 It is the top of the hour. So let's begin. Let me welcome everybody. Let me welcome you to the future trends forum I'm very glad to see you here today. My name is Brian Alexander. I'm the forums creator I'm the host and chief catator, and I'll be your guide to the next hour of conversation Now before we can start that conversation Let me introduce the program and just on a meta note for those of you who have been to the future trends forum before These introductions are a bit substantial Would you be interested in me cutting them down? That is maybe pointing to an extra video or having the introductions happen before the top of the hour Just let me know in the chat or or elsewhere. I'm absolutely delighted to welcome rebecca pope roark She is a really really important person in american higher education for my money She is a scholar a tenured faculty member who now also runs a consulting enterprise called agile faculty Or she tries to basically help faculty survive and thrive in this increasingly chaotic 21st century Um, so we're really glad to have her here so she can talk to us about the question of how to balance The stresses demands pressures opportunities of academic life with the rest of our lives Greetings professor pope roark Hi, how are you brian? Thanks for having me great to have you rebecca. Welcome. Where are you there? Are you really in atlanta right now? Yes. I am well technically i'm in smirna, but pretty much atlanta. Yes Georgia tech is in the middle of atlanta. Well, that's right. That's right. Well, i'm i'm glad you're safe and sound I mean you're you're in a hot zone right now. So please please take care Thank you Um, I i'm i know that in academia we can we can burn up hours with introductions and Throw clearing and and so i like to cut to the chase and ask a question that's uh, I think More revelatory, uh, which is to ask for the next say Academic year, you know the next eight months or so What are you going to be spending most of your time working on and thinking about? Um, I think like a lot of us um I'm now at the center for teaching and learning at george attack after 12 years on the faculty at elon university And like most of us we're preparing for the fall which our students are arriving classes start on monday So we've been working all summer to make sure that our faculty feel supported and somewhat ready to get started with the fall Given the great uncertainty and health concerns. Um and other concerns that are really Traumatizing all of us to a certain extent, right? So how do we um, how do we help our faculty? Share the humanity with their students and be accepting of the humanity Of of themselves as well and share that with their students So that's what i'm doing in my typical day job On the side, uh, the thing that i'll be spending most of my My time in on is i'm currently writing a book called professor burnout The book is kind of a Hybrid of genres which has been really interesting to write so it's part my memoir of going through burnout and coming through that It has stories narratives from other folks who have been through burnout in higher education as well as advice chapters from faculty developers coaches psychologists and a bunch of reflection activities and ways that you can think about Maybe how you might move through burnout or how you might be able to avoid it As a faculty member So that and then i'm also running a small group coaching program called professor burnout A six-week program as well for women academics. So that's pretty much how i'm spending my time these days This is enough for 10 people and Good luck with uh with the newest book and good luck with that group Which is widely needed and good luck supporting all these faculty who are going through an incredibly challenging chaotic time. Yes thank you Well, we we invited you here to um, uh talk about the uh balance between academic life and and I know you work with faculty, but I'd like to if we could include also Staff and maybe students as part of that as well So if I could ask before covid hit You know before the virus came roaring out of hubei province what What would you tell people about what was your advice then about how to balance these things and stay sane? um Larger, I think it was my advice would have been to recognize the culture that's driving many of us in certain ways We faculty especially tend to be a specific group of people who all come together because of similar Interests and identities So it can get really easy to get caught up in the higher ed rat race of constant competition really with each other It's constantly feeling like you have to prove your prove your worth to jump to the next level. Whatever that level might be Um comparing yourself to the people around you at your institution and your discipline There's always someone who's going to be doing more than you are How do you how you kind of avoid that while also avoiding the compassion fatigue of putting so much of yourself into the work And into working with your students as well. So my advice always is to To step back a little bit and to look at that more holistically Talk to someone who isn't in higher education about kind of the experience that you're having Whether that's a counselor or or a faculty member. I talk to my husband about it all the time In ways that help me get some perspective on what's going on. So I think it is being very aware that While an amazing place with so much potential to impact lives the higher ed is It is also a culture that we need to be aware of and we need to understand the way it pushes us in certain directions And decide if where we want to put our boundaries, right? Where are your boundaries and I don't necessarily think there's a there's a work slash life in this because academic work can really take over your life If you let it and that's what happened to me But so I think Honestly, I think it's about boundaries and figuring out how to be content With what you're doing right now rather than that constant competition and academic capitalism that seems to drive us Wow Okay, well, that's that's a whole I can see why you do this professionally that That was a small book. You just you just told me right there Um with many many chapters. Um I can see that especially with the cultural competition is so ferocious all over the place I mean very institution institution a few in the field, but uh, but it's so it's so deep and it really can swallow everything