 Can you hear me now? Yes. Great. Hello, everybody, and welcome. My name is Lizzie Eichorn. I work for the Resource Conservation District of Santa Cruz County. I serve in an administrative assistance capacity for FireSafe Santa Cruz County, and I'm also a board member. Today's event is co-hosted by FireSafe Santa Cruz County and the RCD. And it is funded through funding from the California FireSafe Council. Tonight's event is being televised on community TV, so later we'll have a question and answer session after our presenter presents, and at which time you can come to the podium and ask a question. If you're uncomfortable asking a question in front of the community at large, please get a postcard from one of our volunteers in the back and they will read your question for you. Without further ado, I'd like to hand it over to Rosemary Anderson. She's the Emergency Services Manager at the County of Santa Cruz, and she'll give a presentation, a brief presentation to go over FireSafe Santa Cruz County, what the organization does, and then we'll introduce our speaker tonight. Thank you. Thank you all for coming. I just for safety because that's what I do as the Emergency Services Manager. The exits, there is an internal stairwell directly across from the board chambers that you can go down that will take you outside. You're never locked in, only really locked out, and then there's exterior stairwells as well, and the restrooms are around the corner, but really for safety, and then we would congregate outside in the front of the building in the parking lot to make sure everybody was accounted for, okay? So, FireSafe Santa Cruz County was formed in September of 2016 at the bequest of the County Board of Supervisors. We've had many Santa Cruz, many FireSafe Councils and Santa Cruz, but never one entity to serve the entire County. So this was a way of forming the FireSafe Councils as 1501C3 that then they would be able to fundraise for themselves, make sure that we had a little bit more equitable distribution for the services that they provide. The organization's mission is to educate and mobilize the people of Santa Cruz County to protect their homes, communities, and the environment from wildfire. The website, www.FiresafeCountyFireSantaCruise.org offers a centralized collection of resources available to Santa Cruz County residents who wanna learn more about reducing fire risks where they live and work. There's a lot of great informational brochures that you saw out on the table that you're welcome to take as well as home inventories and some other things that you can do for personal planning. You can find a variety of resources on the website that include information to help residents understand and implement preparedness planning such as how to create defensible space, how to take steps to make your homes better able to resist and encroaching fire just to name a few. Services that FireSafe Santa Cruz County currently offer include periodic free chipping programs to help residents reduce fuel loads around their home and in their neighborhoods by disposing of cut and stacked combustible materials. This is a really important program and there's information also on the table and on the website of how you sign up for that service. Facilitation of educational events to help Santa Cruz County residents prepare for fire, reduce fire risks in their communities. Monthly articles geared towards newspaper, radio, television and social media to educate people on actions they can take to protect their homes, communities and the environment from wildfires. Our plan programs include a campaign to help residents harden their homes and to make them easier to defend in the face of wildfires that's coming in the fall of this year. Assistance with the FireWise program to help neighborhoods become better prepared. The FireWise USA program is a grassroots community effort that's coordinated with local fire officials that is neighborhood specific and resident organized to develop specific plans to improve fire to prevent the damage of defensible space and safety. And we're anticipating this launch in 2020, but there is information and there are county residents that have organized their neighborhoods that is available to you before then. There are links to the FireWise program from the FireSafe Council website if you want to read more about it or as I said, get started now. As part of our educational mission, the FireSafe Council is co-hosting this outreach event with the Resource Conservation District of Santa Cruz County. Our speaker today is Peter Mesa, an 18 year veteran from the California Department of Insurance. He will be presenting on homeowners insurance basics, shopping for insurance, what's covered with limits and the limits and what to do after a loss as well as insurability in high-risk areas which of course we're all familiar with in Santa Cruz County. Mr. Mesa is an Associate Compliance Officer with the State of California Department of Insurance. He has handled customer complaints, so he can handle anything against insurance companies as a result of wildfire losses. He has worked in FEMA centers following major California fires, has served as a Spanish spokesperson for the California Department of Insurance and has worked closely with the last three California State Insurance Commissioners and participates in many forums throughout the state regarding all aspects of insurance. Please welcome me in joining and welcoming Mr. Peter Mesa. I wanna appreciate very much the Santa Cruz Safety Council, Fire Council, everything that they've done to make this possible, the invitation and I'm gonna tell you everything has been just first class in your communication and I'm very grateful for that. And actually on the behalf of the new Insurance Commissioner who's only been on the job for about, I think it's been a little over 150 days, I want to thank everyone for coming today and he sends his regards. There are a lot of things that folks maybe do not know about the department, so I'll just briefly mention a few things and I'm just gonna go through the PowerPoint a bit and we're gonna take a moment at one point and we're gonna ask Lizzie to come back up and then we're gonna open up for questions. I know that sometimes folks, you start getting, you start having questions in the middle of our discussion, but if you'll do me a favor, write that down or make a mental note of that and then when Lizzie comes back up, we'll open the floor and we'll go ahead and take those questions. So let me just mention a few things. Okay, it's, I don't know if that's me or if that's, so we're a state regulatory agency. We insure and license the insurance companies. A lot of, one way to look at us is we're the police of the insurance companies. We investigate the complaints when somebody has a complaint against the insurance company, whether it's because of the rates, because some, the premiums went up, a policy that there's a, you're trying to get your insurance company to pay on a claim. We also investigate that. If there's any insurance fraud, we look at that also. So these are some of the things that we are looking at. So we, here we go. That's the picture of my boss, the new boss, the insurance commissioner, Ricardo Lara. In case you didn't know what he looked like. There he is right there. Let me see if I'm doing this right or if I'm doing it. Okay, we have about 1,400 employees. Just to give you an idea when I went to work on loan to the Department of Insurance for the State of Louisiana after Katrina, I was there for about a week or two helping the state dealing with a lot of the same issues, some of the same insurance companies. And one of the things that I was very surprised about is when we, when I walked in, there was 29 Department of Insurance employees for the whole State of Louisiana. And just to give you the contrast, our department has over 1,400 employees and everything. We deal with investigators, some of them have peace officer status, financial analysis. We do different roles that we have in the department. We process over 8,000 rate applications annually. We issue over 190 licenses, some of our new and some of our renewals. We do financial reviews of the insurance companies, hundreds of them annually. We receive over 170,000 consumer assistant calls. We investigate over 35,000 consumer complaints. We've actually recovered about 84 million for consumers on an annual basis. We process thousands of referrals regarding suspected fraud. We conduct criminal investigation and that has resulted in thousands of arrests annually. We take insurance fraud very seriously. Just want you to know that. So I wanna talk to you about some very important things. I think it's important for everyone to understand the basics about insurance and residential policies. When I was doing investigations and handling complaints from the 2003 fires, we were finding that a lot of folks were underinsured. And some of that was because people didn't realize what they should have and what their policy covered. So I just wanna touch and maybe this will help you kind of rethink, analyze what