 Think about how they can work collaboratively across institutions to create a pathway for students from secondary education through post-secondary and grad education on into the workforce. So we have a couple of folks here represented and I've provided them with a couple of prompts on the front front end, but we will deviate from that as needed and appropriate. I'd like to take a moment to quickly introduce the folks that are here today and if you can just give a quick hand wave when I say a name that would be great. So we have Ari Hong from Topman College of Architecture and Urban Planning. We also have Akeemah Bracken. She's an MRT student here within Topman. We also have a Michigan alum who's now faculty at the University of Oklahoma and has been a participant in this work as well. Carla Jackson who serves, Carla Jackson Bell, my apologies, serves as a Dean of Architecture and Manufacturing at Tuskegee University, the home that Booker T built. And then lastly we have Andrew Chirm representing Florida A&M this afternoon. And like as mentioned within the blurb about this work, we just asked them to talk a little bit about their efforts to achieve equity within our particular education, their consulting based approach, the challenges that they may experience so on and so forth. And so with that I'll go ahead and kick it off. I'll pose the first question to Irene. Irene can you tell me a little bit about the nature of this budding relationship consortium and some of the activities that are associated with it. Yeah, there are a couple things so I guess the main thing is just to say that this consortium is budding but it's also based on some really long term relationships that our faculty have. So Andrew, Stephanie, you know, a lot of a lot of the faculty were really had, you know, started their, their academic careers and in the same institutions and so that led to these the building of the consortium. And so what we've done is, you know, the first year we got consolidated, and we had this awesome grant from Rackham, thank you, Edmund. And then what happened was is that we, we struggled a lot trying to find the right kind of focus for that so we had, you know, some funding. And so I think in the last year or so what we've been really trying to do is just diversify what we've been doing into a bunch of different initiatives, and invite all of our partners we have seven partners. So all the partner schools, I'll just kind of read them out really quickly are, as we mentioned, FAMU, we have Tuskegee, we have University of Oklahoma but we also have FIU, Florida International, Hampton, Howard, Morgan State. And so, again, it's a pretty big consortium but what we've been trying to do is just figure out what makes sense for each of us and sometimes it's three schools coming together. Sometimes it's the bachelor students coming together, sometimes it's faculty coming together. And so I can give you guys a quick overview, maybe with a few things is that if that's okay. I'm going to ask Andrew and Stephanie and Carla to give me a thumbs up if it's all right if I share screen and just kind of share some of the things we're doing really quickly. So I'm going to, I'm going to do that. But essentially we have a bunch of initiatives, and I'll just go over like three or four of them right now. So I'm going to share my screen here with you guys. I'm going to start off with not this screen. I'm going to try and find the right one. Share the right screen with you guys. Try that again. Okay, maybe not. How about this. Do you guys see FAMU and Taubman College thumbs up or yeah okay. And so this is an initiative that we're working on with Andrew, we're doing this together we're basically thinking about how we can do kind of, I think, teaching and making at the same time. And we're really kind of discussing not only the, you know, the traditional pedagogy behind that but what is the spatial technical pedagogy behind that, especially when we're in a remote context. So we both have these amazing CNC routers, and what we've developed is a workshop right now. I'll kind of just show you some highlights where we're running with our DMT program which is a rack and graduate program. And we are right now working on the router together. And I guess the highlight I wanted to show you guys was this next image is we are creating again the kind of like virtual remote pedagogy that goes with that. So that's one of the initiatives I want to invite Andrew when I'm just going to after I'm done with this overview I want Andrew to come and you know give his perspectives because it'll be more articulate than mine. Another initiative we're doing, and this is one that has FAMU students as well as OU students and some other of our partner schools involved which is, we have a mentoring program where advanced masters and bachelors of architecture students help mentor this Michigan arch preparatory program that we have. This program is run for about five years now. And it is with Detroit public schools and chemo is very much involved in this program. What we do is we have 20 mentors right now. So you can see here this is the arch prep remote website now that we're not in person. So again trying to understand how we engage all levels of architecture education. You can see some of the activities we're doing these are some of our mentors. We, we did introductions on the first day and how do you create sort of icebreaker icebreaker things through the internet. So we did things like ask them what sort of cheese based snacks they preferred so the mentors got to know each other, and they sort of put them put their pictures on which side of the cheese scale they're in and then we had some breakout sessions where we asked them why architecture school, what can underrepresented perspectives bring to architecture. And again they're working with 60 or so Detroit public school students right now across three different schools in the junior year of their, of their education Another thing we've done is you'll see this website but we have essentially what is a consortium mentorship journal so the 20 mentors. Basically we asked them what was awesome in your mentorship session today, what was awkward in your mentorship session so they do five mentorship sessions with the students. I'm going to stop sharing now but some other things that we're working on our shared programming. I'm so happy to have you have this really amazing spatial justice social justice series. And, and we were able to sort of cross pollinate and participate with that so shared