having to go back into the divisiveness of the campaign I've been very uncomfortable with this discussion because it has reopened a lot of the divisiveness That occurred and I was so pleased with us that we got beyond it And I'm so saddened that we seem to have sunk back towards it by this discussion The reason I am going to vote yes on the motion is Back to a question that I asked way back at the beginning Whether if we pass this tonight it will have an impact on the upcoming election and the answer was barring the collection of signatures to Go through the count the charter provision on veto It will affect the elections that are coming up for library trustees and school committee And it's a first step. It's our chance to try something different and Feel a little awkward being the ones who are trying something different on another group of candidates But on the other hand I think that we've all spoken to the principles of why it's the right thing to do Yes, pat Um, I I just want to confess that my largest donation was 300 dollars It came from Kim Wainwright who was a man in my dance company 40 years ago It was a complete surprise since I haven't seen him except on facebook But I did want to say to evan You may be the only renter, but uh, but there are homeowners on this council who don't have money And who are in a similar position or maybe even a worse position for you Since I spent the weekend dealing with people's assumptions. I really want to clear that one away Very strongly and and you can't assume that you're different Because you have less money because you're not And I can support this as a first step. I think that the fine is kind of ridiculous It's too small I would love to see the fine for breaking whatever we decide Be higher And also include publication of people's names who've broken it I think that's very important because what's you know, $250 to me might not mean much to you. It might mean a lot um I think that we have to look at that before I can vote yes on this um, and I also think that we If this is the first step then there really does need to be a deep study Because this is not going to level the playing field Other other comments at this time Alyssa So I'll try and read fast So despite all discussion of how to do this and how there are all these different agencies and people looking at this all over the world All over the united states. We are the only municipality out of 351 that is doing this other than north hampton I don't believe this is our chance to be in the front of this. I don't think this is a good use of our time I don't think the devoting town council resources to this issue alone as well as all the other really important issues And I've talked about how I wish the league We had something like a league that wasn't the league because the league can't do candidates I totally support doing that outside of the town council's time We have so much in front of us that I can't say this is more important than 50 other things that are on our list I will also say that what we have done through this entire process both here and at the previous thing Was making judgments about how people should campaign If you as a voter think a thousand dollars is too much and you question why the candidate's taking that Are you also looking at whether or not they're purchasing their signs from out of state and delivering them here in a truck from 600 miles away And are you looking at whether or not they got them done at a union shop locally? Also, perhaps are you looking and considering that there's complete transparency and all of that reporting on the town website And has been for many years Are you also requiring that every candidate has to knock doors that that absolutely has to happen What about when I was using a cane two years ago for eight weeks happened to be during campaign season? Oh, so i'm a bad candidate because I didn't knock doors. What if I have a permanent mobility issue? Oh, well, you should have knocked doors I don't think it's our business to tell people how to campaign I think it's our business to be incredibly transparency And I think it's our business to offer people lots of opportunities to learn from us and from others as to how to campaign More cheaply and more efficiently Darcy I would also say that There really isn't a rush here. We don't have An election for us in quite a while now So we wouldn't be able to see how this worked and I feel like it's so important to include those other elements In whatever we do Um That it's worth waiting to look at some You know putting forward some kind of a study committee Um Yes, basically that's me and joe. I'm sorry. Was there more? Okay So There is an election There is an election where people will be pulling papers in two weeks on july 1 And that is for library trustees six seats are up and that is for school committee and five seats are up There is also amherst housing authority and the oliver smith will elect her in that one too, but There is an election just because it's not our election doesn't mean it's not an important issue to do um And I want to just reiterate I can never say it as eloquently as Evan said it but First steps are important It is so hard to get a comprehensive bill of anything Past because it takes so long to find it and then a lot of people find a little thing wrong with It with some part of it and say well, I can't vote for it at all. I agree. This is just a first step This is not the be all end all of trying to find a way to level the playing field for council elections for school committee elections For library trustee elections To get people that we want to be running for office to run for office Individuals and it's not about what you can accept It's about the perception of when someone sees as as evan was saying Wow, someone can take a thousand dollars and my network couldn't have a single person donate more than 25 There's no way I can compete. I won't even enter that election and pull those papers If that's the type of perception we want then vote against this But that's not the perception I want in this town I want a perception where someone who knows that they can only gain A 30 or 40 dollar contribution because that's their network that they look at the 250 limit and say Well, I can