 China and Brazil, on Wednesday, reached a deal to trade in their currencies, dumping the U.S. dollar. The deal will reduce their dependence on the U.S. dollar, given that China is Brazil's biggest trading partner with a record U.S. $150.5 billion in bilateral trade in 2022. The deal comes months after the deputy director of the Russian Foreign Ministry, Foreign Policy Planning Department stated that the BRICS countries are working on establishing a new reserve. That reserve currency is supposed to better serve their economic interests. The BRICS, a block of emerging market economies comprising Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa, accounts for 26% of global GDP. China and Brazil, on Wednesday, reached a deal to trade in their currencies, dumping the U.S. dollar. The deal will reduce their dependence on the U.S. dollar, given that China is Brazil's biggest trading partner with a record $150.5 billion in bilateral trade in 2022. The deal comes months after the deputy director of the Russian Foreign Ministry's Foreign Policy Planning Department stated that the BRICS countries are working on establishing a new reserve currency to better serve their economic interests. The BRICS, a block of emerging market economies comprising Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa, account for 26% of global GDP and 20% of global trade, and more than 40% of the world's population. As of the 4th quarter of 2022, exports and BRICS accounted for 16% of Nigeria's total exports, while exports to the U.S. were at the same period only 7.15%. Analysts say that the increasing influence of BRICS requires that Nigeria strengthens diplomatic ties with the BRICS, while diversifying the complexity of its exports. Algiers, Argentina, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Iran, Egypt, Mexico, Nigeria, Pakistan, Sudan, Syria, Turkey, the United Arab Emirates, Venezuela and Zimbabwe are among the countries showing interest in joining BRICS. Well joining us to discuss the directing part of joining the BRICS forum in Nigeria and its political space is Iken Agbaso, a political analyst. Good evening and welcome to the program. Thank you very much my brother, good to have you. Okay, just so we break down the grammar as Nigerians will say, just tell us a little bit more about what this BRICS really is. So as rightly said, it is multiple countries coming together to try and change the general trajectory that the world has been going in, which is dollar. So Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa and a whole list of other countries, about 13 countries have all applied including Nigeria have applied to join the BRICS. As you said earlier that I was even unaware, Nigeria has exported 16% to BRICS and about 7% to America. So that means we already have established relations with the BRICS. So this is welcome news for Nigeria actually, because now our currency is going to increase in value. How is that going to be? Okay, perfect. So the reason the dollar is as strong as it is is because it's the trading currency of the world for oil, which goes all over the world. So now all the oil producing countries are part of BRICS or are joining BRICS or have applied to join BRICS. So if they are no longer using this trading power to trade. As if you mentioned trade between China and Brazil, 150 plus billion just last year. So imagine taking that away from the dollar and that being thrown into another currency, the yuan or rubies or the different currencies that they're going to now use. This is an advantage for countries that are part of that. But is this just breaking the monopoly of a dollar or it's just a rebellion against the dollar or there was a real necessity for this to happen? Well, we say in a democratic world that monopolies should never exist. Right? That's part of democracy. That monopolies don't need to exist. Why is the dollar the only trading currency in a global world? There's nothing wrong with the second option. And I imagine that this is going to make boats. There are some people who are afraid that all joining the BRICS is going from fire, from frying pan to fire, going from America to Russia and Chinese rule. Do we know what that is like and the rest? Right? We understand that fear. But it is always good to have multiple options. We should be able to use and no, I wouldn't. I mean, there's a lot of sentiment that can be attached to this shift away from the dollar. Of course, the Russia-Ukraine war definitely impacted that because Russia yesterday at the UN or the day before yesterday, they said, well, we cannot trade in dollar. We're not allowed to receive dollar. We still need to trade. So those that are fine with trading with us, we use another currency then. So that's necessity. They've been pushed to the wall and are reacting in that manner. But apart from them, whatever is moving them to make this move, me here for Nigeria, I'm happy with. Well, what I'm seeing here is that for a very long time, America has had that monopoly. And they've controlled the world economy because the dollar is the trading currency as it is. I'm not too sure America will take it lying down low. But what do you think that they might want to do to stay relevant? Well, someone said to me today that, yes, oil, part of the reason the dollars are strong as it is, is because it's the currency that is used to trade oil. So the situation now is, I believe that this is actually going to make America be more diplomatic and friendly to other people. Because they are making more enemies. So it is going to be a time where they're going to approach foreign diplomacy a bit better. People say, oh, China does better. They come and build roads and this and that and set up infrastructure in your countries. What did America ever do for you? What has America ever built for you here in Africa? You know, there are those arguments, you know, but as I say, I think this is welcome because this