up Um, that's a that's a very very good point Well, you have all of that very sane advice And then February 2020 happened and then march Now, what can you tell us? How can we keep sane under uh under the virus? Um, I think my um my mantra at this point is it's okay to not to not be okay um and to You know, I hate to call it a silver lining But one of the things that I've seen coming out of our faculty and that I've seen coming out on on social media is Is a level of humanity and vulnerability that faculty members and students may have not necessarily shared with each other in the past Because we all share this context together. We all share this This traumatic event that this stress that's unrelenting stress from the pandemic And the the racial injustices and the rightful protesting of those over the summer So we're there's a constant onslaught of the stress right now It's okay to not be okay It's okay not to write anything Right, you are not on vacation And I know that fall's coming up anyway, but over the summer I've been telling people you're not on vacation. I heard someone say once that You're not working from home. You're working from the safety of your home in a global crisis That's a very different way of thinking about where you are and what you're doing Um, and you know, there are some folks who have been very prolific over the summer and that's awesome Right, if that's the way that that you deal and that you're you know, you're working through that's awesome But for those of you who aren't Good for you for doing what you need to keep yourself sane And it's also I think it's also a matter of being willing to acknowledge that humanity Right, we are people who come with our whole selves into the workplace Regardless of maybe the identity that we crafted for ourselves on our campus We are all human beings and we're interacting with each other with a level of vulnerability that we may not have in the past Um, and we're also we're also interacting with our students or we we are going to be interacting with them more and more Over the fall as we all traverse the uncertainty of of what might happen with the semester There's so much uncertainty. There's fear. There's anxiety, right? So so how do we address those and not just not just whitewash over them, right? This is these are important mental health issues in addition to the physical health issues that we're all concerned about So being able to talk to someone That's a peer or a colleague being able to just kind of open up with your students and say This is weird. I you know, I'm as concerned as you are. Let's do this together and see what we can accomplish together I think students are really looking for that humanity from us As we're going to be getting more of their humanity in ways that we haven't in the past And we're going to have to learn we're going to have to learn as well to to support our students in that But also to balance that so we don't end up so far over into compassion fatigue that we can't support each other anymore So, you know, we've got some boundary issues there again Well, compassion fatigue is a real thing That is this reciprocal nature of exchanging our our humanity and our vulnerability I have some questions, but I want to encourage everybody to ask their questions And we already have a couple that have just come in. So let me just put a few of these up One is from Raj Devis second on from Sunil Westbury who says these endless work days will leave emotional remnants What advice did your guest have? I live at work now. Is this good for my employer? I'm gonna take the first two thirds of that maybe leave the employer the employer piece off. I'll put it back up on the screen Okay, yeah Honestly, I think it actually it comes down to boundaries again and it comes down to rituals in a way, right? So this is the space where I work when I walk into this space I'm at work when I leave this space. I'm leaving work Um, I know folks who will actually like walk out the door of their home and walk around the block And then come back in to kind of mark that that change over That's a good idea Right, and I think I think it's important to if you can have a zone where you work So that that's where the work happens so that you don't track it all over your home If that's possible, um, and I know there's a lot of privilege associated with that having a one space then Having enough space maybe to separate yourself from other family members if that's that's an option for you There there is definitely a certain level of privilege associated with that Um, but I think it's you know, it's that the advice you get in college to not work on your bed You should sleep in your bed and work at your desk I never got that advice Yeah, so I've been kind of thinking about it like that. Where can you place actual physical boundaries? Um to where you work and where you don't work and then also What rituals can you use to mark the day so that you can transition in and out of that work Back into your home as your home not as your workspace Well, that's a great answer. Um and and Raj. Thank you for that question But Raj also asked and a question. Is this good for my employer? And that's an interesting question Yeah, I don't know if I want to touch that one with a 10 foot pole Well, could you could you say that I mean faculty that are less manic that are less stressed that are less terrified become Better employees overall Yeah, absolutely. Um, I think there is a lot of uncertainty and I'm hearing things from from different institutions all over the country about Faculty maybe not necessarily knowing what they are able to do or how much control they have over their classroom If they're supposed to be meeting face to face or socially distancing If they are quote unquote allowed to to run their classes fully remotely as a personal choice and there's a lot of Politicians the wrong word, but there's a lot of layers to those decisions I Friends who have gone back into the classroom already are saying how much their students really want to be there and they're excited to be there But two hours of class just wipes my friend faculty my faculty member friends out, right? It's it's exhausting To teach through a mask, right to try to maintain the things that you you would usually those relationships that you would build with their students The ability to read the room which is gone It's gone in face to face as well as it is I know folks