programming. We also have faculty development so Tuskegee faculty have participated on this Howard faculty have participated on this where we have junior faculty come and sit on our reviews which is a large part of the kind of faculty development. Yes, there are other things going on. One more thing is for our PhD students. We have again another kind of mentorship program going on with the MR students who are writing their maybe their first kind of thesis master's level thesis document with students at Morgan State and Hampton so this is just kind of a really quick overview and again I invite Andrew Stephanie and Carla obviously to contribute their perspectives on what they're interested in. There are other things going on like shared classrooms shared research shared grant initiatives that we're also looking into so again, I think the main point was that there are a lot of different things that we're doing. And the diversified approach really helped us, especially because we can then, you know, kind of calibrate to whatever initiative seem to really make sense in that moment so hopefully that's a good overview. I took a little bit of our time but again I'd love to hear the perspective of Andrew Stephanie Carla especially as as our partners what they're what their thoughts are if that makes sense. Absolutely in short you all are doing a lot so I think it's incredible. You know that you are able to kind of negotiate navigate across all the different activities and figure out which institutions should be included how they should be included. And that coming from the MSI partners and not being driven by by you all and so Andrew I'll invite you to add some reflections on on what was this year. No problem no problem and it has been two years, and for us almost two plus years in making we probably, I remember about four or five years ago having a Michigan PhD student and then another Michigan PhD student about four years ago Michael he's now teaching in Utah, coming for a workshop at my school for architecture week, but I think aggressively over the last two years, waiting and seeing when there is an appropriate fit because I would say to any school don't try to assume that your map and another school's map will automatically fit right away. And it's really just building a list of what is possible and then waiting and seeing when the time is right. I think the biggest thing for us and I would say the same would be for to speak in Howard. I think on one hand they're the obvious reasons why different places do it. But I think the hidden reason why many people don't realize we do it to let the other students and other institutions know we have quality. For us it's not as much about sending I mean whether my students go to Michigan and not hate to say it I really don't care, because they're going to go and they're going to live happily a rafter, no matter where they go. They have we have career fairs Gensler H okay they're all here. They know we have that you know they know we have talent, I think but part of the reason I would say we do it and other places do it is let other students know you haven't had a family student. Well, you know what if one of them is in your classroom, you're going to realize they may be the best and brightest one in the room. And I think that is why I think this fall, there was a course taught by Don Gilpin of Michigan that had family students in it. And this year we're doing a course with University of Utah and it's Utah and family students in the room. And part of it is to, we can't break the myth, and help people know hey that there's quality here. Unless we are both in the same space together, and all the students are on the same playing field and and I think that is very much why we do it because that makes. I think when people think of a program differently, you know, I think people's reaction is oh the poor little black college we have to help them and it's like no, you need our help you need our help not only for the obvious diversify, but you need talented and smart people in the room. And, and I think it's interesting I didn't expect CL on here and I actually realized that about family you play Virginia, family was Virginia Tech's homecoming victim must have been about 10 years ago 15 years ago before I gray hair and CL convinced me to bring family grad students to Virginia Tech for a common thesis discussion. And I would always say that any of these partnerships need to be where there's an even playing field for everyone involved. And people will realize that, you know, again like students they have more in common than others so our partnership has had many different things but I think the unique part of hours is in all cases the playing field is level. So family grad students talking the kids, Michigan wants to recruit it's family grad students in Michigan grad students in the same space. It's even both places in the same space, and I think that's what's going to be important, because I, I, this is about changing Michigan, it's not about changing family. I would say to every program unit that wants to get in these partnerships, make sure their partnerships. We don't need donations, and it's partnerships, and it's the majority school that will often benefit in ways they don't expect. But please note, all other school I've been told by my boss over and over again, you know, make sure every partner leaves a footprint in the sand, and they're not coming here just to steal the valuables, they got to invest in the crops in the field. So leave seed or leave footprint so I think up until now we've been happy because it's been a clear benefit to both parties, and a clear partnership, you know we don't we don't need it's about partners and a win win. So that's why I appreciate you for sharing that so the way that I've come to structure the, at least my approach to this work as an HBC you alum work for HBC us and kind of engagement or institutions. So one of the different ways is to ensure that this work is intellectually and culturally responsive right and I think you highlight that in many ways and thinking about, again what what value and assets do, you know, do, or does family bring to this space. So can we also learn from it but ultimately it's always something in it for you and you all should be benefiting from this work in ways that make sense to you right so I'm glad you share those reflections so candidly because that's what I hope to see. And as we kind of deal with this issue of, and it's not just with an architecture and urban planning but across the university