 103.9 FM, WZO Radio, Knoxville. Hi, my name's Ty, and welcome to 103.9 FM Radio. This is Digital Freethought Hour, or the Let's Trot Podcast. And we're gonna be talking about how buying a bidet for your toilet is the exact same thing as coming out as an atheist. What? That doesn't even make any sense. Trust me, it does. We broke it down in six steps. It's gonna be a fun one, guys. So let's just sit back, relax, and enjoy the chat. Welcome to Digital Freethought Radio Hour on WZO Radio 103.9 LP FM, right here in Knoxville, Tennessee. Today is October 6th, and if it's not where you're listening, then you're listening to a rebroadcast of the show and should not try to call in. I'm Dr. Five, and as usual, we have Wombat on the phone with us. Say hello, Wombat. I got two saxophones. It's the Wombat. Two saxophones. I hope you don't try to play them at the same time. We also have guests, Fanny Anzai and the Dred Pirate. Say hello, guys. Girls. Hi, guys. How are you? Ahoj there! Hey, hey. Okay, Digital Freethought Radio Hour is a call-in talk radio show about atheism, free thought, rational thought, humanism, and the sciences. And conversely, we also talk about religion, religious faiths, gods, holy books, and superstition. And if you get the feeling that you're the only non-believer in Knoxville, well, you're just not. There are several atheist-free thinking and rationalist groups here, right here in Knoxville, and we'll be telling you how you can connect with them during the mid-show break. Also, did you know that there's been an atheist call-in-talk radio, I'm sorry, TV show, broadcasting right here in Knoxville, and has been for nine years now, that? Did you know that, Wombat? Yeah, I know. And I'm really glad you brought it up because I didn't know you loved obscure Japanese comedy dramas, too. But it's really good. I'm sorry. So the basic premise is, there's a guy who's a detective, but he's also a massage therapist, and he uses pressure points on people's bodies to figure out who the murderer is. And it's funny, because he's not good with people. So he's like an introvert. He's like, I can't touch your body. It's like a monk situation. You'd really love this show. I think most people should watch it. Check it out. Yeah. Oh, I think they should watch it, but it's not the one you're talking about. This is a call-in-television radio show. Atheist call-in-show, TV show. And it's on W, like Comcast Channel 12 every Wednesday night. We'll give you more details after the mid-show break. And in spite of what Steve Martin would have you think, there are an awful lot of Atheist songs out there, and you'll be hearing them right here on this program and generally on the station, as they are in rotation. Today's topic is the stages of losing your faith and being coming in Atheists. Yeah. So. You want to start that off, Ty? So I had a quick idea. I had a quick idea. So this is not a tangent. I know you always try to keep me on track, but check this out. I bought a toilet bidet. No applause or anything like that? No one cares? Listen, I'm going to tell you something. You live your entire, thank you, thank you, thank you. You live your entire life, and I'm trying to make this radio appropriate, but you live your entire life basically sticking your hands in mud and wiping off the mud with dry paper towels, right? And we think that was clean. We lived our entire lives thinking, oh, well, this is just what my mom and dad does. This is what the people I love and the authority figures in my life all do the same thing. This must be clean until you realize, wait a second, how do they do it other places? Cause it can't be as clean as we thought, right? And you realize, no, it's not. You expose yourself to the truth. You're convinced and there's like this amazing moment where you're like, oh my gosh, I've been doing this wrong the whole life. I can't see it the other way anymore. And so I finally got one. And the awkward thing is, once I got it installed, I've had mine for about maybe three months now. I want to tell everyone about it. Three months, three months. Oh, wow. I want to tell everyone about it. But it's this awkward thing, you can't bring up at work. Certain friends don't want to talk about it all the time. I can't imagine why. It's an awkward thing to bring up with family members. And the thing is it's so frustrating cause you know you're making sense. I would love it. You know you're making sense and no one else believes you. You're just like, listen, look at what you're doing. It's like, well, I think that's unsanitary. It's like, what you're doing now is unsanitary. Toilet paper is unsanitary. Let's break this down. We just have time to talk about this. And you try your best not to start an argument with someone, but it's really hard not to. It's really hard to stay out of that environment. So do you bring this up in SES all the time? Man, I wish I could. I wish I could. You actually end up with this sort of superiority complex. I had, you go to this superiority complex and was like, I'm better than everyone else because I believe this thing. Or like, I have this bidet. They don't, they don't realize how amazing it is. It's frustrating to live in a world like this. And some people just won't change their mind. And I don't know how to deal with that. So what I'm thinking is, like the, after you go through that moment of frustration and you go through the superiority complex and you realize some people just won't change their mind no matter what you try to do or tell them, you just have to start learning how to navigate your life in a toilet paper dominated world. You know, it kind of feels like, you're kind of feel like you're in the twilight zone cause like you know something that other people either don't know or choose to go around even if they do know it or just won't change their mind either way. And, and you slowly transition from just abruptly telling people the facts versus just advocating in your comfort zones. Like if the conversation comes up, you'll, you'll be able to say, actually I found out this was a lot better and I actually have a bidet. And it's actually worked out pretty well for me. Or like if you, or you know, use your own skillsets to slowly advertise in the best way possible, how to like have good hygiene and stuff like that. And why it's important for everybody to have the best hygiene possible if