 March 18th, develop and review board for the City of Montpelier to order and we'll have Meredith go over the procedures to remote. Okay, so Julie, it looks like maybe it's working. Yay! Success. I'm on my phone, let's see if there's some reason that's never happened before on my computer. Apologies everybody. That's okay. Alright, so I'm going to do, because you just missed Sharon's little intro, I'm going to do a little blurb on the remote meeting procedures. Okay, so what you're going to see on your screen is more for anybody who's watching the meeting via Orca Media, but there'll be a few tips and pointers in my little spiel that apply to everybody who's on remotely. So for anyone viewing tonight's development and review board meeting via Orca Media, you can participate in tonight's discussion via the Zoom platform through either video or telephone access options. If you want the full video experience, you can type this link into your web browser. Except that they can't see that on the Zoom X and the Orca. Can we minimize the, sorry everybody, having to manage things from multiple screens. So if you're on via Orca Media or watching via Orca Media, you can attend the meeting with the full video options by typing this link into your web browser and I'll get a notification that you want to get into the meeting. Alternatively, you can call into the meeting on any phone and then put in this meeting ID when prompted. And again, I'll get a little message that you want to come into the meeting. If anyone is trying to get into the meeting and having problems, please email me at this email down here mcrandle at montpillier-vt.org. I will be monitoring my email throughout the meeting. For everyone attending Zoom, note that turning your video on is optional. In addition, please keep your microphone on mute when you're not speaking. This will reduce background noise. And finally note that the Zoom chat function should only be used for troubleshooting or logistics questions. Any questions or comments about items on the agenda should be made by raising your hand and then waiting to be called on. We do have one general member of the public on tonight, although my understanding is that he's on just to observe as a law student. But Andrew, if you do have questions, feel free to raise your hand either physically when your video is on or use the raise hand button on your toolbar. And when the chair calls on you, you can ask a question if you have any. In the event the public is unable to access this meeting and I would find that out via my email. It will need to be continued to a time and place certain. I'll now hand the meeting back over to the chair. Great. If we can go through and introduce ourselves from the right here. Rob Goodwin, vice chair, DRB. Meredith Crandall, staff. Sharon Allen, chair. Brian Jones, member. Captain Burgess, member. And then if we could, who do we have online up here? We have Alex Hallos, DRB member. Yeah. So Karen and DRB member. Okay. And I guess. Okay. Great. So the first order of business is the application on here. Approval of the agenda. Oh, no. Thank you, Rob. Is there a second to that? All those in favor of approving the agenda. Hi. Hi. Hi. So what this is, my understanding is an expansion of the 203 country club road by Good Samaritan Haven. This group actually approved last fall, I believe. And expansion of the area used in an extension to the end, from the end date of June 1, 2024 to June 1, 2025. Is that correct? Yeah. I'm understanding the time period to June 1, 2025, as well as the space that's used. Okay. It doesn't expand the amount of people staying there or anything like that. Okay. Do people have questions? I had a couple of questions about it. Or we could let the applicant explain what's going on. That would be great too. Yeah. Julie. You might want to speak in the microphone. Hi, Julie. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Sure. So again, this is a continuation or re-upping of some slight changes that we had during the season. Because of a COVID outbreak, we had inquired of the city to expand on an emergency basis into the adjacent office space in order to quarantine. So that was part of the process. And in addition, along getting the time frame by which we are applying for additional use, if we were to utilize the same space. So that was part of the process. And in addition, we were also applying for additional use. If we were to utilize the same space for, for sheltering in the coming season. So it's a general thing. It's the same use is sort of existing, but it's just time-free wise. Asking for an extension. Okay. That sounds good. I guess. So emeritus said that there's no additional people. Is that correct? Correct. Yes. And so the last, the last application came in and we, and it was approved until June 20, June 2024, which would be this June. Are you planning on using it throughout the summer as well? It's not likely, but it's possible in that we're receiving, you know, we're in sort of crisis mode in the county and state. We're receiving quite a lot of pressure in