 Big shit, big shit, big shit, big shit, it's a unique hustle, nigga, big shit, big shit, big shit, name another podcast like this. Check it, check it, check it, it's a unique hustle, it's your boy, E-C-E-O, and I'm here with the lovely, fabulous Mr. Maker, what's going on? None of you doesn't know, my dad. Ah, man, it's going down. Hey, man, I got my guy here today, y'all. This guy, he family, man. We run in the same circles, man. Every time I've seen this guy with something on a positive note where it was something positive going on with what he was trying to do in this phase of his life, man. My boy Anthony Dewberry is in the building, man. What's going on, man? Hey, man, you know, man, just enjoying it. Let me redo that, man. The nigga that came, the nigga that worked with gang related, not gang related, is in the building, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah, man, real talk, man. Yeah, man, real talk, man. Salute the boss talk, man, one on one, man. Thank you so much for coming on the show, man. So I don't know if you've even been watching this episode with boss talk, man. And I'm always on it, man. You have a boy doing chief in there, man. Y'all can't even have a boy coming with him. But now, man, I've always tuned in to you since I met you, man. Wow, thank you so much, man. When I met you, when we talked over there with the kids, man, for spring break, a couple of little kids have been on here, too. They've been coming through the show. I've been checking it out. I've been checking it out, man. Them boys, they held us accountable. They held us to a standard, you know, of, okay, if I call you when I get out, will you look out for me? And that, you know, we already, my ministry was already reading letters or messing with inmates for us, making sure not to just forget where I came from. Just staying humble. And when I met Charleston, you know, he came through and gave me opportunity to start doing something in that area again. You know, up close and personal. I thought that was dope, man. So when that happened, every opportunity, not just him, but anybody that come to me that's trying to do something for the kids, for people that just get out in incarceration, I'm the type of dude that's going to rock with that because that's my ministry. We need more of you, my guy. Man, you too. Square business. Yeah. But I wonder how many of those kids actually been out and haven't even reached out to anybody. Man, probably a few. Probably a few. Yeah, probably a few. So I need to get Miss Ken because she knows who's been released from who hasn't. And I really need to get with her. It just dawned on me when y'all were talking. I'm like, I wonder how many, because we only had two that reached out. But how many of them actually came out? There were three. That reached out? Yeah, three. But one of them father wasn't, I think he wouldn't bring it. Oh, yeah, yeah, I remember. I remember that was three. But how many more, whether forgot about it or just like, man, I'm not even going, you know what I mean? Yeah. So for us to reach out to them just to double check on them? Yeah, exactly. But you know what though, just by those three that did check in, it kind of opened eyes up to everybody else though. Yeah. Because I'm going to be honest with you, bro. You know, we got a lot of people that go inside the facilities to talk. And don't do none. And at the end of the day, it's over with. Right? It's over with point blank period. So for a kid to be able to say, like I was watching the episode with the towel when he came in, I'm watching him. He was sincere, man. So it's like we, you see the sincerity in the kids that's saying, hey, man, I really need help. Right? But we sit around and we have everybody with the play play. They played a, they played a, the role of I'm really, I'm really for your types. You know what I'm saying? But in reality, you're not. These kids really won't help though. They really won't help. That's why you see them coming in. So what you're doing there is you create it to what the kids can really say. You know what? I mean, I always talk the real deal. And they talk to each other. They do talk. They do. Yeah. He said, cause when other one got in trouble or whatever, he knew about it. You know what I mean? But what I look at too, what I was thinking about, even when we were here with him on that show. Trayon. Trayon. Right. And I was saying that what we should do with Trayon is have him turn around now and help the other, help us help the other kids. Yes. Because although he hasn't gotten to a point where he needs to be settled yet and stuff like that. But helping others, it helps yourself. You understand what I mean? It keeps you out of trouble because you stay busy trying to help somebody else. So I really think