 Hey everybody, welcome back from the break for the second session of the course worship ministry Let me go ahead and share my screen once again Okay, we finished seeing the seven roles of a worship pastor Okay, mr. Quickly go through them The first role is worship pastor as a priest and then worship pastor as a prophet worship pastor as a teacher Worship pastor as a pastor as an intercessor as a mentor and as an administrator Okay So all of these again, like I said, I can always say this is not only this this this list is not exhaustive It's not like okay seven points and no more But there's always more to it because the role is dynamic it can keep evolving Developing changing etc etc. Okay more responsibilities can be added, but These were just some of the points that in my opinion thought will make The role of a worship pastor more effective All right This is what we concluded the last chapter with but now in the second session and same page page number 43 We look at the role of the worship team members Okay On one hand you have the worship pastor and his roles and on the other hand you have the worship team members, okay? Worship pastor cannot function on his own He needs to have a team and he needs to have a healthy and an effective team. So you need two hands to clap It's like that right So the worship team includes worship leaders leaders if a church has more than one It includes singers includes musicians the band sound team Sound and setup as we say Put the projection the media team and also the camera team You know like the the media team that involves in the projection that is involved in the projection And in certain churches the dance and the choreography team, you know And there could be more depending on the size of the church or the culture of the church, okay? So these are the potential team members that are part of a worship team of a church of ministry Okay, so what what is their role and what is expected of them? Okay, so the qualifications of a worship team member Have a firm commitment to the team Okay, have a firm commitment to the team to be regular and present whenever required Okay, it could be rehearsal or pre-service a prayer, etc Okay, at this point it's pretty crucial have a firm commitment to the team actually When we get to the point of auditions, which we will in the next section is You know if a person wants to audition for the worship team at apc The minimum requirement is that person Is expected to be attending apc for at least six months At least six months. Okay, that kind of show So, you know, because if every Sunday or every month if that individual is in different different churches The genuine reasons may be genuine or whatever, but it's very hard to To depend on that individual, isn't it because we don't know if that person can be committed on a regular basis So if that if the person is regular to the church, you know that the person will also be You know be regular to the team meetings, you know, will be committed To the team as well. Okay, so having a firm Commitment to the team is very very essential And you know the qualification is to have attitude of enthusiasm and cooperation Who's willing to cooperate? Who's enthusiastic about being part of the worship industry? Who wants to serve? you know That's the attitude you need to be going for must be open to receive correction and instruction Okay This point cannot be stressed on enough If the person does not have an attitude of you know receiving If the person is not teachable That is who is not, you know, if the person is not open to corrections or instructions You know, then it's it's very hard And it can be very dangerous to the entire team. Okay The person should be open to receive correction and instruction And submitted to the authority of the worship pastor and pastor And you know this the last point is actually a bonus. Okay, must be flexible musically means If that person can play more than one instrument great You know, that's just an additional thing, but it's not like a you know Uh, oh, you you can sing if you can't play the keyboard, uh, you know, we don't like you Not that okay If the person is flexible, that's amazing. Nothing like it Okay, so that's this is the role of the worship team members Okay, and then what does that team do one of the key things what a worship team does is rehearsal Okay We'll get into the details of what it is now Ideally it is good for the worship team to have a rehearsal Other than practice before service Prefer preferably midweek Okay, what should happen at a rehearsal? What goes on in a rehearsal? Uh At a rehearsal, you know praise and worship the team spends time in god's presence worshiping in unity Uh teaching and bible study. Okay. There is a small time of sharing and encouragement Okay, there's a discussion, uh, you know about About the songs about the sunday service or whatever it is. Okay the team prays There's also musical rehearsal. The team also practices the songs for sunday service or any In any event that's related to the church Okay, now, please notice that this is all rehearsal. Okay, uh at apc what we do is You know once we know this is the team that is a rostered for this sunday See september 19th the coming sunday me pastor jakes, uh, and you know few few others We we see when everybody is free and