 Hello my friends and welcome to Running with Ryan. Today I'm running with a super awesome badass woman. She's one of the top sky runners in the world. Sky runners are the people that run really steep mountains. It's crazy. It's dangerous. She's one of the best. She's also a big science nerd. She loves neuroscience, catching critters and snakes and butterflies and things. A few years ago she had a horrible fall, fell 150 feet, smashed up her whole body and we're gonna talk a lot about her comeback. It is so inspirational. Ladies and gentlemen, Hillary Allen. Here she is, ladies and gentlemen. What's up? How are you doing today? It's a beautiful day to run. Should we run? Yeah let's go. Let's run. But first I want to show you these. Look at these socks. Oh my gosh. That makes Captain America very happy. Smash. Look at this. It's green. I know. It was snowing two days ago. I know. Yeah it was. Yeah. And it's May 3rd. Yeah. Can you believe it? No. Well yeah. I mean that was born here. So I was born in Colorado. Colorado girl, you were from Fort Collins? Yeah. Nice. What was growing up in Fort Collins like? Well I played tennis in the spring. So we always, we always had to shovel courts. Like for spring break. Shoveling snow. Yeah. Shoveling snow playing tennis. Yeah it was amazing. Growing up at the Rocky Mountains. Yeah I love it here. Nice. So do you like this pace? Chris Mocko really wanted to go fast. But we don't need to go fast. I like this pace. I don't want to go fast. Conversation pace. Yeah I like this. It's an easy run. It's like 3 p.m. Yeah. We've both been active all day. Exactly. We just had a big lunch and I know your hilly goat. You like the steep mountains but this is gonna be very flat. You cool with that? It's totally fine. Yeah. I actually got in my seat running this morning. Very good. Where'd you go running? Green Mountain. Oh good. I met you at a North Face event called Scar Stories. Oh my god yeah. And you recounted the story. Yeah. The horrific story. Yeah. Can you walk us through that again? Okay well so there's bears in Colorado. Basically I was attacked by a bear. It looks like she was attacked by a bear. But that is not true. Okay. Tell us the real story. Not true. I did say that though. The scars. I know you did. That was good. Well I run these kind of races called sky races which are like they're pretty technical races. So I got into ultra running and right away I got into some like pretty gnarly stuff basically in 50 kilometers. So that's like 30 miles. I would climb about 12,000 feet. Okay. And then I'd have to you know descend that like in the course of my 30 miles. So usually it involves scrambling which is like using your hands to run on this type of terrain. Like minor rock climbing. Yeah basically. Yeah. But it's super fun. And I just got really good at it and I loved it. So that's my nickname Hilly goat. Hilly goat. But what happened was I was on this sky running circuit and I would travel all over the world to do it. And I was in Norway and like super far north. Like these fjords and these like granite ridge lines. You just kind of third class, fourth class scrambling. And I was on this run and it was a race. I was actually winning the World Series of sky running. This was like ranked number one in the world. I was like doing really well in the race. Did one step and rocks fell. Like they gave way underneath my feet and it ended up falling off this ridge line and I fell 150 feet and I broke 14 bones. Nearly died. Like seriously it wasn't just like oh you broke some bones. Like you literally you almost died. No literally. Like I had to have a helicopter rescue. I remember like the whole thing. I remember thinking in my head. Like I was keeping it together. But I remember thinking. You were keeping it together as it just fell 150 feet. No literally. I remember my I was so weird. Like my brain was like okay Hillary you might be dying right now. But like stay calm. Like the doctors are here. There's a helicopter. I remember this like narrative. I was just super calm. Wow and a lot of pain. Yeah it was it was crazy and like I said I had to have a helicopter rescue. I'd never broken a bone before. Welcome to the broken bone club times 14. I know I broke like ribs. The worst part I broke my back. So like L4 and L5. Okay yeah you don't want to do that. No because I could have easily been paralyzed. I broke both wrists. Had to have like hardware in each of them. I broke my feet and I had to have a surgery because I raptured this major ligament in my foot. And the doctors said I would basically never run again. The old you're never gonna run again story. I wanted to punch this lady in the face because like she was like you don't know me. You don't know. Yeah you don't know how tough I am. Exactly but she had done a lot of these different operations on like