we care about hygiene. And I noted that whole process, it's like a six step process is exactly how I came to become an atheist. And I was just like, wow, look at that. Isn't that interesting? So I wanted to talk about that. So it basically like the six steps for me for becoming an atheist versus the six steps for actually buying the bidet. And that first step was like the convinced shocking moment that you realize, oh my gosh, I don't have a good reason for believing in a God versus, oh my gosh, I don't have a good reason for using toilet paper. Right? Right. Well, a lot of people that I've read, you know, I've read a lot of a deconversion stories and I recommend that everybody who's deconverts from some religion to atheism write their story down so it's available for other people to get inspiration or just knowledge from. Yeah, even anonymously would work. Right. Dan Barker, he's one of the heads of the Freedom from Religion Foundation wrote a book and his first moment of realization was that he was a preacher in a very fundamentalist church and he would talk to his other preachers in the same church and everything for a long time. But then he was sent on a mission over to another church which was a much more liberal church with much more liberal ideas about belief. In other words, if they were away from a fundamentalist they were more live and let live type of thing. And he came back and he talked to his other preachers and of course they wanted to get along with the other church and they said, oh, just let them relieve what they want to, we're all believers in Christ. And that to him was, you mean we don't have to go to the very fundamentalist level of this just to go to heaven? You know, he was saying this to himself, not to the other preachers. But that was the first thing he came to his mind about something's wrong with this because our church says we have to believe this stuff. Their church doesn't, but our church accepts their church. Right. And everybody has some kind of little wakeup call, I guess, at the very beginning and I would analogize it to what you're talking about on the first step. Yeah, I was talking to someone that one of the first defenses that you'll run into when you have conversations with people about their faith is, well, they all just believe my God. Like you'll bring up, you know, 40 different versions of Christianity, things that aren't even Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism. But yeah, but we all just believe the same God. But there are Christians that don't even agree with that perspective. So what is the person who's asking these questions? There's like an unbiased mediator supposed to say. And what I found is it's good just to remind them that there are other people who are Christians who wouldn't agree with that. Are they wrong? And can we come up with a standard to figure out who's right and who's wrong? Because that's what I'm trying to figure out. Once you figure that out, then I'll be happy to listen to see what the argument is. Cause I want to know true things too, but it seems like there's disagreement even between Christians. And that's a notable thing to make note of. True. I think your point, I was something that I was actually thinking of. Sometimes what some people need is to realize that their God is not the only one true God that everybody believes. They need to know that there is a neighbor that believes in another God that is not the same as his. And they use the same method to say they are both true or the real one or the only one. Because they also are monotheist gods that would not accept the neighbor to really believe in the other God. Exactly. Yeah. What do you say about the monotheists who are like, I'm the one only God. Or the only, yeah. Versus polytheists who are like, whatever, visualization, yeah. Yeah. But I think it's very personal. And there is this personal trigger. I would say that for me, I never really liked all the doctrines and all these, oh, believing three gods, that's one person, that's all to be. And I'm not gonna teach you or explain how this thing works, but you just need to believe. Right. But for me to be free, to feel free, and say, no, no, I'm not that so wrong thinking this, was like to realize that there were other people that think like me. And most of all, I think it was when I broke down the creationism, circular reasoning of religious people saying like, everything that is here is created by someone. You know, when I went more like to science and I found other answers for this question, that is like, no, nobody needs to create the universe. There are things that have not been created. You know, like there are things that just became to exist is different. And then you learn how this was possible. You find, and then you read the Bible and see how their metaphoric history, that story is told. Because for me, it was like, yeah, I don't believe in Adam and Eve coming from God, molding people from mud, you know? But I was like, yeah, it comes from something. But when I found out like, no, there are scientific reasons and explanations for how everything came to exist. Yes. I broke me of that thing of like, I have to have a creation, a creator. Everything has to have a creator. Well, the thing about it is if you don't know, if we don't really know who or what created like the universe, I don't know is the best answer. Oh my gosh. It's the most logical answer. I love that. You don't go leaping to some supernatural being and particular supernatural beings like that. Right, absolutely. I don't know is the best answer when you don't know something. But the interesting enough is another thing that I think is common in human behavior. It's like, as more ignorant you are, more you assume things and more you say you know. You know, you see like the scientists and people that study a lot, they are always answering things like, I don't know, let's find out, you know? And other people that actually have no knowledge about anything, they're like, oh, let me tell you the truth. Let me show you, I know things. And it's sort of. We should kind of go around the table and ask what their first goat, oh my goodness moment was. Oh, that's fantastic. Yeah. From believers to atheists. Dred Pirate, what was your aha moment? Our harm moment. Geez, and I knew this, we're gonna come up. So I was trying to think of, you know, reflect. But