 And we have one, one visitor here at City Hall. Oh, wonderful. Great. Thanks for coming out. She's a visitor from California and Germany wants to see how we do things. Can you wave? Hello. Welcome. All right, so I'm going to call this meeting to order. So the first thing is to review and approve the agenda. And I don't think there are any changes to this agenda. Does anyone, oh, yes, Bill, go ahead. I just suggest that we take the item about the briefing on the security briefing, which is not going to be an executive session and move it up earlier. Maybe to like right after Gertin Park or something like that. Since it doesn't need to wait till after all the reports. Right, right. Absolutely. So we'll just make that the last piece of our regular agenda, regular business. That's fine. Great. So without objection, we will consider that agenda approved. Unless folks have other thoughts. Okay. So the first item. Okay. We're going to move on our agenda. Well, besides the, oh, um, Last time I had accidentally skipped general business and appearances, and it actually doesn't look like there is general business and appearances. So I'm going to just create that. Number four. Yeah, it's listed. Maybe I'm an old person. Okay. I will put a link to the. Agenda in the chat. Which I will now. Authorize briefly. Okay. Oh, I just updated mine and it's, it's, um, it's there now. Sorry. Um, Jack and Donna. Did you have a comment? I do not. I couldn't understand her. That's what I wanted to say. He was going to post the agenda in the chat. Thank you. Yep. Uh, okay. So, uh, general business and appearances. Uh, so this is an opportunity for any member of the public to address the council on any topic that is otherwise, um, not on our agenda. Um, and so if you want to say your name and where you live and try to keep your comments to about two minutes or less, that would be fabulous. Um, and that's true basically throughout the meeting. Um, and if you have a comment that is pertinent to, uh, one of the agenda items, uh, if you can make it then that would be great. Uh, all right. So any, any folks would like to address the council. I think, I think our guests would like to speak fabulous. So now you can speak as a, we just take a seat. Yeah. Okay. So the volume is okay. Yes, we can hear you. Okay. I just want to say it's lovely to be here. I came back from Europe after a few months there. I'm from California. Have an interest in natural health care, metabolic therapy, and especially agriculture. So I was just wanting to say, uh, Vermont is such a lovely area, even though the transportation is very challenging for me after enjoying the convenience of transportation in Europe. I have lost my physical license, so I can't rent a vehicle at this time. But, uh, in terms of agriculture, I would hope to see Vermont take off and go beyond the community plots and so on. And the, you know, what I see for evidence of organic and permaculture and hydroponic agriculture here, I think you could really do something spectacular. You could do winter greenhouses and, uh, modern digitized agriculture. Silicon Valley is taking off that way. India before COVID had about, I don't know, between five and 10 R and D agriculture, uh, startups. So, I mean, it's conceivable that a small state with unusual terrain could do something remarkable with agriculture, you know, if you had the right people. So I just wanted to put that out there. I'm very concerned about clean food and clean water and clean soil. And Monsanto, by the way, is in process of paying off about 85,000 plaintiffs, which have been deemed, or which the judge has ruled, uh, uh, suffered cancer or death due to the poison roundup ready. And the, uh, key chemical and roundup glyphosate also replaces human glycine in our DNA double strand. So as a result of that, collagen formation is disrupted. And we all suffer some degree of empowerment that way. So that's a new focus for healthcare practitioners who want to take on that challenge. So you can celebrate being the GMO human. Perhaps you never knew that until now. It's taken 40 to 50 years of Monsanto spraying and food crops around the world for that to, you know, happen to such an extent. So I left a few, uh, printouts here in the room, uh, just to remind you of those two, those subjects that are of interest to me. So it's wonderful to see your, your sophisticated presentation here. It's really exciting. It's an alternate way. And I'm sure there are advantages to this when people can't get together and mate with the, the cohesion of community, you know, and physical proximity. Thank you very much. Take care. Thank you. And if you wouldn't mind, what is your, what's your name and where do you live? Uh, Jacqueline Kant, I've been in Germany. I'm from California. I will probably go back to Germany soon. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. All right. So, uh, the next, uh, item. Um, is the appointment of, or actually, I'm sorry. Before we move on, is there anyone else who would like to address the council? Uh, Steve Whitaker. Go ahead, Steven. Uh, I am going to just talk peripherally in my comment about. The garden part, but I want to point out that. So far, the, at the end of the last meeting for y'all to execute the approve executing the contract with no access to the bathrooms in the transit center. And, and then to be talking, I wouldn't talk to the folks who use that shelter on a daily basis. And I just want to think that y'all are either oblivious or cool that you think you could just disregard and take away what little, so few, what you little, so few people have in the way of access to a bathroom or a place to, you know, get their meal or hang out with a little privacy. So I could go on and on. I've sent Donna Barlo Casey a list of maintenance issues that I've been raising for over three years now, none of which have been addressed. So I think y'all need to really take a wake up call and question whether you're effective at getting any of this stuff remedies and whether or not you need to change, seriously change your approach because so many of the precise detailed and solvable issues that I brought before you have been swept aside. Thank you. Thank you, Stephen. And we'll, I have no doubt that we will continue to talk about those things. So, I guess my point is talking about it and solving them is two different things. Yeah. Yeah. Fair enough. Okay. Anyone else. And Cameron, is there anyone you are seeing? No, man. Okay. All right. So then the next item that we have is. The last item is that we have an appointment to the police review committee or the police advisory committee. And for that. What I'd like to do is. Have folks who are here. Introduce themselves to us who are candidates who have got their. Applied for that committee. So I would like to ask you to tell us a little bit about your thoughts on policing. And then once we've had the opportunity to hear from all the folks who are. Candidates here. Then we'll go as a council. We'll go into executive session and we'll come back. To make some appointments. So I'm thinking that we should go. And then we'll go into executive session. And then we'll go into executive session. Alrighty. Who have applied. And so my one thought was would be that. I may just call on you in the order in which you appear on my screen. Which I realized may not be the same for everyone. But just for. For an order. So the way you all are appearing on my screen right now. I think we'll go into executive session. And then we'll go into any sacks. And then. Just to double check. I just want to make sure. Dr. Eric Jacobson, you, you were not a candidate. Is that correct? Or are you. You are. Okay. So Eric. Okay. Dantor was on. This is sure. Yep. So we'll go Michael. And then we'll go to Eric Jacobson. Eric Jacobson. And then Alyssa. And then Dan towel. And who am I missing? And people. The rest of my screen. I think that is. It. Okay. All right. So. Welcome. Thanks for being here and taking the time to. Introduce yourselves to us. So Michael, go ahead. Hi. Thank you for this time. I'm Michael Sherman. I live on college street. I'm a resident of Monterey for over 30 years. And I'm also a member of the social, economic and justice advisory committee. See Jack. And part of my application as I, as I suppose you read, is that. See Jack would like to be represented on this committee. And I am the one who volunteered to serve. I would like to be represented on this committee. I would like to do that. I want to make that would not be a spokesperson for the committee, the committee has not taken any position on it on policing yet. But I would be the eyes and ears. And would try to speak for myself. And if the. If the committee does take a position, I certainly would report that. I would like to hear your thoughts on policing. Well. I've been reflecting a lot over the past many months about. My own experience with police. I am a child. I sort of came to adulthood in the 60s. And probably one of the formative. Motion moments of my time. The police in Chicago in 1968. Which was a terrible time with the assassination of Martin Luther King. And the sort of explosion in the west side of Chicago, the police were advised by mayor daily at that point to shoot to. Mame looters and shoot to kill arsonists. And it became a kind of war between the police and the black community. And it became a kind of war between the police and the black community. In the west side. Kind of a culmination of a growing. Discomfort. And also a kind of generation gap. War between the police and young people opposing the Vietnam war. That culminated as you probably know, what the 1968 convention, democratic party convention. Where the police basically rioted. And it was a horrible experience. People who were in grand park. I was there. For some parts of that. And it was a horrifying experience and a demoralizing experience. And it really started my, you know, me thinking about the relationship between the police. And communities, especially in times of conflict and protest. And, and how do we defend democracy. And maintain some, some boundaries of, of, of civility. So in the recent months, of course, with all of what's going on, I've been collecting articles. Mostly articles by people who've been studying the police over many, many years. And I'm interested in this. I also have a personal connection to it because my son is a park ranger in the grand canyon park rangers are sworn officer, sworn officers of the federal government. So he's a law enforcement agent. And he and I have had a number of interesting conversations over the past several months about the role of the police and their, and the way in which police are trained. The kinds of constraints and the kinds of ambiguities that exist. So I have a kind of resource at hand that I would like to bring to any participation that you, any participation in this committee that you might, if you choose to point me. Any questions that you have? Thank you, Michael. Any questions. Yeah. Any questions from council? That was very helpful. Thank you. All right. Kenny. Hi. Hi, Ann. Okay. I heard okay. Yes, we can hear you just fine. Yeah. So, um, So my name is Kenny sacks. I've been also living in Montpelier for. It'll be 30 years. Uh, next week. I moved here from Canada. And, um, This is my home now. I've been here. You know, we've sort of, anyway, I don't want to get into politics, but, um, I'm really happy here. And, um, I just retired for the second time in June. I've been a teacher for the last, uh, 20 odd years. Um, 16 at U 32. And then the last three years at, um, Maple Hill school and playing field. I'm a special educator. Um, I worked with kids with significant emotional issues that became my specialty over the years. And, um, I saw this notice about. This oversight committee. I'm not sure if there's an official title, but, um, I've been looking for something to some way to involve myself in the community. Now that I have the luxury of time. And, um, This sort of, I think this could be really good. Um, my thoughts on police. I, I don't have an agenda. I know we're hearing a lot of defund police. Everywhere. And I think it's an unfortunate term. Um, I prefer something, you know, rethink, redesign, re, look, reassess. Um, rather than just say. Cut everything. Um, I've never had anything like that. I've never had an issue with Montpelier police per se. I've never had an issue with police in Vermont. Um, I couldn't say the same thing when I lived in Montreal. I didn't have personal, um, Experiences, but, um, I know that I didn't want to mess with police in Montreal. Um, here, I've never felt in any way. Threatened, but you know, I'm. Of the demographics that the demographic group that is not usually threatened by police. So, um, I don't know what else I could add. I've just, I'm very interested. Again, I don't have an agenda. I would like to participate. And I think I have some. Something to offer. Great. Thank you. Any questions from the council? Okay. Um, all right. Uh, Dr. Jacobson. Hi. Can you hear me? Yes. Again. Um, I, um, I just, uh, Just found out about the meeting a few minutes ago. So I am not entirely prepared to speak, but I could tell you a little bit about myself. Um, I'm Eric Jacobson. I, uh, live on College Street. We moved to Imperial about four years ago from Corinth, YL London. And my wife and I, and our, um, Now nine year old son, uh, we're there for 10 years. He was born there. And prior to that, I was in Berlin. And I was in Vermont in the 80s. I grew up in New York city. Um, My, uh, so I'm your professor. I teach, um, philosophy and religion. And ethics. Um, I've been involved as a head of department of the city university in London. In an inner city, uh, setting. Uh, so I am familiar with the responsibilities of being, um, Um, Um, responsible for young people and, um, Um, Perhaps, uh, the responsibilities of working within a social and structure. Um, What else can I tell you? I've done some human rights work, uh, and community organizing over the years. 