professional football players. Okay. Apparently it was like a common injury for a football player. I don't know. And um yeah she was like you know they're lucky if they can like they jog but they'd be lucky if they could run again. Wow and hearing that news must have been devastating whether or not you believed it. I was definitely devastated because I was like at that point you know running professionally football in North Face and it wasn't about like losing my job but it was about just losing what I love to do. Yeah. And that fear associated with it. And never be able to do what you love. Yeah never feeling like a complete whole person again because I couldn't run or move my body in the way I wanted to. Yeah I mean it was a really long recovery. I was I basically had no choice. I had like two back-to-back surgeries. This is after like I had spent two weeks in Norway and in hospitals in Norway. In the hospital there. Wow. Had initial surgeries and they came back into the States and these doctors are like things are healing right? Put on your arms again. So basically I had to re-break my arms. Put in different hardware and then operate on my foot. I couldn't walk for three months and then yeah I basically was trying to find like novel ways for me to move around. I had a scooter. I'd actually come here to this trail. To this trail? Nice. And scoot around the lake. Just for peace of mind I imagine. Just to get outside. Breathe some fresh fresh air. Yeah. Wow. But literally in an instinct I'd gone from like the most fit I'd ever been running these like mountainous courses. Like setting course records to the next day not being able to move. Or like get out of my bed. Yeah. Yeah it was probably one of the hardest things I've ever had to do. Well I'm sure I mean most humans have never gone through something like that. But this leads to the next topic. Your comeback has been very inspirational. And not only inspirational but you've documented it a lot on your blog. You've been very vulnerable. You talk about how hard it is. How depressed you've been. Oh yeah. Speak about that and what the importance of just you know your mentality staying positive. So I mean I think right now I mean we're in a world where everything is like accessible at our fingertips. And it's like a beautiful thing because I can't. Hi. You just interrupted my podcast. We're all community. Okay continue on. No I mean like in all corners of the world. Yeah. And they're accessible with my fingertips. So that's awesome. But then it also leads to this like immense loneliness. And I felt lonely. I felt depressed because I couldn't connect with the people that I loved in the same way that I was used to. That was through running. Yeah. And so like it changed my entire life. And I mean I was definitely depressed. I like what if you if you feel separated from who you are. It's this really vulnerable place. And I thought I had this conclusion that I thought it was the biggest loss in an opportunity if I couldn't learn something. Yeah. Through going through all of this. And so I made a decision. And that was to be completely open and honest with my recovery. My mental standpoint. Everyone not just like my family and friends. But everyone because I felt like I had built this community of runners through like over the whole world and throughout my career. And I felt like I kind of owed it to myself. And owed it to them. To just be honest. Because a lot of people hide from injuries. They totally do. I want to interrupt this really quickly. She just ran up this really steep hill. And she's like barely breathing. That's how incredible of an athlete she is. Okay continue. Okay well. Hilly goats. Hilly goats. That's what I love. Hilly goats in the house. But at least I think and people were afraid to be vulnerable. And especially an injury. Because we're so strong and like independent. You're a superhero. And capable. Yeah. And like you feel so good when you're able to do what you love. Yeah. And move your body. And in injuries it feels like you can't do anything. Yeah. And like a lot of athletes are afraid that either like my level they'll lose their sponsorship. Or they'll lose their friends. Yeah. Like their running community. Yep. And yeah. Maybe you will like temporarily lose that. But it's something we all go through. Just being active. Yep. And I feel like it's something like that's important to highlight. And I learned a lot about myself. Like when I say going through that recovery was the hardest thing I've ever done. It's because I learned so much about myself. I had to be like stripped down of everything. It's like if you're like naked and like giving a speech to people. Yeah. Absolutely. That's how I felt like every day. Yeah. And so I had to like find a way to keep showing up. And a way that I learned how to do that was through riding and