I'm not sure that I'm, how about you? How about I hear a couple other people and then maybe we'll jog my memory. I can go first. I remember going to a philosophy class in undergrad. This was at a small school in Columbus, Georgia. And I thought I knew what morality was because I was a hardcore Christian back then. I didn't even watch the Powerpuff Girls. I was super, super serious about my face. And I was like, hey, I have the 10 commandments. I know what morality is. You just do these, you know, 10 things and you're a moral person. It turned out that's not the right answer. No, morality is not just a list of rules. It's a system for how to make, you know, rust, abide, good, conduct, behave. Obedience is not morality. Exactly. And when I realized that, like when that switch finally flipped for me, like after getting like the wrong answer in class so many different times, that I'm just like, well, what is morality? Let me read this book. Oh my gosh, this is what it is. Let me go right there with the Bible. Wait a second, the Bible doesn't say what this book says. Now I have a problem. Yeah. I like what the philosophy books telling me but I'm not getting that from the Bible. Oh no, what's going on here? And that's, that was the first switch for me, honestly. Yeah. Fanny, what about you? Well, I think it for me was the long process. I was just thinking here that I always, or before now, before this situation, I would say like, oh, I became an atheist when I came out of the closet. But I think that we are all atheists as soon as you refuse one of the doctrines or you do not believe one of the things do not make sense and you're not attached to that. Ooh, that's interesting. Believe anymore. Yeah. But you don't remember any particular instance of what you did. The first time was when I came to religious class and they told me about the Trinity. And I raised my hand and I was like, okay, I know a little bit of science and physics and this doesn't make sense because I just heard my physics professor saying two bodies cannot be in the same spot. So how one body can be, you know, become three and being in three different places and then being one at the same time, this makes like no sense. And I was actually trying to reason at that moment and they just told me like, you don't need to understand. You need to believe. Right. And I thought something straight that I went back home and told my mom that I didn't want to go to that class anymore. It was my first day and the first question, they tell me they're not gonna tell me. And so I cannot learn things if I don't understand them. That was my idea of learning things. You know, my parents taught me how to read and write before I went to school. I learned reading and writing when I was like two and a half, three years. So I went to school where I could write my name and my father taught me math before I actually had at school. So when the school came, I was like, this is so boring, I kind of know little things. And then I was really kind of a smart kid and I was just trying to understand things. I think all the kids are like that and different from other parents. My parents were not killing my curiosity. My spirit of what is this? Why, why, why? They were always answering, you know? Yeah, well, very cool. And I think that made me like that. So I was like probably seven, eight and then we were all going to the religious school, out of school, it was like a school in the afternoon. So you would just put kids to go through all the sacraments of the Catholic church, you know? And we were first class and they just killed my curiosity and I was like, okay, mama, I don't wanna go there. I can't learn if they will not explain to me. Good for you. You know, everything I get is curious. It makes me learn more because when they teach me, when I have the question, I absorb better and when I had, they just told me I will not have explanations that this, apparently this science is all based in faith. You cannot have the thing that I'm looking for. So I don't know if I feed them. At 12, I did something. So I kind of, she took me out of the school because also the professor complained to the director, to the principal. And the principal was kind of a friend of my mom, told her, like, if any is causing trouble, she's asking things and the other kids get here. You know, so I don't know if she feeds for the school. And so my mom decided to take me away from school and put me in like a private class. You were a little troublemaker. She's still a troublemaker. And asking questions, how dare you. Yeah, I'll go next real quick. It won't take me long. My first come to a moment was when I first met an atheist. I was 23 years old, never met one before it. I didn't even know that not believing was an option until I met her. That woke me up somewhat. Dred Pirate, you cogitated enough? Yeah, yeah. So I don't know if it certainly wasn't the first sort of inkling, I think my transition was just recognizing that people didn't, like a lot of people I talked to didn't have a very high standard of evidence or reflection about some of the things they believe. And as that sort of built up, I was a freemason for 20, 25 years. And attending these meetings with a bunch of privileged white men. With high IQs. It just became very obvious that we weren't there so much, everyone was there for a different reason. And we were all performing these rituals that stem from a civilization 3,500 years ago. And it was magical thinking, wishful thinking. And it came to a point where I just had to tell the group, I said, sorry, I can't come anymore. I'm not your brother, not in this sense anyway, right? So yeah, that was my big transition period. That's fascinating. Yeah. I can tell you, it feels weird. I think everyone brought up a really interesting point in that even when you're shocked, you're already, before, so like, let me just put this in perspective. Before I bought the bidet, I was already a bidet person, if that makes any sense. So like before I even adopted the atheist label when it was finally comfortable with it, I was already an atheist because I knew I didn't believe in God claim anymore. So like that shock that I had was like the moment where it's like, oh, geez, where do I fall now? It's like you're already out of the system. We can already draw you outside the bend diagram. You're already not a atheist