compete against that. I have a shot and so I will take my chance And try it Even if they think they can't compete against a thousand. It's a first step It's not the end. We don't have to stop here. But if we don't start somewhere We might never get any of it done So if you think this is a good first step and I've heard steve say Well, it might not final at all. And so maybe I'll vote against it But he said it's a good first step. So if it's a good first step and something good vote for this Let's get it started and let's figure out who else wants to tackle this and see if we can come up with some more solutions Unless I hear other comments. I'd like to call a question Yeah, I just need to clarify. I don't think I ever said it's a good first step I think that I've been against it Pretty much 100% Thank you. Also, we have to there are there are these two candidates for town council that raised zero that that as far as I know had So you can run for town council with with zero Dorothy, I think if the public is listening to this they think they can't run without money Because that's all we've talked about my husband ran successfully for library trustee. I don't think he spent a nickel Money is not really the issue and my objections to this. It's not about money. It's about Other ways of getting people's name known out there and how trying to make a level playing field and that this does not address it Darcy and I would just say that You know, I I don't actually don't feel like this is a good first step that we should be doing to make sure that Your mic, please Your mic Oh, sorry We need to be doing them all simultaneously in order to to level the playing field and if we don't We actually set up a situation That is unfair Because it in fact it advantages people Who are supported by the PAC? If we put in limits to finance campaign finance Pat I think it Favors people who already have money And that it's on i'm just not close enough um I also heard andi's criticism of You the PAC the not PAC blah blah blah um, I would Not that it's a blah blah blah. It's an important issue. I don't understand and kathryn I think knows this for me. I don't understand why we have a PAC than amherst. I really don't I understand Why we have collections of citizens who work together? To do different things And I but so I would like to eliminate the PAC the not PAC from our conversation But this does not address the differences in personal finances and the impact that has on our elections so Are there further comments at this time? Then I call the question all those in favor of the limitation on can campaign contributions as presented Both this and the next page if you would Okay Please raise your hand and state I I Opposed it's a tie vote it fails I would like to say that if some of the issues were addressed In a rewrite I would be more favorable including the fine and penalties for breaking it Thank you. Let's move on to the next agenda item. Thank you The next agenda item is the community resource committee amendment I actually put this on here because There was a discussion as to whether or not Humanity resources wanted to look to expand their membership that was initially caused because one member had stepped down it turns out that member has Now been asked to be reinstated so Sarah is going to be on CRC. However, this is the community resource committee Charge and if the community resource committee would like to Look at their charge. We have left that open for all committees to do I don't know that this even requires a referral Okay Then we're going to move on to I which has accept the deed to the Grishik Property located on shootsbury road not the roll call votes each Oh, I'm sorry. Thank you. We need to do the quick roll call votes This is the mopping up of our previous work And so the first one is These are roll call votes and prior to FY 2000 I mean FY 20 budget approvals The first one is the regional school district motion one was voted 12 to 0 with one member absent On that was andy steinberg on april 22nd 2019 I think I have clarified that the however that does not prevent mr. Steinberg from voting this time Okay So the motion and I would like somebody to make this motion is I move that the town council approve The embers pellum regional school district operating and capital budget of 32 167 342 dollars And that the town raised the appropriate 16 444 279 As its share of that budget Is there a motion pat second? And it's a roll call councillor dumond Yes councillor graesmer. Yes councillor hannacky. Yes councillor pan. Yes councillor ross. Yes councillor ryan. Yes councillor shane. Yes councillor schreiber. Yes councillor steinberg. Yes councillor ball mill. Yes councillor bruer councillor de angeles. Yes It's 12 to 0 unanimous by roll call vote one member absent Okay, the next motion Motion two was voted 12 0 with one member absent. That was also that was andy steinberg On april 22nd 2019 and was amended as shown below But unanimous vote on may 6th. The motion is as follow. I move that the town vote to amend section Six of the embers pellum regional school district agreement By adding subsection j as follows for fiscal year 2020 only the alternate operating budget assessment shall be calculated As 30% of the five-year average of minimum contributions with remainder of the assessment allocated to the member towns In accordance with the per pupil method found in section six e of the embers regional school district Amherst pellum regional school district agreement the five-year average of minimum contributions will include the five most recent years Is there a motion Pam I so move second second That was george Any further discussion? I would we don't need that roll call vote, please councillor greezmer. Yes councillor hannagy. Yes councillor pan. Yes councillor ross. Yes councillor ryan. Yes councillor shane Yes councillor schreiber. Yes councillor steinberg. Yes councillor bowell mill. Yes councillor bruer councillor d'angeles. Yes councillor doomont. Yes the vote is 12 to 0 with one member absent. That was a roll call vote Okay, and the final one is was voted on on june 3rd just at our last meeting with 12 to 0 with one member absent and the motion is to adopt appropriation and transfer order fiscal year 20-0 for an