through just being honest. Yeah. And yeah. And she said riding with a T. But she's also been riding bikes a lot. Good. Nice segue. Yeah. You like that? That's segue to bikes because my audience loves bikes too. I love bikes actually. Like I have a complete noob and actually through the recovery like falling off a cliff which I mean most people use it as a joke but I actually did. You really did fall off a cliff. You fell off a really steep one. Really really steep one. And I got my first gravel bike. Nice. And I started riding. Yes. Oh my gosh. I love it so much. Oh it's such a great feeling. So awesome. Especially here because you can just take these gravel roads that well I trust pass for the first time. Well good for you. Yesterday. They really have signs like bikes, no bikes and then like a sticker of a pistol. Really? Yeah. And you're like I survived falling off a cliff. I can survive some gunshots. I think you're like just any you greet them with a smile and say I'm sorry this is the first time I've been back here. Which it was. And it made it safely. Rules are meant to be broken especially those ones. They are. Yeah. But yeah so same bikes last season last year when learning a ton. I'm still a noob and I will rip like the most non-technical single track out there. But it's so fun. You can go so far. Yep. And fallow race. Good for you. Awesome. Which one? The big one? Really big. Dirty Kanza? Dirty Kanza. Nice. 200. Oh my god. I've heard that my ass is gonna fall off from saddle sores. Yeah. Or I don't know. You'll be fine. Just ride your bike a lot and your butt will get used to it. I haven't ridden my bike a lot which is so fun. I've been doing these like gnarly loops up in the mountains and like I can climb like 9,200 feet on my bike and then the next day I went out and did like you know 70 miles and I was fine. Awesome. You can't do that when you're running. No you sure can. Has biking translated to making you a better runner in any way? You know biomechanically? You know I think if you practice cycling like going uphill absolutely. Because like I said I went up green mountain this morning and you know I'll run and power hike and it basically yeah like I felt like I hadn't even spent any time away. I like could just go up the hill. So yeah plus it like mix it up and do different sports. Totally. Because I actually I've only been running for five years. Yeah that's true that's a good point. She just was 2014 you started running? Yeah and I was on the North Face team in 2015. I literally just like picked up and loved it. But I've always been an athlete. Yeah. And I was a tennis player in college. Yeah and that translates to long distance running totally. It translates to like trails. Yeah. At least the technical trails. Yeah. Like the footwork. Uh huh. But yeah I mean. Hello. Hi there. Those are some fans of Hilary. No not me. But I think of Ryan. Yeah so we biking and doing I don't know just more sports is it's just fueling me. I always feel like I'm an athlete. I've never really defined myself as a runner. Yeah. And yeah I need to do different sports and learn. Like cycling takes a lot of coordination. Yeah it does. So and if you thought running was dangerous you can definitely mess yourself up on a bike too. So be careful. I know. I've got to. I've got to really be careful. What is what are some things about biking that brings you enjoyment in a way that running doesn't? What's the difference? So far there. Yeah. In one day. Yeah that's true. Um I don't know it's like it's a different it's definitely a different feeling because I don't feel like I'm like today I was out and I was like touching their ground and we got some technical running here. Pause and continue. I was like touching the like the rocks like the trees. Yeah. Precisely I mean you definitely can get back there but I mean just the grind of the uphill like the steep stuff you can go up on a bike. Yeah. I mean I'm going up super flag and I've run that road. It's kind of about the same amount of time. Yeah totally. It's just humbling. Biking uphill is about the same speed as running uphill. It is. Yeah. Look at those mountains by the way. Oh my god. I love living here. I grew up in the dirt like I was in my mom's like baby Bjorn like legs and arms hanging out before I could walk. Yeah. I grew up in these mountains. I also heard you grew up just loving the outdoors but also critters and catching stuff and that led to your degree in what biology, neuroscience. Yeah. Yeah so actually I noticed a lady bug back there. Oh you did? But I didn't stop. We can go catch some bugs if you want. I love catching bugs. I know this is the spring time. There are definitely snakes out here. There are actually a friend of mine saw a rattlesnake the other day. Yeah. But his butterfly seems in now. Oh. I know I've noticed all the bugs. Close