 As part of this talks series, last year we spoke about some very interesting personality. We spoke to Sri Ajit Mrwalji, our national security advisor. And he explained about art of decision making. Also spoke to Sri Anand Bahindra and discussed art of handling failures. How he handles his failures. Another interesting episode was with Dr Anand Deshmande. Where he spoke about startup ecosystem.। 돌ish । । । । । । । । । । । । । । 快 । । । । こité Shcode । । in US handling India operations for Wikipedia. Thank you so much. I remember meeting you about 7-8 years back when I think you were in your second year of pharmacy in Pune and at that time you spoke that you have already started working for Wikipedia as a student or volunteering for Wikipedia as student. So now, how was your journey? How long you are working with Wikipedia and how your role has evolved? It's such a long time. Yeah, firstly, thank you so much for having me on this show and also thank you so much for being my mentor. I remember from the day I joined from that time, not just for Wikipedia whenever it came to bringing modern technologists to India including TED conferences, TEDx events to Wikipedia you have always been instrumental in supporting me as well as the entire TEDx and Wikipedia community so thank you so much for that. So almost like 7-8 years back Wikipedia decided to open its first ever physical office in India and they launched something called as India Education Program. The idea was simple. Wikipedia will go from colleges to colleges, universities to universities and work with college professors, deans and students to remove misconceptions about Wikipedia. So that was their first ever biggest global education program and I was fortunate enough to be part of that program. Dr. Sarasar Kutdesar was also instrumental in envisioning that entire campaign and global education program in India. It's been an amazing journey. At that time I just started joining as a volunteer and then eventually I started interacting with various volunteer communities. It's incredible. All of us speak different languages, different cultures but when it comes to sharing knowledge everyone is connected with that one same goal. Like if I know something and I will go to any extent like translating it, writing it for free of cost without expecting anything in return. So I feel very fortunate I am part of this movement. And now you are a director. And now you are a director at Wikipedia. So Wikipedia Swast is a special Wikipedia awareness scheme for the healthcare affiliates. Right now because of COVID-19 as well as in general Wikipedia gets 10 times more traffic as compared to CDC, WHO or any other site and last year we realized there is not even a single platform in India at least for Wikipedians in India to talk and collaborate with each other. So I spoke with couple of people in the US as well as the global community how we are going to solve this and that's when we come up with this initiative called Swast. It is a platform which gives tools, resources, financial, non-financial resources to the volunteer communities as well as anyone who would like to work with Wikipedia. So I am just a mere soldier in this Wikipedia world and then the real work is done by 70,000 plus volunteers. I just do my bit and pieces to make sure they have what they need. So Abhishek, you have 70,000 volunteers span across the world? Yes, at any given point of time minimum 70,000 people come online to edit Wikipedia. These people are not paid by anyone. These people don't have any other ulterior motive. These are passionate volunteers who believe some of our knowledge should be free and accessible to all. So some are paid people who are working like you are an employee of Wikipedia, right? So Wikipedia ecosystem is totally different. There are user groups, chapter like TEDx no one gets paid to edit Wikipedia not even a single person officially from Wikimedia Foundation or Wikimedia affiliates gets paid to edit Wikipedia. What people can get to pay it or can ask for money is to do workshops, do fundraising, do partnerships. So I am mainly focused on fundraising and partnerships. So that's the how Wikipedia is an open source model. Anyone can edit Wikipedia. Same way Wikipedia is also democratic when it comes to the management. Tomorrow anyone can run for election and sit on a board, they can become a board member of Wikimedia Foundation which is a parent organization body. Apart from Wikimedia Foundation there are various affiliates, there are local user groups, there are local chapters, there are projects like Wikipedia Swas. So currently what is the footprint of Wikipedia? Global footprint in a sense. Global footprint, it's the fifth biggest website in the world Facebook, Google, Microsoft, Yahoo and then Wikipedia. All these top websites have more than 10,000 plus employees. Wikipedia including all the affiliates will have around at least around 400 to 500 people, that said. And it is world's fifth biggest website in terms of readership. For COVID-19 itself we are getting somewhere around 3 to 4 million hits per article. But when it comes to Wikipedia authenticity of knowledge or authenticity of description which is given on is always questioned this challenge. How you actually go ahead and try to maintain the sanity of that platform or sanity of the post, the