terms of responding to that need. So we're not quite sure there could be additional use or extended use. It's not necessarily our intention, but never say never in terms of how we're trying to respond and meet the need of the housing crisis at the moment, especially with the hotels in flux at the moment. So, but our, our main focus would be if we were to use the space again as a winter overnight shelter that that would be our goals. It was the kind of the typical season from November through April season of the coming year. Okay. I mean, there's nothing wrong with using it in the summer. I was just wondering if the plans had changed a little bit. Not necessarily, although, you know, if we do have the ability to use it and there was approval, it could be something that we look into, but it's not something that's currently on our. It's not on the application. It's on the application. It's not on the radar, but if we were to have ability to use it through that timeframe, you know, maybe there's potential to use it based on, like I said, the requests we're receiving from, from to expand shelter capacity across the year. Okay. And there are other people with questions. I have a question. Yeah. When we granted the conditional use or whatever we granted in September, it was only for the winter season. So are we now granting it from June or potentially approving it from June 24 to June 25 inclusive? Robert call that discussion. It just so happened that the dates were in the application, but it wasn't necessarily specific in, you know, the DRB decision in the order that, you know, we, you know, we're spelling out the timeframe at which it could, it cannot be used. That was more of a thing that was between the good Sam in the city. You know, they just have, you know, their agreement was included in the application, but like, you know, I think that there was consensus in the DRB that like as far as the rules were concerned here, a timeframe wasn't necessary for approval of the conditional use. Maybe I'm missing words for how I, you know, viewed it in maybe advocated during that meeting. But I guess I still view this application similar. Meredith. Meredith. So when there are representations in the application materials, those are considered sort of binding. So if right now the cover letter, the first page of the cover letter that came with this says that, um, you know, we were requesting an extension of our end date to June 1st, 2025. We still anticipate concluding our shelter program this year by May 1st, 2024. And it is possible we may seek to lease the space again later this year to offer the Elk shelter during the winter of 2024 to 25 and no, and no later than June 1st, 2025. So if you just went by that first sentence, you know, requesting an extension of our end date to June 1st, 2025 and the rest is sort of a description of the known facts. Right. You could say that the DRB's approval is sort of blanket and the specifics, when it comes down to what their possible leases are, that's to be dealt with separately. There is a way to interpret this that way. Yes. I was questioned whether that was not a city decision. Right. And it's the, right. The actual lease terms, that's all going to be based on the city, as well as getting the state buyer safety code approvals for any extensions. But, you know, the DRB granting an extension to their zoning approval just provides greater flexibility over the next year to, you know, year plus, year to 16 months, without making good Sam and the city have to go through additional hoops if it's the same scope of use just for a longer period of time. Okay. I thought that was good clarification. Does that answer your question, Alex? Yeah. Although I think it would be good if the decision was clear about that, about the duration rather than, you know, if it were explicit. But I mean, I don't know what could come up to muddy the waters. So I don't have any experience of that. Yeah. I would think the decision from a zoning perspective could be pretty clear. Yeah. If we as a board read it this way, which that's how I read it. It's an extension through June 1st. And then this is clarification of what may or may not happen during that time. And there's a lot of other factors beyond zoning. But from the zoning perspective, this is like what the DRB is able to do. That makes sense to me. Other questions? The only other area of clarification was the, just the bounds of the conditional use within the building. I don't know if we could put the sketch up just. Yep. I will put the application up. Give me just a second to find. Give me a minute. I have too many things open. I'm going to have to scroll to it. Give me a second. Can I realize if you could see sick? Yeah. Mm-hmm. And let's do that. So this blue space and this building entry circled in orange was the original space. Okay. And then this green here is the additional 3055 square feet that has the same main building entry. And Julie, correct me if I'm getting this wrong, but this is my understanding. So they have a shared entry. And here's the extra space that's