 So, welcome to another episode of the A Jump Up Gast And welcome back Mr Baker Thank you for inviting us into your home Oh yes, this is my home We don't know where we can get them on these days We say that because we are in the Baker's arms Usually in the Baker's arms Can't move the mountain to Mojave Mojave to the mountain Mojave and the mountain, neither of them were in fucking Swindler One of my legs Probably somewhere It has been a while, guys We're checking on the way here But I think we haven't heard from you on this since Christmas time Yeah, so this is my first 2019 pub class Hopefully it won't be the last Happy New Year Happy Easter We've done that Happy Birthday on Birthday Happy Birthday to you Happy Birthday to you Don't look a day under 48 I've been training this morning I've been growing a bit of beard, haven't I? I can't remember the last time I saw you King Shaving Yeah, when I see some of your publicity photos on mine I get King Shaving, I think Who is this man? I think I've changed most of them now to be it Be it focused And now I'm going to save the toilet I've got a little surprise for you on that front Oh dear That sounds better than it is You've got a beard, it's not much of a surprise It's a tiny wispy little beard A tiny wispy little one Daddy Beards, Mummy Beards Baby Beards Visual reference there for the people listening on the pub class You want to do that later? Yes What was I going to say? Start the music Party starts Walking on sunshine Sounds like it Sounds like the jukebox on What was I going to say? What was I going to say? What was I going to say? What were we drinking? Baker's Arms and Swindon What? Tell me something interesting about Baker's Arms and Swindon It's in Beechcroft Row It's in Swindon We literally picked this because it is the Baker's Arms It's got two dance boards It's got quite a foodie It's an arkles park It's Swindon based brewery I think so We don't really know anything interesting about it We just thought seeing as we were having you on and there was a Baker's Arms and Swindon We should There isn't a Baker's Arms in Swindon There's two Baker's Arms in Swindon What happened earlier on Jeff? I put in Because I'm driving today So I'm only allowed half a drink And I put into my car Take me to the Baker's Arms And it took me to the Baker's Arms But not the right Baker's Arms The closed Baker's Arms The open Baker's Arms You've done the God Arms before, haven't you? Yeah, I was in Swindon So is that like a Watt's Arms? It should be I've tried to find one To point to us to a Watt's related pub Somewhere in the UK Maybe I'm drinking Hurricane Appointed Hurricane It's very cold Really cold My drink is very cold as well My side is super cold When something is cold The taste isn't that strong Right If you put something in the fridge it doesn't taste Yeah Is that why people do that for a Watt's Arms? Because it tastes horrible Sorry Watt's Arms This is something nutty But that's all I'm getting really Lots of nuts It's quite nice Being just in a way that tastes in a different way It's warmer And you guys are drinking from a really exotic It's something very unusual to find In pubs these days It's kind of strong though Classy strong though Let me just have a quick taste I'm strong whereas it's my favourite side It's more the dry side It's dry I'm not too bad It's cold Which is the main thing Your husband has to taste it I'm fine with that Jeff offered me the strong way With dark fruit I don't want to drink that Because I'm not 12 I've never seen our last pub go What was I going to say? Do we have the same cheers To anyone today? So we've got Jamie Collins Jamie And Andy Jamie and Andy So Jamie and Andy cheers Thank you for subscribing So what percentage do I get of that lad? The jigs at the bottom Did you have a nice bonus? We're going to give it a little bit more Desperate modules on Christmas Hi There's a need to be a free Cool What's new? What's new? Well I've been to Austin Global Squung Gathering in Austin We mentioned that last time We toasted you last time I do listen to your podcast When I'm not on it To everyone I'm on I do like the slightly sarcastic put-downs That happened Thank you for that B.S. I went to the Global Squung Gathering in Austin I've got a little report for you if you're interested So by the way People on the camera will see this I've actually written this down Last time I did a report on the Gathering I forgot everything So when Jeff asked me questions Things happened So I made a few notes for myself Guys did you notice my few notes? I've only got a 35 minute profit So I'll just buckle in Buckle in So first things first We have the trainer This is where the high level certification Come together It's actually the day before the Gathering Yes on the Sunday And the one we had in Austin For the CSTs Team coaches Was actually not joking The best retreat I've ever been to I'll tell you why Because it was because of Howard and Melissa Howard's sublet Is the chief product owner I think I did For Nigel That's not going to go off He's the chief product owner of the Squung Gathering Which is the new replacement for the CEO world Oh so it is a replacement for the CEO Yeah the CEO MD's gone Now there's a product owner and Squung Master That goes into Squung Melissa Boggs I believe is the chief Squung Master And they did a A duet so to speak A double act presentation on Where they see the Squung Master going And it was just brilliant It was led by the heart It was with the work agile values and principles Which is really good because in the past We had leadership