 Welcome everyone to the telecom exchange CEO roundtables, both for our guests here in the room joining us at our very first Tech SLA as well as to our viewers who are tuning in live streaming video on JSA Facebook page as well as for our folks who are downloading us on JSA TV. Our fourth panel today is called Silicon Valley and its telecom partners, innovation, timelines and transparencies. We are honored to have as our moderator, Ms. Liz Curtin, President of the Telecom Council of Silicon Valley. And just to embarrass Liz a little bit, according to San Jose Business Journal, Liz is one of Silicon Valley's most influential women. She's a marketing expert focused on tech and telecom, starting the Telecom Council of Silicon Valley way back in 2001, which today, as many of you know, is a thriving community, thousands of telecom industry leaders from hundreds of companies, including 60 global telcos who are focused on telecom innovation. So really I can't think of anyone better to moderate this panel. So please help me welcome Ms. Liz Curtin. Thank you, Jamie. Make sure my voice is coming in loud and clear. So with that introduction, I've actually asked my panels to self-introduce themselves. That way we can get from the horse's mouth exactly what their position. But specifically to just to give you a little background on the Silicon Valley and the changes and the pace of change and the intersection of software and hardware and communications and wireless. It's really a very, very quickly changing lots of investment going on into both the little companies that you haven't heard of yet and the giant companies that are really moving the industry forward. And so part of what we're trying to get to with this panel is to uncover the ways that the telecom partners can support this rapid growth and this rapid changing environment that's going on there. If we can do it right in Silicon Valley, then we can do it right everywhere else. The challenge is definitely in Silicon Valley. So with that, if I can start at the end with some self-introductions and maybe if you can talk specifically about your differentiators for how you work with fast growing companies. Great. Thank you. Hi, everybody. My name is David Meredith. I'm with CenturyLink. We are the third largest network provider and the second largest data center provider. So I am responsible for our data center business. We have 57 data centers globally and we provide a range of what we call hybrid IT services. So network services, co-location, managed hosting, private cloud, public cloud and then professional services and we put that together to make solutions for our customers. So that's probably our differentiator is we have a wide range of capabilities. We've got about a half a dozen data centers in the Silicon Valley area. So quite a few tech companies there and we're proud to have many well-known tech companies that started in our data centers that we've helped to grow to be big brand names today. That's great. I'm Kumar Ramachandran, founder CEO for Cloud Genics. We're helping create a new category in the van space. This is the fastest growing segment in IT, a few small tens of millions of dollars last year, but projected to grow to about $6 billion in 24 months. And the reason that customers are helping fuel very, very rapid growth in this segment is really three big reasons. Number one, customers are looking for freedom when it comes to connectivity, being able to freely choose transport type service provider, both provider and themselves, their applications accountable to SLAs, be able to free their applications from being bound to either a cloud or data center, but be fluidly accessible from anywhere in their enterprise organization and then really getting freedom from hardware routers. I spent 10 years building routers back at my old company at the behemoth and what we figured is a way to deliver the capabilities as software and as a cloud based service. So certainly excited to be here. Yeah, David Walsh with GenBand. I'm the CEO and chairman, and we have two lines of business. One is our core, what we call network transformation business, probably aware this is still a massive public switch telephone network out there that needs to be migrated to IP. So the core of what GenBand does is this move from TDM to IP, and once you get into IP world there are a lot of different enhanced services that you can offer into the marketplace. But we over the last 10 years acquired the largest patent portfolio of intellectual property around real-time communications. So we have enormous amount of foundational science, literally everybody is using our science in one way or the other for real-time communications, and we built a platform called Candy where we decomposed all of this science for real-time communications, which is voice, it's video, it's text, it's collaboration, it's all those types of things, and we allow people to come in and use that platform to develop anything around real-time communications essentially embedding real-time communications in any application, in any website, in anything. And it's a pay for what you use model. How it's sold is we enable carriers like CenturyLink to be able to go to the market and become a Twilio themselves. So