 Alright, thanks for staying with us now. The Lagos State People's Democratic Party candidate, Olajide Adediran, and his running mate, Funkaki Dele, on Saturday, had visited a man whose vehicle was among those recently auctioned by the Lagos State Government over the traffic law infringement, and a video shared on the Twitter handle of Adediran. The man, Osinachi Unduke, narrated his ordeal and how his daughter died while he was in prison and he still ended up giving up his vehicle to the government. Now responding, Adediran said, the purpose for which a government is in power is to see to our welfare. There is not, I mean, or rather that is not to say that if you go on the wrong side of the law, you will not be penalized. But what are we saying is, oh sorry, but what we are saying rather is that we do not want a penalty that will take people's livelihood away from them. We have come to see how we can provide succor to your plight. Now Unduke's vehicle was impounded by the Lagos State Government for flaunting traffic laws and this brings us to the conversation that we are having today, right? Can lawlessness be curbed in Nigeria? Now please, let's hear what you have to say. Remember you can join the conversation, send us an SMS or WhatsApp to 081-8034-663. You can also tweet at us, at Weisshoafqa1 with the hashtag Weissho. All right, so this question is something that I think we've said it several times, upside down, inside out and all of that. But you know, what really brought the conversation back again to this table was the press, a big governatorial candidate visiting, what's he called, someone that infringed the law. And you know, was it supposed to be like a way to score cheap political points? I do not know. But when you say things like that and you make people believe that it is okay, you know, I want to come and comfort you despite the fact that you did something wrong. Is it going to be possible that lawlessness can be eradicated from our system when we keep having people like this, right? So there have been a lot of mixed reactions online. Some people are saying that no, Lagos State sometimes, you know, they impound vehicles unnecessarily. You know, sometimes it's not really the driver's fault. Sometimes it's D, some scientists that's trying to justify that there are cases that are unique and all of that. First of all, I choose not to believe that Lagos State government is not trying to target this move. It was collective. It was a lot of cars that were impounded, right? So why would you single out one person to say, okay, maybe the government was vindictive or the government was trying to attack a person, right? So I want to hear your thoughts. So is it that because he went to jail, they should have said, okay, that was enough punishment and probably giving him his car back or were they right in doing this? And if so, is it possible that people would continue or this would deter people from breaking laws or will continue with swimming inside our lawless anyhowness in the country? I've asked many questions. Hannah, do you want to answer? I don't know if we are going to be answered by... The answers are clear. Let's not do that. The answers are clear. But it's okay. You know, my first question would be, what do we really want as a people? Because what we are speaking about now is symptoms. Are we ready for this change that we asked for? Or we just want to shift slightly in certain indices, but we are okay in certain things. I love how NASA always calls it anyhowness. We have gotten to a state today in a nation where when somebody is doing the wrong thing, the person that challenges that person becomes the outlier. And everybody says, your own is too much. Why? I have been in a situation where buses were coming one way, bikes were coming one way, and a man in his car faced the bus and everybody started abusing the man. And I always say this, a government is an aberration of the people. You... They don't drop from the sky. Absolutely not. They are a representation of who we are. Now, a lot of people will say, but there are a lot of buts. But our politicians don't get punished. But the little man is always the guy, the big man. Until we are ready to face some hard truths in this country, I do not believe that we are ready for the change that we like to load about and say that we want. Every day we drive in traffic, rush our traffic for me. Now, because I know the quantity or the level of traffic in my area, I leave at a certain time to avoid getting into traffic. But some people will leave 30 minutes later, then form three lanes. Oh, five. Then form three... No, five is even where it can take five. But they will form three lanes. Then those that will follow one way because everybody's justification is that their traffic can lead. Let me tell you what I think. There is a justification for everything. I think I've said it before on this show. You can't kill a person and justify it. My point is, what do we truly want as Nigerians? Because every day I'm driving on that road and I see people doing this thing. And I say to myself, is this the person who will get down from that car tomorrow and say, but Buhari is bad. But this politician is bad. It's the classic log in your diverse or speck in mind. Let's be clear. We can't say that this one is wrong, but it's not so wrong, is what does