 It is my absolute pleasure to welcome everyone to this webinar, which I personally am so thrilled about. My name is Katie Kerry G Watts. I work part time on the move where I had our spearhead our efforts in terms of research and publications. Before I start, I would like to thank our partner for this event, which is how around who is helping us to live stream this webinar. This webinar, my colleague is going to introduce our speakers today but this webinar is a bit of a follow up for on the move on something that we did at the end of 2022, which is commissioned a podcast episode made by yours truly, in an interview with a journalist named heady Judah, who has been working in the field of arts and culture for a long time and recently wrote a book about the issue of specifically mobility but about parenting in the arts. And so this is kind of a follow up for us to get people who are speaking from different perspectives on this issue of parenting and care work and how it relates specifically to the specificity that is on the move which is of course, cross border mobility. Just a few technical things before we get started. Please make sure that you mute yourself and you turn off your video for the duration of the main portion of this webinar of course if you'd like to ask a question, feel at the end, feel free to unmute and turn on your video. This is being recorded and live streamed so just for your information and again if you don't wish to appear visually, keep your video screen off that's totally fine. So we do have the possibility of having this event being captioned today. And so what you can do is in the bottom left of your zoom screen if you click on more, click on those three little dots. You should see a pop up screen with the word captions on it and if you click on it, you should be able to have captions. And if you would like to ask a question which would just ask that you use a little reaction again it's at the bottom and you can raise your hand. And I think that that's it and it's now my absolute pleasure to hand this this over to our moderator today who is my wonderful colleague you're in flock. Thank you very much Katie thank you. It is great to welcome so many participants today for this conversation on parenting care and cultural mobility so my name is you on flock. I'm the director of operations at on the move and for participants with visual impairment on white man in my mid 40s, wearing a beige sweater, and I'm using a digital white background with the logo of on the moon on it. And my pronouns are he is as you may know already on the movies the International Information Network dedicated to artistic and cultural mobility so we gather 66 members from 24 countries. And last year we celebrated our 20th anniversary. We provide regular up to date free information on mobility opportunities and funding. And we advocate for the value of course border cultural mobility, we are funded or co funded by the European Union through the creative Europe program. And we deliver or try to deliver quite ambitious multi annual program. So, as part of this programs we propose twice a year mobility webinars to investigate mobility related themes and today we propose to explore the tensions between cultural mobility, or international mobility and parental responsibility in the UN in internationally. And that transnational collaboration and mobility is an integral part of the trajectory of artists and cultural professionals want to discuss how our ecosystem considers and manages parenthood, and particularly for women. Why do we propose this conversation today, because at on the move, since we are a very interesting observatory point, we see these tensions, and that have been not growing, but at least in the spotlight for many many years And of course, parenting in the art is something that is very old as a theme, but quite new in the level of awareness that we can, you know, as see, especially in these post pandemic times, we are navigating already a few years as we go through a very interesting European project called shift and the move worked on issues related to post me to movement addressing gender based violence, and when unfolding these post me to realities, many more broader challenges came to light, in particular regarding the condition of artists and cultural professionals, including parenting issues. But we collected many testimonies throughout the years on how you are a parent and a working parent when you have to travel internationally to venues and festivals, when you have to present work at BNRs or apply for projects for yourself as an individual But for yourself as a family, when you have, you know, partners and kids to travel with collecting testimonies was made quite informally, and very recently, we came up with a critical mass of testimonies around the conditions of working artists and how our ecosystem was not always well equipped to welcoming families. And these testimonies were colliding where other concerns in our ecosystem. How do we move or be mobile cross border with environmental concerns and more sustainable practices. So slow mobility, green mobility, longer mobility experiences abroad so how do you do that way when you are a parent. Quite recently and decided to monitor several accessibility aspects in all the open calls we signed post across the year, but also the funding sources and grants we collect and share through our mobility funding guides. Another aspect of parenting in the arts is quite invisible, still, and invisible in the sense that solutions are find found by organizers by festivals by artists in residence programs, but these solutions, or accompaniment measures are not publicized, and they are rarely clearly described in open calls. And then we commissioned to point of entry and to Katie, a podcast on on on the topic. We were quite aware that this topic is quite discussed in several parts of the world, but we also realize that most of the literature available is coming from the UK and from Northern America, and many parts of the world, don't have yet put forward charters, guidelines, guidance and testimonies online. So today we, we are going to explore these with three wonderful as professionals. We are going to explore the realities of parenting in the arts, with the idea that we not only talk about artists, but also cultural professionals, as we consider in our kids ecosystem, who the producers agents to managers managing are also part of the conversation. And we are choosing the word parents, and not just mothers, also, as a, you know, as an acknowledgement that even if women are overwhelmingly responsible for for childcare childcare, we also want to include, you know, other parents in this conversation. So we're going to go through a conversation that will be around, and now we're in the house. We want to have a conversation with the three panelists around what are the conditions for cultural stakeholders to avoid reducing their international experience and international exposure. And what kind of solutions they could encounter in their professional trajectory. And through, you know, grassroots initiatives to continue international collaborations and we would like to, at some point, collect recommendations recommendations for the cultural fields. We can make a recommendation for ourselves we can mendations for decision makers and policymakers. So today, I know that the scope of the conversation could really go wild and crazy, because parenting touch upon many issues personal issues professional issues. And because of the very nature on the move and our core mission, we will try as much as possible to address cross border mobility. So