when we can meet for rehearsal. Okay, um And so we hire a jam room for two hours or three hours. Whatever the need is based on the need We hire a jam room We meet of meet we meet over there and then so yeah, we go through the songs We have a time of prayer. We have a time of fellowship as in we discuss how and ask how everybody is doing Uh, you know, we we spend time prayer, etc. Etc. So all of that happens in the rehearsal when everybody comes together Like six or seven individuals sometimes more or less Okay, that's what happens in a rehearsal Okay, and we encourage that the team meets for rehearsal At least once a week before they actually go on stage Now what is the difference between practice? A practice is personal and rehearsal is relational Okay, you can say it with your mics muted. Okay, wherever you are say practice is personal and rehearsal is Relational, okay So the team has to have at least one full rehearsal together before coming to leave the service The roster team is expected to learn and practice their individual parts thoroughly before arriving on time at the venue for rehearsal Okay, look at that point. Okay the roster team Is expected to learn and practice their individual parts Okay, so for example This is what means practice the difference between practice and rehearsal Um, I practice alone at home. It's it's personal Okay, the worship leader sends me the song list Uh, you know, he sends the everybody the song list So if my if the rehearsal time for the full band is on saturday at 10 o'clock in the morning Okay, I am not going to go to that rehearsal without listening to the songs without practicing the songs Not like that What I will do through that throughout the week is I will listen to the songs. I will make notes I will learn the keyboard parts or the guitar parts or the bass bass guitar parts or the drums part whichever instrument I have to play I will learn my individual parts of that song That is practice So now when you meet saturday at 10 o'clock in the morning, you are ready for rehearsal Okay, then that becomes a relation is like, okay. Hey, I'm doing this. This is the drum part. What is the guitar part? Okay, and then, you know, you all play together and that becomes a rehearsal Okay, so you practice Alone at home and then you come prepared for your rehearsal and we we encourage individuals to do that. Okay During the rehearsal it's mentioned in the notes The team works on the start or the finish of the songs or the transition between the songs Uh, you know, all of these small details will be worked out during the rehearsal time Okay Uh You know, we talk about okay, I'm going to read this scripture before we start the first song After I finish reading the scripture. Okay The steven the drummer you can give the count start the metronome and start the intro intro of the song So small details like that will be worked during the rehearsal time Okay, but the basic structure of the song the chords for the song, etc Will be learned personally, you know in your private time. Okay, you guys with me Are you able to follow the difference between uh rehearsal and practice? Yeah It's it's okay if if not all of you are musicians. It's absolutely fine But you know, you are going to be a leader or you know, who will be hiring uh worship pastor or whatnot You need to know all of these things. You can question your worship pastor. You know, it's like, okay What is now? How does your team practice? How does your team when do you when does the worship team meet for rehearsal? In all of that, you know, you can set the certain expectations You know as a pastor So all of this you don't need to be a musician to understand but it's just equipping you as a leader. All right guys Okay Then the next thing we look at the role of the band This is which is musicians. Okay the role of the band In the worship team Okay, uh, let's let's just quickly. I mean we we've read these scriptures, but let's just quickly go to uh, you know The scriptures mentioned there We go to first chronicles chapter 15 Then we've read these scriptures before right Okay first chronicles 15 chapter 15 verse 16 It says David told the leaders of the Levites To appoint their brothers as singers to sing Joyful songs accompanied by musical instruments liars harps and symbols Okay, that's just one verse and we go to the next chapter and we see verse 42 If us chronicles chapter 16 verse 42 We see that he man and jerethen were responsible for the sounding of the trumpets and symbols and for the playing Of the other instrumented For sacred songs The sons of jerethen were stationed at the gate Okay, um these see these chapters right from chapter 15 16 17 18 uh till 25 Very very crucial You know in just seeing how david went about organizing worship industry We we saw only from chapter 25, but then all the way from chapter 15 to 25 It's very crucial if you want to go ahead a lot. Okay um So god is raising up musicians who will not simply play for Or play along with Worship But who will themselves worship on their instruments? Okay, uh pay attention to this guys. Okay. God is raising up musicians who will not simply Play for the sunday service songs and go Or play along with You know, I will give two hours of my time every sunday to this church. I will play for them For the worship and