 presentations were also solutions that the tendency of those of us who have been around a while is indeed to begin to fall into what the institutions are and have been. And we don't often enough, as Richard Tapia said, make ourselves a little bit uncomfortable by making those around us a lot uncomfortable and to push for the changes that are needed. So one of the partnerships that we need is like we see here where those of you who have been on the front line and gone through this more recently than those of us who have reached where we are have will be quite useful in this battle. And the things that each of you have done in terms of the things you founded, your accomplishments today will make it easier for those who come behind you. One of the attendees questions that was written was more information about grit, Cody. So if you want to take that one first and then we'll look for some hands. Yeah, absolutely. So it's actually for like a more extensive, much better written than I could explain explanation of what it is. Just type grit you Chicago on Google, and we put quite a bit of time into kind of describing as concise as possible sort of what our model is. But generally speaking, our goal is recruitment retention sustainability. And that comes without faculty influence. So it's basically a bunch of students who came together from diverse groups and tried to put together a solution and then decided to test it out. And each year we review what worked and what didn't modify that and move forward. And if you'd like to kind of chat about the specifics of it, you can. Fortunately, there's not too many people named Cody Hernandez. You could Google me or find me unlinked it. And I'd love to chat about it. Hi, everyone. Thank you for all this day of reflecting and I appreciate and I want to share something. I got ready for my PhD. I'm a Latinx migrant woman and I got ready for my PhD and I was exhausted. I decided that I don't be an academic and I want to be in academia because I feel that academia betrayed me and betrayed people. I think academia took advantage of me to put my name on papers or grants and get any benefit out of it. I thought just academia was not for me. And academia is a place where I also feel that I'm a survivor of academia. So I decided academia simply doesn't make me happy. And even living in academia was really challenging because I had different voices fooling me, oh, but you're very smart, but we need people. It's all about what the others need when institution needs, but we forget that over all we're human beings are people. So we forget about what is living, what is doing, what are we doing here? What are we doing? Daily lives in our jobs, in our institution, it's making life better. So I decided academia just doesn't make me happy and doesn't really serve me as a human being. So I identify with some of you, I admire you for staying in academia. That's really great. But I want to say there is a lot of work. Sometimes the work of making things more equitable, working on diversity, is our responsibility to everything. It's our responsibility in the systematic change, it's our responsibility, right? Because that's what we're told and because of the change we want to make. But I think it's everybody's responsibility and it's time that everybody just takes responsibility to make whatever you are right now in your institution, in your life, a better place for all of us. Academia is not the only way and I'm happier now working with students. And I decided I like students more and people more than writing papers. That's all my comment that I want so much and thank you for these engaging conversations. I hope we continue this conversation. Thank you. Thank you. And I would just remind the group that earlier in an earlier session, we heard that in these days, 75 to 80% of graduate students do not stay in academia and often don't complete the degree but find very worthwhile work. And part of our job is to be sure that that work is recognized as well. So thank you, Myra, for your comment. Any other panelists before we recognize Rati? Yeah, I just also want to thank Myra to say that you pointed to something about, you alluded to something relating to kind of people's health and well-being, really, that I think these are their choices. And it's really important for us to ensure in academia and in whatever institutional space that we're in that we are cultivating a culture where people are able to center on their health and well-being as they do whatever it is that they do and the choices that they take, they are not meant to feel like they are less than in any way, especially given the very real losses to health that I personally have taken and that I've seen so many take. So I really want to thank you for what you shared and for helping us for us to talk about this. Rati? Yeah, well, I was really, really impressed with these speakers in this Rising, the last three speakers. And I cannot help but think that for every one of them that so masterfully navigated all of these landmines, for every one of them there were probably hundreds or tens of them that may have tried and fallen. And it seems to me that more of them have to succeed. Now, don't we have to train them, allow some navigation leadership training things because normally if you're a STEM student, you're not learning that stuff at all in your classes and you're not very involved in learning how to be a leader and challenge the status quo or do things. All the people we have on the earlier panels are also leaders who have reached the pinnacle. For every one of us, there's a hundred others that didn't make it. So should we be working both