the international projects. This international dimension that we, we value. So today with me, we have three panelists. Casey Rain, who is an actor, a film, television and theater actor, based in the UK, but she's also the co founder and joined CEO of parents and carers in performing arts. So welcome Casey, and very happy to have you here. I'm with you and make a wooden bar who is a Nigerian artist, currently based between Lagos and fiber so between Nigeria and Germany, and as a visual artist, he worked using many, many media installations video performances photographs drawing paintings. What also is interesting with America is that he leads and founded a residency space in Lagos called project space Lagos, an independent space for contemporary art that has been existing for more than 10 years. And we will be also discussing with him, what are the conditions to welcome parents in in his pace. And we will also have with us, with Michelle you, who is a producer into a booker working in the contemporary circus field. He's been working for supporting artists, companies developing the artistic projects, the performances, and to tour these performances in Europe, and at global level. She's the co founder of Lavon courier, which is a very particular support organization for, for the circus artists in France. So welcome you three. And maybe I will ask you when you take the floor to do a very brief presentation of yourself physically for our participants with visual impairment. I will probably ask a first question to to you with Michelle. When preparing this conversation, we had very valuable exchange around what are the conditions for artists to actually prepare the world or prepare the ecosystem in them being parents. And I would like to ask you how far do you go into conversation with artists that are becoming parents or about to become parents to prepare what could be a potential impact on their work life. And I mean, particularly you working in the circus field, and to give us some examples of the conversation you have with your artist. You need to unmute yourself maybe. I'm Louise Michelle, you are a white woman for around 40. I'm blonde with a white strand of hair and yellow. So how we prepared the parents or persons about to be parents must first of all say that it's been a great evolution. The organization I'm running with for women. We implemented it in 10 years ago. Sorry. And I can see the evolution through the times about those questions from the very beginning we've been working with parents or people about to be parents. And I see that we hopefully we are, we are moving forward. And so the, how, how we prepare that. I see that from the, at the beginning of the bureau, we, we did not talk so much about it. There was more about between the artist, they were talking about it and taking this in charge by themselves. And, and now we are trying to, to create this conversation because the very first step for us is the discussions inside the teams from the experiences that we had, it was very difficult in some teams like kind of trauma for, for parents that they are not heard about that, that the only answer was, okay, it's a private matter, and you should deal with this. This is the very first step, which is quite difficult and something more in circus, like more particular to circus is the question of physical and also physical, like condition, and also of partners, like, of course, in some other arts you also have partners. But in some, in some circus disciplines, you are partners and you cannot work with another partner like after two weeks, you need like real great time of real soul and knowing each other, etc. So this is, this really particular to circus and we are trying to now to raise the conversation about this. And from the tensions we had inside the teams was also that all the people needed to be taken into consideration, not only parents, obviously. So this was our very first step. And recently in, in France, Biennale in Marseille, they were, there was a discussion about this, this topics, and the discussion went on the physical recovery for people. And I, I talk about it because the artists who were talking about that, especially from company basing guy, if you want to learn a bit more. They were saying that it is important also to prepare during the pregnancy for circus artists in particular. So the, we hope that the National Circus School in France will, will prepare this for the next year to have two sessions during their year to, to, to work physically with people who are pregnant and after they gave birth to, to be back on stage. So it's some a few, few things I can, I can tell from the very beginning. And that's interesting because what you are pointing out in a way is that the, in these cases, the ideal balance between private life and work life explode. I mean, there's no, you know, a border anymore in the sense that when a collective of artists or an artistic company works together, create performances together. When one is having a baby, actually the entire company or the entire collective is having a baby, because everybody needs to adjust to the very reality of the impact that it will have on the trajectory of a collective artistic trajectory. And the first is, and the second thing that is interesting is the idea that you, you mentioned examples in France that are quite interesting in the circus field. I'm sure we could find similar experiences in the dance field that an artist have recovery plans for rebuilding their, their body or being fit again to perform and use their craft again and try to recover from sometimes difficult pregnancies. It's interesting that an art school is involved in this process of supporting mothers and welcoming them back to school to actually practice and make sure they can go back on track with their artistic and creative practice. I'm going to ask now a question to Emeka. Emeka, I don't, we don't see you, maybe you can put your video on. Welcome Emeka. The same before taking the floor will ask you to describe briefly for our participants with visual impairments. Emeka, you are an artist that is navigating several countries, not only because you leave between two continents between Germany and Nigeria, but also because of your artistic practice you have a lot of projects that takes place in different parts of the world. You are invited in Biennale, you are putting exhibitions on, etc. And I was wondering that if the very fact of being a father impacted your, your international projects and how if they did. Thank you, first of all, so much for this very important forum. As you said, first I want to introduce myself again, I'm Emeka Udemba, I'm an artist and I'm also the facilitator of Project Space Lagos in Nigeria. So Project Space is a space that like I offer interdisciplinary possibilities for artists and we also offer residency possibilities. Yes, as an artist, as a, you know, an active one at that, I think there's a conception that being a parent or being an artist and being a parentist is something that you can either choose one or the other. But I find that in today's world, I think we should be able to kind of combine things together and make them work. And the fact that most of the time, if you're talking about parenting, most of us, we also think it's just the women that are doing the parenting. But I think we should also start including men because for me, I also had to, you know, manage the situation of being one part of the parent, being an artist, and dealing with that situation of going to residency is also with my kid. And I find, you know, instead of being like almost like a negative being a parent, I find