 Podcasters round table round 113 have podcasts become more popular than blogs It's just one of the stories, but usually the first main story I lead off with we talk about but we're gonna wait for Daniel So we're gonna create a little space here. We have plenty of good stories awesome round table There's a new round table. We're gonna meet them in a second. We're like seven Subscribers away from 500 on YouTube So if you're watching the live stream of this and you're not subbed definitely podcasters round table Wait YouTube comm slash podcasters round table hit the sub and then hit that little bell I learned a little bit more today about notifications and now that works. Is it true that YouTube won't show? Everyone that asks for notifications notifications. Yes, that's true because They find out if they show all of them people more people unsubscribe than stay subscribed So anyways, it's a messy world Subscribe, hopefully we'll see you in the live one and yet numbers don't matter and we don't care But 500 is really cool. So let's just do it. Did you say numbers don't matter? Did you just say numbers don't matter? Numbers don't matter. Do they matter to you Paul wrong show buddy. Um, I just subscribe by the way So happy 493. There you go. I had night 494 call 495 we're shooting it up. See this we're gaming our own system here. I love it All right. Hey, let's meet the round table. David Jackson co-host welcome back buddy Yes, Dave Jackson from the school of podcasting dot com. I love that. All right Hey returning round table or Paul calling in welcome back. Hey, thank you for having me back All right, where can we find you Paul your podcast the podcast report calm? All right another podcast about podcasting. We love it. We're stacked here and the books are stacked and New round table or Jonathan welcome to your first round table or second. I'm counting for the t-shirt. I blew it I I didn't even know you you know what that's my fault because what I usually do before I bring on the extra guest is Search the site. That's one reason. It's great to have a website with names on it as I can search So ooh, you sneaked one in. All right. Well, welcome back, Jonathan. Oh, thank you. Yeah, I'm eight more to go and then I get that t-shirt That's right. That's right. It's a running meme. I don't count on it, but yeah, you're getting closer We got to watch out Paul's not gonna be able to come back pretty soon. All right Let's find some stories that we don't That we want to wait I'm sorry that we don't need Daniel for because we do have to do this podcast more popular than blogs actually Is that the one? Yeah, Daniel like that one too So Dave did you end up finding any stories because I'll lead off here. I'll lead off Dave I don't know if you have anything, but I'll lead off. I just saw this lot this headline and I thought this was perfect for Paul Actually, it's perfect for Dave too because he's the person in a box podcaster Donating to podcast via Amazon Alexa smart speaker I'm not a huge smart speaker fan for podcasts, but as another distribution point fine add it to the list I'm cool with that. I don't think it's gonna be huge. My opinion doesn't matter there What about donating to podcast via Amazon Alexa? Do you think that that would actually is this something we need? Is this something that you think would actually Spur on Money to podcasters is a good monetization technique. What do you think about that? I think they're working on it by the way is the story Yeah, yeah, yeah, first of all, it's not Does not exist. Don't don't yell at your device trying to donate to the show or get used to it Yeah, train yourself donate to the podcast around here. I Could now see friends coming to your house and be like hey donate to this random podcast. Yeah That's right. Yeah, that's similar to my idea that Dave. I wanted you to do the Teen Wolf Surfing thing on top of a van just blaring out Alexa play school of podcasting. Yeah, just activate everyone. That's really good I like that Talk about going viral It was Todd Crocker and who has a his car since out of Bluetooth signal to people Oh, yeah, he has these little pods buried around his city so that when if you're at a stoplight it somehow Display something. It's weird. What? Yeah, that sounds like a Dave Jackson hack to me Yeah, but I don't know. I mean, there's somebody who forgot to sign with his phone I'm surprised That like for me, I I love my woman in the tube I'm not sure I trust in the same way that I'm not sure I trust Facebook You know, I give them a lot of information, but I don't give them banking information I'm not sure I'm ready to give Jeff Bezos my my credit card. No Alexa you gave well, that's true, but I mean to do he has your credit card. That's true Yeah, I guess the whole thing of like, I don't know. It just seems weird to just trust That wait a minute. You've already trusted. Yeah, I'm gonna say he's already got it I have a one-click buy so it's just a matter saying, you know, I'm not sure about sleeping with my wife Yeah, I mean come on It's definitely not a hurdle. I don't think I do think I do think anything made easier Will become more abundant, right? So I think I it's very easy when someone makes it easy to Donate I've seen callouts on Twitter and they've gotten that I feel like they've gotten the threshold to to donate pretty Down pretty easily like I've clicked a like more than two clicks. I'd give me five bucks Give five bucks and it was done. So I could see Especially if it happens in real time where you're listening and they're like, hey if you want to help the show Just give a dollar. You can literally just tell it right now, you know, because you think about all that stuff that needs any kind of Logging name and password you're gonna have to do on your phone anyway in the in the what's her name app So and that's gonna then tie to some sort of skill So there's gonna be some sort of security in there and it's it's just as Ready to be hacked as anything else. So I'm trying to really ask here is are we all going to be rich very soon? Of course people just shouting at their no, of course not I think I think it always adds up a little bit at a time, right? And this being one Thing that could be easier. I don't I think it's I think it's cool. I mean again making anything easier. Yeah Helps Well, yeah, so on this chat is making a bad idea easier You think it's a bad idea? um Yeah, I think you have a donation button on your website ever pull paypal. Well, I did at one point and then I then I grew up It's it's not the model for what I'm doing, you know, and and I think what happens is is is is many times Will think Okay, I got 10 options for monetizing my show And we do all 10 and the problem is is because someone has a choice of 10 options They pick none of them But if you actually picked one option on that one option could do more than the 10 options if there was the choice and and You know, you got to figure through. Yeah, I like it. This is exactly what I'm looking for So before we hit record or live whatever I was telling, you know, I was telling everyone We're doing news stories, you know, we're talking about s-town getting sued I'm like, I don't really care about the details of that. Is there something we can extract for podcasters and this this is it I think Paul's pulled out the essence here. Yep. You know, is it a good idea and you know, well Paul, does that mean you only ask people to subscribe on itunes? I'm sorry apple podcast What about variety right the variety of choice is an interesting concept. Well, well, well, let's talk about that one Um, I don't tell people to subscribe anymore on five different platforms I tell them to go to the podcast report.com forward