 yma, yn y ddiwrnod ar y gwaith, ar y blynedd, o'r syniad, i'w rhaid, o'r pethau y 20 o 14 o 18 o 18, ac mae'n ateb o'r dyfodol yma, iken o'r phefyd, o'r smith o'r 16 o 11 o. a llwyddo'n gŵr, mae'r llwyddo. Felly mae'n hwg. 20 o 26. Dwi ddim eisiau allwch i ddefnyddio i'w ddetwng. Rhyw oateb oedd oedd o teffrous. Mennydd i'n gwyboden nhw o'n cael y byd i ni, maen nhw'n cael i ti. Rwy'n cael eu bod yn cwbl o'r blaenau ar y busg. Rwy'n cael eu bod yn cael eu chylau. Rwy'n cael eu bod yn cwbl o'n cael eu bod yn cael eu chylau. Ond mae'r ddechrau cyd-ddechrau. Mae'r ddechrau, ond mae'n ddechrau. Mae'n dda i'r ddechrau, ond mae'n ddefnyddio'n ffordd i'r ddechrau. Rwy'n cael eu ddechrau! No, I'm OK, I've got my fisherman friend. I was surprised how much they offered. They offered me more than I asked for. Well, that's good. Well, so 120... 160. 160 is all right. My God, that's a jump. That's a lot of work coming from somewhere around. I want to talk to their recruiter. There's an investor behind it probably. Yeah, but you have to agree. If there's no investor behind it, there's no way you can keep it up. You know, the change is being, you know, the investment capture made. Yeah, housing and stuff. We're nearly 50 people at one year in the Netherlands. I mean, I wanted to grow up on the ground. We're around 65 people, I'm done. OK, yeah. I'm not sure how long I'll stay there. Don't say that's setting up a company yourself. Well, I've been contracting the last couple of years. I'm not quite sure I'm doing that. I'm going around the country. Yeah. I was over an island last year. So where do you live? I live in the middle of the Netherlands. Oh, I will. That's nice. Yeah. I lived four months with the extension in Dublin. Fine. And she was really a fantastic place to work. Yeah. It's supposed to be the most technically advanced building in Europe. There's 400,000 people living there. So I assume there's one or two people that know, probably. Yeah. It's considered like working in Holland or in Europe. Oh, it would work anyway. Yeah? It would. I'm not sure about having a wife to take it, but if I just wait around on the Friday evening, I'm on my way to Holland for six months. And how about remote working from Holland? Yeah. I'm not going into an office to be honest with you, but I do remote working as well. Oh, right. Yeah. I've got some given children, so I just have to bite myself away. Yeah. I have one degree at an office in the UK. Yeah. Why? You're going to love British humour. I lived in the UK for, I don't know, seven months at a time. For the first three months, people weren't taking the piss out of me at work. And then you couldn't figure about the other stupid British humour. Seriously, now you're taking the piss out of me. But then I found out, and then I came back and we tell you, you know, from different perspectives. Yeah. Ah, yeah, cool. All right, so what time should I start? In a minute. In a minute? Yeah. Okay, excellent. How are you doing now? They were probably quite awesome. We should start with them. All right. Cool. Hi. Cool. All right. Welcome, everybody. I shouldn't have the microphone on. Yep, no worries. Let me do this. I know everybody. You should see this. I can't do what I said this. Put it on. Nope. This? Do you want it right now? All right. Well, no. I'm just about to start. All right. Welcome, everybody. My name is Michelle Mabeldi. I'm going to give two talks today. One is about why Drupal needs marketing. And the other one later today is the five benefits of having a local Drupal community being organized as an association. They're a bit of interlink with each other. So I'm going to walk you through this presentation. And this is my firm belief for over the last 12 years. I am co-founder of Wanshu, an agency in the Netherlands. I started the Drupal community there 12 years ago. I'm a marketer by background. But I fell in love with Drupal. And I'm going to be completely honest here. I can't code at all. But I've been a major part of the Drupal community. And I'm very proud to be part of the Drupal Board Association Board. I'm standing here on a personal note, not on a board perspective. So this is my personal vision. I'm sharing with you not a vision from the Drupal Association. All right. Let me walk you through my presentation. When I started with Wanshu, I've also started organizing Drupal CEO events. And also the CEO network. And what we decided to do was to do a Drupal CEO survey. We've done it now for the last two years. And a lot of really cool information came out of it. So in 2017, we had a Drupal CEO survey. A lot of really cool information came out of it. So in 2017, we had 239 respondents, basically ranging from directors, management roles, working at Drupal companies. So yeah, it basically companies spanning from around the globe. So the interesting bit is that we got a lot of interesting results out of it. When you look, there's a geographic difference. 149 people, respondents from Europe. 