anymore. Exactly. I can tell you, it feels weird when I finally got one though, you know, when I finally got that bidet because I wanted to tell everyone about it. But I couldn't find a good avenue to have these kinds of conversations with because again, I couldn't bring it up to my boss. I can't just be like, hey boss, let me tell you something about this toilet that I just got right now. Couldn't bring it up to friends. I felt weird because I was keeping it with myself that entire time. It felt awkward, my family, I didn't really want to get into specifics. And when I did, they didn't want to change their mind. They're like, well, you know, that's you. You should have got a button. I got a bidet. Yeah, like I really want to like just show everyone, like check it out, I'm right, you're wrong. Come on, get on the program. This is so, this makes so much sense. You know what would make a great button is bidet, mate. Oh, I like that. Gary, that's actually really good, I like that. I do like that. That's good, I really, and keep that in mind. Dred Pirate went to Dred Ozzie. But I mean, I think it's an interesting point and I think it's probably worth talking about. Just because we became an atheist didn't mean it was all flowers in sunshine immediately afterwards. Like what is that process of realizing that you have a perspective that's changed fundamentally your entire world view? And realizing that you can't bring that up with everybody. Like, was that awkward for you? Was it frustrating? Maybe we go around the table. I would say it was for me and I've had conversations with my family who now believe four different completely religions. I have a sister that's a Muslim, sister that's still a Christian, a mom that's a Jovo Witness. Wow. And I was lucky enough that they all split at the same time where I could just say, I'm not following anybody. It made my transition much more easier. But what do you guys think? Well, I'll start. I spent 30 years in the atheist closet. I didn't tell anybody. Wow. And then when I came out, I came out with a vengeance after 9-Eleven. After 9-Eleven and George Bush giving my tax dollars directly to churches and reading a book by Carl Sagan Cohen. Demon Haunted World. I came out and started the Atheist Society of Knoxville and we now have 975 members. We're getting close to that 1,000 mark. That's great. Yeah, we are. We're gonna have to celebrate that. Yeah, we are. But congratulations. Thanks. But it was 30 years without telling anybody it was. It was tough. It really was. But finally got a chance to come out. I guess I made it for a lost time. Help me out, Larry. Your wife was an atheist, the one that you were referring to before. Were you able to be open about it with her? Oh yeah, yeah, but she was the only person. Really, literally the only person, not like friend? Literally. Whoa. No, literally, the only person. She, but was she not an open atheist? Yeah. No, neither one of us. Neither one of us came. This was a long time ago. This was 30 years ago. Yeah, because it was 40 years ago. 50. Oh man. Yeah, 1972. Wow. Yeah, because you have a pilgrimage story twice, and I was not sure if she was open, and you were still in the closet. In my case, like I said, I started becoming an atheist, I think, or I never stopped being an atheist, because my parents never indoctrinated me enough to be a religious person. And when other people tried, it did not work. So I was always an atheist, but I came out of the closet only after I met my husband. And that was in 2012. We met in Montreal, in Canada, and then we went back to Brazil. And while there, because everybody's so religious, he kind of told me he was an atheist. And I was like, OK, I understand. And I talked about this, and I agree with a lot of the things we talked. And he's like, you know that you are an atheist too, you know? Oh, no, no. Fanny, I want to know more about this. Fanny, I want to know more about this. But how about we just do the mid-show? How about we do the mid-show break, and then we'll come right back to this? The realization that I'm an atheist too? That makes no sense. We'll come right back. This is 103.9 FM radio low power all throughout Knoxville. We'll be back right after this short break. Say no bit. You're listening to the Digital Freethought Radio Hour on WOSO 103.9 LP FM in Knoxville, Tennessee. Feel free to join in on a conversation at 865-333-5937. That's 865-333-5937. And now, back to the show. Digital Freethought Radio Hour. Simply the best. Welcome back. I'm Dr. Five, and this is the Digital Freethought Radio Hour on WOSO Radio 103.9 LP FM, right here in Knoxville, Tennessee. Today is October 6th. And with us on the show today, we have the Wombat. Woo-hoo! Hello, Wombat. And we have Fanny and the Dread Pirates. Hello. Hi. And let's talk about the Freethought groups that you can join here in Knoxville if you're interested in versus the Atheist Society of Knoxville, founded in 2002, or our 17th year. We have almost 1,000 members now. 975. Oh, we're almost there. We are almost 1,000. Oh, man. And you can find us and other links to our TV show, our radio show, and other groups here in Knoxville at KnoxvilleAtheist.org. And if you can't remember that, just go to Google and type in Knoxville Atheist, and you'll find all about us. And with that, I'm going to end the break and go back to our conversation. Sounds great. Sounds great. Sounds great. We left off just when Fanny came to a really amazing realization with her husband. I won't step on anyone's toes, but I'd say your husband was an atheist. And then he's like, yeah, but don't you know you're an atheist, too? And you're like, what? Or gig? Because it's Portuguese. All right, go for it. Yeah, pretty much. Yeah, it was something like that. So like I told you guys, I never really accepted any doctrine. I passed through many beliefs. I went to Spiritist Church. I went to reading books. Called myself, in the end, at this time in 2012, when we were together already, and in 2013, when we were already in Brazil, I would say I would title myself a Spiritist. And I would say I would not follow any religion, because no gods of any religion were good gods for me enough to believe them. Because I used to say, maybe one day I will open my own religion and my own church, because for me, God is supposed to be all good. For some reason, he can't do everything, so he doesn't fit