gives Nigeria a chance where going into a phase where we're industrializing more, we're going to go heavily into industrialization. This is where Nigeria should be. We really haven't seen that move to industrialize a country as it were. Because what I was asking how this is an advantage to us is that if the Naira, for instance, is very weak against the dollar, the factors that make the Naira to be weak are mostly like the fact that we are not a very industrial, an industrial nation as it is. We don't produce as much as we consume. That is why our money is so, so low against the dollar. When we change from the dollar to any other currency and the situation of the country is the same thing. It means, in my layman's head, it means that we're just moving our misfortune from one place to the other. Because we're not prepared to go and tap into that advantage that a different currency will give us. The truth is, yes, despite the economic climate not being favorable enough to industrialists, where only a few can afford to go through the pains and struggle of power, this and that, right? Can afford to go through that, I think there are still a lot of people that are daring to still invest in Nigeria because Nigeria is the best investment. So there are still some moves, yes, we may not be moving as fast. And not enough of us are investing in Nigeria, yes, but some are. And it's a great time for us. Because, yes, by the way, to this, I'm not saying we should join and just join from one party to the other. No, I'm saying join and actually use our heads. Nigerians, we need to industrialize. And both difficult, though extremely difficult. What are some of these things that are making the economic climate, for instance, not being favorable for investment and industrialization that we're looking for? Of course, the standard one, which is security. For foreign investment, the biggest issue is security in Nigeria, insecurity in Nigeria. For us locally, for us Nigerians, I would say poor infrastructure. Poor infrastructure is what is making us struggle. When I say poor infrastructure, of course, I'm talking about power. Inability to get power and if you're able to get it, the cost of it is an arm and a leg and maybe a bit more. So such examples. So that is why these are factors that, yes, I think we are going to beat. But if we beat these factors, it's not because we have jettisoned the dollar, for instance. It's not because we are now using yuan. How do they call the currency? Yuan. We are now using yuan or any other currency. I would have expected that countries that want to join the Briggs have something to bring to the table. So that when the argument comes, we know that we also have something to hold the other countries. I don't want to use the word to ransom and all that. But if we are going empty handed, as it is, just because every other country is clamoring to go. Apart from that, we are producing oil. Okay. Let us re-identify Nigeria. Because despite all the problems that Nigeria has, Nigeria is still the heart of Africa. And Nigeria is the spearhead of Africa. Nigeria is value on its own. Nigeria is one of the most valuable countries in the whole world. It's people that have not accepted Nigeria's identity and its value. There's enough value in every single state in Nigeria for every single state to be self-sustainable and not need trade beyond the next state. They don't even need to import anything. So you believe this alliance with the Briggs would give us the opportunity to explore our potential to the full? Yes. I mean, what I'm saying is that it's a better economic climate. A better economic climate naturally betters the possibilities of things growing. We need the oxygen to breathe for us to function. So this is an example. What's in my estimate, I don't know if I should say this on air, but in my estimate we should have $400 to $1 by the end of the year. By the end of the year? Maybe. But we're still talking dollars, you see. We're so used to dollar. That means because of this, because of the shift from the dollar, the value of the dollar will come down as well. Automatically. And that of the Naira will go up. I don't know much about this economics and all those things. But my concern is, okay, a group of countries has decided to come together to form an alternative alliance, to form an alternative economic climate as it were and all that. And everybody that is coming at this time is like a pioneer for this formation that they are going to do. And I'm just thinking about what Nigeria, apart from the fact that we have a population which itself is a market, a very big market for everybody to want to come and invest. But what else are we offering? What are those things? What is even our foreign policy that will make us tap into this opportunity so much so that we will move at a pace that we want to move? I'm just... Well, I cannot speak on behalf of our government or our new coming government. I cannot speak on behalf of them. I don't know what policies and how they are going to handle foreign alliances. I don't know. But if you were to advise, what would you say, going into this kind of alliance? What are some of the things? What Nigeria needs is to produce. Nigeria needs to manufacture. We have all the raw materials we need. We have the human capital. We have the capital. Let us work. That if Nigeria does that, if... I believe that the pressure, any government that is ruling is under pressure. From now on, people might say not much was accomplished in this last election. What was accomplished is that whoever rules, he knows now that Nigerians are watching him. And you need to work. You need to actually work. Accountability is great. It's about time our leaders became accountable to the people. And we're heading in that direction. So that is progress. So I expect a better economic climate so we can all go and work. That is my hope. We were looking at the implications