order appropriating the town of amherst FY 2020 operating budget As recommended by the finance committee and shown on pages 10 and 11 Of the document entitled town council finance committee recommendations on fiscal year 2020 budget. Do I hear a motion? So moved second. I second councillor hannagy. Yes councillor pan. Yes councillor ross. Yes councillor ryan. Yes councillor shane Yes councillor schreiber. Yes councillor steinberg. Yes councillor bowell mill. Yes councillor bruer councillor d'angeles Yes councillor doomont. Yes councillor greasmer. Yes The vote is 12 to 0 roll call one member absent Okay, we're ready to move on to the next item, which is to the accept the deed to the cruciate property mr Yes Assistant town manager, excuse me Good evening. Dave zomek assistant town manager. I'm Pinching tonight for mr. Morey happy to answer any of your questions on this project I was before you back on april 20th. You may recall That this is a property on the shoots very it is a property that has land both in shoots very in pelham And back on april 17th. I believe at your meeting or april 20th. I'm sorry You Authorize the submittal of a grant agreement for reimbursement through d. E. P So we are purchasing a piece of property that has been deemed critical to protecting our water supply on the pelham shoots very line And we are receiving a 50 percent reimbursement from the state to do so So one of the final steps in that process is for you to accept the deed you are the water commissioners for the town of amherst and That is your official role to accept the deed. We will then move forward to purchase the land All of this is a little bit We're we're pressed on this because d. E. P. Has a very inflexible process and we apologize that this has moved so so quickly through that But d. E. P. Has their regulations and we need to follow them So we would ask tonight that you vote to accept the deed for the property And d. P. W. Staff will follow through And close on the property as soon as possible the total purchase price is Refreshing my own memory and and yours the total purchase is 82,600 dollars And the town will reimburse us 51 of that that is 41,300 dollars So our outlay from the water fund is 41 three and that includes the purchase price Plus some incidental costs. It may be surveying or appraisal or something like that And this is all done by appraisal. That's how we arrive at the number So happy to take your questions. Yeah other questions Yes, Dorothy. I just have a brief comment thanking you and the town of amherst for being proactive in preserving our water Thank you. I'll pass that along to mr. Moreing and amy rusecki who is The staff person as assistant superintendent public works Who really moves these forward and mr. Bachmann and I are happy to support them any way we can but it is their Their role and they do a great job doing it. Okay other. Yes, santi So two quick questions. One is in the item that was in the Packet, which is a quick claim deed under seven I It gives the consideration listed as 81,000 as a Even amount and so I was a little confused by the number you gave as being different from the number in the quick claim deed the other questions and so I get them both out is Is there a reason why we don't need an appropriation and transfer order to transfer money from The enterprise fund in addition to approving the deed Let's begin with the first question so I'm going to go with I'm going to go with what is in the deed Which is for the 81,000 Okay And then the question is do we need an appropriation? That I may To mr. Bachmann I don't know the answer exactly, but I believe that the town had appropriated funds previously for purchase The town meeting had appropriated funds In prior years to purchase land and this would be coming out of that funny things like $200,000 that was set aside by town meeting Didn't our april 22nd vote include to appropriate some money Margaret on april 22nd the council did vote to appropriate the money. This is this is simply the acceptance of the deed. Thank you So we've already done the appropriation. So your question was yes, we have to do that and we did it Okay Are there any other questions Can I just yes, I'm just looking at the memo that mr. Moring or Uh, it was from Amy Russeki back on april 17th And the amount was 82 six. So I did not have anything to do with drafting the deed So I think your vote I'm looking again to mr. Bachmann and and uh, so I'm I'm inclined to go with the larger figure We can always You know change the deed, but I I I think your vote should should reflect what The total project amount back on april 20th, which was 82 six, which was the amount we voted for the appropriation Yeah, okay, and I appreciate Andy's comment about the deed. I think there may be an inconsistency with that Could be the way it's drafted, right? So this is just acceptance of the deed We're not this is not the appropriation, right? And I would clarify further that 81 000 is the purchase price anything additional was Um associated costs. So what you did on april 20th Was the full 82 six. This is just for the purchase price. So I think that speaks to mr. Steinberg's I mean when you buy property, there's usually usually settlement costs, right? That's what the deed I think is correct that 81 that is the purchase price all the other costs are associated And those may be paid for through the water fund, but they wouldn't be paid to the individual Okay, does that make sense? Yep. Are there any other questions? Okay, the motion then that I need is move On this 17th day of june 2019 the town of amherst acting by and through its town council As the board of water commissioners hereby accepts the foregoing deed to property located on shootsbury road in palom And partly in shootsbury for water supply protection pursuant to general law c 40 ss 38 39 b and 41 An article 97 of the amendments of the massachusetts constitution and authorizes the town council president to execute The town council's acceptance of the deed on behalf of the town. Do I hear a motion? So moved Is there a second second? Further questions All those in favor raise your hand and say aye I Opposed Upstain 12 zero with one absent 12 zero zero with one absent. Thank you very much. Thank you Don't go away