1991 to 1993. I was in New York city. And I did community organizing in Harlem. That had a human rights and civil rights. Uh, dimension. I, um, I guess before that. 1989. I did, um, human rights work, which related to civilian population in the. Israel and Palestine. And so from that point forward, I've had an ongoing interest in, um, Civics and human rights. And I've taught that in London. Uh, and now we're in, I'm happy to be of service. I do have to say that I, I also play a role at the, uh, And the council of the hunger. Um, Food co-op and I am aware that I might have to take a leadership role in this coming year. So there is one, um, Concern that I have about an additional commitment, but I, I am, uh, interested in open. And maybe the last thing I should say is that I had an opportunity to meet. Chief Pete during one of his, um, meeting great sessions when he first came and, uh, spoke with a member who was very impressed with him and with his appointment. Uh, so I'll leave it there and open to any questions that you have. Thank you. Um, any questions from council? Okay. Thank you. Um, Dan. Dan was. He was here. And seems to have disappeared. Um, Okay. Um, so, uh, we'll skip Dan for now. See if you come back. Um, And, uh, so on to Alyssa, go ahead. Hi everyone. Nice to see you. Can you hear me okay? Yep. Great. Uh, well, I'm Alyssa. Sharon, I live in Montpelier and have been here for the last 20 years, which makes me feel so old to say that number now. Hope I don't look at it. Just kidding. Um, my husband and I are, have been active in the community here. My son is at union elementary. Um, and before moving to Montpelier, I lived in Hartford, Connecticut. And before that, Boulder, Colorado, before that in San Francisco. Um, so have had an opportunity to see the way police have functioned in, um, smaller and larger contacts. Professionally over the last 20 years, uh, in addition to nonprofit work, I've also done government work. And with all that, um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, offices are run and as part of that work I have been working over the last three and a half years a lot on criminal justice reforms issues so my background is in environmental and policy issues environmental policy issues and I had kind of come up through doing environmental advocacy and then running the environmental department for the state of Vermont as commissioner and deputy commissioner there the last three and a half years I have worked with probably in some capacity I would say 25 or so different prosecutors offices who are doing reform-oriented work and trying to change the criminal justice system from the inside and through that work I have had the opportunity to work also with the police and do stakeholder processes both internally in folks the offices around culture change around the issue of criminal justice and then also you know doing some community engagement whether that's surveying focus groups like analysis of the data that comes in and helping to map out paths on these issues moving forward so I'm very interested in policing in our community and when this opportunity came up I was thinking oh it would be a great way to try to learn from some of the models and things that I've seen in other places across the country and maybe utilize those here right here in my backyard and maybe that's some of the management skills I've outlined and maybe that's some of them some of the models that I've been how to benefit to see more up close and personal so I think I would be really interested in more of a data-driven approach to engaging in this topic and a real community-based approach to engaging in the topic and I would be excited to work with people who are you know also interested and in that type of approach my opinion on police generally you know I have seen successful community-based you know community-oriented policing models I tend to think that you know areas of interest for me I would be to make sure that the way that we're utilizing our police are in the in the past and most like in the ways they are most comfortable in trying to be utilized and that we are maximizing our social service and you know social systems that exist and and make sure that police role is more limited and targeted though I think the community-based relationship can be very broad and very strong so you know I think we get I think we would do the work to figure out what exactly how to thread this needle and in our community and the types of investments that we would want to be making here but that just gives you a little bit of a flavor of my approach and at this point I feel like I'm still about starting so I'm going to end and see if you have any questions thanks for the opportunity thank you any questions okay all right so I see Dan is back which is great and also Jen Duggan or Duggan I'm not sure how to say your name but noticing that you're on here as well so let's have Dan go introduce himself and then Jen just so you're aware we're having all the folks who have applied for the police advisory committee introduce themselves and tell us a little bit about their thoughts on policing so Dan go ahead okay can you hear me okay and yep I was having technology issues I tried to dial in and that didn't work so now I'm back video first of all I just want to start off by saying that my primary lens for coming to this committee is as someone to represent the voice of those with mental health conditions and their loved ones you know and then more broadly those that are marginalized my thoughts on police I have a great respect for law enforcement particularly here in Montpelier Vermont after living in southern New England for most of my life I'd also met Chief Pete and corresponded with him and I'm very optimistic about his leadership here in our lovely city but at the same time in the in my work and in my volunteer efforts in and the mental health peer and peer support community I've seen some of the abuses and some of the negative impacts and so you know I hope to bring to this committee a sort of a balanced approach with you know with a representing that the the mental health perspective I myself was diagnosed with a major mood disorder over 35 years ago and struggled with stigma and discrimination and in the corporate America moved to Vermont five years ago and got involved in the mental health community as a peer support worker I answer calls for pathways warm line I also facilitate support groups peer support groups at CVMC and and the Vermont psychiatric care hospital I'm also a passionate volunteer mental health and peer support advocate I said I'm a number of statewide committees including the Department of Mental Health's adult state program standing committee and in that role I have developed over the last four years four or five years connections and relationships and knowledge of practices throughout the state including including with law enforcement and finally throughout my life I've been very civic very involved in civic activities currently I'm on the board of the Cross Vermont Trail Association and I'm a past chairman of the Union River Exchange to me helping and contributing to my community is an absolute core value and I hope to bring my experience here in Vermont as well as the corporate experience as a finance and process improvement consultant to this very important committee great thank you Dan any questions yeah okay and Jen it's Doug in again okay thank you yeah so hi everybody my name is Jen Duggan and I am you know I guess I can start with my you know thoughts on policing and why I'm interested in serving on this committee you know I have a deep respect for law enforcement you know at the same time I think that we have to begin to grapple and confront systemic racism as it shows up in law enforcement and all of our institutions and so this the committee's focus in terms of looking at data and trends and really grappling with realities and that approach being very data driven was is very interesting to me I feel like that's a really important place to ground the conversation and you know I am really appreciate the opportunity to look at this issue in a systemic way and thinking about how we balance the the benefits you know that our police provide to the community all of the positives while we are working to you know to address systemic racism and getting very real about that you know I think that we as a community have said all the right things and I and I'm I'm really hopeful that this is the first step to moving towards action to really identifying those inequities that are surfacing in our you know police systems in our community and identifying the actions that we're going to do to disrupt that and so that's a little bit about my interest in serving on the committee you know I also really believe in this community and would be you know really honored to to volunteer my time and serve in this capacity I think that you know I have a lot of different you know skill sets in my in in my background I have engaged and you know both nonprofit advocacy working on environmental justice issues and pollution issues as well as working in state government so I bring a variety of different perspectives and I'll just stop there but happy to answer any questions me thank you any questions okay so in the meanwhile has anyone else shown up madam mayor madam mayor this is Stephen Whitaker yes at the last time y'all took this up I did express interest I would like you to clarify how you see the evolution of whether this might be a formative exploratory committee but in the context of the budget emergency that we're facing maybe it has a more important charge or you were that this committee might lead to a police oversight commission that would do the dirty work I have already expressed to the council in my 30 years in my failure that I've been both on the good side and the bad side I don't think we're only dealing with racial discrimination here we've got class discrimination we've got home discrimination etc we've got you know I've been stolen from I've been yanked down the stairs and cuffs by John Martin may he rest in peace for attending an open meeting of the 9-1-1 board which I was serving on a subcommittee of so I've seen both the good side in the under bit dark underbelly of this police force and I think I would provide a valuable contribution to asking the tough questions in doing so in a timely manner so that if we do need to make some serious budget cuts in the next year we do that in an informed way I do think we're disproportionately overpoliced and under prepared with the mental health witness the assassination of Mark Johnson though which is still being investigated thank you thank you Stephen okay is there anyone else I've missed okay all right so at this point what unless there's any other comments or thoughts from council yes Donna go ahead I wasn't sure whether you heard from any of the other candidates sometimes they email us when they can attend that is a good question and I did not I did not hear from any of the other candidates and put that out to the council if anyone else we didn't at City Hall okay thank you and Jay did I see a hand yes oh no okay all right so at this point I think so we're gonna go into executive session Jack yes pursuant to one VSA section 313 a 3 I move that we go into executive session consider the appointment of a public official okay great so we have a motion in a second I don't really know how long will be so I'm gonna guess that because we're appointing quite a few more actually I'm not we're not even we have yet to decide how big it will be so there's a number of things for us to discuss so when we come back we'll we'll make some appointments all right so any further discussion okay all in favor please say aye the discussion of the size that doesn't seem like it would be appropriate for executive session you could skate right into it but then do both at once but I'm trying struggling to get there that is a good point thank you just to suggest the same thing Dave we have to decide how many to appoint today whether that's the size of the committee or not that's true Dan go ahead yeah in addition the last time I spoke to the chief of police he did not have a good sense of what the time commitment would be and and you know more specifically what you were thinking you know in terms of the roles and responsibilities beyond what was outlined so if there's any more thoughts in that regard that would be helpful yes that that is a good question so perhaps before we go we actually go into executive session we should clarify a few things here well I just on behalf of the council and I'm sure they'll correct me if I'm incorrect the what was written the summary of activity was the product of a pretty long council discussion as to what was the plan was and so I think that that is the work they expect as per an earlier comment if the group comes back and says we recommend the following as an ongoing group or whatever then then you could either choose to continue yourselves or recommend that it be reformed so I think the council's thought was the sort of task laid out was the defined task for this initial group and then take the recommendations of that group as far as moving forward and if someone was to correct me I'm happy to be corrected I think that's fair Lauren go ahead and then Donna that's that's accurate and you know I think we had some discussion about that the group that gets appointed really looking at the charge and kind of digging into what that will look like and deciding on a schedule that will work for the people who are appointed as you know as you kind of take a look at that scope and you know some committees have come back and refined it and you know it's made a suggestion to council of here's what we're thinking that this means to us is that right are we on the right track so I could see this committee since you know it's a brand new one doing that kind of approach so I think they're I would see it as a function to some degree about the group that gets together and how they lay out you know what kind of schedule they want to get for what kind of products and and working from it from there which I know is unsatisfying when you're trying to look at the time commitment but that was what we had talked about and Donna go ahead well along those lines I wasn't sure if everybody online realized that attached to the agenda there are six points of references of what we're expecting the committee to do and one is as Laura Lauren mentioned number six talks about making recommendations for future charge and functions but it's a pretty broad scope right now so if you haven't seen this if you double click on the agenda you can review it so as to the number of folks on the committee I would feel like that that's something we should discuss before we go into executive session I'm gonna put out there that I think we should be looking for an odd number of people and probably no more than nine beyond nine it gets kind of unwieldy other thoughts Bill go ahead just point of information I believe you had said at the last meeting you were planning to put two council members on as well so if you had nine you'd be looking