in general where is in many incestuous to a point across, you know, someone comes from Berkeley, and then they send their students back to Berkeley and so on and so forth and then so the way that I think about it is what we need to engage our minority serving institution partners in the same way right like how do we engage in that same culture culturally intellectually responsive way to where I would like to point out, highlight and the talent that exists in these places, and challenge the elitism and bias that that we tend to have, or can often have on our side so thank you for those reflections. I'm shifting to question in transition, not necessarily transition but keeping in mind, we have a chemo who's an in mark student here on the call, and then we also have Dr bail who's also in senior leadership position right so we see two different ends of the perspective. So I'm curious as to, you know, from you all's perspective, you know, what, what are the goals and benefits of engaging in a relationship in this way both for you individually for the institution and but also the field and society at large. Yeah, I can start us off. So I think, I mean I always say this when I talk about the initiatives that we have it's like they're really close to my heart. And I think, having done an undergraduate degree also in a minor minority serving institution and I studied architecture, it can feel I can kind of feel like the only one and I feel like what we're bringing with these initiatives is that we're being able to work with different students from different universities like today we had a mentor mentorship call. And there were students from oh you there were students from family you there were students from, you know, a lot of the institutions that I read mentioned earlier, and they were engaging with our students at top and also students from Detroit public high schools. You know, these are just things that I wish I had when I was in school and so it's nice to be able to like, you know, draw those connections and meet with faculty and deans of their schools and and work with our school to kind of create these programming because I think they're necessary and they're super important. Thank you for sharing like a bell. Everybody or afternoon I'm sorry, I'm going to transition from another meeting so I'll be in my office in about five minutes sorry about that I'm not going to show my face while I'm in transition, but I'll be going on screen and just a few. I want to say, thank you for having this discussion I was just leaving a meeting with with UVA in a partnership, a potential partnership with a program that we're trying to master's program we're trying to start here because we're in historic further stations. So we, I will piggyback on what, what, what Andrew talked about, about the, the need for right now is, is they need in the country to partner with diverse entities diverse universities and so only the seven architecture programs which which have architecture degrees are really busy now. We getting a lot of calls from different, different universities to partner with us. And so we are a small program. We only have architecture and construction but we just, we just expanded to a BA in design and we have a, have a degree in minor in African American history and architecture, and a new minor in residential design and historic preservation. So we're, we're, we're really. We're really interdisciplinary program, and we are, we're in the process of working with a lot of different schools. I did, I did want to mention that with Talbot College, the school there we did work on a project with your dean, Dean Massey with a Mellon grant with Howard University, and we, we submitted that grant last, I think it was in December for social justice and you know, and they were interested in other companies and interested in having how, how we combining African American history, humanities and architecture together. And that, that dealt a lot with my minor that I received from any age they, they gave us some money to start up the first African American studies minor here at Tuskegee. And so the emphasis is, is African American studies and the built environment and the Tuskegee architects. So that is something that that we are that we are that we're looking for for the next three to five years. And we also welcome and we appreciate the faculty development piece where we have faculty that's traveled from Tuskegee to to Michigan to be on the juries and you're welcome to come down here when we when when the pandemic is over. But, but, but yes, this this is very important. This discussion is very important and and we have to, you have to understand that I'm, I'll say this as a dean that anything that we do. It has to have a benefit for Tuskegee at this point. And I'm a little bit different from Andrew, where, where we, we have a small faculty faculty here. And so we have we're overloaded with the things that we doing here so everything that we do a partner is going to be at a benefit for our program. And so that's what I had a conversation with UVA and can state can state is already on board with the Historic Preservation program that the master's program that we're trying to build and it will be the only historic preservation program and the HBCU in the southeast. And so that's that's those are the things that we're that we're doing we need that specialty area faculty for the specialty area. Faculty development factory factory faculty fellowships would be very conducive for this the growth of this program. And so those are the type of things that we're doing here at Tuskegee that that that we want to reach out and let you all know that we we're welcoming the the the the energy, but we want to make sure that you know that that we, we, we need that we we're going to ask for that support because of our low number of faculty members all of us are teaching and so we need, we need to our students are a great students and they and we and just like Andrew said we had, we have a career fair and the companies out there know about our students but it's so sad that the other predominantly white institutions don't really know what we're doing here. And so getting the message out is very important in this in this discussion is very important today. Great. Thank you for those reflections I really appreciate it, and many ways it highlights, for me, the, like the how idiosyncratic this work is and points out the work that Irene, you know, is doing in terms of like, leading the consortium from Michigan's right so I think it's