Okay, we're moving on to appointments And we're going to try to get back on schedule Appointments This is a report forwarded from the town manager through oka and Uh, it is regarding the conservation commission. Is there any comment from oka at this time? Yes, evan So oka considered the town manager Uh, recommended appointees to the conservation commission at our meeting last week It was a really great meeting that we had with the town manager present Oka is continuing to have conversations with the town manager about what sorts of information We hope to see accompanying his His appointments And that conversation really started in full force. I think with the conservation commission With the absence of some information for one of the Appointees, but we were able to get that information during the deliberation that we had And so we recommended approval of the town manager appointees to conservation commission Is there a question from the council? All right, then evan i'm going to read the motion and ask you to move it to confirm the town manager's appointments to the conservation commission effective july 1st 2019 is recommended by the outreach communication and appointments committee for three year terms expiring june 30th 2022 Anna devlin gothier kasey joe defraise defraison and laura paglia rulo For a two-year term to expire june 30th 2021 laurence ambs And brit butler So moved Is there a second second Any further discussion? Yes, elissa. I just need to um as we continue to refine our process here We have always in the past in our motions. I mean always in our past before town council Always included whether or not someone was a reappointment in the motion And brett butler in this case is a reappointment and that should be reflected in the motion Not merely by going and reading the report later to find that out I'm also have a question That the town manager can probably answer at the top of his head or perhaps evan can because I just noticed it now Even though I've read this report like three times Is that the three-year terms say effective july 1 or upon approval? in some cases The two-year term What? They're both effective july 1 I believe the those were vacancies So they're they're either july 1 or upon approval because those two represent vacancies whereas the other two do not So I guess I don't understand. There's reappointments. There's vacancies. There's a third thing So there are two vacancies right now on the conservation commission So, uh, there are other terms expire on july 1 So I'm recommending that anna devlin gothier and laura packley are roolo become effective on your vote Because they're they're they're no there's nobody sitting in there. They're in resignations exactly Okay, let's make sure we get this motion correct. So it's anna and laura Are to be effective immediately? And kasey is to be effective july 1 And Lawrence and bret are july 1 Margaret do you want to try to read a cleaned up motion? I mean, I can try if you would like the To confirm the town manager's appointments to the conservation commission effective july 1 2019 Or immediately as noted and we'll be sure to put immediately next to anna gothier and laura packley roolo As recommended by the outreach communications and appointments committee Next to brett butler's name will be a reappointment Other questions Do you accept that friendly amendment? Yes, george Thank you. Any further questions? If not all those in favor raise your hand and say I I opposed abstain Looked like it was 12 0 0 1 missing Okay, we're going on to Committee reports most of which I assume are going to be brief since many of the items tonight We're in fact reports of committees But let's see where we are Okay, audit committee anything pat We will become active in at the end of august. All right By law review committee. I believe we've already heard that is there anything else? Uh community resources committee community resources committee met last wednesday. We talked about Goals continued discussion of goals, but the primary thing that we talked about was the public I'm sorry the percent for art proposal So we met with the two proposers who who also had met with the council And we had a robust Discussion there are a lot of parts to this and I think that the conclusion that our committee came up with is remember Is that there should be a work group of some kind that can work with the proposers so perhaps Representatives from the crc from the finance committee the other group that it was referred to The proposers and maybe someone from the town manager's office, but we saw it as too big for this crc Make recommendations at this point anything else regarding crc Okay, uh the goals at hot committee. We are not scheduled to meet again until the middle of july finance committee andy anything additional No, I don't think there's anything additional and when are when are we taking up one person the one half percent for art? We will uh in our next meeting it is on the agenda I do not anticipate That we will have much time for discussion We will probably be using the opportunity only to talk about what our process will be going forward Um, I think that the remaining Community preservation act proposal will probably take a larger part of the time for the meeting. Thank you Um, anything else from finance? No, okay G.o.m. Mandy job nothing right now. We'll have a written report for next meeting. Okay, oka anything from Alyssa or evan I can we can just report that we'll have a lot of we we hope to have a lot of town manager appointments for july 1st And so some of those you've already seen because they've been filed some of those haven't been filed yet But we know he has them in process So it's just the time of year that's super busy for that sort of thing We'll be meeting consistently every week until we get that done Thank you Yes One thing um, since we don't have a written report this week is that last week We did have a joint meeting with the resident advisory committee To discuss sort of the shared challenges that we have since we're two separate committees with two very different charges But we face a lot of the same hurdles and uh, that was a really interesting conversation Can I just also ask the uh Resident appointments to the finance committee