it's actually enriching. You know, if both partners, if the artist and the facilitators, like they said, the residency spaces have a common goal because it has to, the common goal would be to enhance it or give the artist the opportunity to almost improve or explore further his practice. And if this is the main goal for the two entities that are into this process, I think for me my experience is that both ways or both partners will have to be very flexible in the way they kind of construct this relationship. You know, if they are flexible, there are ways to go around difficulties. Definitely it's challenging to be a parent or an artist. You know, the first residency that I did with my kid is when my daughter was six years, six months, six months old. And I found it, in the beginning, it was scary to travel with a six month old kid. But at the end of the day, it was one of the most interesting aspects because a six month old kid just eats and sleep. So, you know, just feed the kid good time, you know, put her in bed, she can't run away, she can't move, she just like sleeps. So you have all the time in the world to be creative. You just need to, you know, peep in once in a while and see that she's fine. And you are good to go. And then the second time I had also, you know, experiencing when my kid was also maybe nine or 10, it was also easy because I had to kind of try to incorporate her into my work, make her part of my work. And then find time to go to these residencies when she has long time breaks. So if the partner is willing to be accommodating, you know, the times that you can go for a month or two would be no problem because most schools, most schools have long, when they have long breaks, it's either a month or two. So you can use those breaks and do those residencies with your kid and, you know, those moments are really even intensive periods where you actually have your kid to yourself and you're doing your own. So, instead of being a minors, I see it really as very rich into the overall creative process. Yeah, that is very interesting also that you, you share your, your experience and what I see also in what you share that you point out the fact that it takes a conversation. I mean, in a way, it's, it's tailor made and the gatekeepers or the facilitators, the host of residencies, but I'm sure this could apply to festivals and, and other artistic events that welcome artists for work for creation for presentation need to be flexible. So to listen actually, which I find it very interesting that we are already in this, you know, recommendation mode. Let's listen to the parents. Let's work with them on what is the solution that fits best, according to the age, obviously, of the kids or the children, but also according to the availability of all the adults surrounding. So the partners or are the carers that could support. So it takes a constellation of small or big efforts to make things happen, which I find very interesting. Casey, if I go to you. Again, I will ask you to, to briefly describe yourself. The, what was striking for me is I've heard of the people initiative already years ago when it all started. And I remember the success of the campaign that was led. And the, you know, the resonance or the, the, the success of reaching out a lot of practitioners from the performing outs to say, This is a blind spot. We should be working on this altogether. Could you, could you tell us a little bit more about the, the premises of the people campaign. Yeah, sure. And my name is Cassie rain. I am a white female in my 40s. I've got long brown hair and a ponytail and I'm wearing brown jump black polo neck. I'm sitting in my picture picture of London behind me. It's really, it's really lovely to be here because, you know, and to hear to be part of this conversation because when we founded parents and carers and coming up six years ago. There was no dialogue, there was, you know, there was no conversation. And so I am an actor and my, my business partner Anna and I love the other co-founder is a theater director. And we met when my first daughter was eight months old. Yes, eight months old. And I took her to a rehearsal that Anna's theater company was was holding where children were allowed in the room. And this was something that was, it was never heard of I haven't worked since I declared that I was pregnant when I was five months pregnant so I hadn't worked for this whole kind of stretch of time. And suddenly there was this open door where I could take my child. And it was alternately exciting and frustrating and she cried and but I was in the room and I felt part of it and I was part of lots of other artists doing this. And as I went through that kind of early stage with my daughter. I really struggled. I really struggled. I didn't have any support. I don't have family around me. I couldn't afford childcare. And I was rocking up at kind of auditions. I couldn't tour. And there was no support. And I just, you know, I'd been brought up to kind of think I was equal in the world and then, and then here I was kind of confined to my kitchen with this kid. And I spoke to Anna about it. I was like, this can't, it can't just be us. It can't just be me. And, and I'm, you know, I'm relatively privileged. And so we started asking around. We spoke to people with equity, the Actors Union in England. And we said, look, we think this is a problem. We think this is a problem for lots of people. We're not sure if this is a thing, but it seems to be a thing for us. And he said, all right, here's 2000 pounds. Why don't you have an event and find out. So the Young Vic Theatre gave us their space to host an event. We didn't even know if anybody would turn up because it was invisible. No one spoke about it. Well, we knew it could have just been us in the room. And we have 400 people show up and over 70 babies. It wasn't just actors. It wasn't just musicians or dancers or stage management. It was executives. It was casting directors. You know, because everything whole room full of people kind of going, we can't work. And so after that, we realized that this was a thing that we needed to do something. We also realized that because parenting and caring is kind of seen as soft. It wasn't just physical data. There was no evidence. This was a whole kind of group of people. No one really was interested in no one knew anything about and it was invisible. So we set about conducting research. We got funding from the Arts Council of England. We worked with 14 organizations and we conducted a huge survey and the challenge for people was was was epic. It was very obvious to everybody. Then we had a, we had a kind of case for support. And we worked with organizations 14 of them initially to see what they could do, see what we could come up with in response to the findings of this of this survey, because we work antisocial hours we go on tour the show is in the evening. You know, and, and there was just this kind of prevailing. It's just the way that it is, nothing can be done. Hang on, there's got to be some inclusion and diversity is a is a massive, there's a massive focus in the performing arts. And we worked with these organizations and at the end of it they came up with a best practice charter facilitates that process. And it's a set of 10 guiding principles to help organizations work towards achieving best practice. So we look at things like recruitment, we look at working practices, we look at additional resources childcare communication and policies and around this we have created a program so it's a kind of facilitated program that's kind of monitored and evaluated every step of the way so organizations