you have, go over your policy, maybe when you get back home and you'll take a look, a second look at your policy making sure that it in fact has everything that is needed for you, that it is adequate for your needs as far as your residents. So let's go through some basics and I like to start with just kind of letting folks know. Let's see, yeah, it's moving on me quickly here. I don't know if I'm doing something wrong or it's doing something on me. Let's see, okay, you make it go and I'll let me get just the next slide. Is it enter? One more? Okay, we'll just do that, oh, okay. Technical difficulties, no problem. Let me go through them. I know some of them by memory so why don't we do it that way, huh? Okay, dwelling, there's six essential coverages, okay? There's six essential coverages that these are pretty standard in a H03 policy, pretty standard in a homeowner's policy and the six coverages are dwelling, other structures, personal property, additional living expenses, also known as loss of use and then liability insurance and medical payments coverage. So these are the six standard. There are other coverages that you can ask for. There's a code upgrade. Those are things that folks, you need to get yourself informed, make sure you understand the benefits of that and code upgrade is really important, especially if you have an older home. The insurance policy will not cover for requirements by the city because sometimes cities will ask for something to be upgraded. I'm sorry, to be up to code. Something that was 50 years old now, it has to be up to code. Maybe the electrical wiring has to be a little different. There's other things that they may require. So it's important to understand that a standard policy doesn't cover for all those things. If they're asking specifically by the city and it didn't have it before. So there are these coverages. I think I'm getting some here. Oh, okay. Let's go through the coverages. So dwelling coverage, what is dwelling coverage? Let me put it this way. The dwelling coverage is kind of the foundation in some ways or look at it as the umbrella because based on that dwelling coverage that you have, which is coverage A, if you were to go back home and when you get home, I actually encourage you to look at what's called the declaration sheet. That declaration sheet will have a summary of your coverages and it should have these six and it may even have a couple others. So loss assessment is another one that you can actually have. If you live in an association, a home association, you might want that type of coverage. These are additional ones, but talking about the six basics, you should look at your declaration sheet and make sure that you have, you understand what these coverages mean and the amounts that you have. Okay, so the first one is the dwelling coverage. That's coverage A. And that essentially pays for permanent structure and anything that is attached permanently to the home. So just imagine anything that is permanently attached to the home, that is part of the structure that would be covered under dwelling coverage. Okay, that's coverage A, dwelling. And let me say something's very important here. Based on what amount you have for dwelling, everything is gonna be impacted by that dwelling coverage. And I'm sure the question you have is why. And this, I'm glad you asked. The reason why everything is in impact because they are based, your other coverages are based on what you have for dwelling coverages. They will pay a percentage of what you have in dwelling coverage. For example, under property, personal property, they may only pay 50% of what you have in dwelling coverage for personal property. So it's all based on dwelling coverage. So it's important for you to understand what the percentage is and make sure that those numbers are, they correspond correctly and that it's adequate for your needs. Okay, so that's, this is the first coverage, dwelling coverage, anything, the permanent structure and anything that is permanently attached to the home. By the way, a lot of folks get a little confused of how much coverage I should have. If you look at a home in Arkansas, you buy that home, it's gonna be 100,000. The exact same home in Texas, maybe 300,000. Go to California. All of a sudden it's half a million dollars. The same home, same builder, everything, all the features are the same. It just costs more in California. And so you must understand that you're not really looking at value. You know, you're not looking at the value of your home as to how much coverage you should have. The amount of coverage you should have is not based on the value of your home. And I'm gonna explain to you why. If the whole house was to burn down, you would still have the value of the property. You would still have the ground. You would still have the land, okay? So it really, what you're looking for is how much does it cost to rebuild that house again? And the best way to figure that out is to actually talk to a contractor, a local contractor, and try to find out, hey, how much do you charge per square foot? And somebody will say, maybe it's 300, a square foot, and just do the division. 300 times whatever square foot did you have in your home. And that is a ballpark amount of what you should have in coverages. Now, I encourage you, you know, I live by a motto and that motto is trust, but verify, okay? It is a great motto, a president, one of the presidents used it and he said that and you know what, I live by that. So great that your insurance agent is telling you this is the amount of coverage you should have. There's nothing wrong with you checking with a couple local contractors and just verifying that they're in the ballpark, okay? If you have additional things in the house like upgraded granite and other things, then you need to consider those things. Perhaps then you need to, you know, that needs to be increased or adjusted accordingly. But that's what you're looking for. Now, don't forget if there's a fire, hopefully it never happens here in Santa Cruz, but if there was to be a fire, you have to remember there is also that surge demand. All of a sudden contractors are very busy so they start raising their rates a little bit. The department is really concerned when they start really getting out of hand and you know, that's a problem. But you know, there's an understanding that there may be supply demand, you know, to get the different things. So there are those factors, but you know, try to work with those numbers to at least get you in the ballpark, okay? The other area of coverage, which is coverage B is other structures. So you have the detached garage that's, there is a distance between the actual dwelling coverage, I'm sorry, the structure, the main structure and the other, the garage. If it's detached, then that would be considered other structure and that would be your other coverage. And you wanna check that out, make sure that's adequate for rebuilding, you know, the detached garage. It could also cover for a fence. It could also cover for a swimming pool. Anything that is considered other structures. The way I like to describe personal property is if you could imagine taking a house and turning it upside down. And if you turned it upside down and everything that fell out of that home, that's essentially your personal property, your jewelry, your dishwasher, I'm sorry, your washer and dryer, your clothes, your television, all these things, they would be your personal property. Sometimes there is coverage if you are on vacation somewhere. Say you take your camcorder, your computer. There is a possibility that a lot of that would be covered if you took it to Europe or on a vacation somewhere. But you need to check your policy because not all policies cover for all these extra stuff when you take it on vacation. I'm not talking emptying out the whole home. I'm talking about just a few items like a camcorder and maybe a laptop, those things. You need to check your policy carefully because not all policies cover these items when they're away from your home. Here generally it's 50 to 75% of your dwelling coverage. That's what the amount of your limits will be. There's the actual cash value. There's replacement costs. There's sometimes where insurance companies will actually do a depreciation. They'll look at your item and they'll say, hey listen, because it's three years old, we're gonna take 10% for every year and it depends on the item. So you have to understand that that could happen unless you have the actual ACV coverage. And also there are scheduling. If you have a ring, sometimes the insurance policies only cover, they will only cover up to a certain amount. Let's just say you have some jewelry. It will only cover a certain amount. So you have to be careful. You may need to schedule that particular item. They call it like a limit within a limit. So even though they say, well yeah, we'll cover for all your jewelry and all this, but then you find out that they have a limit of $2,500, $3,500. So you might need to schedule it or do some sort of endorsement. The other coverage here is additional living