will those be coming to us on july 1st or will they be coming to us later in that? We began uh deliberation around the ochre designees recommended appointees today We did not finish that deliberation Uh, so that will continue on june 24th So should there be a vote on june 24th? Then i would anticipate that they would be to the full council by july 1 Thank you So we're going Question yes dorsi one one other thing the outreach subcommittee of the ochre committee is going to be sending out a Google form to all of you about the types of Outreach that we're all doing So that we can share it with each other so expect that shortly Great. Thank you Any further comments on committees at this time? Okay, we're moving to approval of minutes Uh, we're approving minutes for may 28th 2019 june 3rd 2019 and two sets for june 10th 2019 Is there any motion? Okay. I move to approve move to approve The may 28th 2019 june 3rd 2019 and june 10th 2019 both sets town council meeting minutes Oh, I see the way it's written. I'm sorry june 10th 2019 town council meeting minutes and june 10th 2019 capital improvement Program form minutes as presented Is there a motion george? second Dorothy I second it any changes amendments additions corrections Okay, all those in favor say aye by raising your hand and saying aye. Aye Opposed Upstain so it's 10 10 to 10 0 to 1 absent. Thank you Okay, uh, town managers report mr. Bachman Thank you Um, since you've talked a little bit about your google form, which is exciting that um Our community participation officers continue to reach into the community and they their paths are crossing with many town counselors Who are showing up at many of the same events, which is really a terrific thing I think you're also seeing that lssc has made a special effort to be in the community as well And with doing things at olympia oaks and butternut farms and things like that So that's a really good way to connect with people in an informal way And the community participation officers and the community Members who are attending really appreciate when the counselors show up. They really feel that that There's a nice connection there and they appreciate that a lot Some work that's happening in town is Ever source as will be There's a high tension high power line that goes through Amherst They are replacing those sort of the polls the the sort of Material that holds up the the high tension wires and they're going to replace them with singular polls This is going to be starting in july and it will go through probably december They Basically go door to door to people if they have to cross their property There will be no interruption of electricity in the town. This is just to upgrade their service That moves power through the town um the Other work that's happening is Station road so tomorrow morning The dpw will be there bright and early removing Installing the final signs and removing Coverings of signs. So tomorrow morning at 8 a.m. Station. Uh, I'm sorry. Did I say station road? I'm at state street state street will become one way Uh, sorry folks got our attention there got you got your attention Yeah, we'll be back. I'll be back to station road in a second state street will become one way and uh And so that will happen at 8 a.m. Tomorrow. There'll be police officers on duty throughout the week to help guide people from Lever road, you know Lever road at that point and uh at Uh mill street to help guide people. I think the weather is supposed to be not so great It's supposed to be overcast so it won't be really crowded But it'll be an educational process and that's the way we will do enforcement is to help people educate The key thing is that if you you can come down state street from Leveret road, but then you can't Go all the way through to uh mill street once you get underneath the railroad trestle You'll have to turn around and go back out So we think that that's going to increase public safety increase the ability of public safety vehicles to Get uh two puffers pond if there is an emergency Make it safer safer for pedestrians and bicyclists to travel on state street and Hopefully rationalize the parking there will be a reduction in parking unfortunately, but that is part of the that's the only way We could handle this Station road work is continuing on station road. They're out there today working as well The you know the bridge is on the side of the road waiting to be installed. They are they've been pouring concrete the concrete will have to Age until it can can handle the load that would be placed on it And then we'd be moving forward. There's still some calculations that the state has to Approve that we have provided to them We talked with at the um ribbon cutting for the mill street bridge We talked with the folks from the department of transportation They're totally aware of where we are on that station road bridge. So we think that that will continue to move forward Independence day is coming up july 4th and there will be fireworks By the umas Stadium But it's going to be different than there than it has been in the past because umas is doing construction You will still park in the same location, but you'll have to walk in front of the stadium to the other side of the stadium Where which is where the fireworks and where the big field will be and where fireworks will take place the We are looking at having a A tent where you can buy Beer that would be located. It's it'd be in the town of Hadley But it's one way to help us generate the funds that we need to cover the cost of this and So I don't make sure everyone was aware of that as well um I went to mention uh What else? Oh, um, we'll we've been talking a lot about safety, especially after the shooting in Virginia beach and I've talked with the president uh of the councils talked about safety in this room Uh during your meetings and at other times as well And express concern about what are the options? We do have um police officers who are trained in Threat assessments in response We're looking at our schedules to try and figure out a time when the council is able to meet with them Meet with our police officers to go through what the protocols would be what the options would be And what physical changes we could make to the building uh for our