the law say? This particular person has gone to jail, I believe, for three years, right? Three months. For three months. And the vehicle was seized. Does the law say those are the two crimes that are applicable? If it is, that is the law. Now, does the law allow you to appeal it to challenge it? That is a process. But the problem is in the culture and in the mindset that people think, oh, because I really cannot understand what other reason that a gubernatorial candidate we get up or the causes in this current legos is that one. Why? Because it's emotive. The people that are reporting the story, they add, it was a widow. It was a something. Why didn't they go and find out the people who have lost family members due to people driving one way? Thank you. Why? We can continue to tell ourselves lies. And it is okay. But let's all be clear that we are telling ourselves lies. And let's not be throwing stones in glass houses. Stop it. Absolutely. Absolutely. Let me come back to you. I'll come back to you, NJ. So your thoughts, right? Because, I mean, I was just driving on admirality. The road was already blocked. You know that junction, that particular junction where you are about to hit the Iqoi link? That final junction. Like, you really literally know that everybody is trying to go slowly so that everybody will be accommodated. Somebody now comes from Fomsito. I saw a guy practically with a stick. Shout it. You know? And the guy was trying to move his car to push the guy out of the road. You know? So I keep wondering that, especially when it comes to traffic laws, right? We are so lawless. You know? We do not even care what the next, as far as I'm concerned, I'm in a hurry and I'm going somewhere. So when we are talking about lawlessness, right? Is it even possible for us to even, we're not even trying to eradicate Ito. The net was even curbed it, because there are some places that if you do not see a traffic law enforcement officer, just know that that day is going to be hell because you're not going to go anywhere. Everybody will be standing still. It's a complete lockdown. But let me hear your thoughts. Do you think it's possible? And when you heard that, the gubernatorial candidate of the PDP and his deputy visited that man and donated the sum of, I think, 500K, what came to your mind? A lot of us should queue up now. So I'll meet the... Let me just go and break one law so that they will impound my cut. So that we can gain the sympathy of an attention of... It seems that when people do the wrong things, they are rewarded. Not that I have any problem with you and the decisions that you choose to make. But the truth of it is that when Nigeria is headed, if we do not tell ourselves the truth, like Uti had rightly mentioned earlier, then we're heading for chaos. There's an interesting quote I came across by Archie Lee Moore, and he said that if we resort to lawlessness, the only thing we can hope for is a civil war untold bloodshed and the end of our dreams. Again, what Uti said, what do we want? As a people, that question is very pertinent and we need to answer it. The truth of it is that we cannot have lawlessness eradicated if the people who should champion people keeping the law are breaking the law as well. Have you been on the road before and then suddenly you see a police van with what do they call it, the pilot and they're going in the opposite direction. Daring you to do something. Sometimes I even flash my light so that you know that I see you and I know that you're doing something wrong. So if the people who are the lawmakers and the law enforcers are also breaking the law, who is going to hold who? Is a question. There is so much and for us as a country, we cannot make or we've said several times in the conversations that we have that the definition of insanity is when we repeat things over and over again and expect a different result. We cannot say we want Nigeria to move forward if we as Nigerians are not ready to move forward. It will start with us as citizens to know what we want. Being able to pick leaders who will represent what the direction that we want to go because we want to make progress and that we will also hold both our leaders and ourselves accountable. So if you bring it to culture and mindset, like Uti had mentioned, we need a complete change of culture, a complete change of mindset because it will determine. We keep saying our lawmakers and Uti again mentioned that we are there a reflection of who we are. So if our mindset as a people and our culture does not change, then we'll continue to elect the wrong kind of people. We'll also continue to do the wrong kind of things because nobody's holding you accountable for any of your actions. Some people we travel out, we see some of the beautiful things, we experience it and you're asking how come they travel out and they don't come back and say, this thing is beautiful for my country. We need to implement it. We need to show and overall, I can see that Nigerians gradually have come to be a people that lack humanity because if you have humanity at the heart of who you are in the first place and you know that this thing is not good for me as an individual, you will not wish it even for your enemy. So I mean over the weekend, I saw two videos and I'll come to you NJ quickly because we need to go on a break so open