91 from North America, a few from Asia and South America. And we're going to do this survey again this year. And we hope to see the numbers growing. So when you look at the services, those companies provider we're arranging from, of course, web development. But also support user experience, hosting mobile development. And most of the companies were, of course, digital agencies. But they're also software companies and a few marketing companies. And when we walked through it, some really good figures came out. We're quite proud to see that pipelines were growing, that the project's deal size was growing as well. And the project win rate was very good. But there's also some personal notes where we got out of the Drupal survey, which I'm going to share with you. Drupal will only compete successfully if there's a stronger focus on what the chief marketing officer wants from ACMS, the product. And community is timmy by programmer thinking. Drupal 8 compared to other platforms shows poorly. And that was one of the remarks that we got from it. And for those of you who were here yesterday, Megan from Drupal Association says, OK, we've been focusing for a long time now on programmers, but we also should focus on another person, basically another persona, which is the CMO, and basically what their needs are. And there is a different need. A programmer, yes, of course, they like the program, they like code, but they have not been focusing on what the CMO wants. So let's look at some other comments. The risk of losing momentum is there, unless great UX and update, up to date design gets the focus, WordPress is strong on those matters. This is also something that the Drupal Association board took out of it and says, OK, let's have a focus this year on getting our user experience a lot better. Because that's also something the CMO wants, and the content editor wants it. They increasingly competitive, however, we're seeing Drupal being head-to-head with Sidecore and Adobe. For the last 17 years, we all, as a community, have been working on Drupal and make it better, bigger and stronger. And it was actually Google who said, Drupal is probably one of the most mature open source projects on the market, and we should be very, very proud of that. And yes, we are facing competition from Adobe and from Sidecore, and I'll be going into that later on. So the future is good, and we should be proud of that, because we've all been working very hard on that one. So there's also some challenges ahead of us. OK, so before I go into the marketing bit, let's have a look at the bias journey. The previous presentation was about the bias journey, and as a company we've been focusing on the bias journey as well. So you have a customer journey, people tend to be becoming a customer, and then you should focus on retention and keeping those customers. But before that, there's a whole area in which potential clients are looking for a new CMS, or a new platform, or a new tool that helps them publish their content in a very rich way. So let's have a look at the bias journey. OK, this is a typical example of bias journey. It all starts with awareness, and we can create awareness as a Drupal community with infographic, with article, with viral videos, and a certain general optimization, and get them inspired, so they start learning about what Drupal is and what Drupal can do for their company. This is basically this demand generation. When we go to the second phase, that's the consideration phase. We start considering whether we should go for a site for Adobe, WordPress, or Laravel, or whatever solution. So this is where white papers, and webinars, and e-newsletters, reports, and e-books come in. We can start generating leads. We can do this as a community, but you can do it as an individual company as well. Then this is where you have to make a decision. Of course, we want them to make a decision for Drupal. Then you can organize Drupal camps, get them inspired in-person events, calculators, testimonials, and that kind of stuff. So basically from awareness all the way to decision that's nurturing and applying all the way into making that decision. So there's a lot of models on the internet, and then you can find if you start looking for it. Here it starts. People are strangers to you. There are people out there who are looking for a new CMS. We don't know them. We cannot identify them right now. We can reach them with articles and blog posts, and we can create awareness, and then they become visitors on the website, and you can create case studies and videos, and that will turn into leads, and from leads it will turn into customers, and if they're happy, that's the whole goal. Of course, we can create them, turn them into promoters and ambassadors, and then the cycle's around. Then you have to focus on retention that they will keep using Drupal for the rest of their lives. The Drupal Association has been sending out messages, we want to know who to focus on, because who do you target with what kind of content? That's basically what we call the persona. There are different personas out there, like the general manager and CEO, and he is the most important one. You know why? Because he's the guy who sets the signature. In the end, he decides. I can tell you stories about how we identify the content