of what Nigeria was bringing to the table and all that. But let's come back to the local economy. Because when people begin to hear that we're not so much interested in trading in the dollar and all that, with that confusion that comes, what are those benefits that will be accruable to the local people in the local markets, the local sellers, the local industrialists, the local barbers, everybody who is trying to contribute one thing or the other to the economy so that when we grow, we grow together. Okay. Well, as I said earlier, I think the dollar is going to lose sizeable margins. So that actually, what is going to happen internationally that is going to devalue the dollar, gives us the chance to trade more. You can buy, you'll be buying dollar for cheaper. You can buy more stuff for cheaper. The dollar is not going to get phased out in a second. It's still going to be a trading currency, just not at what is the current rate now. Whatever the current rate now is 750, 760. I'm saying it's going to be a lot lesser, which gives us more trading ability. Your barber, your farmer, everybody can afford some more things. Do you understand? Yeah, I'm trying to understand because now the dollar is high because anywhere in the world you're trading, it is the dollar that's going to be used. But if the diversification now happens where you can use another thing, for instance, you use the yuan, which is the Chinese currency, and most of our imports and exports are going to the countries like China that we're using their currency, common sense will just tell me that it is possible that the yuan will rise in value more than even the dollar because even when we're trying to export, we're not exporting much from America. We're exporting more from the Asian countries and all that, from the Asian countries from China and then from Europe and all that. So if this is happening, is it not just... I'm still just trying to understand, is it just not that the dollar that is from the West where we are not doing our trade much from is no longer having this value, but the place we are doing the trade much from, which is like China and all that, is now having the currency that has a higher value here. Will it not affect us the same way the dollar is affecting us right now? Well, you know that we're going to still West, we're an oil producing country. So the major product in this whole mix... I don't even know if we can call ourselves an oil producing country. We mine oil. When it comes to the real production... No, no, no. But also, Dengote's refinery is coming very soon. Very, very soon. So the story, the dynamic is changing already. Slowly. I know it's not moving as fast as we needed to, but you cannot lie that the dynamic Nigeria is advancing and progressing. For sure, just not quickly enough, because the rights parties are not involved. There are too many personal angles involved, rather than what is best for the people. So these things are what are slowing us down. We definitely need to all demand more from our leaders. I believe the progress we've made from these elections is more the accountability level is a lot higher. The demand from the people, from their leaders to work, is so much higher. So I believe these little things, they might seem small, but they are very significant in the grand scheme of things. Okay, let's just hear you describe Nigeria, what it portends for Nigeria, this emerging BRICS block that is happening. I'm glad that when we are mentioning the countries that make up the BRICS, at least we have South Africa inside, which is an African country, so Africa is well represented as it is. They are applying, but these people that really make the BRICS, Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa, so I'm really glad about that. These are key players, these are key global players that other people want to join. Saudi Arabia is joining, major. Okay, let's just to wrap it up, take a final word, describe our Nigeria for us. Now that we are going to take advantage of these and just reassure the people, because everything that is coming up new, people like to sit back and they're not too sure of it, and there's always that fear that maybe we are going from, like you said, from frying pan to fire. So just give us a final word as to how we should be glad or not be glad about this. Well, what I will say is that always a monopoly is never good. One, two, alliances, the way for progress is for people to come together and work together. Yes, we all have our hesitations about the BRICS alliance, but there are parties in there, like South Africa, South Africa is represented, Saudi is joining, these are not jokers. Even if you might feel somehow about Nigeria, these other people that are coming to join are not jokers. So I hope it will not be that bad. So of course we cannot sit here and say for certain, we cannot sit here and say for certain what it's going to be, but I imagine that this alliance, I know that the only way forward is through alliances for humanity. We all put our differences aside and work together for the greater good. Okay, well, we'd like to thank you so much for coming on the show today to really put our minds to rest because it's like, okay, Nigeria is taking another step, will it be for our benefit or for something really a bit even worse than what we have been experiencing. But I'm glad that you're taking it in a positive way and you're telling us that it is a really good thing for Nigeria. We do hope that this alliance brings a better future for Nigeria because our country is in dire need of a way, a path that we can take and become better than we are right now. Thank you so much for coming on the program today. Thank you very much, my brother. I appreciate you. Okay, this is where we wrap it up on the show today, but we'll leave you as usual today is Friday with what has happened within the course of the week. My name is Nyam Ghul at Gadji. Bye for now.