can see their progress. We now have over 70 partners, we have 56 organizations taking part in the best practice charter program. And in theater, the, the landscape has completely changed. We have on stage job shares backstage job shares job shares at every level of organizations flexibility, and people are talking about it. So it's a completely different landscape to when we set up six years ago. That's beautiful, that's a fantastic example of, you know, a big push and and and starting the conversation indeed. And it's fascinating that it is both, I mean people in the industry so freelance workers, but not only artists like really a lot of different profiles, joined forces to address the issue, and organization responded. Because this is, you know, the, you know, a wild guess in a way but it's nice to see that today you reach out to 70 organization that, in a way made commitments and had a review of their processes and adapted to, you know, reality, just that. Maybe I just go back to you, Louise, because in this process and these conversations, you also had to, in a way, have these conversations with venues and festivals and resiliency centers in order for your artists to, you know, have these opportunities and you being, you know, in between, you know, the arts, the artist and, you know, the gatekeepers as we call them. You also had to somehow build the case, find the arguments, try to convince or to explain. I want you to share with us a little bit about this experience. I will begin with a more pessimistic quote and trying to go more optimistic on the side. Recently, also in resonance with what Emeka said about the fathers, I want to share a little bit about this comment we had. It's about an artist who is a father who is already a father is going to be a father again. He has multiple shows of this company presented in one big festival in France and is going to be a father during this period. That's why we warned the organizers that he couldn't, he couldn't go like five months before the event. And I read a small quote of the answer of the organizer. I consider it a drift. I fully understand that artists have a private life and that in this life there is room to be more on that. Otherwise, on the other end, I do not conceive that these two realities are opposed to each to each other. That private life becomes an obstacle to professional lives and leads to questioning commitments made our entire profession is based on respect for certain fundamental values, including this one. But this was the answer we received after we won this organizer five months before the event that it was not possible because the father wanted to be there for the birth of his child. So this is like the 2023 now. We received it like a few months ago. But I want to share more optimistic part also that, for example, on the on the show was I was backing up for many years, which is the show called Martin film with seven women on stage from all over Europe. We decided quite quickly that we wanted to note on the very first draft we send to organizer that we are coming with families, we it was it was depending on the time but it was written. We are coming with four to six babies. So it was like, so you, you have to find accommodation and you have to not we, we want we ask not to be in ourselves but in BNBs for example like accommodation that are also close to the place where we were performing. And they were mainly there was no problem about that. The nice part was that the difficult one that is that it. It never happens that one organizer asked before. It's like, we always have to ask. So it's from the recommendation part we will go further. I think it's something really important to us because it's always us like the team or the manager, I represent that we always have to ask. This pedagogical matter. So from what Casey explained is also very important this matter of charter, etc, because it's also like a way of raising awareness and it's not, it's not relying on only on people who are concerned, like it's a public affair. So finally, mainly when we have this, this situation. Now it's written and it's, it's written in the contract that we are coming with children, we need this kind of accommodation, we need the carriers to be taken in church for accommodation and food. The, the problem we have at the moment is that we, it's not taken in charge that we the travel sorry are not taken in charge. So this is for the moment, it's realized only on companies or all the persons themselves. So when you speak about crossing borders, it goes fast. I can imagine I can imagine definitely. It is interesting though that, you know, in a way, the artistic collective with your support came with a plan in a way came with a series of, you know, bullet points in the technical writer saying this is how it's going to happen. And this is in a way not negotiable. I will not leave our kids behind just to please you and to, you know, take the box coming to your festival and, you know, developing or proposing the performance. So it is interesting that you took the lead, I think. And I can feel that the idea of this is a conversation that you are starting. I think you are writing saying that it cannot always be an individual conversation. And at some point to have guidance and made public that everybody can refer to just in case of, you know, wondering or discovering and to have a charter or to have, you know, websites and proposing some sort of points that everybody should agree upon etc is valuable in terms of exchanging a good practice and information. When it comes to welcoming artists, Emeka, I know that you, I mean, you run a space in Lagos. I don't know if you were because you have the second hat of being also a host and being able to potentially welcome artists. Do you have some sort of policies or guidelines? Or do you have some sort of mindset around welcoming artists with their families? The things are like the reality is that, you know, having residencies with kids could be very challenging. That's why my experience, from my experience, I just find being flexible on both sides because you could plan everything and suddenly something goes wrong and you have to be in that situation to be able to react and still make the thing work. So for us, it's important to just have a certain guidelines where we all work towards or see and say, okay, because the average parent that comes to a new space will want a space that is safe, want a space that is dependent on the age of the child, also want a space where the person will have access to healthcare if there's an emergency. They want to have a space also where maybe mobility also if they want to go from one place to the other. For example, if most people come with a kid, so probably if you have maybe a bicycle that has a child carrier or whatever, so the person is more flexible, the person can go on short trips. So basic things like that you just have to kind of take care of. And then I think our own advantage is that we kind of almost organized as a community where, you know, like, for example, when it comes to educational activities for the kid, nearby we have like a private school that one can easily integrate any kid in the private school. It's near the parents can also always go and kind of check on the kid whenever the person wants. So it's really a bit like a close, needed community. But basically, it's just like what everybody needs to be flexible, because you can't plan everything, you know, you can't plan and then suddenly the kid becomes sick, what do you do? You know, like you find you have to really react and make sure that it works. And then I find one important thing