a collaborative effort I'm just highlighting that she leaves it from our, our end, but this idea of, there's not a one size fits all approach to how we engage multiple partners because as Andrew points out again this is an opportunity to leverage and a space to where we can say hey we have talented, we have talented students, and you can you benefit from us right and then also what I hear you know from the perspective of Tuskegee is like we have great students but we also want to leverage resources to help support the bill and building capacity at our institution to create opportunities and pathways for for our students right and there's value in that and I think about I have a background in sales at work for a company that taught sales in the past and the one question that you always think about like what's in it for me. So, as I'm selling something somebody want to know what's in it for them and then for me that's always something. But then on the front end and came I appreciate your reflections there's this idea of both representation and needed support for diverse student student groups right and acknowledging that certain groups may not be very well represented in these spaces. How can we engage those who are currently in the process or throughout the entire pathway, engage, get them to engage with students early often and meaningful ways in order to strengthen that pathway right so I see in caps almost right. What are we doing at the entry point within architecture, architectural education to think about how we better engage students how do we make them feel seeing how do we better support them, but then also transitioning into actual support during the time frame and then engage in the the talent and resources across multiple multiple institutions and institutional types. So, thank you for all for those reflections. Stephanie, I want to pose a question to you right because you are similar profile in many ways similar to University of Michigan, in the sense that you are not designated a minority serving institution, though you all have a pretty high native student population there. So, what are motivations for you for you and University in Oklahoma to engage in a relationship or consortium like this. Great question because yeah in some ways we're between these two poles right on the call. So, we are about three hours drive from the next architecture school, either south or north. And so one of the things that has been so great about this consortium is connecting to peers who are invested in this work because we all, you know, I think one of the things that brings us all here is this recognition that the architecture profession has failed miserably at diversifying and especially if you look at, you know, the number of licensed architects who are people of color or women, and then like the head of firms, you know things like that. We're way behind in architecture and so here in Oklahoma we're wrestling with okay what can we do in our classrooms how can we connect to K through 12 initiatives. We can connect to the profession and so all of the initiatives that Irene and Akima and this group has started have given us a lot of different ideas and opportunities for the many ways in which to do this work and, and what's great is that there isn't one way right like this is a huge cultural shift that we're working on and so just being tapped into what everyone else is doing and and having all these opportunities for our students and faculty to take part and do the work that needs to be done I think has been tremendous and yes for us being a little isolated it's really really important and helpful. Thank you for that. So, one of the frameworks that kind of guides this work is from Carnegie Foundation network improvement communities and I did behind that is bringing folks together to address similar complex issues and I don't mean to explain it is generally an event that someone doesn't know so my apologies if you're familiar, but the idea is like how do you bring people together and to address, you know, complex issues towards creating sustainable and scalable solutions and so I see that in many ways at play within this consortium as as well right and doing it in ways that again are meaningful for each institution, but also the institution at large and for a little bit of background information. I read inherited this work from show on who did really great work. You know, kind of moving forward, you know, kind of built a framework within that we had many conversations about that that that very thing early on so how do we, you know, situate the work in a space above ourselves right so if we only approach it from the what do we stand to gain and don't situate it in what happens. What are the ultimate long term benefits then you know we short sided and we are able to make the progress we, we hope to make so I appreciate that reflection and thinking about like how we share across institutions to make the entire on feel function even greater so thank you for for that Irene. I just wanted to add I think maybe it. I'm probably just saying something that's already really evident but I think the thing that's most meaningful to me is just one the creation of these relationships. I think, like I've really gotten to know a lot of these consortium members even though I sort of inherited it but like, I feel like you know, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like a fan, I'm like everyone's fan club like Andrew is like my research guru, and like, you know, I just, I just want to really say I really appreciate the relationships but also I think it's that idea, you know, I think we've given a name to some of the initiatives to kind of collectively maybe think about them, you know we're starting to, you know, term it the sort of stacked mentorship model that we're building here. And the idea is, and I know that this is a word that is often used but the idea of pathways or pipeline or all this stuff it's it's a little bit hard for me to digest, especially, you know, being in the thick of it right now, particularly because it's so transactional you know I really appreciate what Carla, Dr bell and Carla saying about this idea that, you know, like, people are taxed it's like, you know architects themselves are one there's not that many of us right so we're underdogs to begin with. To there's not that much, you know, like, there may be more money coming around but there's just like the energy of the people like you really have to be very strategic very surgical and very specific about how you're