then you know, no But god is raising up musicians who will themselves worship on their instruments Okay, who will be who will be worshipers not just musicians Uh, right they're worshiping musicians Musicians are no longer to be mere accompanists, but initiators Worshipers on their instrument Okay, who can prophetically lead inspire worship in the congregation? Okay, um the worship must have a heart of the god Worship must have a heart of the god and must demonstrate a consistent Christian life. Sorry a musician Okay, so this is the role of a musician is not just to be a musician, you know play the keyboards and go off but no They are also called to be a worshiper because they are set apart They are set apart for the ministry of god and they all need to be trained Skilled musically trained and skilled in what they are doing. Okay um So that is the role of the band of the musicians in the team. Okay um An effective worship leader skillfully combines biblical truth with music I'll say that again. Okay an effective worship leader skillfully combines biblical truth Okay with music Okay, when when moses had to find men to oversee the construction of the tabernacle He didn't pass around the sign-up list. Okay. Say, okay. Who always interested just come and sign up Right, he chooses craftsmen whom god has gifted with skills and intelligence. You read that in exodus chapter 36 verse 1 And when david looked for a levi to lead singing he picked canine Because he was skillful at it Under divine inspiration david wrote the music that musicians are to place skillfully on the strings And david himself as king over the people guided them with his skillful hands Okay, uh, this is actually one of my favorite psalms if you can go to psalm 78 verse 72 you'll see uh very quickly what it means Psalm 78 it's the last verse of that psalm psalm 78 verse 72 It says and david shepherded them with integrity of heart with skillful hands. He led them Okay, david shepherded them with integrity of heart In other translation it might it can say david shepherded them with wisdom I'm with skillful hands. He led them. Okay. So in everything that david did he was skilled at it Okay, and in new testament we see that paul referred to himself as a skilled master builder Okay, um, so the role of a musician we saw what their role is Okay, that they are set apart that they're not just musicians, but they are called to prophesy with their instruments They were set apart. They were trained and skilled in their instruments Okay, and having said that now we move is looking at The you know the importance of being skillfully trained Okay, and we saw a few of the leaders who are who were skillful in what they did And this section talks about three things to remember about skill Okay Skill is a gift from god for his glory Okay, your gift your talent um Is a gift from god for his glory Skill must be developed Okay, and skill doesn't make worship more acceptable before god Okay skill alone doesn't make worship more acceptable before god Okay, we look at that now Skill is a gift from god for his glory. Okay, we've all been blessed with a talent with a gift. Okay Some can sing some can paint some can dance some some, uh, you know, some can cook well Uh, and whatnot so everybody is gifted differently, right? But the second point there says skill must be developed Okay most of us I'm not sure if you know of this uh cricket commentator if you watch cricket, you know harsha bogh le You know one of the very famous indian cricket commentators He talks about the difference between Sachin Tendulkar and Vinod Kamli who was another you know Cricketer who grew up who was a classmate schoolmate of sachin And he says that how both of them were talented Both had skill Okay But whereas sachin he he worked on his skill and he got better Whereas vinod kamli he only believed that you know, his talent was enough and did not really work hard at his skill And then his career ended very soon And then uh, I mean if you know anything about sachin, you know what he went on to do So he's celebrated big time, right? Um, so Just knowing that okay, you know, I can do this, you know, I can do this. I'm good at it is not enough You need to work at it. There is always room to get better Okay, there is always scope for you to improve Okay, you will uh The second or the minute you stop learning That's the minute. That's the time you stop growing Okay, so you constantly and consistently seek to learn, you know, keep getting improved every day every day Every day every day. Okay improved. So skill must be developed But having emphasized so much on skill Skill alone doesn't make worship More acceptable before god Okay, it If your heart is in the right place Because god always sees the heart, isn't it if the if your heart of worship is in the right place What skill does is it and it it enhances your worship? Okay, it becomes it just becomes more beautiful more presentable Okay, um, so with all the benefits of the mass outpouring of worship songs in the past decade There have been some downsides One is the belief that a sincere heart A guitar and a knowledge of three chords qualify someone to lead worship in the church Fortunately more and more churches are realizing that it takes skill to put music and biblical truth together in such a way That