 My name is Eileen Murphy. I'm going to serve as moderator for the forum today There was going to be a few members of the press in attendance any press here Okay, we just like to know where they are and who they are and The VERSHER select board is who agreed to host the forum today We appreciate the use of the VERSHER town center building for the afternoon I'm going to ask the select board to stand over here and Introduce them. It's Ken Buschie Nicole White Fogarty and our chair is Vern Stone who is going to give you a brief welcome today Welcome you to the forum Biggest thing is let's be respectful for everybody The candidates are all up here. I'm glad welcome. Thank you for coming That's going to be quite a lot You took half my words So there's no sound system. So let's be respectful. Please avoid side conversations with your neighbor The candidates are going to project their answers out and this does work for our annual town meeting Which is held in this room every year and hold off on any cheers or jeers and support or opposition to a particular point I'm going to keep time for the candidates for their responses We expect the formal question and answer session to last about 30 35 minutes At which point we'll take questions from the audience So be thinking about your questions at this point to keep it brief the questions will be awarded to both candidates as opposed to an individual Direct the questions to the moderator We want to be efficient and allow for as many questions as we can get in as possible There are refreshments afterwards. So please do stay and we will end on time so we can have further conversation over goodies As we do the questions will be alternating back and forth as to who goes first and who goes second And keep that flow going so it's fair We're going to go ahead and get started each candidate will make an opening statement of one to two minutes The moderator will then pose a question to the candidates for each race Candidate responses will be about a minute with a limit of two minutes and be giving them a 20-second warning And we're going to do two rounds of the prepared questions after the opening statement so we'll go ahead and start with opening statements and we're actually going to go in the order of Senate House sheriff, so we're going to start with John Clark Oh, I'll stay sitting Hello, everyone. My name is John Clark. I don't have Past representation like Mark So I'm sort of new to this game but my primary issues that I'm trying to My my main platform are issues that would find that middle ground That would allow Democrats and Republicans to work on the issues that are most important for Vermonters We have a lot of issues that have been dividing people But I've focused on trying to make Vermont more affordable to do the things that I can actually do maybe as a senator and try to Bring down the some of the excessive taxes and electric rates and other things that I've been writing and talking about To help fix the pensions that I've actually been writing about for years with my background as a tax attorney Not admitted in Vermont, but I study finance and that's why you'll find that I've been writing for years that these pensions are Insufficiently funded and have been mismanaged and that pits our state workers against our taxpayers There isn't a side in that we all have to come together on that and other issues and I also have a history of working in Opioid recovery and treatment and as a criminal defense attorney And I think that brings skill sets to this town and others Related to tamping down on crime while still being compassionate to people who struggle with substance abuse and These are in some of the other issues that I think that we're going to have to address as a priority And also very much part of my platform is to help local farms and businesses, but particularly food Our food insecurity is going to rise food inflation is going to increase with the ongoing prices of fuel and Fertilizers Vermont has a unique play place to play a role in that nationally But also it will do more to help the environment to improve our agricultural and regenerative practices than all of the other Renewable programs combined and that's something Vermont can take a leadership role in in the country And by the way, it's something that Democrats and Republicans can very much and very easily agree on And we have a lot of people moving here who are young people who want to farm J and we should help them, but meanwhile a lot of young people can't afford to be here and That also is going to be an issue so these are the things that maybe Vermonters of all people can come together instead of the red blue divide and Try to work together for the things that will most help for most people and that's why I asked you to look at my Well in the red blue divide in Vermont has been hard to find The Senate Appropriations bill passed 30 to nothing the bill that restores pensions and makes sure that they are paid off by 2034 passed 30 to nothing in the Senate It also passed after the state employees association the administration the teachers the Secretary of the Treasury and others came together and put together a tough plan Eliminates a any underfunding in the pension plan and sets out a schedule for that That is the issue that that needs to be dealt with any laws Pertaining to that would be undoing what has already been done Electric rates in Vermont are worthy of discussion here. They're also along with the heating heating issues and and transportation costs We are Looking today in this year at the doubling of heating costs the double of transportation costs and one of the few areas right spots Is electricity and I hope we'll have some questions to talk about how those things ought to be addressed the legislature spent two years coming up with a global warming solutions Act which was a exercise in planning how to deal with energy costs then it passed a Clean heat bill which lays out future planning on how to deal with electric energy costs But none of the actions necessary have taken place Hope also hope that some of the issues that mr. Clark has brought up in his his bro is mailing such as McDonald voted to increase heating taxes which is There was never a vote to increase heating taxes known in the legislature voted to increase heating taxes And there was just simply no such thing Well, I was surprised to read that and some of the other items that may come up here in the next few minutes. Thank you Who's doing the signaling on the time? Okay, then we will have to be talking at the audience and looking at you. Thank you Yeah Thank you very much. I'd like to start off by thanking you all for coming and for orca for making this available for those That could not come today. I'm Samantha the fave. I'm one of the two Current house representatives for Orange County District one for the towns of Chelsea Corinth Orange versher Washington and Williams Town I was assigned to the committee that was part of the redistricting that now makes Orange County District one Corinth Orange versher in Washington, and I'm very happy That we were able to meet the needs of some of the towns around us and their asks. I am a wife a mother I am a landlord. I work on the maternity unit in Burlington That's where I take care of people after baby you come in when your baby is two hours old and I take care of you Also, if you have any high risk, I am the assistant to the rector at Little Flock nursery in preschool And I also teach the one and two-year-olds there. I have a vast background of Problems that all Vermonters are facing and I have a true respect for all people that are here with different Maybe opinions or ideas what I have and I am proud to say that I am be able to bring things to the middle For people to be able to know that their voice is being heard I'm asking to be reelected to be able to continue to support Our rural voice and Montpelier Sometimes it's easy for some of the bigger numbers in the bigger population areas to get things that we don't get here And I do not let us get over sought I make sure that we get fair funding and I make sure that we do not get skipped over when it comes to projects like bridges roads culverts And paving I'm also on the select board in the town of Orange And I was a former EMT and firefighter and I grew up in excavation and logging I'm very very proud of what I do. I'm very proud of where I am from And I'm very lucky to be able to represent you folks in this room and I continue I'd like to continue to do that. Thank you Aren't you gonna do this stay rep candidates first, that's all right Thank you. Good afternoon everyone. I'm Carl Demiro. I live in Corinth and I've previously served in the house during the 2019-2020 biennium. I would like to serve as your state rep again To work on a number of different issues that face the state I think the biggest issue facing the state right now is the issue of workforce development. We need Teachers we need machinists. We need nurses. We need carpenters. We need police officers and men And many other folks in the state to fill the jobs that we have that are going left unfilled and We can't solve that problem without solving the issue of childcare in the state and without solving the issue of housing If we're ever going to get our workforce problems taken care of we got a deal also with childcare and housing Also want to work on moving our state's economy away from dependents on fossil fuels and moving towards the future economy which will not be much more based on Electricity and moving to update our electrical grid I'd also like to work on Being sure that we are always finding ways to make health care more affordable and accessible for all Vermonters and Right now. I'm also serving on the on the Corinth select board I also serve on the Clara Martin Center Board the Blake Memorial Trust Lake Memorial Library Trustees board in East current and I'm a longtime volunteer and board member at Northeast Slopes That's all right Thank you. I'm going to be brief because I lost a crown and every breath is exciting. I Mean, I didn't really lose it because I know where it is, but I don't think I want to use it after this anyway Anyway, I'm a born native of Vermont or born in Colchester, Vermont. I was educated at Rice High School in St. Michael's College. I graduated from St. Michael's and Went the went to the Vermont State Police they had an a barracks fairly close to St. Michael's College and I walked in there one day and Talked to some of the gentlemen on there and I decided being 20 years old 21 years old that it was far more exciting With a nice powerful car and a gun in a uniform as opposed to sitting in front of some snot notes kids So that's how I started with VSP and for the next 28 and a half years I stayed with her of my state police. I performed every job that they have from Trooper first-class all the way to commanders and stations commanding up to 27 people at one time I Was the head of a drug force both in In the state as well as in the federal government work for the DEA in Burlington We went all over New England did cases all over New England. I I Ran off with my captain's wife 47 years ago. We have two love two lovely kids. We still live in orange We ended up buying most of our family farm. My wife was a farmer for many many years here in the town of Orange And what I want most most of all would be to see a Community-type policing Whereby you will actually see a car in your community not just flashing through your community if you for instance Haven't got a contract that to me is despicable So that is going to be my emphasis It's going to be deliberate and it's going to have to deal with the contract issues So I'm very eager to talk to anybody they want to talk to about contract issues the problems we Experience with the contracts. I understand that they're They're necessary, but I think I think we can do something more along a cooperative system as opposed to individual towns and You know assessment of ours and whatever you so thank you very much. Thank you Good afternoon everyone and thank you for being here Sheriff for 15 years now in Orange County I'll continue to work with community leaders or legislators and citizens As role of sheriff I look for grants in this past two years we're able to obtain two grants one for about 98,000 for radios and Another one just recently we were approved for a hundred and fifteen thousand dollars to upgrade our dispatch center As many people may know or not know The state police are having a big issue with dispatching and we're looking to Pick up and expand