investing your time. So I really say I appreciate our partners for continuing to invest in this. And for like, you know, I think, and also for Akima, and our other sort of, you know, younger partners on this very like especially like the mentors, all that stuff, really throwing their energy into this and like believing in growing architecture overall, as opposed to, you know, trying to find these kind of specific pathways or pipelines. So I think that's the that's the thing I really want to, you know, say that I appreciate especially the trust from our partners to keep doing this. Thank you. So, there's one thing that I think is always important address I don't think we ever like to address the question, but I think it helps for us to improve on our efforts so I'm cove it would stand and what are some of the challenges that you all face and trying to move a consortium like this forward Irene I'll start with you. I'm going to punt it to Andrew because I feel like we've been sure is it okay Andrew by just punt it to you and you talk about my problems everyone's, everyone's friends here. I would just out now say the biggest challenge is not interest. It's time and money that that everyone only and I reiterate restate what Carl had said everyone's taxed and everyone has three jobs and it's not even a matter of what's assigned to you it's no matter what you get assigned to take on other stuff because everyone's an alpha. So, well, you know, see else. So I think it's about time, and then it's about cost, you know, that I'll roll to back to what Carla said that we all have responsibilities within our own place. So we have this kind of hold on, what is it my job to do, and then what within that are the things I want to do, because there are things I want to do that have nothing to do with my job. And, and if I go and do someone else's job because I want to, I can't do what I need to do. So, you know, I think all of us, it's those, it's kind of blinders, and then within the space of my responsibilities. I don't fit. And if it doesn't then maybe I need to change my job but for many of us it's it's I do it within my responsibilities, but I need to maximize the resources my time my energy, and the financial resources and I'll go back to the notion of the plans Edmond said and pipeline within our university and most of ours, it's about getting kids from year one to out the door. I don't have time energy and finances to spend on pre college fourth grade to eighth grade STEM decisions at ninth grade. I just can't. I'm hoping someone else can take care of that. And when they walk in, you know, you help them understand what it means to be architecture major landscape major interior design major versus a construction major. And then how do I get them from a to out the door in a job living happily ever after a grad school with the resources I have the time, money, and just energy that's that's the real challenge right now. And it's even harder now, because as Carla said, everyone wants to, everyone's got a DEI initiative now, and they want to ask the black or brown BIPOC person what do you think and it's like, you know if you haven't asked me last year the year before I'm not I'm not time for you now. So, I appreciate the sharing that because I think that is true right. It becomes a trend thing right to check in with black and brown folks, and other folks from marginalized backgrounds right. So thank you for sharing that for sure Stephanie, your reflections on like some of the challenges, you know Kobe was standing. So, I would echo what Andrew said like it's money and time right, and, and I definitely thinking about like the question of K through 12 that's something we keep talking about here at oh you is like, oh there are all these high schools in Oklahoma City where if we could figure out a way to do something like Michigan is doing with the art prep program that would be amazing, but we don't have the people or the time so it's, that's the hardest thing to do is being models that work, and not having the resources to do anything similar and like that's a dream project maybe for this group is like, is there a way where we could create a network of high school programs modeled on what is done and find funding to support replicating that elsewhere because we have the need here and we have enthusiastic people but we but we lack the resources. So that's the hard thing is when you see something that works and you're like, oh, but we have no time or money to do it. I always say that spacing spacing time is one of the one of the biggest challenges and you know my experience that, but money is also key which is why we kind of position for providing the seed funding for these types of initiatives right. I just wanted, oh sorry before I interrupt Dr bell but I just wanted to say like, especially with like a chemo, like I just want to say we're something we're really proud of also that our mentors our student mentors. You know we pay them $50 an hour for five sessions so all together that's like a $250 honorarium and that's not a lot of money but for them that really values their time it gives them the flexibility. And that's one of the ways we're using the money is to is to give it directly to students and that was a chemo. Like, you got to put in the students pockets and so, again, I really want to, you know, like, you know, shine a light on that perspective and Dr bell I sort of jumped in line but I think Edmunds got a good question, he's got a good question line. I mean, that was a, I wanted to. I'm sorry, a question around. What do you see what seems to be promising from your perspective from this particular consortium and then came out of that same question for you as well from the student perspective. Well, I do, I do appreciate that we have been in this discussion I think this is, I know I can't remember but I think this is a third year, Andrew, I mean I think it's maybe the third second year. I do appreciate that and I, you know, I'm, I became Dean five years ago in 2016 and coming to a HBC you that I had to accreditation visits and within two years. Architecture was getting re accredited, accredited, and then construction was getting its first accreditation for first time in history, since 1893. So I was very busy, you know, very busy and teaching courses. And so, and so that, you know, the nap, they want us to partner, you know, they want us to partner and that's fine. But I do appreciate this team coming together early on so that we can grow. Now I did say before, you know, like I just got off the