that that's what should be another step included into the whole scenario is the successful stories of the boys coming out and we're helping them have them turn around and start reaching out. Cause they're the other kids ages where they'll listen to them and be like, man, you know, there's another way out when you come out. Dewberry. Let me, let's, let's, let's home back in. Let's pull it back in. Okay. Pull the ropes back in. Let's, let's, we want to know about Dewberry. Anthony Dewberry, who he is because there's been some alleged things said speculated of who Anthony Dewberry is. That way, man. Yeah, but we want to know just kind of like coming up. I know you from West Dallas. Yeah. We're respected through a lot of, a lot of cats that I've ran into, you know, asking about you. They were like, yeah, that's my gut. That's my guy, you know. So just tell us a little bit about who you are. What was you from? What they call it? Rupert Circle or fish trap? Where are you from over there? And I always tell everybody, man, you know, I'm from West Dallas, man. You know what I'm saying? People be like, what part of side are you from? You're from Rupert Circle. You're from fish trap or you're from Carl Helms. So I always tell people this here. I'm from West Dallas. Okay. The reason why I say that is because of this here. I stayed in Oakley. I mean, I stayed in on Rupert. I stayed on fish trap. I stayed across Helms. Okay. So therefore, man, I say West Dallas. You know what I'm saying? So that's just point blank. So you won't know who I am. I'm West Dallas. You know what I'm saying? Straight point blank period, man. You know what I'm saying? So that's just how it is, man. Coming up, when you came up, I know you got it ran into some trouble with the law. No, I want to go back before that. I want to know as a child. Uh-oh. Single mom, single dad. Why did you move to three different locations like that? Um, brother, sister. I want to know because nobody, no child is born just bad in bad stuff, whatever. We want to know how it started. See, that's the fact, right? That's what you just said is 100% fact, right? But I think I'm a different breed. I'm a different from a lot of kids that went through what I went through because I had a mother and a father. Okay. You know what I'm saying? They wasn't together. But they were in your life. They was in my life. Okay. So my daddy, he was, my dad always stayed in the North Dallas area. That was him. You know what I'm saying? He always, you know, he did what he did. You know, fur coats. That's him. Pimping? No. That's it. No, he didn't. Fur coats? That's his style. Night skins, fur coats. He worked at a fur company. Oh, okay. So he liked to show out. Yeah, that's him. You know what I'm saying? 2-8-Z. You know, motorcycles. 2-8-Z. Yeah, that's him. But so growing up. You saw all of that. I seen that. You know what I'm saying? He had a swag. My old man always had a swag. Okay. But my old man, I always lived in good areas. Okay. You see what I'm saying? And he didn't get all of that swag from being on the street. No. Okay, so you saw that part as well. So my thing is, I'm in the hood now. Okay. You see what I'm saying? With my teeth. My daddy wanted me to come over there with him. Okay. I don't want that. Because they had me falling over here. How old were you at that time? Man, I was 7-8. 7-8. My whole life. You know what I'm saying? But most boys want to be with their daddy. Not at 7-8. Not at 7-8. But see, it's not, it's not, see, what the kids do with it. It wasn't like, okay, you got, I got my dad, right? Mm-hmm. I respect him and love him. Mm-hmm. But I got a bigger brother. Okay. And you love him more. That's who I look up to. You get what I'm saying? Because he was there in your life a lot more. Yes. Every day. Every day. In the respect that he had. How old are you saying bigger brother? How much older are you? My big brother, like, 6 years older than me. Okay. He about 6 years older than me. Old enough that he doing some stuff. Yes. Exactly. Okay. So I looked it up to my big brothers. You know what I'm saying? He was my role model coming up. Okay, gotcha. Even though I can watch my dad do all of what he did and everything being positive in his life, I looked it up to my big brother. Then I had another brother too that's in the middle of us. Mm-hmm. And he, he's straight swear, you know what I'm saying? Everything good, you know? But your big brother, how was his relationship with your dad? Same father? No. Different father. Different father. Okay. So your father... How many years in between? Six. He says six. Your father didn't really try to be a father to the older? Yes. He did. But he wasn't successful doing that? My big brother lost his father when he was young. Mm-hmm. My big brother's father got