 So I'll throw it up into the floor. I can't see absolutely everybody, but if you would indicate your request to Ask a question or make a comment a microphone will come to you and additionally, if you could Identify yourself in the organization that you represent Please also do that before your question so Who wishes to Ask the first question Yes, Park Minister Macinty mentioned In the speech of the president of France yesterday Which adverts to this option and I think it's fair to say that the conclusion that has been drawn from the Events that you have advert to over the last few years is that we do have to confront this and We have to look at Peace and security, which is not just a matter of markets We have to look at the The security of our external borders, which is not just a matter of markets and We have to look at things. I think in more than just the pragmatic way I think it's not right to say that the Treaty of Rome was a purely pragmatic Initiative on the part of the six at the time you minister Macinty mentioned that among the objectives was a never-closer union among the European peoples This is far from being just a pragmatic Objective as has been seen in the reaction in the United Kingdom One of whose main aims was to get this removed from the objectives of the European Union So I think we are faced with a very wide and far-reaching Debate on the future of the European Union, which is not confined to purely pragmatic questions Are purely questions of markets? Thank you, Park. I suppose it was inevitable that President Macron's speech yesterday would Influence today's discussion. So Minister Linda, would you like to reply to that? Yes, I mean the issue of more or less integration is Of course always on the table has been since since the birth of a you and It's it's no secret that from the Swedish side We don't think that there always is the best solution to have More integration in a formal way We are not in favor of big treaty changes right now. We think that the There the situation of more and more citizens in more and more countries actually getting Voting for parties that are Against closer integration is actually telling us something. I mean who could have thought you have had such a party as Alternative for Deutschland having 13% in 90 places in the in the Bundestag and You have in in Sweden the second biggest party 18% in the polls is Also anti-eu And and that is going around so I think what is important is not to come up with any any of the big vision of Changes but actually in delivering of what is already promised and and the commission has actually Put forward many many proposals, but many times it comes to the proposal and then it doesn't implement it and then there is new proposals and We haven't even implemented the one that was agreed upon before And I think one that's one of the big problems with you today to have Too many plans that are not implemented and to have too many big visions that are Seeing as being far away from the from the citizens And I think you should have both the big issues like solving climate change and Working for peace And the smaller issues like being able to use your phone without paying extra or Things that are all coming like you blocking against you blocking or against Portability meaning that you you can just watch for example Netflix in the way I bought it You cannot watch it all over a year those things that is Normal every day issues for people, but they they care about And that is why when it comes to my corner I'm just so very very relieved that it's an EU enthusiast like him Who are president of France and not Marine Le Pen that was actually the alternative But then I don't agree with Some of the ways he would like to change EU To a much more in a much more federally the federalist federalist way So I think that we can make more and better things in EU But I don't think it has to be with Common EU competence. I don't think this solution to put more competence in the hands of EU But more cooperation I can take the example of the social summit in Sweden where Many people things that okay, but we have to have more competence to EU to decide on our social issues in each member country I don't think that's the right way to go I think it's the right way to go to have some minimum standards For example that there should be a law that you should have a Vacation which was not the case in in UK actually or That there should be Directive on working hours things like that But it should be up to each country to decide what kind of of social welfare system You want and then use EU in a way to inspire each other to have the same To share experiences And to put the issues on the agenda I suppose just to reiterate my point In that if the EU was perfect, then we wouldn't be having this discussion and I think all those years when it was established There are a lot of the key Values and core reasons that still apply to today But the reason that we have seen that the outcome in the referendum I think it's because it doesn't work in all of its In all of its forms So I think the discussion has to very much focus now on how it can work For its citizens and how citizens can become better Engaged and better involved in that conversation and I think that's the biggest challenge that we have and I think it's going back to what Anne has said it's It's bringing it right back down to how it impacts on people's daily lives. It's you know, it's the broadband It's the the roaming it's It's the jobs and you know, the most important element of People's lives at the moment is ensuring that they have a job that they were able to support their families And that's why some of our key priorities here in Ireland are focusing on jobs and growth Focusing on the single digital markets and the other key areas as well. We can't ignore those. We're talking about Security and defense and peace and security that has changed since the Treaty of Rome and that has changed Through the digitalization of terrorism online through the attacks that we've seen happening in our streets and how random they are and to quote Arthitia we are We