 Hello everyone welcome back to Mind Pump in the first half of this episode we talk about how using isometrics can improve the mind to muscle connection, increase strength and even pack on muscle. After that we had some fun conversations about a variety of other topics so you'll want to stick around for that. In the second half of the show we coach four live callers on questions such as what will happen to my body if I take a week off of working out and don't hit my protein targets? Will I wither away? One of my pecs is smaller than the other. How can I balance them out? What's the best type of cardio to build muscle? Alright everyone enjoy the show. Isometrics are a game changer. It's too bad most people don't do them. They build tremendous strength in muscle and they don't cause a lot of damage so it's really easy to add to your workout to accelerate your gains. Totally take advantage of them. I've never heard of isometrics. Justin tell me all about it. I wish somebody told me about it. I know. You know what? It's starting to. It's starting to. I think Justin did it. I tried really hard to get it into the public's knowledge. It's got to be one of the, it's still, even though it's getting more popular, it's one of the most underutilized techniques. Why do you think that is? In fitness things tend to fall in at a favor. It's weird right? It's hard to punish yourself with isometrics that's why. It may be. It doesn't look cool on video. It doesn't look cool. It's hard. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't feel like you're doing much, you know, except for making it tough and struggling. Yeah. It doesn't make for good Instagram posts. No. Yeah. No. And I think. All the grimace, none of the sexy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's, I think it's hard to punish yourself. I think it's one of those things where exercises turn into that, you know, beat yourself up and who can, who can withstand the most. I don't think that isometrics do a good job. Well, here's some easy ways that somebody could apply isometrics if you're new to them is just take a lift and pause it for five to 10 seconds in a, in a portion of the rep. That's all. That's one way to use it. One way to use it. That's actually one of my favorite ways to use it. That or like squeezing at the end of a rep. Yeah. I like that. Yeah. You know, whatever exercise you're doing. So like a shortened portion, right? Mm-hmm. But I do like to hold. I do it typically in the stretch position because that's where I'm the weakest. I think like most people, but I, you know, I did them today. I did some squats, held the bottom for eight to 10 seconds. And it's just, you could feel it. It really feels good. And when I, when I use them consistently, I see really good strength gains, but more than that, it's really protective. That's what I noticed. It's really protective on my joints. Cause when you're holding a position, you're really focused on maintaining good technique position, making sure everything's in the groove. So then what happens is you strengthen that good position. You actually make it a stronger position for yourself so that when you're going heavy or hard or fatiguing, your body will revert to this position you're strong in. So it makes things a lot safer. Well, and I noticed too, if I've been working with the barbell quite, quite a bit and now I want to transition and do more unilateral stuff or, you know, especially anything in a split stance. Like the first thing I do is focus on isometrics. So I'll slow down and do what you're talking about in terms of like getting to the bottom portion and hold it because just that balance and that transfer, it takes a while to, to react properly to that. So to, you know, start it off and like really kind of connect to, to that balance and get that all situated. Isometrics are perfect for that. Now as a, as a trainer, I felt like I used this a lot with clients, but I didn't use it with myself as same, you know, it was like such a great tool. If you're a trainer for like advanced age clients or someone who's really decondition, you know, before you take a risk and like adding more load when they're still learning the mechanics down. Like what a great way to progressively overload their body without just making it harder with more weight. You know, it's funny too. I'm wondering if this was true for you too, Adam. I didn't necessarily, because I did use them with clients a lot. I didn't necessarily know that I was doing isometrics really was a way to get their form better. You know what I mean? So I'd have them pause just to perfect, you know, oh wait, move your knee this way, hold this position. This is what good technique feels like. So it wasn't like I use them like I do now intentionally with understanding the real value of isometrics. It's really about correcting form. But I mean, I've said this, I mean, how many times have we said this? Trainers are always better with their clients than they are with themselves. Way more objective, right? It's like I wish I could, if I went back, I wish I just took my own advice. So I would have gotten so, so much further. Well, there's a lot of things I think is trainers you think that are so basic and fundamental and you're beyond that. Such a terrible trap. But it's true though, right? It's like isometrics. Come on. That's like for my old clients. I'm so much more advanced than that. So stupid. Do you guys have any favorite isometric like holds or positions or exercises or ways to use them? Well, like you're talking about pause squat. Like I think for me, it's all those little micro adjustments as you're like trying to brace and squeeze and hold, not just trying to light everything up and get the muscle response. It's mainly like, okay, where do I feel any instability? Where do I feel like I need to get stronger and being able to hold and sustain this position? A lot of times, you know, it surprises you, like, you know, sometimes too, like my grip might be an issue that I'm not addressing or, you know, a slight shift, a slight asymmetrical shift that I have to correct and adjust. So I just like like compound lifts like that to slow it way down and then just feel my, how my body is reacting. I have three favorites that come to mind. And they're probably not what you guys would think. Top of a seated calf raise, top of a shoulder press and then a seated row. And I just think... Oh, those are all good actually. I like those too. The reason why I think I like those so much, okay, the seated row is obviously countering what most people struggle with is the forward shoulders. That's a good call. And learning to really connect to those back muscles. I think that's just, I think it's so important. And you can intensify the shit out of that position. Yes. And I just think that it adds so much value. It also helps reinforce the ability to do that like naturally and that's what's wrong with a lot of people's postures is they don't pull the shoulder blades back. The full extension in the shoulder press. I think that's, we just, we don't fully extend our arms that much. So to create this isometric hold at the top of a shoulder press, I think it just kind of wakes up all the entire shoulder like that, gets me comfortable with extending my arms above my head. And then the calf one was one that came for me later. And I want to give the credit to, I think it was Ben Pakolsky, who I heard talk about, you know, weak muscle groups that you have a hard time developing. And that many times it is the connection at the, the shortened position of a muscle. Totally. And so, I mean, what went off for me when he said that was okay, calves have always been a real challenge for me. And so have I ever trained in this position? I actually, to this day, you know, I'm very inconsistent with training my calves. I'm very consistent with isometric calf holds in the shower. I've like, I'm serious. And I, and I, and I attribute that to the, the, my calves being really high. That's my picture right now. I mean, I like because the, the tiles on my, on my shower, I actually spread, spread my toes. And I do the, what's the one where you pretend like you're, you're picking up like a ball with short foot. Yeah. I do short foot in there. And then I do, it is, and I guess I, I think it's the, like the floor is like kind of soapy and some of that. So it allows me to kind of like spread it and grip. So I do that. And I do isometric. Adam on his toes. I do. It's such a great. And I, well, okay. So I applied it first to obviously doing, doing seated calf raises and standing calf raises. And I felt like I noticed a, a big difference when I was incorporating that into my calf training. And so it's been an easy thing that I can, I mean, we always talk about this, right? Things that are least resisting or ways to incorporate little habits into our life. Cause you can do them so frequently. That's right. It's so, I shower twice a day every day. If I just make a habit of doing this isometric hold, I feel like I've maintained some size on my calves that normally I would not had I not been doing that. It's an easy thing for me. So those are my three. You know, okay. So what's interesting about the calf raise one, the seated one especially is that it's a weird position most of us don't ever get to the top of. And what you'll find, cause I do that too, what I found was is that I feel like I'm at the top of the movement, but as I practice, I can actually get further and further up. Yes. So then you know, like, Oh, I'm developing a new connection. So I share one with you the top of the shoulder press. I love that. Cause I hold a barbell at the top, pack my shoulders, really fully extend my arms. I get real good carry over there. The bottom of a squat, my favorite. Get to the bottom, make sure I'm in good position, stay real tight, squeeze the upper back. That's one of my favorites. And then a bench press at the bottom, like literally just touching my chest, but the bars basically supported by my body. I really liked the way those feel and how they contribute to the rest of my training. One, two, I would add, and I used to do this with my clients a lot that had a hard time activating their chest was, you know, with the cable machine and just going through a fly and like just a single arm fly and really focusing on holding that without rotating. So that being one factor is the anti-rotational aspect of that. But then also to that tension that's pulling them that they're resisting. One of my favorite exercises to do is an alternating fly with an isometric hold. So exactly what you're saying in a split stance in a contracted position. And then I open up and the right arm is keeping the isometric hold. And then I come over and then I alternate the other side and then it gets a hold. I love that exercise. You gotta go light. I love that exercise. Oh boy. The black Friday sale. We do this once a year. Check this out. Every single maps fitness product, every workout program, every single one, 60% off. That's crazy. We never do this once a year. This sale ends on the 27th. Now to celebrate, I'm going to give one of you free access to the Super Bundle. This Super Bundle contains maps, maps metabolic, maps performance, maps aesthetic, maps prime, and more. I think there's more programs. It's our biggest bundle. One of you will win it for free, but you gotta do this. Leave a comment in the first 24 hours that we drop this episode. Subscribe to this channel. Turn on notifications. Do all those things. And if we declare you the winner, we will let you know in the comment section. And boom, you'll win. Now everybody else, 60% off and you're not limited to how many programs you can get. So if you've been waiting, now's the time to act. Go to mapsfitnessproducts.com. Use the code blackfriday for the 60% off discount. Again, this ends on the 27th. This is the Black Friday sale. All right. Here comes the show. Anyway, so I got into it. I got into one of those conversations. You're going to conversation with your wife where she just, you're like, ah, I said the wrong thing. You just want to moonwalk your way out. Yeah, dude. So we're sitting on the couch. And yeah, I mean, my wife is just, she's a stunning woman. She's gorgeous. And she knows I think that I feel that way about her. Here comes the shit sandwich. Bro. Here it comes, bro. Set the table, dude. Come on. So we're sitting there on the couch, right? Now she's like nine months pregnant. Like due date is around the corner. Super uncomfortable, I feel for her, right? So anybody who's ever been pregnant, she's just, or if you've had a wife or partner