people actually worship god rather than the leader The music themselves and other idols Okay, so it is possible that your skill can become an idol Okay, uh, the skill that skill may come from natural gifting training or experience But it is an important part of what a worship leader does Okay, you combine biblical truth with music Okay, if that is not happening if you're not combining biblical truth, um, then it's just a noisy gong, right? As as as god says like you worship me With your lips, but your heart is far away from me Okay, there are so many skilled musicians out there who are not necessarily Their heart might not be in the right place Okay, so just watch out for that. So that is the role of the three things to remember about skill Okay From there on we we look at the skills That a worship leader is expected to possess Okay, the skills of the worship leader Uh, the worship leader is both an art and a science. Okay, we can learn to do it better and better Worship leading is an art in that it takes musical intuition and hold natural gift to lead well Okay, so some of the some of the skills that are expected of a worship leader is effective musical skill Goes without saying organization or administration preparation experience practice Leadership ability relational ability calling character Intuition natural gifting and god's grace, of course Okay, um The skills of a worship leader, uh, you know, you know that a worship leader is skillful if is uh, you know, if he's If he has an effective musical skill his knowledge over the instrument his knowledge over the the music, okay An organization and preparation Okay, uh, is the worship leader always saying, okay, uh, you know, I'm going to be prophetic prophetic all the time spontaneous You know, I'm not going to put a song list together Uh, or is he going to prepare? Is he going to put a song list together prepare well practice prepare for the practice prepare for the rehearsals Uh, is he organized, uh, you know, that's another important skill and of course experience Uh, You know for how many years you've been doing this, uh that matters as well. Does he practice? I'm saying does he or she practice? Okay leadership ability Uh Worship leader needs to have leadership ability Okay, and that topic, uh, we can just talk on leadership for an entire semester Right, and that's what you'll did, isn't it? So if you talk on leadership for an entire semester or more, um, there's masters in leadership and all that you can do so Um leadership is essential, uh to say the least As an important skill for worship leader Right, and then his relational ability Relational ability, um What what what does this point mean like are you, you know Are you a relatable person? Like, uh, you know can can an individual approach and speak with you. Are you approachable? Uh, like do you understand? Okay? Um after the church service is done. Are you there around to meet with the church people? Okay to meet with the congregation Oh, I do you just uh, you know disappear as soon as the church service is done Okay, this is very important because uh The congregation Is if they are only seeing you on the stage all the time And they are not seeing you off stage and if they are not able to connect With you off stage It becomes very hard for them to relate and for you to relate with each other Okay, so relational ability is one of the one of those points is that You are there to build a relationship With the congregation and the congregation with you Okay The calling of a worship leader and the character of the worship leader Is essentials It's there's this old saying. I don't know how old this is Says your anointing will take you up, but it is your character that it will keep you up there Okay, should I say that again? Okay, your anointing will take you up But it is your character that it will keep you up there Okay in so many ways sol was uh, you know king sol was also anointed The first king of israel But his character became questionable towards the end which was the result of his downfall, isn't it? um So that that's crucial guys Uh intuition being sensitive to god's leading. Uh, you know, he's dependent on god's grace. So these are all just again just You know a few The skills of the worship leader that's expected of him. Okay him or her All right, uh, again, let me just pause here and ask any questions. Uh, do you have any questions anything that you want to share Kiran Dave any questions Is making sense nilam. Okay Thomas all okay Okay, all right. Okay. Um, so next section we're going into Uh, the what are the character traits of the effective worship leader? Okay, just remember this, uh chapter Is talking about the organizational aspects of worship ministry Okay, this chapter is just emphasizing on the practical steps practical methods and the organizational aspect of a worship ministry That's why you know, there's so much of um A theory kind of explanations to this chapter. Okay um So what are the character traits of the of an effective worship leader? In a worship leader a pastor should be primarily looking for a disciple of jesus who is strong in character Okay In a worship leader a pastor should be primarily looking for a disciple of jesus Who is strong in character? And not simply a full of gifting or full of themselves In other words