into the scriptures. You sound like every non-denominational Christian, basically. Yeah, really. So and also because he was so punitive, for me it was not that he could not be that good if you're going to burn you in hell forever. So it's like, no, my God will not be a God bad like that. Just like this. So I went through many beliefs in churches and rituals, followed a lot of things, read a bunch of books. And at this moment in Brazil, my husband's like, oh, I need to tell you that I'm an atheist. Because he was an atheist. I always saw him reading books, atheist books, and watching things. But he's already married, by the way. Oh, it's a surprise. No, no. We married in 2014. OK, so we met into 12 and 13. We came to Brazil. He came to visit my family. He already wanted to get married. And we wanted to get married because of visa. We wanted to be kind of together, but not have to deal with the visa going back and forth every six months. So yeah, we're going to get married. And so let's put our families together and talk about this. And he thought it was important to tell me that he was an atheist. Because I thought he was just interested. He would watch and listen to so many things. Like, oh, he's just interested in the subject. So he's reading and watching things. And I'm finding that I used to like to watch things with him, too. And he's talking to me more serious about that one day. He's like, we agree about a lot of things. And I'm like, yeah. And then he comes to tell me all the things he has watched when I'm in my shift, work. And he's like, yeah, I agree. I agree. He's like, Fanny, you know you were an atheist. And I was like, what? No, no, I don't accept the title. And it's when he told me that as soon as you refuse a doctrine or one of the things. And then I have told him all my history since my six years, though, when I found first time in a class being taught about religion. And he's like, at that moment, you were already an atheist. And in fact, you were born an atheist because you were born. I like your husband. You don't believe in anything, you know? They tried to indoctrinate you. You did not go through. You refused, but you never left. Then indoctrinating you in any religion. You tried to feed because socially. And I understood that. And I knew that was the pressure. Because when I did not fit in the Catholic Church, I went to Spiritism because it was the next thing that everybody else believed. You know, oh, yeah, people that do not believe don't go to church. There is these other people that actually do church. People say they are bad because they believe spirits and ghosts. And they are kind of like, Fanny. We should then. Fanny, yeah, it's a lateral shift. So I kind of went that way. And my mom, I will try to be short about it. My mom actually freaked out and she fought me and she did not talk to me about for a month when she learned that I was going to Spiritist Church. Fanny, I wish your husband would have a chance to be able to sit down and talk to Neil deGrasse Tyson and explain that to him, too. Because you know he's a wishy-washy kind of guy with a spark to the atheist label. I actually commented on the video on YouTube after I found, because I told you I was so curious and I keep challenging my beliefs. So I went after this video. And I found right away, if you type Neil deGrasse Tyson and atheists, it's the first video that shows up. And when I watched it, I was so frustrated that I actually was defending him and that nobody brought me the video to confront me with the truth. That I went there and I commented all over the video. And then I said, I don't know. I don't know. But on the flip side, light at the end of the tunnel, we do have Bill Nye the Science Guy who will openly argue or debate with any Christian on the face of the planet. And I'm like, you've always been the one in my heart. Dred Pirate, what would you say is your experience with regard to now that you know you're an atheist, how do you deal with that? Were you still in touch with any of your Mason friends? Yeah, well, this is a very small community. I live in, we've only got about 8,000 people here. And I've been a big part of the community for the 15 years I've lived here. So yeah, there's no getting away from those connections, even if I was inclined to want to. You know, the fact that some of these people are Mason's is I don't hold it against them. They're still good people. And when the opportunities arise, for instance, my last SE video that I posted there with Ray LaFleur, he's a Mason who I actually introduced into Masonry. And you know, we still connect as good friends and have great conversations. And you know, I just, you know, whenever the occasion arises to have a discussion, especially around Masonry with some of these folks, I just hold my SE skills as it were. Hey, while we're talking about your SE, would you mind plugging your channel and what you're about? Cause it's been a while since you've been on the show and you've actually developed your channel way, way more since the last time we spoke. Well, yeah, thanks, Ty. And certainly it's been due to a lot of help from yourself, which I certainly very much appreciate. And of course the SE community, the street of cosmology community in general. Yeah, so, so I hold these things called chats over coffee. Very good, Ty. Which is at a local bistro. And I do them every Monday at 4.30 in the afternoon. And I post through, like I say, because it's a small community, so I can post them to the Downtown Business Association on WhatsApp, GrabForks, you know, so I get the message out locally. And I've had some really great responses and people who are interested, but maybe sitting on the fence a little bit because they are a little apprehensive about examining themselves or having those deeper conversations. So it's been interesting to see the resistance in some people who I know would be great interlocutors. So one thing I'm actually looking to do is start up a thing called skeptics in the pub. Nice. It's more of a group session. Yeah, yeah. So I know the Center for Skeptical Inquiry out of Kelowna here, they've got one of those. So yeah, I think it's an opportunity maybe to get more people interested in SE through a group session where it's not as one-on-one, not, you know, they don't have to risk being on point. So yeah, so that's my story. Pretty cool. Pretty