phone with UVA and they want to come and partner with us but like Penn State is already partnered with us you all have already partnered with us. You know, of course the HBC use already partnered with us but I tell my faculty all the time. If they don't have if we can't be if we can't. But as a faculty member can't get anything out of it, then why are you doing it. You have to be able to grow as a go like crazy Daniels Dr Daniels is assistant professor how can you get just associate professor for professor within up within that six years. That is that is our main goal, you know, research scholarship. And mentorship faculty development is very important to get tenure at these institutions. And so that's what me as a dean that's what I focus on as a faculty member and until the faculty member all the time. Focus on that don't get sidetracked on all these different activities, because they can they can wear you out with all these different activities but what is it going to do for you. You know, in this institution, because if it's if it's not that I'm going to say no, you cannot do that. You know I put put that aside that's something that's personal to you that you want to do. You could do that on the weekends but doing this time that this is we have so many things we have so these HBC use got a lot of opportunities got a lot of great students. So put your put your drive into these students put your driving to making sure they get a job, making sure they making sure they go to graduate school, making sure they have a have a pipeline to get to where they need to go in five years. Okay, so in five years and so we do have a problem with that getting our students out of our out of our architecture program in a timely manner that is that is the main problem that we have now since we have cove it. It has been even harder. Okay, because it, you know, everybody's doing this hybrid model now we're doing this hybrid and high flex model where faculty are teaching online. So that that's very important that we continue to do this, but be mindful of everybody's time and be mindful of, you know what can you do to benefit that other that that faculty member that student, you know that program, you know, you know, not just going to do that all day. But what can we do other than that, you know, provide fellowships for faculty members to come up to and get you know, get a certification and historic preservation, I don't know, but something something be creative we have to be really creative and we have we have this momentum now is this momentum around, you know, a diversity and inclusion and it's culture of acceptance. So let's, let's get motivated to do that and have a plan at the end to make this thing happen and keep it because another person said African American women are the lowest number of license architects we don't have enough license architects and women and women, after all women are very passionate. Okay, we're very passionate. So let's teach us something that we want to learn, not about traditional history of architecture the traditional we don't we know about all of that teach us something that we can take back to our communities, and we can understand how we can make our communities grow to the next level. So I just want to, I didn't want to go to in a tangent about that but that's kind of passionate. I think I think that's important. And given that we have came in here as a current student. I invite you to, you know, kind of share what you see is, you know, promising, you know, from, you know, promising things coming from this relationship. And then I'll add a second question. What's one takeaway that you would share to the group who, you know, for folks who may be interested in establishing a consortium or develop you know developing out these type of relationships or two part question. Join our consortium. So a little plug there. So I think, I think the first question that you asked kind of like goes into the second one. I think the willingness of the consortium members to like sit and meet with us one thing that Irene, and I did. When we first started working on as we sat down with as many members of the consortium that we could and try to figure out what their programs needed. So like all of our initiatives kind of step most of the initiatives stemmed out of like conversations that we had like, so fam you needed this thing so we created this thing or Morgan state wanted to have they needed people to help with their thesis so we created a mentorship that had PhD students so all of these things kind of came out of, you know, just having conversations and, and, and I just really appreciate how honest and like open. A lot of the conversations have been like I've met with coming to Sanchez at Hampton, and she kind of like inspired on what we're doing for the under consideration discussion series like I literally had a conversation with her. And she's like, so this is great for talking to students like, can our students come. And it was something that we hadn't thought about because a lot of our program is just like we're used to being in the building and, you know, it's kind of who can fit in the room. But, you know, just talking to her and it kind of like inspired us to open it up and have members from all the consortiums and it's just nice to be on calls and have faculty and students and engage in topics that, you know, we're interested in and so I just think those those partnerships and just the willingness of the members to kind of just share what they need and share what they want or what they think their students would benefit from it kind of it is definitely shaped the work that I think we're doing. And then your other question like a takeaway for the other consortium. I think it should come down to the research I mean the relationships it's like if you have strong relationships, you're going to work hard when you trust the people that you're working with and they believe you and it's and like you guys said it's like an exchange and I think everyone kind of has something that they can bring to the table. So I think just basing it on just strong relationships is something that I'd advocate for I think anything good can come out of that. I'm just laughing because we've had some really good conversations and like even at first you know, we were talking to Professor Mohammed garipour at Morgan and he was just like so skeptical he was looking at us like I don't know. And I might have got a thumbs down from Carmina to at some point but it is like we go back to the drawing board and we kind