are a We are Well, we are We are Republic of Opportunity, but we are a new that was Alan Duke to the record. Yes We are a neutral country, but we're not neutral to terrorism So I think we you know the debate has to start changing and you know How many aspects would still remain from back then there's a change in direction now? We see it with Brexit is that the the the notion of ever closer union Doesn't really mean anything immediate to most of the population And I think that we really have to flesh it out for example The fact that Minister Lin doesn't have to pay roaming charges here is a part of ever closer union The fact that we now have cheaper airfares than we've had for quite a long time is a part of ever closer union The fact that we have made Some strides for example in dealing with problems in the financial sector is part of ever closer union and I think that any Efforts that we make to pursue The improvement of people's lives has to be put into that context I mean ever closer union means nothing to 99% of the population other than a bit of blow or political puff We have to show that it means something The other points that I think is going to be very important during the course of whatever we decide to do Is to to to deal with the issue which has become entrenched in the public consciousness That there is this awful quote democratic deficit own quote in the European Union Despite the fact that decisions are made by ministers who are appointed by governments who are elected by people and Despite the fact that although very few people know much about it We have a European Parliament which in many respects Has far more direct influence on what the European Union does that many national parliaments have on their own situation For example, I was a member of the dog for 21 years And I would frequently have given my right arm to have the same influence on the Irish budget as the European Parliament has on the European budget and That is not known And until we deal with those kinds of issues We're going to be really talking in the wind About the future development of the EU and there are so many things which both ministers have Touched on here that can actually be done to improve the lot of citizens and Show them what it means to have an ever closer union Thank you for the opportunity to make the ranch So it's just a team of communicating Europe which we were talking about a little bit earlier and Mary Cross is talking about it Do either of you wish to reply to that? Yes a few comments I think you're perfectly right that there's a lot of the Steps that are taking for for people making people's lives better are Steps that are ever closing closing union and I would I wouldn't lift the inner market the single market Sweden is a very export oriented country the export goes for about 45 percent of the GDP 1.4 million Swedes has a job to go to because of the export and 74 percent of our export goes to the inner market So of course every time we make it easier for Our companies both small and medium-sized and big to to export more to the inner market That means something for and for jobs and for growth and that is I think it's a huge Success that we don't we nearly don't think about it. I mean you don't you don't speak about When you go when you go to a meeting about the EU you don't speak about the inner market And how important it is you speak about Brexit or Or the energy union, but you don't speak about this which is maybe one of the most important things Ever close a market and I think that UK will actually See how much it means when they when they leave it the second thing is the democratic deficit. I think that and This is important because many people who talk about the democratic deficit Is talking about a deficit if you had a federation, but we don't have a federation so I don't Accept the notion of a democratic deficit like you should you should Have an elected Government or that you should have more decisions taken because EU is not the federation is a mixture is unique And therefore I think the democratic deficit is not in the EU institution But it is that you don't for example use the National Parliament more and That I say coming from the country in Europe has the most Rules on letting the National Parliament into EU decision that There is no minister who can go to any council before having the mandate from the parliament in Sweden that is I nearly said painful I didn't mean that But you really have to go there Every week and I who goes to many council meetings I have to go there all the time and I have to get an agreement from the parliament Before I can say anything and something they don't agree and that means that you have the Democracy by getting your parliament so much involved in what Sweden actually is What kind of position Sweden is having in in all the council meetings? I think that when when President Macron speak about getting more democrat Getting the people to be more democratic involved in EU by having those democratic conventions That's fine, but it's it's I think it's more Important to have it in the rules and regulation of dealings with the national parliament to having it formally in your Democratic system in in the government and so on that I think many countries Have a great potential for improvement in this case Just I supposed to touch on again. We're talking about communications and the disconnect and It is getting that message back And I suppose we hear that the higher figures in Ireland we have access to 500 million people We know that and you know over the last or through our entire term as members of the European Union We've received 42 billion more than we've actually put into us But I mean how do you get that across to people where does that filter down? It's it's financed to our farmers It's it's support for a small and medium enterprises It's it's funding for our leader programs Which then trickle down into the communities and and to our individuals So I think we perhaps need to be able to get that message across better Unfortunately in the age that we're in now as I mentioned earlier straight bananas and