cool. And how can we get access to your channel? Would you say like, what's a good place for me? Yeah, so MinePirates on YouTube is where I post my videos. So by all means have a look there and subscribe. Please subscribe. Yeah, I can tell you, I need, while I need, I think it's a hundred subscribers or something in order to do some customizing. So I think I'm at 39. So please subscribe. We're gonna get you. We're gonna get you. I'll make some videos and we'll also plug you too. I think it's 1,000 for monetize, monetize. So monetization, yeah, great. Yeah, that is 1,000. I'm still far from here too. Just get me to a hundred first and then I'll worry about that later. So now I'm gonna go check and subscribe definitely. And personally what I'd recommend, I'm actually on Facebook to help you. I would get monetization and go straight for Patreon. That way you won't have to sell out your channel to ads or like a whole bunch of other guidelines. Cause nothing sucks more than like a great conversation about why someone doesn't believe in God and then a big pop-up for like a Baptist church shows up in someone's house or you're like, hey, have you got this, have them yet? God's the one true way. That's right. Here you're talking about the days and someone starts selling toilet paper. Yeah, exactly. Hey, that's a great transition. Speaking of which, I wanna talk about the last stage of becoming the savior is when you're learning to navigate life in a toilet paper world. I have notes here saying learning how to navigate life in the TP world. It's like I said, living in a twilight zone where the episode is everyone believes in this fairytale that you don't or kind of like an emperor's new clothes that fairytale where you're the only kid that knows that the emperor is actually naked but everyone's convinced that he's wearing clothes and you're just like, well, I tried convincing people it wasn't worth it. I don't really have a good way of doing it yet. I'm just gonna, I realize even if I did have a good method that I won't be able to change the world overnight this seems to just be my reality now. And let me tell you something. I got something to take off my chest. Since I was a child, my mom has always told me, Tyrone, you don't know what it's like in the real world yet. I'm like, okay, fine, I'll go to school and I'll try my best. Then I'm in school and she's like, Tyrone, you're not in the real world yet. I'm like, okay, fine, I'll get a job in government. It's like, Tyrone, you're in government. You're not in the real world yet. Now I'm working for profit in industry and like I'm handing my own, I'm paying on my bills, all this stuff. And I realized every, even since I left college, like basically everyone's not living in the real world. I'm the only one. Except for my other atheist friends that I got. But like, man, what is it a twist to realize that the real world that she's referring to is one where everyone's deluded and believing that a God exists. Yeah, I saw a thing on the internet that was kind of cute. It says, it's like being the only sober person in the car, but they won't let you drive. Oh, that's awesome. That's really good. That's a really good one. So how about we do a final round table and like how have you learned to compensate or survive or just exist as someone who maybe has the exact same situation as Larry put, the sober person in a car full of drunks and you know, you don't have your hand on the wheel. How do you go about that? I'm jumping out of the car. I'm not running in the car. I'll go buy food, you know, but yeah, definitely. Now I think the point is like, we have seven billion of people in this planet and we have so many people that are in the enlightenment already and other people walking to it. So we don't need to actually be attached to family, friends, or just because they are old friends or because they are family, if they do not want to deal with you because of your belief, you know? I think I bring this like very personal because I have my brother that doesn't talk to me because he is very religious and I'm not. And when I see this, it only proves to me that I'm right because what I see is like he is so religious. He says he's like, his God is that good and he is that good, but he gives more value to a imaginary being than to a real person that have lived most of his life with him, you know, that I'm real and that we have this, not just the lace, but not just the family relationship, but we had some, a lot of things together when he was not a religious person, you know? And then he just found God, whatever, you know, it is or everywhere or it doesn't make sense, you know? So when you say you're jumping out of the car and walking, what does that mean as far as like in real world terms? What does that mean? What are you doing? I'm saying that I will definitely just let go of people that will let go of me for their beliefs, you know? It's not that I'm refusing my relationship with him. It's him making God more important than his sister, you know? Right, I understand. And we cannot just like, oh, I'm sorry or whatever, because that is not enough. It's not what they want. They want us to convert. And it's not the same thing that I'm trying to do with him. Don't understand. Exactly right, yeah. Because a lot of people think it atheists. For example, what Neil deGrasse Tyson says, he's saying like, oh, I refuse to be an atheist because atheists behave like this. And that's not true. It's not true. It's really bad. Or open to believing in God. Can I repeat what he says? Can I just repeat what he said? He says, I don't like being called an atheist and it's really gross over our generalizations because all they do is grossly over generalize and argue with people. And I'm like, that's what you're doing though. You're basically over grossly generalizing entire group of people, including people who've never converted to a theist perspective. Being there with him. And I mean, when I hear something like that, one, it doesn't surprise me because look, there's another aspect to play here. Like old black man doesn't like atheists. That doesn't surprise me. But when it's like Neil deGrasse Tyson, the guy who like did Carl Sagan show, like made another season of it, you think like he at least were exposed to good atheists like his friend, Bill Nye the Science Guy. So it's just bizarre. I think it's