at seven additional people I think you just try to be clear about that right yep thank you any other comments yes Dan sure I'll simply add I think nine would be a little bit big because this isn't necessarily a Supreme Court body that needs but at the same time I think one thing that's really nice is both the people who the applicants who've come tonight as well as the applicants there have really reflect a number of diverse points of view and backgrounds and so you know I'm I understand that it's not appropriate for a executive session to put the discussion of how many members were on but you know I think nine is a cap I think five would be sort of a minimum like we wouldn't want less than five in addition you know I think it's also helpful for everyone to know as far as their commitment goes I've actually reached out to Norwich University and they have an intern program and there's some preliminary conversation about allowing an intern to help staff this committee from their criminal justice department it's not set in stone but they they have an intern program where they provide both access to the the student as well as some of the supporting professors as far as doing some of the data collection and heavier lifting that we might expect this committee so the the good news is that I don't think we would have committee members being required to do some of that and there would be some assistance available so you know I think that that may help in that you don't necessarily need nine oars because there's no source of support at the same time so I for me the big consideration is really looking for a diverse number of voices on on this board that reflects really the the conversations we've been having and hearing here at City Council as well as outside so that's my those are my two cents Donna go ahead are you actually looking for a motion of a number I mean I like the range of five to nine that Dan mentioned I'd be willing to make a motion that we go with the range of five to nine members including that includes the two City Council members that sounds good to me yeah second anybody okay so we have a motion in a second any further discussion on the number of folks okay all in favor please say aye aye and opposed okay so thank you for that good clarification and so I don't think we actually did having a hard time remembering if we actually voted to go into executive session Russian nesting doll right yeah so we did have a motion in a second to go into executive session is there anything further on that okay all in favor please say aye aye okay and opposed okay all right well we will be back hopefully soon executive session so we'll second okay for the discussion all in favor please say aye aye and opposed okay so is there a motion I'll make a motion I move that we appoint the following individuals to the police review committee Michael Sherman Alyssa shardin Dan toll Jim Duggan and then two council representatives Lauren Hurl and Jack McCullough second okay any further discussion there I just want to say to everyone who applied for this we're so grateful for your interest and actually I think I might have more about more to say about this in a little bit yes yes exactly so so there's a motion in a second so any further discussion all in favor please say aye and opposed okay thank you and yes so Dan anything further Lauren go ahead I was going to make a motion that we appoint Jeremy Bodry and Samuel Lynch to the social and economic justice advisory committee further discussion there no yeah I'll just simply add that they had indicated that they were interested in participating in the social and economic justice committee as well as police review committee and so given that there are openings and that there are that we've advertised for a position previously I feel justified in making these additional appointments of these two individuals good all right so there's been a motion in a second on favor please say aye and opposed okay so that passes and then Dan yes I'd like to make another motion I'd like to add make a motion that we add to the scope of the police review committee the following charge that the committee shall meet and reach out to potential stakeholders and review whether additional members should be added to the police review committee and make such recommendations to us within the first 60 days of their existence as a committee second okay any further discussion about this Jack it's it's worth pointing out that we had a large number of applications for this committee anyone who's not been put on the committee tonight but did apply is potentially still in play and but we could also be reaching out to other people once we look around the table and see who's not there who really should be yeah okay any further discussion on the this additional scope Michael go ahead and then Dan yeah just wanted to know who's going to convene this committee and when good question good question coming we'll figure that out yeah usually my office helps set that up and I was sitting at one of the one or both of the city council will take the lead in terms of establishing the first meeting and then okay thanks and anything to add Dan well first I just want to thank you for appointing me to the committee and and make give you my commitment that I work as hard as I can and try to involve as many many as possible of the stakeholders as we go through this process and also I'm really pleased to hear Dan's comment about expanding the committee because it strikes me that I if I counted correctly there's six of us initially that would be great to have at least a handful more so we have a broader set of stakeholders so kudos to you for for that piece of it as well so thank you thank you yeah so I guess I would just also add I'm also very grateful for everyone who applied to this committee and and as Jack and Dan mentioned we don't feel done with the the folks necessarily who are on this committee but are looking for potentially a variety of voices so I just want to leave that out there and in the meanwhile just very grateful for your dedication and service on this committee so there's been a motion a second about this the scope I'm looking at that the folks on the committee is there there was a second so any further discussion okay all in favor please say aye aye aye okay and opposed okay all right thank you again everyone and I guess either Bill or City Councilor or some city staff will be in touch about getting together you'll be the person actually runs everything Mary Smith excellent okay super all right well so we are gonna move on then to the consent agenda is there a is there a motion regarding the consent agenda I'll move that we accept the consent agenda okay motion a second all in favor or any further discussion on the consent agenda okay all in favor please say aye aye aye and opposed okay all right so that passes on to legislative priorities and yes Donna Jenna Claire was there maybe she wanted to say something I think she may disappear but that's okay super all right so for the legislative agenda I I assume I'm either turning us over to Bill or to Connor or one of the basically one of the folks from the group you went from the group was to start that's fine good either way I you know I'll just say that we met a couple times there this is building off the work we did last legislative session which which I think everybody would agree it was a good conversation we had with our legislative delegation and this agenda I think is meant to be sort of interpreted pretty broadly with sort of the principles and everything because we really we don't know what we don't know at this point and the elephant in the room is you know as the pandemic keeps going here there's going to be a lot of sources to tap for additional revenue hopefully and it's going to be a matter of just keeping sort of the eye on the prize here but this is really a foundation we had it bigger at first and we you know added a lot of stuff that we really think we need some discussion with our legislative delegation just to see what's possible and then there are other items you know in terms of you know policing and everything that I think we want to hear some feedback from the group we just appointed before taking any positions at the legislature what we're looking at but there are many things like you know postponing reappraisals pushing that back you know pushing for any charter changes we still got a while to get it on the on the ballot from March there I think January we have to do and I think it's a good collaborative exercise we've also discussed the potential of bringing more community members maybe people who are already at the state house already sitting in these committees who can give us a heads up because you know some of this is going to be offense but a lot of it's going to be defense with what's coming our way there so other things we added like you know maybe look at as well the kind of public restrooms is there a partnership we could have at the state there given that this is the capital a lot of tours coming into town and everything and they might be using it so you know discussions like that but I'll quit yapping and anybody else wants to weigh in so procedurally the plan was you know this committee came up with this draft if the council is generally okay with this draft what we were going to do is wait till next Tuesday's election and see who is elected to our our delegation and then invite those folks to our meeting probably on the 18th of November to review the draft and see what they you know get their input on what's possible as we said and what hot issues they see and then after that adopt a final version beginning of December that we can actually say here is our legislative policy so to speak and here is we're getting so I think today was is this the right direction of the things you want to add some track ask questions about you know that before we send the draft out and invite the legislators Donna thank you all for doing this work when I was reading it over it seemed that some things could be lumped together and then with headings like a broad heading about net zero energy and then more of the specifics that are now in like a couple different items and likewise about government can you know more municipal control I think those could go under a heading and then under those you have a two or three items I just feel it's sort of scattered you know and I'd like to see it more focused so that you're concerned about local control and this are the reason these are the things we got to watch for we're concerned about net energy these are the things we want to watch for and I would like to see you know the council look at that if it were to be redone and have us prioritize them I think that's also important but thank you for your work it give me a lot of thought well I can offer and I'm fairly confident something it's that heavy a left we could probably have that reform and for next week's meeting and then you could just take a look at that and if you said we want to prioritize it and by then we at least we will know who the delegation was but we can at least and we can still send them the final version after next week because we won't be inviting them till at least fourth anyway so Lauren go ahead yeah I think that's a great idea Donna I make it more clear and some priorities and there's some things that you know we want to make clear that we want to make sure the city is actually engaging in versus things we're just kind of monitoring and assume that other entities will be advancing and if we were invited or something maybe we'd support it so that would be great to have some more clarity and I'm viewing this as iterative wanting to hear what the delegation has to say and if there's you know big things that aren't on our radar but that would have big implications for the city that we might add things or or shape as well I mean I think getting it more organized for the delegation before we send it to them is a great first step but I also think it'll probably change a little from there either from input from staff or from the delegation before you know as we get clarity of other kind of big ideas that are going to be part of the discussion this year at the State House that we think we might want to weigh in on thanks so one possibility is that maybe we put off approving this tonight for it to be reorganized and bring it up again at the next meeting how are people feeling about that Jack go ahead that's fine with me as far as the substance of this goes I don't have any problem now saying yeah this is on the right track and if if people want to do some work on organizing or rephrasing things then that that is fine but I'm not I haven't seen anything here that that I would say well this committee is way off base this isn't what the city where the city should be going at all and I think that giving some kind of even just a general yeah you're on the right track is probably a good idea other thoughts okay so no that's fine and one of the things we talked about with the committee we had had a list that had been staff issues that they were tracking we took that off to just the council so I'll see if we can get at least their preliminary list from next week as well okay all right so maybe it sounds like maybe we're not going to take any action on this tonight and we'll take this up again another time unless folks have other thoughts I would like to move forward go ahead Dan sorry not to belabor this I mean I feel comfortable moving forward on it of course I was on the committee that helped draft this as well and you know I think we could go we could simply approve it tonight and reformat it later because I think it's really a formatting issue and since the consensus is there I guess that's the way I would favor but I'm also fully comfortable waiting to next week if people want to see it reorganized that's that's fine Donna how do you feel about that it's part of just my mindset I can't figure out exactly what's missing until because it's so scrambled and so that was my issue it's like what is this saying so I tried to organize it the darts of what was connected and but fine I can I can pass it tonight if the group wants to I just find it not letting me know what's missing because it's not organized that's all but I'll add things later when they come up okay yeah yeah fair enough to make a motion Dan okay well I'll move that we approve our legislative priorities a legislative agenda the as submitted okay is there a second second and any further discussion Jack one thought and I don't want to get into nitpicky