everything else that comes along when we try And make these arguments we possibly haven't been as good at refuting And the various different challenges that are put before so I think There needs to be what more worked on and that regard to myself and I spoke about it a format that they have Whereby certain issues within the European Parliament are brought and together. It's called a issue council issue council And we have something similar here in Ireland But we perhaps haven't focused on the European issue So our citizens assembly a lot of the issues that have come up there have been more domestic issues But I think perhaps that's a mechanism that we could use either to to to get further understanding from our citizens What they want us to be focusing on but also for us to put forward ideas and to see what kind of a response comes back But this is what we're exploring at the moment. This is what we we need to be able to do to communicate people Exactly how the European Union has had a positive impact on their lives and also to make them realize that what Brexit is happening You know, I think there's a sense that All of our exports all of our trade is with the UK, but we know that it's now only at 16 or 17 percent So there's a whole world out there that we need to open up to Thank you Dermott Scott member of the Institute. It's me again. I'm afraid minister Brexit will change the dynamics of the EU considerably and from Ireland's point of view It'll pose a lot of difficult issues because In so many cases we had similar of not always but we had similar issues a similar interest to the to the British And so the loss of the large country that shares our interests is going to pose certain problems We will be looking for new Friends and alliances to build Now I expect you to say politely that you've course you will build one with Ireland But I'm wondering what is it? What is how does Sweden see this issue? Do you see the loss of Britain as being a problem for the dynamics from your point of view? And how do you see yourselves trying to to look out for the future? Well, thank you. I mean Brexit isn't good for anybody. I mean, it's not good for us It's not good for you, and I certainly don't think it's good for UK For for Sweden as It has two aspect aspects one economic aspect since UK is one of our biggest trading partners even if it We lost 16% last year and it went down several places in On the least on them who we trading with You cannot say for sure that is because of Brexit, but it's a fact anyway, but there is also of course the political side where Sweden is the country that votes most Together with UK or UK is the country that votes vote most with Sweden in Of all the countries We have very very similar views being free traders Being a lot of In our market jobs and growth Oriented but also the first thing we did after Brexit was to give all ministries The task to to see how do we cooperate with UK in EU and On what areas and what came back was that in all areas except social affairs and labor market and Environment development aid Culture in everything we voted and and cooperated with the UK So it was not only on the free trading side that everybody knows from the beginning you that we and But but in all all other areas so That means that it will be a big loss for us what we have done now is to We have let our agencies six or seven Decisions from the government to make different reports on all different areas. What will it mean for for customs? What will it means for for different voting patterns? Everything and then we have got the report back so that we could be better prepared in the both in the negotiations And when they have left One of the things we we gave to our one of our Institute was to see If UK leaves where are our allies in different issues? Because what we have to do now is of course to to find to be more active in finding allies Of course, Ireland, but also Germany will be much more important for Sweden than it Then it has been even if we there is not one single country that is so Close to us then UK so now we have to see in those issues We could work more together with this country in those issues. We can work more together with this Country and that is what we are trying to do now when it comes to to Ireland we very much support Ireland in In the Brexit issue we think Fundamental and fundamental issue to find a solution where you could keep the good free at Friday agreement But that you also could keep the People the possibility for people to to go freely and goods, but I often tell the situation with Norway because every in the beginning UK say, okay, let's do like Norway Sweden. It's so easy But it's not so easy Because Norway is a member of the single market and that means that it's a free Free circulation of people. That's not the problem at all But they are not members. They are not fully members of the Custom unions and that means that the custom Procedures are very very difficult between Sweden and Norway And when we did Survey on two thousand companies in Sweden, which country is the most difficult to trade with? Norway was number one Then came Russia and China and others and the reason is the customs Procedures and there is also the tariffs I guess that nobody in this room could even expect how much Swedish cheese maker has to pay for tariff to to sell Swedish cheese in Norway and the right answer is 277 percent And in Denmark it's zero percent because it's the inner market the single market So you can you can understand that this this So many things you don't think of and that will of course be especially for Ireland All the goods going back and forth. This will be a major issue Then of course, I should say that in Sweden There is also big big shopping center and by the borders where Where the Norwegians come and buy cheese? And and other things Also, but but for for the customs That is a big big problem Okay, I hope there's nobody here from the IFA if I'm a fit of the vapors listening to all of that so The gentleman there Yeah George Antonesk member of the issues and I just I'm just gonna have a brief question We'll