editor, content manager, marketing director, IT director, and they're all happy, and then suddenly the CEO says, no, I've got another agency I'm befriended with, and I want them to build it. Bama lost the client, lost the pitch. So the CEO, he's the guy who always sets the signature on the road, but you have the IT director who is an influencer, the marketing director, the content manager, the content editor, and there's a lot more to identify. And these personas have specific needs. So we have to tailor our stories to the needs of the different personas. You can do it as an agency, but we can do it as a community as well. And we should actually, because every persona has needs. I want to reach this. They have personal wishes. I have personal ambition from drawing from a content editor to becoming an operational manager. People have personal wishes and needs and stuff, and they have different authorities. They have different challenges within companies. They have different plans. So we need to tailor our stories to the needs in every step of the buyer journey. When you start thinking like this, that's a lot of stories we have to tell. Yes, we do, and that's all about content production. And so where's the challenge? That's basically the question we're talking about today. OK, so who knows the Gardner Magic Quadrant? OK, Gardner. It's an international organization that does a lot of research, paid research, a lot of paid research, but there's a lot of directors and CMOs. This is recorded, isn't it? There's a lot of CMOs, CTOs and CEOs who look at the Magic Quadrant and make their decisions. So when we look out there, we see a couple of familiar names. It's such a corner though we, they're the leaders, and there's Acria. Acria is most of it is Drupal. And this is my personal dream, but it's not possible, unfortunately, because we can't do it as a community. But how cool would it be if an open source CMS system would be up there in the leaderboard? We have to pay a lot of money. That's not possible, unfortunately. But it would be a cool dream. But when you look at the leaders, those are basically the guys who run the big projects. And is this interesting for developers? Yes, it is. Because the big projects have bigger challenges from a programming perspective. I've been telling this to my colleagues all the time. I want bigger clients. This is why we want bigger clients. Well, it's more challenging for you guys, because you can keep making websites for the bakery around the corner, but that's clicking and that's not cool. You want to be inspired and be challenged mentally. So where's the mental challenge? Well, it's up there. That's where the leaders are. Let me have a look at a quote from a current RFP I'm on right now. Within the CMS election, two important themes are central, namely personalizing and automating. Unfortunately, they already have chosen Drupal. Do you just want to clarify the RFP's request for a proposal? Sorry? RFP, RFP. Oh, sorry, request for a proposal. Yes. It's a request for a proposal. There's a large international company that have approached us with an RFP. They want a proposal. They send us a stack of paper about this big and they have chosen Drupal. Yeah. We're there with three Drupal agencies now competing to win the RFP, but they want personalization and they want automating. When personalization comes up, I'm like, okay, this is what Drupal doesn't have yet. We're not good at that. We have AcriaLift. Yes, so we can combine it with AcriaLift, but the Drupal community does not provide tooling to do so. Okay. Several funnels can be set. CMS includes marketing automation. Okay. So we can connect with HubSpot and external tooling. That's all possible. Yeah. But here you see the wishes from the CMO. Can Drupal deliver this out of the box? I can't expect it. Not really. Okay. So there's a challenge. So the next one, you know, Adobe. So I'm taking this presentation from two perspectives. Why Drupal needs marketing from a marketing perspective. Yeah, we have to promote ourselves and from a tooling perspective. So to get things straight. You got a question? I think it's one of the strengths of Drupal that it doesn't provide information and personalization. You can play the cards that have the best of breed solution. True, but out of the box, they want a out-of-the-box solution a lot of times. So there is a need. We don't fulfill yet. And now I'm going to look at Adobe. Okay. So this is Adobe Experience Manager. This is the console management system. And the way they state it is, allows you to create, personalize, manage and optimize online customer experiences. It's all about personalization. And I've been to an Adobe conference. And the things they can do, if you combine all their toolings, it's not just Adobe Experience Manager, but also Experience Cloud and stuff. That's amazing. It is truly amazing. When you look under the hood, because we've been looking under the hood at the code level, not so good. So it's not built as clean and proper as Drupal is. But I can understand why Nike now has chosen, for Adidas, sorry, for Adobe. But I want to, and I see it as a challenge, if we