staff but also for people in public meetings as well short of having a Police officer stationed here although if the if the council or the president ever feels that there is a need for a police officer We would certainly have one here if there's a contentious issue that you perceive might become a problem we It's not uncommon for the town to have people in town hall who are Agitated for one reason or another We find we feel very comfortable that the police are literally about 90 seconds away it's So we call them when we need it and they are here instantaneously And the council should feel the same safety but also just what would happen and walk through some of the scenarios We've done this for town staff We're going to be doing it for the bang center as well It's not a happy thing that we have to do it But we do have people who have been trained in what's called alice training So we'd like to offer that to the council as well um I will be sending a memo To appoint su adet who is the assistant town clerk To be the temporary town clerk as we search for a new town clerk Under the charter that i'm allowed to do that for about 150 days I think is the maximum shouldn't take that long For a new town clerk, but we will be embarking on a search for a new town clerk as well, and then Lastly went to Attended nancy baganos farewell on friday, which was attended by i don't know 120 people Lots of speeches and things like that She has served the town for 47 years the longest anyone has ever served the town in continuous full-time employment, which is a remarkable Accomplishment for her and we are and so just want to congratulate nancy on her Retirement, which is well earned and well deserved and she's been just a mainstay It's going to be really hard for people who are used to being in the senior center to Feel like oh nancy's not the director anymore We are in the search process for a new director and we're closing in on that hope to have an announcement pretty soon To be able to relate to the council Okay Okay, moving on to councilor comments Um Yes, i'm sorry is there a question about the time i thank you very much go ahead So in regards to as it says here in the section on human resources Appointing to adat and thank you for pointing that out to us But as we know margaret is leaving us and she's also serving as the clerk of the council as it says in the report And we haven't had a discussion about what that looks like. So are we going to have that? I have that in my comments wonderful Thank you Yes question for the town manager So the last several reports have essentially said the same thing on the e-street school rfp Um, i'm wondering if there's any more specificity you could give as to where that is in the process of the rfp becoming Something that would actually be released. Yeah, so I talked with uh It's it's between the trust and the procurement officer and the planning department and they I talked with natenloy He thought it would be ready by mid july to go out Yes, dorthy um in terms of Parking near puffers pond Somehow you've got to find some more parking For people who the only way to get there would be to drive. I do understand why you're changing the street It totally was unsafe without that change, but Somehow locate some parking which people can be informed of where they could park legally Then and still get a not too deep too big a walk to the pond That's a challenge because we don't own property where that Is easily done we people can park at mill street recreation area and walk Through the woods to get to the to the pond that way. That's it. That's first for many people. That's a fun walk You can also I mean you can walk it could you can park near kushman and walk through the woods to go there A lot of people do that as well There's handicap parking that's available on you know very adjacent to the pond But I think the puffer pond 2020 study had identified the need for additional parking and We have not prioritized that as terms of providing funds for that We've been having internal discussions about how do we generate more funds because it's not just town residents who use puffers pond There's a lot of other people who use it and we're trying to figure out a way that where it could generate some revenue that would both help support more oversight of the area in terms of Of patrols or things like that but also to generate some income to be able to create parking and things like that up there Are there additional questions of the town manager at this point? so last friday On my various trips up and down 116. I think I must have made about three or four Andy and I were presented With With this sign by the students at the lending library ribbon cutting at the for the Cracker farm bus stop And if you have a chance to drive by and see that that was really lots of fun And they totally appreciated having a show up. They even had a sign for us The town council retreat is is in fact scheduled for september 21st From nine to two the location to be determined. There is a special town meeting on august 19th And also on the 26th council meeting The one on august 19th will begin at five o'clock And that is when we will begin the process of doing the town evaluation Town manager's evaluation speaking of that Let me just state there has been an initial delay, but it will not affect the final timeline And that is because we are converting the town council and the employee survey To an electronic tool called survey monkey This will allow employees to ensure a anonymity Of their responses and allows us however to compile the responses by departments and At the same time when councilors answers theirs will still be able to sort them out and publish them by council responses But again, it will aggregate the responses Taking away some of the tedium Of putting the proposal together. I expect both of those to be going out this week Any questions on that? Okay, clerk of the council According to charters section 6.2 b A notice of a vacancy has been posted for the position of clerk of the council Uh, should we need an interim appointment section 33.3 b allows the town manager to appoint Someone on a temporary basis However, it is my intention To bring a recommendation regarding appointment of the clerk of the council