killed. Okay. You see what I'm saying? My big brother had, he had, like, he was very, very, very, very, very, very, very aggressive. So... Had a lot of anger built up. Yes, he did. So during the separation of my mother and my father, you know what I'm saying? My father, doing what he's doing now, and my mother, she's raising us. Mm-hmm. You see what I'm saying? I get the opportunity to go with my dad. He didn't. Mm-hmm. You see what I'm saying? He didn't try to take him over there for the summers, for the days. My brother don't want that. He didn't want that. You know what I'm saying? Because you gotta realize that, okay, you dealing with, if I'm at seven, he had, like, 13. Right. You know what I'm saying? He a teenager. I want to do teenage boys. I'm in the boys' club. Then my time, like I said, my brother, he was boxing. He was doing everything. So this is what he do. So it was a gap to where, you know, he was doing what he was doing. You know what I'm saying? So I'm sitting here watching my big brother. But I watched. What I was fascinated with was the respect. Everybody had for him. The respect they had for him, right? So, and then now, as you grow, as you grow, as you grow and living in West Dallas, I always tell the person, man, you know, we live in a poor world. We live where you have to prove yourself to even come outside to go to the fucking, to the store truck, man. You can't even go to the kindergarten house. You gotta prove yourself without somebody trying to see, you know. Trying to test you. Trying to test you. You see what I'm saying? So I always was feeling like I don't want to grow up under that's his little brother. You know what I'm saying? So that was my mindset. No, that ain't, uh-uh. So I had to, you know, so that what made me start acting out. How old were you when you started acting out? Man, I was like, I mean, for as acting out, it was like, when I started doing criminal activity, I was like 13. 13? You did it so that early? Yeah, I was like 13, man. When I started just started dealing and dad was doing criminal activity. So did your father know about this? That you were, because, okay, because I was about to say, if he knew about that, he could come at 13, he could come and like, you coming with me, there's no choice. See, he didn't, he never knew. My mother never knew. How you kept it a secret from now? The reason why I did it because it was like this, right? My mom, she worked. When she came in, she going to bingo. Okay. So we got a gap to where we got action to do what we do. You see what I'm saying? So when I go outside to go shoot dice, or go outside to go, you know what I'm saying? When I first started selling weed, man, and I still, R.I.P. Kenneth Glove, the first person gave me some weed to say, right? But when I was out there selling weed, I got a time. And I know, okay, she's going to come in, she's going to go, okay, she's going to go to the bingo. So when she go to the bingo, okay, I'm going to go out. So I used to jump out the windows and, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we tried to keep, we had to keep, because she wasn't going for it. Your younger brother didn't tell it on you, because he said he was a square. Middle brother. He didn't tell it? He used to. See, he used to tell it. No, mama, he just jumped out the window, and she was like, right now, and she going to come and embarrass you, right? Yeah. Because she know you out there doing some stuff. Yeah, like, so now, you got to realize though, as a mother, my mother was like this to her. Not my baby boy. Not my baby boy. My baby boy ain't done that. So I knew I could ride that wave for so long. When I start in school, when you start getting into fights in the school, right, and it's like, hey, y'all getting into a fight in the school, then I come home, like, so you had to fight, yeah, man, he tried to jump on me, or now he did this, so she going to believe me. You know what I'm saying? Because she looking at me like, man, I'm the baby boy. I'm her baby boy. That's the way it goes. But even after so many, you would think that that would go out the window. She don't play by the sun. The only thing her body would, because I look at my son, right, and I see me and him. Is that scary? How old is he? That's my exact answer. How old is he? But is that scary? Yes, and that's the reason why I want him to stay with me so bad. Because I watch him and I literally see him. You see yourself? Oh, man. He'll say certain things and I'll be like, boy, this dude's up, just like I said. So, let's go. So, you shooting dice. Was you shooting dice with the Rambo's yet? Man, that's my... Charles did. I took over there. We asked about you. He was by influence. I took over to his house, didn't I? I worked out his house. He got a club. When I meet