 When we're doing planning a prescribed burn, it can be a year long process, sometimes a couple year long process, but it's really important to have an adequate fuel load for a successful burn. We always look at trying to have at least three to four thousand pounds per acre of forage to really get a good fuel load to do some damage to the cedar trees. How do you manage the fuels in preparation for a fire? You can do that by grazing. Have your fences set up so if you're going to have a fire on whatever area you pick, don't let the cattle in there maybe for a year to build the fuels to make the fire that will kill the trees. Like Rich here, this pasture has been deferred for almost two years and he's got an awesome fuel load well over you know at least four thousand pounds maybe five thousand pounds per acre out here and so this will be this is an excellent fuel load and it should be a really really good burn and we can really get some some damaged under the cedar trees. When you're talking real thick cedar sand of 20 and 30 foot cedars then it gets into a matter of where the mechanical and the fire have to work together. You have to do some mechanical work. You have to do some clipping of this these 20 and 30 foot cedars and you have to do some stuffing them into the thicker stands to build that ladder fuel so you can get a successful burn on these really large dense stands. So ladder fuel is basically just these dead carcasses of cedar trees that have been cut down and then Rich will take his skid steer like he's done here and shoves them into the still live stands of cedar trees. And then when they we shove them into there and light that on fire then it'll really take off and then we get a mower and kind of clear a black line a line that we can that we're not afraid to light up because it won't get away. You know once those trees are cut and down on the ground you got a year maybe two at max where you need to get them burned because the needles will start falling off and then you really lose a lot of the ladder fuel that you had built up there and it gets really tough to burn those carcasses up. If you do just strictly mechanical treatments what happens is you kind of make the cedars mad and you just have a flush of little seedlings come back if you just do shredding or clipping. So you need to follow up with a burn if you do any mechanical treatments just to wipe out a lot of those little cedars. If you have a pasture that is full of just little cedar trees about like this that are just starting to come then you know fire will take care of that versus and it'll be much more cost effective with a fire than versus trying to go out and clip all the little cedar trees that are one, two, three foot. You know it's not cheap but in the end it's worth it.