 So I was in Melbourne recently and got the opportunity to catch up with Rob Eaver He's a GM of SRAM here in Australia and he was kind enough despite the fact He's just got back from Tura, California And he was on a United flight and I think he might have picked up a little bit of a bug But he's kind enough to walk us through the differences between two of the hottest Groupsets on the market right now SRAM access e-tap red and force now I'm hoping to get my hands on both these group sets so I can give a Review more about riding experiences later down the track So in this video we focus on the differences in the two groups. That's more from a technical perspective So let's get into it. I think you've got to go back some years to why we developed e-tap and the first That's about right yeah 2015 we came out with SRAM e-tap and e-tap was the first Anywhere in the world of a wireless shifting model So we developed that and we come up with our own systems our own protocol, you know It comes up with area people call it Bluetooth. It's not it's its own operating system It's actually really hard to find you can't even find it with a phone or an app or anything like that It's quite difficult to find the transmitting Signals between the shifters and the rear derailleurs and it's a little bit complicated and certainly above my pay grade So we developed that and that was a great group set, you know, it was a big step forward But when we developed that some six seven years ago when we're in development and testing and all the rest of it We knew we could do better, but we bought at the market. We were very happy with it But the fundamental problem from our point of view is it was wireless and it talked together itself But it didn't talk outwards right axis is axis all areas So it's looks like a excess but it's axis all areas So it means it'll talk to other components. It'll talk to your phone It'll talk to other things and you never know what's going to happen in the future There's going to be more parts is talking to so the old E-tap didn't have an app did it but the new one does that's exactly right So, you know, we came with a dongle and we were going to do some upgrades to it We found out we didn't need it to or whatever because we had this in our back pocket So if you think about let's talk about phones back seven or eight years ago You might have had an iPhone 3 or 4 it might have had Bluetooth it might have had Wi-Fi You know and it was pretty sporadic I don't think it'd be able to run a new app location on the old iPhone 2 or 3 or 4 You know, we progress and circuit boards and everything has progressed so much more in the last seven years Now we can get the system better. It works better shifts faster. Everything's better with the new system So rather than developing the old system We decided to put a line in the sand and let's look at everything what we did with not only red 22 mechanical with Axis 11 speed and bring it to a new speed which is now the industry standard at 12 speed as we've got a mountain bike And we've had for many many years. I believe camp eggs 12 speed as well And we've done that and we've been able to achieve a lot of different things from straight block cassettes to We've been able to use ear clutches so writers can choose how they want to write how they want to set it up They can choose one by or two by in the past you had to go and you know Choose a dedicated one by groups that are a dedicated to buy now. We're kind of cross-pollinating this thing So why 12 speed like, you know, that's one of the key fundamental differences Well, we can get more From 12 speed that we can get with 11 because we can go down to a 10 tooth now So just like we did with mountain biking where we have the eagle system that runs down to a 10 tooth It goes up to a 10 to 50 gives you 500% range. So we can start off at a 10 speed 10 tooth cog at the rear 10 speed 10 tooth cog at the rear and then we can go give you three different cog ratios 28 right now I'm sorry a 26 28 10 to 26 10 to 28 and 10 to 33 Yeah, so we've got three different cog combination depending what you live depending where you are if you lived in Beach Road You might not need a 33. Yeah, no if you live in the hills like myself I like the 33 because it gives me the option of the bail out gear as well So before we talk about the differences between force and red there's a lot of synergies isn't there between The two groups there are there are I mean it shares all the same electronics the same batteries the same basic hardware Where we've been able to get the cost down is the end use of materials and we've been very smart with that You know where you know previously We would use a carbon cage on both sides of the the red rear derailleur For example the force one would use an aluminium in a cage and a carbon one on the outer cage And just a little bit less expensive finish as well, and it would come with Some different hardware and stuff. So we'd be able to save a little bit more money on that So what's the weight difference between those two? Oh, we can check that real quick. We're not really set there. So this one here Normally comes up around 220. So what's that the force? That's the red. Oh, that's a red. Sorry We'll go to the force now And we're looking to 240, so it's about 20 grams. Yeah You know and that's a significant price difference, but there's a weight difference and it and It evanes just on the rear. Yeah, okay, and that and but that goes But that goes across into other components, right, so So this is made out of one piece billet stainless steel that's a final cog is an aluminium Clipped on part, but that's one piece. That's about a 24-hour process In the machining of that a lot of work. Why is it 24-hour process? because the machining to machine it starts with lifeless is about a three kilo block of Billet stainless steel and it comes out like that. Wow a lot of work a lot of checking a lot of measuring to get 140 I thought it said 740 142 so there's a 60 grand 60 grand difference in that just in that so you can see there's little pins holding all this together It's a stop the flex and and keep it all together. Yeah, and there's little pins in there This one doesn't have any that it's all one piece. Yeah, okay So what about the similarities like the chain