if you think about Twilio, Twilio is an API carrier. What we do is we take our science, we bolt it on to the carrier network, the carriers have network economics, we have IP economics, we put it together and we go to the market. And this is where we see enormous amounts of transformation. If you go to your deck today on your mobile phone, you'll see that embedded real-time communications is working its way into everything. So if you look at Uber as an example, it doesn't exist without real-time communications. So that's where we see the opportunity and it's really exciting because I've been in this marketplace for nearly 35 years and I haven't seen this type of opportunity where lots of people are focused on unified communications, but that's an expense. This is revenue. It's an opportunity for the market to completely change itself over the next three to five years. Okay. I'm Craig Farrell. I am the CTO for Telecom globally at IBM responsible for products, strategy, M&A, markets, ideal routinely with every tier one carrier in the world. They're all a customer. They have products, everything from hardware, software clearly, services, a complete services portfolio. We deal particularly, I came in predominantly through software. I started a company a few years ago, a startup company with my students in Australia. We got venture capital funding out of the United States. We moved to the United States and ultimately that company was acquired into IBM, which is why I find myself there today. I've run the entire gamut from a company of seven guys to 400,000 people or whatever IBM is these days. I've run all of that. I work purely in the telecom industry. In terms of Silicon Valley, most of you know IBM's presence from probably the Elmerton research lab up on the hill up there, the big secret one that's a huge building that you can't miss. There's also the Santa Teresa research lab. We also have our venture capital division is also based up in the city, San Francisco City. Its primary job is to look for interesting companies, technologies, ideas. We look where we can to invest and incorporate them, but predominantly we look into buy things. That's surreptitiously what IBM does. There's kind of two schools of thought within IBM. There is the idea that we should invest in technology and build them. There is a different school of thought where I'm from which says if you see a piece of technology and you really fall in love with it and you're going to put the IBM sales machine behind it, then you buy it. We have that going on with an IM2, but that's some of the things I do. Good afternoon. I'm Dan Meltzer. I like to say I have two jobs at CB Data Centers. One is vice president of sales and leasing, so running a team, selling into our portfolio. The other is I manage our telecom relationships globally. A little bit about our company. We've been around for 45 years. We've actually been in the data center business pretty much as long as anybody, about 20 plus years. We have five major facilities east and west coast. East coast, New York City, Ashburn, Virginia. In the west coast, we're pretty dominant in the Pacific Northwest, in Seattle, Wenatchee and Quincy. Quincy and Wenatchee have the lowest cost power in the developed world, about two and a half cents a kilowatt hour. We're basically offering our tenants, and a couple of these gentlemen are our customers, the lowest cost TCO in the market. Our relationship in Silicon Valley is we see that as one of our key markets, which is to attract the innovators and also some of the established Silicon Valley customers to the Pacific Northwest and also to Ashburn. At the same time, we're developing our relationships, again, with all the carriers. Silicon Valley is a key spot for us, and I'm looking forward to today's panel. Good afternoon. I'm Colleen Gallagher with XKL. I'm our Regional Director of Business Development. XKL is an equipment manufacturer, headquartered in Kirkland, Washington. Many of you are, I'm sure, familiar with our CEO and founder, Mr. Len Bosak. He was co-founder of Cisco Systems. Founded XKL in 1991. We have our DWDM platform, the 10 gig platform that's been out for seven or eight years now. Most recently, launched a very innovative 100 gig coherent product we call evalocity. The interesting thing about our evalocity platform is it really can enable the most optimum spectral efficiency. You can get 2.4 times as much traffic on your 100 gig circuits than any other DWM provider out there. We do it with some unique statistical multiplexing, so you can get, think of it as 2.4 times much traffic. That'd be 2.4 times as much revenue, depending upon if you're a service provider or moving your own traffic. Besides the recognition of our founder and his ties to Silicon Valley, the tech companies I think are looking for flexible architecture. Our flex arc distributed architecture speaks to that along with being a very scalable platform. You can combine your 10 gig and your 100 gig platforms, as well as being ultra low latency and a very green product, very, very low on the power consumption and all in a small footprint so your data center costs, your OPEX are lower because of lower space and lower power needs. A lot of those features, as well as the