talk about the future of the EU and one of the main goals as mentioned earlier on in relation to the Bratislava agenda was security and Just gonna in the context of I know and Sweden and Recently joined NATO in an exercise or 17. I think it's called in the context of so pad is Sweden willing to go down the road of joining NATO in this context or you know in the president Macron yesterday security was featured very highly and He talked about the European defense strategy and I'm wondering if Soon he's willing to go down that road and support the European strategy defense strategy or join NATO and secure we have our policy of military non-aligned and we will keep that there are Parties in the parliament are in favor of joining NATO But there is no Majority in the opinion for joining NATO and the current government has no plans whatsoever to join NATO We have though The last years signed a several bilateral agreement between Sweden and USA Sweden and Germany Sweden and Finland for closer cooperation in the defense Sector Aurora is the biggest military exercise since 1993 and it's There is there is not a NATO part of it at all, but other Countries are invited like France like USA who are NATO countries, but that's on a bilateral invitation When it comes to the defense of and the security is in EU We think it's good that there is a good cooperation on security matters be it the military or non-military for example to improve EU activities in in on missions like in Sahel area or so on we are definitely against a common European army that is nothing, but we are not against having a Good coordination of issues so that for example we exercise With NATO countries and so with no problem because we cooperate we have cooperated actually in all NATO missions Abroad in countries like when it was in the Baltics when it was in Africa You know that kind of that kind of missions Of course not don't misunderstand me not missions like We are we're not members in Iraq things like that, but then these kind of missions where you way you have support of Problematic problematic area that that goes under the United Nations mandate We have never taken part in anything that don't have United Nations mandate and we are very very Strict on any mission that we take part that needs to have a United Nations mandate So I don't see a problem with having No closer coordination and so on but we don't believe in a new army or something like that To add on that I mean we would very much share the views around the idea of a European army there are ways to be supportive and to be involved but Without hindering I think other member states views and we've seen recently our I suppose joint agreement within the door to join the Project Sophia and obviously as a country we have a very proud tradition and history around peacekeeping And that's something that we want to continue into the future Again when we're talking about security and defense there are many other formats that it takes now particularly around Cyber security and we very much welcome the Commission's Cyber security report, which was published or legislation which was published last week and while it's it's very ambitious It's extremely important because we're in an ever-changing world And while we've discussed earlier on all the positives about the single digital markets and free flow of dust and trade There are obviously some difficulties around that. I think that's what the Taoiseach meant as well around You know being neutral but not neutral to terrorism because it comes in all its format So I think again as I said, it's not about hindering other member states put certainly our position Around a single army and that is very similar to Sweden's I mean I'm intrigued by the by the single market Michael Hamill from the Institute I'm intrigued by the single market and I'm wondering if you were a Swede could you borrow money to build your house? from a German bank or from a Danish bank Finnish bank because citizens here would imagine that that should be part of the single market and would you be able to make your insurance with a French insurance company or a Belgian insurance company for your house or whatever it is. I'm trying to pick new Things that the single market could build Because if I talk to my friends who know nothing about the EU They say why can't I get a loan in Germany and have to cost here? Why can't I get insurance in? Sweden perhaps at half the cost here. That's the single market for me Embassy of Georgia my name is George or was really in the charge of fear of the embassy I would like to thank the ministers both of you for a very interesting intervention and for very interesting answers on the questions and my my My question regarding the security and the safety of the European Union from the perspective of the of the digital Digital site, so we all do live in the digital world and we know that the electronical and the digital information is very much easy to be spread and It can be it can be any news can be can be reached to the most remote part of any Country of the European Union or in the world We know what is happening in the United States and there are some these investigation is ongoing with the with the intervention on the on the fake news and the intervention of the elections of the United States We know what is happening or what what was the fear of the Netherlands? Why they have avoided to go with the digital with electronic voting when the elections were there There were some rumors about the possibilities of the intervention in the German elections in the French elections We know what is happening or gig or again. There are some rumors about the the Spanish Problems they have So it's very much easy to undermine the unity and the security of any country Or especially with the European Union whenever there is a threat coming From the propaganda from any other country or from any other agencies Minister Helen Macinty you walked us Kindly through the history of the European Union in a mission the Soviet Union when there was the the the threat coming from the Soviet Union about the Russian crumbling