comments of course anytime says that someone says that it's because they're about to make him the pity picky comment but for item 4 for the support funding for public restrooms to serve visitors to state and city facilities I I'm not sure exactly what the language should be but I think that for using it that way makes it seem kind of seem like we're saying it's for tourists where we it is for tourists but it's also for Montpelier residents who live here but do not have homes and and need a place to go to the bathroom so as it's I'm fine with passing it and saying let's tweak that language yeah and I think that was the intent of the committee was was that broader you know we're seeking funding we won't have a tourist only badge to activate the rest of the city I agree okay great any further discussion okay all in favor please say aye and opposed okay so that passes the COVID-19 update okay I think we should be good so I'll briefly go through it it's a pretty big update this week so in your memo you'll see in that the governor is concerned and so our health state health officials about the emerging COVID-19 outbreaks that have been occurring in Vermont the I want to state what the governor said because I think it's important he stated that we've gotten complacent in Vermont and that we've let our guard down and we are seeing the effects of that he says that as Vermonters we have to reverse the trend of increasing COVID-19 cases through our individual and collective actions Dr. Levine also stressed the importance of wearing masks in the last few weeks saying the science around them has grown and that they're known now to protect mask wearers as well the people in their vicinity even if they're not wearing a mask and that wearing a mask may also reduce the viral load for people who do end up contracting the virus so even if you do get sick if you're wearing a mask he said that that can actually lessen the impact of the illness so other updates from the state included an extension of the state of emergency through November 15th there's also been some interesting announcements including a free community class courses sorry free community college courses and training for the next two months to all Vermonters whose work and household situations have changed due to COVID so that's can be accessed at the VSC edu website the state also noted that they released a vaccine preparedness plan to the CDC and they also announced a partnership between UVM and a drug trial that will be trialing a certain vaccine that will be hopefully rolling out very shortly they are looking for volunteers particularly those in the above 65 demographic to help them test this vaccine so some sports updates the ice rinks have been directed to shut down their schedules for two weeks that will be through midnight October 30th all skating rinks are closed and they did announce a recreational grant for ski areas to help the skis areas provide safe skiing for the season the grants are up to two hundred thousand dollars each they've also expanded the economic recovery grants so there's a new round available there that can be accessed through the ACCB website so we're still open as the city but because of these outbreaks I do want it to be known that we will probably be looking at our state for any guidance on reclosures that hasn't been confirmed I just want to put that in front of you as something that could come back up but there are some other openings that this city is doing a recreation department is going ahead with some of the new guidance for winter sports and allowing more types of sports to use our rental facility within the rec you know the rec facility things that have been opened include base five on five basketball and indoor soccer so we're going to be allowing groups of ten to rents that space for an hour only and then again community meal information was included in the memo and another way is so looking for donations for camping gear does anyone have any questions Jack go ahead thank you thanks camera and I particularly appreciate you being the fun you squeezed in on the ice rink item there I took that from the state can't claim that that's funny so I wanted to keep it the I was just thinking about this the other day with the with the vaccine plan will there be a role for municipalities to be involved in rolling that out or is that all going to be at the state level is it on my understanding is that it's at the state level but they will be probably reaching out to Chief Gowans is our official health officer if they do need any assistance so if they need anything from us he'd be their point of contact and because of the outbreaks I will also say that Chief Gowans is working with the state right now to make sure that they can give us a daily update on cases in our area they have not been able to provide that yet but they are working on that for us we we think it's of most importance to have a daily update from the state regarding our region great thank you Donna I just also want to thank Cameron not only for the details in the report but these links I want you to know the trouble you go to put them in there I use them it's terrific I really appreciate it thank you great any other questions or comments I just I wanted to share that as you guys know I think we have been doing some indoor activities and have done one meal indoors at the senior center we opted this week because of the recent rise in COVID locally to cancel the meal that we had intended to host on on Tuesday you know despite the fact folks were going to be really far distanced and low numbers and everything we just decided it wasn't worth the risk so as we go forward we're scheduling one indoor meal a month but all of them will be tentative until such time that we feel that it's truly safe so we we continue with a few indoor activities with small numbers and masking and health screening and everything and if you guys have any questions about senior center operations while I'm on tonight I'm happy to answer them great thank you okay any other questions comments okay all right well thanks again Cameron thank you yeah so we're gonna move on then to discussion about the Gerton Park structure so the this is a carryover item from last meeting and just so you are aware I I did try to reach out to Paige to get her thoughts and feedback but I we were not able to connect unfortunately so I don't have myself much to update there other thoughts on this so so we do have a this recommendation about moving it so I will just say at least for my part from the conversations that I have had with folks using that space that there's a range of opinions actually about the future of that structure and that but said but folks were that least the folks that I talked to were not like adamant that it stay there and you know it's it is kind of a cool spot in the world in general and I think potentially something else like we could continue to like imagine what might work better in that space so that's just another possibility something I want to put out there for you all other thoughts on possibility of moving that structure Dan I've received a couple comments from constituents and who have been in favor of moving the pocket park out of that or sorry the structure out of that particular location you know and the stated reasons are that you know it's a particularly tight corner there's fences on either side that force everyone going up and down that particular area to be within a narrow corridor and especially given the way in which we are currently having to distance try and distance when especially out on the pocket park a number of constituents said that they felt uncomfortable with that and so you know my own experience and I wouldn't necessarily substitute that for a broader it's consistent with that you know it's not that the structures I mean some beautiful structure I think the alternative location at the the pump park is a good location and you know I don't think we abandoned that that spot but I think whatever goes in I don't know if that's the best spot for a structure but I think we need to rethink that entire stretch from really that bridge all the way to the other bridge and how people use that space and how they are using that space we've received complaints about I've received complaints about you know other uses along that corridor you know that have they're disruptive and I think it's you know I think we have to rethink about how how how we use that to the best of our advantage as a city and as a community as a welcoming and opening place and you know I don't think that removing this change is the character of that I think it it improves that particular junction and I think it's a it's a conversation we continue to have and that my thought other thoughts thank you Donna good I know I'm a minority I really felt it was an ugly spot before we put it there and yes kids have to slow down on their bikes to make the corner but I hope whatever we replace it with that it says pretty and and really breaks up the whole fence into the parking lot that's behind it there on that stretch of the shared use path so I hope we're not just closing that space off to asphalt thank you I think that's I think it could be I've always felt that that spot has a lot of potential I think it's a really interesting spot and so I agree I'm I wanted to be I wanted to be special like I wanted to be awesome so anyway other thoughts Jack go ahead I haven't spent much time on that that recently as it's gotten colder I've heard some comments from from constituents largely negative about about the space and and what the experience is like to go by there and it's true it's a bit of a choke point what kind of bothers me is that nobody has actually said this but there's sort of an undercurrent of this having this structure there is is something that attracts homeless people to this place and and we don't like it for that reason and anyone who's written to me I'll say you right now I know you haven't said that but I'm just to the extent that that's part of the flavor of the conversation I think we should have more of a community conversation before making a decision of what to do about it and it's always really kind of surprised that we put it on the agenda for this week because it struck me that it was probably premature but it does seem like the kind of thing where we'd like to hear what more the community has to say about it for whatever it's worth in addition to that just to build on what you're saying Jack from the conversations that I've had with folks there it sounds to me as well that like you know not all the folks that are leaving trash if you will which is not the only problem but that there I mean it's I think that sometimes gets blamed on folks that are homeless but I don't think that that is necessarily always the case I think there's an assumption there as well which is not to invalidate your point I you know I agree that that's you know something that is also true I just want to also point out that yeah that the trash is there's some kind of event diagram there I guess I'll leave it at that other thoughts you're gonna take public comment yes yeah and now would be fine Steven okay I I've spent a lot of time thinking about this I don't hang out there but I do go and check on it and the people there regularly for several years now and I've spoken to most of them we use it some are disgusted some are the part of contributing to the problem it really when we talk about systemic racism we this is the most immediate example of our systemic classism that we're annoyed with the folks that don't have anywhere else to go that drink can get obnoxious and throw their trash over the bank and our best way of dealing with that is not to do our planning first and come up with alternatives of where it is safe to drink or camp or hang out you know potentially find incentives to not trash the place or penalties for doing so but instead we basically just take take our take it away and it really does feel disingenuous and punitive because yes it's a tight corner but where else do we have that there's a slight roof over people's head for people who don't they're not people are not going to there's a number of people aren't allowed in another way that hang out there but some of those same people are the ones who are regularly crapping on the riverbank and y'all refuse to deal with that too so I just need to get that in edgewise so you've got a problem that truly you're heading to say an approach to social services the city doesn't do social services well the city damn well needs to do social services because that's what's causing that problem which will just move somewhere else you know so to have not talked to page is really insulting that this is you know I've talked to page and she has clear thoughts about it and she agrees with we need to address the issue that's really the underlying the elephant in the room so I I'm not I'm so annoyed with the lack of cooperation around keeping it clean but yet if it takes a month talking to both parks and public works director and we still can't get the power washing done I'm not sure it's just the city it's just the homeless people's lack of cooperation I'm speaking to you know so I think you get my point and I applaud Jack for standing up to say hey you know maybe we're moving real fast and it is part of a broader discussion and I'll take this opportunity to say we still need to have the discussion about Mark Johnson you know that was not stuck into the next meeting's agenda as number seven you need to warn a public hearing and have that but I think you hear my point that there's another way it's not going to be the only place that search that serves or creates a these folks lead safe somewhat private space they need incentive to keep clean up after themselves they need access to a place to clean themselves up so that they don't feel like they're just being crap gone by the city and therefore why shouldn't they crap back on the city and many of them say that that's what they feel like doing right routinely even on your front steps of city hall so you are really not dealing with the issue that has been created by neglecting it for so long and sorry my words are angry and frustrated but that's what comes with the territory thank you fair enough thank you Steven okay um other other any other thoughts on this Dan and then look like maybe learn learn sorry learn do you want to go first um I guess it was a half hand because I feel like I'm still formulating my thought but I mean I do kind of have the sense with this you know we're we're talking about moving