that's pregnant, you see it's just, you're super uncomfortable. So she's hurting. She can't lay down a particular way. She's kind of feeling kind of crappy. And she makes a comment about how she looks. She's like, oh, I'm so big right now, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, you're like, I think you're stunning. I think you're so, you know, so beautiful or whatever. And she goes, yeah, but am I objectively attractive? And I said, honey, to me, you're gorgeous. That was the mistake. I said, to me. Oh, because you said to me. Yeah, dude. I said, honey, to me. It's a trap. Yeah. Honey, to me, you're gorgeous. Just to me? Everybody else thinks I'm ugly? I'm running outside, dude. She's hella quiet, right? She's hella quiet. We're watching TV. She's like, look, I said the wrong, I said the wrong thing. She took it the wrong way. So I'm like, babe, what do you just like, but not objectively. I'm like, no, no, no, no, you don't understand. I said, and I just dug a hole, right. I just kept digging. I said, honey, one day you're going to be 80 years old and I'm always going to find you attractive. She's like, oh, so it's like that right now? Is that what you're doing? I'm like, all right. We're just going to stop the camera. Just quit while your head. I'm just changing the channel, trying to put it on something. I hate those conversations. You know what is everybody doing. We're coming up on the holidays and stuff like that. What's everybody doing for Thanksgiving and everything like that? What's everyone's plan? Well, we're probably not going anywhere. Yeah. So are you hunkering down and no family too? Yeah, probably not. Get your own turkey in the oven. So it'll just be your immediate family? Is that the plan? Yeah. Not even mom and dad? No, no, maybe not. Everybody's getting colds and sick and all that stuff. And the baby will be like a week or two old by that point. So you got to kind of stay away, I guess. Now, will that be the first time for you? That's got to be new for you. No, we did that with, remember with, Relius was born right around the same time. Oh, so you guys did Thanksgiving by yourself? Yeah, so what we did is they, people, you know, I think my parents came and they brought us food last Thanksgiving and we kind of were the last time. Oh my God, Katrina's finally going to freak out. They lose their minds. Yeah, they lose their minds. Well, my family too. That's not even a possibility. I have to play, you know, going. Yeah, I don't know how you, because I know your family is like her family and that would be like unacceptable. There was a big deal for us going up because we're going up to the truckie house and, you know, two of the family members have dogs and just there's no dogs in the house. That's part of the rule. And so there was like this, this big stink. Like this was leading up. We had planned this for months or whatever. And then the two family members that had the dogs that weren't really like doing anything about it. Like Katrina's like, what are we going to do? I said, we're fucking going no matter what. I said, I hope your family comes. I hope everybody shows up there. I don't give a shit if it's the three of us. We're going up there. That's the plan. And I can't, we can't play this game that when, you know, oh, it doesn't work out for two people. So then we all default back to the same house at home. Like, no, like half of why we're getting properties like this is so for holidays, we can go. Her family's just like mine. Oh my God. When I hear your stories, it helps me because I can see. I know, because you can understand just good side. I totally know. I know that it's good for you because it's good for Katrina to hear the other side too. Cause she's, she thinks that I'm so weird about that stuff. And I'm like, no, it's like, but I, you know, I think she's really come around and realized that. Like I said, cause she's on the same page as I am as far as like kind of our goals, right? Like in one of the goals, especially with this, what we're doing on the real estate side is man, one of the things I look most forward to with you guys is having all these incredible properties all over the country in areas that are, we all desire to go. And to me, and obviously we work all the time. So the only time that we're going to be able to use those things is probably holiday. And so what I envision in the future is that, you know, we're all kind of rotating on different ones. Like, oh, Justin's over at the truckie house. Now I'm going to go over to the Florida place. Oh, Sal's over at the floor. I'm going to go to the Utah place. And we are visiting these amazing places and bringing our families to enjoy it. And I'm like, I'm not going to stop that train. Like that's the vision. That's where we're heading. And I sure hope the family can get on board and figure their shit out because they ain't going to pay for nothing. They just got to show up. And we're not going to. So you'll cover it, you'll do the whole thing. Yeah, I mean, that's, you got to get there. I mean, I'm not going to put your gas in your cars about that. Like you should be able to drive up to, you know, a three hour driver or whatever. See, I got the opposite problem. So we're going to go ahead, you know, of you guys and try and do it like a bit early, like week early. And like, so my parents are like opportunists. You know, like they smell like an opportunity to like go stay somewhere. And they're like, oh yeah, cool. Like, so we'll be up there. I'm like, oh, here's the date we're all going to go. Like, I'm going to make sure that we get everything right. Oh yeah, like we can be there three days early. You know, no problem. Like they want to like already be there. It likes, I'm like, no, you don't go before the host. Like you're the guests, like calm the fuck down. Like you guys stay there. We'll let you know, you know, when it's appropriate to come. But they do that every time, you know, it's cool about, it's hilarious owning a property with you guys. Is it so we can just blame each other. Yeah. Oh, mom, I do, I do that every time. I mean, that's how I got out of the pet thing. It was yoga naked outside and all. You don't want to go. Oh, it's not me. It's Doug. You know, Doug wants to go pet. It wasn't for him. Yeah, it wasn't for Doug. That's how we have a big event. It's a Doug hate. They're going to go up to it and try to get to it. You know, he's like, put the butt. Yeah, but you know, he'll have deep balls and be like, what's Adam's idea? That was just play that old game. You know what I'm saying? Dude, it's just, it's all family stuff. But you know, you got families that love each other. That's, I mean, that's it. It's just that's the best. That has to be the, I would think that has to be the one of if not the most challenging things for all relationships, right? You tend to probably attract someone. Like the thing that I always remind Katrina and the thing that you always have to, I think, Sal, you have to remember too is that like you and Katrina could never work. You guys would be at odds with the families because it would be like, whose family are we going to go to? Oh, you wouldn't, you just negotiate it. Cause when I was my, you know, when I was married before my first wife, her family was like that. So maybe not as much as mine, but still she had decent amount of family. So we would just schedule it out. So one year it's this way, one year it's this way. You have to schedule it out that way. So I'm sure they don't like that. But see, but well, no, they're okay. See, here's the challenge. The challenge is if, if let's say Katrina's family knows you're doing a bit, you have a big family yourself and you're doing a big thing with your family, they're more likely to be like, that's cool versus, no, we're just going to do something by ourselves. Then they'll be like, what do you mean by yourself? Yeah. I bet you that would be a bigger problem. That's a good point. I think that is a good point. Like if I, if we did, cause we've done years before where Katrina did do something with my family and it was like, oh, we're going to go do Adam's family. It was like the first time in like five years. Because it's family, right? Yeah. But if I were to, if I were to talk to Katrina, like, hey, let's go to Hawaii. Just the three of us. Everyone's going to think you're so weird. Oh my God, bro. Oh, it'd be like the end of the world. Oh yeah. Jesus. I love it so much. I can't stand to do the dress. It makes me laugh. Well, cause you know, cause you're married to me. You're married to me. I don't, Jessica, she's just like me when it comes to that stuff. Yeah, I guess you're right. She is, bro. I've heard her. I'm like, I totally get it. She's on the same page as, you know, and I think that the cool part is that evolves and changes. How many years now are you and Jessica? You guys are five? We're together? Yeah. No, almost seven. God damn, it's always seven. I know, right? So I, I mean, I see it. I see, and I even feel the, feel the difference, you know, 12 years later. Like it's, I mean, it takes time because I You know, that's every family though. You just got to learn each other's families. You got to learn each other's, you know, the things that are important, not important. And you end up negotiating and working together. It's just, that's every family. It's just, you guys wrestle over with your guys' two families? Yeah, I mean, we, we kind of worked through and like scheduling helped a lot and all that. But yeah, Courtney grew up in a lot bigger family than me, but has kind of a similar mentality as me in terms of like, yes, we go to all the things cause like there's no shortage of birthdays, you know, on that side of the family. So I'm like constantly having to come over the hill, but over the years I've had to really be like, okay, we like, we do this for every single kid. Like we got to kind of like group them together, you know, like let's make this a little bit more like attainable. Well, you guys are bouncing for Christmas, right? So I mean, the fact that, and is that, and is that no struggle with you or her? Like you both, you two are on the same page with them. So yeah, we, they're both on escape. We, we both, yeah, that's kind of like, exactly. I think the four Christmases right away with that. She's, she's on board with me. I mean, we kind of have our, we can do family in a certain amount of time. And then it's like, dude, let's get out of here. Like it just, it's a lot. It's a lot of different opinions and things. It's just too much, you know? So we're like, we gotta get her. So yeah, I think we probably pissed off her family more than mine. I know my mom's a little late to like, you know, say how she really feels till after we probably come back. So I'm sure we'll get it. She holds it in. Yeah, she holds it in. I wonder where I get that from. Did she do the passive wrestler stuff? Oh yeah. Dude, that's, that's my family. Jessica has a tough time with it too. Cause we'll go visit my parents. And they're like little comments. We'll go visit my parents. And I'm like, oh my God, it's so good to see you. You guys never come over. That's my mom. Like ever. We were just at my mom's like literally like two weeks ago and we hadn't been there forever since that. And we were at her place. It's her place that she's moved into. I've already actually been to her place now twice, but she was making a comment cause I made a comment on like a painting. So I was like, oh, that's a really cool painting. Where'd you get? When did you guys get that? Well, we've always had that. You just, you don't come around. Yeah, just, oh, opportunity for like really? Like, first of all, I've been here more times than you've been to my house. And they like cut me some slack, dude. Like seriously. I got to the point where Oh, you probably didn't see it. Cause there's an, you know, it's always been in my bedroom. It's just, it's just a part of it. You know, so I just like, all right. I'll just ignore all these little comments, you know, unless I'm in a bad mood. Well, it doesn't, it doesn't seem to probably bother. Like Katrina doesn't get his bothered by it. So it probably doesn't, cause you guys are used to it. It's your family where it really bothers the partner. Like, I know, I'm sure it bothers you. Of course. Yeah, because when it's your family, you know, and you're already like, oh, that's just them. They're like that. Yeah, yeah. Right now they have the whole, so the, the, the baby of the family, he is getting married in, I want to say March in Texas. And he, he went out to Texas. He took a job out there