multi-vendor environment that we can work in. We're layer one, but we work with anyone's layer two and three switches and routers, so very standards-based to enable you to get the benefits of our efficiencies and apply it to your existing network or lighting new dark fiber, so I'm sure that we'll get into more things. Right. What you see here is a panel, a very diverse panel. We have connectivity, we have hardware, we have services, so a lot of the questions that I'm going to ask are not relevant to all of you, so don't feel like you have to answer everything, but there are some questions which are, would be cross, I would call it cross platform here. In terms of supporting this rapidly changing business environment, and it's not just happening in Silicon Valley, what are the key things that you all believe that we need to be providing, even if it's not something that you're providing to this market? So for example, some of you mentioned cost, some of you mentioned flexibility, what are the other differentiators that we should be keeping our eyes out for? Thoughts? Well, every operator I deal with is constantly asked by developers for everything cheaper, everything faster, more bandwidth for less price, they want coverage, even when it's really hard to provide coverage, they want the coverage, and it's never allowed to break, and we'd like all that done cheaper, please, or preferably free. Well, I can't address the preferably free part of it, so I'll just pass right over that, but likewise I think that the things that we hear from our customers are the reliability, the ability to grow quickly with the additional bandwidth, and that's why some of the products we've designed are exactly geared towards that, to enable that, because the crystal ball that everybody has in the IT department of when is that new bandwidth needed, and where is sometimes cloudy, may not be perfect crystal balls, so what we've designed in our hardware and the systems that you can deploy using it, enable you to have that foundation and respond quickly to the changing needs and growth in a private network basis, and address those technology needs. That's fine, maybe I'll add something to it, in terms of automation, the world that I live in, our customers, those typical IT departments, our enterprise companies, it's even the telcos, and in a world where cars drive themselves increasingly, had a harry ride on 280 back in the Bay Area in a Tesla that drove itself completely, after some amount of losing some nerves, it was a fantastic drive, we were going pretty well on a crowded freeway. Now when you look at IT systems, the gulf between some of the things we do versus what let's say even a driverless car can do, really comes on to hardware versus software, I know someone likes to say infrastructure is a database, the network is a database is what it is, and once you take that kind of an approach, using data science techniques, machine learning techniques, you can automate and put lots of intelligence into things that for the last 30, 40, 50 years, we've required masses of engineers, CCIEs and whatnot, to manually do a whole bunch of things inefficently, so the opportunity ahead of us really is in terms of very intelligent automation, and we're certainly seeing our customers demand it, and the transition to software enables and unleashes those capabilities in networking. One thing I've noticed that the constant in all of my dialogue with very senior people around the industry is one thing, time to market. The world, it's not about cost, that's where people tend to go when they don't have imagination, and there's a lot of lacking imagination in this market, but the capital for imagination in the world is Silicon Valley, there are people that are inventing stuff every day, so how we can do well is figuring out how to help them bring their ideas to life, this new imagination economy that exists is amazing, and that's why every day you pick up something that affects you in your daily life, like Waze or Air B2B, any of these applications that we didn't have just a few years ago have completely altered the way we live our life, so if we want to be successful, we have to play into how do we make this imagination, this collective consciousness of ideas come to life, so that's what we've been focused on, and it's a huge opportunity, one of the things I do when my kids are all together around the table, we start businesses at every dinner, we have one hour to start a business, that's what we do, instead of playing all the other games you play, so okay, let's come up with a business, and I always challenge my kids, okay, let's figure out an alternative to, let's figure out the strongest company in the world, Amazon, okay, how do we put Amazon out of business, so now these are young kids, and here's they came up with, they came up with a name, Sahara, because it's two and a half times the size of Amazon, the second thing they said is that what does really Amazon have, it has lots of facilities and buildings, right, real estate, but you know, for all those products, but all those products are closer to you, they're down the road in retail stores, we're getting killed by Amazon, so why don't we just use Uber, which is now two and a half times the