expenses, also known as loss of use. In many cases, it is 40% of your dwelling that varies according to from insurance to insurance company. They kind of have possibly different numbers, but that's not unusual. And what it covers for, if your house is not in livable conditions, you can actually receive recompense or reimbursement for laundry, hotel, breakfast, lunch, dinner, and also for a leased home. So we're seeing a lot of folks like in Santa Rosa, Paradise, where they're actually leasing homes. It's gonna take them a while to rebuild. And so they're in these homes where they've been able to get that paid for. Liability is a very important coverage. It claims against you, injuries for non-residents. It can't be your spouse. It can't be somebody that's living with you. It's gotta be somebody that is not a resident of your home. It does cover for damage caused by pets, dog bites, some breeds are excluded. And of course, protection against lawsuits. Sometimes you can actually, if it's a breed, a dog that actually is covered under the policy, if you take that dog and you're at the park, that would cover you for that also. So the last thing, a standard policy, a fire policy is medical expenses. And this is also for non-residents. There's no negligence required. And these are examples of limits. I don't see, excuse me, limits that are very high on this. 1,000, 5,000, 10,000, maybe 25,000. But you really, this is really, let's just say somebody came, visited you from Europe. Let's use that again. And they don't have coverage here in the United States. What would happen is to say that you left your water hose out in front, they were walking in and they slipped and fell and hurt themselves. Well, who's gonna pay for their medical bills, right? That's what this does. This pays for immediate medical bills. They don't, nobody cares how it happened or who was negligent or whose fault it was. That's not an issue. You just wanna make sure that they get taken care of. So that's what this coverage is for. So you should go back in your policy and if you feel uncomfortable with $1,000 of medical coverage, you know, maybe you wanna move that up to $5,000. So these are the essential coverages. Does anybody know if this is one of the perils that's covered under a fire policy? This is a lightning. Anybody? Somebody, let's see, let's have a vote. How many say that it does cover? It does cover. How many say it doesn't cover? Okay, you're about 50, 50. How many believe that a fire policy covers for earthquake? Raise your hand. Oh, no voters here, okay. How about for fire, of course? All right, everybody better rise. And then of course for flood, does it cover? Anybody? No, okay, good. Yeah, essentially these are the two things that are not coverage. A fire of lightning is covered. It is one of the things. Windstorm, lightning is covered. Tree falling, it would cover, yeah. Here's the covered, more detailed. Theft, fire, or lightning, explosion, smoke, freezing. We've seen folks that there's been freezing of their pipes and there's been issues. Vehicles, falling objects, volcanic eruptions, windstorm or hail, riot or civil commotion, damage caused by air crack, vandalism or malicious mischief, damage due to weight of ice, snow or sleet, sudden and accidental tearing apart, cracking, burning or bulging, sudden and accidental damage from artificial generated electrical current, accidental discharge or overflow of water from plumbing, air conditioning, et cetera. Now you need to look at your policy because some of these may vary a bit, okay? I'm gonna be honest with you. There are some of these like the riot and civil commotion. I'm looking at that and I'm taking a second look, okay? Because I don't always see it in policies as a covered peril. So go back to your policy. I've seen policies, I've been comparing policies lately and I am noticing that there are some fluctuations on some of these things. So go back and look at it. These are some of the typical excluded perils, power failure, industrial pollution or smoke, earth movement, water damage due to flood, intentional loss, war, nuclear accidents, pets and other animals, insects and pests, settling, wear and tear, act of negligence, actions taken by government and other associations, legal action due to lack of proper permits, defective construction, designer maintenance, theft or damage from vandalism and vacant dwellings or in dwellings under construction, deterioration due to weather conditions that aggravates the other excluded causes of loss. We encourage people to be careful. After loss, make sure you deal with the mitigation. Mitigation minimizes exposure, mitigation protects your family and property. Mitigation is your responsibility. There's a leak, it rained, there's a storm and then you just say, I'm gonna call the adjuster, come, it's a Friday and then you call him Monday. And then you say, I'm gonna go on vacation and you never actually come and have the rest, the roof covered, have somebody come out and board out, maybe the windows that got blown out, whatever it is, that could be a problem. The insurance company's gonna look at you and say, wait a minute, you're telling me you didn't at least try to cover this or do anything. So that's your responsibility and that's pretty standard in insurance policies. They ask you to do that. And if you have a problem with that, I encourage you to give us a call. We'll look that over and we'll happily investigate that. It could be a questionable thing. There are certain circumstances where perhaps you didn't know that it was as bad as it was worse than what you thought. Straps on loose objects, fire retardant material, location of residence, all these things. I wanna take a pause here and stop because I think it would be important. I don't wanna get so far in just focusing on this. I know there are a lot of questions, a lot of things. So I think that it might be a good place to take a pause and see if we can start with some questions. And I think Lizzy's gonna give us the ground rules. Indeed. So we're gonna open up for questions right now. What we're gonna have people do is we're gonna have you line up in front of the podium in the middle of the room. When you do ask your question, please speak clearly into the microphone so the TV televising can pick it up. We ask that you keep your question to under a minute. And then after you ask your question, please sit down and let Mr. Mazer respond. Once everybody, it's a small group, so once everybody gets a chance to ask a question, we are welcome to come up and ask another one. If you'd prefer that somebody else ask a question for you. Chris Berry, can you raise your hand? He's back in the back corner. He has note cards with pens and you're welcome to write your question down and he'll ask it for you. So that's it. So please come to the center. Thank you. Hello. Yes. So I live in a condo. It's fairly close to the ocean. And the insurance company that had before State Farm said, we don't ensure that close to the ocean. Another company said they would for the homeowners coverage. Meanwhile, the condo association has insurance with State Farm, perhaps grandfathered in, for the part that's the responsibility of the association. And so I'm paying insurance for the part, the interior part that's my responsibility. And so it has to be with a separate company. And so I'm having a little trouble trying to distinguish where those boundaries are, like how much, because the amount the insurance agent quoted was a very small percentage of the value of the home. I understand what you're saying about, it's replacing some costs, not that, because the ground, the land is still there. But do you have guidelines for where that boundary is? And also what might be a typical percentage for a condo that would be different than from a freestanding house, a percentage of the total value of the home? Yeah, so let's talk about that. I lived in a townhouse and it was not attached anywhere. And essentially this is what you need to know. Everything you touch the wall and that is essentially your responsibility to ensure. Everything beyond that wall that you touch in the inside is not your responsibility. So that would be, the home association would be responsible for everything from the stucco, pretty much on the outside all the way, and everything out there. Anything that's- And the roof as well. The roof also, yeah, that is all their responsibility. And you should actually ask for that master policy. I would encourage you to get that. And the reason why your insurance would be a lot less is because you're not, you're only looking at pretty much just your personal property, the liability part, the medical coverage. You should look at the coverages you have, but it probably will cover any upgrades you have. If you have granite or anything like that, that would cover for all that. And of course, like I said, personal property. But anything about the structure, you're probably not gonna have very much need, you're gonna have a lot of need for your structure coverage, the dwelling. What about the floor ceiling between the floors? Yeah, that