our phone lines, two videos. One was a commissioner in Lagos. He saw an on, I don't know if you saw that video. He saw an oncoming vehicle and he was like literally blocking him to keep reversing until he come back. Somebody landed last my truck video. You know, I just want to like, you know, I want to attest to what Noma said. The last man, their truck, the last man vehicle, right, was also going in a one-way direction. The guy also decided to say, okay, you know what? I think it was a Twitter and online person. He blocked the, this thing that you said, you're going to turn back, you know? And the last man guy refused, you know, he stood there. So people kept on telling him, he said, no, no, if you want to pass, you can go ahead but this car is going to have to go back. So in the situation where we're in in Nigeria, everybody just feels like it's my right to break the law. I am in a hurry. In fact, tomorrow we are having the former last man boss would you to continue this conversation because again, he will tell you that, I mean, I've heard in different quotas that sometimes even with the gridlocks, right, they thrive in seeing those gridlocks. You know why? Because they know that some people will get impatient, go on the other side of the road because those are avenues for them to be able to make money. So they can, so you see, the lawlessness is so deep seated that the people that are supposed to be the custodians of the law, they are looking for, they create chaos and they are looking forward to people breaking the law so that they are after what goes into their pocket as a bribe. So tell me, if this is like a vicious circle, how then do we even get to that point where people just say, you know what? I think I just want to, you know, I don't think it's possible. Let me hear your thoughts. Put your smiley face. Well, I had an experience, you know, I mentioned that I went to, I was stuck in traffic. So I have to take, you know, an alternative route to try and convince. No, no, no. Trust me, I've had my own fair share of the law and seriously, I don't even bother anymore. I don't take bus lanes, no matter how bad it is. So I was on the way to take, you know that baggadourton of how you joined Third Mainland? And then there was traffic there and a lot of people were even doing one way. And, you know, and there were, there was traffic. But the last night agents were on the highway, on the bus lane, waiting, just waiting. You can, like, there was a lady standing at the back of the bus so that she can see like far away. So that even when you take the bus lane and you go get back, you don't pick out your car. So in my opinion, I was wondering, why aren't some of you scattered around to move maybe at the junctions, to move the traffic so that the traffic is not so, so that people don't get tempted to do that? So even the government, even some members of government actually do these things. And instead of doing their job, they're waiting for people to commit that crime so that they would get paid for it for me because definitely they won't make enough money if they are moving traffic. But when you disappear traffic, you can't be, you know. Absolutely. You know what, let's go at the break. Let's see if we can open our phone lines and get a few people to call into the show and let's discuss this lawlessness matter. Uti is just smiling. Why are you smiling? Ha, ha, ha, we'll be right back. Thanks for staying with us now. If you're just tuning our ladies night out and we're asking, can lawlessness be curb? Uti has just been smiling and smiling. I don't understand why she's smiling at me. Now, please let's hear what you have to say. Remember, you can join the conversation, send us an SMS or WhatsApp to say it all. 803-4663, you can also tweet at us at Weisshawf.com or the hashtag Weisshow. Our phone line is now open. The number to call is 07025007749. Remember, turn off the volume of your television set so we can hear ourselves, you know. So we do not have to cut you off the call. So, I mean, it's interesting, right? And that part for me is where, when a gubernatorial candidate decides to visit. Wait, I have no finish, let me land. You will not try to justify that, okay, maybe it was one officer that was trying to be vindictive, right? So I want to be able to have a clear case of you were wrong with no trace of maybe this is somebody's targeting me, somebody's not targeting me. So I've seen those lanes in that guagada, right? It's almost like they look out for the cars that they want to stop. They look out for the, you know, they don't stop everybody, they just select a few people and all of that. Can we get to that point where, if you break the law, regardless of who you are, everybody goes down? Because in that cars, number of cars that were impounded, I can bet you for free, maybe they were like 300 cars. So people have gone to go and redeem their own, paid their money and all of that to get their cars out. It's the people that probably could not afford it, that they now eventually do the functioning and all of that, that is possible. And that's where I find it difficult to be able to say, you know what? We can even say, okay, this time around, the government have no fault in this, right? Can we start to build in a situation, build ourselves to the point where, if they check it, they turn it