slash subscribe for more that gives them the choices And you don't think I mean do you think it's because they see their choice It's okay to have a bunch of choices, right? Well, but but the thing is the choice isn't the choice See now the choice is am I subscribing or am I not subscribing as opposed to what platform do I like? You know, I remember once sitting in a hotel room trying to crack this stitcher nut Listening to a podcast about podcasts where the podcast was telling me that only idiots listen to stitcher You know and on stitcher, you know, which was absolutely hilarious. Which one of us was that it wasn't no one here in the room and so it's You have to think about the audience that that you're dealing with and and all you know I'm the only person who would put up with being insulted for listening to stitcher, you know, most people go find screw you I don't need to listen to your show, you know And and the thing is if I give you 38 options first What was option number 17 again that type of thing that puts you in a bad place And I would just say what's the one thing you want your customer to do You know, and then how do you make it as easy as this humanly possible? And if you want them to donate, you know, you know, that is a fine model. It's worked for pbs It's worked for everybody throughout the years. It's a fine model But if you want them to donate then you make it as easy as this humanly possible Now maybe we take my subscribe model Maybe you have a donate page and on the donate page patreon paypal You know alexa or whatnot, but but but taking that one Dave's reaction even though Dave bought a thing about not wanting to give the credit card number I mean, there's all these emotions that pop up That's just going to cause all these question marks and they're not going to take the action Yeah, my my thought too is that back to my thing is I'm not overly impressed with Pick up on smart speakers. Maybe it's amazing. Whatever You're asking a very small percentage of your audience Yeah, do something right? So if you are going to be picky about those call to actions And you're going to cater to the less than 1% bingo. Maybe not a good idea bingo Awesome. Hey, I like it. See headline of the story. We didn't have to dig deep. We pulled out a lot. That was enjoyable All right, thanks. Let's see. Who's up Dave? Yeah, I uh Heard about this on rob greenlease speaker show and I guess this came out today or yesterday Our good friends over to Edison research came out with a report on smart speakers And basically the the thing I thought was interesting is they asked people You know, how do you listen to audio? And number four on the list is now AM FM radio And I I don't know why I thought it would be higher, but it's like number one was Smartphone number two was smart speaker and number three was Smartphone plugged into a smart speaker And then you got to AM FM and then way down there Uh at the bottom number five was a computer or laptop. So if you think people are sitting at a computer listening to audio Anywhere from and they have two groups It was kind of where they had first adopters and then they had the latest batch of people So every every time they gave out a number they gave you two Uh, so somewhere between six and nine percent are people listening on a computer So if you're thinking somebody well, they can just sit there and click on it like no They're they're listening on their phone the days of listening on a computer are Long behind it. So but and they just point out that uh, like people now have It's a 27 percent have three or more smart speakers in their house now So it's not not a matter of do you have one? It's how many do you have? And so that number has gone up quite a bit Over the years. So I think it's just and they mentioned how like in the past people were You know, they're doing things they're Playing with skills and things like that and now people are doing it more for security and cameras and you know walking and in You know, I know for me, I have great nieces and nephews They love her because they ask her to tell stories and jokes. It's a great babysitter I guess I guess if you have one of these the word the term skills is not bad But I find that to be such a barrier. I'm like, what what do you mean? I'm so confused. I don't even want to figure it out. I'm like, what do you mean a skill at a skill? But Just a side note the other thing is more people are Calling podcasts directly from the smart speaker Where it used to be they were, you know, dialing in a phone now They're like, nope I'll just because used to be they would start their phone connected to the smart speaker And now they're just going right to the smart speaker So they're I don't know if that's via tune in or their own skill or what's going on But more and more people are doing that. So it's just a a case where here's a device Made to you know, it's it's kind of an audio device And more people are buying them and hence we're going to get some trickle down from that I don't know that we're going to see a huge You know, but it's I think the the reports said people are listening To a smart speaker like two hours a day Most of that is for like news and current events, but A lot of podcasts that are news and current events. So I just saw that was like, well, here's another trickle Another another door Things coming in I think it's important to Ask And I think this is at Edison's been kind of hinting that this is what they're going to do at at movement next week Is you need to ask where the next audience member is going to come from And there are those in the community who believe the next audience member is going to come as soon as google fixes something Which presupposes that you know android users Um Who there's millions of android users out there who have not been able to figure out how to listen to a podcast Who finally can now that google has produced an app you got to ask where's the next Person going to come from and the next person is going to come from somebody who wants content Who realizes the value of said content? Um, they might not know what the word podcast means at all And this is an argument for changing the word. This is an argument for the next where the next audience is And you know i'm i'm going on a trip and i'm actually giving my folks one of those uh girls in a tube With um, actually they're getting the video version because it's an easy way for me to do a video phone call with them And um, they're the potential listener for the next show And the thing is I can't find any potential next listener source That is one third the size of the smart speaker So I know the hesitance to i'm not seeing any big blip right now. That's true numbers don't lie big fan of the numbers But if you don't you know, our next listeners Are coming from smart speakers. That's where they're coming from and so we got to optimize for my take I don't I think you know the google thing Um, I think the next listener also is someone who doesn't know they Maybe want a podcast exactly, but I mean and I think google Should be able to help a little bit in that saying Surfacing podcast saying you're looking for this topic. Guess what there's a whole podcast on this topic Yeah, when google actually integrates searching for a topic and and that appears in search results That'll be great. But but google google promises a lot of things You know and and google kills a lot of things and you know, I'm tired of press releases You know, um, I want to start testing product Well, is it the uh, the app that they have or the in the browser? Um, is that we're is it surfacing podcast? You're not that's embedded. Sorry, huh? Is that do is it doing it yet? Do we know dave? No, it's