are are kind of commenting on that. It's difficult to read the room in a remote class Online if everybody's wearing masks, that's difficult as well so I think that if you have a good setup and your employer is supportive and you care about your own health and you care about your student's health Yes, you are going to be a better employee But I think for me at this point, I want focus. I would like for people to just focus on being a good human being A good human being taking care of each other Thank you. Thank you. Again, Raj. Thank you for the full question in in chat David drake who I love to ask if he's a science fiction writer He says there's been a little study showing that if you actually try to do less You end up producing more meaningful work So rest he advises take care of your physical emotional state. Yeah I've got to figure out how to do that myself. But there are um, there are other questions And I want to make sure everyone else gets to gets to ask those Um, this is one that comes from charles finley at northeastern and charles asks you use the term academic capitalism Can you expand on how that manifests? Sure, and this is a term that I only came across maybe a year ago From a webinar and if you think about the way that Academics think about their time, right? It's very common for us to say i'm wasting my time. I should be writing right now, right? I should be writing is a meme at this point We should always be writing if we're not writing. We feel guilty if we're not grading we feel guilty There's this sense that we are Time is money and we're wasting it or time is capital where we could be producing something Rather than really thinking about well, do I want to produce something right now? You know, is there something that I want to say or do I feel like I just have to do this? I have to take on more I have to spend every minute that I have to advance my career up through the economic chain, right? Which is in a lot of ways is just our hierarchical chain Um, if you're tenure track up that path if there are other paths that you're on that you're kind of striving for there's a really there's a good database of or a backlog of sources on economic capitalism and I can share some of the The bibliography I've been building with Brian and possibly share later But it's definitely not a term that I came up with but I think it really It encapsulates the way I always felt guilty if I wasn't doing something related to work Right. I couldn't relax because I should be writing There was that constant guilt and shame honestly for not feeling like I could do anything right now And I think the folks who especially now have been earlier in the pandemic who were Kind of really upset that they couldn't write or they couldn't be productive during that time That's a shame. That's driven not by us as individuals but by a culture that values are worth as an academic based on how much productivity we How much how per how productive that we are Right, and I mean if that's not capitalism, I'm not sure what is right. So are we Are we are we willing to be cogs in that machine still? You know and the machine is changing who knows what's going to happen When we eventually come out of this so this might be an opportunity for us to really take a hard look at that Any opportunity costs there? if you Thank you for saying that The chat they just had a string of comments of people talking about guilt and I also just shared a book from My publisher johns hopkins university press called academic capitalism in the new economy Yeah, by shayla slaughter and my friend gary rhodes And gary was actually a guest on the program before So we'd be I'd definitely point to that And greg also adds that attention spans sufferers in trauma Yes, absolutely Well, thank you. I'm picking on greg in part because today is his birthday. And so we should all say Thank you Coming on the forum for that, but greg had a a question A very practical question Which is we expect faculty to be the primary contact with students also experiencing trauma What advice do you have for those instructors who may not be trained as therapists? Yeah, thanks greg for that and professor burnout is actually under contract with johns hopkins and greg. So thank you very much for your continued support greg I think a lot of it has to come down to you recognizing that you are not a trained counselor For example, I am not a mental health professional. I am a person who has gone through burnout I am a faculty member who's who's kind of lived through the culture and has made some decisions about how I I'm going to live in that culture I've got some coaching training under my belt But my goal is just to kind of normalize talking about some of these issues rather than to help people solve Them, you know, we can direct them in certain ways and I think that's the same with our students We are not counselors and I think I don't think a lot of our students want us to be counselors I think a lot of them just want to feel heard They want to feel validated that it's okay to be scared right now That it's okay to maybe not do your best on a test because something happened Or other ways like that where where they do need to be vulnerable They need to feel heard and they need to feel not judged right now So once we can achieve that With our students and be able to listen to them in that way Then we can direct them potentially to the right person where they might find that counseling or they might find the support that they need And that could be anything from, you know A peer group of students who meets socially distant or virtually to talk about these kinds of things Or it could be counseling, right? You know depending on what that spectrum is we can present our students with the options once we've listened to them And then they are technically adults. So then they would have to Do what they would like with that with that and then we also most institutions mine I know we were just recently talking about this You know have excellent referral systems, right? If you're worried about a student refer them to you know student life Or student affairs and those offices That's what they're there for to support those students and to make sure that they're okay And they're trained to do that in ways that most faculty members are not So tap the network because everyone at your institution wants to help your students Well, Greg, thank you for that question. He also