him, he seems... Because I hear stories about him, and I'm like, no, not him. Charles always been laid back. Charles always been laid back. He don't look like he could harm a fly. That's the reason why. When you see Charles, he always been laid back. He gone gamble. He always mind... When we go out to the gamble, he's going to try to get you, but I know you. See, Charles was the first person that I used to go with him. We used to ride in the car together. When you talk to Rambo, I remember when he used to go over to a girl house, and I used to go with him. In the home, he used to be like, ma'am, who was it? How old are you? I mean, I'm 18. Yeah, I was 18. Oh, he's 18? Yeah, he's 18. So I used to always lie about my age when I was around. You know what I'm saying? So, you know, yeah, man, we go way back, man. That's what I mean. Yeah, I just said gambling. I know it's going down. Now, let's get to the factor. A little further ahead. When did you get this time? Because you had to get this time early. I got this time in 1992. I was 15 years old. You were 15. They charged you as an adult. Yeah, well, I got... No, no, no. I had one T-Y-C. You went T-Y-C first? I went T-Y-C two years. So when you did that, did your mama say, I'm not my boy anymore? You know what's crazy part about it? What? At 15. At 15. At a club. Right? And I came home because I stayed around the corner from the club. Okay. She heard the shoe. She came out of the house and went over to her. By this time, I done made it all the way back to the house. Wow. But I would make a scene like, nah, I've been in the house all day. Right? So she like... Yeah, you know what they say? You killed that boy, right? I said, who they said? I did that. She said, yeah. You know what they said? You did that. I'm like, for real? She said, boy, yeah. I said, yeah. I'm finna call you daddy, too. Wow. So I'm like, you know what I'm saying? So now the police but when I run, I run to the project. I stayed in the house at the time. You know what I'm saying? But my old man came and got me. She like, listen. You ain't doing no running, man. Yeah. We finna go down here. You finna tell them folks what happened and this what we finna do. Wow. And daddy said the same thing. Let them kill you. See, I ain't finna let these lies kill you. You know what I'm saying? I ain't ready to see you inside this jail cell before I let one of these loud kids. Yeah, real talk. You know what I'm saying? So I still remember that when I went in turned myself in. You know, I went through the project, the process, you know what I'm saying? And I think, you know, at that time, you know, she was going through her emotional, you know what I'm saying? Seeing her baby son going through what he's going through. I'm talking about, but she is the reason why I was able to come home and transition the way I'm transitioning. Right? No, not when you turned 18. No, no, no. What I'm saying is like when I got in the beginning, in the beginning. Yeah. So when I, like I said, when I, once I received that time. And how much time was that? It was 28 years. When you're 15. You're 28 years, right? And I'm looking at her like, it's going to be all right. I'm going to make it home. You know what I'm saying? That's just what the thing I told her, like mama, I'm going to make it home. No, if I got to do 28 years, I'm going to make it home. You see what I'm saying? Because I had to accept the fact that I jumped off the porch into the fire. Into that fire. Trying to impress individuals, bro. I had to accept that. So I had to take that on my chin and do what I had to do. And that is go do my time. You see what I'm saying? So, you know, that's how that was. I went to TYC for two years. Went to TYC for two years and they sent me to the penitentiary. I mean at 17. You went to the penitentiary. Okay, but I remember you sent... It was 1995. 1995. You went through Guerni or you went through... No, I went through Diagnostics and Strait of the Frogs. You were on Rock and Roll unit. Strait of the Frogs. What I want to know is that, okay, because you said you looked up to your big brother. And he was in the streets too. At that time, he was fighting attempted murder. So as soon as I got picked up, they they ended up picking him up due to the fact that it was like the witnesses didn't want to testify saying that he was going to do some analysis here. So they once they picked him up, definitely started my trial. Was that his first time getting in trouble as well? No. No, he's... So when you had gotten that case and stuff, did he even say anything to you? As in like, you know, you think about a big brother, some, you know, words of wisdom, some, some. I know that he's down the same path, but did he say anything to you? I mean, one thing about my big bro, man, I think