should be their responsibility. And what about the inside paint against that wall? That is your responsibility. So I'm responsible for the paint, but not the wall itself. So if the wall- Not behind the wall. So if the wall falls down, am I responsible for half the wall? Okay, now you're splitting hairs on me here. It would probably be your responsibility unless the damage came from the outside. If it came through the stuck going into your wall, then that could be something that the homeless association would cover. If you cause damage going out, then they would probably say, hey, you gotta fix the whole cheat rock and whatever. But then the ceiling floor between, like say the first and second floor, that's their responsibility, even though it's inside the home. Okay, so now we're getting into another situation. We're getting technical here on things, but if there was a problem where the homeowner above you caused something to go through, then there's liability there on the homeowner for that apartment upstairs or the- And otherwise it would be my responsibility. Well, I can't imagine what kind of situation that it would just happen without a cause. You know what I'm saying? Sure. Yeah. Well, great. Well, thank you very much for your help. And if I asked for that master policy for the association, that insurance company should give me a copy. Absolutely. Absolutely. And if you have any problems, call the Department of Insurance. Wonderful. Thank you very much. You're welcome. I've heard that some home owners in Santa Cruz County have been getting non-renewal notices from their insurance companies for fire insurance. And my concern is to understand why this is happening and am I gonna be next? Well, let me read here our official statement, okay? So because it says we are aware there's been an increase in non-renewals and understand that residential insurance is getting harder to find in any area that insurers are identifying as having a higher than average risk of wildfire. While the Department of Insurance doesn't have the legal authority to tell insurers what level of risk they must write or where they must write insurance, we can monitor that they are consistent in their decisions and that their decisions are based on considerations of risk, not other biases. We are here to help you and have a number of tips to help you through this process. I'll give you a few of them. If you getting non-renewal notice, contact your insurer and ask if there are any specific actions that you could take to mitigate your risk and retain coverage. And I just, we were in Ben LeMond and a gentleman was telling us that all his insurance company was telling him we're not gonna insure you. And he came back and he did some things, defensible space and other things. And they said, okay, we were insurer. And he said that went on over and over various times. I don't know if it was four or five times. And they would insure him. And to this day, he's still insured with the same company that was threatening to. So ask them, that's the first thing you should do. Number two, if you think your renewal was unfair, you can file a complaint with us. Number three, don't let these actions delay starting your search for a new insurer. Make sure that you have done everything you can, do at your property to mitigate the fire risk, then start shopping for coverage. So know that there are other places also that if you are non-renewed, there's a fair plan. It's a place of last resort. It's an insurance company that is also regulated by the Department of Insurance. There is also the surplus line area where you can actually get insurance from a non-admitted carrier. And we've seen some folks that have done that. And just today, earlier today, a gentleman came up and he said, I have insurance through a non-admitted carrier and he was paying $1,200. So he got canceled and he went to a snow, I mean, we're hearing all kinds of numbers, but this is what I heard just a few hours ago. So yeah, so this is what the department is doing. We're just, we're aware of it, we're concerned and we're monitoring it. And if that happens, we encourage you to first try to do these things. All right, thanks, okay. Hi, so my question is about getting ready to demonstrate to the insurance company, should there be a wildfire and the house is lost? What should I be prepared with in terms of receipts and being able to show value? Every year I race around with a video camera and narrate my current possessions and I'm on this crazy quest to take screen captures of the receipts, because maybe I'm gonna be one of those people that's running out without car keys or shoes on and didn't get to grab my boxes. Is that all necessary or am I driving myself crazy? Wow, you're the ideal claimant. For me, when I was an adjuster, I wish I had claimants like you, okay? You're the perfect, you're doing exactly what we encourage people to do. I actually have some brochures in the back. They're called the inventory guide. We have an inventory guide and we encourage folks to get that filled out to its entirety. So you go page by page and one page will be for one bathroom. The next page will be for a master bedroom. The next one will be for bedroom one, bedroom two. Each page is different and you list the items that you have in that room, try to put a value to it. Keep receipts. The back has an envelope. You can actually put the receipts back there or nowadays everything is on camera. So- I guess my question is, is a video, in your experience with insurance companies, is the videotape adequate? Because I hate filling out paperwork out here. I hear you. Let me say this, the insurance companies do wanna see something in writing. So I think with that, with the video and they'll ask you for an inventory sheet. Oh, so they are gonna want that. Of course I grant that brochure, okay. Yeah, so normally there are some circumstance when there's a disaster, when the commissioner will step in and say, listen, you're out of control, insurance companies and we ask you to just pay 75% of the personal property upfront and then deal with getting that list for the rest of the lines. Because we know they have at least- So our personal possession is supposed to be on that list as well? Yes, that's what that list would be. So it's important, try to get as much information. I'm telling you as 10 years having been a AAA adjuster, I can tell you that having an inventory list is important because that's what an adjuster's looking for. What are the items? How can we justify? We have to document, I'm putting on my insurance adjuster hat. So as an insurance adjuster and insurance company, they have to document their paying out monies and if they ever get audited, is they have to show why and justify the amounts they're paying out. So- Okay, all right. Good, all right. Thank you. Just for my own personal information, were you an adjuster for 3A before they split into 3A and CSAA? 1987 to 1997. It's a lot different now. It is. Yeah, a whole lot different. A lot of agents have lost their job but that's not what I wanted to talk to you about. Let's see, I got a letter from 3A that said I was in a fire zone. It said I would still have, or something to the effect that I would still have 3A but my fire policy would be written by somebody else. I can't remember exactly what it says, you know. And it said to contact your agent. Contact my agent. This agent was one of the people that got fired over this 3A. And when I tried to contact, I couldn't find, they found somebody who said he would be my agent. And we met with him. We went through my policy. He proposed several changes and he says he'll make those changes. And for me to call with my credit card when my policy came due, I had three policies. I have about eight policies and I had three policies due on this particular date. So I go to call him and he's not in, you know. And they tell me that there's a 30 day grace period. And so I had called twice. First time the local office didn't answer it. Answered at some other office and they said that I had 30 days. And then I called again before it was due and talked to the local office. And they told me it took 30 days. About a week after it expired, you know. I finally got a hold of the agent. And I confirmed with him that there was this 30 day grace period. He had no problem. So I gave him my credit card number and I was expecting him to pay for all three policies with my credit card. Well, he didn't. And I got a notice for one of the other two policies that I paid for that it was being canceled. So I called him and I got a second notice again on one of those other two policies and I sent him an email, right? And so he fixed it for those two other policies not for my homeowner's insurance. And per a letter I got in January, which was a reason I called him. I had to sign up for the fire insurance before my policy died. But in talking to this guy, he seemed to know all about this, you know. And he tells me, don't worry. And I didn't worry. And then I got a notice from my mortgage company that says I don't have insurance and they're gonna charge me a thousand