like a year and a year ago, a year and a half ago, and he met a girl and he like fell in love with her and her family. And everybody's freaking freaking out cause he's not, he's not even having the wedding over here. He's like, I love Texas, Texas is my family now. And like the family is like, bro, it's like drama. Family meeting. Oh yeah. Family meeting. Registry family meeting. Yes, dude. I'm like, dude, just be happy for the kid. You know what I'm saying? Like, so he calls me all the time now cause he gets it. He's just like, like, bro, I'm happy for you. I'm glad for you. You'll still make it over here. He's like, oh man, I just, I love it here. You're just happy you're not the only one? Yeah. Keep pissing everybody off and forget about me. This A, A, that's what they have, they have it figured out in the South and the cousins get married together. You don't have to worry about that. Yeah. Oh, bro. Yeah, that's, that's how they work it out. Doug, I see you typed up and highlighted on the TV that we have a Black Friday apparel salad. We never talk about anything when it comes to the apparel salad. Oh, we do have a business. Bro, it's up to 70% off select items and then all equipment. People don't know this, we sell exercise equipment like small stuff. Is that, is this a compliment or a maps program? Is this like our annual clearing out sales? Is that what's going on? I think so. Jerry typed that up. I didn't type it up. That was so terrible. We should ask the owners. Yeah. Yeah. So this is, so this is happening Friday, November 25th. 70% off select items and equipment is 30% off. So this includes grip trainers and suspension trainers. Suspension trainers, yeah. What do you guys anticipate for Black Friday this year? Just in general, you think that like, as far as consumers and stuff like that, I mean, one of the things that I find fascinating. Oh, this is good. I have some speculations. I wonder if it's going to be more because of inflation, because of the fact that they're getting a deal. Oh, that's an interesting theory. I think more. Oh, you think too. Wow. You know why? Why? Because people are going to save money at other times and then try to take advantage of sales. They'll justify it right now. Yeah, because it's cheap. Interesting. I think that's my thought. That sounds like a reasonable prediction. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. Hard to say. Yeah, it is hard to say, because here's the thing, like even with inflation going, the direction it's going, even with all these massive layoffs with tech, the spending hasn't really gone down, right? We had growth in GDP. So we're heading the other direction. And it's, people are spending, but what's scary is like, we're at like. Spending habits ever, I swear to God. Americans have the worst spending habits ever. You see what it is? Do you see what the credit card debt is? It's like all-time historical bias, like crazy. So, and the only thing that I can think of, because I remember this part, this time in my life, I remember being about 25 years old. I had bought my house when I was 20. So I had to buy this time by four or five years and I was riding that wave before the 08 crash, right? So I bought my house, I can, I want to say, oh, two, oh, threeish somewhere around that range. So I got to ride the wave up. And I remember the way I felt when, you know, houses in my neighborhood were selling for almost two X what I bought my house for. Like the way I was using my credit card and stuff like that was always this added, I always had this added to like, I mean, I really have like 300K in my savings. You know what I'm saying? So like what's the big deal about dropping 20K on the credit card? Yeah, so I have to think that that's part of what's going on right now is that there's a lot of people that have bought houses, say five, six or more years ago, that are sitting on hundreds of thousands of dollars in equity, so it's real easy to justify the $100,000 whip, or- I also think we've had 10 years of economic growth. So you have a lot of habits that are hard to break. You know how hard it is to get, so I think about this way, it's as hard to change somebody's spending habits, like fundamental spending habits, as it is to get them to change their diet. Literally, it's just as hard. So people typically don't make changes unless they're forced. Like shit really hits the fan. So in other words, they're not like looking ahead. You know what I mean? They're like, well, we're kind of, we're okay. Or rather than being like, oh shit, it's going in the wrong direction, we should be more careful. And that's evidenced by this massive credit card debt. Like people are not cutting, they want to keep spending like they were before. Wonder how long it's gonna take before the, before the, was it the last straw? Well, we're seeing things, we are seeing things. Like so, interesting, I had put it in the notes, but Doug didn't want to put my notes out there for some reason. He's also boring. It was in the Airbnb you saw it because I put it in the thread about Airbnb. So Airbnb is down 50% in occupancy right now. Oh, okay. So you are starting to see some stuff. So yeah, so people are cutting back. I mean, also gonna be interesting to see how that impacts the housing market. A lot of people bought properties with, based on the valuation of their occupancy being at say 70%. And so a lot of those proformas are gonna be off now. People are not gonna, if that comes way back, then you have areas. I mean, and this is an area that I think will affect us with what you're talking about the Utah property. Now what I hope our saving grace is, I was explaining this to Katrina when she was like, are you worried? I said, well, the reason why I'm not is because we were kind of going after a different demographic in the first place, right? So in our neighborhood in Utah, there's probably as far as I'm aware of at least 10 to 15 other like identical short-term rental properties, very competitive. They're all really nice. They all look about the same. They're all very similar in square footage, like in our neighborhood and priced very similar. Well, we weren't even looking at them as a way to compare like what we were doing. We are going after this whole, you know, cold plunge sonnets. I mean, there's like a quarter million dollars worth of stuff going into our- It's a different experience. It is a different experience. Now, what sucks is what we thought we might be able to get as a premium for, you know, some time is may not happen, but what it will do is it will give us leverage to out-compete any of our neighbors. So, you know, if push comes to shove, all we have to be is competitive in price. And there's no reason why we shouldn't win the occupancy game in our neighborhood always because of what the amenities that we put in there. So there is some, you know, some light at the end of the tunnel for us with that, but I do think that it's going to take a big hit. I think so, but I think what's, because I remember after O-8, O-8 was bad. It was really bad. A lot of people did very poorly on O-8. However, I remember people, because I had family members that work in real estate were already really established. So the market took a hit. All the okay real estate agents were gone, but the really, really good ones, I mean, I had family members are like, oh, I got people coming in, buying these houses cash, hand over fist. So there's like that upper, you know, kind of income type people or whatever that when shit goes down, they go in and they make big purchases. I remember that. Do you guys remember that after O-8 with people buying houses cash? Oh, well, I mean, we'll see that again. Because they're like, oh, the prices are down. Let's just buy them all. Yeah, we'll see that again. I mean, I think that's the move for us is to pay close attention to when that starts to happen because there's going to be a, there's going to be a time though in between that. Right? So we're, we're at the- Where you got to kind of wait? Yeah, we are the top of, I think, everybody coming in. I mean, I think Patrick Bed-David gave really good advice. I think Chris brought hit, brought that advice up in the talk that we had on the live, just that if you were going to go in, whether it be an investment or the house you're going to live in and make an offer today on something you really like, you should offer it at 20 to 30% less of what it's, what they're asking for right now. And just- Because you might get it. Yeah, you might get it. And if you, and if you do get it, you're basically pricing in what a lot of people are starting to predict is going to happen over the next year. Oh, I see what you're saying. Yeah. So you're, so you'll kind of protect it for the next year. Yeah, you protect yourself from the job. You go, oh, this house, I love this house. I think it's a relatively fair price where it's at. I'm going to offer 20% underneath. That way when the- So that when everything goes down over the next year or so. That's smart. Yeah, I'm at least, I'm not like negative big time. And so then you're okay. And if all the numbers still work out for that price. And that's, and so that's kind of how I would treat it for us. Like if we're looking at property, I still would be looking now. And if we fell in love with something, it'd be like, okay, I love it, but let's offer 15, 20, 30% under what it's asking and then see what happens. That's the move until then. All right. So I'm going to move towards nutrition for a second. Cause I read this very well read article that made some really good points on grass fed meat. Okay. So the article essentially was, you know, is grass fed meat worth the investment? Or is this something that you should focus on? And what the article said, and I like it because it takes the position, it's very objective. It takes a similar position to the like organic conversation with people like, should I go organic? And they say, well, some fruits and vegetables have much higher pesticide loads than others. For example, fruit that you eat the skin versus fruits that you peel because the pesticides on like a avocado, you could take off the rind or whatever you're not going to get or a banana, right? So they were, he was talking about, or this person was talking about grass fed meat and said, the biggest differences in the meat are found in the fat. So grass fed versus conventional meat, where you'll notice the differences is the fat is in the fat, the fatty acid profile. It changes the profile completely, right? Well, not completely, but significant, like enough to where it's measurable. And if you eat a lot of this meat, it makes a big difference. And so he said, if you're going to go grass fed and you're also trying to save money, it's the fatty cuts of meat where you're going to get the benefit. Cause that's where you see the difference in the omega three versus omega six fatty acids and so on. Now there's some nutrient differences as well, but it's the fatty cuts of meat that make the biggest difference. So I thought that was, it's an important thing to communicate to people who are trying to- So are you saying that like, even like, if you were to compare, like if I'm going to do a cut, like a rib eye, it makes more sense than if I was doing a cut like a filet mignon? Yes, 100%. Because the fat is where you see the difference. Otherwise it's not a huge difference. Oh, interesting, okay. And then it also said, if you eat a lot of red meat, like I probably close to a pound of red meat a day. So it makes sense for me to go- That's easier too to get by. Cause sometimes it's tough, you know, like the grass fed, like that's sort of like some of the feedback is like, you know. It's leaner. Yeah, it's a bit leaner. And so to go more into the, you know, fattier cuts, like that's usually what I did anyways, cause it tasted better. Well, my discipline is this. When I'm home, I'm cooking my butcher box stuff. When I'm out to eat, I enjoy, I enjoy a, you know, fatty, chemicaled up steak. That's how I do it. Well, I mean, you know, they don't really have grass fed at restaurants, do they? It's sometimes they do. Some places, some places. Yeah, some places. And I'm like you, I'm going to eat out. Yeah. Cause I don't want to worry about it. When I'm going to eat out, I don't- Give me the engineered one. Yeah, exactly. Give me the one you've grain fed that cow up. Speaking of ribeye. I saw I just belly for like six months. Speaking of ribeye, Doug, isn't butcher, is butcher box doing the ribeye free ribeyes right now? Yeah, free ribeyes for a year. A year. Plus $10 off. So you sign