can create more tooling around Drupal, so we can provide and service these clients as well, that Adobe is currently doing. And the way they present themselves is a website. It's really clean. Make delivering great digital experiences look easy. So yeah, content backbone as agile as accessible as it is robust. OK, so have a look at Sidecore. Sidecore enables brands to provide contextual, personalized, relevant experiences that immediately lead to results through every channel and every form of communication. When I'm a CMO, I'm thinking, wow, that's cool. Let's have a chat with them. OK, so this is basically how their website looks like. And they're very proud that they show the Gardner list as well. And this is Drupal. Launch, manage, and skill ambitious digital experiences with the flexibility to build great websites and push beyond the browser proudly for open source. OK. Does this tailor the need from a CMO yet? No. And fortunately yesterday, the DA gave a presentation, Megan says, OK, we have to change. And the way we look at Drupal.org. Because when you look at Drupal.org, you know, is that basically, OK, this is me from a marketeer perspective. You know, and this is a personalized presentation to be held on. OK, so Drupal, I'm a marketeer. I'm finally at Drupal.org. I said, OK, you know, I'm looking for personalization. I can't find it. And OK, so we have critical multiple vulnerabilities in core. OK. And it's available for testing. There's a release for testing. It's not ready yet, isn't it? Is it me being totally blunt and honest here? You know, we're not telling the story the CMO wants to hear. I know I'm blunt. You know, I'm Dutch and Dutch can be blunt. You know, sorry. But that's me from a marketeer perspective looking at Drupal.org. Our famous Drupal.org. Do they play the video? Well, that's another thing. No personal comment on that one. OK, so this is Drupal.com. It's getting better. Yes. Did your experience platform that knows your web content much more built so you can deliver the right content to the right person at the right time? OK, and the right devices. This is a bit like four years ago, you know, what we should have promised four years ago. So we need to change. And Drupal needs marketing in different ways. OK, and now I'm getting even more blunt. OK, let's have a look at local presence. The way local communities present themselves, you know, because there's a lot of developers out there that present themselves, you know, through communities and personal initiatives, which I like, which is great. But I want to basically give some insights on, OK, how to tailor the needs of, you know, a broader range of personas. This is the message I want to tell you. OK, so I had to put this slide in. Please don't blame the messenger because the message could be unpleasant. So don't blame me. This is when I went to Drupal.co.uk. And yeah. So, OK, no comment. This is Germany presenting themselves. This is the Drupal community presenting themselves. This is one of the websites you will land on. But this is another one. I've been giving this presentation in Germany and, you know, the German Drupal community at first was not really happy that I presented it this way. But, you know, it made them click and now they're rethinking the way they're going to present themselves. I've been working on the Dutch community and this is what I like. You know, but it's a new standard for creating great digital experiences for small companies, multinationals and everything in between. Not entirely true anymore. You know, we're not, Drupal is not for smaller companies, but for mid and everything and larger. So this is a template that's now being transferred to Germany. Really cool. You know, we're going to share this template in Germany so we have a broader way of providing ourselves. In Spain they like to present camps, you know, not talking about what Drupal can do for you. This is France, you know. So also community focus, talking about events, not about what Drupal can do for you. This is Italy. This is, yeah, no comment. So we need a call for action, guys. This is basically what I wanted to share with you. If we want to attract new developers, you know, if we want to attract major clients, you know, to do the really exciting work, we have to change our message. We have to change the way we look at our local presence. So I'm trying to kick off a new initiative, a few new initiatives here. The second presentation later today will be about that as well, going more in depth into the community bit. But this is the first one. I'm not a techie, so I have no idea what technology has to be, what the technical perspective has to be involved. But let's start a personalisation initiative. Let's do so. So we can actually focus on the CMO and their specific needs. Otherwise, we will lose the battle. Okay, and why do I say this? There are now cloud CMSs on the rise, which have personalisation stuff already in them. All you have to do is create a really nice, cool front-end-book react, and you use the cloud CMS, and you have all your personalisation tooling in it, and you're done. So why should we do Drupal? Because