Who a person is in the secret place of their hearts must be infinitely more important to us than how they play their instrument Sing or function in front of a crowd Okay Who a person is in the secret place of their hearts must be infinitely more important to us than how they play their instrument Sing or function in front of a crowd Okay So having said that it is also true that we must value the powerful, uh, the power of beautiful and well played worship music Okay, uh, so again, it's talking about a combination of intimacy with the lord And his skill on on you know, I'm playing an instrument. Okay um I've always looked at it like this. Okay guys, just pay attention here Remember we say ministry is about serving right, uh, the word ministry literally comes from the root word, which means cup bearer Okay cup bearer like neha maya was like, you know, you're a server you serve. Okay um So just just stay with me here. Okay, let's say, you know You you go to the most beautiful fine dining restaurant. Okay five-star hotel. Okay, and and you see some of these shows on, uh, you know On travel and living, you know And all these top hotels they they show that okay, they They iron the the table, you know the cloth they put on the table. You know, so it's just beautiful. It's clean It's without wrinkles and you know the way they keep the plates and the way and the distance between the the What is that a glass water glass? Okay, they measure that and if there's another glass they measure the distance between that between the water glass and say the wine glass or whatever um And you know the distance between the fork and the knife and the spoon everything Is on point right everything is set perfectly on the table Okay, um Now what is happening is so this is take an example So let's say me and my wife, uh, we go to that restaurant for a dinner Okay, this five-star hotel and everything is set beautifully perfectly everything is measured like really well, okay um And then we have the person who serves the food for us. Okay And uh me and my wife, we are having this, uh, you know very intimate conversation You know, it's like a candlelight dinner Whatever is okay. We're looking at into each other's eyes. Yeah, I'm telling her how much I love her and she tells me how much She loves me etc etc Okay, so we're having this intimate moment, uh over dinner and then let's just say like a bang A plate falls, you know, someone drops the plate or you know, someone Drops the glass or a spoon or what? So what happens? What is that immediate reaction that you know at moments like that? Is that we we get you know distracted, isn't it from the conversation that you're having with your friend and you Immediately turn and look back is like what just happened. What just happened? Yes or no? Or is it just me who does that? right, so What i'm trying to say is If you're not skilled enough or on your instrument right, um Right if you play a wrong chord You know if you don't end the song correctly if you don't start the song correctly And if you don't sing the song in the correct key as expected All of that Becomes like that person who dropped a plate that distracted it all of those as like a distraction In a person, you know for a person in the congregation who's having that intimate Moment with jesus during worship, right? So that you know in the congregation This is a person who's engaged with jesus who's worshiping, you know fix And bang something goes wrong something falls, you know There's a wrong chord being played and it's like, okay, you know that their moment with jesus is just being disturbed Right, so it's very important that That there's this beautiful balance of anointing and skilled musicianship Simply because you can serve better Okay, you can serve skillfully that's the whole point of it. All right um, so here a worship leader is a spiritual leader who pastors the congregation Who shepherds the congregation who leads the congregation? Every time they step up to lead worship For that reason all the qualities that we look for in any spiritual leader in the church Be they a pastor or an elder small group leader you pastor Or worship leader are similar Okay, so what questions should you as a senior pastor should be asking before you Take into consideration or hire this person as a worship leader or as a worship pastor Here are some of the questions that you should ask First thing are they humble? Okay, and do you think this is important guys humble humility? It's very important Why is it important? Why is it very important? What is it about humility that is important? Especially especially in music field People knowingly unknowingly they're proud about their talents and gifting So when we worship god, they should have the You know reverence towards god, they should always recognize it's not about talent It's all about him and we are came to worship him so Any servant of god even not only the worship minister even the pastors can also Any leader can also the pride will Can affect the whole ministry The atmosphere everything Yeah, thanks thomas. Thank you anybody else Dave Siddharth If you look at how the angel Lucifer He was fallen because of the pride So as a as a worship minister Our pride can come very easily So keeping out yourself humble is one of the three points to To go as