our dispatching To help offset the cost of the county the county funds. I will also be working continue to work with the education of children and the public on Fentanyl on the opiate crisis that's going on in communities Fentanyl is as many you know, it's very deadly now. We have rainbow fentanyl. It's been entering the system It looks like skittles I'm going to continue to work, you know with all our partners in on state police fbi dea We're also going to continue to work with our schools civic groups churches On the on the addiction crisis it is huge and you know, we don't want to see People sitting in jail because they have an addiction. We want to get them help on making sure that those wraparound services are there in the last Two years many, you know, covid hit Having those local connections right here Actually in randolph with the glove company I worked with sam hooper. We were able to come up with some initial cloth masks So working with our community partners on a very serious issue We're able to continue our jobs. We didn't stop one one bit. We kept we kept providing law enforcement services during the height of covid Thank you Appreciate it. We're going to switch over to questions and we have one question for each team the First folks to go will be the senators and we'll start with mark mcdonald and then after he speaks john clark can speak Um, so the first question is please outline some actions or options that would improve or strengthen the local economy How to strengthen the local economy? Vermont spends one billion One in 1.45 billion dollars a year on fossil fuels for heating And on fossil fuels For operating motor vehicles And of that money Forgive me a hundred a billion point four five Dollars goes out of state And every time you purchase heating oil you purchase propane you purchase Natural gas that money goes out of state The the amount of money that goes out of state for heating that could be replaced with other heating sources Is staggering and it drains this state's economy Refitting people's heating systems with heat pumps with linais with Electric heat Is a job creator in this state? Producing electricity from solar and putting it to work To do functions that that fossil fuels use puts people to work in this state and generates jobs in our economy Weatherizing homes we put 90 million dollars aside to weatherize homes in the state of vermont to use less electricity less less fossil fuels We do not have the workforce To do that weatherization. So right now that money is going to colleges Trying to convert people to install Oil oil facilities Oil burners etc to switch over and participate in renewable stuff And that will also stimulate the state's economy. That's one example I'm sure several others will come up in the course of a discussion about Changes to our our fossil fuel use. Thank you. Thank you Just to repeat the question these outlines of actions or options that will improve or strengthen the local economy Well, that's a great question and mark. Thanks for highlighting the differences between how we view these I've studied economics for a long time and You help an economy by increasing production not increasing services and many of the things that my opponent is talking about Don't actually generate any real growth the short-term installation of Products does not create jobs other than short term sort of like Eb5 and jpeak, you know, it has short-term employment, but not long term Long-term employment in vermont could be farming production We are not meeting the demand for the out-of-state demand for our products, particularly meats It's not just about milk. There is a huge demand for local vermont brand names. We don't have enough processing facilities We could do more for distribution systems. We have a lot of young people who want to do it Why would they invest their trust fund or other money here when taxes are so high? So I propose a specific policy. I have 14 pages of what I call the farming manifesto I produced it two years ago How it is that we can take the ideas actually of a guy named wendell barry and apply them and stop making it Artificially impossible for local people to produce food. We are dependent on faraway food That's produced with large amounts of fossil fuels that I agree. We need to reduce the amount of use out Of toxic food from china from out west and the more those costs go up The more our local foods become competitive again and we should help those businesses and that's long-term growth Not just a blip while you install a heat pump Also as far as renewable energy and heat pumps and mark said at the outset that there was That the clean heat bill was passed. I don't believe it was maybe you misspoke But you did call for a tax on heating oil If we were to eliminate the taxes on not have a heating tax on oil to try to incentivize people who can't afford it Not incentivize people not to burn wood and eliminate the net metering program Which even the dpuc and many electric utilities agree has saddled vermanus with about 40 million dollars a year in extra electric rates To help other people buy e v cars and solar panels. That's regressive. That's not progressive If we put that money back in people's pockets, they can afford to live here Their kids can afford to live here. They can put it in the real economy supporting local businesses restaurants and others And and sorry, thanks. I could talk more I'm like I'm sure so thank you. I didn't see the signal. So you got to wave your arms more You'll know you have to wind it up in 15 20 seconds. I just don't like to interrupt you with speaking So I will I will go ahead and do that for you guys. So at least you know So for the house The question is how would you promote an increasing housing opportunities to address low income and middle income affordability new residents workforce and vulnerable populations And we'll start with carl demro Thanks, um, this is a huge problem in this state and as I mentioned before we're not going to get our workforce Issues taken care of if we don't deal with housing. We have a very powerful housing Agency in this state called the remont The remont house remont housing and conservation board and the Legislature is supposed to fund that board with 40 49 of the property transfer taxes that are generated in the state Unfortunately, the legislature over the past Period of time has used that money from the transfer tax To make the budget look balanced so that vhcb has not gotten its full full allocation for housing And that's a problem. That's a good reason A good chunk of why we are where we are today. We've under invested in housing With money that we should have been putting in from the property transfer tax to vhcb Now vhcb's programs are very good, but they tend to be geared more towards large developers And we need to have vhcb have a program that works with smaller Folks who are dealing with infill type developments in town and and community centers Perfect example that is jonah richard and fairly so he's developed an eight unit Three-story building next to chapmans that some of you may have seen He's a 30 year old guy very smart But there is no one else like jonah in this state and we need to be creating a program that is going to To to create more jonahs basically, but we're not going to get our housing problem solved If we're just focusing on large developments, we're going to only be doing those that work in bigger towns And we're not going to solve our housing issues without as I said dealing with infill type developments in smaller town centers and village centers And i'm going to repeat it because it's a bit of a question for samantha How would you promote an increase in housing opportunities to address low income and middle income affordability New residents workforce and vulnerable populations Thank you. Um, I Wholeheartedly agree that the workforce is where we got to start. Um building this from um, I went to essics tech Which is in the town of essics and I went to the career center there And when I was there there was a wait list for kids to go and unfortunately, that's not what it's looking like today We need to be able to encourage kids and students that they can go and that they can have a career And they can make a life for themselves and get them into the electrical the plumbing the craftsmanship We supported a part of the budget We gave 137 million dollars for workforce development and one of the most proud things for me when I was reading through that Was that we are inventing or setting up? A slaughtering and butchering apprenticeship down here at vtc to be able to bring some of these things back in But we also allocated 338 million dollars in the past two years into affordable housing and shelter space That's an estimate of 4,000 new housing units. My husband and myself Owned a business and we delivered bread Um the bread you'd see on the shelves. We sold that route In that time I did employ people and we bought another one with the money that I sold the route with I bought an abandoned house in berry city. We've been using our own two hands No grants to be able to bring that back up. So let's take an extra jobs and doing extra work And I go and I find people that would usually not be Eligible for housing due to their credit due to their past rental history And I give them an opportunity to have housing that they can be proud of and housing they can feel comfortable in I'm a strong supporter of being able to give people housing with dignity currently Before currently we're spending six to six Six and a half million dollars per month for people in hotels and that's not okay Number one that's cutting down on our tourism And it's not a sustainable place for these people to live. I believe that we need to be able to keep Making of options for people to be able to build and to create and recreate with things that we have here And to be able to create more options for people to have affordable housing that they are comfortable and confident in Thank you And um starting for the sheriff question What do you see is the role of the office of sheriff in orange county in relation to the towns and we'll start with bill bonyak The relations with with the sheriff with towns is you know building that Building that community base and working with you know, all the all the different towns all the different leaders with the select boards and You know with my with what george mentioned earlier about contracts I wish we didn't have contracts because each town is different Some towns have very small contracts and they're they're difficult sometimes to manage and When you call for a police service is you want someone to respond no matter what it is Whether it's a mailbox vandalism or some very serious um The contracts they vary They just give you an example for the town of randolph the village of randolph It's 17 hours a day seven days a week And then you take another town williams town. It's 30 hours a week other towns are anywhere from Eight to 10 hours a week and you have 168 hours in a week You know we try to Have one deputy take care of three towns or or four towns But that's basically a 40 hour 40 hours out of the week that's he's he's covering He could cover three towns so um We must look towards our legislators and look for a change and also look for other ways to fund These patrols so It's it's not an easy position For 15 years trying to work with different towns and right here in version we Right here in verse year. We have had an issue and It doesn't mean that we don't come into town We we have been in town here many times for many serious calls That's myself my captain and Other deputies who happen to be going through when there's an incident going on or if they're close by they respond so How do you see the role of the office of sheriff in orange county in relation to the towns george con toys? Well, the object of the game is uh protection and serve and When it comes to the contract unfortunately, we're a Size 44 are trying to stuff into a size 32 pair of pants We don't have enough people to maintain service Into the rest of the community Just in the last week we had two serious crimes right One of them within a thousand yards of the office and we couldn't supply an officer And it was ridiculous because I was five miles away on a contract And another contract He was over in thetford And on the contract I was on there were seven people standing in the middle of the road down here at 113 and you folks know What 113 has been for the last two years I couldn't leave for that because if I left and anything happened to any