that has not been aligned With the values and principles of the world Of transforming the world of work But even better actually getting stuff done So not just talking the talk But walking the walk Actually practically getting stuff done Not just telling people what they want to hear And that really aligned the room That sense of purpose There's a load of sessions during the day On a variety of Squung Alliance things Not necessarily by them but by Squung Alliance staff On a variety of their particular topics But they top the day Just a little 10-50 minutes We're transforming the world of work We're an alliance, we're a non-profit We're in this for the people and not in this for the cash Which is That's something I've heard Howard say Time and time again at various presentations It's about impact not revenue Yeah and that's really key That aligned a lot of people But also understanding how practically to do that It's all about a good walk Talking the talk How do we help us as a community Drive that forward And help genuine change happen Things like some of the certification programs That are coming up Improving that They're making the Squung Alliance A real agile organisation Possibly the only real agile organisation on earth So that self-organising teams Are empowered Doing the work So clearing out a lot of the historical hierarchy In the alliance or in any organisation And actually getting it To a place where we're having Real empowered self-organising teams Lead on this Leading the way with people like Howard and Melissa Support them and do that What kind of teams are they? Teams like events but teams also like certification Teams like What's their own Things like audience outreach Membership teams like that But being grouped around needs Not to say grouped around skill sets So and the vast majority Of the alliance staff are completely aligned with that So the Squung Alliance has flattened This hierarchy hugely It's got real flat structure now Really pushing away forward What's interesting is they've been looking for case studies To help them move forward Looks like they're going to have to be the case study No one else is doing it like this Agile with their organisations So it's really good to see an organisation Doing what it talks about Rather than Talking but not walking So that was really interesting for me The other interesting thing for me was I did a couple of... We had an open space on the street We had an open space So there's a lot of things on a variety of subjects like this A couple that I was interested in I put one in, one Cal Certified Agile Leadership The name of it Let's talk about Cal, baby Let's talk about you and me Let's talk about all the good things All the bad things, that maybe Yes, so two people will laugh But they were the right two people Which is the correct thing That's what I was thinking about The other one I was thinking about Colour Me Bad That's I should have done that joke So a couple of people got the joke I wanted to talk about Cal Certified Agile Leadership Not about the mechanics of it Or getting that from learning objectives But actually hear people's story behind it Why are they doing it What's the narrative behind Cal Because I've been struggling to understand that a little bit What's the aim of this Why are they in this, why are we doing this So I wanted to hear other people's stories I made a few notes for myself on that What was interesting for me was We did get into the weeds quite quickly Of mechanics So a lot of people, when I said Tell me your story behind your Cal A lot of people went straight to the Mechanics Leadership, bill joiners work Spiral Dynamics Which is all like the what Aren't know the why And that got quite interesting Talking about why people are offering this So there's a few traders there Who come from a leadership background Which was quite interesting Some traders there were On a middle management journey Trying to help people Help middle managers become more practical With Agile And some people were trying to look on the journey Where are we actually going so far How do I take someone who's a middle manager And raise them to the next level To be a future potential leader That's quite interesting about that The two different tones Because that's what I was struggling a little bit with And one company were talking about how They do two versions around course One version for C level management For leaders And one version for the middle managers to aspire to If you're flattening the hierarchy Why should there be a difference I think the idea is you're trying to raise Future leaders Is Cal for future leaders A lot of graduate programs But not for graduates People graduating onto real leadership Hopefully with a flattened hierarchy There'll be less middle management positions So did you decide your own narrative Yeah, I feel when I was just talking about the room Because I'm looking to build my own Certified Agile leadership I've done a lot of work on that But I had a lot of the bits But without the overall narrative And I think I found the narrative for me Because for me the narrative is about Agile leadership And not just about leadership So I'm not really interested in doing a leadership course There's millions out there, they're quite good We mentioned about how do we bring Agile to leadership And trust me, that totally And so that could be aspiring leaders Or current leaders bringing Agile to the experience So that's what I like about that So I got a lot of value about it actually So how many people, just broadly would you say Were in that