not yet It's not no surfacing podcast It will find a podcast if you search for the podcast right but the results are not showing up right and and google could turn it on Google could turn it on tomorrow. Um, or google would turn it on in 2030 Right, you know and and we just don't know the cool thing is is there are a gazillion smart speakers in people's homes right now So, you know, google changes the game past the press release stage Then then it changes our game, but until then i'm going for the smart speaker Yeah, i'm looking at my stats right now and in libson. I can see where i've had so far this year 181 plays of the school of podcasting on the woman in the tube Which is a very very very small percentage of my overall number right and again That's fine. And that's actually good, right? It's it's maybe audience that wasn't there before Going back to the next question using a call to action to those people might not be the best idea But we certainly want to reach those people right and that's the other key ingredient here. I made a video for it showing it off Uh, but I never talk about it. I'm always talking about you know apple and google I don't really say oh by the way. I'm also if you have a woman in the tube Tell her to enable the school of podcast So you you know if I if I gave that a little more love I might get that number up a little bit I can tell you I did not expect to spend the first 20 minutes of the show on smart speakers. So My only question on smart speakers is your topic General enough for the entire house like some of this stuff I listen to I would not want the entire house to listen to because it's I don't think people listen to podcasts together in the first place almost regardless of it. That's one of my main reasons why I don't think it's It's going to be huge, but so good point um I don't need my wife and I listen to the same podcast. I do not want to listen to it when she does She's either in a different place or not. We're ready to listen to it when I am so even then we're not listening together I I don't think it's going to be A huge deal. I could see people walking in going. What are you listening to? And they go. Oh, well, it's the the jamie and frank show and they go. What is that? But I don't I don't see I don't think we're going back to 1930. Come on children. Let's gather around a listener You know it's time to listen to ray. Hey kids. Come on. It's a round table to a I don't know how to do old timey radio voice clearly. I'm digital only people. It's not analog here All right. Well, hey, can we jump to my story next because it actually Transitions off of this one perfectly. That's the way we do it here. There we go perfectly like you planned it my friend so I I found a reddit posting um about somebody who boosted a facebook poster and promote his podcast and here is his results and There's a couple levels to this And there's a couple of take-homes from this um The next audience We're going to pay for we're either going to pay for them with our time or we're going to pay for them with our money And the first thing we need to do is we you know, what's what's really interesting here is if I can get 20 cents a download You know, if I can buy audience members for 15 cents, I win You know and and and it's not a You know, it's not a slave labor, um, you know fiverr type of world But it just basically takes money to reach a certain audience and to get them to click So I've been buying I've been buying audience members for customers lately um And and the best way to do that right now and here here's paul's hack of the week is is overcast um the the Model inside of overcast for buying an audience is fantastic. I know right now Yeah, you know, I spent 601 customer I spent $650 to get 180 subscribers Another one I spent 675 to get 186 subscribers another I spent 650 to get 192 and another I spent 625 to get 129 That's 600. I mean six dollars and 25 cents No, no, no, six 650 bucks very targeted audience. Okay. You're not we're not talking about 15 cents. No, no No, no, exactly. You know and that's the thing and that's why this whole idea that are you know, so basically It's about three 350 for me to buy an audience member Now for my for my clients three dollars and 50 cents three dollars and 50 cents Yeah For for my audience Um or for my clients they make four or five times that per listener So they're thrilled to spend that on one client I actually said hey here the results of the test when you want me to turn it back on And his response was why the hell did you turn it off? Right? You know, and so the next level is buying customers And so anybody who tracks that Um is absolutely fascinating to me and I think it's really interesting. So I really love this report The thing that was interesting about this report Was this particular person? Um boosted a facebook post and he got all sorts of really interesting Likes and follows and comments and all those things But if you look at his stats, what's really interesting is Is he got very very very few clicks? to the content And if you ran the math, he actually paid more per click several times more per click Um that i'm paying over and overcast and I want the dialogue to begin I want us to start going maybe my next customer comes From some money spent which means maybe my podcast needs to make some more money And which which propagates the whole thing So I just like the fact that the guy put it out there put out his numbers Shared it with the world Said what worked what didn't work I think more podcasters sharing this type of information with each other is absolutely fantastic So do you think I mean I will be honest and I built a What I would say is a good audience I don't know if I'd call it an audience uh following on facebook And I just don't use it because they don't show it. It is pay to play and It's just it really just It really just stops me from doing it. And so I am curious for business. This is fantastic if you if your show Is uh has a business model are hobbyists or people who just passionate are they Sort of out of luck or they're just it's just going to be harder Well, let's let's let's talk the pure hobbyist. Okay Dave you deal with a lot of people in the school of podcasting Okay I'm gonna put a random number out there the average podcaster seems to spend about a thousand dollars in equipment Between computers and hookups and that kind of stuff. Okay, what would make the hobbyist happier? A thousand dollars worth of equipment and three listeners Or a hundred dollars worth of equipment and 200 listeners You would think more listeners, but I wonder size. I see so many people get hung up on the tech Well, we are in a we're in a bubble. We enjoy the gear, right? Well, absolutely. And there's nothing wrong with that But buying a customer we should think about buying a customer the same way we think about buying a piece of tech Or about buying something else Yeah, I don't know and I don't know that hobbyists they don't need customers, right? They they do want to share Right. There's no there's no return for a lot of you know, the return is You what you want to be heard is heard. I mean there is a return Right, I'm I'm glad he said that because here's why people will spend 200 dollars on a dbx Because they go from sounding like this to sounding like this And all of a sudden they're like, oh, I can spend 200 dollars and instantly make a difference raise like you're ruining my audio um, where is if I spend 350 bucks and get a bigger audience They're going to trickle in probably over a week or so or however long the ad is And I'm not sure it's it's quite as immediate. I don't know it'd be interesting But I'm with paul. They should think about that I think