of reassess what makes sense and what benefits everyone and I think it just you know it creates better work and better opportunities. I agree. Thank you for that. Stephanie one one takeaway for folks looking to do this work. Oh one just one I would say you need Irene and Akima and you need structure. So I realized all the work they've done is to create all of these different structures so for someone like me it's easy to, to tap into all of these things like Akima will email and say I need three students interested in this or you know we're looking to set up guest reviews or something and and that structure and all the work they're doing makes it very easy for us as partners. Thank you for that. Andrew, what's one takeaway to my one takeaways. I'm going to figure out how I can do make two takeaways one. All of the MSI, whether you're HPC you or HSI, I would remind people that they're all different and I'm trying to do this presentation and I'm calling it unified but not uniform. There are things that FAMU has in contact with Tuskegee rural population serving predominantly students of color, but there are also things FAMU hasn't come with Oklahoma in the middle of nowhere. And things like that and so they're not uniform public private rural urban young old, they're as varied as possible and I would tell place to keep that in mind the other part is that, you know, everyone everyone has a strategic plan and people put money where their mouth is and I'm always surprised of the places that want me to spend time doing stuff. I'm like, okay, who's going to pay for this. And then the question is well we're all going to pay you know or you were me I'm like no if you ain't paying for if you're not putting skin in the game. I'm not interested because then that tells me it's not high on your strategic plan because your strategic plan tells you where to spend your time and money. And so I came with my strategic plan. And so, you know, I think always keep in mind that everyone wants someone else to have skin in the game. And I'm always surprised that people that, you know, want stuff for free. But, but thank you thank you this has really been good. Yeah, thank you for that. Carla you're, you're okay. Sorry about that I had a call so I need to question over. I need to ask me the question again because I didn't hear you. What's your one takeaway for, you know, for someone else or another institution set up institutions, looking to do this type of work that you all have been engaging in so what should they be planning for what should they be considering. What should they be bringing to the table just you know one take away with that context. I talked with like I said I thought I was not going to work with UVA it from the beginning, I thought that it was going to be too much but we had a long conversation this morning and the vice provost was on the call, and he talked about research and a research and a research and a research for Tuskegee, you know, at it. So if you if you if you can have something as is that bring to the table already that you know that you're doing that that Tuskegee can add that we don't have to do a whole whole lot, you know, like writing a proposal right now, within, you know, right now be very difficult doing something that we've already done. And I think that the table at adding us because, you know, the, the research that you all are getting and you're working for you have to have a, a HPC to collaborate with and so with your institution so make sure that you understand that that you do that, and if the HPC is an opportunity to be first to be you know to be first on the proposal, give them the opportunity to do that because it's more attractive for companies to see that you're like Tuskegee your family or Hampton are pushing this and you are supporting us, because you know again we talked about a $5 million proposal that he received, you know, just right at the first time, you know, for one of us, it would take us a long time to write to receive a $5 million proposal, even though we have all of the minds here, but we don't have a support. And so, think of think about that make sure you bring you make sure you let them know that you're bringing something to the table, you want to support you want to you want to do this for your students and this this collaboration is very important for the future of architecture. Very good. And Irene, you'll be our closer. Gosh so much responsibility. I think for me the biggest takeaways that one size does not fit all, and that, you know, like listening really helps just kind of hearing what makes sense and then not be lazy about it not just being like taking stuff and face value but really trying to use the resources we have both the time and everything to one do the grunt work like a team and I like when she first joined as the program coordinator I was, I just kept saying to her grunt work, that's all we do grunt work, we're going to send the emails, we're going to make those Excel tables, we're going to send in those invoices and we're going to grunt work until we make it easy for our partners and I think that's something that we've been trying to do. And I think I'm like doing the Andrew thing where I've got like five takeaways. But, you know, I think again this idea of it being mutually beneficial. And even where, you know, Michigan is taking us out of like, I think for another philosophy is we take ourselves out of the equation. We're thinking about Michigan what Michigan is going to benefit from, we actually are thinking, what is this bringing to architecture, what is this bringing, how is this enriching the community of architecture, how is this growing the community of architecture because frankly we're still underdogs there's not that many of us out there, it's a tiny community. You know, and I think that's the thing that underscores like kind of my purpose in this right so my takeaway are those things right it's not one size fits all. And it's really just, you know, having a purpose that's outside of me or the institution or, you know, the kind of more ego driven interest. Very good. I say this all the time I ran I think architecture and the work that you are doing with your partner, you are partners is an exemplar on campus but I don't think beyond as well. So I first I appreciate you all kind of sharing your thoughts and reflections not just kind of summarize those takeaways. Really quick so I came up, I think you perhaps hit the nail on the head, just engaging in genuine relationship like acting on good faith to build rapport and