we love Drupal, and we want to work with Drupal, but there's no personalisation. So let's see, I'm not a coder, so I don't know how to kick it off, but let's see how we can start kicking off a personalisation project. Have you got a quick addition? Okay. Basically, when I come onto a website, I am not a registered user. I'm an anonymous user. I can identify the person with cookies and stuff, and then when I leave the website, I can track the person with the cookie, and I can do some ads targeting, you know, Facebook targeting, or lots of targeting possibilities. And then I can inspire the person, and then when he comes back on the website, I can show other content. So basically, specifically personalised content for his specific needs, because we know we've been tracking that person through his bias journey. So, yeah, so it will be cool to create an open-source project on this one. I don't know how, but if somebody has an idea, let's start a discussion. Okay, let's form local associations in every single country. This is what my next presentation will be about. I won't go into depth too much unless I will give my presentation. So, if you see that in France, in Spain, in Italy, in Germany, everybody is telling a different story with a different website, with different templates. There's no uniformity in the way we present ourselves. And when I start googling, you know, I want to have one message to be delivered across all channels. So, and then we have to start targeting and focusing on the different personas. Could be finance, HR, could be the CMO, the CTO developers. Developers, developers, developers, yes, we need developers. So, yes, we tailor, basically, our content. And the interesting bit is that we've been sharing code all over the world. But we haven't been sharing, basically, templates and marketing material in the way we present ourselves across the globe. So, we're now sharing the Dutch template to Germany. But, you know, I don't know, if we can share that also with France and Italy, and then we have the same website all over, and we start pitching in and start making that website better, and then, for example, in France, somebody writes a really cool article for the CMO. All we have to do is translate it in the Netherlands and Germany, et cetera. We have a brilliant way and we can, you know, draw our market share and draw the community. So, let's start sharing content and share our marketing initiatives. And that will lead to uniformity in presence and basically the promotion of Drupal. So, in the Netherlands, we have a standardized website. We organized the Splash Awards. I don't know if you've heard about the Splash Awards. It's an award show for the best Drupal projects in a country, and it's awesome, I can tell you that. And it's a hilarious evening. Clients will come in to join the Splash Awards and see if they've won a prize. And they all send out press releases and put it in their newsletters. I can tell you a story about... We won a Splash Awards for work we've done with Drupal for DHL, parcel in the Beninox. You know, we're really proud that we were the only country actually in the world that didn't run on Adobe because DHL globally was working on Adobe. So, we went in Drupal. So, we created a new website, a new way of thinking, a new way of designing. You know, actually focusing on B2B, business to business and business to consumer. And we won an award with that, a Splash Awards. Yeah, we organized it ourselves, yeah, and we had an independent jury looking at all the projects coming in, and we won an award, so we're really cool. And we got into the global newsletter of DHL, and suddenly England says, I want a website like that, and Spain says, I want that website. And suddenly all over Europe, we're like, yeah, we want a website like that. And the funny thing is, is that we are now working on a global standardized look and feel of the websites and the new websites that will be built in Drupal as well. So, this is really cool. And how did that happen? It goes on a Splash Award. So, this can, and it's cool to have an award as well. I can tell you that. All right. This is what I said already. Okay, let me have a look. Okay, so we organized, Splash Awards, we do training days. We promote tech talks, promotion of camps, and other events. And we can professionalize the Drupal presence in each market. So, yeah, the Dutch Drupal Association are sharing the website with the German Drupal Business Eval. And let's start a discussion on this one, on how we can roll out a standardized way of promoting and marketing ourselves throughout Europe. Okay, and this is what I said already. Yeah, we have to tailor the message to the need of personas and serve them whilst in the buyer's journey. And, yeah, content should be globally amongst local associations and tailored to countries' needs. There's no way we can deliver one message which is not tailored locally. You know, we have over, how many countries we have in Europe? 