one of the places you should look to you know, if you're going to put ads on something Find a show like yours and sponsor it. Yeah So wait, did I miss he boosted a post which I see this all the time boost a post I've heard it's it can be garbage to boost a post. Like you said, he didn't get he didn't get traction on the content But he got link. So what was the again? What did he get for boosting a post? Well, he listed everything, you know, he basically I mean he said Well, first of all, I said the episode he promoted received 458 downloads over the period normally it's 328 Which means he he claims about 120 variables Um, but the thing is what's interesting where I think his math is off Is if you look at his facebook results, which he gave us he gave us a screenshot of the ad, which is just fantastic He got 109 link clicks So he got 109 listens for You know, he got 109 listens for, um This let me see how much he spent he spent um 30 pounds So he he spent 30 pounds and got 109 listens, which means he basically paid three pounds per listen Which means he paid five bucks per listen You know, I'm getting subscribers Not just listens for for 350 You know, and I just think we need to start How much does it cost and and his audience is very different than the audience? I was buying for but and I'm not saying he did bad like I'm saying thank you for sharing the stats But but he boosted but all he got I mean he got a bunch of facebook fun But but the really the only number that counts is the 109 link clicks And we don't even know how far those click the subscribers And I love that and that's why the overcast thing is great because overcast you get how many clicks and you get how many subscribers Which is awesome. Thank you overcast but um You know that that's that you know, so 109 listens. What does that convert to you know? Can we take our can we take our iTunes stats and look at what our subscription rate is? Is that maybe how we figure this out? But man seems like 30 pounds for 109 listens is Way expensive. Yeah, if I was doing anything on facebook That's the whole thing is like what page do you direct people to and I would make a special page that says hey Click here to listen to the show. Here's a sample click here to subscribe And here's the directions on how to subscribe because I just don't want them to go to my website and click because it's way too easy to go meh and click away. Yeah, exactly I think that's a waste of cash Aida Aida min 423 in the youtube chat. We have two chats podcast around table dot com slash live And if you're watching on youtube this chat there says can we please not say the a word And so we're activating the device all the time. Can they fix this? Can we just can we this there's actually I have an answer to this There there is a because what was happening was a tv shows. Yeah, we're advertising theory That's not i'm sorry the s word the a word the gh word Um, there's actually a frequency that you can broadcast app that they won't pick up at So now, you know, so I have an alex and a google home I just said it right next to my tv and when the ads it doesn't go off anymore because if you broadcast it There's a certain frequency there. They're known to tune that out. So there is a setting on the device No, no No, it's a broadcaster. You can actually if you do your audio at a certain rate Alexa doesn't pick it up. I said it again. Oh, so for people who are Weird, I okay There is um in the podcast back to work that I I love dan benjamin a merlin man Um, their universal phrase. Maybe we can adopt it is ahoy dingus um They just need to make it a two word activation That's not that does not you just don't intentionally say like or unintentionally say Okay, whatever. Anyway, side note. Sorry if we're activating devices. We're trying You could see how many times Paul just couldn't even do it when you're thinking about it. So it's tough They need to fix that fix it Uh, let's see. I don't daniel's here, but I'm not sure. There he is. He's here. All right, cool Well, let's dig in that was in the title. So that was that was cool to cover that um and You both had this uh paul and daniel. So daniel since paul just did one Podcasts more popular than blogs. What's up with this with this article? This was an article that appeared on search engine journal And it uses google trends to say that the popularity of podcasts are increasing compared to the popularity of blogs Which are decreasing now I have to question the data on this and I It's funny. There's this feature in facebook called memories that will show you what's happened one year ago two years ago three years ago You know on today's date in the past and on this very day that we're recording this Or maybe it was yesterday facebook reminded me that two years ago I shared a post from tech crunch that was about the future of podcasting and it also used google trends data So what is google trends data? It's looking at the volume of searches for a term and I believe it's compared to the total volume of all other searches So in their post at search engine journal dot com They're making the case that people are searching for blogs less But they're searching for podcasts more and so therefore the popularity of podcasts are increasing whereas the popularity of blogs are decreasing I have some issues with their source data on that but paul also had this article on his list to share So i'm curious on paul's thoughts before I share mine When you're a hammer everything looks like a nail So, you know search engine watch tracking search engine terms as an indicator of what's important in the world You know, I I don't surprise I think though what's interesting especially for people who run schools of podcasting or who have I'm sorry dana. What's your group's name? podcaster society Yeah, or for those who have their own podcaster society The idea that these numbers are going up is is is really really interesting and and and what's interesting I think for other podcasters Is the terms that are going up are related to the production not necessarily the consumption And I think I think this is the key that we really want to look at there Are still a lot of people looking to figure out how to podcast You know and that number raises and raises and getting bigger and bigger and less and less people are looking at blogs You know how to blog and how to do this and how to do that so I think it's a telling story that Not only are we getting more listeners coming, but we're getting more we had competition And I know we're podcasters and we don't compete with each other blah blah blah but the fact the matter is um it's going up and The numbers are interesting and I was surprised by it and it's kind of cool and for a guy who has a book called How to podcast It's it's very very interesting for me. So that was my take on it I would say we do compete for with each other in for audience ears, but I think What what I usually try to get across is don't be competitive right or don't fear The other people in your niche work with them right because I've always said like Look If Dave and I work together Daniel Dave and I we do a show we all have shows about podcasting We mentioned so do you paul and so someone is going to find out about the podcast report today They may stop listening to my show and they might listen They might take that time and put it in the podcast report But it goes both ways and it either balances out or I'm not worried about it I'm more interested in getting people You know if you're helpful to get people where they want to be They're going to appreciate that so yeah, I do think we are In some way in competition. Anyways, that's always a fun topic But you know work together would be