of those seven people, what would happen? We'd all be sued it would be a be a terrible tragedy. So there's got to be a way to get around these contracts There's got to be a way that that we can protect and serve There's got to be a way that we can do this financially And i'm suggesting that perhaps a cooperative between the existing towns might be the answer instead of individual towns trying to set up You know a contract now as far as verse year goes God we've had a lot of time in verse year, but I don't know as it was patrolling I've sat out here in verse year hour after hour after hour after hour On a contract that lasted two years with sometimes as late as 12 hours a day And that's a lot of money pouring into the department And my question is where is all that money and why can't we get additional people? Why can't we get different cars? I was I hate to go into this because I don't want I don't want to go into anything disparaging But the cruiser I was running It was unspectable had a rotten frame headlights out It was just terrible and I went to my supervisors repeatedly. So it's a money issue But I would like to look at a cooperative issue between all the towns splitting the county in half Work on it that way and I'm sure it can be done. I'm sure it can be done. Thank you So we have another round of questions for the three candidates before we go into the opening up for folks for the senate And we will start with john this time Please outline your approach to storm water and water quality management Where's all the select board people out there ditches? Well that's a sticky wicket You know at both the state and the local level A lot of it is about affordability The lake champlain waterhead watershed, which is one of the biggest problems was going to cost an estimated $340 million and those costs were being put on on a lot of businesses Who literally is going to put them out of business? And so I argue that that was an unjust taking of money from them These are businesses that have been operating for many decades particularly down in ruttland And so the money should be procured and there are federal dollars to do that Vermont has actually made a lot of great strides in agriculture Like with sequestering carbon and reducing Energy inputs Agriculture nationally that's the number one area where we can make a big difference and vermont has actually made great strides in that area Fewer strides perhaps have been made in new developments in some of some of our larger urban areas and so again an integrated approach that includes not only the Professionals the people who study water and water quality But also making it more workable and not simply saddling businesses and private citizens with costs. They don't have it has to be If we're talking about economics, it has to be doable and affordable And we've also had problems and I think I get a strong endorsement as a You know i'm a conservative, but i'm a conservationist and have been my whole life We have pfoas and other chemicals that have leached out of manufacturing industries. They need to be regulated One of the number one things we could do to protect health is to remove The contaminants in our water supply and in our food supply Which our pharmaceuticals and our food supply the stuff we ingest ends up also in our water system So a comprehensive approach actually would I come back to regenerative farming and more organic food again That I think we can supply to a lot of are you interrupting me now 20 seconds. That's a 20 second. All right That's good. That's what I asked you to do So, you know, we could do a lot of that to again bolster small farms We could be producing a lot more of these organic foods not to make it mandatory or just about organic locals better Than far away whether or not it's organic versus conventional But we can supply our hospitals our prisons our our armed forces our hot You know, uh, any how about the state house with locally produced foods and that may not sound That's it. That will immediately also address water quality issues. Thank you um Mark mcdonald, um Please outline your approach to storm water and water quality management storm water It rains a lot more and a lot heavier than it used to which means the current Practices and the current machinery doesn't do the job One of the things that has been done and the highway department here in Versa would know better than most is We are no longer Directing the highways to get water downhill as fast as possible Which means you've got to stop deep ditching. You can't shoot water down as fast as you can. You have to build Settlement places for the water to settle in go into the ground and not go downhill fast The cities which are getting bigger used to get Used to get federal revenue sharing to pay for Stormwater management the federal government no longer does that it stopped revenue sharing in the 80s It cut taxes at the top end for very wealthy people It brought tax rates from 90 at the marginal rate down to 37 And the federal government does not have money to help Towns cities the way it used to with storm water The the other problem we have with storm water is when it rains and the water goes into the city system It overwhelms the sewage treatment plants More storm water comes in in shorter periods of time as the climate produces rainfall at greater Greater amounts in a fewer number of hours Cities are trying to separate storm water From this type of water that goes in the gutters That usually would just go out in to be treated on soil it is expensive and As my opponent here mentions It's based on property taxes now property taxes pick up the cost of storm water So you've got a problem without a funding source and I would ask any one of the folks here. What is the funding source for storm water? requiring farmers to To till differently To do no till planting allows more water to be absorbed in corn fields in hay fields and in farm products That's one way to deal with reducing storm water from agriculture So we're going to move on to the house and start with Samantha Lefe Um, what steps would you take to support small town infrastructure going forward specifically roads and buildings? Thank you for that question. Um, so throughout my time being elected I have attended the select boards um for the for all the towns Um, and if I couldn't miss them if I couldn't attend them in person and I miss them I would review the minutes um or join remotely online Which is a very good blessing for people Um, I think of the six towns as my six children and it's important that I'm very active in all their lives And it's hard when you hear things come up That they didn't get the funding they anticipated It didn't make the budget and that's something that it's important When you are back in Montpelier, and I'm advocating for back home That that money is going to them and that they're getting with their promise and that they're getting what they've anticipated for the times to come Making it available for towns and small towns that do not have the best support for writing grants to get that And for us to be able to meet the towns where they're at coming out and doing site visits following up and being persistent Here in versier. Um, I'm not sure if there's people from I know people from out of town If you're not familiar they're trying to revamp their um their garage their state They're I mean their town garage and the salt shed the salt shed is currently sitting on the bank Which could easily go into the river. We don't want that So I have been very active with um your select board here and with the town to see what I can do to be able to make Sure that that funding comes through and that some of the struggles that they're facing due to regulatory Due to inspections and due to things that are just out of their control are not not Obtainable for the town to be able to get the resources it needs for the material and the equipment that you've already purchased and taken care of More things going forward is you know equitable funding even regardless of the population for towns Just because you don't hit a certain quota or just because your population isn't the same doesn't mean that the town residents are not Deserving of that same protection and funding for towns to go to be able to go forward um, and it's imperable that I speak and whoever represents this town speaks with the Town clerks and the select boards to see what they're at and what the best position We are in to be able to help them and again making sure that the voices here are not forgotten about and that we bring That money back home and make things um obtainable regardless of how big or small we are Thank you um, so Carl What steps would you take to support small town infrastructure going forward specifically roads and buildings? Thank you. Um, so one of the things that I think would be important is updating the town highway aid allocation That's one thing that hasn't happened in a long time and in a town like uh, first year where you've got about half the number of Residents as a town like Corinth, but more or less the same Amount of miles of town road It really adds to the town tax burden and I'd like to see the town a town highway aid allocations Updated I think that the legislature passed h518, which was a weatherization for a municipal building Bill this past biennium. That's a good step forward, but I'd like to see that that's sort of a program Continued and that that's going to be money for weatherization and fuel switching for municipal buildings Like like, uh, Samantha. I also worked with the town here back when the original town garage Location was up on Durgan Hill Worked with a and r on on that issue and and I know how frustrating that was for the town Worked with the select board came to select board meetings um, and also Stood in this in this room right here twice during town meetings to hear. What are you going to do about root 113? and I remember asking uh Asking steve ward. I said steve. You're probably not going to vote for me But what would you want me to do if I got elected? He said fix the road and uh, so So I became a squeaky wheel for that and I don't know that it made any difference or not But I really stayed on the folks at At Vermont agency of transportation about 113 and really impressed upon them that For most people in this community their daily drive on root 113 is their interaction with state government So I would take that same Same Sort of attitude towards serving in the legislature again So we'll go to sheriffs and start with george On toys identifying prioritize some effective strategies for keeping our community safe Well education is probably the most important aspect in the in that Uh, we know that for instance fentanyl has killed already 177 people this year alone in ramaa 177 If you if you even knew how many people were Uh, resuscitated with narcan it would it would just shock you And so if I mean if you're going to make a good communist you got to start right from the beginning you need to be you need to be Employing an officer in a school. You need to have classes That are geared towards You know drug Problems that you see everywhere and if you think that you haven't got a drug problem in versier You're probably wrong As I said, I worked for the drug enforce administration in burlington for a couple years We went all over the country, you know was I wasn't shocked You know after about six months to find out just what was out there I mean, we were buying kilograms kilograms 2.8 pounds of cocaine at a shot right here in vermont So that you know, where is all this coming from? Are our kids being indoctrinated by their fellow Students, you know, is there any way that we can get to them early on because if you don't get to them early on You're all done You know that as parents if you let your kids run wild if they're they're 12 You're not going to have much luck with them when they're 15 or 16 So you need to work. You need to have education need to have funding for that Uh, I there are grants and we've been fortunate enough in orange county to receive a couple of these grants in the past few years Lead for lead for one And you know, we had a person that was dedicated to that And and unfortunately that that is gone now But it it was a wonderful course and the kids loved it And these kids are going to grow up to be sitting in the same chair as you're in So it's your community you need to make these decisions early on and I appreciate your time thank you um bill bonyak Identify and prioritize some effective strategies for keeping our community safe Yes, the