40 or something? A lot. They all have specific needs. So, yeah, definitely you should tailor it. But we can do so if every country has a local association. Yeah, and I'm going to tell you in my next presentation what the benefits are of having a local association. So, basically going back, this is my conclusion. Drupal needs marketing from two perspectives. One from a technology perspective, but also from the way we present ourselves as a community. And, yes, we've been focusing on developers, which is good. You know, we're one of the biggest communities in the world. We're very much mature now. But there's a new range of personas we have to focus on. And I would like to challenge you all to see how we can set up local associations and tailor our communication to the specific needs of both those personas. Thank you very much. Any questions? And sort of leading the community over there. Cool. So we have UNC students, we arrived, present Drupal with them, and it's a lot of fun convincing things for Drupal. Cool. Hard to do it at the same time. Yeah. So, recently, White House has flown away from Drupal. Yeah, with it? It has been a sort of nightmare for Drupal that is right. It's hard to answer the question now. Because that was the first thing I would present, that the human White House is in Drupal. So the only answer I know of is that now their website is less functional. So how to defend this question, especially where a country, where work place is really much in? Maybe I should turn off my microphone now because I can make a political statement. There's a new guy in the White House. I'll leave it to that. Okay. So the second thing is that look at other companies, like Pfizer, for example. Their global stack is built with Drupal. That's even more impressive than the White House. Yes, the White House being attacked, but every major company gets attacked anyway. So the thing is from a security perspective, the White House was really cool. Was it that complex? I think there are more complex projects in the world that run on Drupal. So when we look at the showcases we have, White House is one of a million, and there are, to my believe, better projects to convince the people you're talking to. Does that answer your question? Yes, it is. We talk about the importance of maintaining the developer community, and there's a lot of energy behind that. What you're saying is there needs to be a binary divide between that and marketeers, right? We have to put it on top. My question is, doesn't the developer base grow organically to begin with? Shouldn't there be all throttles going towards the uncharted territory? How does that work? To my believe, we definitely should not put all throttles on the CMO. Definitely not, because if you... You can't win right in that space, or you're only in that direction. Of course you can't win if you do if you're good. It's not about winning, it's about growing. And yes, we should focus and still focus on growing the developer community as well. Yes, there are new faces here, but I see also a lot of familiar faces. We should be aware that we should not be aging as a community, so we need new developers coming in. Why? Because they bring in new ideas. I have quite a few young hipster developers who bring in new energy. At first, they were like, OK, I want to work with React, and I want to work with Angular and all the... And then there's Cloud CMSs, and yes, it's so cool and it's hipster and stuff. And then we started looking at, OK, but hey, you can combine React with Drupal. And then I was getting interested, hey, it is a robust... Yeah, not this clunky CMS or Cloud CMS, which is not within the GDPR ruling and stuff, et cetera. No, this is kind of cool, so we basically taught them that working with Drupal in combination with new technology is very cool. Do we do this as a community already? Not yet. So if we can focus and tailor that story towards the new developers who are coming fresh out of high school or university, yeah, that's a challenge for us as well. My business is in the process of rebranding. And I guess my question is how can we as individual people and businesses change our message to fit in with the new initiative for the community? So that's... OK, this is an interesting question. I don't know your company. I don't know what is it you want to achieve. But if you start looking at the buyer's journey or the customer journey, as they say it, then you start looking at the specific needs of your potential customers. I don't know what your target audience is. Let's say your target audience is companies within the logistics area like DHL, Marsk, the bigger freight shipping companies. You should identify the needs of the CMO of DHL or Marsk or whatever. And then you start looking, OK, how am I going to present myself? One suggestion, though, don't focus on one vertical. Focus on more because if the economy hits one vertical, your company gets hit. So broaden your horizon. If you want to talk about it later on, just let me know. Cool. So you were talking about sharing, getting a more consistent message out and sharing stuff. And that means you need some sort of overview, governance. And is that something that you think the Drupal Association would do? Given that they would kind of know what others are doing because it's otherwise