retreat, how many attendees 200 Yeah, 200 people I'd say So that's a fair number There was about 25 in Cal Maybe about 20 In the Cal one So I found that quite interesting My big way was when I was bringing together The package, it was just going to be Certified Scrum Master for leaders In a basically high level Hey, here's Scrum, I didn't want to do that There's no point in doing that But finding that extra journey in an agile aspect That would be quite useful for me Harry, there was some other stuff in there About just as an alliance How do trainers work together with alliance How do coaches and trainers interact It's quite interesting in America It's quite different than over here In America a lot of the certified trainers like ourselves Tend to be solely training And solely doing public training So running public courses In cities around America And of course this causes some strife They overbook each other People turn up in the same town the same day It causes some tension I think in Europe we don't seem to have a lot less of that I don't know about you, but I do a lot less public training And vital training And mostly in-house There was a lot of conversation on how they not like To be in trouble for each other But more interesting for me was just how do we Better communicate with each other as well So that was quite interesting In terms of trainers, how do we engage We're competitors, can be true But we also need to be agile And we're a collaborative as well We can't just treat each other as adversaries There's many things just about how to communicate Better in line to each other So you know we have a trainer message board Where sometimes the conversation can get Colourful Some people have checked out that message board Because of its colourful nature And so people are talking about how to Better communicate Online to each other In a way that is constructive It's a little challenging but constructive I thought it was quite interesting as well There was some experiments So I don't want to give too much into them here But things like forward models Where you can have group moderators We always talk about self-organising teams Needing facilitators That type of thing It's getting quite big For that community team There's quite a lot of knowledge And so having some sort of facilitation And that can be quite interesting So what I liked about that was It was the group self-organising Answers to its own complex problems Which the joke is You would expect us as agile people to do that But the amount of agile coaches I meet You don't know We're like herding cats Yeah, kind of What else is going on now Hi there There's also an interesting conference They had a CSP Certified Scrum professional The idea being a little space for Some of the more mid-level certifications So they can have some one-to-one chat If they want to mix privately A little bit of a club lounge I wasn't too sure of the idea Was it a bit exclusive? That was my work A bit exclusive But turns out Because the Scrum Alliance is not that disciplined Everyone came to the room anyway There was no bounce on the door So everyone just came in and had a chat And the people who wanted to come and have a chat did And it was quite nice having a little Off-top space I think it was labelled as the CSP lounge But we had a lounge area In London The venue didn't lend itself very well to it But with the idea of a breakout space It was more quiet in the coffee So the idea was good for one-to-one chats So a few of us went in there Had some chats for conversations Almost like an informal coaches clinic You know these gatherings, they always have the official Coaches clinic where people go and get help It was kind of an adjunct to that So we all sit down and have a chat And have a conversation So a few of us did that It was quite nice for an actual room So conference proper started Monday morning Dan Pink It's a big It's a big draw Isn't it? Surely in terms of numbers Yeah Huge draw, huge money But I think huge value Was he worth it? He brought in more people than the cost I know that So that's already paid for himself Like a top line I always think about wrestling In professional wrestling You have a card of wrestlers To put their bum on the seat every 18 inches Now some wrestlers are what they call Headlines, they bring loads of people in They may not be the greatest wrestling on earth But they bring loads of people in A good show, a box office Ric Flair, Hulk Hogan That's what Pink was He did a good stuff His content was good, really good He was really engaging, really interesting There were some sessions in the actual On the card of the gathering That were probably better He did the content These are like the wrestlers who wrestle for 30 minutes And know their stuff, but they're not headliners So Pink gets you in the door But these guys on the card Give the full content But he really added value, he wasn't just a headliner Do we think, just for the benefit Do we need to remind Or establish who Dan Pink is I'll be made an assumption then Dan Pink wrote the book Drive Which is the famous Tom Lee Marthory purpose book In New York Best Seller He's basically a great author Who takes a lot of sociology Anthropology, economics, literature And turns it into an easily digestible form For the main story He's writing for Al Gore There we go, thank you So he basically, his stuff was on about Timings, so beginnings, middles and ends Right He had the greatest bit of noise ever Which is, if ever you have a doctor's appointment Or a hospital appointment, go in the morning Because there's a range