up for a box and they'll send you a free ribeyes with your box for a year plus $10 off. So that's a huge, huge promotion. Speaking of grass fed meat. Actually this has nothing to do with that. But Led Zeppelin, you know the lead singer? Robert Plant. I found out this really interesting thing about him which I was like- Speaking of grass fed meat. King of transitions right there. What's the- Grass is kind of a plant. Well, he's a piece of meat. I mean, he's a specimen. But so back in the day, they used to wear like really like extravagant kind of clothing and whatnot on stage. And like, you know, and sometimes it was like flashy feminine, like whatever, like they just, like he'd wear robes and all this kind of stuff. Well, I don't know if you guys knew this, but I guess there's this whole thing where he would at the show, like he would meet some girls backstage, whatever, like whoever he basically banged that night, like he would take their clothes and then wear on stage the next show. That's how it worked out. I was like, that makes perfect sense. Cause it didn't, like I was like, where is he finding this outfit? Like it just didn't, it's like totally like too short. Like if you look at all the pictures of him, it's like a nod to the chick. You know what I'm saying? It's like he's wearing some mid-drift thing and then like some robe and some silky and like, dude, he like, I thought that was just like a, I mean, is he a small guy? Like does he like, how does he fit in the same clothes? That's a good, I didn't fit him. That's, that's the whole point is like, it didn't look like it even fit. It was like, what is he doing? That's how he picks the girls. Yeah. Are you a size five? You see your dress real quick? All right. But I thought that made sense. When you become so rich and famous, you do weird shit. Well, you know what? That's like a version, that's a version of what dudes used to do in high school and they get in a fight and then if they won, they would take the guy's hat and wear it to school the next day. Did you guys do that? No, I didn't. Oh yeah. It was like the ultimate like, that's like your trophy that you're just, that's kind of cool actually. It is but I never heard of doing that. That's like the ultimate. It's also messed up. Because then you go to school and everybody knows. Wow. I've never even heard that. Really? That was a thing. That was a thing, dude. Wow. Like you wear the guy's hat. That was a big one. And then you walk around and you wear it all year. You wear a starter jacket? Yeah. Hey, you know what's funny? That's a move, man. Literally, it's a salt and theft. Literally, it's like two felonies. It's double whammy right there. You did two felonies right there. Yeah. Is Robert Plant, is he the one that he was, he used to wear the tight ass pants and all the girls would talk about his whatever? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, that was him. He throws his junk out there. Yeah. The whole audience. See, that's your, that could have been your transition. Speaking of me. Well, that's what I was doing. You helping him out with the transition. I got you, bro. I mean, that's kind of where I was going, but not that specific. So, I appreciate the details. Hey, what did you guys think of that, that docu-series Killer Sally? Oh, that was good, dude. Crazy. Yeah, I remember that. So do I. I remember it. I remember when that was going down. That was crazy news in the bodybuilding. That's when I was all in the bodybuilding magazines. Okay, so that sparked up an interesting conversation with Katrina and I, because she watched it with me. And she's like, so I'm confused, because I feel like I've heard you guys talk about steroids before. And she's like, you know, they really, you know, painted him as this like kind of monstrous guy because all the amounts of steroids he was taking, she goes, I thought you said that it really doesn't do that to you. Let's, let's talk about this. Yeah, so I, and I said, you know, I said, the reason why they did that in court is because there still is this stigma around that. Also, there's still, there still is this stigma around taking testosterone and so it makes you this crazy person or this, this asshole and stuff like that. If you're an asshole, it can make you a bigger, stronger asshole. Is the asshole that's already there? Well, there's two things. One is we don't have studies on the doses that bodybuilders take and how it affects the psyche. We just don't. Number two, it's far more likely to affect the psyche and personality of a woman than it is a man because they're androgens, they're male hormones and it model, literally changes the way the brain functions and looks. So women can often, and I've talked to women who've taken steroids and they'll tell me that their personalities change from going on low doses. They start like objectifying. Dude, the way. Well, just weird. It just changes things. The way they did that doc, like how the first two episodes, they, they tell us. You're on one side? Yeah, you totally are on one side. You're like, damn, she got fucked, man. And you feel hella bad for her. And then they like, all of a sudden. Oh, she's crazy too. Yeah, I'm like, oh, she's hella crazy. You're not alone. One more thing. Now this is something that I want to speculate on. First off, these are doses of antibiotics. We have no studies on there. Super, super high doses. Do androgens affect personality, libido, mood? They definitely do. They definitely do. That's why when you're low, you notice a difference when you're, when you're in the high normal, you feel better. So at super high levels, there's gotta be some changes. I think if you're borderline, that's where you get some problems. So if you're, and think about the kind of person that obsesses so hard about being a bodybuilder, they're willing to live super poor like they did. This is the point I made to Katrina. I said, you take somebody who is probably already a very insecure person and you hop them up on a bunch of drugs like that. What's probably a bigger correlation is less to do with the steroids and more to do with the insecurity. It's all of them. A massively insecure person like that is more likely to hit a woman and a woman is more likely to hit a man if you're massively insecure like that. So I'm like, if you take that person who's been building this shell to protect their insecurities their entire life, then you hop them up all kinds of steroids and then you put them in a relationship that's toxic and unhealthy. I'm like, yeah, I mean, that could possibly happen. But I'm like, I was explaining to her, I'm like, imagine if your hormone levels were all off and you had to have a hysterectomy and you went through all the stuff that like my mom went through. I said, you probably would definitely feel it and maybe you'd be more irritable but do you think you would also shoot me with a shotgun because of that? Like, no, you wouldn't. Because you're not the type of person that would do that. Yeah, so I think that they were already border. You know what I mean? I feel like they were already kind of border. She's obviously obsessive. She's obviously got aggression issues. Then you give her a ton of steroids and then exactly what you said. Plus, pre-contest, they're dieting, they're irritable at the same time. You know how it is when you're dieting for a show. Now imagine your spouse is also dieting for a show and you have kids and you're trying to make bills. It's a bad combination. Didn't they also say that he was like sexually abused, grown up and all that too? Yeah, they've got lots of issues. That's what I mean. They're all feeding into that. Again, so all those things connect to being an abusive person more than the elevated level of testosterone. And then you add all that and then you throw a bunch of testosterone on it. Then you're like, you know what? It also brought up a conversation for her and I was, you know, when I got into the space, so I was totally unaware of like the muscle worship. Oh yeah. And I remember getting solicited for that and not thinking it was like a real thing at first. And then realizing like, oh, this is like a, people were, when I was doing a lot of posts of like my body, like changing and stuff like that. And I was posting all the time on it, like Instagram, that I was getting all- Didn't you get invited down to some expensive party that you were supposed to, you were gonna like hand out drinks and like your underwear? Yes, yes. And every time I- They were gonna give you a lot of money, right? Yeah, it was a lot. It was like 10,000 to go there and then- And all you have to do is serve drinks. Yeah, yeah. But then what happens is this. So that's, I would get solicited by these guys like this where it would be like, oh, these parties or these things that they'd offered. And then as I like was intrigued cause they would present it in a way where I'm like, oh, fucking shirt off. Like I'm already posting with my shirt off. And you're confident? Yeah, I'm like, what? Every dude says something to me who cares. Yeah, yeah. So I'm not even thinking like that. And I'm like, and then the kind of money they were offering, I'm like, okay, I'm intrigued. Tell me more. And then as they tell you more, you're so, well, you know, you might be this, might happen and this and that happens. So are you comfortable with that? And then- You don't care if they do this. Yeah, you start hearing some of that. You're like, whoa, wait a second. You know, and then it started, then it became very obviously after I had- Adam's like, I don't know, $20, $20. Maybe I'll do it. I mean, good things were going all right for me. Maybe it wouldn't. I told Katrina, I mean, it's a, you know, in with- It's a weird world. It is a very- It is a weird, cause you have a bunch of insecure people that's largely makes up the bodybuilding space. Sorry. They all, they're all body, super body focused. They're so obsessed with what they're doing that they'll do anything to be able to do it. So that means if they, you know, need to do things that are a little questionable, a lot of them may do it. So you, you mix that in. Well, it's also- And you get a lot of these guys that get convinced and girls that- It's expensive. Muscular women- Keep it going. Wrestle dudes for money. We'll look, we'll look how it started for her. I mean, she never even had sex with any of them. No, she just wrestled them. Yeah. I mean, kind of hard not, like, think about how broke they were. They were broke. Yeah. They were broke trying to get by and stuff like that. And these dudes are paying her thousands of dollars a week to like put them in a headlock. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Like she's just- I know. And of course it's like sexual. It's like, it is, they're getting off on it, but they're not, they're not having sex with her. Like you could see how that turned to that. I mean, some of the things I got hit up were being offered just, send me a video of you flexing your biceps. Oh. Flexing your chest. I mean, you know what- Like you offered me a couple hundred bucks. Couple hundred bucks. And it was like, you just want me to do a video and be like, flexing. I already have five of those videos on my phone. I'll be sexy. Yeah. You just picture the guy on the other end of that. Oh. That's us. You know what would work? Thank God my pub took off. And you know what would work? If a guy really, I'm going to give somebody, if you're a dude and you want to solicit dudes for flexing, get a girl to ask for the pictures because the dude will give it to them for free. Oh yeah. Well, remember that, remember that, that documentary on all the internet scams that are out there? And that one guy who's like, I could get someone to give me like five grand right now. all you and he would talk about how he would rip all the proof, the, all the pictures from, uh, like a model and build a, and then just like start flirting in the DMs and then get them to buy a plane ticket and pay for their stuff. And then like, like, like that, like, be able to fly out to Dubai. Guys are easy to be a football player that got like wrapped into all of us. So sad. That was, that was, that was, uh, man tight tail. Man tight tail. That was such a, such a sad story, bro. So sad. Such a nice guy that just got totally, bro destroyed his career. I mean, he never, he never came back from that. That, that's, that's all, you know, it's what's so awful about that too, is that that person didn't get hardly anything happened to them. Like there's like, no, but you like literally destroyed that dude's career and live and it was