content part of it. So Wikipedia has very few basic rules. First is notability. Many people say like, this website goes on Wikipedia or doesn't go on Wikipedia. First is notability. Who decides notability? Press, media, scientific journals, articles. I can say I climb say 10 floors. Is it notable? Does it belong on Wikipedia? As compared to say I climb Mount Everest. But who says that? Is it my Facebook post? Is it my Twitter or some mountaineering article is saying that maybe at times of India or few media reports say that. So first we established notability. Once the basic notability is established, then second question we ask is does it deserve to have a separate Wikipedia page? For example, say Hari Sadhu climbed the Mount Everest. Did he climb it? Yes, no, if yes. What is article is going to say? Just one sentence. Or there is a Mount Everest article and they have a table of people, all the people who climb the Mount Everest. His name will go there. There are different notability criterias for different things say I want to write about scooter. Who will be a neutral point reference for a scooter is auto car India or a neutral journals, not scooters own website because scooters own website will be always the second coming to your thing about credibility and then the credibility is linked to the first notability and reference part because these are third references and we rely on reliable references. That's where the credibility comes into picture and everything and why we keep what makes Wikipedia so special in this aspect is it is managed by the community. No one has any hidden interest in putting any content out there. Volunteers are working day and night to make sure information is available and accessible to all. But if you talk to some of the people they say that they have went ahead and edited or corrected some information on Wikipedia but again Wikipedia reverse it back to the original content and sometime wrong message or wrong content actually gets propagated on Wikipedia that's complaint of many of the users of Wikipedia. First of all Wikipedia as such we don't have any staff we don't have any officers we don't have any paid editors Wikipedia is like people like you and me. If there are 10 lakh people watching a COVID article per day that means any given second there are at least 500 to 600 people out of 600 you just need one person to see something is wrong they go and click on the edit button and then they can remove the information. Simple thing is I just ask people have you seen Wikipedia's logo? Wikipedia's half globe and it's intentional it's not like graphic designer forgot to fill in the rest of the pieces it's always work in progress and there is always no one can say this article is perfect because edit button is always there as when it comes to anyone can edit it is partially true not anyone can edit all the time for example articles like COVID-19 are locked what does that mean only editors with specific funding in the community can go and click on the edit button and more you edit higher up you go in the ranks you start as an editor then you become reviewer then at the end you become admin and then the bureaucrat and at each and every level you get different rights starting from how to edit to block someone delete pages and again no one in this entire courses has any financial interest even me or anyone even Jimmy Wales who is founder of Wikipedia cannot say this should stay on Wikipedia or this should not stay on Wikipedia very interesting Abhishek now moving from Wikipedia we will actually talk about your journey because your journey is also very interesting I think you are from a very very small village in Maharashtra near Sulapu district where there are about 500 people 800 people and you started your journey so tell us about that how you actually came to Pune and eventually ended up working with Wikipedia and then now you are in US it's a phenomenal story I was born in a small village called as Borkha it is in the border of Sulapu and Usmanabad district very few people there will be more people may be sitting in your office at any given point of time than my entire village and I had severe asthma when I was a kid and very few people thought I will survive and I was home school most of the time and it was always interesting to me when I recovered from it eventually when I was like 12-13 year old I was really fortunate my parents gave me the best healthcare access in the world I am fortunate all my grandparents cousins all the family like made sure I get everything I needed but one thing that gave me was access to information and people who cared about me after around age of 13-14 when I eventually started going to school like a normal kid I joined national children science congress NCSC that time APJ Abdul Kala most doctor president and that was a turning point for me at that time no one took me seriously he is doing his own thing maybe he gets asthma attack let him do his own thing and I innovated my own irrigation technique at that time of course with the help of experts and all I was very tiny tiny part of that entire project one thing led to another and then the next thing I know is I was like right next to doctor APJ Abdul Kala I still remember it was back in December 2004 in Guwahati and that's also where I interacted with doctor Sirasri Buddha