bucks. The situation now is 3A, the agent, they say they're not responsible for anything. And they refer me to CSAA. And I talked to CSAA and they tell me, one of the things this agent did is he placed me with another insurance because, you know, my mortgage, I had to have coverage. So they just kind of said, well, you got insurance, forget about it. Well, I'm not forgetting about it. The policy I have barely covers fire. It barely covers liability and has so much restrictions that I don't feel I'm adequately covered. I feel 3A and CSA are responsible. Now I've had other problems with 3A and CSAA. And I do not believe the deal in good faith and they have this thing of, you know, 3A won't help you at all. And CSAA is a- Let me interject here. This happened in January? Yes. Okay, and you have letters and emails that went back and forth? Yes. Okay, if you could do me a big favor, I would like for you to file a complaint against the insurance company. Have you done that yet? I have all those other claims, but I haven't on this. With our department? The department's your- On my other disputes with 3A, I have. Okay, but you haven't done it on this one. But I haven't done it on this one. Let me tell you the situation on the other ones. I call the insurance, I make a complaint, all right? They tell me to deal with the insurance company. The insurance company sends me around in circles. There's a hundred letters. The state insurance as well. This is a legal matter. They can't help me. But there's so many clear things that shouldn't be, but they're not investigating it. And I think it's, that brings me to another thing. I don't want to take too much of your time. I was gonna suggest perhaps I can talk to you after. Oh, wonderful. And maybe we can go more specific with you that way, perhaps and give you more time that way. Okay, thank you. Yeah, you give me a minute after. So I live off the grid in the beautiful Santa Cruz mountains close to where the big fire was in 2006. And we, our insurance, what's not renewed last year. And we're thinking about building new construction there. And I'm seeing that it's my responsibility for the location of my home in the mitigation. Oh. So how does that, what do you suggest in terms of, construction in off the grid area where fire was and are there specific things that I need to do in terms of getting a huge water tank or anything like that that will help insurance companies cover us? And, or is it just a bad idea? And I should try to build somewhere else. Well, I can't make that recommendation. That decision is yours. I think that when we're talking about location, what you have to remember is if you do build in an area that is risky for many reasons, we saw folks building homes in Laguna Niguel, Laguna Hills on the hills. And there was slides, land movement, and a lot of the folks lost their homes and there was no coverage for that because that's not a covered peril. So they did it at their own risk. Now folks do that all the time. They build homes on the side of mountains and hills everywhere and people don't have any problems. What we're trying to say is just be aware the risks. And if you do things right, if you check, make sure you're up to code and the construction is done correctly, but there is also a potential for higher insurance premiums because you may be in an area that is a higher risk. So that's the balance of the two things. Yeah, I'm concerned that we won't find any insurance up there, but I guess there are, like you said, before there's some options. Yeah, you probably need to look around. You go to our website, our website has some really good resources on insurance companies. You can compare what they're charging by the top 40 insurance companies. I'm sorry, the largest, the four largest insurance companies, maybe even the 50 largest insurance companies do a comparison on the different coverages and also the premiums. And then I like to point people to the, I call it the report card, but it's called the complaint study. So you can kind of see what the insurance companies, how many complaints they have and so forth. So usually these tools talk to some folks and then you have to make that decision. We can't make that, we're not allowed to do that. Okay, thank you. You're welcome. Good evening. I live on a slope and I'm worried that if my house gets destroyed either by fire or something else that the County might come in and say that the lot is not buildable, even if I'm redoing the structure that was there previously, have you seen that before or is that something to take into consideration? That, I mean, that's the city, you know? So that's something outside of the department that we would be involved in. You know, it would be advisable for you to check with the city, see if that's something that happens within the community that you're in because that's just a risk that you'll have to take and we don't get involved in that part of it. Okay, thank you. Quick follow-up. If you don't have receipts for some of your property, is that just determined by already a preset standard by the insurance company? This is like, this is the computer that you have so this is how much we're gonna pay for it if they're itemizing lost property? Yeah, it depends on how your policy set up. So some, if your policy set up to receive, you know, complete recompense for your, you know, without any depreciation, then you would receive the full value. It wouldn't be where they would take depreciation. So you have to check with your agent when you're signing up to make sure that you're getting the right, the policy that is adequate for you once again. Okay, thank you. Good evening. I have a question not specifically about my current situation, but I've been reading about in paradise that a lot of people have discovered that their homes after they burn down become toxic waste sites and that they don't have coverage to mitigate the cleanup from that. Is that a universal problem or is that something that we can get a rider for? I haven't heard that it's, it's a toxic. You say there's a toxic environment or? There are significant environmental, environmental impacts of well, all the stuff in your house is loaded with chemicals and when you burn it, it's okay. Okay, I think I see. Well, it would, it will be until they clean up the neighborhood. You know what I'm saying? I mean, I, I don't know if you've got an opportunity to go by paradise. I was up in paradise about two months ago in a two week span. I was there about three or four times and it is true that if you go through the town, it's almost 90% gone. They're, they're rebuilding it though. I was at a Starbucks, a beautiful Starbucks right down with the main Boulevard there in paradise and it was beautiful. People were, people from paradise were sitting there and just enjoying their coffee. And so there are areas where you can see whole communities, just areas that are completely burned down. And yes, it would be toxic and you know, so they, that's why they have to do the debris removal together and work with the city so that when the infrastructure is completed and all the debris is removed, then they can start building. And I'm sure by that time everything, everything will be on track and there shouldn't be any problem with that. I haven't seen an issue with any of the communities that I've seen in the past. So yeah. Thank you. I just wanted to follow up on Joe's question because I think the question was really if the insurance company is not gonna pay until that mitigation or that debris removal is done, which is incredibly costly. Are there insurance riders that somebody could get for that debris removal cost? Or are there some ways to have the insurance company pay for that in order for that homeowner to rebuild? Is that really the question? I couldn't have said it myself. So debris, debris removal is something that should be part of your policy. And every, every community is different. You know, we had a community in Selma 400 homes burned down and they had an issue there because, you know, there was fighting within insurance companies. And so everybody, there wasn't really a whole lot moving and, you know, it was sitting for a while and the residents were in alarm. So there is coverage under your homeowner's policy. You need to check to see how much that is and what the limits aren't because everybody's is different. And, you know, you kind of work together to the community with the other insurance companies to try to come up with that. But as far as, you know, you work together with the other neighbors and so forth and try to get that taken care of. It's gonna take a while. It's gonna take a while. You know, it's not gonna happen overnight. And there's a lot of things that have to happen for you to really start construction. You can't just remove the debris from your area and expect to start construction right away if the city doesn't allow it because the debris from the neighbors is too close. So there's issues there. You have to, every situation is different. Let's put it that way. So thank you. You're welcome. Good afternoon. I live in the Santa Cruz