is also is a big financial burden, even on the artist, because most times you find that an artist want to want to come with his or her kid. You find that once a kid is around two years, the kid already pays the full cost of the ticket. So you find, you know, even traveling with a kid as an artist, you have to almost no provision for almost an adult as if the kid is an adult when it comes to moving from one place to the other. It is interesting because what you describe is also, it's not only takes a conversation, as we were saying, but it also takes a community. And it's a community project almost to be able to welcome parents in your venue, or residencies, PACE, festival, etc., in the sense that you have to put into place way more than just a space or way more than just, you know, this is the emergency number in case you need it, but it takes much more effort than that. I like very much that you insist on the flexibility aspect, and also that you, you know, highlight the health care, but I would say almost the well-being of parents because of the worry involved. And this is something that we hear also quite often young parents being worried to just leave their kid, even next room when they are rehearsing or practicing or, you know, performing. So it takes way more than just a couple of elements to make sure that everything goes according to plan. And then what also is interesting is that you bring the money issue in the conversation. When we talk about parenting in the arts quite often, especially when working internationally, we hear testimonies or comments saying, I don't have the financial capacity to be able to offer this, not only because of the airfare and the extra, you know, tickets, but also the support to be able to welcome not only the artist, but also their families, but also because of this infrastructure almost or these, you know, these conditions that you have to put together to be able to, you know, welcome parents in good conditions. The money is something that we hear quite often when monitoring the open calls around 700 or 800 calls that we publish every year on our website, open calls for residencies, open calls for, you know, participating in festival programs, open calls for grants, from very diverse, you know, projects or funding bodies, we don't see very often, even I would say we never see, you know, in the criteria or the conditions offer that a special attention would be put onto parents, artists and their families for, you know, obvious financial conditions. However, we also see quite a lot of examples year after year of especially residency programs, showcasing that they welcome families or they even have a special, you know, title or segment of activity dedicated to an artist parent. So we see that the, or the needle is moving or the conversation is changing or growing, the level of awareness is also growing. But I was wondering if, apart from the money issue, you see other elements that prevent artists and cultural professional to access international opportunities. Well, the thing is like, I think it might depend on different regions. Because typically, if most artists in the global north will be a bit skeptical of coming, especially when they're in their parents, you know, taking up a residency in Africa. You know, with a kid, I think they'll be, I think my experience, it's a bit, it will be a bit skeptical in doing that because, you know, obviously, I think it's something cultural, if you're not used to, or if you think that where you're about to go is a bit culturally, you know, too diverse or whatever, it might be skeptical to kind of take that plunge. Yeah, but apart from that, I find it actually depends on the offer being made. If, because I'm being practical, if I'm being, most artists get offers of a residency that in the space is okay, the money to, you know, buy their flight tickets and live on during that residency, if they can afford it. I think, or if they can, if they think it's okay for them, I think they would take it up because I think majority of artists want that experience of the other space, you know, to experiment, to explore and, you know, kind of develop their work for them. But I find personally, no matter how idealistic you are, I think most artists would think about the practical end of how practical is it, can I afford it? Am I having enough funding that will warrant me moving from one space to another? Okay, practicalities do matter. I can't see you, Casey, nothing. In terms of, I mean, what would prevent, you know, artists' parents or cultural professionals' parents to access foreign opportunities or international opportunities. I think it's, I mean, there's lots of, there's this conversation, you know, you said there's not one solution fits all. There's a, it's a multifaceted challenge and it requires kind of a multifaceted approach. And there's several things I wanted to pick up on. The things that Louise, Michelle, that you're talking about, Emeka, that you're talking about, we have names for all of these things that we promote to our partners. And these are all things that signal invitation and belonging and welcome. So whether your venue is in Africa, whether it's in Scotland, whether it's in Thailand. So if you have the right communication and the right signs and the right messaging that that person knows that they will be welcome and safe in your company with their children, then they will come to your venues. So, ideally, a venue or a festival producer will reach out. You know, so, so they take the onus off the individual, because when the individual has to come forward and say, I'm a parent and carer or carer, what, how can you support me? And already they feel like they're slightly asking for something that other people aren't getting, whereas actually if the responsibility is the employer to say, or the festival to say, what do you need, what do you need in order to come and do your work at our festival and how can we support that so we've just published which I'll share in a minute, because it's freely available and access rider. So sharing responsibilities like any other access need, you know, so on the form it's you don't need to specify what your situation is, but simply what you need in order to be able to come. And that's a really helpful document for organizations to kind of know what what what's what's what could be asked of them and what could be expected. And the ending. And what I loved about what you say, we call that a welcome pack so a family friendly welcome pack. And it's basically something that all paper organizations have, and it covers what the venue facilities are. So is there a fridge for breast milk. Is there a breastfeeding room. Do they provide childcare is there a list of local childcare providers. What are the travel arrangements how do they get there is it family friendly can you store a buggy there, what are the family friend, what are the family friendly accommodation options. And what local facilities you know I'm okay you talked about medical facilities and a parent needs to know, you know what what those facilities are and that will give them confidence to come. And we have two things I just wanted to mention. One is, we call it a Pippa champion. So it's somebody within the organization who is like a kind of sign poster. So in the family friendly welcome pack organizations can say, if you experience a caring related problem this is your person who will support you and sign posts you way to be. And that that dedicated person is then available for any emergencies or any for any questions. And the second is what we call a Pippa pot. So, people are always going to continue