publishes a really good book on On mental health counseling and higher education But I have to ask to come back to the institutional level As part of this What do you see is happening in terms of campus mental health services? Given the demand to skyrocketing also skyrocketing our financial problems for institutions But but Okay, well ask that question first That's a huge issue On on one hand, I think we were already starting to scale up our mental health care for our students And the last couple of years well-being has become A huge topic. How do we make sure that we build learning environments where students can learn? Where they feel comfortable learning where they feel challenged, but not overwhelmed and anxious that can lead to negative mental health outcomes So I think on on the average we were ramping those up anyway And at this point with all of the concern and all of the uncertainty I think many of us may be taking on more of those listener roles that we have in the past and then I think we're just it's one of those things where we're all just gonna I think have to pitch in or You know support our student services as much as we can so that our students get the help that we can I wish there was a good answer for that question Sure. I definitely have not seen a consistent response across institutions Right now, um, but I you know, I think I think luckily some of those those initiatives were already ramping up So maybe some systems are in are better in place now To leverage different tools that may not be kind of one-on-one counseling care But have a have a much bigger suite of tools that we can offer students. Um, even in this context Well, thank you. That's a that's a great answer for my very pokey institutional question And now I'm gonna make it worse and then I'm gonna go get out of the way Which is um And a few people have been talking about this in chat including uh, louisa saladino cool. Um, who Was it? Well, should we you ask us not to judge students as much? Um, so louisa and tom hams both said we should have fewer tests Um, and I think I think by test. I think they also mean other formal assessments that have a great attached tone with stress Um, do you think that's a good idea? Do you think we'll see that? Um, I know that's what we're recommending um, very much so that um, what makes sense in having maybe three exams Tech for example is an engineering school And that's pretty traditional in those fields that maybe the courses evaluations are you know two midterms in a final exam Right, and that's the way that that's traditionally done There are so many other issues Associated with our context now that problematized that anxiety is absolutely one of them Um, and then there's also there's student issues that we never had to think about before right The students did not sign up to up for an online program Right, typically when you sign up for an online program you when paying tuition You're saying I have stable internet access. I have the right computer equipment So I can succeed in this program with with the technologies that I have that's not true of every student You know we I know that our library has been loaning out and sending students tablets and notebooks There are stories of students who are sitting outside of starbucks trying to get wi-fi access And we also have We also have international students who could be halfway around the world So if you're trying to give a stinkerness test at 1 p.m. Atlanta time That could be 1 a.m. In china If the students halfway around the world and you know, honestly We've been talking about the fact that you know if if one of our students is in rural georgia Just trying to find stable internet access could be a challenge um, so Definitely are yeah, we are suggesting lower stakes as much as possible And those can be scaffolded really easily to get to some sort of final product or some way that that Allow students to demonstrate their mastery of the content We're just doing it over time in ways that we might not have before right that there's not one or the other That's better and I personally I think the research shows that when students do have lower stakes formative assessments moving toward a larger Summative assessment they will do better Because they have opportunities, you know if you have a Three test scheme like that and you average the grades at the end of the semester You can have a student on that first exam who does terribly But they they work really hard and they get you know, they they learn it It could just clicks one time But their grade is then damaged because they didn't get it at first Right, right So if you get a really low grade on that first one and then the other two are high You're still going to end up with a middling grade, which isn't necessarily Fair to that students if you want to call it fair it also doesn't show what they know So they have the opportunity to play a little bit more experiment a little bit more With lower stakes assessments and to take some risks in way that they're not going to as they're preparing for large scale exams And I think that that goes regardless of whether you're doing traditional face-to-face or online remote emergency that right now Thank you. That's that's a really really good answer. Um, you've triggered a whole like barrage of conversation on the chat Out of control everything Lisa durf telling us that Panera has better wi-fi than starbucks no You uh, david hul who says that he employs formative testing through presentations group projects and written assignments and stays away from summative assignments Sarah sangorio cheers for scaffolding Roxanne riskin is just on fire. She shared with us a free online class on the psychological first aid which looks good sharing hot spots and uh, we have some recommendations for other books including, uh, cal newport's uh, And then sarah added to this more. My gosh, this is just great The knowledge factory based on the economics And strongly recommends this. Yeah, I actually taught that in our first year writing class. Um, 20 years ago Did it go over well? Yeah, it was a business themes first year writing class. So so we talked about that a lot It was I forgot all about that book. Thanks for the reminder. Well, thank you sarah sarah's wonderful And we have we have more questions those of you who are cutting loose in the chat Again, if you want just uh, you know, either hit the cute the question button so we can fling