to my curiosity and willingness to try. I'm curious about the natural world. That's what led me into science. So I have a degree in organic chemistry which led me to. That's one of those easy degrees to get right. I'm a complete nerd. So I like I also teach part-time at a small college from range. Oh very cool. I teach chemistry anatomy and physiology biology. I'm curious about the natural world. Yeah. And so it led me to ask questions and science is the best place to get those questions answered. I started getting bored in the lab and I started running more in graduate school and my curiosity kind of led me to trails. Yeah. And then trail running and then ultra running and then sky running because I was curious if I could do it. Basically the motto in sky running is from the sea to the sky. Gotcha. Via the most direct route. And the hardest. Yeah. So it's like a lot of scrambling. It's different than trail running because trail running can be a flat path. Maybe what we're doing right now. Yeah. It could be. Exactly. It's not my favorite type. Yeah. No. It's kind of windy but you know it's good. When I think of trail running I think of something uphill. Yeah. It's like if you show them that. Yeah. That's trail running out there for sure. I went up that mountain this morning. That's pretty impressive. That's the tallest mountain right here right next to Boulder. I know. That's what gets me the most excited about trail running. But it was like my curiosity that brought me to it. Yeah. I like to think that if I just question and ask the question of why. Yeah. Like then you can start exploring and like just find out what you're capable of. I love it. Hello again. Hi. Hi. You're welcome to watch it. Ah. Dozer TV. Okay. Oh it almost crashed. Right into a ditch. But I mean so I always pay attention to like the bugs and nature. It's one of the things I love most about trail running is you just feel at one with the outdoors. I'm not afraid to get dirty. Yeah. Like I love running in the mud. Okay. Let's say you got like 200 meters left and you're going to win a race and you see the most beautiful lizards you've ever seen in your life. Oh my God. Do you stop and check out the lizard. No. Okay. Because the finish line is 200 meters away. Okay. Stop and then go back. Okay. Fair enough. So you finish the race and then go back. Then I go back. But okay so this is a good question. Because two times I will not stop for a bug or lizard or frog or salamander that I see on the trail. That's what I'm racing. Okay. And doing a workout. That's a good rule. But every other time. Hell yeah. Okay. Anyone who runs with me they're bound to learn something new about a flower or like a bug or a beetle. Well I hope we find something then. I know. I haven't been looking too closely. That's how ladybugs are. That's how ladybugs are definitely cool. Those are like the animal kingdom's like friendliest bug. Everybody loves a ladybug. They are cool. But they know that actually if you try to eat a ladybug they put out little hydrochloric acid. It's like the orange stuff. Okay. So that's why they're so brightly colored. So birds don't eat them. Because they actually taste really bad. Okay. Well I'll remember that next time I get hungry in the wild. Yeah. You can maybe eat it but poke it first so that the acid just seeps out. This has been fun. You're great. And your energy is like every time I have a risk. You it is like this. You're just jolly and fun and positive. Well thank you. Do you think a lot of it comes from those really dark days? I mean you've seen. Yeah. You've been down there. So I mean like even after like I think that's what allowed me to continue running again. So like those doctors they told me I'd never run. And I just didn't believe it because I wanted to know if I could do it. Like that curiosity piece. Yeah. And so I tried really hard. Of course I had some of the hardest days in my life. But I never gave up hope. Because I just wasn't willing to accept that I was done. No way. Jose you're young. You're strong. Yeah. And I think it's like that belief. Like that mental piece. Again the neuroscience. Yep. You never know what's possible. And so yeah I experienced some really bad days. But how I got through it was I just told myself was like okay if you can get through this moment and this day even if it's shitty it's still like if I'm building the house. Yeah. Building the foundation. It's still like a brick that I'm laying down. It contributes to something bigger. It might not look perfect but it's there. Yeah. And so I think that day in and day out just got me through some really dark times. And I did run. In fact last year actually ran a 50 mile race and a 50k as well as did some like other crazy I did like UTMB. I turned it soft UTMB. That stands for Ultra Trail Mont Blanc in France. Sorry. Yeah. It's