lead program. It's not dead. It is alive Yes, we lost one of our one of our people there. He moved on However, he's still he's still working teaching dare Not dare. I'm sorry lead. It's law enforcement against drugs. It's an evidence-based program that has Really taken over the lead the dare program in a lot of places in our country and they do focus on drugs alcohol bullying And violence which is you know, which is really important and Having that and we went from four schools. We're teaching them. We're 11 schools So even right here in west shire We want to continue that and uh One other thing just real quick. I know I'm going to run out of time here is that We must Keep everyone aware of this fentanyl It's not to get this rainbow fentanyl. They're pushing you now to throughout the country Over over 10 million pills there have been seized in the last week 10 million And you imagine how many got through so we hit and we need to wake up the public You know making sure our children are fully aware that these these aren't skittles. These are dangerous drugs and he will kill There's no doubt about it You say where it's where it's coming from right now the cartel out of mexico is the number one provider of fentanyl in this country The other thing i'm going to back up backtrack a little bit is that We have 15 vehicles in our fleet And at 15 we do have what they call line cars and that's what George was talking about. We don't put those on patrol. We use them for doing traffic control so 14 of those vehicles aren't they're not paid by any taxpayer money period they come from These traffic control details we do so that's where a lot of the money is going and you think about a $50,000 for a vehicle today And currently we get we cannot purchase a dodge vehicle until after the first of the year on a commercial program So we want to switch over to audience questions Please raise your hand and be recognized by the moderator We'd appreciate if you'd state your name first name or first and last and your town because there are people from several towns around Ask your question briefly worded toward both candidates as opposed to an individual person And we're going to try and balance the questions so they don't go to all to one particular race house senator sheriff Who'd like to start? Michael tag levier from Corinth Either house or senate candidates who I would like to answer For years, we were told that forest products were renewables And we're hearing now all of a sudden that everybody needs to switch over to electric I live off grid in Corinth. Um, what are you going to do about my wood stove? I heat primarily with wood you're going to outlaw my wood stove and also I enjoy walking through the woods with a sugar maker in the spring Are you going to tell the sugar maker that he can't use either oil or wood to make his maple syrup? And are you going to try to put that industry out of business? We'll start with the house and Thank you, Mike, uh, I'm also a sugar maker and I also eat the wood I harvest wood off of our property take my tractor up in the woods fell the trees pull it down Let's get it out the bucket Split it and that's the way we get most of our heat Here in this part of orange county We will sometimes encounter bills that are from Other parts of the state that may not take into account the way that we live rurally And I'm not afraid against voting against those bills I did vote for to remove the two cent tax on off-road diesel a few years ago when I was in the house because Off-road diesel was being pegged at that point as a heating fuel, which it isn't our loggers our excavators Our farmers depend on that fuel for their livelihood I'm I'm Not going to take away your wood heat. I'm not interested in doing that I am however interested in finding a way to transition much of our Economy away from fossil fuels And whether there are ways to do that I'm all for that but another example is the rigate plant The rigate plant needs to stay open it needs to stay open so that we have a market For low quality wood in the state And we keep our foresters and our loggers Employed and as long as they've got a market for low quality wood they can grow higher quality stems And we'll have a vibrant Forest products industry in this state But once that market goes away for low quality wood There's no longer any incentive To weed out the poor stems in the forest And then we end up with a less less high quality product available to the forest products industry Thank you Thanks for the question Thanks mic for coming out. Um, so I I um, I do not want to take away wood heat I do not want to mandate or force or take away anything from anybody I believe if you can afford to make the switch and you'd like to have You know a reimbursement a rebate if there's something to incentivize you and that you are in that position to do that Then I will fully support you in what you'd like to do But I believe that the government should not be telling you how to what how to heat your home What to do and where you're at and I know that this winter is going to be very scary for many people And I do hope that there are resources out here for people to be able to heat their homes. However, they need to stay alive It's something that's very serious. Um, and that I do I do understand that while sometimes it is Hard once you are in Montpelier to be able to vote how you would like I do appreciate the liberty that I have that I'm not told how to vote I do what you guys ask me to do. I'm not Hard armed by my party. I have the liberty to do it as I was like with no No hardbacks on me Um, I have um, I heat my home with wood also My oil tank currently is below a quarter. I cannot afford to fill it up I am making sure that my tenants have the heat in their home first I do support that um, I did vote to and I um argued on our house floor for us to keep Bragg gate open and to make it more accessible for them And to not shut them down So that way they can take the lesser quality wood to be able to heat and also in Burlington where they use wood chips We need to be able to be supporting our loggers. It is an industry And it is something that keeps us going Anything that you see and anything we do we need to be able to be able to process process more of that here And that's how we can also cut down on some of our climate Changes that we're having is by processing more here bringing back our mills Bringing back us being able to harvest and you know, make our own timber here. Um, those rough cut boards, um, you know Shutdown so many of those areas that people have now had to ship their wood out of state And we need to keep that wood here and we need to um, be supporting that industry Our question just for my policy Well mark mckay And I wonder and this is a question for both the house People and the senators and a yes and no answer will shoot me The first is do you think the 2020 election was fair And that we have joe biden as a duly elected president The second part of that is do you believe in the separation? church and state And we went through that as if you expound it's fine up to you And we'll start with mark mckay I believe Joe Biden was a elected president who was a legitimate president And I believe in the separation of church and state It's a constitution and I just wanted to uphold that So I certainly believe as an attorney Uh, I graduated near the top of my class at uconn not hearing move on to law school I think it's a unique distinction of our country and I very much separate I agree with the constitutional principles of separation in church and state I have been disturbed about our elections The the weaponization and polarization on both sides I don't think that those seeking sensible voter ids are out to exclude anyone We do have voter fraud as I've documented. We've had some voter fraud right here in vermont as far as nationally I certainly do hope that we have integrity in our system I'm certainly running in one in which I hope that I can trust my secretary of state and otherwise But if you haven't seen the documentary 2000 mules I suggest you look at it Polls show that a majority of democrats who watch it recommend that other democrats watch it It raises some very disturbing questions Not about a government conspiracy to influence the election at all but about private interests who did apparently commit fraud And that as an attorney and looking at the evidence. I hope it's not true But I have concerns about how we're going to safeguard elections going forward Oh, no, I I don't say that I I think that there there are attacks on election integrity that should concern all of us And I and I wouldn't say it is a yes or a no Um, I have trusted the election results. I'm not going to do anything to change them here in vermont nationally anymore And I'm going to fix inflation, but I do think that this is a middle road to both protect people's rights and and and prohibit ballot harvesting which people have done and are doing in this state and Getting votes from people who are not qualified to vote So I I do think that there's a balance in the middle that we should strike for both nationally and locally I'm curious though It's a yes or no question that was asked. It's it may be not an option. I mean, I want people to look at the facts The candidates respond how the candidates wish to respond Is there a question before you move on for the sheriff's race just to keep things balanced So I'm at 11 Berger My question is around mental illness And how mental illness contributes to criminal behavior and I'm curious what the candidates would Like to do about supporting mental illness and resources for that in our community because I see that as a huge Issue that law enforcement could be more important. Thank you. I'm starting the bill No, you're absolutely right. There is a correlation and we deal with the homeless on a daily basis Um That's where we We tried to help right from the very beginning. We go to a call. We're calling ahead For car martin center depends where we're at If it's in the williams town area, we're calling someone out of the barrier area but we It's it's here. We're dealing with it every day every day We're dealing with some sort of mental health crisis And one of the one of the areas we we normally get called to is actually um hospital I'm here for a medical center When a person gets It's out of control. We we're there to calm the person down. That's what we do We calm the person down. We don't we don't go in to try to escalate it We want to just diffuse the situation and talk if it takes an hour to talk to somebody. That's what we're going to do Well, we have training on on mental health. That's available to all the deputies, but My first station was in middle sex and we had the waterbury state hospital in the backyard and so I learned a very very very long time ago that mental health problems become community problems And we had people that would walk away from the hospital people to go up on the interstate Without clothes You know, you have to be Loving and kind you you can't be bullish with these people and we do use all the facilities that we can Normally we would take them to a hospital if if it's obvious a mental if you have a real mental problem. That's obvious Uh, it's probably easiest to head to the hospital and one of the workers from mental health will meet you there and Physician there can help you out. That's that's fairly common but Mental problems are any there are anywares and everywares Even on a car stop sometimes, you know people will be just live it and and you know being calm and realize that maybe they're not, you know I shouldn't say both ores in the water, but you know, they're they're mentally ill and you have to treat them with You know kind hands with ginger hands And you can usually resolve the problem right there without having to take anybody anywhere But there are those folks that you just absolutely have to Get them to the hospital and get them treatment Thank you Thank you That does not mean that I um Do not support uh people's rights as I said I work on the maternity unit in Burlington I think the language is not going to get us where we're going to go and quite frankly It's going to turn the decisions of what folks are doing to the courts Which is exactly what just came back from rovers' ways even though it came back down to the state level This is going to make anything that is not clear go to the court's decision and that's not where it should be Um, I understand that there are some times that a pregnancy needs to end I do not believe that abortion Should be a