it up on stage Or join us with video. You can see that we're pretty nice pretty nice we had the Another question for Roxanne which goes back a little bit And this is about your group for women Is there a group of male professors and also any well-being sessions resources or practices at no cost available for staff and faculty? Uh, wow, um I am not aware of a group for male faculty specifically related to burnout You know, and there are lots of coaching programs Offered by folks who specialize in coaching academics You know, and I think we might traditionally think of those coaches more as writing coaches or dissertation coaches But as coaching field deep ends and you know has more accountability to licensing and things like that People are going much deeper with one-on-one coaching group coaching in different ways I just I decided to limit my particular group to Women just because I had a I had a client that I was talking to and she really wanted to do it But she was worried that a man in the group Might cause her to hold back when she really needed to kind of share some emotions with people Um, and so that's why I chose to do it. That was her Perspective on that and I think it worked really well. Um, that doesn't mean we can't create them for male faculty Right. I mean that that's just a different set of how we approach I think the issues of burnout and well-being Um, I'm gonna name check Brené Brown once and not, you know, too much But I mean, you know, if you're if you're familiar with her work on vulnerability She's only recently in and and maybe the last five or six years started looking at male vulnerability Um, and and what that looks like and and why Why male figures may not feel like they have the same Bandwidth to be vulnerable in relationship to each other let alone to the women in their lives So I think that's probably a different set of skills in terms of what's available free I would probably have to think about that. I would think I would check in and see what's available with different institutions with their employee I forget what you call them the EMP years or the the employee assistance programs the EAPs Check and see what's available there. I know that at my previous institution They had started partnering with the local hospital and they were starting to have some some sessions about stress and overload and burnout For faculty and staff. So, you know, maybe some of those partnerships Community partnerships could be viable options. Um, if your community connected at your institution But off the top of my head, I feel like I kind of see things coming and whizzing past Because I follow certain people on social media and I kind of know where to look But I'm not sure how far those those messages are reaching outside of that little cohort. I think that's a great question That's a great question. Thank you Roxanne a long time long time friend of the program And that's a really really good answer And friends if you want if this is something that we should do a follow-up session on just let me know We also I just threw this in the chat One topic that we look at from time to time is gaming on games for education And a wonderful grad student and Kate Kirby wrote a couple of Games that explore what it would be like to teach this fall. They're faced with And they're they're very very moving. Um, and uh, they're not they're not light-hearted. Um, she's uh, I'm impressed for her doing that. Um, yeah We have more questions just piling up rebecca. I see why why agile faculty is so much in demand And this goes back to a couple see we've these go back to a couple of your other points Here's one from uh, this is from Todd Russell who wants to know what you think of the idea of contract grading I know there's some interest from some in higher ed Yeah, there's a there's a good cohort of people who are doing that, especially if you're doing team-based learning Um in our context, I have done contract grading um as a faculty member um, and I appreciated it because it was um It wasn't less grading but the the um the criteria and the heuristics were a little more concrete Right because you're kind of looking at You're trying to meet certain standards But it might be in terms of quantity and then getting feedback and revising and things like that So I've appreciated it in terms of it being formative in many ways students can have different opportunities to continue to work On certain assignments or problem sets or whatever that was. Um, it gives them the opportunity to To take some risks and play because it's not that kind of one and you're done um I found just that my personal experience the students were confused And Yes, the the the students didn't understand Why they weren't necessarily just getting a letter grade or a number grade over time So it takes them It takes them a Inculturation for the students to understand what you're doing and why you're doing It you know, I had to explain it to the students repeatedly When they were confused and that was fine. It was it was different than what they were used to They're used to kind of shooting for a grade or getting what is quote unquote given to them Whatever it is that they earn So I I like contract grading. It is a completely different way kind of a thinking about your course Um, so I don't necessarily think it's something that you jump into without Maybe testing the waters maybe like on one assignment or something like that Or a course that you have taught 100 times and are very comfortable with and you can play with it in that way So that you can kind of pivot back if you need to But I think it's one of those things that has so much potential and I think it's um, You're we're going to hear more about it as the ungrading movement continues Jesse Stommel's work at ungrading. Susan bloom has a has an edit collection Coming out soon on on contract well on excuse me ungrading. That's going to be a great compilation So I think it's going to become more popular because I think The contracts and you know in that that perspective grading are probably more realistic to the kinds of feedback That students are going to get when they graduate and move into whatever their career roles are No one's going to give them a 94 percent Um when they turn in their first assignment at work. So I think it's more realistic to try it that way um No, thank you. Thank you. That's a that's a great question. Um, and uh and a really really rich answer