okay. It's a hundred mile. This ride I did was 120 miles. But I turned it soft because I split it up into three days. Okay. So I was able to do that like 35 miles a day. Yeah. Wow. After the doctors said I never run again. I ran a 50 mile race and I won that one. I went back to a sky running race and I actually won that one. Cool. But then two months ago I was like gearing up for a season this year. And on the road near my house I broke my ankle. Oh that's right. I remember seeing it on your Instagram. Yeah. I know. You must have been crushed. You're like not again. I was so crushed. Yeah. But again it was like that positivity. I was like okay I'm gonna feel it. I'm gonna be super sad for a week. And then I'm gonna work really hard. And I'm gonna eat a lot of junk food right? That's really what I'm sad. I just go for Ben and Jerry's. I'm more of a watermelon type of girl. Okay. Well that's good. Carrots are my favorite food. Yeah. You are a nerd. I'm such a nerd. I know. Bait a carrot team. Yeah. You wrote a blog post. Yeah. All about this. Yeah. Essentially right? Yeah. I kind of I documented like the return to my running from the first injury and in this one definitely. Yeah. And you talked about how in learning to trust your body again. That's what has been the hardest. Yeah. Is learning like going on technical terrain again and being super aware that there's a cliff right there or a drop off. But still like moving through the train in a safe way. Like that was the hardest part about learning to run was that oh like am I injured again? Like I have hardware in my ankle now. Yeah. I'm like oh my god like twisting my ankle or you know tripping a little bit on the trail. It can still be quite jarring. And at first when I started running it was really slow. And I was really hesitant to go on any sort of technical terrain. I kept practicing and I run pretty closely with my coach and he would come and like encourage me to go on these routes like he would literally show up my house. And I was like what are we doing today? Thinking that we do like a soft terrain. And he'd take me on this like gnarly run. Wow. Just to teach me that I could do it. Yeah. So it's like just like I've learned to I'm learning to gravel to do like to cycle and yeah my gravel bike. It's like it's really exhausting to be out of your comfort zone every single day. Yep. It's really hard. Yep. Some days I don't want to do it. Yeah. But that's where you really learn a lot. Yeah. And that's kind of what I told myself. And so like with compassion that I genuinely wanted to work hard and I wanted to see what it was like like if I could do it and it's beautiful because if I just gave up I would have never learned that I possessed this crazy amount of strength. Yeah. And I think they are like more people more people like they just don't know that they have it. Yeah. And a lot of times it takes a traumatic event to realize it. Absolutely. Yeah. So I'm thankful for it. I wouldn't want to do it again. But let's go jump off this this little fence right here. Just for old time sake. No. No. I don't want to. But no it's actually it taught me a whole bunch about myself and the world and friendships and relationships and compassion for yourself. That's for other people going through these things everything. Because you never know. Like I remember the first day I got off of my scooter and I was able to walk and normally when I had my crutches or my scooter people would open doors. Yeah. They'd kind of like give me some space. When I was walking they treated me like I was one of them. Yeah. She doesn't need help. And exactly. And I was like oh my god. They have no idea. Yeah. What I've just been through. Yep. But then what really got me was like holy shit. I have no idea what anyone else is going through. Yeah. And so having compassion and empathy. That's the main thing that really changed me. And do you see yourself looking at people in a different light maybe disabled people and wanting to help them more. Well that but also just normal people who are having a bad day. Yeah. You know. And it's been actually pretty awesome since I've been so open about my injuries. Many people have contacted me. Like when they've been going through. In fact there's this guy right now who broke his C like C4. And that's literally there's a rhyme. Yeah. In neuroscience. This has break C4, breathes no more. So he broke it. But he's not paralyzed. He's not dead. But he's like trying to rebuild himself again. That did me on Instagram and was like you really helped motivate me in my recovery and to not give up. And that is just like that's amazing. Yeah. To help someone they don't even know. And tell them that they need to be patient and that it's hard and that you need to not beat yourself up. It's it's something I didn't have someone helping me through that. I