the structure because of you know a few different problems and issues with with the site and location and some of it does seem like you know who's using it and how and I was I guess I was curious like have we talked to the homelessness task force and are there you know if are we creating some other issue by not looking at you know what's like this is obviously serving some kind of need so just moving it without some thought around that you know I'd rather have that conversation and do it knowing that we've we've had that conversation I guess is how I'm feeling of you know what what need is it filling and why and what are we you know providing instead or awareness you know like what's what's what's the alternative or is it and maybe Cameron just popped on so can provide some context I would just be curious what that group if they've laid in at all they have talked about it but not as a formal agenda item and so I will make a suggestion to the chair can to add that to our next agenda and then I can come back to you with that information fair enough Connor and then actually Dan did you have a thought Connor can go first okay and go ahead Connor I think I'm kind of going in the same direction it's I think you could say okay this one small structure is symbolic of all the problems that are plaguing the city but you also could just say it would be better suited in another location I don't know for sure honestly and I think maybe having a couple weeks just throw a few posts on social media you know are we moving into the best location does it need to be moved what do people think about this I don't think that's a bad thing and I think the homeless homelessness task force is a good group to take a solid look at this okay Dan that's okay I mean you know well I guess I was just waiting to have everyone else here because I you know I think I want to respond to some of the things that have been stated which is you know I don't think of this as a homelessness problem this is just a structure that fits poorly into a tight area and I don't think of it as a homeless issue with the trash and other sort of things because I've certainly seen plenty of people that you know well I mean I don't know I haven't followed them home but do not have the do not present necessarily as part of the the homeless population they seem to be kids around town you know that these are this is just it's a structure that's in a odd place it's trying to spruce up what's otherwise a pavement area but it's not a good fit and I think that we're coming into the fall and winter so moving it is not an unreasonable it's not in a reasonable time and it can always be moved back in the spring if the homelessness task force if other stakeholders say you know this is absolutely the best place for this structure but I don't feel that this is you know this isn't punitive towards the homelessness population this is just about making sure that the the park has a certain I mean sorry the bike path has a certain comfort level and safety for the users of it you know because of the radius and then because of the turn it's narrow it's sharp the structure sticks very close to it and it's hard to socially distance as you're going by if somebody's at the structure and there's traffic going either way it's at a nexus point you know I think that you know moving it I don't see where the structure would necessarily stay in this particular spot and maybe its final spot is somewhere down the bike path or in another closer location but I think this particular spot you know is just from what I've heard from constituents and from what I've seen myself is just not a good fit and I think it may it makes as much sense to move it to a different location and and address some of these issues I think these are important issues to address that we're all discussing I just think we have to you know we have to address this use of of this bike path that we've been hearing that people are not don't feel like they can socially distance there and I think it's a good you know this is a good temporary step and part of an ongoing conversation thank you yeah I'll agree with Dan on this I just think that it's I don't think that the location of this structure is totally you know I think we're talking about a bigger issue and a smaller issue I think that the location of the structure is inappropriate given the bottleneck especially when we're talking about social distancing right now the it if we're if we're want to have a broader conversation about how as Dan said earlier about how that corridor is used and we've heard from people who live there and all the challenges then I think that there those issues are not dependent on the location of that structure so I'd support moving the structure but then having a broader conversation around how that section of the bike path is used as it as it leads up to the transit center yeah I'll leave it at that thanks okay fair enough Morgan I see that you've popped on here do you want to address the council on this that's why my hands raised yes okay very good yeah so if I understand correctly back when I had been on the homeless this task force and maybe even before that but also after I think this is the location that people have been bringing up concerns about the bad then it wasn't whitewash like it is right now you know people are trying to you know say it's about this and say it's about that back then you know people were saying yeah you know some people using it you know who are living homeless and the accusation was you know all the garbage and stuff was a result of them and all that and now we don't want to say that it's people who might be living homeless they use it and you know blah blah blah now we want to like change it and gloss over and and and when I say we I don't mean me and certain other people you know I agree with Steve Whitaker you know with the substance of what he's you know saying and and I'm glad that Jack brought this up you know so you know people are trying to say well COVID-19 and you know social distance all that although that might have a certain application you know the real issue here that people having a problem with appears to be you know the people that are utilizing the structure right so let's talk about that okay you know it's it's alright and the thing is is if you want to bring other people onto the conversation how about those who might be using that structure you know women homeless who might be you know not just the homeless this task force but people who are actually using the structure you know let's hear from them you know and you know before you get into discussion about you know getting rid of the structure you know you got to really talk about addressing the needs here that bring all this about you know and having some place else and as far as another way it goes my understanding is besides some people not be able to go there because they've been banned or or they can't get there you know my understanding is it's gonna be a limited opening and that's like next month the middle next month you know and what what we got like three weeks or so until that happens you know and it's cold you get snow coming you know and if you want to address something address what's you know really happening you know and the people that we're talking about you know don't watch it because that's what you're doing and that's not alright not by me you know and certain others so you know don't just lay this on the homeless this task force don't lay this on others and don't ignore it you know thank you yeah thank you Morgan I do want to just assure you that I've had multiple conversations with folks hanging out in that structure different sets of folks and trying to gather as much information as I can certainly about who's using it and how and their thoughts on it and honestly I'm gonna continue to do that but just in the interest of time one so one thought team is that either there's a some motion that somebody would want to make or we can put it off again for another meeting where potentially after the homelessness task force has had a chance to discuss this what is what is your pleasure before you do that I'd like to hear from the council on this point Jack and then Jay I'm gonna make a motion that we put this on the agenda for whatever the meeting is about 30 days out four weeks out whatever date that winds up being that we seek to obtain community input from a variety of people including people who live at Curtin Park or who use Curtin Park and with specific application to with this specific direction to the homelessness task force to try to gather input and make a decision about the disposition of the structure at that meeting second okay there's a motion and a second I saw Jay and then and then Stephen if you want to make a comment that's fine go ahead Jay I just wanted to mention that I made the same comment at our last meeting and around trying to get feedback from the homelessness tax task force about the impact that moving the structure would have I don't know that there was any traction on that but I don't know it feels to me like what a point where we could make a decision one way that if we need to push it off then then that's fine but it would be good to have a you know a deadline so we could if we do feel like we need public comment on this we have a deadline and and actually you know empower the task force to give us a recommendation one way or the other and get the feedback that we need so we can make a decision then I think that that's would be a more appropriate next step thanks okay so if I could I just want to let everyone know that their next meeting is November 18th so that their timeline is a little skewed right now because their normal meeting fell on Veterans Day and then so I just want to make sure that that is considered in the timeline thank you okay thank you for that I'm gonna go Dan and then Stephen if we're going down this road which I'll be honest I don't I don't support because I don't think this isn't a homeless shelter there may be a certain portion of the homeless population that utilizes this you know and I think that's a question that we can address but I I'd like to see any feedback that we get from the Homelessness Task Force to be you know looking if if they identify a need that this particular structure serves to know of alternative locations because why certainly I'm supportive of meeting that need what I what I am not supportive of is this shelter staying in this particular location for the reasons I've stayed to be for which is you know I don't think it's a good location for it so I'd like to you know as opposed to having the Homelessness Task Force come back and simply say yes there's a need that this shelter serves that's a function or part of the homelessness population that's fine but I don't think that that justifies keeping the shelter in this particular location without looking at alternatives to have this in a in another location if that means moving it down the path to a more open area where it can be set back a little bit or something else you know I'm happy to talk about this I just think that this particular location is a bad location for those if you wanted well one of those is if there was an alternative motion to move it this evening and I maybe one could know but that's that is up to you so anyway Lawrence I just agree with Dan's caveat which I don't think is captured in the motion and you know maybe Cameron as the person who staffs the task force could convey it or maybe we want to be more clear in the motion itself about you know because I think there's general my sense of the council is moving the part because of the location issues if it's serving a purpose then maybe there's an alternative that's better than the pump track so that's I think the question more so than moving it so I think we want to be clear to the homelessness task force that if if there are that we want recommendations if if this is serving a need that they think that the structure could be you know useful and there are other places that would be feasible to put it I guess that's what I would be hoping to get from from them so so if that's clear to to Cameron and and I guess that's that's my my read on the conversation we were having. Yeah we're gonna we're gonna keep we're gonna keep going here Jack how how are you feeling about that possibility? I think that's fine I think it's a little much and a little complicated to put in the motion but I do think you know Cameron's sitting here and she's hearing the entire conversation and she's able to understand the the gist of what's being said. Dan go ahead. Yeah well now also I mean I don't think it's necessarily not the homelessness task force to necessarily come up with alternatives although they certainly could just based on an understanding of the needs and and where but I think you know it's it's fair enough for this the I don't know Bill if if the city staff would you know have have alternative suggestions as well. Locations? Yeah or you know if I mean there's a lot of suppositions here if the homelessness task force says this meets this critical need this is what it serves and then you know they say you gotta have a roof structure like this otherwise you know the the sort of Steve Whitaker idea that you know there's a population that will suddenly have this need that will domino into some other whether it be the pavilion porch or or something else underneath the People's United Bank building that this is this is a clear need I think what what I'd like to see at least is you know okay well where's an alternative location that we could at least consider for this in terms of those those needs and and the city you know the either DPW or or parks department may have the suggestion along those lines and I don't think it needs to go into the motion but I I guess I wanted a sense from you if that if that was feasible we can have that conversation let's see what people think we haven't so I you know other than people thought the pump track was a good idea so we sort of settle on that but fair enough we certainly can look at other places so something that I could use some clarity on is the motion as it stands right now does that include approving or as you understand it Jack approving moving it while looking at these like potential other locations or not not okay my my proposal is we don't take any action to move it right now and we have more of the discussion with presumably would lead to some kind of decision at the next time we take it up okay I just needed to make sure I was clear on that little foggy for me okay other