a lot smarter idea than being you know, like Looking it as a it was only one person could take home a trophy sort of situation agreed The problem I have with the article is their source data using google trends because It's constantly relative to many other factors really and you could look at google trends and come up with the completely wrong Conclusion of something for example Just use google trends to search for internet and you could come up with a conclusion that based on the google trends data The internet is dropping in popularity because you saw that internet was really searched for A decade or so ago, but more recently not as many people searching for internet. Therefore, it's not as popular I think it's a difference of interest versus Popularity maybe it would be the term. Maybe the other term would be usage Like if you look at the google trends data just for podcast or podcast or some form of that word You will see the big spike in 2005 When podcast was a word of the year, I think from dictionary dot com and leola port, you know, all of that That was the big splash of podcasting the first I think big inflection point of podcast in 2005 and You look at the search Trends data and you see that big spike You compare that to where things are today and it looks like oh today We're finally just reaching above that initial spike So it might seem like oh podcasts were really popular back in 2005 But they've taken a long time to have this quote resurgence To get back to that point and then finally exceed that point But that's not the case podcast consumption and awareness has grown constantly ever since 2005 so You have to be really careful when you're looking at the google trends data To try and make a case. I mean some of this the author did and we tweeted back and forth a little bit He did to his credit Compare this against some other terms like not just blog but also things like wordpress plugin And saw a decline in people looking for wordpress plugins or wordpress plugin, but I think that's also again people Maybe knowing where to go for things Like in the early days, maybe people didn't know oh wordpress.com is where you get or dot org. Sorry is where you get your wordpress plugins They didn't know that so they were searching back then now they know wordpress.org is where you get your plugins So they don't have to search for it as much so it's it's just The data I have issues with But the conclusion I think yeah more people are getting interested In consuming podcasts versus getting interested in consuming blogs then again I think a lot of people read blogs and they don't know they're reading a blog Pop I mean popularity. I don't know if that's sort of I don't know if that's a wrong term I mean if something is popular in that moment, it's going to get a lot of searches, right? I mean the Kardashians are probably a lot more popular Now than they were three years ago whatever. I have no idea, but I don't know if popular is wrong But yeah, I am just a what's what's the core? Take away more people are searching for podcasts me did it does it does it Does it measure how many people are searching for podcasts now as opposed to five years ago It's showing it again in relation to Total other searches so it's more like what is the percentage of global searches compared to Of this Compared to last year in the year before polo might describing this correctly. You're probably more in google trends day by day it's I think the big picture Outside the SEO nerd is it's it's it's not an absolute relative situation You know that explains the way the entire world's going Is is is the big thing you can't take this at conclusion You know cut, you know the classic causation and correlation issue Like that's what's at play here just because more people these terms are popping up more doesn't necessarily mean The eight implications they got from it Trying to bring it down less nerdy I thought I thought when you said it was a result of production as well as consumption In my brain, I was thinking more people producing podcasts So there's more people You know you said you said learning how to podcast typing in podcast like not necessarily like people looking For podcasts or remember and the term like the term You got when you think about search, um, if someone types in podcast That could be someone looking how to podcast looking for a good podcast Trying to find out how to podcast there could be a thousand reasons why somebody types in podcast But when they type in how to podcast, we know exactly what they're looking for You know or the podcasters round table podcast We know exactly what they're looking for and that's the other thing you have to look at You know at search results and zeitgeist and all those things is is what did somebody mean like daniel said You know, you know, somebody people type in the internet You know a lot of people go to google and they type in hotmail.com because they want to get their hotmail You know and you gotta look at the grand scheme of things, but if you look at a term by itself A specific term with a specific audience the specific thought and how that does things over time that can get interesting everything else is I just want to know if they compared the amount of searches for podcast against vidcast Because I think we're ahead By people and how many people search for people you can trust We're ahead of it guest Let's switch the name and then just mess up the numbers and then we won't be as popular as blogs anymore when we become Casts on the internet all right More popular than blogs, huh? I mean And how do you measure popularity really is it based on how many people are searching for or based on how many people are Consuming but how do you that's a that's a hard measurement, right? and What's consumption mean like someone reads a two paragraph blog versus listen to an hour podcast what's what's more What's what has more impact? That doesn't matter. I don't know. It's there's a lot of interesting questions Are blogs still relevant? Yes Like podcast you have to separate blogs as a technology Through blogs as as a format what Daniel said was dead on a lot of people read blogs They don't realize they well medium. I would call any I would call any article on the Interest on the web a blog in my opinion at this point Someone's reading, you know, I I get a blog. That's a brand that people come to the blog But I don't care if you're reading one article you're reading a blog. I mean I don't that gets That gets weird, but forget those definitions I I guess it's just text is text relevant I mean you look at medium and it certainly is and everyone likes to consume different ways I mean is Is having a blog for your podcast. Is that well, so I recently had a guy named benjamin hardy on the show Uh, benjamin is the number one writer with a bullet at medium I'm the number one pdf podcaster. So take that I would never doubt that ever ever. That's why I'm on your show and challenge challenge my claim But but but the number one medium guy. I mean I mean he's he's killing it medium is is massive And he's writing for it and he's performing for it and he's getting results from it So it's still incredibly valid incredibly viable um And and the thing is though It's just the thing about medium is is medium lets people go to medium to read medium articles and iTunes lets people come to listen to our all of our podcasts combine Um the the having people come do my own blog to watch my own posts You know to comment on my own page Um, I I think that's starting to go now All right. Well, I thought this might have related to something. I feel like I read something That jonathan said but maybe that's maybe it was somewhere else. Anyways, jonathan