form of birth control But I do understand and respect that sometimes people are put in positions That that baby That that life Can not survive and I do not think that taking that access or right away. I do not believe in Not allowing abortions across our state I'm seeing people come in all the time and the fear in their eyes You retreat you where you're at if you've been through that and you've had to make that decision I do not support late term abortions But I also do understand That sometimes as I said the things things occur Um, I voted no on the language really because I do not support the language that there is vague abortion is nowhere in that language That word abortions nowhere there. It's more about Um other things that cannot be answered I sat through some the all the public hearings for that during my time in the session I went in when they had held the public hearings Um, and there's many questions that came up to that committee as well that could not be answered They said the courts would decide no like this is this is us and people should be deciding Um, and so to me, it's a very hard. I'm a hard line to go Um, you know, I've sat with women that I've made that decision and I've cared for them and their families Um, and I've sat with people who have wanted a baby so long and the baby, you know Just the last night we had a fetal demise. Um, and you sit with them as they're holding their baby Um, it's a very it's a very hard topic. Um, but people deserve to be loved through it all Thank you, um A few things on this one, uh, I voted for proposition five when I was in the legislature I also Cosponsored and voted for h 57, which was the bill that gave women in this state the right to an abortion Um, I am going to vote for article 22 when it comes up on my ballot and I'm going to vote for it because The supreme court in june Decided that women are second-class citizens in this country whose rights can be decided upon by the states And I want to be sure That this state gets this right. I disagree with Samantha about the language In the article the language in the article Creates a very high bar for the state to infringe on a woman's rights and Uh If I am elected as your representative, I will continue to steadfastly Protect the woman's right to make her own reproductive health care decisions and in a concert with her doctor And I also want to say that Of the two of us in this house race. I am the only one That is endorsed by planned parenthood of Vermont. That's correct. I am not I will not seek that endorsement Another question I just want to know your positions on Social justice and equity restitution and critical race theory Senate, um, did you guys hear that question Lana? Okay, I'm going to start with the senate and it would be john clarkers Could we you repeat the question, please go ahead? Yeah, I want to know your positions on Um Social justice and equity restitution And um, what was the other? critical That's a common question. You could add a few more items there I've been very outspoken. I'm an mlk guy. I believe in equality And equity as thomas sol has written very extensively and I highly recommend him. He's a brilliant man Equity is always advanced at the expense of equality and it creates new inequities Critical race theory is martin luther king upside down and it says that we should judge people based on their skin color instead of their their character And uh, we see that resulting in new inequities all the time and verminers have seen that in vermin Where money under covet was distributed to sole proprietors ships who were by pock, but not people who were white Um, I'm attacked as a racist for questioning it But I believe in free speech and that we need to have really important discussions about such launches into ideological fantasies That are not supported by the facts I oppose talking calling all of our police racist for arresting people who are of color When in fact the drugs are coming from the inner cities where I used to practice criminal defense law On behalf of gang members and blacks and Hispanics who were my clients who I completely gave all of the rights to And my son from my first marriage is 20 percent nigerian and was actually called racial epithets That doesn't mean the system is racist vermont has a tremendous history Of abolitionism and fighting against racism. We voted for obama in the highest numbers in this country And we elected the only black man in the country to our legislature prior to To the civil war, so I don't deny that there is racism But I don't believe that the answer To racial disparities is either to assume that all racial disparities are due to white people being hateful Or that government is going to implement new racial Measuring sticks and new discrimination against white people to somehow make it better. It creates resentment. It creates division And it's highly inequitable It actually is counterproductive. So that's my very I've written a lot about it And I continue to study and I got an a in social justice in law school And I've studied this extensively in the urban problem in undergrad Critical race theory is a of course. It's taught that examines how laws in the past have discriminated against black people so I I honestly I don't understand the question. I know we have issues with race that we Continue to treat people of color differently than white people are treated When we do it we feel bad about it and think it ought to stop and It continues If you look at people who were pulled over It I'm not me if you look at the state police looking at its own practices It says my goodness we pull over people of color more often than we pull over white folks um And yes, why and um, they can't come up with any reason they Weren't driving any faster or doing anything any different, but that's what they do And that's a problem that um, we have to resolve among you know and And and bring to an end And we haven't figured out how to do it yet So I don't It makes us feel uncomfortable when we're reminded that that's what we do And I say we as a society. That's what we do and um We ought to stop if we haven't figured out how to do it yet I'd rather take some questions and then okay that one's a later. Thank you for asking So welcome Hi, I'm chair of down the little year her share and um One of the things that I find very Inserting is the lack of portable housing and the cost of property taxes and I'm wondering if there has been a Current use was put into action 40 years ago to keep Large spaces of Vermont green But has there been any consideration in changing that just a little bit so that there are decent parcels of land to be purchased Such as the example of the town of versier bought a piece of land that was not developable for our town purposes. So um As a person looking to downsize I can't find anything to build For myself a decent piece of land. So how are Um Developers like that small developer and fairly going to find decent property to build affordable housing for for for folks down the road and is there um Is there a potential of looking at current use for maybe not necessarily to Maybe care off a you know a small parcel of land without having the huge tax benefit the tax penalty Or putting in a clause about people get that benefit if they're truly using their land for farming purposes Rather than people who come up and buy land and put it in current use and not have to pay As much taxes as I do for my house and my five acres of land Um, so we'll start with the house and so this is specific to affordable housing and current use and Really interesting question The current use program was created to Provide tax breaks to people who kept their land In use for forestry or farming And there are requirements that come with getting that tax break for example If you do have your land in forestry, uh, you need to have a forestry plan for it and the forestry plan must require Harvests from time to time. So it that's a current it's a currently a forest use if it's in farming it must be producing crops or um Or doing something of agricultural value to the state economy. So the the purpose of the program is to generate uh economic activity Your question about housing I I think is a is a really interesting one and and the the current use program changed a little bit this past biannium where A uh a provision was made that a certain amount of land within a certain Size piece and I don't I don't know the exact numbers Could be set aside as sort of a forest reserve sort of a bio reserve that also sequestered carbon in in trees I think that The housing problem is not necessarily going to be solved out here in our communities, but I think that's an interesting question and I think it's a question that I'd be willing to look at if I was in the legislature and and uh, whether it's a matter of changing Adding additional two acre two acre plots that could be taken out for Housing without paying the the full penalty or only a portion of the penalty That's I think that's an idea Worth considering because we it's got to be all hands on deck for this housing issue Thank you Thank you for the question Part of what mr. Demerill was referring to that we did in the house with h697 the use value appraisal program um And it was talking about reserve forest land and I wanted to veto that I did not Support where that was going. It was wanted to go towards Having old forest And not that we shouldn't preserve um, but a little background if if a tree is up It's doing the best that we can to be able to absorb in And it holds if you cut it it holds if a tree falls on its own it releases everything that is had inside of it The exact opposite we want I don't want to drive around looking like You know swamp lands out here. We have beautiful forest We should be planting more trees and it that's how it should be I do agree that there's too much regulation and that the needs is not a cook You know a cookie cutter fits all we have people that are in different situations Um, and I do believe how you enrolled you should be act You know talking with your forester and if there's if you are in the situation yourself That is a job that I can also help you with the looking out options and what you can do and to help You know connect those dots um and that is something as your representative um that I take serious is reaching Is communicating with residents i'm inconsituents about any problems that they're facing where they feel like the state Maybe really isn't here in their side of the story But I do not think that we need to be as regulatory as we are and that we're now are pushing ourselves in a corner that We can't back ourselves out of we're saying that we need this and we do need help and we do need housing We do need more places for people to come we need more people here We have more jobs than we have workers for But we also need to be supporting our workforces and supporting our local businesses and protecting ourselves here more But I think that was a great question And I do support where your question is coming from and if you have any need any help after please let me know So I just heard you guys talking about fentanyl lead And how those go hand in hand I have a 10 year old child in west shire and I've heard Here say and I don't know how true it is and I hope you guys maybe midfail can Name on it um that the lead program will be removed from west shire it seems like That we should be having a lead program and you're talking about the program as well continuing so how does Discontinuing a program in a school at that age level appropriate The majority of my work has been lately contract work, so it's difficult for me to be able to answer that except Previously we we did have a an officer that was working with lead And that was his primary his primary job. He was doing a great job at it and he's he's moved on So as far as I know There hasn't been there hasn't been much done I'm not sure if the schools are being Serviced with with a lead program at least I've heard I haven't heard anybody talk about it. I walk in the office continually and I I see boxes of Of material that's supposed to be I assume disseminated to the kids You know helmets for their bicycles and stuff like that, but I don't see the box dwindling So I'm not sure that they're actually doing anything with lead, but we certainly need a lead officer But where are you going to get a lead officer? You're going to take a guy offline to have him work in the schools when you haven't got enough people for protect and serve You know it takes a special type of person to be with kids all day