having care related emergencies, and the extent to which that is going to impact your production or your organization depends on what provision you already have in place. Otherwise, what we see is organizations ending up with kind of emergencies all over the place they have to mitigate anywhere. So our partner organizations, not all of them and it's, it's not widely publicized, but we've introduced this thing called a Pippa pot, which is a ring fenced budget line. The organizations have in case of a caring related need or emergency, you know, whether that's one example was a father who was rehearsing a play he was booked for a long time, he was rehearsing a play. His wife was due to give birth at the beginning of rehearsals, and he needed that time off at the beginning of rehearsals, which they gave him and financially they had the Pippa pot so they were able to kind of get a replacement for that period of time so they were ready for that scenario they got the act they wanted, and the show went on. So what we advocate for is that organizations are prepared and resourced adequately at the sort of planning stages, so that when people do present with caring responsibilities that they're able to support. Yeah. And that's very informative in also in terms of tools that you create to answer the needs and I guess, Louise Michelle you, you want also to. I'll let you tell me what Casey said and I just want to share also that we are in employers syndicate in France in a second. And we are advocating at the moment for financial support when you start again after giving birth, because also this is buried where you are not. So we want to be back on stage right right after your, your, your time you do time, but you would like to be back in the collective and to know what's going on what are the next creation etc. But most of the time the company cannot afford that. So we are advocating for a financial support for this. So that the person could be on tour, we will performing. She's back, she, she, or he back on tour and see the alcohol, the collective can be back on real souls, not performing but on real soul and recover physically I was as I was talking before, and get in touch for future creations, etc. So finding being back on stage with no brutal transition. So also that money possibilities. Also, I mean, because you are working a lot in collaboration with other collectives but also you are part of these are advocating within several, you know, organization or unions or citizens or federations I mean, you are really part of the, of the, you know, industry organisation around parenting. Do you have also other recommendations or, you know, the ideas that you put forward, you know, and, and try to raise awareness or design specific tools in France. I think we have already named many of, especially when the case you talked about like the charter the bullet list. The fact that the organizer take the responsibility. The money for travels accommodation and food. The, what I was talking about the recovery physical recovery periods. And so it's like a more global thing about this discussion inside teams like it requires also that you are a bit trained to organize this you cannot improvise this also that it's, it's about we are talking about this matter of parenting care and mobility and it's a global global issue that we are not so good at this in cultural organizations, having a social discussions, what are their needs, what are the rules, how we can adapt and we can. Is it like a more global one, and also like a more global recommendation would be not to focus in mothers and women to do this job like I said also taking consideration the partners, and it will help everybody, like more. More that and yeah, like the maybe last thing I will say before the question and answer is also trying to adjust the rhythm to the most vulnerable profile, like solo parents. So it will benefit to all the others, because, for example, like we are this example like solo parents and we are trying to, to adjust that and we know that it is really better for the others also. And this is something I saw in the in the points of entry podcast you were mentioning at the beginning was also interesting like also this issue could help us for many other issues that are here in the cultural field that we don't address. No, it is very interesting and this goes back to the access wider that you were talking about Casey, you know, how do you put into place mechanism that can actually cater for very different needs, not only the needs of the parents but of disabled artists and many other, you know, people in our in our sector that could actually benefit for from the accompaniment measures or for support to actually deliver the best and be able to thrive in their work. I'm going to open the floor to the participants and attendees of today. I'm sure you use the chat to post questions or comments or links, but you can definitely use your digital hand and make sure that we can see you, if you want to take the floor and contribute with, you know, lived experience examples that you you encountered in the in your own trajectory but also resources or ideas. We are very keen to collect ideas and recommendations before giving them the floor to participants. We just have a question around this international dimension that we focus on today, and the advocacy part. I mean, we heard from the three of you that you have boiled down many arguments and translated that into practical tools, be it you have contracts being technical writers or access writers being a charter, etc. What do you think we should be advocating towards, you know, arts councils, ministries of cultures, institutions, what are the elements you we could shape collectively to actually raise even further and propose very practical measures? For me, I think, I think, you know, when one is dealing with institutions, I think it should be we should have programs that are that are actually more tailored to kind of encourage parents or artists that are parents to apply for these residences, because I think that will really help in changing the attitude of both practitioners and also facilitators, because the thing is that like being an artist and parenting and being wanting or having this urge to to be mobile, to go to residences does not diminish your professionalism or the quality of the work you do as an artist. So if we can, I know there are already, you know, institutions that, you know, precisely invite artists with families and with kids to apply for residences. But I think it's still very the minority at the moment, I think there should be an advocacy to increase such possibilities for artists with with with families and with kids. Louisa, do you have some some suggestions on your on your side? Yeah, but advocating globally, which, which do you mean? Yeah, which, which point we would like to advocate, especially like really raising awareness and like money support from organisers. Okay, so the host and more than the politicians and Casey. My, my wish list is long. I'll keep it brief. I was just so first of all just to respond to the question about funding. Certainly in the UK there's, it's not very clear about what you can and can't apply for in terms of acts. Well, it is clear actually the access costs on an arts council application, for example, you cannot include care related childcare related expenses. That's something that we've been advocating for for a long time. But I do know that the way lots of lots of companies do it is building it into their practice it so into the kind of the body of the application. And I know, you know, lots of organizations have got funding for