is the same is it? No, the chain is completely different So yeah, the chain is different. So this would be a force one. So it's not hollow so that the The red one would have hollow pins. This one doesn't have a hollow pin. What does a hollow pin do? The hollow pin just gives you a little bit less weight I'm not sure it's it's definitely not a strength disadvantage, but it gives you a lot less weight And there's a lot more machining process than that, but as you can see going to 12 speed You know, I think if you believe all the online people, they're gonna say all the chain's gonna be weaker This is actually the strongest road chain. We've ever made Yeah, how do you know that? We know that because we make all our chains in-house So you remember the old SAC CD chains from back in the 80s. That's this chain. That's effectively the same factory in Portugal This is the same chain A chain is a very strong part if you pull it straight on like if you're doing this pulling it straight on It's a very strong part. Yeah, but the moment you start cross-chaining like we're asking them to do on On road bikes you start doing that. That's where you start to get the problems. Yeah So now we're going to 12. It's wider. We're effectively cross-chaining more But with this chain, it's so much stronger And what we've had to do is put extra extra We've taken material out to make it 12 speed but now we're making it Stronger by putting material back into the top of the chain. That's where it gets his nickname flak top Right, so the and the other part we do is we have a hundred percent join link So it's a the SRAM power lock. That's a 12 speed joining link and That is a hundred percent as strong as anything else in the chain So when you put that on it's a once you saw once use item only and you put that on and it's as strong as the chain It will be in any other port. It's not the weak point anymore Wow Yeah, so, you know, and we haven't had chain problems for a long long time touch wood We're going very well. We control it But what we have people is if it's SRAM keep it SRAM don't put any other brand on there Because you know, there's some brands already running around saying it's actually compatible. It's not true SRAM is designed to work with SRAM and what do you got here? You're showing me this stuff before So with the crank systems and this is another big fundamental part the difference between red and force So this is a one-piece operation. So this is again a CNC part one piece with a power meter incorporated, right? So it's a really nice piece and We're saying we're going to get double the use out of our previous chain rings with this system It's stronger double. We're saying it's more like double now as long as again, if you get the chain clean and Not over lube not under lube. It's quite but what we've what we've done is we've actually increased the size of the diameter of the Pickup points here or the grips of these chain rollers. You'll find they're going to be bigger as well Right to suit with 12 speed We're going to be bigger even on a 12 speed. So it is so so the gaps between The cassettes these are actually bigger than 11 speed. So 11 speed chain won't work on this Yeah, so we've drawn a line in the sand 11 speed to 11 speed 12 speed is a new standard in fact our mountain bike Chain will not even work on this. It has to be access road flat top that will work with this And it's all about making the system work together as one. So what's the difference here then? So this is your traditional two-piece. So this is has your bolts in there We asked you not to change configuration because we're going 13 tooth jumps in the in the cassette in the in the chain ring range But what we've done is it's got new profiles again. This is the 2-byte system and And it's offering that 13 tooth jump and we we're saying keep that together keeps RAM chain rings on it It'll work amazingly again It's not going to fit if you put an aftermarket chain ring on there with that chain You can see you can see the teeth profile on the 1-byte That's a 1-byte aero ring, but look at the teeth profile on this. So this is called x-sync 2 And this is designed to keep the chain on, you know as much as you can and and it's quite involved Um, I don't think we had the range. I don't think it was for everyone And we're not telling people to put 1-byte a lot of the Pro Tour guys are choosing 1-byte now Like I ride 1-byte on the gravel. I love it. I like it on some applications on the road But the problem is with 1-byte It's still not sure it's ready for 80 kilometers now the rider that can do 80 kilometers now and 8 kilometers now on the same bike Yeah, like that's quite a variation to have that single step jump and on our road shifters So on red you have two ports on each side so you can have shift Logic up here with little blips and you can have money tt bar or at the front if you wanted to sprint We're forced we are offering you to so you can have my peer all there. You can't have it both applications Okay, right. So there is kind of kind of a lot of differences there. There is kind of a lot of differences Yeah, you'll see it's not just wait. No, it's not just wait. No, no any extent. I mean if people like that You know the chrome blingy look the red has got it, you know that the force is more of a gray Stuffy look I like the force. I think it's great You know, I've been riding it a long time and then the other thing we might notice as well We might talk about is dub so everything on the new stuff is now dub which means durable Universal bottom bracket. So it's not a new system. It's a solution to all the problems are out there So previously bike shops our distributors would have to carry G XP That have to carry BB 30 and then they have to have all the bottom brackets And now dub fits on the majority of those bikes and you just want the bottom bracket out Which is the 30 40 dollar upgrade and the bottom bracket is more durable. Everything's working better with dub You're up and it's it's it's a godsend for people that don't want to stock all these different types of cranks And every time you buy a new bike you got to buy a new crank or whatever dub will work on the majority of bikes Yeah, okay, cool. It's exciting. Yeah, it is. All right. Thanks for I'll get some lemon tea into you