like, oh, you know, it was like a no big deal type of deal. I think it was such bullshit. So do you guys, so looking at that whole case with, uh, with Sally McNeil, I mean, I think although she was aggressive, I think the lawyer, the lawyer, it was Katrina and I said, if the lawyers were flipped, it goes the complete episode. Totally dude. Completely opposite way. Because she was definitely battered woman. I mean, I mean, I know she hit him back. She did a lot of stuff first also, but she was terrified. Dude, the way he was fucking aggressive, broke her face. They're all stuff. Like at some point it's going to be a bit premeditated. Like at some point you're going to be like, I have to kill this dude. Yeah. The next time he does something crazy to me, I'm going to do it. Totally. I mean, the kids said that they, she got 25 years, dude. She should have got five. In my opinion, she's got one to five at the most. So 100% that was a case manipulated 100% by the lawyers. Yep. That lawyer, the lawyer who just had, it was like some up and coming like shark. That saw the, he went after that case. He saw the opportunity to paint in a surgery. He wanted to make a name for himself and he absolutely did. And he destroyed that with cases over right out the gates when he had the forensic person come in and show like how she was shot because she claimed in her original interrogation. He felt like he was coming for her when she shot him. Yeah, coming after her. But what the forensic shows, she'd go all the way back into the other room to get another shotgun shell walked out and shot him when he was on the ground. Like that is what put her away. And people don't understand in situations like that when a person is abused physically, especially a woman, years and years and years and years, they develop this PTSD type mentality, personality. It's not a re, it's like their thought process changes. They, and so it can be a bit premeditative. I mean, she could have poisoned him, in my opinion, not saying that that's not wrong, but I think it should be punished differently. You know what I'm saying? Because she's trying to survive. This is the environment that is a product, byproduct of the environment. Did you know what really took me out is her kids now they're older and they're talking about the case. You could see that the boy, the son who's now an adult man, he was still terrified when he was talking. He was tapping and moving the whole time. Yeah, dude, so traumatized by the whole thing. I mean, that's that's my heart breaks for the UC kid. I hate when I watch stuff like that. It's so weird how it it resurfaces stuff from from my child. Oh, really? Well, I mean, I get emotional and, you know, half of it is because obviously I relive my stuff. But then I also go like that fucking what I went through was nothing compared to that. I mean, nothing. I feel like I see that and I know how traumatizing it was to see shit as a young kid. And then I see something like that. I'm like what mine was like a picnic compared to what the with that those kids saw. Like, could you imagine like seeing that type of abuse and then seeing your mom fucking shoot your dad's face off of the shotgun? Like, oh, my God, it makes me feel so bad. I'm going to take it in a more positive note here about with kids. But my my son is so cute, dude. He's so first off, I know I've been talking about this. His language skills are going are advancing so fast. He keeps saying things that I didn't know that he knew, you know, you know, what certain things were like treasure. And then he'll start stringing sentences together. That's really cool. But he's super affection and he does this thing. He's such my son. He's so my son, right? If I'm holding him, one of it, he has to play with my hair with one of his hands. He does this. Does your boy stuff like that? Yeah, your son's very affectionate, too. He does the best. He does this thing where he does. He does. Remember, I've seen you guys shoot you as pictures. I did. He falls asleep with Katrina like that. He'll lay next to her and he has to like stroke. I love it. Stroke her face to fall asleep. It's like the cutest thing ever. I love it. And when we're watching TV, you both let him watch TV every once in a while and we're sitting there and he has to sit right in my armpit. And then he wants to play with my hand while we're watching it. And I was like, I can't, I can't. It's going to suck when that goes away. Because at some point. I know. He does this. It'd be weird doing that with your teenage son. What's wild is Katrina's mom was telling me, what I always think is neat when you see these patterns that were in you or in her, right, that she had. Like, so her mom would tell me that her, she used to do the same exact thing that he does, which, which is so weird because it's not like it's a learned behavior. She's never, I've never seen her do it because she's an adult. But as a kid, she used to do this where she, and he'll do this. He'll come over and sit like he'll sit in your lap and then he'll just put his arms out like this. And he wants you to like drag your fingers over and he'll just sit there and he'll be playing, you know, playing with his iPad or watching something and doing something. And he just wants you to sit there and drag your fingers back and forth on his forearms. And he'll literally, he'll lay his arm in your lap in order to do that. And so nobody taught him that. Yeah, nobody taught him that. Isn't that weird? It's so weird that they, they, they have that in them, you know? And that was something that Katrina did as a kid. I think that's so interesting. It's funny because like we're not real like massage therapists or anything. Nobody, like in our family, Courtney every now and then will like massage Everett. And he just like, he just is like, oh, amazing. It's so funny. He like requests it now. Like she didn't once and then I was like, oh, you opened up a candle with him. Like he's, he's just like, oh, can I get a massage? One day he'll be doing that to his mom. Yeah. I was like, yeah, you got a reciprocated. You're going to. How, now how old is he right now? Nine. Nine. Yeah. So you got at least a few more years of him. I think you guys are great. Yeah. Well, I mean, I know it's borderline, dude. I like, I'll pick him up and he gets so pumped if I pick him up from school, which always like, I love that. And then he was like holding my hand as I'm like, wow, you still want to hold my hand, dude? Like we're, you know, like I'll take it, you know, but I was surprised that he's still like that. What is it you guys think? Cause there are exceptions to the rule where you see kids that still have like the bond with their, like I remember when I was first talking about, you know, Max and our bond and then, you know, people, oh, enjoy it while it lasts and this and that. And I'd be like, well, it's been lasting this entire time still for me. And then I'd have other people that mess would be like, don't listen to everybody else. My husband and my son are, you know, he's 20 years old and they're still inseparable and they do stuff together and they're like, they love being together. You're always gonna have a good bond with your kid, Adam. That's a hundred percent. The difference is that they become more independent. And so like the sitting on your lap and the bonding changes a little bit at some point it feels like for him, he'll feel like, I'm not gonna sit in someone's lap. Okay, so that's my point though of asking. Cause I feel like I've seen exceptions where that's not true. Like I look at my, I have an uncle who has two daughters and one of the coolest things to watch. And they're, they're on father, daughter is different. Well, no, it is like my sisters will sit on my dad's lap and yeah, I mean, they're, they're 20 years old. They still both rest their heads on their lap in his lap. And he's always, I do that with my mom too. But when my dad would be weird, you know what I mean? Sit on my dad's lap and have him like, Snuggle up. Yeah. So I mean, I, you know, I kiss my dad to say hi and we hug, you know, I'll pull my arm around him. Yeah. But it's different now with my mom, I hug, I kiss her and hug her so much she tries to run away from me. I squeeze her and do the whole thing. And you know, my sisters are like that with my dad. So then the theory is then that as they get older it's the opposite sex, right? So then he will most likely be more attached to her in that area physically when he gets older. And then if I had a daughter it's more likely that the daughter would be. You know how I can tell my dad, so my dad will hug us, you know, he's a hugger and you know, we kiss each other, say hi. But when I know he really wants to like to snuggle he wrestles what he does. He'll grab me and start fucking with me, you know, I'm gonna start wrestling and shit. And I'm like, he just wanna hug me. When he starts laughing, he's like, yeah. But this is better. He's still tough as nails to like dad. It's embarrassing. You're old now, I should be able to do so. Anyway, so eight. So we're supposed to talk about Viori. So I wore one of their newer, I don't know if this is a newer shirt but the material is interesting. You've been shopping quite a bit. What's the deal? Are you out growing all your other stuff? No, I told, I got, pull off the vertical or the horizontal stripes. It makes me look like a deer. I told him, I said, hey, what's the deal with the, how many clothes do you guys send us? Adam and Justin don't want anything, just send me there. Yeah, that's why I haven't got anything. No, it's, it's, it's consistently, you know, I get compliments consistently. And you know what I, you know, it's like, I think under maybe, I don't know if people know this about Viori, but they have a lot of like nicer clothes. Like this isn't necessarily workout clothes, but it's something you would wear to go out. My favorite part about that company and that brand, like, I mean, it's so, it's so cool to, we're going on like five years that we, that we've been with them. Like, and it's funny too, now people, I had someone actually message me just a couple of weeks ago about like, oh my God, you guys are so big now because they saw Viori running an ad for some, just like the company that's been with us for five years now or whatever. So it's cool to see them grow to what they are, but one of my favorite things about them is that you can dress it up or down. That's right. I mean, you can, you put it on with some, like you have it on right now with like some of like this kind of slack type pants and then it dresses up. You could also could have been in your workout pants just 20 minutes ago or shorts and then you could totally work out it because it's breathable and it's comfortable. So you can go either way with it. They do a good job, man. I think they're saying it's funny. I mean, five years ago when we started with them, they were, they've been getting better. Like the way that they've been designing shirts and, you know, they have like flannels now and everything. That's for you, Justin. Super stuff. Yeah, I'm like, oh yes. Like they actually have stuff I'll rock constantly. So yeah, it's easy. Good job. Hey, real quick. You might have heard of CBD and all its great benefits, but here's the problem. All the CBD products on the market suck. You take them and you don't feel them. Well, that's not true with Ned. Ned products are full spectrum hemp oil extracts with CBD and all the cannabinoids that give you anti-inflammatory effects, the euphoric, awesome feelings, the enzymatic anti-stress effects. This is a CBD product you feel and one of the products I love the most, it's their brain blend. Take this before creative endeavors, before work, before reading, before watching a cool movie. The euphoric creative feeling you get from it's pretty awesome. Go check this company out. They're the best hemp oil product company on earth. Go to helloned.com. That's H-E-L-L-O-N-E-D.com forward slash mind pump and get hooked up on that link. All right, here comes the rest of the show. Our first caller is Kalen from Wisconsin. Kalen, what's happening? How can we help you? Hey guys, first off, I just want to say I've been a huge fan of the show for about a year now and you guys have completely revamped everything I thought I knew about exercise. So thank you very much for what you do. My question has to do with protein intake. So in a couple of weeks here up in Wisconsin, I'll be spending about a week hunting during which time I'll probably be eating about one real meal a day. I'm not going to be working out that entire