I thought you're a radio topa. Yeah story Was uh just from the main takeaway that you wrote in the shared doc was Really interesting. Why don't you tell us about? So I found this on uh on pod news Um radio topia has launched a podcast called everything is alive The the the podcast itself is just a premise of they're interviewing inanimate objects They interview inanimate objects. It's fantastic. I haven't even heard we have reached the pinnacle of daily interview projects It's great. I don't even I've never heard it and I don't it's already great I was the first episode and I felt Such a connection to louis the cola can't but perfect What I loved about it itself in relation to podcasting Is the story that it told the perspective that it told and that's one thing about the podcasting is Either the story you craft or how you present it can really change How it's delivered. I I was listening to a podcast and my perspective actually changed because of what someone said The way they said it I connected with them yeah, you So you because you in the end you see say your perspective shifted and yeah, I think you just explain that but Explain that again. What what shifted exactly like what made it? What was the change and you heard someone describing why they believe in something is what you said it was I had been trying to figure out Why the person would would believe Their perspective and I was trying to understand it. They then explained how they got to that perspective they explained What they're what they're feeling and I heard it in their voice. It's it's what text can't describe but when you hear someone talking it's It's just it's that sincerity of the person And and it came through and that's why this everything is alive They crafted a story that spoke to me in a way That I could not have heard it if I was listening in text Yeah, this I mean this this would be day time for dave's uh the power of podcasting tagline here, right? This is a difference, right? We're talking about blogs and relevancy and some people like to consume via reading Some people like to listen, but they can have that's you know, they always say Podcasts are more personal. It's like, well, what does that mean? Well, because you stick an earbud in your ears that makes something more personal because it's touching you It's got to be more to it than that and this is one of those ways, right? Dave yeah, I mean if I go back to the days when I I had a just a straight website in a newsletter Just a tone of voice takes you from words on a page to wait. There's an actual person back there doing that Right. So, I mean, what can we learn from a I mean, this is a big network and you said it's a I mean, it's it's a real podcast, right? Because they did say it's like a joke, but it's real I mean, they're just remember because a real podcast is on a big network doesn't mean anything No, but I'm saying what what implies to me what applies to me is that they put Major funds behind it, right? So so from their perspective, it doesn't mean it's good or anything But it says to me, hey, we're going to put money in this thing and gamble on it. Why they're just storytelling Right, and it's and I think the format of podcasting allows them to do something Different or they're laundering money Bye Come on. Tell me that doesn't answer a lot of questions about some of these podcasts No, I think I everybody watch Ozark on Netflix my friends like like it'll change your life. That's a great show Just a thought just talking out loud here. I'd love to wait a minute. Paul's not going to be in movement next week Does somebody want his neck, you know? Just a thought Have a day one day Yeah All right. Well, hey Interesting podcast. I'm I'm probably will you've what you've done is help Give them probably one more download because I'll have to listen to about a can of cola So well, I just subscribed to it because I want to check it out. I'm curious How can you have a podcast interviewing in anima objects? But the way that they crafted the story and how they talked with it it was like That sincerity, I mean they they developed such a story and made me think of things I was like it's a can of cola This this has got to be though a play for sponsors because think of it, you know a product is going to say Hey, can our product be the guest on your podcast? Oh, this is the new french made tv. Yeah That's a callback The video days Look that up on wikipedia kids That's it and the uh the big the big name show on a big network. Come on You guys don't remember the awesomeness that was the uh Oh now i'm forgetting her name. Uh kathy lee gifford podcast on podcast one back in the day Good stuff It was awesome Wow tiki bar tv. I don't know now i'm just throwing out old videos of my favorite for the best And and got a glad to cast with kasey mckinnon and rudy jackson I'm going way back to We're getting super down the red hole For me, you know also the thing that i've said for a long time what i want to see from podcasts Is anything different? Anything different like try something crazy like that I think i've always said that the most exciting podcasters are are like behind us like 10 years who didn't grow up with tv or radio Or you know copying their favorite thing, of course, they'll just copy other podcasts So it may not be uh much of a revolution But i want to see what the kids come up with the hey kids get out there create podcasts Do something new but hey anything different and if there's something to be taken away from it Use it for your own show and there are rumors that louis the can of cola is going to do a spin-off show And just do interviews It's on it's gonna never mind all right I saw another special out on fire and then of course, he'll do the uh the true crime podcast Right, that's it all right daniel We kind of hit on google podcast issues that paul has And things that need to be solved. What's wrong with google podcasts still? I think i put that in there, but you have um, well, here's one thing that is wrong You have a story here that you think is wrong with google podcast Yeah, I i haven't published this yet because i'm just not in a place. I can't publish much right now But i have made a tool i've cracked the code and i can check what i knew this was a i knew this was a third I knew this was a promotional play, but i still went with it I knew tenu had something will this tool be available Yes, it will eventually be available to the public. Um, right now It's just in beta only for members of podcast or society But I will make this available for everyone else to be able to use unless Google makes their own tool, but I can see what rss feeds are being used for any search result in google podcasts and I'm surprised by some of the results i'm finding on different podcasts For one of my own podcasts, for example, there were two rss feeds Existing in google podcasts. One of them was from speaker now Don't think that oh no speaker is hijacking people's rss feeds just like cast box was i'll get to cast box in a moment but it was my fault because I was grandfathered into back in the day when speaker was the only way to get on i heart radio and and all of that thing So I have one of my podcasts Being copied over to speaker automatically it's importing the rss feed I didn't realize that I still had the rss feed on speaker being published So therefore google indexed it And thus there are two rss feeds for my podcast inside of google podcasts I could redirect that one over at speaker So they give all of the tools necessary to either just delete the feed redirect it change its options anything like that Did you hear the new media show where they had the google podcast? Product manager on he said like how