far as god wants us to go Yeah, awesome. Yeah, thanks Dave. Yeah, uh anybody else Siddharth, why do you think it's important? What does humility do? Yeah, I think for me humility is a place of Like in a place next to grow so like we can grow more The more we have the more we grow something like that because I remember when I was trying like there are times and I have Not humble and I was just I couldn't grow more. No, I was just going the past. So I think it's a place to grow when we humble ourselves Yeah, thank you. Uh, thank you Siddharth Uh Yeah, I think, uh, you know, we all know Actually, everybody knows the importance of humility. It's just that what we do with that knowledge, you know, do we act? You know, that's the second question, isn't it? But uh, are they humble is that's such an important question to ask For a worship leader because the first worship leader like Dave was talking about first the first worship leader had Serious issues with submission and humility Uh, it was just full of pride and we see that in Isaiah chapter 14, right? Isaiah chapter 14 verse 12 onwards It talks about Lucifer Right. Uh, it says how you have fallen from heaven. Oh morning star son of the dawn You have been cast down to the earth I'm reading from Isaiah chapter 14 Okay, Isaiah 14 verse 13 onwards You said in your heart I will ascend to heaven I will raise my throne above the stars of god I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain I will ascend above the tops of the clouds. I will make myself like the most high That's verse 14. I will make myself like the most high But you were brought down to the grave to the depths of the pit, okay You see that line there the verse 14. I will make myself like the most high It simply means I will make myself like god I will in verse 13. It says you said in your heart. I will ascend to heaven I will raise my throne above the stars of god Okay, that's those are all the statements of pride And do you remember the one of the lines that he uses To you know against eve to tempt her You know He says, you know god told you not to eat of this fruit because if you eat You will become like Him You get what i'm saying You eat of this, you know, he knows that if you eat of this fruit eve You will become like the most high That same poison that kind of infected Lucifer The same thing he used it against humanity. So Here's the thing the source of pride is satan The source right, you know the origin of pride The the root of all sin Is connected it goes to the one thing called pride But the root and the source of everything beautiful and heavenly Is humility Because jesus is the humility of god manifested But everything about jesus is is just him. Uh, is this human screaming humility? So the source of humility is jesus So basically when you're asking that question, are they humble you're actually asking Are they like jesus? Okay, I would uh, I'm not sure how many of you are into reading books But uh, I would suggest this book by i'm just typing in the chat section It's a book by andrew maré. It's called humility beauty of holiness Okay, I've just typed the name of the book. Uh, I mean if you're interested you can buy it Uh, you can listen to listen to it for free on youtube Andrew maré humility Which is the beauty of holiness. It's it's It's one of the must read books for christians. I would say it's a it's a very small book as well. It's really Trust me. It's going to I guarantee that it's going to impact Your walk with god is something so beautiful about, you know, studying humility. Okay So that's the first question and the most important question you will ever ask Are they humble or are they like jesus? And then every other question follows Do they have a vibrant secret life with god? And that will most of the times be seen as a fruit in You know as an overflow of their public ministry Are they able to take direction or correction? That means are they teachable? Are the accolades or a stage or affirmations of people too important to them is stage on the spotlight more important than god Are they doing what they do to serve or to gain respect? Their intentions. Okay, you're trying to gauge their intention Are they good husbands or wives of a brother? Are they good sisters, you know at home? Because as we discussed Um, how is their relationship with the family members? Right? It's one of the relationships that makes or breaks Isn't it? Are they willing to train others to take over for them? Are they willing to train others to take over for them? Or did you know that, you know, you wanting to teach another person Is also a sign of humility? You know when when a person comes to you and asks, okay, it's like, hey, can you teach me how to do this? You can respond in two ways Right, uh, I can say yeah, sure. Of course. I will teach you what I know and that is a beautiful sign of humility or you can respond saying No, no, no if I teach you what I know then you you know, uh then You will become better than me or uh, you know, I don't want to share my secret with you You see what I'm saying, right? Uh, you don't want to have people like that on your team Uh, you know Again just going back to first chronicles 25 in david's worship team, there were teachers as well as students, right? There is such a beautiful blend of people in his