that he never... he didn't really want me to jump in this game. Because I never ever done criminal activity with my big bro. He could have stopped you. That wasn't his character. Because he know that you looked up to him. I don't think he was... when he... I'm looking at it like this here. When you got a kid, he's a kid himself. Mm-hmm. And he's living in his world. Mm-hmm. Right? I don't think he had the time to sit back and be like, my little brother, don't do this or don't do that. Because I used to steal my brother guns out the house. See, when I was coming up, I used to know how to pick the lock and go in there and get his guns and everything until he found out. We had a conversation in the conversation about jumping off the porch. Like, bro, if you do this, this what's happening. If somebody do this, bro, this what you do. I'd rather see you in jail than I'd rather just see you dead. So don't go out here and grab no pistol if you're not gonna do this. See what I'm saying? There's no conversations like this, you know what I'm saying? So... I feel like that, you know, it was pretty much like, man, if you want to be a street dude, I'm gonna give you the street gang. Because I can't change it. That's almost like the movie we were watching the other night. 50 Cent movie. Power. But it's Raising Cain. There was an episode where the mom wanted to keep him, which is 50 Cent, out of the street. You know, college go do this, go do that. But she's in the game. And eventually, he wanted so bad to be in the game, he went behind her back, there's some stuff. She eventually had to break down and show him how to do the game because ain't nobody's gonna teach him as good as the queen pin. You know what I mean? As much as she didn't want to do it. She wanted a better life from him because everybody who loves somebody don't want that life for you. So how was it going in? You are on the such and such unit. You will be... You know how they do it. They try to put the scare attack on you. You are already facing all this time. You're not trying to hear it. You only watch movies. Well, you had been in T.I.C. but you hadn't been to the big house. So that was a big move, too. That was a big move. He's been told all these stories, right? Man, for real. Because when you first get there, you don't know what to expect. What's the difference? The difference is, T.I.C. you got house parents. They're looking over you. They're really teaching you skills for you to better yourself in life. Okay. In prison when you get off the gate when I went to Ferguson they're trying to break you. It ain't about trying to school you. They want to see. Or if you weak, I'm going to break you. And these are the guards that are doing it? No, these inmates. These inmates ran the prison every time. Allow men to go to... Hey, we got a new ship and just came in. Hey, y'all don't go to Three Row. Here, go to Three Row. And you might fight three, four times. Back to back to back. And it's not fighting because to see, you know, they fight you because they want to break you. Does that depend on the unit you go to? Because I've known people who went to the Feds and so forth and they hear foregoing, they hear that this is how it is but when they go, it's not like that. Nah, I'm telling what you hear about Ferguson is what exactly happens. That one is like that. It's like, let's... You been to Ferguson? Prince Robinson. Ferguson was the gladator. Really the gladator for them. Out of all of them. It's during that time, he talking about... Is it like that now? They had one down there. It ain't like that no more. They had one down in El Paso or no, Mexican unit that was kind of comparable to it during that time. I know some of the name of it. It's in Hondo. Yeah, it was like, but Ferguson unit for me, when I thought about it I'm like, damn them young black niggas over there acting a fool. I know you go to diagnosis. My little partner said they had a day out there called freaking Friday, that's what he would call it. Freaking Friday. What does that mean? Man, you a go-to-the-wreck y'all. He said cut one eyebrow if he didn't know. You don't know who you're going to fight. Just go-to-the-wreck, everybody go-to-the-wreck y'all. And somebody's going to tell you, hey, you come here, let's go, we finna fight. Yeah, freaking Friday. And it was a thing where... And the guards didn't say none. No, the guards used to line up. You like... And let y'all fight. Yeah, I literally like, this is like... No, this is man, I'm talking about... I seen something like that in the movies. The cabin, the lieutenants used to come outside on Friday just to see me fight. When I was on close-ups. Were you that bad of a fighter? I just... I mean, I just knew how to... I wanted it to be betting, gambling, on the inmates. It