upside down, they shake it, they remove this, there is no single fault. It was a clear case of you were wrong and this is the law. And you are facing the punishment that the law says you should face. Is it possible? It's very possible, why can't we get there? There's already a law. So for every law, there's most times a punishment if you do not obey the law. So this is a punishment, because I'm sure for him to have, for the young gentleman to have gone to jail for three months, he must have gone through a court process. And then for the reasons based on the evidence that was put before the judge, the judge made a conviction, because I don't think it's everybody that goes to jail. There are a lot of traffic law breakers, and I'm sure a lot of them do. So there must have been a reason why he went to jail for three months. Now, I do not understand the reason why he was singled out for this purpose. But you want to agree with me that there is selective judgements in terms of breaking the laws in Nigeria. Can we all agree on that? So is that not the real cause of lawlessness? It's one of the causes. It's not the real cause. If we say we want to curb lawlessness, if we get to that point, whether it is Uti that is smiling, that she's looking at me and smiling, she's my friend, and she breaks the law, that I brand new car, I would just say take it for auction. Is it possible? Because if we start to do it like that, maybe we can then find a solution. I'm just trying to find solutions here because we are running out of time. I don't know how else we will get to that point. It's very simple. It is just a consequence game. It is simple. So when you say that I get tempted, it means that you can get tempted to more to kill somebody. We like to quantify things here. This one not so bad. This one is very bad. Gray line. Let's all first, like I also asked the question, what do we want? Because I hear us even here trying to add two wrongs to it, right? Last ma, bad. Police, bad. Do we have cases of people that stand in places where they are waiting to catch somebody? Yes. Do you have unclear road traffic laws, no signage? Yes. Do you have... So even in the example you gave of the last man guy facing one way, do you know whether the place that he's trying to go and fix up, he's trying to get down there to face one way, to get to where the traffic starts, to clear the traffic? No, let's be clear. Abroad, emergency vehicles are emergency vehicles. You can take whatever means... And let there be emergency vehicles. If the police cannot turn emergency vehicles? It is. Yes, it is. Because you're not accustomed to the fact that the police is trying to get somewhere quickly, what I'm saying, what I'm trying to simply say is, look, let's dimension the fact that there are problems everywhere and no problem to get anyone. So, the fact that I am in traffic does not say that I am tempted to break the law. Forget it. The fact that police is badly behaved, we have that problem already, does not mean that I stopped doing what is right. Why do we need last man in the first place? Nobody's asking that question. You have... You have... Why do you need control traffic? We have traffic lights, but people will beat it. So, at every junction, we have technological solutions, but we still need human beings. Why? Because people will not do what is right. Why? Because we do not have consequences. And that's what I want to come to, because when we talk about IGR, for a state like Lagos State, if Lagos State started charging for every traffic infraction, they wouldn't need to look for anybody again to make money. And guess what? This problem will be solved. So, today in Lagos State, there are a couple of ways they catch you. Some cameras have traffic lights. Some traffic lights have cameras. If you go for MOT today and you don't have certain things, like if you don't have a fire extinguisher, they will find you. So, these are always in which you can now start to curb the problem, because I'm trying to come back to the answer. The solution, yeah. To the solution. So, can it be curbed? Yes. Do we have a cultural problem? Yes. Have we given ourselves many reasons and excuses why this problem will stay? Yes. But is it possible to fix the problem? Yes. Case in point, operation sweep. If you remember it, Google it. You did not try yourself, because there was no story. Directly, God bless our soul, nafdaq. It was not like that. It didn't happen overnight. But it was a conscious effort and it was a choice that somebody made. And usually, change is born of consequence. It's like you have kids. If they can get away with it, they will do it. And they'll keep expanding. So, we have gotten away with it for so long that our culture has become lawless. But let us not make it seem like we don't know right from wrong, because when they go abroad, they don't do it. They don't do it. Correct. So, that accountability, I agree with you, is where the problem lies. And it's gotten to a point where it has eaten into the road. But we have to have the tough conversations with ourselves to say, you know what? I am part of the problem. It doesn't matter whether you stand today and you say, your leaders, your leaders, your leaders, after all, our leaders, our leaders, our leaders, everybody, you live in an area, you go and throw dirt away in front of your house. Then