comments from council okay and oh Jay go ahead sorry it just it feels to me like we're like we're kind of talking about two different paths like acknowledging the need to support the the folks who are utilizing this structure and also the the separate path being like is that structure what is needed to support them and potentially putting in a different location so I guess that's what I'm trying to come to terms with you're like I'm fine to like I said our last meeting yes we should have a conversation because there is a certain population that has utilized this structure and to the best of its you know to the value that it has and we don't want to just abandon them and that's really important but at the same time are we talking about where this this particular structure should be where we talking about addressing the need of the people who are utilizing it as it stands now so this doesn't necessarily affect the you know the motion we can certainly have continually conversation and I'm fine with that but I think that if we're gonna have a conversation about supporting the population that uses that stretch along the river then let's whether it's with the task force with city staff whatever then let's then let's address that issue and it's not necessarily complete you know directly tied to the to this one particular structure so I'm just trying to I'm just trying to establish a path forward here and if we need community input if we need more engagement then that's great but it's it's not and it doesn't feel to me like an either or like this structure is what supports them it's more about that they need support and how the best support that that population so okay I'll leave it at that all right anything else from the council okay all right so there's been a motion and a second all in favor please say aye aye and opposed and so I think we've got two well I think we could do a roll roll call so I am just gonna go in the horseshoe order because that is the order that is in my head um so Donna hi um oh gosh it was next Conner um Jay opposed uh Dan hey Jack hi and Lauren hi okay so that passes and so the we're gonna ask the homelessness task force to take this up and have more community inputs um and any further discussion on this point anything I'll see you want to we want to say about that we're about this topic okay all right so we are and we'll take that up presumably after the 18th of November thank you awesome and Ken I see you just joined us did you want to say anything about this if not that's okay well I just heard about it I look forward to picking this up the task force I don't want to jump into something midstream thank you yep no problem okay um all right so we have one more item on our regular agenda which is discussing as a security around the time of the election and we're gonna be doing this in public session an open session so I'm going to turn this over to the chief and to Bill yeah thanks and this is really mostly the chief I do want to make a clarification I think there it's possible that people could have misinterpreted the agenda title is having to do with election security itself and that clearly is the purview of city clerk and I think it's well underhand well it's in good hands I mean this is really about security or issues that could result as a result of the election and what might happen in the community and just the tense times we're in so with that clarification I'm gonna turn this over to chief Pete and take it from there thank you sir good evening mayor honorable members of the city council captain Eric Nordenson is also on the call with us and we just wanted to just give you kind of the heads up as to the information everything that we've been doing to to prepare for for for scenarios as they unfold so the the first few things that we'd basically the topics we'd like to discuss our potential outcomes related concerns the steps we've taken so far of planning and the department's focus planned events or any known threats again and I say that I want to make sure that planned events aren't known threats they're just there's two separate pots and then contingency steps that are going to be applicable to the city so with our potential outcomes and related concerns there are concerns nationwide of reporters of voter intimidation at polling locations presence anybody whose arm anyone who wants to say that that they're there to maintain election security so that's something we've been in contact with John Odom about and that we've been working with the state's attorney's office as well as the secretary of state so that's something again that we've we have a special attention to will maintain our vigilance and and just continue on from there but we have no threats no no information that that suggests that we can expect something like that to occur in Montpelier the the potential wins in the city in the outcomes so there they're obviously gonna be four of them a Biden win a Trump win an unclear winner or contested outcome so what what my my consideration is or what my thoughts is is that if there is depending on I guess which which individual wins the election you may have a different type of folks who are going to come so if there may be folks that are going to be in support of of Biden if Biden wins and then for the most part you may have a group of people that are congregating in that there's no conflict there everyone's there pretty much for the same reason and the potential for for folks to get into arguments is gonna be lower but then they're always gonna be fringe elements on on either side of of a political dynamic so so our concern would be folks that may be disenfranchised that may come up and that may want to to bring conflict to anyone who may want to to gather in at the state house area so then then if you have an unclear winner contested outcome folks may want to demonstrate there are going to be allegations probably on either side of the spectrum depending on how this goes plays out a fraud and within the election process so again the biggest concerns that we have are going to be any outside groups that may want to provoke the folks who are going to be gathering the results of Vermont state and local elections are unlikely to directly trigger mass arrests or situations they cannot be the results of normal means through the secretary of state or normal court processes so again it's local that we're not necessarily concerned with it's just like the national level and and there's an agreement with a lot of folks within our spectrum that the longer there is an unclear winner the likelihood of an incident within the state would possibly increase and as I'm saying this I just want to say that we're not trying to present doomsday scenarios we always hope for the best we're hoping that everything's gonna we have you have no indication that anything bad or negative is gonna happen but it's our responsibility to make sure that we're planning as best as we possibly can for logistical concerns of the city as well as the safety of people who live here and those who might come here to to express their rights when looking at COVID so again when you have large gatherings that that brings up the increased danger of resonance and of having a super spreader event so that's something else that that we we're maintaining cognizance with and then potential media interest the consensus is if something happens as the elections push on that there's going to be gatherings or demonstrations in two primary areas Burlington and Montpelier and that's that's a general consensus across law enforcement as well as the legal aspects within the state's attorney's offices and everything so if the concerns again would be when you have large gatherings no matter how peaceful there may be elements that may want to take advantage of media coverage or that that type of attention to do anything they want to do that's something that again that we're there we're cognizant of and then we also do have the concerns as well as the logistical elements of if there is political individuals of the elected representatives that may want to come to any impromptu rallies or situations in the logistics then and safety aspects and security that that also brings as well so those are things that we're cognizant about and in the last thing to this specific topic would be just to acknowledge that we do have limited resources not just within the department but statewide good news is we're going to continue strong partnerships with the Capitol Police with the state police the Washington County Sheriff's Office Barry Berlin everyone so everyone's on board everyone's is going to be willing to help us when we can do this so to the next item of that the steps that the department has taken so far we've we just had this morning a meeting with Montpelier alive with the business community to give them the information that we're aware of any recommendations or advice and increasing safety and then just encouraging folks to notify us if they see anything that's suspicious or that that's concerning and in in response we're going to make sure we funnel all the information we possibly can so that we don't keep folks in a vacuum or second guessing to to the lifeline of our community our contact with peer agencies include again Capitol Police, BGS, Supreme Court Security, City Clerk's Office, Washington County Sheriff's Department, State Police, the U.S. Attorney's Office, the FBI, and the AOT and yeah that's pretty much to that in. Captain Nortonson so far is there anything that I'm missing right any input or comments you want to make? No you're doing fine so far? All right stumbling over myself I'm trying. It's 10 o'clock you're doing well. It gives me a cookie and passed me on the head and I appreciate that. So looking at our operations planning and our in the department's focus our focus is primarily on the preservation of life and safety for people property second people are going to be first in events of worst-case scenarios. Third we're going to look at post investigations of potential property crimes and then making sure that we preserve downtown city city property city hall the fire department the police department and city assets. What the department plans on doing is to maintain a reduced presence and that we will only respond the calls for disruption and again like like we've been handling demonstrations and large gatherings already. And again what we're talking about safety first again law enforcement if there's if something bad should happen if there should be fights or conflicts or anything our focus is going to be egressing injured civilians or first responders. And events are known threats so thus far we know of eight events that have been planned through the state for coming up. So as of today we're aware of a group protect the results and defend democracy in Montpelier. They have applied for pretty much to be on the State House lawn from November 4th through November 7th. The vigil to honor democracy event is going to be on October 30th at 5 30. They're going to have a rain day in the event that they have inclement weather for Sunday November 4th. There's a rally hosted by the rights and democracy of Vermont for November 4th at 4 o'clock. The rally hosted by the Vermont Public Interest Research Group or VPIRG for November 7th at noon and the Vermont right to life will be there in January 23rd 2021 at 10 a.m. So those are the those are the folks that we're aware that they want to gather the one express the rights and and we're going to do everything we can to make sure the logistics and their security any concerns just their safety is met. We don't know currently of any specific known threats to the city or to any elected officials. Again, there's a there's a trend that we're looking for that the Vermont Intelligence Center from the state police. They have three elements that that they're looking for. And one of that is this concerning trend that we have for elected officials. So so that that's part of the equation as to as to what law enforcement is considering doing within a safety operations plan. So contingency steps in that are going to be applicable to the city for again for worst case scenario. Two primary things are judicial declarations. That just pretty much gives police the the operative or the authority to make arrests if we're going to declare folks to disperse if we get unruly folks that are going to disperse normally the process is that we have to get deputy sheriff's office to make that announcement. But in this case, we've coordinated with the the state's attorney's office. So we would just be in contact with the state's attorney's office, tell them what we have on the ground. They would push up affidavits to the courts and then we would get the judges to give us that order to allow to allow to give that that order to disperse again, depending on what we see. And I think our department has been very good and in restraint in our department has very been very good at allowing folks to move forward. So we're not anticipating or any any bad things to happen. Then the second thing is the emergency declaration. So if there are things that like we're seeing playing out on Philadelphia, if those elements come, then then the state can or then then we can ask for state resources to come in. And again, this is something that we're we're hoping doesn't happen. We don't expect to happen. But it's something that we're we're we're planning to have in the event that the worst case scenario happened. So we just want to make sure that we're prepared as much as possible. And the last bit to is to pretty much to touch on will be for folks in the public is to know that our department wants to push out as much information is as we know it as the election time as the general election approaches. So we would just encourage the public to look and at the department and the city's Facebook and home pages to follow us on to follow the city on Twitter and that hashtag is at VT Montpelier. And then took for folks to also register at VT dash alert. That way, if as things start to progress, if we're starting is to see situations that give us concern, we push that information out to the public. But again, I do want to emphasize we're not we're not looking for a doom or gloom scenario. It's just we just want to to let everyone know that because there there have been people that have been voicing concerns is how we're preparing and you know, with the possibility of potential for any unrest. And we're just just taking steps to plan a prepare. Eric, you got anything else to add? It just one last thing we partnered