to establish a relationship is critical right because anytime that you approach someone with the intent of, you know, pillaging, people can sense that right and quickly and quickly run away so I appreciate you even sharing a reflection on how some folks were a little, you know, a little reticent to engage, perhaps because they experienced that so many times before before, go ahead Irene. Well yeah I think that pillaging can also take the shape of wanting to give stuff to people right like forcing stuff on people that they don't want right like I think that that's also like a thing that like, you know, especially an R1 institution look at all the stuff we have and like doesn't everybody want our stuff and it's like, no people don't want your stuff. Exactly. I want to say something about that too. That's a that's a great great great point. We have I'm not going to name the, the university that for down the PWI that I'm talking about, but we've had a relationship with the PWI for since we since our inception you know the 1800s, both, both of the universities are land grant universities. But every time a faculty gets involved with the research and we want to collaborate with Tuskegee, they always benefit. They always benefit they get the buildings a big shiny buildings a big new science building they get the big grant but Tuskegee gets absolutely very, you know, just a small portion of it. Perhaps, perhaps, perhaps. And so they came to us, you know, when I was in the office of the provost to, to, to, to partner with us again. And the faculty said, and the Dean said absolutely not. Because you, we can we brought we partner with you several times in the beginning we have nothing to show for it. We have nothing to show for it. You have to look at it that way you have to always say, Okay, yes, this is going to benefit my institution but what is it going to benefit the entire profession. You know the other schools because all of us are schools of architecture not just HBCUs and PWI. So don't. So that's enabled very distraught about that but I had to call, I have to get them on the call and say, Well, you got to understand your history. You got to change your history you got to change your mindset. You got to change with the practices you had before and do something different this time. You know, go, like I said, let Tuskegee be first on a proposal let Tuskegee get the brand new shiny science building we need a brand new science building right now. There's a family school in the state that doesn't have a science building by Shelby, you know, Senator Shelby, you know he he he he funded a science building at every university in Alabama but Tuskegee. Why is that. So, so just, just think about that those type of things and I'm glad that Irene, and you and I think that this whole committee is supportive and understand that but I just wanted to throw that out there and let everybody know that that is that is. Make sure when you talk to your other institutions that is very important to consider. Yeah, I think that's incredibly important I think though that work with me Irene and others know that's something that I push for and it goes back to the game the culturally and intellectually responsive in engagement one we can't just, you know, take from and benefit and gain. And then as Irene points out like we can't just think that, you know, we, we just have all the resources to give and there's, there's no value to the institution and again as someone who attended and HBCU work for HBCUs and I've done research on minorities, you know, certain My, I work from Michigan I'm paid by Michigan, but I'm working on behalf of the MSI is right. So how do we create funding mechanisms that allow for us to work in their benefit. Michigan will benefit because we say that we engage with the MSI but how can we truly leverage our resources and engage in meaningful ways on behalf of MSI so always come from from that particular perspective. We're right at time. So the idea behind these coffee chats is like you just have enough time to talk, have a cup of coffee and then, and then perhaps follow up a little bit later. If folks who are on don't mind dropping their email, I think most of you know one another but just in case dropping email for folks to reach out for any questions, comments and concerns that they may have. Thank you all for those of you who are join your time, energy and effort is truly appreciate it to our panelists Irene, Akima, Andrew, Carla, and Stephanie you all incredible. They invite me to their quarterly meetings and I brag about how well their quarterly meetings go. And I tell everybody about it. I ring can testify this. You all are doing great work. I truly appreciate this. What you all are doing. We have another coffee chat coming up on March 31. It'll feature a faculty member from Purdue that focuses on mentoring on traditionally marginalized and student students and women and act science education, though it's not architecture and urban planner design that type of I think there's a lot to learn about, you know, and gain from that discussion so if you all want to join in, you can use the same register registration link that you use for today. And with that, we have a HBCU forum on that day. So, so we won't we probably I know my school I'm sure Andrew won't be there either but that's, but that is something that we would love to come to but I know we won't be able to be there. We'll record it and then so we're doing a series of these we're running as frequently as possible through at least June. So, if it's not every week, there may be a week in between but we're running these frequently so April 7 we have a faculty member from Illinois talking about inclusive teaching practices to support students from MSI as they transition into graduate school here. We have many more of these coming up but again I appreciate you I truly appreciate the work that you put into this. And I know what Irene I tend to, I don't, I don't know if I tend to push back but I think I said type parameters around what engagement couldn't show it look like and I just don't want it to be a situation where we just tap in the MSIs for their resources. And I want to ensure that we engage in ways that that makes sense. So, again, thank you all. It's nice architecture. It's nice here so hopefully you all can enjoy the day here or where you are if it's nice there so thank you all so much for for joining in today. I think Edna and I were just going to lawyer here for a little a couple seconds but it was really nice seeing you guys again.