you justify it and say, because there's nobody to pack your... And there's so many stories that you hear. And I'm like, come on. We keep saying we want to be different, yet in our DNA, I've told this story before on the show of a colleague of mine who I traveled in a vehicle with Tibado. And the whole way Tibado was telling me how he would be a fantastic leader, he would be a great leader. On the way out of Tibado, we brought something out of... Because he finished using the Amalai side of the car, he went down the window, Oh wow, that's why we're going to be a great leader. Yes! So when we started having this conversation, I'm like, what? I actually believe that Nigerians are the easiest people to curb in terms of lawlessness because you just need to hit us where it hurts and do it consistently. Yes. We are very quick to allow it. Is that part of consistency? That's where we lack. Because even the people who enforce these things, I was going to ask, where are the laws that are in existence? Do we know what they are? How do we inform the people? There's social media, there's media public... No, but let go of your main choice, for this one way traffic. Because they have been... Hold on, hold on, who are... Sensitize the people, some are looking at people. They can sensitize people in one way, but that's not the only law. Yeah. They signposts, what do they mean? Hey, what part of the... No, you're not saying that there is... Is it all to go and buy... What's that book called? Highway Accords? I mean, whatever that thing is called. Enforce these things. It's not the one we're talking about. Consistency. How are you enforcing these things? When those people stop you, the law enforcers, what are they asking for? Is it really about if you read the manual? But wait, I want to bring it back to my story that I took today. We think consigned last month. Mm-mm. That one doesn't follow your question. Your question is, how can lawlessness be curbed? We just talked about... Is that not lawlessness on the part of last month? It's not what it's consequence is. Today, if you have a job and you... I learned to run. And you... No, because if you... I don't want us to go off topic. Yes, but not what you have to run. If you work in a place today, if you work in a bank today and you steal money, are there no consequences? Of course. The same last month you have... Is it not everyday that SP Benjamin Houdain is on Twitter every day convincing us that police officers are getting punishments? Punishments, yes. It's every way. I saw a video recently about someone... You know, someone did the video. I think it went viral. Where... I think it's somewhere in the UK or something. A police officer parked in a place that was a no-park zone just because he went across the street to go buy something. And the traffic warden came out and saw it and impounded the car. Yes, ma'am. And then when he came out, he was just running out and said, oh, please remove the... the whatever they used to hold the tire. He said, excuse me. You're not above the law. You parked in the wrong place and impounded your car. And you're going to go and pay the fine, whatever it is. And you go to a psychiatric evaluation. Whatever else there is needed. The point being that if we can not... It's not just about, I agree, the people are lawless. Nigerians are lawless. Their leaders are lawless. Everybody is lawless. What's the way forward? We have to define clearly what our laws are. Then punishment for the laws. Next, enforcement. And we that are enforcing it must also be held accountable. So that if anybody goes against the law, it will be in the news that, oh, a so-called local government chairman's car was also impounded because he parked in the wrong place. And he cannot go against it because he is under the law. In fact, when we start holding each one accountable, then there might just be progress or hope for us. You know how a Ferrari was... It's not the name of an impound. The name was, they're not auctioned. They're crushed. They're going to crush the car, but Dubai, they say go try yourself. There are laws everywhere. But I think it is the fact that we do not enforce these laws. That is what happens. So when we do the shock. Yes, that's what happens. Car is the root shock. Imagine, imagine if I just... My car, I don't go to sleep. But let me take a break from bringing us. Are you alive? What? Hello, he brought him you alive. Did we lose him? Oh, sorry. Let's take a look. Don't give him. It's the crushing one that is worth it. I think I would like to buy it back. I would like to have your opportunity to buy it back. But the crushing, watching it, I think I'll pass it on. Can't they talk? I said, how could you offence? Look, this is the definition of stories that touch. And I tell people, today I was driving in lekkie. I was coming out on the torture. And it's a junction where the junction is not aligned. So you can't go straight across. And I was coming to that junction and I knew that this is a hotspot. Last time, the police is always there. And I wanted to make it right. I was perfectly ready to make the left. As I was crossing the traffic lights, I saw the last guy there. I said, I'm flashing the guy. I said, can I go? Look, you don't like stories that touch. I don't like to beg anybody. This is a brand new car. It's all right with