size of FedEx and UPS, and it'll be five times the size by the end of next year, bigger logistics system, use the products already on the shelf that are closer, and put Amazon out of business, now, that's an idea that can be done at a dinner table with teenagers, and the world exists, so we have to find a way to help bring those ideas to life, that's the beauty of the world that we live in, now all of us are playing a really important role, like probably one of the coolest things in the world is what this guy's doing is Watson, but it's much smarter than me doing that, yeah, but that's in your family of companies, and it's brilliant because cognitive learning now allows any application in any behavior to be honed and improved, and so this is just going to learn, it's just going to result in a whole lot more innovation, so this is like this unbelievable thing, I call it the imagination economy, it's like a different way that the world is operating, anyone can come up with an idea, and I'm hearing all this political chatter about, well, the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting, it's going to continue, it's going to get worse, because if you work with your hands, you're in trouble, if you work with your mind, there's unlimited value to an idea, unlimited, we've seen it, people become a billionaire on a good idea, so that's what I think is really interesting about the economy we live in today and where we can all make a contribution. Just on that Watson thing, IBM makes that available to all of you, free as a developer environment and everything else available to any of you who want that, so if you're interested in that in particular, just kind of the IBM website, it's all available there, developer kits, everything. And we're using it and it's stunning, it's like the coolest thing I've ever seen, it's not smart, it just learns really fast, and before, in a very short period of time, it's better than any human can be at anything, so I didn't understand the power of it, because you know, I just kind of caught up in my own little world, we plugged into the IBM folks, and I have to tell you, I was completely blown away, I've not seen anything that has this type of potential. So that actually brings up a question, so you know, on the question of what are the differentiators that we need to be delivering here, I've heard cost and speed, I've heard quality and coverage, flexibility, scalability and time to market, but I didn't hear analytics, I didn't hear security, I didn't hear interconnect. Yeah, I was gonna say, I think that interconnect is really important, so Craig talked about the pressure on prices always going down, and it's hard in a competitive environment to compete on features and functions alone, so what we've tried to do is create ecosystems where we sit in the middle of many to many relationships, so we've got 60 data centers roughly, and now we're interconnected with 220 other data centers, so almost 300 data centers. We have almost 100 network providers built into our facilities, including being on net with Century Link, so the customers that we have in Silicon Valley, we call them born in the cloud, and they're really looking for more than just a simple capability, they wanna be in part of an ecosystem where they can get access to our 20,000 business customers, so that's what we try to do is create an environment where we can help them get interconnected with customers, the other thing on the supply chain side, they really wanna focus on what they can be best in the world at, everything else they wanna buy as a service, so they wanna make everything a variable cost, so we can, through that ecosystem, give them access to multiple vendors, multiple network providers, multiple cloud providers, and allow them to get the best possible cost and features and functions for their solution, and because of that network effect, you have to be there, cause that's where everyone else is, it's very hard to compete against that just based on price, or based on features and functions. Great. And Liz, if I can. Sure. So, I think, a common theme that I'm hearing is flexibility, so the innovators don't wanna buy something that looks like this, you have to have it the way it is, they wanna customize, they want the interconnectivity, they want all those things, and price is a factor, cause then once they figure out what they want, then you have the negotiation, because they're most likely VC funded, or they're still working on their C round, and they will drive that price down, so to me, it's a combination of flexibility and pricing. Great, so then the kind of necessary next question is, so these are the differentiators and the features that we need to be producing, what are the technologies that we need to get us there? SDN, software defined networks, any thoughts there? Well, I guess I'll go first. My carriers are investing in a number of technologies, obviously the wireless guys are all doing their four, the LTE rollouts now, they're all looking to 5G to improve the bandwidth clearly for everybody. They're all obviously investing in transitioning their networks or transforming their networks from the old TDM networks over to optical and IP based technology, they're doing that for a