week. And if I'm honest with myself, I'm probably not going to be doing my trigger sessions either. So I was trying to figure out how much protein powder to bring with me and how many protein bars and stuff like that. And that stuff is expensive. So then I started wondering if I'm not even going to be doing trigger sessions, I won't be exerting myself at all, just be sitting in a tree stand really. How important is it for me to be hitting my protein intake of, or my protein target of about 140 grams a day? I know you guys have talked about how good trigger sessions are at maintaining muscle mass during a period where you might not be working out all that much. But that's not really my concern here. My concern is protein. Are you getting ready for a bodybuilding show in a couple of months? No, nothing like that. You're overthinking it. Then who cares? Dude, you got seven days hunting, bro. Enjoy your hunt. Enjoy your hunt, be present, get connected to the earth, would meditate, do whatever. I mean, I wouldn't even trip. Yeah, you're overthinking it. I mean, a week of going to lower protein intake is really not going to hurt you. And whatever if you did, it would come back so fast the following week. So here's, let's do this. What's the goal with the hunting? What are you trying to accomplish during that week of hunting in the wilderness? Probably to kill an animal. Well, besides that, what do you want to get out of it? Right? State the obvious. Let's go there. Like Adam said, it's just to get a kill. That's about it. Right, but I'm assuming you don't hunt because you need food. And if you don't hunt, you're not gonna, you're gonna starve. In other words, you're hunting, you're choosing to hunt because you enjoy it. Because like, what do you want to get out of it besides, you know, actually getting an animal? It'll be my first time hunting and I'm looking to just have a good time and experience the whole hunting lifestyle. Even more reason. You're totally overthinking it. Yeah, yeah, even more. Because look, when you're out there and I'm sure whoever's taking you out there because I'm sure you're going with somebody that's experienced, you're gonna be hiking and walking quite a bit out in the wilderness. You don't want to carry a lot of weight, even 10 pounds on your backpack. It starts to wear on you after a while. So what you want to do is you want to pack foods that are energy dense, that are convenient, things that'll keep your digestion okay because you don't want to have any digestive issues out there without a bathroom or whatever. And just enjoy the hunt. Don't worry about it. I mean, you're gonna be totally fine. You get fast for a week and you'll be fine. And not recommending that. I'm just saying you're totally overthinking it. You're not gonna lose all your gains. It's not gonna set you back, you know, months or whatever. Worst case scenario, you come back, you work out in the gym. The first workout feels a little tough. By the second, third workout, you're back to where you were before. Yeah, I mean, I would go, I guess I would be more focused probably on my training and diet heading into that week off. So, I mean, making sure you're hitting it pretty hard and consistent and dialed in nutritionally. And then the seven days I would, I really wouldn't worry too much about it. I mean, to Sal's point, I wouldn't- Water is more the most important thing. Yeah, I mean, I would enjoy the hunt. I'd enjoy the hunt. I'd have some beef jerky and some granola bars or whatever on me. And I would just, I would enjoy what you're about to go experience. I've always wanted to do this anyways. I've never done this. And I absolutely would not give two shits about my protein intake for the week, just being straight up. Because unless I was getting ready for a show, that's why I asked that first. I mean, if you have like, we cannot lose a pound of muscle and it's very, I mean, that's, but if you don't have crazy physique goals where you have a timeline, like coming up in a month- Totally fine. Yeah, totally fine. And in fact, if you've been training hard and consistent leading up to it, you- You probably could benefit from the week off anyway. Yeah, yeah. You've probably heard us talk about the study that took the two groups that were, you know, three on, three on, one off, where they train three weeks straight, one week off, and they compared them to the group that took no days off. At the end of the study, both groups saw the same gains. So, I mean, there's a lot of value in actually taking off potentially the week. Is that due to an increase in protein sensitivity? I mean, maybe. Also, when you take time off, when you're training hard, that's usually when muscles grow. I mean, there's a lot of potential reasons as to why. But one thing is for sure, and here's the fact, you'll be totally fine. You're gonna be totally fine with that week if you don't eat your protein targets. How would bring foods that are convenient, easy to digest, don't weigh a lot, that way you can focus on the most important thing, which is the experience. You don't wanna miss out on the experience because you're worried about, you have to have 140 grams approaching a day. You know what I mean? Excellent. Thank you so much, guys. You got it, man. Thanks for calling in. All righty. Yeah, I wonder how many people have ruined experiences because, I mean, I did back in the day. I get it. I mean, I'm sure it's a question I probably would have asked. I did back in the day. I mean, how many times I go on vacation was just more worried about access to the gym and food that I could have. And I miss out on this incredible experience as a result of it, you know? He's going on a hunt for a week. That's what you need to focus on. Yeah, just enjoy your experience. I mean, I'm sure whoever's gone with him is gonna be cracking open a beer and hanging out, you know? Nobody wants to be with that guy coming in, like worried about his protein intake. But you know, I get it. If you're like hitting strides and you're doing really well, like, you know, it's always a consideration, but dude, you also have to make room for life. I mean, I like that we get questions like this because it gives us the opportunity to have this conversation that, you know, because I probably would have asked a question like this back then. And I just think it's important that people... Dude, I was like this when I was younger. I was the guy that would bring protein bars to like a concert or an event. Well, how long was it? Four hours, well, I better have a bar so I can have my protein in between. I totally believe that. You know what I mean? Yeah, I did too. I did too. 100%. I mean, there was, we've talked about this. It's been a while since we've talked to this, but I remember, I truly believed, man, I get, you know, three days in a row of not hitting my muscles, just falls off my body. Because it felt that way. Man, I felt like I looked at it and go like, God damn, dude, it just falls off of me. So that's funny. Imagine bringing all that food with you. You're like hiking. Like what's in your bag, bro? You say, bro, a blender? Yeah, yeah. What the fuck are you doing, guy? Trying to hunt. What the fuck? Yeah, you're scaring the animals. Yeah, I know his goal was a killing animal, but that's obviously not the goal. You wouldn't choose to hunt. Yeah. That's why I said, you're not gonna starve. You're choosing to do this for a reason, bro. You go get steak at the grocery store. Yeah. That's funny. Yeah, that was, that was me when I was younger. Yeah, that's why it's good. It's good people hear us talking about it. And you know what? If this was like a hardcore, like bodybuilding podcast, they wouldn't ask that way. Well, how many grams of protein yet? How much do you weigh? Well, let's see if we can figure this out. Well, here's what's convenient. The powder would be good. Then you could bring water. You could mix the powder. And then for carbs, they sell waxy maize. And then you could, you could probably strap up your TRX strap on the tree. Get some berries. Do one-legged squats in the morning. Make sure you have a split schedule. Our next caller is Michelle from California. Hi, Michelle. How are you doing? How can we help you? I recognize you, by the way. You've come to some of our events, haven't you? Yes. I've been at your guys' live events back in San Diego. That's right. That's right. Cool. Well, welcome on the show. So how can we help you? Thank you. So I am calling actually more in regards to my boyfriend. So me and him, our longtime listeners, we both came to the show in San Diego. That's right. And you guys have been super impactful for our fitness journey. So we thank you for that. I'm a personal trainer. I'm also an NBC Bikini competitor. And I've been competing for about three years and he is considering competing for his first show, either in classic physique or physique. We're not too sure yet. He's ran through a lot of your guys' program, but the main thing is he's concerned of his muscle imbalance. So I sent a photo. I don't know if you guys can look at it or whatnot, but basically when he flexes his chest, one of his chest kind of pulls inwards so it looks really unsymmetrical. He's had this problem for a while and we've been trying to focus on just figuring out what's going on if it's just like genetics or if it's a mind-muscle connection or if there's something else, because it's his right side and he's right-handed. He's right-dominant for the most part. So yeah, my main question is, is it possible that we can have imbalances on how our muscles look due to genetics or is it a mind-muscle connection or a movement issue? I mean, yes, yes, and yes. I mean, it could be all those. Are you pulling it up, Doug, so I can see? Have you done the zone one test with him? The zone one test? We've done it a while ago. We do a prime and prime pro. I'd be really curious to see if there's a major discrepancy from his right to his left when he does the zone one. Like he can't get one side back to the wall, like a big difference. Like sometimes, I mean, most of us have like a little bit of a discrepancy where one side can get all the way to the wall and the other one can't quite, but I wonder if he's got a major discrepancy that way and he's rolled forward on one side more. Doug? Yeah, he's probably been having a lot of shoulder issues lately, especially, and he thinks it may be related to the fact that we are really trying to work on this imbalance, but that was a conversation we had based had the muscle balance for, feels like his whole life. Yeah, so the right and left side of the body are relatively symmetrical for most people. So rarely will you see a huge genetic issue where it looks really different on one side or the other. So although that can happen, it's probably because he's been developing his chest a particular way for so long. It becomes so ingrained that it's almost impossible to really notice with your exercise form and technique, unless you go entirely with like unilateral training. Like unilateral training tends to reveal these types of things. So a map symmetry would be a good program, I'd say for him to follow and see. The other thing too is he's competing in, you know, physique presentation sports, and you can change how you pose and how you angle your body to offset stuff like this. This is one of the things that athletes should know. I'm looking at him right now. His right shoulder has rolled forward more and so this is okay, so this is a very similar and his chest looks like what my chest used to look like. So his left is, well, we're looking at it reversed potentially, right? So his left peck is more full and developed compared to his right. And if you look up towards the anterior delt, you can actually see the separation better on his left side than his right side. And it's because his right side is slightly rolled forward. So I guarantee when he does all of his chest exercises on his right side, the shoulder takes over a tiny bit more than the chest does. This was a problem for me for most of my young like lifting career. And I had to get to a plate and start, he's got to get lighter. He's got to do zone one to prime and get him started before he goes into his lift. And then he's got to keep a weight low enough that he can control his shoulders from naturally rolling forward a little bit. And that's all it takes is it comes forward just a tiny bit more and then it takes over. It literally looks exactly like that. Has he ever had an injury on that side? Nothing specifically. I mean, he's played baseball when he was younger and he's probably has