you. Let me take Inkechi from Lagos. But you know, Lagos is about the expressway. I've been looking at the expressway. We test your patience. Lagos is about the expressway. We test your patience. Ah, let's take comments. Is it your patience or your organ? Ah, to take away your kidney, your liver, everything. Let's take comments quickly, ladies. Okay, we lost Inkechi. We lost the call. We lost Inkechi. Oh, wow, we're having problems now. Oh, is she alive? Oh, Inkechi, you're alive. Can we hear her? Hello. Hi. My name is Inkechi. I just want to let you make a comment. Go ahead. For your program. Go ahead. We are, it's not as you agree with your opinion. We live in a country where the law is one thing, that the punishment we should, when we implement it, are what we don't. And they're not. People cannot be fooled. We give them, what do you call it? Reformation. Then you break out a law of traffic. They decide whether they are right to you or they don't. In this situation, they implement it. Some people are complaining, some people are not. So push away if Nigeria is going. Thank you. I get the point. And this is what we're saying. So that's why we're saying that the punishment should go across board. So once anything is done, so we're not looking at anybody's case, because she's saying that some people, kidnap people, they give them, what's it called, pardons and all of that. If we start to say come, this thing is an offense. Is what it is. Yes, regardless of who it is. It is what it is. Maybe we'll find a solution, but. Commensurate laws. Because I think I read somewhere in the story where a lawyer was saying that the law wasn't, or the punishment was not commensurate to the crime. To the crime. And there are processes for getting those laws changed and repealed. You have your local houses of assembly, you have your Senate reps, whatever. So this is the time we need to start bringing up these issues. Let's quickly take comments, because we run out of time. Bobby Kennedy from Jalingo says, lawlessness can be curbed in our country, unless if those that make the law abide by it first, then others will follow the trend. We are in a country, especially those in power, E.G. police, army, last mile politicians, E.T.C. go against the laws, and go scoffery without remorse. Until we get it right, we will be experiencing lawlessness. Great topic tonight. Welcome back, Hajiya Uti. This is Austin from Delta. He says the topic is crucial. Even though I don't support lawlessness, I find the auctioning of vehicles impounded for traffic violation as draconian. Okay. It brings to the fore the fear expressed by some persons over the clamor for state police. As the state police government, how many vehicles FRSC treated that way? FRSC imposes fine, subject the airing driver to class lecture, and asks you to go to the bank to pay time. Let me take a comment because that's comment section. God bless you at UTI for saying it as it is. Cribing lawlessness is possible if we are willing to practice being lawful citizens ourselves. Thank you. This one is from Ade. He says, good evening, ladies. Lawlessness can be curbed in Nigeria if we all agree to obey and practice it. UTI is smiling because the House agreed that lawmakers are law breakers. Nigerian government is a paddy paddy government from time immemorial where leaders can make a phone call of an offence committed. Vincent says, greetings, ladies. In my opinion, one of the biggest bane of lawlessness as is the presence of the use of the word abeig as a people, very key. Check most that use the word. Lawlessness and corruption is always present to the extent that some foreign immigration have to print, please know abeig before you enter their country. Imagine banning the word abeig from your vocabulary. Maybe sanity restoration may begin. This is my favorite comment of the day from Wayamdi. He says, globally, there is no national challenge that is without an antidote. In essence, all problems are surmountable, provided there's a political will and practical measures to tackle them. Hence, lawlessness in Nigeria, which is already deeply embedded in DNA of Nigerians, can be addressed. Remember that in his first missionary journey as national leader between 83 and 85, Major General Mohave Dubehari had introduced the war against indiscipline and corruption to exercise the ghost of lawlessness in Nigeria. To an extent, that draconian measure has yielded positive outcome. Absolutely. Advocate's combination of strong punitive measures and sensitization, which is civic education to demystify lawlessness in Nigeria. On that note, before we go, thank you, ladies. Follow us on Instagram, so we're sure Africa can interact with us further. Drop a comment, most importantly. Follow all our engagements on social media, like share, invite your families and friends to watch and follow. Daniel, we are sorry we couldn't take your message today. Let me just apologize ahead. Justice suffers when men refuse to stand firm for what is right. If we don't fight lawlessness, it prevails. If we don't establish the truth in our nations, truth becomes foreign in the country. God says there is no man when there is nobody who stands for the truth. Thank you so much. We'll see you guys tomorrow at 8 p.m. Also bring another great conversation. It part two, actually, to your screen. Stay with us.