being used, the stuff in green here. And this is the emergency only exit that I mentioned in the staff report that the fire and safety code said that with this much space, they had to have that, but that is not a main entry point. That's just emergency exit only. Where's the other bathroom? Well, there's bathrooms here in the central area. And then there's a little, I think that's a little extra bathroom. Is that right, Julie? That's the accessible bathroom, I believe. Yeah. Back here in the back. Got it. I thought I saw that the childcare place is no longer there. Is that correct? Are you asking me a Julie? I believe that was correct. Yes. I just wasn't sure if you were asking me a Julie. What other uses are in the building? Is the rest of it vacant or what's, I'm just curious? This area I know is city storage because that's where all of the DPW planning and city clerk files that got wet and came back are now stacked in various places. I don't know if there, I don't know if any of the rest of the space is leased out right now. I think the rest of it is vacant right now. Julie, I don't know if you know of anything else, but from what we got back from Chris on it, I think the rest of it is just the city trying to either clean things up and remodel or is using for a lot of storage since we can't use the basement of City Hall. Yeah, there might have been, and I don't know if there currently is somebody that had a wood shop in one far corner of the building. Back in here? Yeah. Yeah. That shop area. Right, right. So I don't know if that's active or not, but yeah. Yeah. The only other, I had a question I had in the application and I guess I'll address it first to Meredith and then I'll see where we go from there is that they need to have another public safety inspection. Is that right? I think they, and Julie may have to deal with this. I think they got the safety inspections for the use through this winter season. I think that's all cleared up. It's the, if they were to extend the time period beyond this winter season, they would need additional inspections. Okay. But the, I think everything got passed because you guys added another smoke detector and some other items got dealt with. My strobes and things, yes. Yeah. So we've just completed all of that last week, so that all of the current requirements should be up to date and finished. Yeah. Okay. Other questions? We can kind of go to the staff report. Now just a couple of things. So much stuff. Where my staff report is? I do not have one. A staff report in here. Well, I don't know how that happened. There is a staff report. Did anybody else's physical packets not include a staff report? Yeah, I would not get a staff report. Okay. This, Audra and I are both falling apart. I'm really sorry. I only brought the two extras. I mean, I read all of it online. Yeah. I mean, I know what's in here, but I just. Wow. Okay. I don't know why the. I've got one to share with you. Okay. Goodness. All right. This is what happens when I'm out for several days and Audra is getting geared up for retirement. So as I understand this, it's basically just an extension of what we approved last fall. Yeah. Correct. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. That means basically the exact same stuff in red is in red again. Right. Yeah. Um, so basically it sounds like you guys have done the emergency, um, the property owner and state buyer and safety code approvals that you need to get up to date. Is that correct? Okay. I think that's important. Um, you know, not a lot, a lot of this is just storm owners management and erosion control and things that are irrelevant. Um, I guess there's a little, uh, question in someone's mind about whether, uh, we should consider landscaping, landscaping, landscaping or other, uh, screening as a part of a conditional use approval under this chapter 330. It's not a question per se. It's just one of those things that you always have an option. Right. Right. I'm putting it out. There's an option. Um, thoughts. Okay. Agreed. So I feel like, uh, these, yeah, these are basically the same ones that we looked through. I think we talked last, the last time we looked at this about whether this is going to, uh, cause a disproportionate and reasonable burden on the city's ability, uh, with community facilities and utilities. Um, I guess the one question I have is, was there, um, was there any kind of, uh, Julie, was there any kind of like increased, uh, emergency services? No. In fact, this season, uh, you know, we've had very, very few calls, uh, these calls or anything like that. I don't believe we've had any EMS calls. Maybe we've had one, two, probably two, maybe three at the max. Okay. All season. So it's been quite, uh, quite stable, quite, quite successful. Yeah. Okay. And I believe in that last, um, application, there was an intention to provide transportation like downtown or to other areas with facilities during daytime hours. Is that how it, um, ended up going over this winter? Yes. In fact, uh, so we have a van, a 15 passenger van that we use, uh, to pick up