mountains. I came to Santa Cruz too because I wanted to meet my family. We wanted to live in the forest. We were customers of an insurance company, travelers for five years. In May, they canceled our insurance. For a month, we were uninsured because we couldn't find anybody to insure our home. Our insurance agent offered a policy that was almost three times while we were paying travelers before. So I declined that. It's an issue just right in my opinion. Thereafter, the mortgage company insured the home to protect their investment. And at the time, at this time, we're just, our property's not covered. Personal property. And we don't have liability insurance. I shopped around called number of agents, companies. Nobody will insure our home. I found a company in Nevada that offered to insure our home and they sent an inspector. And they told us, well, we have a rating a scale from zero to a hundred. You're a 67, we can insure you. When the inspector came, I called back and they said, well, we can insure you because your home doesn't have central heating. What kind of ridiculous excuse is that? So at this point, we don't have insurance. The mortgage company is protecting their interest in our home, but we don't have insurance. I'm familiar with your agency. I work with you and criminal investigations. So I visited your website and I followed some of the same advice you just gave tonight. I tried to work with insurance company with travelers. I explained to them that the reason for the cancellation didn't make any sense. I am surrounded by 40 redwood trees. The redwood trees don't burn. They are very resilient against fire. I don't have any broach in my house. The reason they gave me for cancellation is that my house is surrounded by brush. There's one single piece of brush in my home. My home is completely clean. The roof is clean. I have a fire hydrant 300 feet from my home and a fire engine permanently stationed one block away from my home. Those mitigating factors didn't mean anything to them. They didn't even listen to me. I follow complaint with your agency. Your investigators told me, no crime, it's nothing we can do. There are hundreds of people in my neighborhood and adjacent neighborhoods on the same boat. Yesterday, there was an article in the Sacramento Bee entitled Sticker Shock for California Wildfire Areas Insurance Rates Double Policies Dropped. I'm a victim of this and so are 100 more in my neighborhood and in the adjacent areas. I don't know if you're familiar with the next door social media outlet. This place where neighbors share information. While you were giving your introduction, I went and I visited this website and I clicked on the, I put in the word fire insurance. 70 posts came up, 70. 70 posts with hundreds of entries, people sharing my suffering. There's nothing I can do. In the, on the newspaper article, Mr. Lara said, I wouldn't say it's a crisis mode yet. Well, I would like you to take the message and tell them there is a crisis. And at this point, I don't know what to do. Thank you. The department, as I indicated earlier, where we do know there is some of the issues going on in the community and I'm sorry to hear what is happening to this gentleman and perhaps somebody else in this room that's having that issue. But, you know, this is, one thing we need to understand about the market is that it's a voluntary market. We can't force insurance companies to write in a certain area. And so that's something that, you know, we just, we can't tell them, hey, you've got to start writing these high-risk areas. I've seen over the years that it seems to balance itself out eventually. But when these things start happening, especially because of, we had basically the last three years just fire after fire after fire. And the insurance companies are a little leery right now of writing insurance policies. So, you know, we're monitoring it. We're looking for some ideas that are being put forward. And, you know, we're talking to the community. I was in paradise and I spoke to, I was there as a representative for the insurance commissioner. And we were with the senator assembly member, I'm sorry, Jim Gallagher and some of the community folks, councilman and councilwoman for the city of paradise and, you know, sharing ideas and trying to find those things that could benefit the community and hopefully take care of some of these situations. But we are aware of it. I can tell you, I have been with the department. It's going to be actually 20 years in November and I have seen where we have made changes that were not available, you know, when I started. So every year there's new things that we were able to, as we find the problems, we start, you know, changing things as far as sponsoring legislation and hopefully resolving some of these issues. So, you know, there's not an easy answer for this. It's a voluntary market. We encourage you to go to the fair plan if you can get insurance anywhere. Try the fair plan, try the surplus line market. You know, as I indicated, we had a gentleman today came up to me, said I went with the surplus line market paying $1,200. You know, he seemed to be satisfied. There are some cases where you can, I know there's other places where it's, I've heard premiums as high as 4,000 and higher. So, you know, I, we're just, you know, let us know, stay in touch with us. Hopefully we find some solutions with the community, with the community leaders and, you know, the legislation here, the legislators from the, for the state of California. Let's take the next question. Thank you. If you've said you've been to Paradise, I assume you were also in Santa Rosa the year before and probably other fires, I've read your bio. What are some of the big lessons in hindsight that people in those areas learned that you have helped them with and that we can take as knowledge to move forward to make ourselves better prepared in this area? You know, I've been doing a lot of these, I've been traveling with the insurance commissioners for, with a lot of these losses. We've done, we've brought in compliance officers and set up appointments with folks, you know, like 20 minute appointments and sit down and go over things. But one of the greatest things that I've, I've seen that folks really find benefit is making sure that they're adequately insured. And I think what I covered earlier about their policy, going back, looking at your declaration sheet, understand it, make sure that you've verified that that amount is sufficient for, you know, for you and you're not underinsured. I think those are very important things to look at. Think about surge demand, think about what could happen if there was a disaster and, you know, the price of construction is gonna go up. So think about where you are, you know, don't, a lot of folks start thinking about the price. And so they think, hey, I'm gonna save some money, but they're not adequately covered. And that was kind of one of the biggest issues we saw, starting when I started with the department back in 2000, 1999 actually. And so you have to be very aware of what your coverages are. And I think if you can do that, that would help you. As far as some of these issues, cancellations and non-renewals, you know, talk to your neighbors, find out what they're doing, you know, talk to your community leaders, check with our websites, see if there's information there, call our 800 number. You know, sometimes things could change from one week to another. And perhaps, you know, there's something else that we can do to help you in that area. But the most important thing, I think, is making sure you're adequately insured. That's what I've heard over and over. Do insurance carriers, when there is a large-scale disaster, they tend to make good on policies? Or do they start looking for loopholes? And are there things that people need to be aware of to watch out for that could allow a loophole, if you will, for non-payment, even if they are well-insured? We take that very seriously when insurance companies are trying to find certain loopholes. And so if we see an insurance company doing that, it'll come to our attention because we'll start getting those calls. And so that's a red flag for us, and that flags it. But we don't really, the insurance companies will be in a lot of trouble if they start looking for all these loopholes. And we will fight them. So we're there to help you. We're a consumer, we're the largest consumer agency, protection agency in the state. So we're there. Thank you. You're welcome. If I could just follow up, Mr. Maison, on a question that was asked before, I understand about adequate insurance coverage, and that's great for people who had policies who had looked at that, that are in those unfortunate areas like Santa Rosa and Paradise. What people are finding here in the county that I have heard is that when their insurance is canceled, it isn't because they're necessarily in an area that has had a fire before. It might be identified as a wild land urban interface, and they might have identified risk according to the insurance company, but they've never had a claim. And like this gentleman