of research Showing doctors makes like Four times the mistakes in the afternoon Or four times the errors in your dentistry In the afternoon to the morning So if you take one thing in this presentation Do your doctor's appointment, your dentist And everything in the morning Is that anything to do with Dr. Cezanne Petit It's timey, it's a variety of things And so he did a lot I don't want to get too much into his detail He did a book on it, I think called When or something Yeah, fairly new It was a little bit, not too hard But the idea was The beginnings, middles and ends were quite interesting I understand that people waver at the midpoint In decisions and projects And work, how people need Endings that elevate, endings that excite Endings that close, not endings that bring them down So this is all really Really interesting stuff He also had like midpoints In all projects, basically people waste half the time Pervaricating, get to pretty much the half Where you might, it could be a two-hour project A two-year project, get to halfway The science is going again, that's when they go We need to do something about this and get going And so what was really interesting was how he lined up He was actually quite enthusiastic about Scrum To a certain extent You guys don't have this problem with how you work But many other people do He called episodes So the term I use a lot Episodes of work If you have a shorter episode You get to that wobbly midpoint In one year Two weeks split, it's one weekend That was quite interesting as well Did he do his homework on Scrum or not? He did a little bit He kind of knew what it was He mentioned things like sprints and stuff He got one week wrong too He knows about it He knows about it, he can weapons it a bit Because a lot of points he was making That you may not suffer from this actually Because X, we have closure at the end of every time box So you do that, you want endings that elevate Endings that give experiences Where I feel like you're getting somewhere Which we do all the time What are the consequences of the wobbly midpoint? Well there's three causes He said if you're miles behind And you hit the wobbly midpoint You give up If you're just in front It doesn't help If you're just behind And you hit the wobbly midpoint You like to finish better than earlier And the people are slightly in front of you Oh we got a high try So rather than Miles behind you give up He talked something about chocolate His pleasure elevates He did a bit of an instant experimentation I can't describe it now About eating chocolates If you know you're going to have five chocolates And you have the fifth one Elevation to the fifth one Oh this is my chocolate If you don't know how many chocolates you're going to have And you just stop it how the terrible You don't get the final pleasure on the bottom My daughter was eating Fish fingers and chips I know sausages are some of that There's something on her plate And she had a number of them Three on the plate I said why am I going to eat that I said why that's the best one Even though they looked completely identical There was something The last roller Dessert at the end of a meal Enough to give them your last roller That ending is an elevate thing It's actually going to make me change my course Because certified scrum master when I won it I prioritise it Highest priority first I get one leg But it doesn't elevate Who really wants to finish on the burn down challenge So I was doing that to risk reduce the cost But nothing in terms of an episode of a course Experience Maybe on an end or something that elevates Maybe some exercise or something that brings people up at the end So it's making me think that a little bit as well That was quite useful Quite like that Then what do I do So I made my notes for myself here Bo, do you put them between 59 minutes and 12 months? I'm doing a product at the end Do you do it at the end of the start of the meal I'll see them doing something like that at the end Simulation at the end So I try and finish my CSN courses On the second The final part of the exercise Where they build their product I suppose you do something similar in your leg So The thing that we finish the courses Is basically the demonstration And because they've had a previous sprint Which has never gone very well They finish on a better sprint So you're finishing with a positive experience Of completing Something which is sufficient quality That is working So trying to end A bit of a positive People leave the primary recency The effect is that people remember the first thing That they get Delivered in their time Because I was thinking about that as a coaching A lot of coaches take off, don't they? They go and they've got their 6 month gig Work, work, work, work Then at the end of the tip is the way the end dies And the contract is done I think it should be nice as a coach To have an ending that elevates So we know your ending is coming soon You try and build your crescendo at the end Of the experience I then went into Brent Bartons He did it on Entropy basically And worked down the top layer somewhere Suddenly on the lines of entropy In agile transformation So the idea that agile transformation Entropy is the rate of change You've got the degree in that haven't you I should know that Entropy is like the decaying down to a steady state Something like that So I went to that Brent was my mentor To my CSTM He was the one So after you handed me off to him He looked after me all the way through Which I remember correctly was two emails And one was after Four pops of him saying