number of reasons, but again, it's to improve bandwidth, to improve speed and to improve flexibility. They're investing in technologies like SDN and NFV, partially for cost, they honestly believe it will save a lot of money, and there are certain examples and proof of concepts to prove that, but also for the speed of provisioning, if we have examples, and this is an IBM example, but where we can go out and if you have a major sporting event going on in a venue, we can rapidly provision more capacity and speed at that location for that period of time, and indeed we could even allow it, particular applications or customers to do that locally as well, so that sort of flexibility and immediate speed is the sort of investment that you see a lot of my operators doing, particularly in their OSS, BSS systems, to support that. So that's where they're trying to be very, very flexible. So these are the sort of investments operators are making to support the innovative services that many of you wanna build. And as a hardware manufacturer, XKL is incorporating a lot of those feature functionalities into a layer one, which otherwise would often been reserved for layer two or three. So for example, you can do QoS, you can do prioritization in our layer one boxes. You can even use them in a ring topology, not just point to point. The ports are flexible any to any across any box at any one of the, let's say, your data centers nationwide, or regionally within a metro, you can soft configure, again, talk about speed to provisioning and speed to changes. You can change this port to point it on any wave, on any frequency to any other connected across your network. So things that previously you had to have multiple boxes, maybe multiple vendors, you can do in one RU form factor, very low power consumption because our customers and the service providers and who they're serving are demanding that kind of flexibility and that kind of functionality. And so we're designing that, we're responding by designing that in this next generation of hardware that's no longer large chassis. It's all in pizza boxes. And that's how we're responding to those demands because it's moving at such a pace and the requirements are there so that we've put that foundation out to be available today. One thing I noticed in the market is there's like two different lenses that people see the world through. One group sees the world through the lens of infrastructure, those are like carriers. They kind of look through the world and they say, what do I feel comfortable with? I feel comfortable with making my infrastructure better, faster, cheaper, easier to use. It's what's in their DNA and it's deep in the DNA pool. And so they're keen on focused on that. So things like NFV where they can run anyone's software on anyone's hardware and they can virtualize it, they can pay for what they use, they get rid of all the trap license, all that's very attractive to them. Then there's the other lens viewed through the customer experience. These are the Silicon Valley people. These are the ones who say, if I can create a unique experience I can build a business out of it. And what I'm gonna do is when I do that I'm gonna take advantage of these infrastructure people they're spending all the money and they're slowly disintermediating the infrastructure people from the consumer that touches the application. And if you look at the value over the last 20 years 90% of the value has moved to the consumer that they touch the experience. So it's not that they don't understand the values there when the carriers look at it they say I have a dollar to spend, do I spend it on CAPEX infrastructure? Or I spend it on an application? They spend it over here even though they're gonna get less of a return because it's what they do. It's deep in the DNA. But we have to figure out I think how to move the world into this experience because long-term how is America gonna prevail as the powerhouse that has been in the past? It's gonna be by using its ideas not its infrastructure because anyone can build infrastructure but not anyone can come up with great ideas like we can. So it's just it's really interesting you talk to two different people they come out a completely different place and you gotta know your audience at least I do I go into some of these meetings and I'm like okay I gotta put a different hat on all together and talk a different language because it really is two different worlds out there. David would you agree as that the carrier side of things have a more hardware infrastructure viewpoint? Well I think the direction it's gonna be software-defined everything, software-defined networks, software-defined data centers and we're going through that shift now. So we've made some announcements about investments in that space. There is a legacy mindset that you have to transition from but people want cloudification of everything. So the cloud is really about a buy the drink delivery model so I'll get workloads as I need it I'm not gonna spend a bunch of money up front I may or may not need it as I ramp and scale I can get it on demand. So that's what people want from their network that's what people want from all of their services they get from their providers. So I think as you