individuals from around the city every day at certain times. And then drive them to the shelter. And then again, in the morning, we drive them into town again because of the, you know, location. And it's, it's, it's been, you know, it's an extra layer for us in terms of managing the process, but it has worked pretty smoothly. Yeah. That's the one thing about that site. It's really not close to anything else. So. Right. Right. Um, I had a question for Meredith. This is a little, um, unusual, but I'll, I'll just ask it because I'm not sure what the interpretation would be thinking that we're now looking at up to June, 2025. If there were to be movement on this larger site and construction of any kind starting before that period, is there, um, you know, any, uh, awareness or relevance here? I know that's, that's pretty much winter. So it's unlikely, but I just wanted to raise it given it's a large site that could especially have like infrastructure, uh, construction period. Um, Can I, can I add, add something to clarify that? Which is, is, is your knowledge of currently what's in the zoning queue right now? Is there anything that actually could come up? Um, so I'm going to, I'm going to just sort of answer but divert. And that, and that the scope of the application is what's before the board. Yep. Um, yes, there are hopes and dreams and plans for doing stuff up a country club road, you know, what the, what the property is, when that will be in what it will be, you know, you could speculate to the cows come home. Yep. Um, and so, you know, the, the board's charge is to make a decision based on what's here, not all of the potential things that could happen moving forward, right? That's more in the property owner and the business or entity manager, owner's perspective. Um, in the planning commission. Yep, understood. So anything that move forward would be moving forward with the knowledge that if this were to have zoning approval, it has it through. Wait, it has, the zoning approval doesn't go away just because something next door changes. Understood. So. Perfect. Traffic was pretty much a non-issue with one ban. I don't think we need to worry about that. Um, character, the neighborhood. Uh, it didn't, it doesn't really change it. I mean, we're not talking about building any exterior uses and not like we're filling up the parking lot with cars. Um, I think we can agree with everyone that architectural does not apply. So I think what we came up with last time in terms of whether this would impact the use is considered with the neighborhood is that it was a temporary use and it's still a temporary use for only one year. So I don't, I don't really see that as having much impact. Um, I have a question on that. So like, if it was a, so like temporary housing versus emergency shelter, like is there a difference between the two? Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, it's, it's in the definitions and the regulations. I don't, I don't have my book in front of me. I have to pull it up on the screen. They are two different things. Um, and the, you know, we actually changed. So from the prior application for this use to this one, we actually had an interim rule amendment that created two different categories of emergency shelter versus emergency housing. So emergency shelter is this, um, you know, short term stay emergency shelter. Um, versus we created a new category of emergency housing that was the sort of state sponsored when we thought there was going to be state or government sponsored when we thought there was going to be the FEMA housing up there. Right. Um, so there were some, some changes, um, including where those uses were permitted or conditional and how that all divvied out. Super helpful. Thank you. Um, anybody have further questions about this or concerns? I'm good. I'm interested in making a motion. Absolutely. I'm ready. Um, so I'll motion to grant request for conditional use, um, and minor site plan approval, site plan approval to expand the emergency shelter at two or three country club road for a total of five thousand and five square feet. Um, and extend the maximum period for the temporary, um, use to June twenty twenty five, um, as presented in application Z twenty twenty four dash oh oh one four and supporting materials subject to the following conditions of approval, any use of the space at two or three country road for emergency shelter or for the, uh, used to occur beyond January first twenty twenty five requires a zoo. June first. January twenty twenty five. Thanks. Thank you. Requires a zoning permit. Uh, so if I said January and anywhere that strike that it is, uh, June first twenty twenty five. Uh, excuse me. Okay. There's a motion. I'll say the motion. Yes. Just a friendly amendment. Yep. In the condition instead of any use of space to that two or three country club road. It should be any use of additional space. So I can't actually make the amendment, but if I thought that's what I said, you skipped over additional space. Did I? Yep. Hard to read things on a phone. Well, uh, accepted any