We've had jesse stommel's a guest in the program did a really passionate thought description of ungrading Bob calling Bob right now you might want to try jumping into another room For the chat. So if you look on your screen at either end of the screen the very left of the right side You'll see a kind of teal colored chevron Click one of those and you may be in a different room and that'll show people chatting from another room But I'll repeat back out loud the highlights from chat as well. Make sure I don't want you to miss anything, Bob um the um uh We have more questions that are just coming and and I I had some as well just to make sure it's the vulnerability person is brunet brown Yes, yeah Um, uh tom has another question. This tom hams uh has to do with large class sizes And how do you reconcile those with the individualized attention that seems necessary? I wish there was a simple answer to that And there's there's just not unfortunately I think there are ways that we can attempt to balance it because community building is going to be is crucially important um for hybrid courses for online courses just as it is in a face-to-face classroom students need to feel comfortable with each other to be able to Discuss your comments to throw things out there um So some of the things I've I've seen that people are suggesting are especially if it's um, if it's not a synchronous class Is to put students into small study groups So that they are always together throughout the semester or they're together with different groups for half the semester So that they have that continued point of community And then you can kind of hop in and hop out of those Of those environments and those classes um as as necessary We can't get to all of them in large class and you know being able to kind of say that I think it's it's again I think a lot of it has to do with just acknowledging the context You know having open video virtual office hours Right having a sign-up sheet So the students can pop in and being available again That's a boundary that you need to set that doesn't mean that you're you know your your zoom or your blue jeans is open all day Right, but there's there's a set of hours that you will be available for students to just drop in and chat and get to know you a little bit I know folks who are kind of scheduling, you know Five or six students to jump into a chat with them for 10 minutes or 15 minutes So that they get some one-on-one time To chat with the professor and get to know them and and part of it honestly is just maybe some videos Videos that show you as a person As an introduction You can offer students the same opportunity At to share a video or if they choose not to they could do an audio or they could do You know a written introduction to themselves That that humanize us in different ways as long as you're not requiring students to be on video or audio I think Having them do what they're comfortable with adds the level of humanity that maybe puts some of that human connection together Thank you, that really really helps There's there's more questions coming i'm not getting to ask any this is perfect And the and this is another one from uh from raj and raj forgive me for mangling your last name Devasagayam, I hope is the correct And uh raj asks this follow question. What's your advice for An acculturation onboarding of folks that will start their professional life remotely? How do I build community? Yeah, it there's so many things that are affected by this that we didn't necessarily Imagine we're going to happen or could have prepared for and ryan didn't even prepare for them And he knows everything that's going to happen So I think that it comes down to intentionality. I think it comes down to making a commitment You know if you're bringing someone into your department if you're bringing someone into your unit that you know Just having coffee hours with the whole department in a zoom room and just sharing personal stories or You know having a joke playing a game so that you can get to know each other a little bit But those are things that you have to intentionally do it's you're not going to have those conversations Where you just bump into someone in the hallway that doesn't happen anymore My unit has been leveraging teams And and we were very much a bump into the hallway Microsoft teams. Thank you. Yeah, Microsoft teams And you know at first it was very much to share information But you know after a long time, you know, we're joking with each other and we're posting gifts and we're laughing at each other And it it breaks up the day because you also I I've also found and Folks have said to me too that it's very easy to feel disconnected from everyone I don't know what my colleagues are doing in the same way that I would if I was you know, walking past their offices So you feel like you're isolated from the work and who knows? What is everyone else doing? Am I doing enough? I know Comparatively so connecting to people in those human ways Requires intentionality. Maybe that's a slack channel that you know you intentionally keep up Or maybe that is a regularly scheduled Time together online that isn't a meeting Right that you know my unit and I have we have lunch together on zoom a couple times a month All right, and that's not about work. That's about what are you eating for lunch? What are you doing and what's your furry co-worker doing today? You know, so so we are human with each other and we Can laugh with each other and then kind of go back with with the cup filled up a little bit more when we go back to the work The cup filled up a little bit more That's well said. I haven't been visited by my furry co-worker You're on either side of me right now I've been engaged in supervising We just got some junior some junior co-workers. So So they're running around somewhere that's guaranteed charisma. Um, this is fantastic Um, we uh, we had a couple of other questions. Um, I've come in No one wants to join us on stage right now, which is which is weird But the first questions are coming in which is great. Um And uh, this is one from the sarah san agorio Who is a wonderful person and she writes I support faculty my role feeling overwhelmed by everything going on They feel overwhelmed. I want to help them without drowning myself Do you any suggestions for those of us in support roles? Yes, compassion fatigue and secondary trauma are real um, and if if you can't That's the