ain't even that. When it was more byword, it was more like... I told you about him. I told you innately, that's how it was. So that's why I say like... Going to Ferguson, aw, man, it was... That's... That's a... That's a reality check. I mean, I can't really... It's so real because... I heard... You heard people talk about the stories? Yeah, I heard the stories. And then you heard people say, try to... Some people try to glorify the situation, right? Come on, man. Aren't you right? But I'm going to tell you something in this reel, right? You can't glorify that. You see what I'm saying? You got them some... I call them knuckleheads because... We'll go down there and fight probably and be like, man, I'm the king. I'm the king. I did this. I did that. You can't do that. You can't... You see, over there, it's impossible. Why? You going to meet your match? A fight? You had a fight? That's... No, you... Man, after about like, literally, you might have about five, six fights in one... So nobody could say that they was like... No, it's impossible. Because you got individuals... People that's holding it down. Like, when I went there, it was about the cities. Dallas, Houston, whatever, right? But I was gang-related. You see what I'm saying? So when I came in, you know, we got West Dallas, you know, everybody... But Dallas is Dallas, you know what I'm saying? But at that time, oh, Cliff used to have a clique. They had a clique gang that was awesome. They had... You going to fight seven niggas. Seven niggas. Them niggas had a clique that was bar. So that's how it was. You see what I'm saying? But I kind of branched off on some gang shit. Because I really didn't like that shit. Mm-hmm. I didn't like that chicken. I didn't really like it. But you got to realize something that you mind your business until you get into a position to change. Yeah, yeah. So I knew my thing. So now, they like, damn, bro, you know, anybody... Yeah, you fighting. I'm fighting every day. Why? It's because I'm trying to build up a reputation. Mm-hmm. You see what I'm saying? In the reputation I'm trying to build up is to put me in... I'm going to get into certain position to where nigga, I'm going to... nigga, I'm going to change the game. Nigga, I ain't... but I'm so advanced and I was always on point. Did anybody get killed? Oh, yeah. I mean, that's like... In the fight? In the fight. It's nothing. Man, I... And the guards are there and they could have stopped it. I'm going to get ready to go with y'all. Mm-hmm. This back then allowed... You can be coming down a child walking in the hallway. We got a peer wonder. Whenever you see somebody with a jacket like this, guess what? They have a shank. No, just keep walking. Because it's a punk in front of him and he's fucking him. Wow. A lot right there. Know what's going on. Telling everybody, y'all keep going. Thanks. See what I'm saying? And I get it. I get it. That's how... corrupt the system was. And then we couldn't even... If you go to breakfast, you better go to breakfast at least by 10 D. Mm-hmm. I mean, them lies was beating them. But... They literally was on purpose talking to you. You motherfucker, you know? So you can just say, huh? So put your head against the wall, hit your head against the wall, brush your nose, boom, beat you down. The crazy part about that is you have an endurance and they leaving you on that unit because you got a long time. Some people hit cold field, some people hit Ferguson. There was some Clements unit. Some people, you know, but you own the Ferguson unit and you doing your time. How much time did you do that? I did 11 years over there. You had to deal with that for 11 years. I did 11 years over there. And that was a tough time. From what year to what year? I got the... I got the 90... I got the 95. And I left there like 2006. Wow. Did you ever build up your reputation to a point like what you wanted? Nah, I was a big doll. Nah, I was a big doll. Did you make any changes? I made a whole lot of changes. When no civilian, check and now, Crip, they came through the door no more. You know what I'm saying? It couldn't be no Crip messing with no homosexuals. Nah, I made a huge muckers change in it. Wow. I want to talk about the part where people don't like to talk about it, but I always tell people when you go to prison, you get naked a lot. It's so demeanoring. For the people to come out, they don't tell you this part. But people get naked all day long. All day. It's like a normal thing, but it's not normal. But say look at the guys who play sports. When you go to take a shower, you're in front of a whole bunch of guys taking a shower. But you ain't bending over and letting them look up your butt and all that. Oh, so that's what you're talking about? That's not normal. But when you're saying, you