fresh for childcare for assistance. Personally, we would like to see it as part of the, as part of the access entitlement that is offered from funders. And then the other thing I would say from organizations is when they have funding deadlines, please don't put them in the holidays. Please don't put them in the, in the childcare holidays the amount of, you know, CEOs of big organizations who have these huge deadlines in the middle of the holidays. And it makes it really challenging. I think on a political level, accessible, affordable, flexible childcare is an absolute necessity for every government and the UK is really far behind on that. We are working towards that shared parental leave is another, because this isn't a women's issue. This is a collective issue, and we have to enable empower men to take up their kind of, it's their equality, equal status at work and at home, with men and women and same sex partners. And so I would say shared parental leave and childcare. They're my two political policy asks and political, let's let's be honest and political. Thank you for these recommendation. It is also interesting that many of these points are related to mindset, it feels. I mean, in terms of equality, as you said, but also when America was was talking about the, in a way that we have to fight these issues, it's a feeling of lack of legitimacy or lack of credibility as soon as you are parent like suddenly you start from scratch, because you had a kid so you have, you know, gaps in your resume or you have, you know, all these things that we have to fight, and as an artist, like you don't, you shouldn't be feeling that you start from scratch. I can see that we have a couple of questions in the chat, and I'm probably going to ask first or read Rebecca Nord questions. Are you, for example in the UK or France applying for funding to help with this issues already when you apply for funding to create a performance. So, I mean Casey you answered a little bit in relation of these costs, as such not being eligible. What about in France with Louise Michelle. It is not. I don't know all of course, but I don't see it mentioned anywhere. So, for example, for a show that we are, we are producing at the moment and the artist is going to give birth at the end of this month. We want to include this in the budget, but I think we will do the same way as Cassie said that we will put inside the application into the core of the application and and if we are asked in the details, we will explain more that we need this and this and why did we put this line of budget. But yeah, no, at the moment. I don't. I see a message from ever in the chat. I'm a visual artist and performer and for me one of the most important question is how open call sometimes demand to be present for several weeks, even months, which seems difficult to stand up to as a parent most often I don't even apply. I think it would be great if in open calls the times given would be again more flexible and depend on the time needed by the artist instead of given in advance. Could this idea be included in in an access writer or other chart in the future. I think this is a valid point in terms of flexibility but I'm not here to judge so if you have comments. Is this is this to do with an open call. I'm not I'm not I'm not really sure I understand the question is it that is it that the date is kind of set so far in advance or it is like you applied to or you see a call for residency in Nicaragua and it is three months. You know, and three months seems like a lot for parents to be away, even with their kids, you know, even if all the conditions are wonderful. So the idea of the lack of flexibility in these open calls for projects or for residencies, etc. If I understood the question but don't hesitate ever to to post again if I if I, if I did it. Excuse me, do you hear me. Yes. It meant mostly the duration of the residencies is often given in the open call. But it's for me, for example, it's impossible to be present for like three months at a time. I don't even think that for example for certain projects, it is, it should be obligatory to be there for such a long time, if the project in itself could be realized in a shorter time. But at the same time, there are residencies which don't give you the the flexibility like we've mentioned before and I think it's a key. And that's why I'm asking if this could be probably incorporated into another charter or something that you are preparing probably maybe for France even that would be great. And so it was just something to mention it's rather a comment than a question, it's true. But I think it's to to be considered also on the long term. I just want to jump in quickly. Hello everyone, it's Katie carriage watch from on the move. We, I, when the podcast episode that points of entry did with on the move with had to do that we talked actually about this in the podcast and we specifically talked about this idea of duration and that one specific need in terms of mobility is the need to be flexible and being like, well, I can't be on site for three months and so I maybe need two weeks on and two weeks off or whatever the combination that works for you basically. And this is also an interesting point that maybe this particular issues relates to mobility, combines with some other stuff that on the move works on and advocates for which is things like green mobility. So, even if you're not a parent like maybe it's also interesting for you to because you have other needs that are not nothing to a parenting but it could be this idea of hybridity and so it's really focusing on, you know, maybe it's really part virtual and part onsite and I think it's it's just this whole what we're talking about really is this mindset mindset shift from, you know, the institution as really being of service to the artists instead of being like the artist is something instead of kind of the other way around, which I think is unfortunately a lot of this space functions and so that is a really long term generational mind shift mindset shift I think but you know, unfortunately a lot of these spaces like they just don't. We're still at the level I think I'm trying to get enough people to listen to it and be like oh we need to change how we're doing things and maybe this is one of those spaces basically. Thank you for this and thank you also ever for for bringing this particular aspect on. I think, indeed, I mean both the deadlines during holidays, the flexibility in terms of calendar agenda, the lens of projects and residencies are very interesting points. Not only for open calls but also for funders supporting mobility trips basically giving travel grants etc. Working around or taking these aspects on board could be an interesting recommendation. I'm just checking now if there are other points that were shared in the chat. I would see. If there is. Please let me know or take the floor. You see, it's quite a open I see. I'm wondering what your experience is in how artists managed to combine their roles as artists and as a parent during residencies used to apply to residencies to take a step back from my daily conditions and surroundings. As a parent I don't want to be away from my family but still want to focus on autistic work. This situation puts me in a split. Do you have any reaction to this. I think it's a natural reaction for every parent because you want, as I said before, an environment that will be safe for you and the kids or the kids. I think if you're interested in really going for residency and you apply and you get accepted, I think the next step is to start a conversation with the facilitator. I think it's the job