he was dean there at that time at IIT Guwahati and that was a turning point and I learnt what makes a small guy like me who spoke Marathi and the government department of science and technology launched a new tv series called as Hum Hongi Kamiab at that time that was the time of Indian Idol and Indian government was like we also need to do something in those lines and the auditions were going on and I was from Maharashtra that time I was studying in Lankrabodini, Solapur and then I had that uniform of like this Gandhi Topi, Kurta and everyone was like you study in Marathi medium like you are competing with people from convent school and I was like it's fine like I can speak Hindi and if they really want to understand me they will use translators I gave the audition and I was the only one selected from Maharashtra and that and I'm not saying that I was doing something extraordinary anyone living in my small community would have been able to do that only differentiating factor me and them I had access to opportunities and when it comes to Wikipedia or TEDx the same thing that drives me towards working for Wikipedia or TEDx or any other volunteer so how you started working for Wikipedia I think you started when you were in first year second year right 2009-10 2009 I was doing TEDx events I hosted more than 60 plus TEDx events in India and that time Wikipedia was starting so when you started hosting TEDx events you were in 10th or 12th so this was this Hamoge Kamiha was 2006-7 8-9 was TED India happened 2009 TED conferences came to India they launched and what was your age at that time I was 18 year old oh okay interesting I contacted them when I was I think 16 or 17 and they said the bare minimum age is 18 year old so I was waiting till my birthday and then the moment I turned 18 I started looking for these opportunities so TEDx and Wikipedia happened hand in hand the Gates Foundation played a very huge role 2009-10 was Gates Foundation celebrated their 10th anniversary and I hosted their live webcast in Pune and there were more people attending that webcast in Pune as compared to their headquarters and that was and the TEDx events I was doing Wikipedia was doing and Gates Foundation asked me like would you like to come to the US and at TED conference and then the TED team TEDx team worked really hard on like giving the scholarships making sure I have all the funds and because of the Gates Foundation that celebration I already had strong connections in the Pune community not strong I was just getting started and still the biggest challenge was who will trust 18 year old guy who want to start something related to TEDx Wikipedia in Pune and that's when people like you people like Dr. Sahasrabhu they came forward you guys never say it okay tell us what is your age you guys always talked about tell us your idea tell us what do you need in terms of support and that time all I needed was venue, space and some food for volunteer community and then that's when this we hosted events in persistent we hosted events in college of engineering Pune and I was really fortunate throughout the process either Dr. Sahasrabhu they you or anyone I interacted with no one even at even a single time asked me for a single penny not even a single rupee and that's what helped me a lot if you have a good idea if you're passionate about something people will be there to help you you just need to approach 100 people out of which 10 people listen to you and you just need 2-3 people and it's just about reaching out to more and more people so coming back to your question 2010-11 Wikipedia also decided to celebrate their 10th anniversary and because I already had a setup which was equipped to do support this kind of international events hosted the event they said we are starting an actual brand new office in India would you like to be part of it they have launched something called as ambassadors, Wikipedia education program ambassadors and as you can join as a volunteer concerned they are like various different open positions it's totally up to you and till that I always use Wikipedia when I learned about how platform functions I was amazed and I asked them is it available in local languages because if yes then only I will be like more motivated and they said yes it's available in Marathi in India as well as other languages because I said even with the TEDx that was the thing I stopped doing bigger events we hosted event at say persistent then we had like Marriott and all these big partners I said I wanted to take TEDx to the slump communities underprivileged communities and conduct events there and who sponsored it again like people like Gates Foundation stepped up and said like whatever resources you need we will give it to you all in kind resources same thing I told to the Wikipedia team I want to focus on local languages I want to make sure local culture, local heritage is well represented in Pune we have something like Pataleshwar caves Pataleshwar caves did not have article on Wikipedia Shinde Chhatri one thing comes to mind when you hear Pune is Shanewarwada and I was like Shanewarwada is amazing no doubt about it but Pune is much beyond Shanewarwada so what we started we started Wikipedia club Pune bunch of enthusiastic who love Pune city who love to share every Saturday Sunday go around this historic sites take