to you at our july 1st meeting Questions Which of the two august town meetings starts at five? I'm sorry going back to that august 19th Yes, are we going to get any written information prior to july 1st about since just this is our first chance at doing this Another new thing i'm done. I hope to have both the job description as well as A motion and then after that the town manager would need to basically Make sure that our wishes are carried out yes I'm not still clear. Are we still doing sharing with the town? Are we doing that? Yeah, yes In fact, the if you look at the budget Are we sharing with who? The the town council clerk with the town clerk. Is it the same person? No, not necessarily at all. But we are still Having somebody from the town who will be part time for the council As well as looking at ways to accommodate for minutes, etc Trying to take into consideration all the things we've heard but not break the budget Do you have an additional question shall we? It's what's in everyone's mind. I'm sorry I think that question is on everyone's mind. It's on everyone's mind. Believe me I've been trying to push this one as far as we can and then we realized again according to the charter We had to post an announcement Okay Are there future agenda items? Councilor comments We have been asked by the topics not reasonably anticipated by the president 48 hours in advance to discuss the Pioneer Valley Planning Commission appointments and I think I've tried to sort through a bunch of stuff more emails than I've gotten on a lot of things at this point the Pioneer Valley Planning Commission recognizes as our regular commissioner Jack gem sick of the planning board, okay, and the Actually the select board appointed Christine gray mullin As the alternate a couple years ago Okay, the new mass general law or the mass general law about all of this says That a planning board member should be the original commissioner, but the alternate is appointed by the town manager so In an attempt to kind of clean this up And the reason this has come up is because tim brennan longtime executive director of Pioneer Valley Planning Commission is retiring and the two finalists candidates Are being interviewed on thursday the june 27th I've asked the planning board who is meeting on the 20th to vote their representative, whether it's to reaffirm Jack gem sick or whatever that's their vote And we will then also ask the town manager to proceed with an appointment Are there questions steve? so This is a great concern to me because I used to be the pvpc Rep when I was on the planning board and for a very long time Amherst used its two slots one for the planning board And the other one for the select board and that so the pvpc Pioneer Valley Planning Commission has many roles in Hamden and hampshire counties. So one is it's kind of a de facto planning Staff for those towns that are too small to have plain staff that provides some planning services But more importantly, it does a lot of big things that you know, believe it or you know, they affect our lives So one is they were major advocates for the relocation of the amtrak line from one side to the other and that happened at a time That amherst wasn't really paying attention to the pvpc And so that's about when I stepped on and and That was very frustrating But if we lost our You know, we lost our words So I came to realize that with the changing government I knew that kind of kruger was the select board rep But we the town council I guess I assume that there'd be a town council rep So the really the how I understood it is that jack gem sick was the planning board rep Connie kruger was the alternate this being amherst christine gray mullen also wanted to serve So they made her a second alternate. So really she was the alternate to So the idea would be that she and jack would split the position, but then connie would also attend So I guess I'm really concerned that you know It's been Six months since the change of government. I have no clue what the pvc is up to so it's impossible to find their minutes online They're Never rep on the pvc. They're Town council the We're coming in, you know, the crc is coming online. That'll be a reasonable conduit to it So that's a great concern So the other thing I did ask is that The planning board with mr. Gem sick provide us with a report that will be included in our july 1st Minutes, I've also been able to confirm that they he regularly attends the meetings as a commissioner As and I believe that christine gray mullen does as well So I knock and and the way that it is set up is that until they are replaced They are considered commissioners. So we have continued to be represented. I think the question now comes to How do we want to move forward? But we do have to look at chapter 40 Be section four for guidance for that. So if I may At the time of the change of government the official roster of amherst representation to to the pvpc Jack gem sick and jack has the planning board reorganizes every year. They he does get elected So they had jack gem sick This is on their roster As the amherst rep connie kruger as the alternate and then christine gray mullen also as an alternate I don't understand why when connie kruger, she must have resigned why that didn't become vacant And then why we didn't then have a discussion about who should be filling connie's slot so there was no discussion that Then christine moves up to the only alternate. So I find that really You know, I find that very frustrating and I don't think you know, I know that a lot of communities have Two planning board reps as their reps, but we're a community that The town council is just coming We're fighting our way and I think that it's appropriate to have a town council rep on there because In part because the pvpc deals with issues of model law Matters that are of interest to the planning board, but also of interest to the legislative side so you agree that the planning board appoints the desic the representative and It's clueless to me as to why we would have had two alternates because you're only allowed one I know the back story, but it's not It's that It's too complicated to explain, but the official My understanding is that jack gemstick was the main Commissioner and connie