talked about before, he doesn't have any brush. He's has plenty of defensible space. In terms of an insurance company saying that they will not cover someone that has had this adequate insurance for five years or 10 years or 20 years, has the insurance commissioner or your office thought about assigned risk? Because people have to have insurance that they have a mortgage. So is there an assigned risk program that's being thought of that people would have that adequate coverage or the coverage that they need in order for that recovery and the replacement costs that now is becoming exorbitantly expensive based on the insurance company's risk for taking on policy? There has been some discussion. I don't know where they are on that matter. The insurance commissioner, as you know, has only been in for, I think it's been less than 200 days. And so he's been working closely with the governor on some ideas and our staff. And so there are some things that are being discussed and I don't know where we are at on that at this point. I know there was a meeting today in LA regarding climate change and I think there may be some connection there, but the concern is because it is getting, we're concerned that it could be a year round type of thing and we're monitoring that. The insurance companies are still strong, but if this continues in this direction where we're having constant losses and fires, then we really are gonna be in a lot of a big mess. So it's better to start working on it now, but I can't tell you where we're at on that process of having a like a risk, like a sign type of risk insurer of last resort. We do have the fair plan though. Don't forget the fair plan is available, but this is something that needs to be discussed. And I'm happy to talk some more with the committee leaders about what we have. Well, the Santa Cruz is a community of activists and action and has been for as long as I've lived here for over 45 years. So if there was some direction that you could give to us as consumers and as taxpayers in California residents that would impact how those decisions are being made or that legislation is being looked at, we'd certainly be interested in hearing that as well. Absolutely. I have some ideas that I'd like to share with tomorrow. More specific, we had a pretty animated discussion earlier and I don't wanna go into all the little details of this because it would take some time, but I think that if we can talk through the discussion through the leaders and I was thinking more, some of these communities that are within the WUI, perhaps getting together with their senators and assembly members because Placerville has been impacted, Paradise area, Santa Rosa, some of these areas and perhaps if the legislators got together and started working together, we can pass some legislation and regulations that will give the department teeth to be able to do some things. So we'll share some more ideas tomorrow. Yes, sir. Okay. Thanks for all the time you're spending with us these couple of days here. I just wanted to echo officer Gomez is concerned about the tree versus brush issue before I read the question from the back. At my house, I got a letter from an inspector saying, we're gonna drop you if you don't cut all your brush. My brush is 20, 120 year old redwood trees, no brush, not a fire hazard. Thankfully, as the gentleman said in Ben Lohman earlier today, I had Rich Samson come out from Cal Fire and write me a letter and all state accepted that. But to me, the situation is challenging enough that if you throw inspectors in that don't even know what kind of fuel they're looking at, it just makes it horribly worse. So I think that's perhaps pretty far in the weeds, so to speak, but that's something else that needs consideration. And getting to the question from the back, it's a little bit of a recurring theme here, but the folks back there received a notice of non-renewal from AAA. The agent says he would get them other insurance, then they paid 40% more for that insurance. After three months, that new insurance company canceled on them, saying that their roof was too old and the house needs paint. Adding insult to injury, obviously. They only got three days notice to make changes to fix it or be canceled. Now they have no insurance and they're wondering if you have any advice. Well, a couple of things. They are supposed to get 45-day notice, so they're already in violation. So they should file a complaint? Absolutely, absolutely. There are already a couple of violations there, and I'll make you aware that those violations are very costly for them. Every one of them is, there's already fines for them, so yeah, I would just say file the complaint. Okay, thank you. Given that insurance is becoming a vanishing commodity, shall we say, due to the violence of the climate change, everything else, the fires, everything, is have you heard of anything about communities banding together to create their own insurance at all? I was in the city of Kool on Saturday, that's in Placer County. And one of the gentlemen there was mentioning that perhaps he was a business owner and he was interested in maybe doing something like that. You have to remember, though, that part of insurance, insurance 101 is spreading your risk, so you can't saturate a certain market, so there's gotta be some thought process in that, but we've heard that idea, but that would have to be an entrepreneur, somebody from the community that would begin to do that. Hi, I've heard you mention the California Fair Plan a couple of times. I spoke with an agent and she alluded to it being a double policy, where it seems that they match another insurer, and so I was wondering if you could just give the kind of elevator pitch of how the Fair Plan would work, is it that you're paying two different companies or how they broker it out? Yeah, so the Fair Plan is a quasi-government industry company that's been created, and it is a policy that is, I guess you can call it a bare bones policy, so you would get the Fair Plan, this is the place of last resort, so if you can't get insurance anywhere else, they would take you. The policy would be a bare bones policy and then you would get a second policy, we call it a wrap around, or a difference in conditions, that's the official term, difference in condition policy, the DIC policy, and that would be a complete policy that would cover your personal property and the extra stuff that would not be covered under the Fair Plan, so that's how that works. You're essentially having two policies to make up for a standard fire policy. Okay, one more question? This is a quick question. My insurance company told me there were specific things I needed to do, and I have done those. Now, who determines whether this was enough? Does the insurance company have a, can I, do I have somebody that I could go to that would be a referee and could say, oh, he did fine. I mean, like, can I go to a fire department, have them write a letter, would that be sufficient to prove it, or can the company just say, well, we don't, you didn't do a good job. We found a leaf on your property or something. Yeah, the insurance company, they do their own assessment. If you've done the things they've asked you to do, then I would expect that they would insure you, but if for some reason they don't, you can file a complaint with us after having done. But on a basis for a lawsuit? I mean, obviously you can. I mean, no, the department's never gonna stop you from filing a lawsuit. That's a legal issue between you and them. We have no problem with that. That's, we wouldn't be involved in that unless there was some violation that we saw. But you wouldn't serve as a referee. No, no. Only if you had, if there was an issue where, there was some sort of problem with you you know, there was some sort of problem with you had the insurance coverage and there was a claim. And then we, in that case, we could be involved in some sort of, yes. I've been through a number of disasters here. I'm a realtor and I went through the flood in 82 and the earthquake and there've been some fires. But it's more than just the fire insurance. What have, what's happening with the flood insurance? I know that we're getting hammered on the East Coast and it's a federal program. It's not under your jurisdiction. But if you have any information on that. You know what, I don't, we don't get involved in the flood insurance portion of it. And so, you know, even though we work closely with them when there's these, you know, hurricanes and what have you but we, I don't, we don't get involved directly. So. And on the fires issue. One of the things that sometimes people forget that fires don't just start at the corner of your lot. And I know that Bonnie Dune has done a really good job of setting up exhibits of what a clear situation should look like. There's a very nice area along Empire Grade and that this is a place, a good place for people to get together as a community, as a neighborhood and to think about getting clear space from your house out to major highways or to safety. And it's a chance to do strong community building, which