team. Okay, the next question. Are they skilled at what they do? Are they skilled at what they do? Are they teachable and eager to learn? Uh, they willing to quietly care for the poor as much as they are willing to stand on stage Okay, that means, uh, you know one of the greatest commandments When jesus was asked is love the lord your god with all your heart soul mind and strength And then love your neighbor as yourself, right loving your neighbor simply means Uh, not right the house neighbor or anything. Yes, of course them too, but you know the The downtrodden the less fortunate in your society in your community. Uh, do you care for them? Does that excite you as much as it excites playing music on a sunday morning? If that doesn't excite you if blessing the poor if reaching out to the administering to the poor doesn't excite you And if only the lights and the stage attracts you, um, that's another question about character Hmm. Is that the right person? Uh, you know Are they loving gentle? Are they kind and generous? Uh, do they have a substantial, you know Interior life with god that reflects itself in their outward lifestyle Do they have all of this? Okay. Um, and I believe, uh, I I will stop here at page 46 of this section, okay of What are the character traits of the effective worship leader? Um, and I think, uh Now I hope that you know that all of these, uh, you know will help you in your in your journey as a leader and in ministry You know in in choosing the right person You know into into your ministry and whatnot. Okay, uh any questions guys any thoughts that you'll want to share Okay, I'll actually stop sharing my screen Um, kandan, uh, you okay everything cool any questions prince? any, um No, uh, as you said Have to check are they humble? so How can we check when we Means, uh, we cannot ask the question directly. Are you humble like that? Yeah, yeah, so I think it's you know, uh All right, in a way it will it will be you know shown in their life as well like as a fruit, you know, uh thomas for example Uh, see us worship, right? Is a sign of humility that means, uh, like Hebrew originally was a pictorial language Right, it it's like they were it was written on walls. They would carve on walls That is how they communicated initially so the symbol Or a sign for worship was Face down complete face down, you know Everything it was that was a sign of complete surrender. It was a sign of complete humility Okay, uh, so what I'm trying to say is If a person is willing to bow before god in worship and not willing to bow before you know As in bow as and be humble Uh and loving Towards men. So then there is this contradiction right, uh, and um So that's one way to observe and then the other way is, you know, you go to god and you know and pray You know and ask for discernment Uh, sometimes, you know The worship team Is not having a humility I if I observe certain things where they're proud and looking for a spotlight and these kind of things. How can we Gently guide them or tell them what because if you say then they will take uh, you know, in a way I'm something pointing out there like that and all they won't easily take Especially the person have the pride cannot take easily the corrections corrections. How can we handle these things? Yes, um, so I mean It just really comes down to the senior pastor and the worship pastor is you know One of the roles that we saw uh as a worship pastor was a role of a teacher. Okay, uh, I mean It says, you know people people perish without lack of knowledge Right. So when we teach when you you know It's like, hey, this is what is expected of a worship team. This is what makes a worshiper Okay, uh, you know when you teach about humility when you teach about different aspects of worship Uh, and you prayerfully believe that okay, this is going to impact the members the individuals of the team And if it still doesn't like I said if there are members and I'm sure there will be because uh, you know People are people Imagine if the whole world was uh humble. Okay, unfortunately in and it's not But then you as a leader have to step in and you know Confront and correct You have to do that and pastor ashes does it? I have to do it pastor. Jakes does it, you know, if something that is if something is not right and you see it's not healthy And that will infect It will send negative vibes through the entire team You have to cut it at stop it at the root. It's like, hey, I'm observing. This is what has been happening Uh, this is not acceptable. This is not part of our culture This is not this is we do not believe in this kind of an attitude or character So, uh, you know, you either change or you have to step down. It's as simple as that When you have to confront you have to confront thomas Thank you Yeah, okay. Yeah, I mean on the side note another skill to how uh to grow as a leader Is uh, one of the things that you can look up, you know, is uh, Biblical confrontation like how do you confront? Uh, you know such uh, such incidents and and let's see. I mean, thanks for bringing this up Maybe, uh, you know, there is a certain video That I I'll you know, kind of show next week, uh, you know, how you can go about correcting and confronting Uh, the worship team members when necessary when needed Okay All right, so I'll stop the recording now