pretty difficult to coordinate. Or is it something like the Drupal Business Alliance? How would they fit into that? Well, the good thing is that I'm part of the Drupal Association Board now and I'm in the governance committee. So I'm bringing in this message. I've just told them. I don't know if they're going to adopt it because it's my personal vision. I hope they will. So what they can do is they can orchestrate it. You know, they are like... The Drupal Company is basically the band and the association is orchestrating it. They can't create all the material themselves now. So my belief, I think, for example, the way we do it in Europe now is that Holland starts sharing with Germany and Germany is already sharing the way they organize the special works with Denmark. So we started sharing already. Co-ordinating the same message has something I think the Drupal Association should do. We are already talking about ambitious projects from the Drupal Association. So how can we basically share this message across the globe? I don't think... They don't need to be responsible for all the content, but say in the UK we come up with some really good messaging aimed at CMOs and all the rest of that. And if we want to share that, how do we do that? The same we share code. We're just going to cope with distributing. Well, I think we should... I'm not sure yet, but I think the way we share code we'd be putting on Drupal.org and then we start sharing. So if we have maybe a separate section on Drupal.org in which we can share our ideas on this subject, it's open for everyone to grab. And that would be interesting. Yeah, so maybe one way of doing it. I mean, I'm just trying to give a real practical way of making it happen. I'm part of the board now for a couple of weeks, so I'm relatively new. But this is one of the ways. And I think Drupal.org should be in the central place, which is anyway very willing to put that. So there's one point that you mentioned what's missing on this variety of sites is call to action. And there's one key problem that I'm aware of that this is sometimes at a big stage in some local communities. If you were to do call to action, what would it be? And of course after that call to action there's a commercial interest. Can you talk a bit more about how you would see this working in local community that's not one company? It's very easy. It calls one of their sales people. Who gets input in touch when someone goes to Drupal.co.uk? Yeah, that's a question we had. Okay, I'm going to give away my next talk. I'm going to ask you a question. Please join my next talk anyway. What we did in the Netherlands, I started the Dutch Drupal Business Foundation. At the time the local foundation was sleeping while we were organizing a camp called the Drupal Jam, but not doing marketing at the time. So we created the Dutch Drupal Business Foundation and we had ruling. So what we're going to do is we create a website and every participant who was paying money to the association, that money was used for visiting events and promoting Drupal, so had Drupal booth. Really cool. Suddenly we were next to Adobe and Cycora and they were looking at how can you guys be here? You're open source. But we united as a community. Oh wow, that's scary. Yeah it was for them. We handed out flyers. So we talked about what Drupal was and it was really cool. And then we handed out a flyer and all logos were on it. So we had to randomize all the logos, randomize them and then and they were on the flyer. So we handed out a flyer. No business cards were given away. I was not allowed when I was standing on the ground, I was not allowed so that I was from one shoe. No, I was representing Drupal at the time. We were very strict on that. If other companies would visit the booth, they were not allowed to hang around with their own business cards. It was basically solely growing the awareness around Drupal and it was not growing your business. Because business would come anyway. If you grow the pie, business will come to you anyway. That's the whole idea and that's how we did it. So if you have a call to action, one of the call to action could be download a white paper about Drupal and this is the marketplace and please find your vendor over there. That could be a white paper. What I'm thinking is like if you're comparing this to the kind of experience that you have for example with Adobe addresses in the example where you go there and then you put your email address and then there's the whole personalization the kind of things that flyers tend to expect. And that's the work like having the seller be proactive and that's something that can be a bit difficult. I don't know if there are agency owners here. You can put this on your own website. You have your tailor-made talk and you create your own phone. Of course on Drupal.org we cannot. Adobe is working with vendors themselves. So they have a wide range of vendors they're working with. So yes, they're generating leads for those vendors. It could be a model we can look into from a Drupal satiate perspective but it's getting on the commercial side and I'm like I don't want to go into that