kruger was the alternate and then christine was there just in case the other two Could not it could not be Okay, yes, this is amherst mr. Bachmann So, yeah, miss kruger said mr. Kruger resigned when when her term ended in december At that point we had mr. It's gemstick who was a Member and then we did we had a second alternate who was christine great mullen And that's what the pvpc has is their current roster You're right It is my responsibility to appoint someone and it can be a counselor. It can be someone else It could be a planning director. It could be lots of different people So but it is ultimately a responsibility And I understand I'm taking into I hear your concerns about having two planning board members And maybe it's broad better to have a broader representation On the pvpc so I can follow up on that that but I realize that that's my responsibility It wasn't a high priority for appointments because we had a person there and an alternate But it did come becomes more important when you're appointing the director for the pvpc Okay Further comments or questions. Yes, mandy joe So I guess I would only want to mention one other thing It sounds like by reading the law that it is the town manager's appointment at a minimum, but if you read the charter Section three Point two are It says so it says unless otherwise provided by intermunicipal or regional agreement measure or general law The manager self service service the town's liaison to any regional entity of which the town is a member and explore opportunities For intergovernmental cooperation, so I don't know how that fits into Chapter 40 b section 4 in terms of how the town manager appoints a alternate because you could Potentially read that to see to say the town manager is the alternate So I don't know why That should be Figured out before I think we have any further discussion maybe at the council as to what to do, but So I I do have section 40 b's chapter 40 b Section 4 the statement reads there may be an alternate designee Who may or may not be a planning board member who shall be a resident of the city or town? He represents appointed angely and certified in writing to the district planning commission by the mayor in the city confirmed by the council or in the case of a city with the plan E form of government appointed annually by the city manager Or in a town by the selectman or in towns with manager form of government by the town manager Who may attend meetings of the district planning commission and who shall Assume the rates and duties of the planning board member in his absent The alternative designee shall be named in writing to the district planning commission Annually in order that he may perform the duties and exercise the powers authorized in this section So based on state law, I read it that the town manager can do it or can appoint someone Yes, elissa trying to keep track of three things. I want to say about this because I know we're in a hurry So I actually disagree I think that the way this is written is actually different than the way Most mgls are written about what cities and towns do we are none of these things We are literally none of the things that are listed in the mgl because they don't just say city or town They do all this goofy stuff like plan E this city that So I would argue that there is something to be said for what the charter says associated with it So the week should have legal counsel look at them side by side Rather than making an assumption here The reason the select board did it in the past is because we were told to do it Not because somebody had actually read the law and told us the right thing to do So that happens And the other thing is associated with that I was very grateful to hear That piney valley planning commission said that both our people are You know certified as being the people who can vote because I wanted to make sure they didn't show up that night to vote on Like the biggest decision they've made in a while and then they say ah now we don't have your paperwork So that was my concern when I started asking this question. However, again mgl doesn't say anything about alternates being able to continue until they're replaced It says that for the main person. It doesn't say that for the alternate So piney valley planning commission wants to affect i'm fine with that. So we got our two votes But that's not what it actually says. So I think we need a little more sorting out of this But my other concern my main concern was I wasn't going to hear later. Oh amherst didn't show up to vote for the replacement Okay, good. We got that covered and we we saw that we can vote My other concern is what steve was talking about even though both of us didn't know the other one was working on this Which is how to make that connection Between what the planning board does piney valley planning commission and what we do here And the fact that we wouldn't normally get a report and crc may well be a cool way So thank you for asking them to give us a report Okay, and I think we'll start with that and further conversations Okay, any further discussion on this steve? Thank you for bringing it and chris and also elissa for bringing this to our attention Um, we any further comment at this time before we move into executive session Okay, then I'm going to read the motion to somebody make it that the town council meet an executive session pursuant to the provision of mass general law c 30 a section 21a Six to discuss the purchase exchange lease or value of real property If the chair declares that the open an open meeting will have a detrimental impact on the Negotiating position of the public bottle body and mass general law c 30 a section 21a 7 to comply with or act under authority of any general or special law or federal grant and aid requirements Is there A motion so moved second And we will not return to open session. Thank you very much Oh, we have to take a roll call vote to go into executive session Margaret Counselor hannacky. Yes Counselor Pam. Yes. Counselor Ross. Yes. Counselor Ryan. Yes. Counselor shane. Yes. Counselor schreiber. Yes Counselor steinberg. Yes. Counselor ball mill. Yes. Counselor brewer. Yes. Counselor dangelis. Yes Counselor dumont. Yes. Counselor briesmer. Yes 12 00 One absent. Thank you