dishonest his position of refusing the atheism term just because he refused to be part of a movement because the word has a meaning. And when he actually explains his position about God, it's exactly what atheism means. So he cannot just say like, oh, I'm not an atheist, but atheism means this. Right. You know, like it's so hypocritical. But it seems like he's denying the meaning of the word because he refuses to follow a movement. When there is not actually an atheist movement or an atheist church because you cannot hurt cats. Right. So they are not working together. Sam Harris is the same way. Oh, I didn't know that. Sam Harris is not an atheist? Yeah. Well, he refuses the title. He doesn't like to use it. He says too much baggage. But I've always felt that it's very honest appellation. You know, it's one that we need to redeem. Yeah. We should certainly not stop using it. I mean, we should certainly should not stop using it simply because it affects the very, or offends the very people who made it a curse word in the first place. Yeah, especially when it, when there's money from a general public supporting whatever endeavors that you're having, you will tend to try to do whatever assuages the most people. Like you tend to just be persuaded by that money. And I find like Jordan B. Peterson, this thing that's going off Neil DeGrasse Tyson and Sam Harris is more of like a representation of, hey, there's so much money and not me being labeled an atheist, then I'm just gonna keep coasting. Right. And I'm like, dude, show some character. Like Matt Dill, how he did do a talk with Neil DeGrasse Tyson where at the end Matt was like, he was convinced he was an atheist, but he had a conversation he was convinced that he was. So like he is, he's the type where it's like, you know, it doesn't take much reasoning for him to realize, yeah, I get that. I just don't like being, you know, associate with it as an identity group. And I get that. Like we have street epistemologists who won't say, hey, I'm part of the atheist group, but they will say like, I'm an atheist, but like I'm not part of like an identity group. It's just a function of me not believing in God. And I get that. Like, I'm not signed up. I don't have membership to do so in groups. I agree. I'm very not communistic in that way. Like I don't like to be like communistic in the idea of like, oh, yeah, I'm part of a group. But I think it is important to have a community and to kind of try to raise together is kind of like a spirit of more secular morality. Right. It's important, you know. And I think one of the good speaker for atheism as an atheist, proud atheist, for example, that we're talking about some important names and some Harrys and Neil deGrasse Tyson are people that people claim, atheists claim their atheism and they refuse, but there are good atheists to be, like you mentioned, Bill Nye. And I would say like David Silverman. Oh, OK. Yeah, David Silverman, that is like, he has like amazing speeches of atheists and how atheism is awesome, you know. And I think he also needs some help to come back out of the, I don't know if you guys know about what happened to him. He was president of American Atheists and then he lost his job because of false rape accusation. That is, OK, another super trending talk online because of me too versus false accusations. So I think, yeah, it's nice to talk about him and people go check his videos. He has amazing atheist speeches. Really, really nice. One thing that very prompt atheists. Yeah. One thing gets me about people who don't will tell you, I don't believe in God, but I'm not an atheist. Is that they're like standing to the side pointing at atheists saying, I'm not with them. Yeah. And it kind of, you know, that's the very definition of the word. Yeah. And he said, I went and used that word. Yes. That's the whole reason I started the Atheist Society in the first place. I was a member of the Rationalist of East Tennessee and they didn't want to use the A word. Right. They said, well, some of us aren't atheists, even though all of them pretty much didn't believe in God. And they didn't want to use the word. And I'm so glad you use the word because when I knew I was an atheist and I moved to Knoxville, the first thing I did on Meetup was look up atheists because I'm like, there has to be some of the group of people that are like this group that I'm in. And I saw Rationalist of East Tennessee, but I had no idea what they were. And I'm like, there's got to be atheists here somewhere. And I found your group. I'm like, are you still around? And I sent you an email, five years later or however long we've known each other now, it's changed my life. It's true. I've been doing talks now. I've been going all over the place. It's important to let people know what you are, honestly, straight out. And I really appreciate the fact that you did that. Thank you. Yeah. Director. I think one of the most important things of us is standing proud atheists with morals, showing as an example of successful good atheists, is to bring more this proud spirit to the world instead of like this negative feeling of these people put up like, oh, atheists are bad people, or atheists are people that are fighting religious people. No, no, we are opening to reasonable discussions, to logic and reasonable thinking. We communicate. We are charitable. And we're not trying to convince anybody of anything. We're just challenging your own methods. So if you refuse, and also one thing that is very important, I have read this book of Peter Rogozian, impossible conversations is not harassing people that are not willing to have a conversation with you. It's people that are actually open to have a conversation and are challenging their own beliefs. Because if you really want to believe something, it's true. At least once, you're going to have to challenge your belief. Right, right. Exactly, yeah, yeah. And it's healthy. Dredd Pirate, what do you think? I agree. I have, I have, I have, um, uh, Rogozian's latest book on my table. I've not yet had the chance to, uh, dive into it, but I am so looking forward to it. Yeah, it's amazing. I'm reading for the third time. So we're getting close to the last couple of minutes of the show. How about we do a round table final thoughts? I would say, hey, um, I think we learned some cool things that like apparently buying a bidet very