on changing the institutions and also working on STEM, people who are in STEM careers in college and beyond, and training them on all of these aspects that were mentioned, how to raise complex issues, what to do. There's such sophisticated approaches that three of you talked about. Just show the data, don't confront. I mean, these are strategies that more people should be learning. So I'm just asking, why can't we do both? Because it seems that people say, let's just change the institutions. Let's not work on the URGs because let's not put the burden there because they are not the ones that we should be focusing on. And I think it should be an end. So I would love to get your perspective on that. So go ahead, Fatima. Go ahead. I think you and I are probably on the same page so you can go ahead. No, no, please go and I'll go after. OK, well, I agree. And I think, you know, I always struggle when people ask me, how did you do this? What advice can you give to early career researchers to do this kind of work? Because as much as I agree with you that a lot of the push can come from empowering early career researchers and from teaching resilience to early career researchers, I notice actually more the opposite of what you're describing in that institutions tend to want to fix the individual and do a lot of mindfulness training, a lot of resilience training, a lot of leadership training as a way to bypass their own responsibility as leadership to change the system, which is actually what is pushing us out. So I always say to people, take this with a grain of salt. But what I always say is at least with future research, we teach early career researchers and empower them to have their voices be heard. And at the same time, put institutional pressure, systems pressure and cultural pressure on the leadership that is actually the one responsible and has a lot of the power to make those changes without as much emotional burden, as was said before, rather just the discomfort of like making people uncomfortable, right? Whereas for us, it takes a lot of emotional toll on us. So I think we were I saw your face. I think we were on a similar page. Yeah, completely. And I think the the only thing to add to that is you've articulated it so beautifully, is that there's a very real cost to this, right? And I don't know that it is actually right that we should be trying to recruit more people into this if we're not actually doing the work of transforming our institutions, right? That to me does not make sense. I say that because when my mom learned about what I had been going through just a few years ago, she had a stroke. Like that was it's not worth it. You know, my husband was in supporting me. He developed shingles work and do shingles, right? We're both in academia and there's lots that start with, you know, for me, I develop prediabetes. These are very real things, right? That happened right after my stressful tenure case. So, yeah, they analogy the fish tank, the fish keep dying. It's time to change the water, not to keep adding fish to the tank. And I mean, at the end of the day, that if we should not continue to bring people into this, it should not. That should not be our focus. Our focus really should be on cultivating leadership with the people who are there or who have the positionality to do that, right? And I try to be very honest with the folks that I work with through the center about the costs of doing this work and navigating institutional change. I will also say that, you know, our institutions across society in this country, they're all steeped in that same history and that same culture. That being said, academia, it's the second most hierarchical institution in this country after the military, right? And other institutions are changing and ours are not. So if you want to be in this space and there are many gifts for doing so, you need to know our institutions aren't ready for us, right? And they will not, you know, likely be fully in our lifetimes because of the nature of change. So here's how to be healthy in this space and here's how to navigate institutional space and other institutional change in other spaces. But like what we need to do is organize and push leadership because they're the ones that need to make the change. What I see with what Cody described, what Fatima described and what I see with our early career fellows, there's so much powerful liberating, organizing, imagining what should our structures look like. There are these beautiful roadmaps for change that came out of what happened to Breonna Taylor and George Floyd. What happened before with Trayvon Martin, like you see that there are waves of Black student activism at campuses across this country that are roadmaps for institutional transformation for systemic change. Where are the institutional leaders who are really grappling with that? That's what I would like to see, you know? And again, you're gonna continue having innovators. You'll continue having the one or two of us who get through. That's not gonna achieve institutional change. Well, I think that's exactly the right note to end on. I think that that's absolutely right, that I would reframe it and say that all of us, not just the Traynees, but all of the institutional folks need to be reframed. And for the people in the sciences in particularly, because they know the words about bias and structural racism, but they really don't know what they mean. And what they do when they hear them is they hear you're a racist. And of course, what we're talking about is a human problem, it's the way our brains work, plus disregard of our own history. So I think the real battle is there.