use of additional space at two or three country road, uh, accepted. Thank you. Okay. Uh, any further discussion? Friends on zoom. No. Okay. All those in favor, uh, let's maybe let's just do a roll call vote on this. Um, Rob. Uh, yes. Uh, yes. Yes. Brian. Catherine. Yes. Joe. Yes. Alec. Yes. All right. I think that's unanimously approved then. So you vote yes. I did vote yes. Okay. I did it right in my little arc here. I'm sorry I didn't wait to last minute or something. Just took my place on the line. Um, thank you very much, Julie. Um, it was great. And it sounds like you guys are doing good work up there. Thanks. Thank you so much. I appreciate everybody. So. Good questions. Julie, the official decision will be when the written decision comes out and will be, there'll be a new permit. Do you want us to just mail those to you guys versus having you pick them up? I mean, you're already there. So it's not like there's a pressing need to get those posted on the building. Sure. That sounds great. Okay. That's absolutely fine. Awesome. Thanks, Julie. Wonderful. Thank you so much. Okay. Thank you. All right. For us, I think we simply have the minutes to approve. Which is. Oh, you probably do have those or since you. Actually, I did also read those. Here they are. Okay. Uh, so, um, the February 5th, 2024. Um, has everybody had a chance to review them? I wasn't there, but, um, um, um, um, um, they're headed as request to install a new eight foot tall fence. What? What? And the new fencing in the first paragraph, it says the new fencing will be 10 feet high, which is four feet higher than the eight feet section three, one, oh, one allows. So there's a lot of heights floating around. Yeah. So, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, I will, I can go back and check those. I'm sorry, somehow I missed those in proofing. Um, check. So it is 10 feet. If I had to put my money down on something, it would be 10 feet. Yeah. No, it should say 10 feet. It should be 10 feet. Yeah, it should be 10 feet because the max, um, because if they needed to install an eight foot one, wouldn't have needed any kind of variation. Yeah. And that's only two feet more than the Bragg Two feet more than the regs and two less feet than it was good catch Well, no ten feet because the Sideyard isn't the max height six feet Not two feet higher than the standard Oh, okay. I don't I didn't look at the application. I mean I looked at it Yep, no, but that's the the the description the review request to install a new it should be 10 feet tall fence Yeah, yeah, so that's that's the typo Okay, four feet hard and the existing one is 12 feet The existing fence. Yeah, the existing non-conforming fence was 12 feet And they want to build a 10 foot standard for side yards is six feet Okay, yep It is a good catch. Thank you. Thank you Alex very much Well, I'll make a motion to approve the February 5th minutes as amended Every second out Sounds good. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Those opposed, please say nay Okay They are approved Sorry some of my agenda items were a little out of order This is what comes from me learning how to make the agendas on the electronic system. Okay So our next meeting is gonna be April 1st. Do you have any applicants at this time? We do Take a look at the pending applications page. We have two applications One is for changes to the smaller older car wash on River Street, okay? And then and that's a conditional use It wasn't a conditional use when it first got built or when the most recent changes happened there But it is now so it has to come to you guys Because they're adding some to the footprint and changing what what's going on there um, and then the other application is for a major site plan review of an addition to house moved offices at the Kasella Facility out on East Montpelier Road Because their offices out there got horribly flooded back in July and they're having to demolish that building Interesting. Yeah Anybody else have anything they want to chat about? Yes, just sort of an administrative item. I am Probably gonna be making some changes to what your staff reports look like starting with this next meeting Because I need to increase my efficiencies So it's gonna look similar But it's also gonna look a lot more like just a draft Decision even more than it does already Because I've got to be able to pair my time as much as possible because Audra leaves in a very short amount of time like Yeah, very very short amount of time Have you hired? We're not allowed to bring anybody on until the new fiscal year Don't you lie? Yes whoa Yes, so It's going to be very busy Where everybody in our office is learning different things that Audra does so that we can all take them on But I am the only person in the office authorized to issue any zoning permits of any sort Um, so it's going to be very very busy for a little while I didn't say it was abbreviated necessarily But we'll see because it also depends the new person is gonna have a ramp up time and we'll have different skill sets probably than Audra So it will be an