many millions two million This is the issue right this is the issue duplicate duplicate feeds So that was my error So I would say to anyone out there if your media host Or whatever tools you're using create an rss feed for your podcast too And it's not the rss feed you intend to be used just double check to make sure it's not Publishing a feed or um just search for your podcast and google podcasts if you can But the other thing I discovered is this whole cast box fiasco that happened a couple weeks ago where cast box It was discovered by james cridland that cast box was leaking or was uh Copying rss feeds changing the urls to their own websites and and publishing their mirrored rss feeds basically hijacking your audience unintentionally. Yeah, but very ignorantly A lot of those feeds still exist in google podcasts One particular podcaster to use this tool discovered that all of their podcasts Show up first the cast box feeds which are all now broken by the way Not redirected not told google to not index them. They're all there They're ranking higher than his own feeds because of what cast box did Thanks cast box. Yeah What box Anyone else go blank there? I went blank. All right Yeah cast box bad, uh, although anyways won't think of that because I don't like to spend too much time on services That probably won't be around and But but it is something to keep in mind To even just from your own perspective to think about what are all the possible rss feeds that could exist for your content And ensure that only the ones you want it's tough because I don't think most people would have I'm No, I hear the words, but I don't know what it really means. I don't think most people know what that really means I don't like I don't know where to look I don't know why I would have more than one even though I could have more than one We've heard wordpress can create an issue with multiple feeds Right. That's tough. What's the concern? What's the is is the idea that like your stats won't be accurate or you're gonna be getting downloads in the billions that That aren't counted because somebody's cash them. What's the I think it's more people won't get the updated version because Because they're tracing a broken feed. Yeah, okay. Yeah, that's possible. It could be ownership. It could be advertising It could be stats It's just not good to have a different feed Out there being subscribed to because then in this case like with castbox For those people who may be subscribed to the castbox versions of podcasts Now if those feeds are broken Then what there's there's nothing set up to migrate those users over and I don't know yet What google podcast does with a 301 redirect if it even honors that that's what? It said stargate pioneer had that speaker issue 301 redirects all around So it sounds like maybe that worked, but I don't know for sure We had I had a related question actually posted on a podcast around table com I think from the last round And it was from andy from photo biz x.com. I don't know. Hi guys He says I've been I've submitted My free podcast to google so his podcast and it's there and working fine But google is also displaying his premium feed which he wants to stop and he says do you have any ideas how to go about this? And I guess it's getting the premium feed from the website and Whatever controls on that are not working I suppose Yeah, probably um, I'm looking at some of the podcasts Is there code you can put in to like block google from picking up a feed? there is But google has to obey Well, and they said that you can add that Uh google play colon block. I think that's the code Tag that although it's the google play tag. I think it does also affect google podcast so that is a way to remove your podcast from their directory as well as much more technical thing is To set your site The the meta information the robots.txt and the meta tags for your feed To no index on that particular feed url, which is a much more technical thing That podcaster shouldn't have to worry about right in it But if that's you and you need that solution and it doesn't make sense Write down those words and then give it to someone who does make sense to uh, you know Your host or someone else who can solve that problem for you So someone who does your website what I anticipate is that at some point google will allow you to claim your podcast Or there will be an email address or a support channel that you'll be able to say. Yeah Yeah, something so you can say hey, can you remove this one or can you make sure this one's redirected or something like that? Yeah, it's interesting. Yeah, definitely don't think that that two million number is is accurate and this is probably Such a huge part of that. It's got to be paying up so many feeds That are essentially duplicate or stuff. You don't want your feed to be For your podcast. So that's interesting Yeah, this is one of those where I don't think the methodology of submit feed Approval by person was really such a bad system. I understand that's it's cool that they have this algorithm and all but it's like everybody's in but Right. It's doing a great job. It's scooping up all the podcasts apparently two million of them But it's it's a it's a less vetted system. It's getting it's getting the junk It's the streets and I I'm working on a new site and you know, I've got the code in the header I've submitted my my that link to google to crawl But there's no, you know used to be you'd get a message. Hey, we've received your You know, you you knew that you successfully submitted it and at this point you're just like, okay, come on And well here I am. I hope they find me Isn't that isn't didn't it didn't they say that if you go to that Podcast producer tool page or whatever where you can check it. It actually is kind of telling them This this is feed. This is a feed. I want quote unquote submitted. I think it I think it does ping them Sort of I thought he said that I don't remember if he said that I think I theorized I know I think I heard it again from like a source where I was like, oh What we heard earlier what we theorized earlier is a thing Um, it might be the case. I don't know Whatever use the go do it So is this going to bring about I I don't know if I dare ask this but is this going to be the new twitter bombing? Um, right submit a thousand feeds to to google with with, you know You know Lady gaga naked is the term or something and then people download your shows and and There's going to be all kinds of problems I think greenlee brought this up on new media show where there's going to be a definite rush of of like Of gaming the system of keyword stuffing, right? We're like, how do they how do they if in a surface a podcast on a subject How do they give the right one the right authority? Right, I mean If it's our if it's a podcast on Podcasting, I mean you you definitely could game that right who should be the one that shows up for that and how are you going to measure that? I mean, it's It's going to be open But you know, you would think if anyone could hopefully figure it out quickly I mean, they should already kind of have it figured out via via search. So who knows But yeah, it's it always opens up a new, you know, I mean youtube still figuring things out like that. So And that system is it's pretty well you would think pretty well honed at this point But even like the copyright the new system that YouTube hasn't even they've just barely started rolling out where people are re uploading other people's videos That's been a problem forever and now they're having this match where if you are the The first person to upload Owns the content right and so I Total sidebar, but this was really interesting to me is that someone