area. Because I don't want a situation where those who pay the most get the most leads. No, this is not open source. There's no way I will vote for that. But basically directing them to a marketplace and those who share the most code etc. are on top. So then you get a model which is to my belief fair. So it should be a fair model for all of us. You see vendors that support Drupal participating in this. Not agencies, not images users but vendors on the outside that support Drupal. That would be awesome. Is there a call to action for the vendors you would say? Well there is a last night we organised the agency leader dinner and I was walking home had a bit of too much wine in my body and you get creative walking in the snow in London. I came up with the idea there's two ways we can approach it. We can also ask if the larger clients like a fighter etc. if they want personalisation let's chip in sponsoring X amount of money. But then we have to write out an RFP which agency is getting the deal to write and to write the code for the personalisation tool. Or it should be a shared or a combined experience. This was late at night with a couple of wines in my head. But this is something we should look into. I think that the vendors the actual end users like the larger companies if they can chip in fighter have been donating X amounts of hours and money and dollars already in Drupal which is fantastic. But if we can create an initiative global initiative in terms of personalisation yeah definitely awesome. So that would be your recommendation to pick a topic so we can sponsor events which would be code and those things but you're saying maybe a vendor to take on a position to drive it. Oh yeah, if this happens wow that would be awesome. Very awesome. It could serve the global community big time. Well the community serves us as well. It's like Brian was talking about this morning how you find a way to increase your way to do that. And just curious if you've had thoughts around that. Cool. When we say Drupal is huge for huge websites, right? Promoting Drupal. There's always a question asked of me that is how long budget wise, right? So do you know for some Drupal websites which are top level budget wise? I know one which is a Canada city website. There is a city website in Canada and it's one million dollar site. So promoting Drupal and then mentioning budget of that particular website is a key also. Do you know such websites? Well I've no idea but I know Ffizer is running all their websites on Drupal and I think that's a bit more than a million plus they've invested. I think but I'm not aware of the budgets of the big companies but I know there's some global companies that use Drupal. I I never used that argument for convincing my clients. I can tell you a story on how I convinced one client it was a logistics company and they wanted a new website and we got the pitch brief and stuff and I was looking at it and we had to deliver an offer on Friday and it was Wednesday. It's like okay you know we got this piece of paper here and I just had to call the client and he says okay could you please tell me what the business case is behind the website and the general answer when I asked that question is always uh uh so it was a business case. It says what do you mean by business case? Well you're investing X amount of money for return on investment. He said never thought about it can you help me if I can. So I came up with the idea. I knew I imagined that this logistics company would get in a lot of telephone calls you know because of people where's my package and what time will be delivered etc. So I imagine they had a thousand calls each day. So what it was was that they integrated the website that could lower those calls by a 10%. So 100 calls less each day. So I'm aware of what happens within call centers and the average call cost is between 6 and 8 euros. So 100 calls a day less would save them and I was making 800 euros a day times 7 times 52 and I made them an offer for a website which was costing 50,000 euros. You can present this to your management and he said damn you're good. He says the one thing is it's not 8 euros it's 6 euros per call and maybe if we can create a website with an FAQ on it and serving all the needs of those callers we can lower it even more. I got the deal. So I'm not talking about numbers now I'm talking about the business case. This is interesting. So when you look at a request for proposal and when you start looking at a business case how can we make money with this investment? It's a different approach. But that can be interesting. Cool. Any more questions? I'm a copywriter. I don't know how to code and I also do marketing here. So the thing is I always try to explain to my customers that we need to showcase the benefits of the business and maybe that would be something that Drupal should do. Show the benefits not the features because we are showing the features which is great for developers. We have a great community and all but we're not showing how the world or how the company could benefit from Drupal. In our personal presentation we give to our clients we have showcases.