then of the facilitator to kind of assure you or reassure you depending on your needs that at least to an extent those needs will be met. And I think if you get those assurances I think that will give you more confidence to go ahead. But I think this does the conversation will determine actually how you feel or how to trust the facilitator. You know it is interesting and important because you touch upon also the psychology or the notion of care and well-being. So what are the conditions you propose to reassure parents, but I understand also the comment on being willing or wanting to focus on an autistic practice so to be kind of isolated and away from anything that could, you know, disturb the very making of an artwork and at the same time being very keen to just spend time with your family and and to navigate these paradox that is very difficult to to navigate probably so I hear you. There are other comments. So, I don't see questions. Anais Gabo is asking if we know of other examples of good practices in other sectors. So I don't know if during the, I'm going back to to the speakers if in your process of designing tools, etc, you went to other fields like sports, academic world, you know, businesses to actually compare contrast or be inspired by what was existing in other fields and try to adapt it or import it in our cultural fields. Louise, you wanted to react on this one. Yeah. In the beginning, I was talking about the Basinger company. And she is the one who's leading the conversation at the moment in the circus in France. And so she's a, she's a tight warrior artist, very high, higher distance. So she's also like a high level sport athlete. So she went to the to search in a sports field. And there is like in France, there is a national center for everything but national center for for high level athletes, and they are they are taken in charge like really globally like food recovery after after giving birth during the pregnancy, mental sport, etc, etc. And it was like kind of raising awareness awareness for her that we are at this at this level, and we don't have almost anything of this. So this is also a place where I think we will have to to go a bit deeper and to have exchanges because, for example, for circus artists, there is a high intensity of physical things. And this is maybe we are going to deep into to dig into this field. That's interesting how the athletes have access to very special conditions and athletes from the arts don't yet. Let's put it this way. The ballet, so the big ballet companies have have physiotherapists and have rehabilitation kind of onsite and sports science, you know, like you say has has made huge progress. And one of the things that we've just been looking at in a report that's coming out shortly is about dancers and you're saying about the physical recovery of dancers. So there's, there's a lot of study about the impact of pregnancy on the body. And there's a lot of study of kind of ballet dancers, but there's and a lot of sports science but there's nothing where these two kind of come together. And what you see there is a is a huge risk of injury and a sort of self a self defined to work plan that that isn't founded in science. The science is there, but it's not accessible. And maybe and there is a need for more research specifically around those disciplines in the same way that the husband, you know, in sports. You know, it is very interesting also how and I guess everybody tries to find solution. As you said, sometimes in an emergency response or trusting individuals to come with a plan, which is not a given I mean you know to come with a full plan and to have the distance and knowledge and everything to be able to propose something coherent consistent and etc. So I hear also the growing part of each organization would be also to be able to share examples of practices. As part of us EU networks and I'm thinking, all these EU networks from itm for performing arts or circus try out for circus in street arts, European theater convention for theater, how these sectorial networks also could include these theme as a working and a conversation among organizers and stakeholders in their respective fields and make sure in a way everybody can raise awareness of the conditions. I think it's also because you bring some national examples that to be able to access the information around the legal aspect of it would also be helpful. I guess the National Center for theater street arts and circus have published a first guide on the on the matter listing all the legal issues or the legal help you could find the, you know, from different, you know, public funding or private bodies being able to support parenting. And I guess this is also something that is useful to access, you know, work or legal, you know, legal frameworks and employers regulations and etc. I mean to have this information accessible. And I guess I mean we are here in countries where this might be easy but I have in mind many countries that maybe don't have the same, you know, access to information. I'm just gonna maybe conclude now because I see it's almost time. I see also that they are comments very interesting comments in the chat with links shared examples shared so we will make sure that after this webinar will publish a resource, an info page where we will share the links. And we will make sure that this webinar is is available online. It will appear, of course, at our partner or round TV, but it will also be available from on the move website. And on the move YouTube channel. So at least you can forward it, share it. I saw that one of the suggestion was to share it with arts councils, offices and funding bodies, which is a great, a great proposal. But at least this video or this recording can can be circulated further. The last maybe points I would like to share with you is that in a couple of months, because we are continuing to work on this topic we aim at publishing a very short report on parenting care and cultural mobility. So try to summarize the many testimonies we collected but also today's conversation and further research desk research will be doing in the coming weeks. So before the summer you will have like a short publication and hopefully it will, you know, serve in whatever context to continue the conversation with your local national authorities, EU colleagues, international arts organizations, etc. I'm going to take the time to thank each of the three panelists, thank you very much, with Michelle Cassie and Emeka for contributing so brilliantly to the conversation, sharing your personal experience but also the, you know, the achievements that you had across there, you know, in the last years and also to share the, you know, the toolkits that you had, the bag of tricks you created along the year but also to share the philosophy, the values or principles that we should be, you know, reflecting upon and continue to work on. So thank you to my colleagues, Marie LeSour, Cathy Watts, Jess Partridge, and to our live captioner today who was typing like crazy everything we said. So I want to thank you in the chat you will find both a link towards a quick, very quick evaluation form that we would, you know, love you to fill in, it's just five or six questions so it's very easy and very quick, but it will help us and inform us for the next webinars. And of course I can only encourage you to register to subscribe to the on the movie as letters, especially if you're interested in receiving open calls for residencies for festivals, etc. And to, to see the many, many, many, you know, information and resources we circulate around. Thank you very much to everybody. Thank you.