long Or even for a two hour class or whatever But as I said if you don't reach them early on you're not going to reach them So that's a that's a really that's a a viable program We need it. I just don't know how you could do it I unfortunately don't have any access to the financial aspects of the department. I'm kind of like a mushroom I don't I don't hear much. I don't talk to our accountant I don't talk to the sheriff about how he spends his money. That's that's I'm just not privy to that information So it's hard for me to understand. Do we have an officer or don't we have an officer or can we get an officer? You know, I I have no idea. I have no idea how we're going to solve that Thank you How's that? Perfect, thank you. Welcome Yes, we we have more than one lead officer. We have there's three three all together and First off we we got to get the schools to be on board because of the principal or superintendent doesn't want it. It's not going to happen Um, that's where you know parents you like yourself You want to you want this program in the school? You have to you know talk to the teachers? We primarily try to do 5th grade two years before they go into 7th. So before to hit that junior high school So 5th grade is a target area Um The lead program we we were trying to do it on the cops program. It's a federal grant. It's a four-year program and the officer George was talking about Ken first names Ken He he was doing it for more than four years Actually, he was doing about almost almost eight years total but You know we're we got the cops grant. We're we're working on it again. We're going to bring it It's approved. We just got to get it back. I don't know if you're not familiar with the federal federal grant system It's a little complicated Because it's it's all No paper. It's all everything done on the internet and we've been having Um, if anybody deals with the federal government there's issues. So we're going to bring the cops program It'll it'll be back. We're able to do a 40 hour a week position where that's a community officer The helmets that george is talking about we have been giving those out on a routine basis. We do bike rodeos throughout the county and Just recently we we have a facebook page up. It's been on the facebook page and we've been Handing out quite a few bicycle helmets in the county Go back to the uh critical race theory Number one as a person of color in uh, vermont And mr. Clark was saying well, you know, we're better off in vermont and I can tell you if you're not black you don't know that Because I you know when people tell me I tell them the problems that I have had with people trashing my house And leaving junk In front of my driveway You know That's vermont. That's the wishful part of the united states and that problem still exists and it's deep And you know, I love being in vermont. I think my first your right friends will tell you i'm involved I'm engaged and uh, I plan to do more voluntary by the way But there is a problem and the critical race theory is nothing more than telling the history of bipop people That's all it is and I've been in living in vermont since 96. I still call myself the perpetual tourist Because everybody asks me where I live When i'm here or are you shopping and there's a question. Yes, there is a question Yeah, and you know me So, uh, you know, let's get that straight right now critical race theory is enough and it's not even taught in elementary school It's been blown way out of proportion. I have seen the woman who wrote the book Well, and if you talk to her and read that book like he recommended the documentary You will learn a lot more. My question is I have gotten stopped by one policeman in uh by the orange county sheriff And after that stop, I said, I'll never go to that office again Because I have not been treated that rudely since I was stationed in texas. I am a retired air force officer. I taught Uh First grade overseas for 16 years and I have consciously made I traveled the world and many places I constantly Uh consciously made versure my town I want to know what's going on with Training people for diversity. I know about fentanyl. I don't have that problem Which I I I did teach school but I don't have any children But I am black. I am in a white stick and I want to know what's being done on that level You know that I don't even feel safe in my own own house anymore Especially since the trump ever I'm gonna direct the question about that to the sheriff's and we'll see whoever you want Thank you Yes If I can't change the past so if that happens again You know anyone in the room you got a problem with one of the deputies live me now We we want to know about this and we do We do teach the deputies diversity and actually we Myself and a few other a few other deputies on The other side of the county we we've been working with our local They're part of the NAACP. It's called for It's focused on racial equality So we've been we've been working with the group over there When we had a protest That happened in Randolph village We had no issues whatsoever We were right up front. We we offered our assistance to help them if any roads closed whatever they needed But you know, I hear you I'm glad to hear that Also No, my next question is how much diversity training do they have and how often It's usually once a year For anywhere from two to four hours. Thank you Well, everybody had to take a diversity class I forget how many hours it was, but it was at least six hours within the last year And it was a very good class it was taught by a UVM instructor. She was uh, I think she was from chili Or simply she was She was a terrific gal and it was enlightening for a lot of people Especially the older folks the older troopers and the older deputies, uh, you know, I say older, you know people in the 50s or whatever I'm careful here But, um There is training and Everybody that I know is sensitive They're very sensitive to the issue And if anybody if I was a supervisor at the time and I've been a supervisor for a long time with the vsp And if anybody walked into the office or wrote a written complaint on an officer that did anything as crazy as what you're talking about We would have a long discussion Very long discussion Uh, I mean at least when I was in the vsp we worked under, uh, uh, us marine corps Uh, you know regiment and nobody asked you You were told and if you didn't do it you had a problem and that's the way it should be And bill was right you need to if you have a complaint you need to Vocalize it otherwise. We don't know people put garbage in your yard We pondered around played in the garbage before and we'll play in the garbage again to figure out who owns it They'll get that back plus a little bit of paperwork with it It's it's it's something that we're doing believe me. I don't know. I don't know how you fell through the cracks And if you did I apologize personally Well Sometimes sometimes the dispatcher can be cranky. I'll agree with that and sure bill will too Uh, if you experience that cranky that once again, you need to hold somebody Supervisor so that we can recognize Thank you No Burnstone verse here Um, you say that you don't have you're you're down officer that teaches this leaves Lee Lee, um, why does it have to be an officer? Why can't it be somebody that's that's trained to do this? I'm well, I'm actually going to start with George and let him respond to the questions because that's how we're doing this Well, it's a good question. I'm not sure I can answer it properly perhaps bill can but I'll take a shot at it anyway Um I'm not too certain that you have to be a law enforcement officer to be in the league I know they employ a lot of civilian people because they have a website and having a civilian on board is is uh It's certainly not a detriment. I don't see any reason. In fact, in fact, uh, you know, some people School board members or or parents Don't really want an officer in the in the schools and and that may be kind of shocking to you But I I know of one school where they were they were very displeased because an officer went in to do something I don't know what it was but uh He was he was fully dressed in uniform with a firearm And the uh, and the child came home and said that he was disturbed by the fact that the law law enforcement officer had a firearm And I guess the parent agreed because there was a complaint So I really caught between a rock and a hard place a civilian may may function quite well under those circumstances I don't know I don't know Yes, it could be a civilian absolutely Um, we would we would screen the person make sure it's the right person's right temperament to go into the schools and uh, we would Before they go in they got to be certified by the lead program. But yes, a civilian could teach the program Are you leaning towards that as trying to find A person to do that? If I have to I will You know right now like I said we got two other care instructors or lead instructors We recently dare as a care instructor for 10 years but the lead program as uh So the lead program In my eyes has taken over the dare program 110 percent So, you know, we'll make sure that You know We get whether it's a deputy or a civilian into the schools The lead program will be moving forward. Absolutely Hello, Justin will for sure. Um, it's going to go to a house or a senate. Does it matter on your account? Um, it's probably going to go to the senate, but it depends on your question. Great. I think it works for both So I'll direct it toward you gentlemen Um, given all these crises that we're talking about about their compounding I mean you got the fentanyl in the schools the racism in the streets Not to mention inflation and the pandemic It's it's not an exaggeration to say it's a scary time to bring kids into the into the world But it's a long-term trend in vermont is that population was declining And cove it seemed to be a little bit of a bump where me and a lot of other millennials moved here But we're only going to bring down the average age of the state for a little bit But we need our new verminers. So what policies can you enact from the senate or what laws that can help? boost the uh, the local newborn vermont our population And we're going to start with more well I've been going going around for year after year doing this And two years ago when I went door to door What I learned was that there were people moving from the usual places, massachusetts, new york, connecticut and rhoda island Coming here to vermont because of cove it That's why they came here They didn't come here because we had a state program. They came here because this was a good place to live During cove it and we were getting more broadband access. So it made it possible to work here I've worked hard on broadband and helped pass a couple of laws that made ec5 were a viable entity and got World-class service to people's homes. That's my plug on this one That's one of the things we do But people were coming here because of cove it This year I've been out and trying to understand the new towns that I I'm running for office in like bradford. So I've been pushy. I said, well, how long have you lived here? Where'd you come from and I've been astounded absolutely astounded to hear california washington state utah colorado not the usual suspects And why are you coming here fires? fires fires No, arizona The dam is almost out of water We're going to sell our house now while we can get some money for it and we're coming here to vermont. Why? Well, vermont's been ranked as one of the best states to live in And with in the global warming Atmosphere, this is the place to arrive I went knocking on doors on route five five houses in a row We're for west of mississippi that we're climate climate refugees now That's why they're coming here and that was new to me and I think it's Vermonters are picking up on this now, but the consequences the consequences the We had the housing commissioner in talking about housing and growth of housing and She said, you know vermont's incomes have gone up 16 percent in the last two to two years But the cost of housing has gone up 29 percent So the income isn't covering it So I welcome the question because we're dealing with it a lot and you're actually hitting a couple of different issues one is about young people the other is about flatlanders And I try to bridge that divide because I was conceived in vermont and born in canada kit So I don't know when flatlander begins But I've been called flatlanders and I went as a kid and I embrace people who move here who share our values And you