was streaming live on facebook Someone was screen capturing it. I think it was h3h3 and uploading it To youtube immediately after the stream before they could get their version on youtube So that person who's stealing it essentially is in theory according youtube the content owner Well, they switched their live streaming platform And this is probably a play for google now live streaming on google like we're doing right now This makes us in real time the official first person to put this out Like if someone then took the round table and uploaded it, it would be caught I would I could claim hey take that down. That's clearly not that's clearly not theirs It's ours. So, you know With feeds, are they going to be able to say, you know, this person, you know, like daniel like you said like an email It's there right it's verifiable that it's mine And will there be like copyright claims where we could say hey Whether it's someone who's using it who they shouldn't be Like a cast box type thing. We're saying that's not that's not the right one. You got to take that down I don't know there will be it's this is something we're going to deal with forever, right New systems come out and people will trick them and we got to figure out how to get around them Did I freeze? Nope Huh, okay. You start talking. Oh, no. Yeah, you did. Oh, he is frozen. Yeah. Yeah. We'll use that as a thumbnail It's a very it's a very contemplative look there a lot of help I was just I was waiting for a very intense statement to come out and it's not coming All right, yeah reboot. What should I do? Uh, it's okay. We're about to wrap up. So you're good Uh, paul is actually a bot. Uh paul's not real and you it's been exposed. So Yeah All right, you guys will hey we are Right at the hour mark I don't know if anyone dave if you saw anything in the comments that definitely should be brought up Um, let me know there's definitely some good conversation. Uh, we have this issue Yeah, the update on the issue uh sp did a 301 and it did work as expected So you have a duplicate feed you can redirect it to the actual feed Assuming, you know what all that means Now to do it So right now for the nerds things are mostly okay For the general user, you know, we're going to need google to fix their problems Most likely All right. Well, hey as we head out Let us know where we can find your podcast and uh, thanks for joining us for another Round everyone in the chat. We do have we have two chats. I mean, it's kind of unavoidable We'll be doing live on on youtube And live in the chat room. So thanks to everyone who's in both places. I do see them both now So that's cool. Actually timothy's in both. So hey, he's a super chatter Um, I could turn on super chat. Do you talked about alexa? Oh, sorry. See it is impossible It's impossible not to say it Donations but super chat another way to get donations and now it does work. So the Person in a box thing It does the does the a word Does does is there a male version? Can you actually select? Can everyone just says the woman in a box? Is that only available in female voice? No, you got new voices now. Oh new voices now and you can also set it There's other activation words. You can actually do computer if you want to be all star trek you could say You know a computer, please do this and and other some stuff you can do in the settings So that's a good solution for people who are having that issue that we talked about Right where you listen to a lot of tech mod gas where they bring it up all the time switch the word for sure But not to computer if you go to no not if you think alexa goes off a lot There I just did it. Um, way to you turn it to computer and see what happens pro tip use two words that that aren't Part of natural speech. I think I'm hearing an echo That's what the other covers All right. Well, hey daniel. Thanks for joining us Thank you. I I really have to wonder how many times is The woman in the tube the box the whatever actually being activated I hear a lot of people complain or say hey, don't say her name But I've played things through my own speakers at home that say her name and she doesn't wake up Yeah, someone in the chat just asked us not to do it. So Well, yeah, I didn't I wanted to ask them that but anyway, I'm daniel j lewis from the audacity to podcast dot com Awesome and jonathan. Thanks for joining us not new rounds it for your second round table I think if you're having me it's uh always a fun. I listen to the show and actually I listen to all of your shows So see I found all all your shows through This show I I found I think I found daniel's first Yeah, I listen to all your shows nice. I mean so that shows you I mean he's not he didn't exchange one for the other So just can we just all get along? What's the phrase anyways and each of you bring a different perspective and that's what I like Very cool. Thanks. Where can we find your podcast so we can go into that? Um, you can find me at weekly awesome.com Mainly gaming shows, but I have an inspirational podcast as well. So I have about six podcasts only three are weekly Nice. All right. Well choose the one you like start there. It's always a good good entry point Dave Jackson Thanks, of course for always joining us. Dave always does such a good job of Of including these links that we're talking about then we switch this format in the chat So another cool reason to be here live Lots of our conversation and Dave's gonna always give you the link. I think that's you Dave, right? Is that you? Okay, I thought so. I'm not sure why I'd assume that but it is Dave and uh, yeah Podcasts around table.com slash live join us live. Anyways, it's just fun. But Dave. Thanks Yeah, Dave Jackson from school of podcasting.com I'm glad to be here another fun round under our belt. That's right. 113 climbing the charts Paul, welcome back. Thanks for joining us. I'm sure we will see you again Unless of course, this is your ninth and then it was great Well, thank you. I'm I'm the host of the kind of sad that I can't see Dave Jackson get, um, inducted in the hall of fame on Monday podcast Um, congratulations, Dave We're rooting for you even if we're not there Um, couldn't happen to a better guy. Thank you, sir. I I'm not sure how But I've heard rumors. It's going to be streamed live. I don't know how I heard somebody say I'm streaming it live And I'm like, I don't know that's possible But even if it's covert you've got my number texting. Yeah, it's pretty streaming live to the internet It's pretty easy these days Dave. Uh, yeah, I'm thinking of you know, facebook live something hold up phone Well, remember last year last year they, um archived the entire thing in 480p And funny enough, I think it's the only time in the history of cowley louis's online career where she's been host online in 480p If you watch on the phone, yeah, so, um Yeah, yeah, you'd think sponsors won as much connection as possible, but but oh well Awesome. Yeah. Hey, no super. Congrats, Dave. Actually, I you know the in my brain. It already happened. So That's amazing. Uh, I also won't be there, but uh, super congrats I'm sure we will see stuff come out of there from that And have fun everyone going to the uh podcast movement philly's awesome. So definitely have fun. All right Podcasts around table Dot com. I just clicked my tongue. That's terrible. I was trying not to do that I'm not editing that out. So sorry audio listeners. Maybe I will if I can remember mark that daniel I saw a mixed pre marker thing update in the chat. So Marker's going off in my head. All right Podcasts are in the podcast or trompe table dot com Uh slash guest if you want to join us, we'll see you next time around 14 wave. Goodbye. We're out of here. Thanks