propaganda towards European Union It was against the West and we do all remembers it quite well So it seems to us that that that propaganda is a type of a propaganda is ongoing To undermine the unity of the European Union. So my my question will be what what will be what the what are the tools? What is a mechanism? What is the opinion? What are the possibilities from the European Union to avoid any such of a threat? Thank you very much for this for the for for this Future answer and of course I cannot stand and not ask you about the ongoing or not only but very very very very nearby Summit of the Eastern partnerships that will be November On the 20th 23rd or 24th of November So, you know that Georgia has a very strong aspirations to become the member of the European Union And I would love to sit to hear your your remarks on this. Thank you very much I will ask my civil servant Maria Ramstad to sit there to answer that first question But I know of course I was living in in Brussels and I had a brought in Belgium bank account and There was a billion security for my flat and so on and so forth so I that that was absolutely no problem but the other issues I Think Maria can can answer better when it comes to cyber security and the issues of that I think that there has been so many evidence the last Years on how important this is and that is why now the EU Commission has proposed that there should be cyber security Agency is it or something like that and and also to put more money on the on the In the budget for it and for example connecting with the other Question that the other gentlemen said Sweden is for example a member of the NATO Center of excellence For cyber security and we don't see that as any any Going anything against our policy of military non-alignment for for example It is of course extremely important that voters feel that when you when you have an election that is not Manipulated by by any other country and actually I started my day here with Visit to Facebook and we we discussed this matter because it's of course also the the the social platforms also have a Responsibility and possibility to to see if they can see what's happening that there is coming for example traffic from from places that you don't Expected massively into an election and they are looking into those issues now When it comes to enlargement Sweden has a policy of being in favor of a continuing enlargement, but I have to say that When I go to the meetings That with European ministers, but minister Macinty also does there is what I would say an enlargement fatigue And for the first time ever We could not agree this year to have a common position on enlargement That has never happened before That has nothing to do with the country you represent, but it shows that enlargement has becoming much much more Controversial now than it was before so this is an issue of big debate Among countries and I think it will be difficult debate But our policy is that We think that EU should be a larger Union because it's assessing the treaty that any European country that wishes to become a member of European Union Could be that and could be able to apply for membership, but it should have the possibility to to Follow all the criteria You can answer the first question I'm the deputy director for single market affairs at the Swedish Ministry for Foreign Affairs and on the issue of Insurances and that is it possible? I understood the question being is it would it be possible to actually acquire an insurance in Sweden and then Go abroad or would it be possible for a Swedish building company to actually acquire an insurance and and then go Abroad and indeed that is in fact has turned out to be it is a problem on a very Highly personal screening. I I noticed that only one Swedish company insurance company actually do provide cross-border insurances for Swedish citizens, but in terms of Actually trying to do something about it. There is a Proposal just will tabled by the European Commission on the European e-services card Which in fact actually deals with this particular issue Well negotiations are going quite slow in council But there is a section on this particular issue So indeed it has been identified as an important element in terms of increasing the fee movement of services Thank you This comes back to what we're talking about and what is it that citizens want? What do they want to guess? Out of the European Union, and I mean we are very much behind the full implementation of the single market and that includes The services element of it as well But then again as has been said you're getting into difficulties the free flow of data crossing jurisdictions and you know, I think that's That discussion has been had but maybe isn't and hasn't been to the fore and that's something that we are keen to do moving forward With regards again, I suppose security and safety online and you know, once again, this is this is about Trying to compromise between freedom of speech, but also I'm trying to stop Stop the likes of what you're talking about happening where there is a threat or a threat element to us And I think We've seen that once fake news is out there or once something damaging is online It's very hard to take back the way this online media has gone or the online has gone in itself It is immediate it is there and it is there for all to see forever So I think we have to be very ambitious in this regard again to repeat the Commission's report last week I think that's an important step and I think we need to support that but I think again We have to be very cautious that we don't impinge on people's right to freedom of speech while we're doing that as well Okay, so may I thank the two ministers on behalf of the Institute and on your behalf for their very valuable contributions I think it's part of the Institute's work to try to develop close relationship with other EU member states and this is what part of that process So we're absolutely delighted to have these distinguished ministers here to give their views on this crucial issue today So thank you and please give them your appreciation. Thank you