wrong word. If you don't have boundaries that you feel are solid It will be difficult not to get pulled into that and and it's It's challenging for us because we want to be compassionate We want to be empathetic and we want to support the people around us You know, it's our goal to help people rise up And and learn and contribute to the world. So of course we want to be there with them But we are all overwhelmed And most of us are not mental health professionals So some of the best things that we can do are to Give people permission to be mediocre. That sounds terrible Um, but you know most academics we set our bars very high and that's great But that's one we are more in a traditional experience when we don't have all this extra trauma on top of it So what would it mean for you to step back enough to do what especially if you're teaching If you're teaching how can you still achieve your course outcomes? How can you still be rigorous in ways that don't necessarily cause Undo anxiety or overwhelm right and that's not just for your students. That's for you Right, you know adding 10 formative assignments that you then have to grade right, you know, that's That's probably not protecting your mental health or your boundaries either So I think I found it important to kind of in some ways. I feel like I also I'm giving people permission You know, and it's what I needed to I needed to hear you have permission to step back You have permission to slow down you have permission to take care of yourself Um, because when you take care of yourself, then only then can you help support others as well Right and that trickles out and when we have to model that right if we don't model taking care of of ourselves and setting boundaries The people around us are not going to do it as well Right and we we don't do that very well in a traditional context So really thinking about what we can manage thinking about what we can handle and are willing to handle emotionally Right emotions are not necessarily something that we like to talk about as faculty members Right, we will talk about the intellectual stuff and the deliberative stuff, but but sharing emotions beyond i'm really busy and i'm crazy and blah blah blah right That's not real. That's not connection. Um, so I think boundaries You know, I don't know that there's another way Determined is to really you have to set your boundaries for what you're willing to give Of yourself and that's not selfish at all That's necessary This sounds like a lot of advice for first responders Yeah, most of the compassion fatigue research comes out of nursing social work K-12 um Greg somehow keeps writing and he says he quotes William Stafford saying lower your standards and keep writing Yep, I think Greg actually gave me that advice a couple months ago Yeah, he's gonna bang that at me There's uh You know, let me just ask you all sorry just one second on the chat everybody Would you all mind if I quote some of your, um Quotes like the William Stafford one and if I copy some of the um links that you shared And some of the ideas like Roxanne's mentioned permission to feel would you mind if I put that on a blog post? This is a really really rich conversation. I want I don't want to lose. I want to make sure people get to see this now Um, thank you. Thank you. And if you don't want me to use her name just just put that in there I won't I'm happy to do that um We um Sarah, thank you for that question. That is so so important and academic staff are often left out in these conversations. Yes vital Um, if you were to see this we also had a question from um up north from Salem State, uh, Stephen Oliver uh has one about um I'm torn between limiting the amount of time students are on zoom And wanting to help the students develop the capacity, stamina and presence necessary to engage in this format thoughts Questions, Stephen. Yeah, those are great questions. Um Well, and I think we can tell from our own experience how Long we can stay in a zoom call with stamina Or how many back-to-back zoom calls that we feel like we are mentally present and available and are at full capacity So I think just thinking about your own experience is a way to think about that first, right? And part of it I again part of it goes back to not necessarily knowing what Technologies our students have we can't assume that they can all be there at the same time with high quality synchronous connections So I think, you know, I think folks I know in faculty development or a lot of us are saying, you know Prepare for a fully remote class and then those synchronous experiences and those face-to-face experiences are bonus touch points Where you can dig into things in different ways Um, but Allowing students to dig into the material asynchronously and think about it in that way can be very rich There's you know, it's it's a myth that online education is less than face-to-face education You can build amazing experiences asynchronously with a synchronous component You can hook students up so that they're collaborating and they're working together Um, so I think you just have to find what the balance is for you and also keep in mind that your students are Probably taking three or four other classes right to two to four other classes And if those faculty members are expecting them to be on zoom an hour a day, right? And they have four classes and a day that's exhausting and you're not going to be your best to learn in that context So how can you use those synchronous moments? for Engagement and connection and maybe even deepening Some of the learning but also making that available to the students who can't necessarily be there I know folks who are giving students the opportunity to video record answers to things or video record A presentation or audio record that So thinking about different modes of students being able to participate in that context is is is an opportunity for creativity really You know when we give students a little bit more agency over how they show mastery of of an element then They come out more strongly and You know We all are going to be working with less attention than we would usually give because a good chunk of our mental capacities And our emotional capacities are dealing with the uncertainty of the world right now All right I have a specific question about that This is this is the part of the program where if we haven't addressed the future enough I try and touch people towards the