You're going to help my client Sorry but that's not true Brent But he did a really interesting one About how your agile implementation Will not survive this next reorganization So people give these agile transformations Or whatever And he says most of them are fourth or third Agile transformation They're taking two or three shots at it And every time they get going But nicely as a reorganization It collapses like a house of cards He was talking about trying to do something there And I thought it was interesting For me what I took from that session Was about changing organizations Not changed organizations There is no agile end states We're trying to go to organizations that change Like a lot of people's agile transformations Which is quite the one word anyway Transmations are trying to think of an end state Like a robot changing When in fact it needs to be a constantly manageable environment That's why I took it from this session That was cool His advice was Own it Prioritize and fund it and make it last I guess it's obvious advice really But it's really important The organization to own it So it's not an outsider word It's not going to grow is it And then make it last Try and build it into the organizational structure Oh he said another interesting one Which I quite like It wasn't really part of his presentation It was just a sidebar Which is just Is a dirty word It's just a small chain It's just a small chain It's just a small chain It couldn't be just Minimize someone's contribution The other session I did was a Judy Neha CST She did a session on Abuser stories Which I thought was quite fun Yeah use abuser stories though Negative percent As a thief I want to crash your system As a hacker I want to steal your data Which I thought was quite fun I do something similar I've never called it abuser stories though So quite like the title Refutation Is that the word? Refute something Refute Whatever that word is Refute to eat criteria So the idea of the front of the story As a hacker I want to As data when I get all your sales Then the acceptance criteria How do I stop this happening So the acceptance criteria I need to do this and this To make sure the front of the card cannot happen Of course she said she can't say cannot Impossible is impossible But make it as hard as possible to happen That was quite a nice way of making the acceptance criteria So I've done that negative percent Of the word Is that one? No Judy She's on attack Monday mingle Always good Monday mingle Always good For those of you who have never been to a gathering before Monday mingle is just a big piss up Some people don't drink But it is a big party Social gathering Social gathering of everyone So this year was fun It was in a Now for the Americans who listened to this Which I'm sure are many Dozens of Americans It was somewhere called Austin City Limits Which I've been told Some American TV shows to appear on Top of the Pops Some sort of country Used to be filmed there This is where Blah blah blah Something like that It was just a big auditorium There's some country band playing Quite good as well Barbecue food was quite nice And in the end some did karaoke Which wasn't so nice Which songs did you ruin? I enjoyed the silence People were wishing they had some silence They were very much Dave Fire Dave Fire Wanted to sing Wonderwall But he wanted some company I'll go I'll help him out I'll go and play with him And then he ran away Halfway through the evening So I ended up having to sing Wonderwall Which was not great It's just not great No What I would say What I would say Is what I make up for in Tarran What I lack in Tarran I made it up for in gusto And I started booking my voice to Eater When we So that's that really How does it go? I don't even try I don't even see it I'll do the guitar You don't buy it? No So that's day one Done You can edit this I think we'll need to 31 minutes in Day two was open space all day It went very well this year I felt A lot of people didn't know how open space works Like always They did the whole day dedicated They had a thin stream of conference sessions Running in the background Mostly Not like big speakers Not like you I spoke in the open space So On open space About 30 people took part Still 500 odd people It was a long To get the market It took a while Took a long time I did a couple I had a couple of people come up to me When I was talking And I kept saying I'm not talking Having this one off But then My ego got the better of me So I thought I'll put something in the open space We'll have a group discussion Was that your calving? No, it was about identifying agile coaches So I did all those videos I thought I'd just I'm in that volume It's called jump scares I'll keep you interested But what I would say I thought I'd just do something on that But it was very off the cuff So I didn't know any of the content It's like all these things I planned it to be a workshop We'll do a workshop together What do you think I can Mind your presentation time I felt slightly bad You sit there Let me talk Just wind him up and let him go It's free content So we had a chat about that There's a lot of actual genuine coaches in there A scrum master of Spidey B coaches Just trying to watch out for some common flaws Some people had very similar patterns they mentioned So it was quite interesting People brought up some ideas I said let's put it on the board And then as I kept talking They were like oh that's actually the idea So I lined back up with a different name Which I thought was quite interesting Can you give me an example of my