kind of had to learn that. Yep. And to be able to help other people it's just been a real gift. I mean you're still essentially recovering. You know what are your some of your goals coming up here? Put some of my early races on hold because breaking my ankle. Yeah. And so now initially now like that's also why I decided to just bite the bullet and go for this gravel race. Yeah. Because I wanted I wanted a cool goal. I wanted something that just made me scared and excited. I'm doing a stage gravel race in Oregon. Nice. Like two weeks after dirty cancer. Okay. So I'm gonna try that out. Good for you. It really scares the crap out of me. Does it scare your parents? I don't know. I think we'll just leave it that way. Okay. Yeah. My mom freaks out when I tell her about my bike adventures. Oh yeah. My mom they kind of learned that about me now. They're like okay but Hillary has Instagram so they're like check it on me. Oh where is she today? That's good but they actually they learn what sky running is and they're definitely scared. But actually my mom like when I started running again. Yeah. She said to me she's like Hillary I love you and I know this is what makes you feel alive. So like I support you even though as a mom like she's scared. She doesn't need to like die. Yeah. I think it's our job as children to scare our parents. I think so. You know. Yeah. I do a real good job today. I do too. My mom has pure white hair. All gray. Oh man. Don't mind us too. All right. But I'm the youngest and I basically don't behave like the youngest because I was one that was beating up my older sister. I was like sweet little Hillary was beating up her sister. Oh yeah. I'm feeding up a boy too. Okay. In kindergarten. Okay. That makes it any better. But I did. Would you do to him. He was a bully and he would always pick on me and now looking back I think because he liked me. Yes. That's what we do. Well like I beat up last night. Oh geez. Just kidding. But I didn't know. So I tackled him and I sat on him. Good. I was like double 15 in his face and gave him a bloody nose. Really. That's that's some good. That's some good quality beating up. That was good. That's beat down. It was. But yeah. So I was basically a really well behaved child. Very curious. I was getting into trouble. My mom would tell me like don't do that or I'd be helping her cook and she's like oh don't touch that. It's hot. And I looked at her and I put my hand on the stove. Exactly. I need to learn my own way. You're one of those kids. I am one of those kids. And I'm one of those adults too. Obviously. Obviously. But yeah. So besides the bike racing I'm hoping to do some some like 50k races. Maybe this one in Italy that's like in Cortina Italy. It's one of my favorite places on earth. Well actually I'm wearing the t-shirt of the Burning Man 50k. You might want to give that one a shot. It's a little naked but it's cool. Let's say a little naked and druggy maybe. People might do drugs on. I've never done the drugs while running but. Because running is the high. That's right. But yeah I don't know. I'm just I want to do things that excite me and I'm definitely gonna get back out there and do some of these competitive races because I have a lot of goals with that. What really excites me are these FKTs so fast as known time. Yeah. You can do these routes and just kind of go off trail and explore. It's like my favorite way. My favorite way to run. It's like one of the things I love the most is just being outside in nature and kind of relying on it to get you where you need to go. And actually that's what I told myself early on in my recovery. Was that even if I don't race again? I don't care but I'm gonna run. Yeah. And I'm gonna get back to trail running just because it's part of me. It feeds your soul. Yeah. Exactly. This has been very motivational for me. This has been great seriously. That's awesome. I love it. I'm so happy to hear that because like you know I'm just living my life. I'm trying my best every day. Every day isn't perfect. So I don't necessarily know if what I'm doing is inspirational. I just like I'm really stubborn and I don't know how to give up. Yeah that's great. You were born with it. And for all of you out there I'm gonna link to some great articles about her, her recovery, her comeback, some North Face videos that are highly inspirational. Anything else we should tell them about? I don't know. Your Instagram, your Instagram. Yeah, my Instagram. Helico Climes. Yeah. Yeah. Give me all the advice on gravel biking? Yes. Give us some advice. And thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for joining us on another running with Ryan. And we will see you down the road. And remember get off your couch and get out there. Yeah. Bye. Oh my gosh. That's like the bear that came in this got you. Yep, they're a duck. Watch out.