know, we don't need a nativism You know exclusivity of people But I've hit on the farming I'll hit on again We hear about how we import 1.5 billion dollars worth of energy when I guess the solution is to buy billions of dollars worth of Products manufactured in china solar panels and e-v cars. There aren't many that's not how you grow an economy If we what I'm finding is intriguing is that we have a lot of young people Maybe thousands moving here who want to raise sheep and pigs and other animals. I mean, they're really out there Um Well, there are a lot of other young people moving here who work off their laptops and a whole change in the economy And they want to buy local foods that are grass-fed that are free of chemicals for their children We also have someone mentioned current use current use is now being abused in a way Hedge funds and others take advantage of it to actually tie land up that it so it can't be used for farming And sequestering carbon in trees is really not very helpful grasslands sequester more carbon So we need more farmland we the the worst that field prices get And they are limited resources and they will only go higher with or without the ongoing inflation And fertilizer prices have tripled in the last two years for all that's going to filter through the food prices Young people want to move here not because they get off for 10 grand But because they want to raise their children in a clean environment and we need both sides but also the um The real estate taxes are very high and that's very high for all of us And that's in part because they're regressive because they put our education costs On real estate that's not that's not helpful and we're closing schools Under the second when adjusted for income the second highest school costs in the country Well, nobody wants to move to Chelsea if they have to bust their kids an hour to go to school So when you lose your local schools and we lost like 30 of our students then you're you're not supporting Young people so we need to bring everybody together at the table to grow the real economy Not grow the government which siphons off wealth and makes it harder and harder for young people to live here This relates to the dean of Du Bois current relates to global warming and um, i'm glad that vermont is part of The global warming solutions act And i wanted to know about Divesting from fossil fuels in the pension system and smith i believe you've been involved with the pension things So maybe carl would like to add to that We'll we'll start with house and samantha's up first Yeah, so i proposed a pension plan to my committee. I am on house government operations where we oversee pensions elections Charter changes. Um, we oversaw some of the election law and we also um were as part of another Um Constitution change that will be on your ballot about removing slavery from our From our constitution and I voted yes for that for that record part as well And so I I supported a pension plan. Um, I promoted that would allow the The person holding the plan to be able to make a decision what they would like to do with their plan And that for me going forward is that our pension plan is still hemorrhaging It's not okay. It's it's still in a really bad place and teachers and state employees for your corrections officers your highway personnel and your teachers They're all For got something taken away from them. They were promised. They either have to work longer They're making less. They have a higher cola and that's not acceptable You took a job and you knew what you're going to be paid and that's what you should be getting I did when my proposal came forward. It was anybody coming in would have a new system that they could choose You know, they could have a defined contribution plan Which they can allow them to choose an annuity a safe harbor You can make the choice of where your money is being invested because right now the state's doing that for you They're picking where it goes and they're deciding so right now if I am a state employee I would be doing the same thing and they'd be managing it with someone that's about to retire That's not okay I should be more aggressive and they should be more safe because they need to be able to have that when they retire So I fully support that someone in the pension plan should be able to make their own decision And that did not move forward the governor took my plan that I wanted and he said that's what he wanted And he vetoed the pension plan that we had and I did not support the veto I just went with what we had because it was a step in the right direction And it was very hard going against my own proposal But I did for the better of Vermont to be able to go forward But we did have four hours also for that of community hearings That I was proud to be a part of but I agreed that you should be able to choose How your money is invested and what is supporting we shouldn't be doing that for you Um Thanks for the question dina I I this is not a subject that I am well versed on at all I know that there was some Question about this And this is something that the treasurer needs to be involved in and the organizations that deal with the pension funds But I you know, I would support looking at it. I don't I don't know Uh What the ins and outs of ins and outs of it would be? Um, but I would support looking at it and I would support Talking with the treasurer next treasurer about How we move forward to to do some of that And I want to get back to mark's question mark yes I believe that joe biden was legally and lawfully elected president of the united states And I'd also believe in the separation of church and state in the back When this gentleman was talking about What's running for his house? This is mislead favor You said that the government should not be telling you how to eat your own I agree 100 percent I also think that the government should not tell the woman Who they can or cannot do to their body? and He was kind of sidestepped when this question has been brought up Can you see your question directed to the candidates and not to one person? Okay, can everybody on this board tell me yes or no? codify roby wed I'm not sure. I don't understand the question. Can you just re ask it? roby wed Caught by it. There's been talk about quantifying it. So it becomes forever You don't you mean make it law? Yes, you're asking to make roby wed. Yes law. Okay. Um, just I want to make sure Everybody yes, so I'm going to give this to the senate and we'll start with john So that's a really intriguing question and thank you for asking In fact, I was controversial in the republican party statewide meeting this year when someone tried to introduce an amendment The requiring that all republicans oppose abortion from conception And I stood up. I didn't go there to speak but I stood up and I said are you trying to eject me from this party? We have no business trying to do such a thing. What's intriguing about rovers is wade is that its repeal did not Packed from honors. We have the aforementioned laws here Protecting the right of a woman to have an abortion up until delivery Even though 90 percent of americans oppose late term abortions and 72 percent in a recent poll oppose abortions after 15 weeks France bans it after 20 weeks Ruth bader ginsburg foretold the dobs decision very insightfully if you read it, it sounds like Ruth bader ginsburg So what's intriguing about that is that roe recognized fetal personhood and viability And vermont does not have a law protecting a pregnant woman whose child is killed by an assailant Or a drunk driver and it doesn't seem that that's very balanced So codifying roe versus wade would actually put it back in the middle And I think you're also talking about whether we'd be done on a state level in in vermont We're not going to lose a woman's right to commit an abortion The question is whether and and samantha's right proposal five is very broad language But existing laws fully protect that there's no question There's no push by any significant number of people trying to take away those rights So codifying roe versus wade would actually Resurrect the issue although casey took that away of fetal personhood Which I think that's the balance that most americans speak to And and so and actually this brings back to something mark said is that there's no red blue divide In vermont's legislature. That's because there's no red. There are only six republican senators. I believe So, you know You know and and back to your thing. I mean i'm the young guy No, I don't want to be guilty of ageism here, but i'm like, you know, i'm the young guy So I've actually been very outspoken that I have no intention In fact that nobody has business running in vermont If they were to try to ban abortion from conception whatever our personal views would be But similarly on the other side of framing of a vast majority of vermonters don't support late term abortions roe versus wade Cut that baby in half from a solomonian perspective Oh, I can speak sorry. Yeah, please. Yeah, you can have the rest of my time I won't live that long enough Well, then I I guess I don't need to Sorry, I do hope you do thank I do hope you do Um, the question is about roe versus wade being put into law The vote that vermonters have before them on november is to put What is close to roe versus wade into the constitution? and to say that Laws will not be turned on and turned off On a woman's right to make decisions for herself Um This state does a terrific job of working together Solving problems having to do with bread and butter issues having to do with in the legislature We have problems when we have cultural wars Introduced into campaigns And we don't we don't usually do that in vermont the last time we did that was Was civil unions and um That was a remarkably respectful period of time in the legislature among the citizens who had serious concerns And were worried That terrible things were going to happen and that cultural war was resolved after Civil unions passed and marriage passed and all the dire consequences that we That people were afraid of didn't happen Yeah, so The constitutional amendment before you on november for the citizens of the state of vermont to decide is Shall government tell women what to do? When it comes to their health concerns or will be women be free to follow their conscience their religious teachings their doctors advice Or their families counsel and then make a decision for themselves That's all it does and it's high time that it happened Any other okay, I wanted to make sure I get everybody else before I went back to shorty I just like to deepen this question of um We only have a few minutes left so I just want to deepen this question and ask a question Which is I would like to read the one sentence of article 22 of personal reproductive liberty That an individual right to personal reproductive autonomy Is central to the liberty and dignity To determine one's own life course And shall not be denied or infringed that sounds really good unless Justified by a compelling state interest Achieved by the least restrictive means This to me seems pretty ambiguous and I wonder if that last phrase excuse me Uh, uh, Justified by a compelling state interest achieved by the least restrictive means Is in an ambiguous enough to actually take away The very guarantee of reproductive autonomy That's it Um so that we can finish on time I'm going to ask you guys to keep your answers to just one minute if you could And it'll be the house and it would be Carl first Barbara my understanding of that language at the end of the uh amendment uh The purpose of that Is to create a very very high bar That would have to be achieved in court to To deny a woman those rights And I know that that's confusing for some Um, I would I would recommend that anyone who's interested in that issue Uh, look on senator ruth hardy's website and she gives a very good, um Synopsis of the amendment and why that language is in there it it it is put in there to Basically create a very very difficult bar for the state to meet If if they want to overturn it Thank you. And so that uh sentence is the exact reason I voted no to me This is not getting at what I think we could be doing Um and it nowhere in there is this that say women So we're saying this is about a woman's is about abortion that word was not in there This is so much more this, um, you know, there was a article in seven days about 11 year old getting sex training in the state of Vermont That's a reproductive organ Is that reproductive rights? There's so many unanswerable