some overuse issues with his shoulder but nothing like dramatic. But his chiropractor has asked him that. He's gone to people have asked him because it looks like it. I can see it. Well, if it's an insertion, it's hard to tell with the photo. He could have tore something but he would know if he tore something. Also what side of it is, is it his right side? It's his right side. Yeah. What position did he play in baseball and how long? He played baseball just up until high school but he still plays travel softball now. He plays mostly outfield and first. Baseball can produce asymmetrical physiques, especially if you're a pitcher. I've trained some pitchers and I was pretty blown away by the difference between right and left. So it can produce that because it is, you tend to use one side in a particular way much more than the other. So it's probably an imbalance. Map symmetry would be a great program to follow and he has to use the, I would have him start with the side that is underdeveloped and use that side to dictate the reps for the other side and have you watch him and make sure his form is identical on both sides and really watch his shoulder, the retraction, is it hiking? Is it down? Is his elbow in the same position? Try to mirror each side and then that'll help overtime balance things out but this also takes time. Consider that. It does take it. If he does start to work on this, it could take like a year or two before he starts to see balance. We've looked at map symmetry before and I just, nothing stuck out to me too much as it being very focused on the chest. Doesn't need to be. No, it doesn't. And it's focused unilateral. That's it. That's what he needs to do is he needs to focus on one side. I'm gonna tell you something right now. If he has an imbalance on his right pec, he probably has an imbalance in terms of function in his shoulder and in the muscles that support the shoulder including the lats, the rhomboids. It's almost never an isolated one muscle because the whole body works together. So map symmetry would address this cosmetic issue but it would also address any other compensations that have developed as a result potentially. Work on the function a lot of times it'll help to build that connection for muscular development. And if that's the case and it does look like, he may be able to make progress there muscular wise if he focuses on the connection there. But I don't know specifically just based on that photo but it's worth putting effort in that direction. Justin, did we in map symmetry did we do the alternating isometric cable fly in there? I believe so. I believe so. That's my favorite exercise for this. Okay, so this chest looks just like what mine looks like, I had the same issue. And there's an exercise in there that I lived and died by. And so I just think it's so good for somebody who has an issue like this with getting connected like the guys are saying and it's an alternating cable fly with an isometric hold at the end. So he's alternating, squeezing and holding that side coming back, squeezing and holding and alternating back and forth. Such a good exercise. But I just make sure he primes zone one in maps prime before he goes into even symmetry and goes into lifting. And then I think symmetry is the program for him. And this does take time. It took me years actually to catch this up. Yeah, it can take a long time. Well, he'll be happy to hear that you saying that that's what your chest used to look like. Oh yeah, my chest is just like that. It's literally just like that. Except your nipples were bigger. Yeah, much bigger nipples. I have a little bit of point to you. Soft though. Awesome, well thank you guys so much. This will be super helpful for us. Thanks, thanks for calling in. Appreciate it. Yeah, you know, it's a good point to make. You have a, if you have a cosmetic imbalance, it takes a while. It's not gonna like you, oh, in a month I'll have this balanced out. Bro, I was insecure about my chest for a long time. It's hard-wired. Cause it looked just like the on the right side. It looked like, and as a young kid, I thought, oh my, I thought it was decline I need to do. Like it was like, I wasn't developing the bottom of my chest. No, what it was was my shoulder would, I'd told the story somewhere. I would slightly roll just forwards a slight bit like that from playing sports. And I just did not develop right. And so I had to get to a place. The body adapts. Yeah. The body adapts. You know, it's funny that there's skeletons that they'll pull up remains from medieval bowmen. You know, long bowmen, right? During the medieval times. And they know that they were bowmen because of the bones, how the bones were developed. The twist is fine. And the one are, you know, the humorous on one side is much thicker than the other. And they know that all these guys were pulling heavy bows. Like your body adapts and You know what? Dumbbell work is really good for someone like this. Totally. Because it allows him. I would stay away from barbell for a while. For a long, for a long time. I would do map symmetry for a year at least. Just live in map symmetry. I would too, but then what I would even do, because even in map symmetry, we have you at the end kind of test with the barbell. That's only a few weeks, you know. The most of it's all unilateral. Yeah. I would be dumbbell lifting for, that's what happened is I ended up going to dumbbells for a long time and then really, you know, it also made it, made it worse, was not only did I roll a little forward, but this was back when I used to catch it 90 degrees too. So I wasn't even letting my shoulder. Yeah, not full range of motion. So getting it going into the dumbbells would start to force the retraction and getting me all the way into that. That made a big difference on development. But it looked my chest just like that and I can see it in his shoulders when he's posing like that. So it's exactly how I looked. Next caller is Austin from California. Austin, what's happening man? How can we help you? How's it going guys? Good. Yeah, so I'm just a few hours south of you down here on the Central Coast. I really appreciate you having me on. I started listening to your podcast about six months ago. My coworker introduced me and we listen while we work, stay up to date on most of your podcasts. I ended up getting the starter bundle. I ran anabolic, really enjoyed watching my body transform through that. And I'm looking forward to continuing to build strength and muscle. And my main goals are just to build strength and maintain general health. My question is in regard to cardio respiratory training alongside its strength training program. I know you encourage walking as the main form of cardio while strength training. And that totally makes sense to me. But I kind of, I'm a little concerned I'm neglecting an important aspect of health when I use walking as my main form of cardio. And I was wondering, what is the optimal way to program cardio with the goal of achieving heart health and longevity alongside a weight lifting routine while not compromising strength? Well, if it's heart health that you're after, daily walking and strength training and a good diet, it's gonna do that for you. Now, if you want endurance and you want stamina, well, that's when you need to incorporate different forms of cardiovascular training. Things that'll challenge your body, right? Because walking is only gonna build a little bit of stamina and endurance. It's not gonna build a ton, right? So this is when you incorporate things like HIIT cardio, sprinting, running, cycling, swimming. I mean, really there's no wrong answer here. It's just pick one that you enjoy. And I would say if you're following a program like MAPS and Ebola, you could do a couple of days a week where you incorporate 30 minutes to an hour of this type of activity, the shorter bouts being the more intense forms of cardio and the longer bouts being the less intense forms of cardio. So it's really about endurance and stamina at this point. You could always, I mean, I love to do 12 minutes of HIIT cardio after your weight training sessions and then with your normal walking and you're gonna have, you're gonna build decent. I mean, that's only gonna give you 12 minutes of stamina of cardio if you wanna go for an hour run or two hour runs, you're not gonna be the best at that. But if you're like general health, you wanna have a strong heart, the ability for your heart rate to go all the way up like that, come back down, then go all the way back up and you need to do that in 12 minute intervals. You'll probably never have to in your life run from anything longer than 12 minutes that hard. I think that's gonna keep you pretty healthy. You're eating well and you're strength training. You have a pretty good balance. You just gotta know that the more you go in the cardio direction, you begin to tip the scales in that adaptation process and that becomes- Which is fine. Which is, yeah, nothing wrong with that if that's a goal. But if your main goal is I wanna build muscle, I wanna get stronger, I wanna get bigger, that direction, then doing too much of that, it's gonna be difficult. Well, I think there's a misconception out there too that like weight lifting and intense weight lifting doesn't like increase your heart rate substantially. You do get a lot of heart work while lifting weights, especially if you're bringing and cranking the intensity a bit, obviously like walking for us is just something that's like just recovery type activity. And it's something that's like just in general will help your body to thrive for longevity sake. So in terms of like that in like comparing that to other forms of cardiovascular, like Sal talking about stamina, that would be if you wanna pursue something that you have a little more stamina towards, this is where raising that for a bit longer and like cutting your rest periods, which you could do with hit training or you could do with any other form of just like steady state kind of cardio, that's something that you can pursue. But again, in terms of like covering the bases, if you're weight training and raising that intensity and then also doing walking, you're pretty much covering the basis there. Austin, if you're interested in general fitness and longevity and health and you wanna do this for a long time, if you cycle through our programs, you're gonna hit a lot of this. For example, you do a MAPS anabolic, you could try MAPS cardio. Or MAPS performance. Or MAPS performance, right? These are all, they're gonna give you different types of adaptations. Some are more strength, some are more endurance like cardio, OCR for example, those are much more stamina and endurance. But even performance has a major endurance component to it. Phase four is no joke. That's right. And there's lots of different ways to do this. Unless you have a specific type of stamina you're looking for, like you wanna get good at running or good at swimming or good at cycling, you can even do conditioning sessions in the gym. So you could do it to where you use the sled or where you take two or three exercises, you put them together. If you do a set of 30 reps of squats, you're gonna build some stamina and endurance. So there's lots of different ways to do this. That's why I said it really doesn't matter unless you have a specific stamina goal, like you wanna get specifically good at a particular type of movement. I do feel it is good to consider moving fast. Like that's something people don't consider like as an age, like you should incorporate on some level. So to be able to react properly and have joint stability while you're moving quickly is something that you should incorporate in your program. I like the 12 minute hit stuff after, I mean, you get 12 minute hit after your weight training session. You do it right, you're gonna, that's gonna, you're gonna feel that. Yeah, I mean, you could, that means you'll be able to get out and run a mile easily and any basic sprinting from one point to the other in your life, like you're gonna be fine. Obviously it's not gonna make you a great basketball player or football player or great at jumping rope for an hour or swimming in a pool for an hour. So you have to do those specifically. But if you just look for good cardiovascular health, the ability to get after it and ask, like Justin said, ask upon your muscles to move explosively, doing a little bit of 12 minute hit after weight training session will do that for you. Yeah, I'm gonna send you MAPS cardio, just so you have an endurance-based workout program if you wanna try that. I also think