said there is a legacy mindset around all the heavy capex investment but everyone's trying to figure out the quickest path to get there today. So what I'm again to kind of recap by what I'm hearing on the technology side is some software-defined, the QOS was mentioned, LTE, NFV. What I didn't hear again was security, analytics, open source. Do you think these are maybe technologies that are just not as important but still important or should we be concentrating on? We're actually, so we're going through a strategic process now where we're gonna be forming a joint venture, adding security and analytics companies into our data center platform. So we view it as something that's very strategic and important because most customers, security is just an issue, we see it in the news every day and it's not going away and it's like the concept of co-evolution as we get better at security, they get better at cracking it so you have to constantly improve and with the internet of things, every single one of those devices could be a potential intrusion point. So from a customer perspective, it's very appealing to them to be able to outsource this and then they have the ability to say, well, we outsource it to someone and it's got a high reputation, it's not our fault if there is a problem. So just for that reason alone, we see our customers are looking more and more to say how can we get help on the security side and then ultimately to do security, right, you have to have big data, you have to have pretty sophisticated analytics because you've got to be able to react in real time. So those two go hand in hand from my perspective. I'd like to maybe add, sorry about that. I'd like to maybe add something about the analytics piece, right, and certainly we are very involved in that. To me, if you look at all network and infrastructure and app analytics, the step one on that is the model, right? What is my abstraction model? What is the unit at which I get my data? The move from hardware to software while a lot of us do get very excited about using Commodity x86 servers, I think the bigger power there is in the fact that you move from a model that's very rigid and the data is lost in your systems to a model where you're able to pull back and the software holds the database for your entire infrastructure. The power of that is that you can run analytics real-time, you can run big data analytics against it and unlike in times past where most of analytics in our systems, it's kind of like going to a doctor, right? You go to a doctor, it gives you a prescription. That's great, you know, step one is driving the prescription but you still got to go right down to write it by the medicine and remember to take it along the prescribed times. What we can do now with software is that the prescription and the doctor are one. So for instance, in our system, what happens is that all the analytics which used to be post-factor, first of all, they're real-time. Second, instead of just letting an administrator know here's what happened in your network, go troubleshoot, go fetch, the system actually considers that and reacts in real-time. The only reason we're able to do it is because it's a software-based system, right? It can dynamically morph, change the shape of the network as the administrator or the end user sees it and we can use it for a variety of functions. We do it to ensure end user performance. We do it to ensure security, right? Where at a retail store, when credit card scanners misbehave, meaning that we had one customer where every 30 minutes there was one card scanner heading out to an IP in Russia and we were behind some of the leading security players who are not able to see it in that real-time model. We're able to identify, take corrective actions against the network and the reporting becomes post-factor. Here was the problem, here's how it got resolved. Sorry, there was someone else that wanted to talk. Yeah, so maybe I'm underselling some of the stuff. I'm trying not to just say IBM does all this stuff but we have a billion-dollar security unit that we obviously sell a lot of security stuff to all our operators. We have a group specifically invested within that group on blockchain right now, for example. We have another billion-dollar analytics unit that's a result of multiple acquisitions and we have things like Watson and our entire cognitive group using a lot of those analytics and building on it. So we have all that. All of this goes to our operators and telecom providers. And in terms of open source, IBM's obviously a huge contributor open source and in particular things like open stack which will form the base of a lot of NFV work, for example. I actually think there's an opportunity for an innovative company to go and do a carrier-grade version of open stack and adopt a business model similar to what Red Hat did with Linux, for example. And IBM participates in all that. So I just want to add one thing on security. One of the things I've noticed traveling around and talking to IT professionals is there's been a complete shift in the thinking around security. And traditionally what everyone thought about was how do you keep bad people out? A better lock on the door. Keep them off your computer, keep them