questions. I did not feel comfortable voting on this language It's not that I completely oppose what we have in front of us This is for men women however that you identify yourself. That's not up for me I do not support this language because there are too many questions that have gone unanswered I've sat at the hearings. I listened to the committee when my committee wasn't going I would go to there There's too many questions that cannot be answered the word woman the woman the word abortion abortion are not in there We already have that right here in the state of Vermont that is a law and that is up to the time of birth The woman has that right. That's not what this amendment is doing Thank you So we're going to switch over to closing statements um, and go around again And each statement each candidate can speak for up to two minutes as a closing statement um, and we will start with um, the senate and mark mcdonald would be up Closing statement I'm, uh, thank you for putting this on and then Disappointed that we have not tackled some of the fundamental issues of problems we have before us Our fossil fuel costs are high We're using fuels that don't do the environment any good and We seek to replace And use different fuels To do common practices like heating and transportation In the hopes that it brings the costs over a period of time down for all citizens And we have yet to craft a way to do that We um passed a global warming excuse me a clean heat bill Which called upon the global warming solutions act committee to make some recommendations On how to pay for The conversions that would help people save money and have a cleaner environment And We have to start from scratch again next year um The bill that that was didn't get that was vetoed and wasn't overridden Would have looked into a variety of things about them. What is the long term? um The long term questions that have to be answered about electric vehicles. What is the long term? About using wood for um sequestering carbon or for burning How do we solve these problems? Meanwhile, we're not doing anything And um, that's disappointing. I was disappointed to read and my opponents Yep, my opponents uh postcard that I had voted for a bill that never came up and never was voted on um, which one's that The allegation about having voted for uh, um heating oil increases um So i'm disappointed that we haven't asked the candidates how they would solve these problems how we would each Propose to solve the problem and make and move ahead in a um Thank you So I I find that um puzzling because the clean heat bill that you referred to that was vetoed By governor scott and then resisted by one vote an override Is the one in which you specifically I believe called for a heating oil tax as you've just said to help Offset the cost for people to make that conversion that is for heat pumps The existing net venering program takes money out of vermoner's pocket Some of whom heat with electricity some of whom do not live in a place that's well suited for solar panels To fund the ability of other people to get solar panels or EV cars That is the definition in tax law and policy of regressive All right, so it's not fair and then the people that are able to get need net venering sell it back at high rates That's going to end. I'm going to try to push to uh remove that because you can't help the The environment if your economy is tanking that's just fundamental look at the amazon But also many of these ideas however well Intentioned they're not going to work Solar pan rooftop panels are about twice the cost per kilowatt hours as solar fields Those solar panels are manufactured and transported here from china. They use coal to create them They generate a lot of things other than just co2 in their manufacturer They create all kinds of toxins and chemicals We are looking for a solution instead of reducing our consumption The number one way of which would be agriculture and bi-local food and don't truck it from far away And don't fill it with chemicals so it have a long shelf life and so that corporations make a lot of money in the processing side And then feed it to your children and wonder why they get cancer And so my policy list has been built on making vermont more affordable making government smaller The government in this state is growing in its budget faster than underlying incomes And the idea that we're going to fund it with chinese manufactured goods instead of growing our own economy It's not long term going to actually help the environment or the economy And so I really focus on farming and I have a book coming out on the subject Which will show that I've read about a hundred books from people smarter than me To figure out some real solutions and number one is vermont's heritage vermont's culture vermont's economy of local small scale Agriculture and that will help all of these issues Madam moderator Madam moderator, I just agree with him I Madam moderator, I said I was disappointed because I hoped that the very suggestions Or that my opponent has suggested would be debated here Not we have your people can look for themselves at your record. I've shown your videos Look at my car everybody here look at my car Just the two of us Thank you Um, so uh, Tariqa. I um, I'm very grateful for the ability to be able to serve you guys Um, I take it as I work for you. I've made myself accessible available Um, and by doing that I've reached out on every monday I would tell you what my schedule for my committee looked like on friday I would post on facebook front porch forum my email list Um, in any other way people would prefer to have it mailed about how I voted and why to give you the Why behind it and to give you links for you to be able to follow along with what I was doing The great thing about what happened with covet is everything's recorded. You can go online You can watch what I did you can watch that I was there Um, and you can look at and go back through for all the time to come to see this information Um, there's many of you in this room that I have reached out and helped To be able and that's what I'm grateful for to me. This is more than a job That to me this is this is It's a very rewarding experience And I am grateful to be able to help in any way that I can. Um, part of what I did also is I um, Chaperoned so that I didn't submit the bill it was submitted through um, office of professional regulation But a bill that allowed compact licensing for our nurses So that means that we can join in with other states and people can easily transfer here to come work Right now at my hospital, there's more travel nurses working with me than there are home nurses That means that they're paying being paid three four times more with other support than our home nurses are And we need the help I as I said, I did make the proposal for our pension plan And I also listened to the voters of currents who came out when we were Districting and that was part of my committee was to propose a new district for the entire state To match the census plan that came through in the house I am known as the one that will come to the middle and to hear all sides I might be in the minority But that doesn't mean that I do not come through to make sure that all the voices are heard and accounted for I'm there to work for you and that's what I continue to like to do And that's why I'm asking for your vote to be sent back to Montpelier to represent you. Thank you Thank you I was honored to serve as your representative in Montpelier And I'd be honored for your vote to send me back again to do the same I as I said before I would like to work on the issue of workforce development right and uh And and our housing and childcare issues, which uh, like I said before we're not going to solve our workforce issues If we don't have housing and childcare for people who want to come here and work When I served before I held office hours throughout the district I sent out a weekly newsletter during the session that let you know what I was up to and and what I was doing I would continue to do that. I would continue to I would also I would also go to select board meetings And I would be accountable to you as the voters of the district I'd work hard for you on these local issues that every town has um, I'd just be a phone call away And uh, I would like to thank uh, my fellow Candidates here for being here today like to thank the moderator. I lean like to thank the select board for proposing this and like to thank all of you for coming here today and uh, appreciate your interest in our Civic process here and appreciate your interest in In the selection and as I said before I'd be honored to go back and and I hope all of you will vote your vote is your voice. Thank you For the past 15 years. I've been sheriff and I will continue to work with our our towns our select boards on these contract issues There's not a quick fix on it. I could tell you that One town we had a plan in place for five years Increased $5,000 a year for five years First and second year was fine the third year Their greater broke The money went for for the greater. So I will work with the select boards with this with the contract issues Back in 2008 I created the special investigative unit Here in orange county It has been in place for you figure almost 14 years now We investigate all sex crimes against children in a 100 percent standalone victim friendly building That's in front of the chelsea health center That's not owned by the county. It's owned by the sheriff's department Five years ago. I brought the lead program here in vermont and we will continue that I'm part of the national sheriffs association and Through the national sheriffs association during the covet program a covet crisis I was able to at no charge Over 100,000 masks disposable masks were were Given throughout orange county and even beyond All the sheriffs in vermont got them the vermont dlc received over 20,000 hospitals First fire departments rescue squads I've been a part of Prevention partnership restorative justice Racial Racial disparity programs here The randolph rotary sunrise club and for since 2011. I've been doing a weekly radio show on wcvr And that'll continue once the selections are done. Thank you Well, my interests are in revamping the contract system so that it's more viable for towns that don't have the population and Are running on small budgets Secondly, I'd like to be able to look at our our budget within this the department It's it's kind of a vague A vague area in that even the side judges don't even know what's going on in the sheriff's department And I don't think that's good. I think that I think that we should be very very very open and clear to the public exactly what's happening And where we are spending our money. Are we spending our money on on trips going somewhere? We spending our money on You know different different things other than to protect and to serve are we spending our money on Things that we don't need to spend our money on What we're talking about the sheriff is talking about the this building that we have on On the north end of chelsea Well, I can tell you that it costs us 34 thousand dollars just to keep the old jailhouse going And the old jailhouse was sufficient for us for eons Back three sheriffs as far as I can remember And I have no idea what it costs us As as the sheriff said coming out of our sheriff's budget what it cost us to maintain that white building I'm assuming it's got to be at least 50 grand and that's 50 thousand dollars that that Would mean another patrol officer instead of that as I said we live for years in the jailhouse Why why are why have we expanded why are we size 44 and 32 pants? We haven't got enough people If we had more people then and perhaps we could you know Do better than what we do do. I know the I know the people are irritated by not being Answered calls in the middle of the night. Well, that can be taken care of I was in an outpost system for years handling five towns never had any problem with that if we could have a A different system of contracts where we have people designated to work in certain areas Not doing other things but designated to work in that certain areas like versier like fetford like west fairly people You know that haven't got contracts Thank you very much. I appreciate your time Um, I'd like to thank the versier select board our candidates for their time and for running for office or commedia They're going to put this online and to all of you for attending for your good questions and discussion Please stay for some goodies afterward in the back