little mind So things like pairing Clubs Meetup groups Things like that A scrum master community So there was one they called Intervention And I was like I don't know that one That's put up on the board And I have one later which is like Coach or Mentor Basically like a psychiatrist couch They said oh it's that So it's that shape So they had found the same pattern Just giving a different language I may even Turn that into a competition presentation At some point maybe So it seemed to work quite well So it was quite good, I made a good chat There was some other ones going I went to a few other ones I went to a few other ones about Other things that were going on in the conference Other open spaces But the people who did the open space seemed to get a lot of value from it I think they didn't A lot of people didn't quite know what it was And the windup was a bit slow And the stage on the conference About a third to two thirds wondered off Somewhere like There was no overriding visual theme For the open space I believe there was When you've got that many people It's hard to Anyway it's like there was about A third of the sessions were about Hey I didn't get a conference presentation Here's my conference presentation But they were quite good some of those About a third was My ideas on X About a third was Help me, help me, help me with Y I need some help with Y That was quite interesting as always But the people who did them got a little value out of all of them Did you go to the last keynote? No I couldn't make that The hashtag guy I got his name in Christmas scene or something I just couldn't make that There was one flight a day But I did see the scrimmage Asked some of us to mentor The sessions They're doing their first session over the conference They wanted someone who's spoken before To be obeyed with any help I helped As much as Brent helped me To e-mails She was great, I went to see her session It was good, good session Scrumming her life Using the scrum to emigrate Using the scrum to get married Quite interesting as well Iterating, I thought it was the best one Emigrating, tried to emigrate Failed and did it at the third time I had to iterate the experience Half an hour session, but fun Nice saw made to cleanse the palette At the end of the conference So in terms of trying to summarise If you were to score it Out of 10 The gathering itself A British 8 Some issues I had were room allocations Some rooms filled really quickly Room full Didn't used to They got the room size as long as some people think Some of those people Pink instant full I might get them quite early Because of the fire code There was loads of them One last thing Before you can take over We didn't know what to do Dammit, I didn't make a choice I didn't forget anything about this The final thing was lots of US government stuff Which meant nothing to me Lots of them were like You can do agile with a contract And the US government has no relevance to me In terms of all the UK government So much easier than the US There's some weird and wonderful rules over there Weird and wonderful behaviours There's going to be a huge interest in that And a huge amount of content on that Neither which I cared Anything about Could you still have a rich conference while avoiding that? Yeah, definitely And dancing around that The only one was just Open space as always doesn't get full Full attendance It only gets about a third of the people And what did the rest of the people do? Wander off, have some self-care time Chat in the corridors Do a few sessions and go do the emails If you miss out on a whole day Which is open space and you've paid a lot of money That was largely why We took a lot of stick dropping it In London last year We felt that it was the third We wanted to offer some kind of different price tickets So people could choose Opt in to the open space or not But Yeah, it's It's difficult because the people who did it Got a load out of it Their best bit of their conference But about a third, two thirds didn't do it And when you've got a third of the 1,500 people in That's a lot of people Is it more than London? It's always much bigger than London So that's Michael So how much do you As a product manager of that gathering product Aim certain slices of certain groups And how much do you know I think it'd be fine to do that if there's something there So going forward then Is there a self-organising team For the gatherers? Yes, there is in terms of squalor lines And there is in terms of volunteers You rolled off in your after London There's something similar in North America So a few people have rolled off after this one For New York, which I believe is next year So it should be quite good for New York I think we're trying to make an effort to make it work Maybe if our hostess was nice It was nice to go New York would be really cool Yeah, so they've rolled in So there we go Massively over a long session Use some of it for your bonus video But I want to make sure I missed nothing So people have got a full appreciation of how good the gathering was Because it was what they did Yeah, so I imagine that This a little bit But we'll put the full version up on the Patreon website If anybody wants to watch Because there will be video as well Watch the full and in You can see him reading a script And you can see how we How we stay engaged While he's talking So listen right to the end of this pubcast For details on how to do that But other than that Well my pint glass is empty Jeff's pint glass is empty So his is still full So we'll say cheers on this point Cheers mate Ta-da