with DPW. So in the event that people take to the streets, we should be able to quickly barricade off those streets that keep motor vehicles out of there. And hopefully just protect the downtown core. So it's a it's a big concern for us. But we've got it pretty well covered, we think. Super. Well, thank you so much for that update. That's really helpful. I know I've been getting questions about this as well. So it's really good to know how how we're preparing. And it sounds like you all are on top of it, which is great. Other thoughts from comments, questions from Council Connor. Chief, thanks very much. I think it really does give people a piece of mind to hear that you're sort of five steps ahead of us. And think of all these scenarios. You know, I think we often think like in Montpelier and Vermont, we're immune to this type of thing. But I thought it was pretty disturbing a couple months ago to see some of that Patriot Front graffiti around town, right? Because, okay, sure enough, it's graffiti. But, you know, this is a group that, you know, is designated by a hate organization by the, you know, ASL there. And, you know, I think they do a potential take action. So I just want to see if there was any follow up from that. Have you seen any presence with other groups like that in the community? Or do you think that was just maybe maybe a one time thing? I can definitely do some mastering to that. But I also like to invite Eric, if there's anything you want to say about that before I jump into that. Yeah, Connor, we're not seeing too much widespread, especially Patriot Front. We're not seeing too much of that present in town. We have seen that you can probably see the graffiti that's out and about. We have seen a large increase in that, which we're trying to deal with. Some is not very nice. So we're doing the best we can with that as well. And that's one of the biggest concerns is the national trend is it's not necessarily that it's communities that are causing unrest within their own municipalities. It's the concern of folks who are coming from the outside and taking advantage of the opportunity to do that. So that's why it's really important for us to make sure that we're sharing information with the Vic as well as getting information from them, which we are. But yeah, we haven't seen anything that suggests other than that there's like a massive presence that's having any plans for something like that. But it's something the department is definitely keeping us eye on. Very much. Great. Lauren. Yeah, thanks so much, Chief. And Eric really appreciate the update and all the work that's going into keeping everyone safe. Two quick questions. One, it sounds from the way you ran through it, like we don't anticipate, I think, you know, one thing people have watched with concern of how some federal law enforcement officials have acted. It sounds like we're not anticipating any federal presence. So I just want to confirm that. And then the other piece was speaking to the roads, at least for the Saturday, November 7th event, I think people are anticipating that could be pretty sizable and doesn't make any sense to proactively close off that stretch of street, just so that there isn't traffic and there aren't cars, you know, knowing we've seen vehicles used to try to harm people and other, you know, again, just planning for hoping to the best, trying to plan for the worst. But, you know, does it make any sense to look at that ahead of time with closing that down or do the kind of reactive approach that you described, which sounded like you could do it pretty quickly if we were seeing concerns, but just curious your thoughts on that. If you don't want to jump in real quick. Yes, please. Okay, Lauren, hopefully to put a little ease to you. I have barricades already set out throughout the city by the end of this week. So they're going to stay in place. And then the city has taken up, I guess, some possession of some large metal barricades that we're putting those on standby. So I should be able to quickly, or we should be able to quickly shut down roads in the event that we need to, then hopefully protect it with some a little stronger barricades. I think our biggest nightmare is always a car going through these crowds. And quite frankly, we don't necessarily have all the tools we need to prevent that. So those medical, those metal barricades will be the best we have for now. And they're supposed to be readily available for us, especially on that day. And then I guess to answer your federal, federal presence question that they're not on our docket here, obviously. I believe the, you know, the National Guard can be available. I can't, I can't call the National Guard. We do have have groups that we work with with the FBI, ATF, you know, if we're in a pinch and people are getting hurt and they're in town and they can help us, then absolutely, we're gonna, we're gonna use them to help us. But they're certainly not a priority or what you're seeing on TV to come and take over. And if I could to piggyback on what Eric has said that we are what we're monitoring levels of interest and folks who may want to come down around the November 7 timeframe. And the concern is not necessarily just like the group that's coming down. It's a concern. I mean, like for logistical purposes, it's anyone who may take the opportunity to say, Hey, there's already a large gathering going on, we're going to piggyback on that. And we're going to be there too. So but we have been in very good close contact is with Matt Romeo at the Capitol Police as well as with ALT. So as as we're looking at these things and seeing these things unfolding, that's when we're going to work with the state police work with the state to ensure safe travel on the highways as well as coming into the city with the what so with with those emergency declaration procedures, it's going to have to be the boss Bill is going to have to make that call to to get any of those resources down. If the National Guard has to come in, their rules of engagement are they've been given that issue from the judge advocate general and how they're going to to work through it. It's primary. It's not a law enforcement thing. It's just going to be just like a preservation of safety and life. And it's it's like, and anything on top of that, they defer to us. So our rules of engagement, the ways in which we do things is going to be part of that instant command is no, this is what we're doing. This is how we're pushing. It's not like an individual thing that you're coming to a federal building and you see federal troops and they're handling their own incident. The National Guard, if God forbid, something like that ever have to happen here, would just be augmenting the things and our priorities and the way we do things. Thanks so much. It's really good to know. Other thoughts, comments or questions? Dan? Sure. Just one question on I think the first point you were talking upon chief was, you know, is there any information about election day, whether groups have planned to make any type of, you know, either stand or or voting monitoring activities outside of City Hall or around the area? To our knowledge, no, we had a meeting again with the Secretary directly with the Secretary of State last week and something there. They're watching it really closely and as well as with the Vic and Rory, our County State's attorney is like way on the ball. So there are no concerns, nothing that we've heard thus far. But then again, some people don't project what their planning is. I think John's still on the call. So John may have something else to add to that. Specific physical threats. I have not heard anything, although, you know, just in general, we are told to expect the possibility of poll watchers. There's poll watchers and there's poll watchers. Anybody can come in and observe the process. But as far as actively going in and being prepared to challenge voters, there has been some obviously discussion about that about in the country. As part of his emergency authority, the Secretary of State has put a time limit for registration on that. Anyone who wants to be a formal poll worker needs to make their intention known by the end of the day on Friday to register. You know, if there's people inclined to get angry about this sort of thing that actually only could make it worse, although, you know, I'm not suggesting it's a bad plan. It is. You know, I should mention that at our level, and I haven't spoken with Chief Pete about this yet, but we do have an ongoing, we have an election emergency procedures plan for everything. It was made in consultation with Chief Fakos and Chief Gowan shortly after I got here. And we and I just, you know, go by it every year. It does. It's mainly on election procedures for emergencies are room for election staff. And, you know, we have 40 some volunteers coming in minus the Board of Civil Authority, but in case of flooding, in case we get a call, you know, opportunities. Again, this is done with Chief Fakos, but to bring in plain clothes officers to monitor. Sorry. It's all right. But I also have very broad authority under federal and state law. Well, I've very broad authority to manage the entire grounds. But I also have very generalized authority on voter intimidation. And I've let everybody know that I'm going to enforce that extremely broadly. And obviously, if there's a problem, I'll immediately reach out to Chief D. And in terms of belligerence at the polls, I should also mention there is going to be a mask rule to enter the building just as there is now. Volunteers at each entrances will be instructed to if someone refuses to put on a mask, and there will be provided that myself and another election official can actually bring them a ballot outside, let them vote, wait whether they vote, and bring that ballot back in. Again, all of this is, you know, could be a different ballgame if someone, you know, really wants to make a stink out of it. But before bringing in the police, per se, we would follow those kinds of procedures. Thank you. Mary, can I ask you a question? Um, yeah, sure. Go ahead, Steven. Yeah, what should the public be aware? I know that we have a no long guns, no discharge of long guns policy, but also no folks have, you know, had concealed weapons and I expected some of the population is going to want to carry long guns around and should the public be aware? Are those allowed to be loaded, et cetera? What's reportable? What needs to be reportable and what does it, you know? That's a good question. Okay, I can, I can start that one off and then I'll definitely defer to, uh, to, uh, to Eric, uh, to help, uh, finish that one off. But I think that, um, first and primarily, I think that if anyone from the public sees anything that they consider threatening or intimidating or just uncomfortable, is to contact us that way we can kind of, uh, take as much of the situation as best as we can, see the fluidity of the situation and then, and then apply a person that didn't apply our policies and as well as the state of law and addressing that. So, so my thing is that, you know, anytime anyone sees something that they consider threatening or anything else, it's just to, just to err on that side of caution to give us a call to let us know and give us that heads up. And Eric will probably can talk about the specifics of that, that question. I can go kind of. I mean, I, I'm just trying to clarify what we had that scare, the whole lockdown of the capital complex over, uh, you know, a snow shovel or something. So what I don't want is people calling because guns are allowed, just say so. But, you know, if, if somebody starts eating them, that's another story, you know? Under my under statute, as I am choosing to interpret it, I will consider, I've let folks know this, any showing of a weapon on City Hall grounds, I will consider it voter intimidation. And I will ask them to leave and contact the police immediately. And, you know, if somebody wants to go get a judge to tell me I can't do that, they're welcome to. But as far as I'm concerned, that's voter intimidation. So I will act under my authority to say you can't do it. Period. That's really helpful. Clarification. Thank you. And then clarify, if, if the captain or chief be clarified, in any demonstrations following the election, are people allowed to wander around Capitol Complex and around the city with long guns that's capped over their shoulder? Erik? Yeah, thanks, Stephen, for the question. We are an open carry state. I'd like to encourage people to open carry with some common sense. As we know, common sense isn't always there with a lot of people. So yes, it's allowed. If anybody is threatened or has intimidation or gets pointed at somebody, that changes the ballgame. And that involves some people's different perceptions. So it becomes a tricky issue with the with the right to bear arms. So. Okay. Thank you. Um, Morgan, I saw you've turned your video on here. Do you have something you want to add? Well, first, I want to thank Chief Pete and the sergeant for their report and the vigilance by the Mafia Police apartment on this and others involved. It's it's always important to, um, to stay aware of these things and the potential, uh, that might occur. That said, uh, if it's permissible, I was wondering if Chief Pete might entertain an unrelated question. Chief? It's entirely up to the mayor. Well, why don't you go ahead and ask your question, Morgan? So Chief Pete, not to embarrass you, but while you were speaking there in the background, a certain family member of yours was walking back and forth. And so it makes the question, what's the name me, a family chat? Oh, the cat's name is Pascal is named by by a daughter after she watched the tango movie. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Any other questions? Jack, go ahead. This is more a comment than a question. I think this has been a useful conversation to have. I think that it makes evidence that one of the things that having a highly professional police department gets us is the planning and preparedness that have been evident tonight. And I appreciate Chief Pete and Captain Nordenson for bringing this to to our attention. My hope in my expectation is that as ugly as some things have been in various places, my sincere hope and expectation is that we will not see anything like that in my failure. And certainly hope I'm right. Thank you, sir. We really appreciate in that and all this being said as we're making these preparations to these plans, we deal so fully with the intent of the fate and having faith of the people of our city. So we're very optimistic that things, excuse me, things will go well with us also. Great. Okay. Well, thank you again. Thanks for that update. And we're going to hope that things go well on the on the third and in the weeks after have another resident with their hand raised. Oh, okay. Thank you. Thank you for letting me know. I'm seeing Abernethy. Oh, all right. I was just wondering if the current state of emergency would affect the open carry situation to address that COVID related state of emergency like short answers. No, no. Thank you. Yeah, it's good question, though. Okay. All right. Well, thank you again. And I think that is the end of our regular business. So now we are on to council reports. And I'm sorry, it's so late, but at least it's not as late as last time. Okay, well, right, we're going to we're going to go around our normal order. If you all get tired of that normal order, please let me know. Anyway, Donna, go ahead. I'll be brief people vote and try to enjoy Halloween in a safest way possible. But do play with Halloween within your family. That's all. Thank you, Connor. They're there. Sorry, we cancel Halloween. Everybody will try not to cancel too many other holidays, but have fun. A couple things. I was wondering, maybe if we should get marijuana dispensaries on the agenda soon, I've had a couple constituents reach out, just curious what the process was. And if we needed like an actual ballot item to actually be eligible for dispensary coming up there. And I just don't know. So it might be good for us to get a sense of that because I don't know. We have folks in the community who would like to see it here for dispensary. You mean retail dispensaries, right? Yeah, not the because we have medical marijuana dispensary retail. So there'll be a small number that would be eligible for the retail. So yeah, the interest of that. So retail. Yep. So that'd be good. I don't allow the micro transit committee, which is moving along at full speed there. I'm on the public input subcommittee there. So we'll be doing a pretty robust discussion with the current users of, you know, GMT in the next few weeks here. I also thought it might be good to get GMT and at some point just to do a quick update on that as well. So that'd be good. But that's it for me. Thanks. Great. Jay? Yeah, just all echo Donna quickly to be safe for Halloween this year. And I hope everybody gets out to vote on just one other thing. So the council knows the school board officially stood up the school resource officer committee at their meeting this last week and are a week from a week ago from today. And so our first meeting is next Thursday. So I'll certainly I know we have another meeting ahead of that. But as as that committee work progresses, I'll be sure to make sure you all are updated with what's happening. So thanks. Great. Dan. Oh, Dan, you're muted. Just a quick brief note. I've, Jay and I have been working with some constituents who have been experiencing low frequency noise in their houses. And I guess I would put it out to anyone listening, you know, if you are experiencing any type of low frequency hum, that's something that would be almost sort of bone shaking or irritating. Certainly reach out to Jay and I and the city because, you know, we're trying to figure out where the source of this is coming from. It only seems to be affecting a very few households and it may or may not have anything to do with any city functions may have everything to do with geography. But it's certainly for those who are experiencing it seems to be a very serious problem. And so certainly if anybody out there is experiencing it, they should they should let let us know. Yeah, thank you. Jack. Two things to mention. One is that the Washington County Superior Court, there is a vacancy for the office of assistant judge and the Washington County Democratic Committee is going to be putting out another call for people who might be interested in having their names forwarded to the governor for appointment. And so, you know, it's election season. It's not going to happen right away. But if anyone watching thinks they might be interested in having their name considered, they should feel free to contact me and I can talk to them about what's involved. And the only other thing I want to mention is that we know that Union Elementary School is closed this week because of the coronavirus and from what I've observed from watching my my granddaughter participate in remote kindergarten at our house this week. I think the school has done a great job of getting people prepared and in managing this and hope it won't be too long. But praise the school department for what they've done. Yeah. Awesome. Thank you, Lauren. Yeah, just quickly. I was also going to thank our teachers trying to manage school for two young children at home this week. Makes me all the more appreciative of the wonderful work our teachers do. But just reminder to everyone, you know, this is a community spread issue. So wear your masks, keep your distance, stay home, do the things we know we need to do. And, you know, but also, you know, as a couple people have said, remember to vote again safely, but we still have lots of options of dropping your ballot off, I'm sure. John will get into that, but also I'm just so appreciative of all the people who are volunteering and even during the pandemic, the amazing volunteerism of folks to make sure we have successful election. So thanks to everyone who's stepping up. And the last thing I just wanted to mention for maybe a future agenda is an issue that I think I'd seen kind of come on and off the agenda was looking at the PFAS issue. So this was something we looked at, you know, in February and then we went into lockdown and had a really interesting conversation. And it's a tricky issue, but I do want to bring that back up at some point and figure out, I think there's some next steps or at least data we could be gathering to better understand the issue and what the city's options are. So just wanted to get that back on the on the list. Yeah, Lord, actually, that's somewhat on my shoulders. I was like, I'm glad to remind you about one of us remember, I'm actually supposed to talk to you about that at one of our weekly calls to get a sense of how we would fit that up. So great, yeah, because we don't really have any new information since we talked about it in February. So get a sense of what what we'd like to discuss some more information. Great, thanks. And that's it. Thanks. Okay. So I don't have tons of new information and highly encourage everyone to vote. Make sure that you have voted. And at this point, we don't need to be walking your ballot in or actually going to the two city hall on November 3rd. And polls are open seven to seven. And so besides that, it's been said before, but I'm going to say it again. We absolutely need to be vigilant on wearing our masks and and staying socially distanced. And that means when we're in cars with people, and that means when we're, you know, potentially, you know, hanging out indoors. So please just keep that in mind. And then the only other thing I want to raise is again, like in the in the Lauren spirit of like, like just bringing back other like old topics. I am just thinking about the conversation that we had some time ago about stormwater utilities. And and at one point, we were going to, there were a few folks that were interested in digging into that. Now, and of course, it may not be something that we implement this year, but nonetheless, having a discussion, I think could be still good. So I think that is it for me, John. Hey, so I know these are always late and lately. And every time we get to me, I'm like, I'll talk about the election another time. It's late. I guess it's kind of now or never. So let me give you some rundown. And I think some important stuff. The election, I don't even where to start. There's so much going on. This is a unique and uniquely challenging election. Things are actually going very, very well, thanks to an outpouring of volunteer help. We are making full use of the Secretary's Secretary of States extra authority that they've given to us to, you know, tally ballots early, such like that, it's going extremely well. I would say by the end of the weekend, we'll have about 4,000 votes already in. And this is of an election that based on historical trends, I wouldn't expect to go more than about 46 or 4700. So I'm anticipating fewer than 1,000 people on election day, which is not many at all. Of course, it's a lot if they all show up at once. That's always a lot. But we're not anticipating a lot. I'm going to have about 40 volunteers working on election day. It's an unusual setup. It's going to be a lot of plexiglass, a lot of, you know, directions in, directions out, nobody getting lots of, you know, dividers and signs enter, exit volunteers at both doors directing people. City Hall will largely be cordoned off, except for that entrance where you come in and go out. And that includes the restrooms in the front. So folks need to use the restrooms, they'll need to go around back. I think I talked to you about, you know, how I'm going to handle any on-site intimidation already. And we will be getting our emergency procedures planned fully staffed this time. I can't always do that. But we're definitely going to have it done this time. The drop box will continue to be available tomorrow as the last day, given how the closing of the building on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays, tomorrow is actually the last day the clerk's office will be open to the public before election day. So something to be aware of, but the drop box is always there. We are again foregoing Saturday early voting hours because of all this. As far as I, you all probably read some of the extra, as far as cyber stuff goes, some of the extra measures that I'm taking as part of a couple of pilot projects we're involved in, including storing our own data in a discrete off-site location in case, for some reason, the Secretary of State's data is compromised. We will have our separate, we will work into it. That data is being fingerprinted and the fingerprint stored into an impenetrable virtually. Blockchain, so that if there's any tampering whatsoever with our, you know, separately kept and maintained data, I will know it. And we can go to backups. There will be no slipping by that particular alarm system. I've also got a Microsoft Corporation Cyber Security professional specifically assigned to me through a University of Chicago pilot program. So if there is an immediate concern, I can go, I had that person right there before having to work through the Secretary of State's office or, you know, if our on-site IT is not in a position to deal with it. So I mean, those are really great things I'm really happy about. As far as are there threats, you know, I haven't heard anything specifically. I have no reason to believe there's going to, you know, a specific threat to Montpelier. Having said that, it is still a state capital as small as it is and always have to be vigilant of that. If someone wants to make a big splash, we may be a small target, but it'd be a way to make a real loud nationwide splash to upset things here. And, you know, I look forward to working with everybody in the building that I had working with. I was actually recently took part in a cyber reason roundtable exercise that really involved and pushed the idea of all the elements of, you know, the election process from the administrators to public safety, all basically working as a system. And it's an approach you're just starting to see more and more around the country. And it's a terrific holistic way to look at it. Now, a few weeks ago, almost as of several weeks ago, there was no specific noise. If anything, things were pretty quiet. But my information now coming from the election infrastructure support group, because it's public infrastructure now just went off the charts. I got my first red report, which I'm not allowed to share. But let's just say there are a lot of targets around the country, including hitting Vermont, I've gotten several and some of the other clerks have sort of not as crude as usual, attempts to make inroads into election administration offices, sort of fishing or pre fishing. And some of them are clever, and they are hitting this state. So we're being vigilant about that. I also understand very recently that there is reports, you know, from NSA and such that there is a significant infrastructure in place that that could potentially, you know, impact elections that could be weaponized. So everyone is extremely vigilant, like I said, no reason to believe that not just, you know, Montpelier, but the entire state of Vermont would for any reason be targeted, but you just don't want to take that for granted. So I think that gives you the sort of broad report going into next week. Thank you. Plot to chew on their bill. Oh, but before we go on, can you just say again, the hours that it'll be open? Is it seven to seven? It is. Okay. Just wanted to make sure. Okay. And Bill, go ahead. Thanks. I don't have anywhere near as much, but that was really fascinating. Thank you, John. So for us, we will, of course, City Hall will be open next Tuesday. We may have, so I am giving, because there can be so many people in the building normally, we're giving all our City Hall folks the option of working remotely that day, if they choose, if they feel uncomfortable with all the traffic here. So although City Hall will be open for voting, there may be not a lot of in-person access. So I know some people may want to come in and do double duty. Some of us will be here in person, but many people, I don't know who's going to choose, but they haven't told us yet, but just so you know. And then similarly, I know Cameron mentioned this during the COVID update, but as we watch the cases locally, we're at least thinking about, you know, should we go back to closing City Hall all the time and even this experiment we've had here at the City Council meeting, so we've had one person in two meetings attend, but it is a nice feature, but you know, should we think about closing that back down? So we haven't made any decisions yet, just thought I'd let you know that those are the kinds of things that are on our minds along with, of course, all the other work of the City Government. So that's all I have this week. Great. Okay. All right. Well, thank you, everyone, and hope you have a good rest of your evening. And so I'm going to declare this meeting adjourned 1037. Have a good night, everyone.