off your device, keep them out. That's impossible. There's no lock that can't be broken. So people have forgotten, said, forget that. Now we're gonna shift gears to we gotta find who's already in. So all the focus now is finding the ones that are already in. And on average, they're in about three and a half years before they're detected. Doing enormous amounts of damaged accumulation of information. So it's really, it's a big shift now and that's where things like Watson come in because they can grind through massive amounts of data as they look for patterns. There's patterns of bad actors. Like why is this guy, Joe Doe, going to this proxy he shouldn't be doing at the same time every day. It's hard to find that as a network administrator. Only good science and math and computing can actually find the bad actor. So the whole thing's turned upside down. It went from keeping them out, defining the ones that are in and get that to happen as quick as possible. So it's a really fascinating shift to see that happen. Because even the best companies out here have been subjected to massive security extortion. It's not even a security, these aren't security breaches anymore. These aren't like kids having fun because they think, oh, I can crack down that. I can get through that firewall and have fun and show up. It's not that. This is state sponsored cyber terrorism. Every country out there have thousands of their best people trying to infiltrate. And if you want to see an amazing documentary, you gotta look at the Soxnik documentary about spinning up and spinning down those centrifuges in Iran. It's an amazing story that shows the level of what's being done in terms of security. It's scary as hell. So we are all, none of us are gonna be out, not gonna be able to play and pay very close attention to security and everything that we do. Because all it's gonna take is one problem and a complete brand can be impaired. Billions of dollars just gone. So security, I just think this is gonna get scary or scary. You watch this election. I mean, everybody was getting up in the morning. They were looking at the traffic. They could see the WikiLeaks in anonymous announcements. The whole world was just like waiting because they just accepted, oh, this is just security. It's like, yeah, they could be breaching everything. It's gonna be something new tomorrow. All right. It's really amazing. Agreed. Sorry about that. I can go on about forever. Yes, I think we all have a world of security concerns ahead of us. So not just on our networks. So we're running short on time and I would like to get in one more question quickly, some quick answers. So in just in case we have some questions coming in from the audience. All right, so my question is, so now we've talked about the differentiators and the features and the technologies that we need to be putting in our networks. So my question is, how are you implementing these things and why is it taking so long? Or is it just us, Silicon Valley people, saying, why is it taking so long when it's actually happening really quickly? So thoughts. I guess I can go first again. Sorry. The pace of innovations, operators look at a lot of the innovative ideas that come along. And when we look at, for example, the move from legacy services, from legacy TDM services over to IP. One of the problems operators face is actually a couple of problems. But the first big problem is, they're still making a lot of profit off their legacy TDM services. So the impetus to move over to an IP based service on optical technology where the margins are a lot less is sometimes hard, you know, because you're sitting there going, you know, I could run this along for another year or two and still be okay. And actually do very well, thank you. And it's very hard to do that, balance that when you've given forecast to Wall Street to say how much you're gonna earn and all this stuff. It becomes really difficult for operators to move this. And all these technologies are so highly disruptive. And so when you're the incumbent, if you remember the innovators dilemma, it's very, very hard for you to sit there and really embrace that disruptive technology. And so, and a lot of operators, certainly my carriers have said, some of their services, like they're all pot services, ISDN, you know, even X25 and some of these really old services, you know, they're in a business strategy called Managed Decline with these, you know, they're letting it decline slowly over time. Now, I have this conversation with them and point out that Managed Decline was the business strategy Eastman Kodak followed. So the important point is knowing to pick that tipping point when you move it over. And it's very, very hard to do, but this is one of the problems with the innovations. You know, we all like to go a whole lot faster, but it's, you know, we just finished paying for 3G. Now we're trying to pay for 4G and get ready to pay for 5G. Am I really gonna get my investment back? You know, it takes me a little while to do these things. And I'm moving from TDM. All right, so from the panel, obviously ROI, cost, legacy, any other reasons? Go ahead. Yeah, from the hardware perspective, I can tell you that we go through a very, very stringent testing process