makes everybody's life better. And it also, you know, whether you're collecting the insurance, the best thing is just not to have or have to use your insurance. And that sometimes, you know, we don't have to wait for government to respond. And Santa Cruz County is absolutely fabulous with taking things into our own hands and taking care of them. But it's just, just a different way of looking at it. So we never get to that point. Right, no, a real good point. By the way, I was in Berkeley doing a presentation similar to this and I was very impressed. They are really innovative. And this is, this is probably something that would be great for Santa Cruz. And they actually have a whole system. They've cut out areas where if there was a disaster, you know, coming down from the hills, they would, they have areas that they know that they would meet up and the direction of the streets, they would go a certain way. And because that was the issue that was happening in Paradise. So there's, that's one of the lessons that was learned from Paradise. There was so much confusion. There was no real system, you know, at least not a very- Fire drills. Yeah, so Berkeley is really doing an amazing thing. Well, they learned that in the, when they had the Berkeley Hills fire, I had friends that were living there at the time. And it was, you know, it was a real wake up call. And, you know, sometimes we have, we need to worry a little bit into the future. And it's a good thing to get a system in place. And you might have some things already, but they were, I was really impressed with what Berkeley was doing. They really had it all planned out. They were actually using funds at grants and they were setting up complete areas that they knew they could go there. And it was clear of brush and other things. And it was perfect for that kind of, you know, situation. Having centralized information about who's doing what and where you go with your horses, with your cows, your chicken and your children. So it's, you know, there's a lot that can be done here still. Absolutely. It's never enough. Thank you. Absolutely. Thinking of people that have had their insurance canceled and they are looking for a company that will take them, how can an individual be assured that the company will be there if they have a claim? How can you evaluate an insurance company? Okay. So the, an admitted carrier, they are backed by the California Insurance Guarantee Association. So there is like, I guess in a sense, it's like reinsurance. If something happened to the insurance company, then the CIGA would cover that. So if you have a, if you choose a company that has this backing and there is a catastrophe, you can be assured that they will perform. They would be the ones to cover that, that, that loss. If, if the insurance company went under. We don't, we don't have too many that happens to. We've lost just a few over the years, at least here in California. I know we lost one during paradise. So it is true that it does happen, but normally there's enough funds for the insurance companies to cover the losses. Well, cause we're dealing now or being asked to deal or needing to deal with companies that obscure. And so that would be how you would satisfy that. Yeah. You would make sure that they're admitted carrier. That would be one way. And you can call us to find out. Thank you. I'm back for my second question because this is being recorded and I'd like to use a bit of a teaching moment here. Can you explain for the public, what is the process that they could expect and what relief could they expect by filing a complaint with your agency? And a second of all, if you can explain a little bit about ISO and how that is really developed and what it means. Thank you. So the process of filing a complaint, you could do it a couple of ways. You can go online and you can do that electronically filed complaint. We encourage folks to download any documents they have, whether it's emails that you have, you've exchanged with insurance companies, letters that you've received, upload that to the Department of Insurance along with the reason why you're complaining and what the issues are. Make sure you're very clear what the claim number is, the date of loss, all these things. And then what'll happen, it'll be assigned to an associate compliance officer. The compliance officer will require the insurance company to send the entire file within 21 days. So there could be maybe a 30-day delay before, I wouldn't say delay, but a timeframe before you get a response from our office. Well, they'll send a letter to you right away, letting you know that we receive your complaint. But after the investigation, the auditor will look at the file, will look at the issues, look to see if there's any, what they are and compare the regulations, make sure they're not in violation and try to find perhaps some solution for you. So this is all that we try to do. So that's essentially, we'll send you a letter and tell you the results. Hopefully, I was one of the auditors, the compliance officers that did that. And we're successful many times. We get about 84 million a year back. So sometimes we aren't able to resolve issues, sometimes it's true. We'll say we can't, it's a legal issue, it's a contract issue. And when it's a contract issue, then we have no control of that. So that's important for you to know. Now, as far as ISO, we're getting in the weeds, but insurance companies have models that they use in order to look at risks. So they'll use a model, ISO is one of them. I believe theirs go from one to 10 or 11, I think it is. And so the higher the number, the higher the risk, and they consider the higher the number. Once you get to that, I think it's the 10 or 11, you're pretty much done. They're not gonna insure you. So it's important to understand these models that are behind the insurance companies and what they're doing. So. So does your agency oversee how those ISO numbers are being actually made? If they're fair, if they're realistic and fair to the consumer? Currently, we do not have authority over these models that are being used. There's not regulation for us to be able to regulate what is going on in the background with these different modeling companies. So that is something we are not allowed to do. So yeah, that is something that's one of the ideas. We're getting into the weeds now. That's one of the ideas that has come up in regards to perhaps that could help balance things out. Yeah. Thank you. I'll make it quick. So you said something about admitted insurance carriers and I realized, oh, I should ask about this. So my incredibly expensive policy used to be with all state and they've bought Northlight, which is a non-admitted. So I'm paying through the nose rather than losing and not having any insurance. What's my risk with a non-admitted? Well, folks are getting non-admitted policies. Non-admitted is not one of our licensees that has the guarantee behind it. So they may not be regulated the way that a admitted carrier would be. They aren't admitted. I'm sorry, they aren't regulated like an admitted carrier. And what does that mean that they are not regulated? So as a department, we would not look at them the same way, you know. So if they found a loophole to not pay me, are you not? There would be. Do you not have my back? There would be limitations all we can do with a non-admitted carrier, including the backing, the insurance that is behind it through CIGA. Okay. Yeah. So there are some risks. Absolutely. Yeah. I will let you know there are a lot of folks that do have non-admitted carriers and they have not had issues, but it is a risk that you do take. Okay. Thank you. Great. Well, please welcome, please help me in thanking Mr. Meza for his time and for sharing his resources. I'd also like to quickly acknowledge the members of the Education Outreach Committee of Fire Safety of Santa Cruz County. It's been a mammoth effort to make these events possible this week. So there's about five of them. Most of us are wearing name tags. Please tell them thank you. And a couple of clarifying notes earlier, the website for the Firesafe Council, I just wanted to make sure everybody had the correct address. It's www.firesafesantacruise.org. We currently have a no-cost chipping program that's going on. So if you're interested in signing up for that, please go to the website and fill out, on the action tab, you can fill out the request for assistance form and somebody will get back to you to set up a chipping date. Also, if you'd like to ask any follow-up questions, you can email info at FiresafeSantaCruiseCounty.org. So the email has county at the end and the website does not, which is kind of confusing, but you can reach us there. Also, just for more information on the Resource Conservation District, you can visit rcdsantacruise.org. And then the Department of Insurance website where you can find the information that Mr. Mesa referred to is www.insurance.ca.gov. With that, there are a number of materials in the back that we encourage you to take home and thank you so much for taking the time to be here. Thank you.