photographs eat some food share some create some good memories and write articles on Wikipedia this model caught attention in someone in Africa in Sudan my friends there they say can you come to Sudan and teach us exactly what you are doing because we feel we can also use this so then that year it was the year of Arab Spring and after that I was fortunate to go through that process and then also be in the Sudan work with the local volunteers and see that part of the world and then that also made me believe we are same everyone is same everyone needs access to knowledge everyone needs a platform and what connects us is that human connection and drive to share our knowledge so that was like just the basic how I got introduced into Wikipedia like so the Gates Foundation Wikipedia Gates Foundation TEDx and then Wikipedia so Abhishek we will continue our discussion you have an interesting background and the organization which you work for like Wikipedia is extremely interesting so as you rightly said in the beginning that you rely on volunteers so how many volunteers are there in India which are currently editing Wikipedia articles unfortunately the number is 2 digit number on anywhere between 5 to 50 volunteers on Hindi is the biggest volunteer Wikipedia community but as compared to English we are like very few much and why it is important because see after 20-30 years when the next generation is want to learn about something if they don't find it on Google and Wikipedia they are going to say it does not exist and our cultured heritage is not well documented on Wikipedia so that's why I want to make sure we did a project with Nasik and most of the Kumbh Mela articles or information was written by foreigners who visited Nasik and that's when I pointed it out to the local community and then they were like okay as a Nasik citizen Kumbh Mela happens in our city it is our responsibility to make sure it is well represented on the web so just for that simple reason I believe we need more and more Indians to come on Wikipedia and be content creators see now this is age of artificial intelligence this is age of machine learning you may not require that many number of volunteers now because you can actually do a lot of data from you can source it you can analyze it and put it so are you or that Wikipedia is actively using artificial intelligence to reduce its reliance on volunteers the answer is for editing no we totally rely on human volunteers because machine translations are not that advanced yet and the second is of course we have bots for example if someone is doing particular edits on a particular pattern then we have bots who will identify another thing is copyrights Wikipedia does not allow copyrighted information if someone copy pays something from one site and then comes on Wikipedia we have automated bots who will quickly identified okay this is the source this is from where it is copied from and it will be removed right away so it is a combination of both bots as well as human volunteers but most of the work is done by human volunteers because Wikipedia is open source all the AI and all that technology is advancing but it's not advancing in that speed in open source open source community I think we have a long way to go it may or may not eventually happen hopefully it will happen but as of now no Wikipedia for content purely relies on human volunteers it was really interesting talking to you and before we conclude I would like to ask what you would like to say to our Indian youngsters especially students who are in their second year third year final year you know either they are doing technology or conventional courses what you would like to tell them based on your experience and your journey one simple thing I would say all you need is access to opportunities once you have access to opportunities firstly identifying the opportunity because I believe whatever I am doing anyone can do it from India and then the only thing which they lack right now is access to those opportunities access to information so I would say keep looking for opportunities on the internet who gives that access students have to get out or students have to find it thereby themselves they have to be proactive they have to be proactive and more than degree you need soft skills in today's world you need to know how to contact people and from a personal experience I can say that if you have something if you believe in something if you reach out to people they will help you out of 10 people you just need one person to believe in you and then give you resources and in order to do that you might need to reach out to 100 people and then sir you are another great example of that when I started now now at least people know me or I know people but when I started literally no one knew me at that time I was just some 18 year old kid trying to do random things in life and I found out opportunities I found out people I would be nothing without people like you doctor this and others so I would encourage youngsters if you believe in something see people in that field who is doing it and tell them your passion tell them why you are doing it and eventually they will help and support you I think we will conclude on this extremely positive note it was amazing talking to you Abhishek thanks for joining and talking to us thank you so much