know, showers and stuff like that, I'm not thinking about that part because I would never know about that part. Oh, they're telling you to bend over, but you're talking about guys, you know, all y'all just go take a shower at the same place. Nah, it ain't like that. It's demeanoring you. You get used to, your mind got to be strong. But for you to have to get naked and you go outside, come back in, whatever you doing, pull your pants, you know, all that. You gotta realize somebody football player what you talking about. They going inside the shower, they coming out the shower and doing what? Putting a tile over them. If you put a tile over you in prison, you are gay. Really? Huh. That's a skirt. No, no, that's a no-no. So when you come out from taking a shower you just go straight to... No, you take a shower, you get in a line and it's a line, that whole line everybody naked. Everybody naked. To go get your clothes or to go get a towel? To go get your towel in your clothes. And you wash out, you dry out, and you put your clothes on. You gotta tell your little homies they come in from the world because they thinking like you. Right. Man, I'm finna put my tile on me. Hey, man, say, don't do that, boy. You know, it's prison break you down to the lowest. Prison make abnormal things normal. Normal. Like you wish to be alone. Yes, it break you down. It literally break you all the way down to the world. I can have a conversation with you now in your mind you'll be like I did you survive that. But then you have some people who come out of prison and want to go back. They the craziest people in the United States of America. No, but serious. Have you never met some people who purposely come out and get in trouble to go back because they're not used to this life out here. I'm gonna be honest with you. I don't think that a lot of them want to go back. I don't think that but I think a lot of them they don't know nothing is. They don't know nothing is right. So when you come out here they look at that to survival. They forget about what happened inside the institution. You see, I'm saying so what they they do what they do not thinking that it's going to lead them back to they very insane. So I see people go back down and I be like but when they get in the county we are to hit them and they like man, damn bro you hear the conversation because they know they got to go back, right? So I don't think they want to go back it's just that a lot of them don't know nothing. Exactly. They don't know nothing to be honest. Let me ask you something and this here is just I guess moving forward a little bit as far as you when you do this time what was the next unit that you hit? I hit Ellis 1. Ellis 1. That was the whole transformation when I hit Ellis 1, bro. What was so different about that? When I hit Ellis 1 I had put in I had put in for college I had put in for college like three years, you know what I'm saying so I think they forgot about it. They ended up calling me for this college trade, right? Man, when they came and told me that I'm going to leave first and go to another unit. That had to be something else too. Boy, I feel so great. Really? Oh man. You was happy. Man, I was the happiest man I thought I'm April. It was that bad at first and you were like damn. But you would think that you top dog now so you running stuff down there that you would be. But you got to realize something I got on a suit come guess what when I get inside that cell I got to take that suit off I got to read that letter and say baby mama sit wow baby this is going on in the world you see what I'm saying so I got to take that suit off and go to reality when I go to visitation and I'm looking at mama and mama hurt but when I come back out that cell I got to put a suit back on because I can't show no weakness you see what I'm saying you see what I'm saying Did you have a cell mate? Yeah, I had a cell mate so my thing was I got to get away from this place man you know what I'm saying How different was Ellis unit versus Ferguson unit? Man, when you hear when I hear you got to realize Ellis one is the old death row so people that was on Ellis one had a death sentence so when they passed that law and gave everybody mandatory life sentences they all is over there so majority of that unit have the mandatory life sentence but they was all on death row you see what I'm saying so when I hit that unit I see number old like old school nigga I said I can't do this And how old were you at the time when you got over there? At that time, yeah I'm like in my 20s now like 20 27, 26, 27 so I'm like I can't do this I said no I can't do this right but so when I went to class I put in for a college I don't want to come here man I said I'm already gonna go back when I was seeing the old they were like