adjustment But I'm too thorough of a person and have too much legal training to have the decisions Be too skimpy so it'll still there'll still be plenty of information But there you may have a little more of needing to actually go and read the regulations yourselves here and there Yeah, let us know how we can support you That's a lot of pressure to not be able to hire until the new fiscal year and you already do so much. Well, thank you So the on the first it's the conditional use in major site plan or minor major site plan So there's there's a conditional use application and there's a major site plan application the major site plan application when you go and look at it on the pending applications page has Like all of the flood stuff in it some of that will be pulled back for your packets, but To simplify things when we get an application right now We're scanning the entire thing without breaking it up between building and zoning and flood Because we've got to just get it scanned and processed and put into our system so some of the finer flood details are in what's out there right now, but that won't necessarily be in your packet for the meeting Another point might be to everybody for everybody to look at their regulations before the next meeting and really look at the major site plan review criteria so that We can start being a little more independent of meritists Yeah, and I was gonna add to that that both those applications are posted on the city's website right now So and I think it's it can be aggressive to try and tackle both of those in one meeting But I think we can do it and the more we can limit sort of Our clarification of questions of information that's already like very well spelled out in the applications that you know the better And if you have Questions try and maybe get them answered, you know before coming to the meeting so we can kind of get right to the discussion and right to the You know the meat of it, so You know, I think we can we can do it efficiently if we're prepared Meredith is there anything I think this is gonna be our first one with a lot of like flood info Yeah, but anything we should be aware of for that. Um, not really because you don't have to make the flood decisions Yeah, that's all me. It's more that it's just in there so we can understand it And so they they've had to you know, it doesn't go to the criteria you have to look at but The new the addition they've had to elevate it Right, so the whole like basement area all it can be used for a storage The first floor where actually people will be working and where they have any utilities all have to be elevated way up They have to have you'll you'll see in the plans that they have flood vents put in They also had to because of because they were building such a big expensive addition onto an existing maintenance garage They actually had to upgrade the maintenance garage as well So that I mean that information will be in the plans But it doesn't come into play for you as long as it meets the setbacks the building height You know, you're gonna look at the because it's major site plan You'll be looking at the architectural standards that apply about, you know How they've broken up the exterior of the building the look of the building But the you know how they've had to elevate it for flood Doesn't doesn't come into play for the board. Okay. Well, this would be interesting So our first one sort of post flood in coming forward like this. So, yeah Stormwater which yeah, yeah storm water comes into play erosion control all of that stuff still still pops up I did a bunch of moving and dirt on that site didn't to didn't they to So, so that's a whole separate that doesn't come before you guys I know three Three four different layers of permits for all the work that they're doing there because of flood stuff So, yeah, there's a bunch of other things that are going on in the site that our administrative site plan Slash flood hazard. Yeah, they did they did berms and then they had to reduce the berms. Yep, they did That was both both Because of just various state and local requirements, but nothing that came before the board If the old wharf arm gets turned into floodplain will that matter? I don't know what they call it now, but the family that used to own it was H-O-A-R-E. Yep. Um, so The will it matter is a really broad question, so they will need a Demolition permit for removing the structure if they remove the structure No, I'm thinking of the stormwater if there is a floodplain in the offing and And we have to make all what what are we? Storm stormwater stuff that triggers coming here would be adding impervious cover or excavation to just you know, and if their excavation is actually Within the stream to reduce the stream banks so the water can enter. That's not our jurisdiction at all That actually becomes a state jurisdiction is my understanding and Then it's not it's not stormwater. It's just it's floodplain. That's different. Yeah, I would make a motion to adjourn So moved all those in favor. All right. All right Thanks everybody Thank you