similar to being an atheist. Now here's the challenge that I'm, I'm going to challenge even the people in this conversation. Get a bidet. Here's the thing. It's a little technical, but like you go on Amazon.com, you search bidet, you'll find adapters for the toilet that you already have. They have ones that will fit your toilet guaranteed and they're only $14, right? And you look at the videos, you just look at some of the videos and you'd be like, wow, the installation is not hard at all. I did mine in like about five minutes or so. And the water it clean, it's the same water that you shower with. And then the water that goes to the tank is a completely different source. Like you get to the water before it even touches your toilet. It's amazing. So do you, so the bidet actually fits the toilet? The bidet fits on top of the toilet seat, on the back of the toilet seat, and there's many different kinds of styles. You can have one that are like a juicer seats, ones that just sit in from the side, ones that shoot out hot water and cold water, some that have nozzles that rotate, the self-cleaning ones, it's amazing. It's amazing the technology that's available to you for about 20 bucks. And you've opened me, you've opened me to the bidet universe. The amount of money I have saved on not buying toilet paper in these last three months is pretty, it paid for itself basically within the first month, I would say that. Wow, you use a lot of toilet paper. Well, I mean, like the efficiency of it is just so much better than wiping. But you must have been a water, not a folder. No, let me tell you something else. I don't have times where I need to use the bathroom at work and I'll be like, I don't want to use the bathroom at work. I have like a four-minute commute. I'll just wait till it's lunch break and just go home and use the bathroom. Or until I get home. Cause it's just so much more of an efficient process than wiping out smudgy stuff. And I know it's radio, but like it's not clean. It's not clean, just try it out. I hate living in a world where I'm the only one that makes sense. All right, Fanny, what's your closing thoughts for the show? Fanny, you still there? Sorry, sorry. No, you're all right. What's your closing thoughts for the show? I have a noise here. I'll have to mute. Can you put someone else? Sure, Dred Pirate. Yeah, well, as you know, or may know, or may remember, I am a passive area. So I do try to connect with my community on that level as sort of a belief community. So people that are interested in examining their beliefs, but are really attached to the idea of community such that religion provide. There's another option and we're it. I had friends that went scoff at the idea of pacifarianism, they were like, and can you believe there are people that believe that there's like a spaghetti God? And I was like, yeah, is that any more silly than believing in talking to snakes that give dietary advice? Precisely, precisely. And they were like, whoops. And I was like, oh, did I just play my A-card? I think you did. Well, catch out of the bag with these three dudes. At least I'll work on the slower introduction with everybody else. But yeah, yeah. So all the power to you. Larry, how about since Fanny's out, why don't you take an extended? Sure, I'd like to plug a few sites. Like if you're recovering from religion, there's always go to recoveringfromreligion.org. They have a lot of resources for people who are seriously questioning or having some issues with fear of hell type of thing. And they've got a lot of resources on that site for you, recoveringfromreligion.org. If you'd like to read a lot of other people's deconversion stories, you can go to positiveatheism.org. It's been a very good resource for me when I was researching that area. A lot of stories on there. And of course, for a lot of regular resources for atheism, go to my site, digitalfreethought.com. There's a lot of questioning documents on there, a lot of articles, and all of the podcasts that we've been doing are available from digitalfreethought.com. Just go there and click on it and listen to any of the 150 episodes we have on there. Nice, take us out. I'll get in black. Oh, Fanny's here. Don't take us out just yet. Fanny, close your eyes. Real quick. Can I? Yeah, go for it, go for it. Okay, well, I was going to just pull back one thought from all those arguments and triggering thoughts for becoming an atheist. And I was thinking about the creationist idea and was when I was like, do you really accept evolution? And I was like, yes, I do. Like I do understand how evolution works and accept that we came from evolution. And it's like, so add an if doesn't make sense, okay? Does add an if did not even need to exist. And therefore no need for Jesus to die in the cross. And then everything breaks down. And I have actually sent this message to a friend of mine and when she received that, she's like, oh, I will need to go. I'll need to go because I'll have to think about this right now if I could just block my entire belief down. And she actually have talked to me back and said, okay, well, getting freer from belief. And I think one of the things that I have read from the book, Impossible Conversations is like, one thing before you walk away is always leave your intentions behind. And the intention of the atheist opening all these discussions is for people to be freer and be happier because we know how all those beliefs make people have prejudice, have problems in relationships, have problems of accepting their own, themselves sometimes. And I think that is the message of us atheists of like, are you just annoying people that want to talk against all the beliefs? And it's like, no, no, we want people to be freer and be free from all those beliefs. Right, I can agree more. I love it. And that's the end of our show. We'll see you next Wednesday, I guess at seven o'clock. It is not the end yet. You have to say something. You have to say something. I was going to. Okay, okay. 160 episodes, you can't forget. Yeah. Everybody is going to somebody else's hell. The time to worry about it is when they prove that hells and heavens and souls are real. Until then, don't sweat it. We'll see you. I'm going to say that. Talk to you later. Say bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Digital free thought. Thank you for having me. WZOLP 103.9 FM Knoxville.