you should consider performance. Yeah, I also think you should consider doing MAPS performance too. It was performance in the starter bundle. Did you already have that? I have the starter bundle, but it doesn't have performance. No, it doesn't have performance. Okay, so yeah, yeah. I would actually, if before- I'd go performance first. Yes, I'd go performance. Oh, awesome. I'd do performance next, then I would do cardio, so that's what I would do. Thank you for coming to performance. Thank you so much. So is that something that you just cycled through kind of like throughout the year? Yeah. Like just for yourself personally as well? Awesome, we designed the programs. We wrote as many programs as we did, and ideally, because our goal is always, look, we're always trying to talk to people about doing this forever, okay? So ideally what someone would do is follow one of our programs and then follow another one of our programs and then follow another one. And I mean, literally if you followed all of our programs back to back, you'd have like a year and a half or maybe two years of workouts all planned out. Now, most people don't do that because most people like a type of training more than others. So like, I don't go and cycle perfectly through all of our math programs. I tend to live mostly in a maps and a balic, maybe maps aesthetic, maybe map strong type of workout. And then I'll cycle every once in a while, I'll jump out and do some other stuff. But that's just, I enjoy doing that kind of training. But in my opinion, the perfect, in the perfect world for any of my clients would be to cycle through most, all of them at least one time. And then you get to see what adaptations you get from each of them. Like if you've gone through, let's pretend you had gone through all of them, you'd be like, oh man, damn, I know when I go through maps cardio, it gives me incredible cardio endurance. So let's say you, but you love strength training. And so you tend to lean towards maps strong, maps power lift, maps and a balic. And you kind of love to cycle around that. And you've been doing that for a year or two years. You're like, you know what? I've been really neglecting cardiovascular training. So then you insert maps cardio for a cycle. So the idea is that we encourage people to go through the programs. They learn about the adaptation process that each of those, that way of training and that way of programming gives their body. And then you learn to kind of mix and match yourself. And it doesn't mean you can't stay focused in one direction for a while, but that you recognize when you neglect something like mobility. Find out which one fills a hole or a need that your body was really requiring from you. So yeah, it's important to go through all that to assess like where you could spend more time. Awesome. All right. Well, thanks guys, I appreciate it. You got awesome. Thanks for calling in, man. All right, have a good one. No problem. Yeah, I mean, it's important. It's ideal because if you don't, like here's the big issue, this is the obvious one. If you stay in the same kind of training all the time, what ends up happening is you end up amplifying the risks that that type of training, because every type of training has a risk profile. And if you only ever train in that particular way, the risks start to grow. And the benefits start to, so you start to get these diminishing returns. And all of a sudden you're like, oh, my elbow hurts, my knee hurts, or I don't have lateral mobility or I don't have good thoracic, but whatever, right? Or I can't go for a run for eight minutes without killing, feeling like I'm gonna die. Exactly, exactly. So that's why it's important to do this to go in and out. And you can live mostly in one type of training if you really enjoy it because like, I'm not gonna, the bottom line is you also, there's also the factor of enjoyment, right? So it's okay to do that. Adherence too, like I enjoy doing this. Yeah, but you wanna take care of yourself enough so that you can do it, right? Because if you don't, then at some point you won't be able to do that thing that you love so much. Our next caller is Stephanie from California. Stephanie, how's it going? How can we help you? Good, how are you guys? Good, good. Good, I just wanted to thank you guys. First of all, found your podcast about eight months ago and it's just been a huge change to how I look at fitness and health and lifestyle. So thanks guys for putting all that great content. Thank you. Okay, so my question is, I started looking weights about 10 years ago, really going to the gym with my husband. Then I started with the trainer for about six months and I ended up doing kind of your typical bodybuilding splits, I guess is what you guys would say where it was Monday, it was chest and trice, Tuesdays back in, and then shoulders and legs. But the one thing that I was never consistent on was training legs. And that was because I was always training with like my husband or the trainer and they didn't put so much emphasis on it, guys chest day, of course. So just the last few years I've been trying to build my legs and kind of build up more. A little bit of back history on me, I'm five, four, 120, I would say, kind of, I have a desk job so I sit kind of most of the day or whatever, but I do work out and I try to stay consistent with it. I run, hike, jog, walk, but my main goal is to build muscle and build, my physique kind of build my legs up, my lower body. I started anabolic about, I want to say, well, I'm not going to start phase three this week. I started with prephrase and then just kind of worked up and I noticed that on all my lifts every week I'm increasing weight, but my squats, I just am not lifting very heavy on. So I wanted to know kind of what you would suggest or recommend in order to continue to build strength and progress on increasing weight on the bar and then kind of what program would be ideal after anabolic. Should I rerun anabolic or should I move on to another MAPS program? Stephanie, how much are you running? Running, maybe right now one to two times a week. Okay, that's good. When you say your squats aren't going up, is this your back squat and your front squat? Yeah. Or is it just your back squat? Back squat, I have only the bar with like, like total 60 pounds, including the 45 pound bar. Okay, and are you noticing any, have you gotten any stronger in any other lower body exercises, like lunges or deadlifts or anything like that? Deadlifts, I have my deadlift right now. I'm at about 130 on. So I noticed that that one's increasing much quicker than the back squats. Okay. It could be your squat mechanics. Yeah, it could be your squat, that's exactly what I was thinking. Squat mechanics could be something with ankle mobility. You can switch to split stance exercises for a while and see how those feel. Cause oftentimes that'll do the trick. After MAPS and a ball, I'd like to see you do MAPS strong. I'd like to see you do something like that. That'll really work the posture chain and get. I was going to say symmetry then strong. Symmetry would be another great one. The reason why I say symmetry. I mean, that's not bad. Yeah, but just because I think that the unilateral work, if it is something where she's maybe not getting as much glute work inside of her squats and it could be a mechanic thing and doing something like lunges and a lot of unilateral stuff that we have in there, I think might benefit her. So I would go symmetry first, then I like strong. Yeah, you sold me. I think that's perfectly fine. Yeah, I think that would be great. Finish in a ball though, finish where you're at and then the next one. And then we'll have ducks and you over symmetry. And then if you ever following a program of ours and you want to modify it, especially if you have a good feel of your body and you followed it before, you can definitely do that. And what you want to do is you want to take volume away from other areas and add it to the areas you want it. So what you don't want to do is add exercises and add volume to your legs without compensating by taking volume away from other areas. Otherwise you're gonna just do too much total volume. Okay, so if there's a part of your upper body, for example, that you're like, okay, my shoulders, for example, are really developed. I don't need to do a lot of work for them. You could take three sets from there and then add two or three sets to your lower body. If you want to mold and change the workout, to fit your goals a little bit better. So I agree, that would look like aesthetic for me. That's why that would be the next one. So I'd go symmetry right now. After you do anabolic, go to symmetry, then go to strong after that, which is a lot of posterior chain focus. That's why I saw it went that direction with you. And then I would go to aesthetic, maps aesthetic, which is teaching you how to focus on a specific body part and develop that. And then you could pick and we teach you inside the program how to do that. That's the order. Now the other part too is gonna be diet. So just from looking at you on the video, you look like you're really lean. Are you tracking your calories and macros? Are you eating more to try to fuel strength in muscle? I have been. So actually since, I want to say since June, I've put on about 10 pounds. So I was at like 109 or so pounds and I'm 120 right now. So I am tracking my macros. I am probably around 1600 calories right now. Oh yeah. You got to get this higher. You're, how tall are you? Okay. 5'4. 5'4, 120 and you still look lean. You're still probably in the teens from body fat percentage. So I would bump your calories up again. Maybe up to 18. I would go up to a couple hundred calories to really fuel what you're looking for. Otherwise it'd be really hard. It's really hard to build muscle and strength at 1600 calories. Okay. Makes sense. And one last thing with symmetry. I work out from home. So I have a home gym in my garage. I have a squat rack, a cable machine, dumbbells, a box squat. Is that possible to, you know, use symmetry at home? That's everything. All of them. You can get it all covered just for that. You'd be totally set. All right. Awesome. Well, dude, thank you guys. I really appreciate it. No problem. Thanks for calling in. You're welcome. Thanks. I think, I think she needs to eat more. I think that's going to make a big difference. 6 center calories with that much, you know, when she's exercising and running. She's trying to, yeah, feeling strong. Especially since she's trying to build. Yeah. And you're right. I forgot she's also running some too. She's running. She's lifting, you know, she's, she's obviously lean. You can see it in the video. Yeah. How long has she been doing anabolic? Because she's on phase three. Okay. Cause at this point too, from going from splits forever to like total body, that should also make a big difference. But you know, to your guys earlier point of like squat mechanics, like, I don't know. I know. I got you. I'd like to see it. Like, yeah, there's a lot there. You know what's interesting? To be uncovered. So if you guys didn't notice this for yourselves, but for me, I can sometimes get stronger, maybe not now, but earlier, earlier in my training career, I could get stronger in some lifts without necessarily upping my calories too much, but my squat responds a lot to calories. Like if I, Well, so demanding. It's just so demanding. It's so much muscle mass. Like if I bump, if I bring my calories up or down, I feel a lot of it in my squat. Yeah. I just noticed that with that particular look. Yeah, I agree. So look, if you like mine pump, head over to minepumpfree.com and check out our guides. We have guides that can help you with almost any health or fitness goal. They're all totally free. They cost nothing. We give them all away. You can also find all of us on social media. So Justin is on Instagram at mine pump, Justin. Adam is on Instagram at mine pump, Adam. And you can only find me on Twitter at mine pumps out. This one's really important. And that is to phase your training. If somebody trains for a full year doing a bench press and they're always aiming for five reps. If you compared that person to a person who did a bench press where they did three or four weeks of five reps, but then they did three or four weeks of 12 reps and then three or four weeks of, let's say 15 to 20 reps. And then they'll throw in some supersets. At the end of that year, you're gonna see more consistent progress from the person who's moving in and out. And less injury. That's another thing. You'll see less injury as well.