I'm like no so they're like no you're gonna stay here you know what I'm saying but when I went down the hallway I was like man they had TVs on the room they got TVs on the room you sit in your cell hook up and listen to TV all day you're living a life man it was different right so I'm like man it's crazy you know what I'm saying man he grew up in this crazy environment but now this is the catch though I'm living years in a gang hole right the old nigga you talked to now that nigga 30 years in a hole wow you get what I'm saying they giving you wisdom over there that's all they do but when you think about when I be thinking about life first and this is just me in my head I'm thinking they're gonna be trying to fight you all the time all that stuff because they have nothing to lose and not like they can stack up no more time they want to fight their old niggas they're chilling but that's where my gang came from when the old school niggas set me to the side and we sit down having the real conversation when I first got over there it was on the basketball court young niggas out of Houston and we hooping I still remember I was there about three days nigga had to flush from one right that when the old school like say man listen this ain't that kind of unit bro you know what I'm saying sit back chill bro this is what you do man this is player bro you over there you over there for to get to it yeah so now he like he's saying like that homie look you young the female they like it bro listen bro it's wide open so now you like for real cause you know in Ferguson if you mess with a female you gotta be like you gotta it's different you see what I'm saying but over there they were walking in the hallways at the ball like this and we said female you meant talking about female guys yeah you like to see over there what's up baby god damn you know what I'm saying they straight getting to it man they getting to it I'm telling my life and I'm like I'm like they don't like it over you know what I'm saying it's wide open bro you know what I'm saying but we had an awarding over there it was his philosophy man I know y'all like the listen I don't care what you do you mess with the officers that's something y'all if you get caught respect the game I'm gonna send y'all away to Cancun respect the game that's where he used to tell us so it wasn't like they were tripping over there it was man it was a man I'm twice different right but the game that you get from the old school and you looking at this old school right he been locked up 30 years flat and you sitting there like man if I don't get my life together I'm gonna be just like this cause you ain't never seen no old god that's been locked up that long when you on a young unit you see what I'm saying you ain't seen that remember that y'all ain't never saw that right so I'm sitting there like and they never getting out they ain't never getting out they gonna pull up they ain't shaped you watching this I'm like man this is real man reality check and you becoming a short time at this time really exactly so now my mind said I mean I'm finna get ready to go to the house but you gotta remember like I always told you you can't mess up for 11 years straight and do two years and see parole and think they finna let you go that what I thought you know what I'm saying until they like I'm like man I been chilling for the last two years you messed up for the last 11 years you know what I'm saying so I'm like now we over there like I said now you can get caught up in the system over there how many years did you spend over there I stayed over there six years now six years because I went to Beto I stayed on Beto six and a half months and I came home but when you was over there and you was getting denied parole how many times did they deny you man I got denied I know I don't even know how many times I kept getting two years set up my last couple of years I got one year set up like three times do they have a limit on how many times they can deny you they do that many times because I got a partner still in there and every time you come up they had the issue with they show up to keep them in there what I'm saying is when you finally got up L5-1 and L5-2 L5-1 you were 45 days you was ready to go 45 days you get into the house so you were like man boy I got that L5 not to the house you mean to the halfway house no home so you didn't have to do a halfway house I was on the monitor though for like six days you know what I'm saying so you go in at this early age and you young like you you were 15 and you come out at what I was 30? 31? like 30 I don't know I like 31 and you didn't have no kids before you went in right 33 when you come home you Jesus age you come in at 15 boy the world has changed oh man tremendously everything has changed