before we release any product or any upgrade to a product. And it's something that you as the consumer, technology company, you as the service provider, client that might be using our equipment, you want that. And it is because of that, that we've had no systems fail in the field in seven years. It's because of that that we have six-year customers that have 100% availability. So a testing, the rigid testing of both the hardware and the software is something that takes time. Isn't something that we will shortcut and the results are the results of the reliability that you want. So I just wanted to add that from one component. I just want to add. So there's also, once again, it's another one of these, the world looks at, there's two different ways the world is looking at this problem. In the Silicon Valley world, they live in what's called fast fail world. That says try it. If it fails, move on and try something else. The carriers work in a never fail world, right? Which is be thoughtful and deliberate, five nines and so forth. So they come at this from a completely different world. So let me explain how that impacts the marketplace. So all of this legacy that was just explained, the TDM, all these PRI connections, there's millions of them. They're all moving to SIP, right? Everyone is moving to SIP. So in the United States, who do you think is the second largest SIP provider in the United States? Twilio. Are they focused on quality deployment? Yeah, sort of. But they're really focused on getting into the market quick to service these Silicon Valley app companies. So there comes a point where you can't just focus on quality and reliability. You have to focus on speed to market. And this is gonna be enormously disruptive and it already is. And if these carriers don't move, like a lot of these legacy businesses do really well a long time by just defending their base and then they're gone. It's like, it just, bam, it hits critical mass and it's over. So these carriers, if they don't move, they'll come to a point where they'll wake up, they'll feel really good for a while. They didn't put any CapEx in, no OpEx in, they're just running. The PSDN network in the United States generates a $106 billion of revenue a year. You know how much CapEx they spend? $2.5 billion, you know how much the government gives them in subsidies? Four, the US government collects all your tax money and gives it to the telephone companies and they don't invest it in their network. So at some point, chicken will come home to roost. I can guarantee it. And Twilio is just that little, nobody's paying attention. He is chipping away. And if they don't move, they're gonna be gone. So Liz, I think what we're seeing is that innovation's happening in the smaller companies, and to your point, Craig, I think the larger carriers don't have the same incentive to innovate. So what we try to do as a data center provider is give our clients a choice and we look for the new technologies and not to be an advertisement, but you know, SDNs like Consul and Packet Fabric and Megaport, we're trying to bring those onto our campuses so that our Silicon Valley customers and other high tech companies can use this new technology. And I think the big guys will catch up. I mean, they'll balance out their revenue streams that they have in the new technologies, but I believe that the innovation really takes place in those smaller niche providers and then eventually they'll get bigger and they'll get bought and then we'll see what happens. I'm the startup on the panel. So I'm actually glad that Cisco moves really slowly and we get to become the next Cisco. But on a serious note, what it does mean for us is that the approach that we take to getting into the carrier network, into the customer network, right? So for us, what SDN and SD1 has done is we have an over the top approach, right? So we ignore legacy, we ignore what was there under the hood, it just doesn't matter. It could be bad, it could be good, but we come in over the top and ensure that the network that we deliver to our customers is really, really good. It does put some amount of investment from us in terms of how do we integrate with legacy. There is no referee place and those are impositions we put on ourselves, but that's a small price to pay to be able to significantly leapfrog what legacy vendors do. Well, I'm glad there's some pros to that. And David, if you have a last remark, it's up to you. Yeah, I think a lot of the innovation comes from the smaller startup companies. So we've been very acquisitive in buying companies and then also our partner ecosystem. We talked a lot about security. We've got a fantastic world-class partner named Fortinet and they're the best in the world of security. So we pull a lot of their capabilities in and provide that as a service for our customers. So in each area, we try to work with partners. And we have Fortinet here and downstairs. So I was hoping that we would have time to get to questions, but we've gone over our time. So I'm pretty sure the panel will be happy to take questions on one-on-one basis, right? During the cocktail at the meeting tables downstairs. So help me appreciate and applause for the panel. Thank you guys. And thanks to JSA for having us.