future And I think this is a natural question. Do you Ever back in spring there are all these discussions about different grading paradigms. You know moving to pass fail and I wonder If we're going to see that happen for this For this fall and not just because of covet. I I fear that The election is coming up for november regardless of one's politics. I think the passions of that and the directions May also I I wonder if we're just going to ratchet down across higher education our Our assessment and our work expectations Um, I think that's a great question. Um, I think that We can still have Expectations Right, maybe not extremely high expectations, but high expectations Um, we can still have goals. We can still have learning outcomes all of our courses should have learning outcomes And our goal is not to dumb down the content at all. It's still to meet those those objectives But to let the objectives guide and a lot of times objectives Really true learning objectives don't necessarily lend themselves to an a through f scale, right? Or, you know What's the difference between an 83 and an 84 on on a test? right, so Grading is an unnatural thing Right, you can assess people in different ways that don't require a letter grade at the end of it, right? It's, you know, the mastery based learning team based learning Service learning all of those things you show contributions and you show some level of mastery of content or engagement with the content That don't require a letter grade. You can assess without grading right I think it's important to kind of split those up and You know, that's a potentially a potential area of hope Right, maybe we do start thinking about, you know, the research shows us that that grading is not motivating Great grading is motivating for cheating right Right, but it's it doesn't help students learn So, you know, how do we change that paradigm? Why do we do it in the first place? Lisa dirth likes it. I don't know anyone who likes No, I agree. It's it's it's um, it's like toothbrushing Lisa dirth points out mastery learning is the thing Charles finley follows up in his previous comment by saying that this group Registars require grades at the end. We have to change that whole system But we we are very very close to the Gosh, we're two minutes from the end of the hour. Oh, wow. I want to make sure people are here and it also to say um I think switching between zoom and shindig actually is pretty good. Um, I don't I have yet to feel shindig fatigue. Um, let me go. It's always changing. Thanks for always moving around Yes, yes, um and uh We um I'm wondering is there anything you want to leave us with any any advice when you can tell you've got a swarm of folks here from Deans Technologists librarians faculty students Anything you want to tell us to take away with besides everything else? I mean anything anything else, right, right? Um Self-care is not just Getting your nails done getting a massage taking a walk. Those are wonderful things that can support your health But self-care is boundaries, right setting boundaries for What you're willing to give emotionally intellectually? Um, knowing that again, we are in a time of crisis This is a very different world that we live in right now And we were surrounded by trauma and the secondary trauma of what's happening in the world and the anxiety and the fear of it It's okay To not necessarily maybe hit the bar that you were attempting a year ago Because maybe that bar wasn't necessarily an important bar. Anyway, it just maybe that's just what you thought the next step was So now is maybe a good time to just kind of take stock Right. What is it that I do really value? What is it that I love about what I do? How can I focus on those things? And support other people as they focus on the things that they value Um while still setting boundaries for myself to take care of myself and my family in this context That's a it's a wonderful wonderful message to leave us with a very very powerful one in this and it's extremely strange time um, do you um Well, I have to ask you do so much Um, what's the what's the best way that we can keep up with all that you do? Um, you can check out my website rebeccapoprewark.com I'm gonna start blogging again soon. I let myself stop blogging because I needed bandwidth for other things um, so there are resources there In terms of thinking about productivity before agile faculty was about faculty productivity long before The pandemic, but there are some strategies in there that will probably useful for For managing your work and that overload right now ways to think about and and represent your work visually I think you know that book's available the new book about redesigning liberal education is is available, but also please just reach out Um, you can contact me through the website and I'm happy to chat with you whether that's in a formal capacity As a coach or just as someone to lend a near Well, that's fantastic. You have you you've won a whole bunch of fans right here. There's just a whole lot of who are are delighted and um and inspired by by all of your comments and I wanted to thank you. That's um, I don't think that's very very remarkable if um friends everybody, um, if If you have ideas about how we can follow up with this Um, I've seen so far discussions about well, obviously bringing rebecca back on a daily basis clearly clearly but um, but But we've had a discussion about um, uh, following up on this task by having a Amends uh group to look for that or anything else. Please just um, just let us know and I'll follow up with a blog post Later on again rebecca. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you brown Well, I want to respect everybody's time. Uh, and again in the pursuit of boundaries Uh, let me just point out that uh next week sessions or the next couple months sessions are coming up with all kinds of topics Again, just go to tiny world dot com slash form fall 2020 Um, if you'd like to keep the conversation going, you know how to do it We have all kinds of ways in social media And uh, if you want to go back into the past and look at our previous sessions including sessions with on self-care and on grading just go to f tiny world dot com slash f t f archive and uh Above all Stay safe everybody. This has been a terrific conversation. Thank you very very much for all of that All of your thoughts and I wish you the best. Please take care and be safe. Bye. Bye