 This is start-up store run. Pisco is the best kind of brandy that I bet you've never heard of. It all starts in the vineyards in Peru. The grapes are picked, pressed, and fermented to create this delicious spirit. Peruvian Pisco is so pure that not even one drop of water will ever touch the inside of the bottle. The liquor is never cut with sulfates or additives and let me tell you, you can definitely taste the quality. In this episode we talk with Alex Hildebrand, co-founder of Soyo Pisco, about using the playbook that tequila and mascot brands created, and the feud between Peru and Chile over Pisco. I thank you to Cat Footwear for sponsoring this episode. They're a premier shoe company that empowers builders and doers to reframe the world to create something more meaningful. Get ready, you're about to discover the world of single origin Pisco. All right, welcome to the podcast on today's show. We're talking to Alex from Soyo Pisco. Thanks for joining us. People who don't know, what does your company do? Thanks for having me. So Soyo Pisco is a brand of Pisco. Which is a spirit that is relatively unknown today. Particularly in the U.S. But it's a spirit that comes from Peru. And it's a denomination of origin spirit. So if you think tequila, cognac, champagne, that type of thing. And we launched the brand recently. And we're here trying to introduce Americans to it so we can help grow the category together. I love it. First of all, first time having two Peruvians on the podcast. What's good? Let's go. Epic. Spec. Yeah, and we're drinking, which is even better. Yeah. And so what made you want to start the company? What was the thing where you were like, all right, cool. There's a market opportunity. So I look at this category as Pisco's just unknown thing. We all know tequila's taking off. You know, mezcal's following suit. And so there's a bit of change happening, let's call it, in the alcohol spirits space. What makes you want to quit everything you're doing and then go ahead and forge a path into this unknown and try to bring a whole new category to the market? So what's happened with the tequila category that you reference is a really good comp and even more recently mezcal. Our inspiration, and when I say our, it's myself and my business partner, Ian, who was a friend of mine for several years and as a recently a business partner, we started this venture together. And neither one of us came from this space. So we came from completely different worlds and we always kind of had this dream too. And we talked about it for many years about how we can sort of build a bridge between our home country of Peru and the U.S. And there are a lot of products that come to mind when you think of how to do this. You have some really, really great products like quinoa, like potatoes, avocados, things that are asparagus that are native to Peru that foreigners have kind of come and found in Peru, which is the most, I think by definition, biodiverse country in the world. So we have these really amazing products, but we haven't commercialized them well. They've had a lot of success outside of Peru, but it's been non-Peruvians sort of doing it. We want to show that we as Peruvians have something that we are very passionate about and we want to make it successful globally and sort of get the credit for it too as Peruvians. So we were tossing around ideas for years when we were still working our corporate jobs. And truthfully, it sort of just hit us one day. I was down visiting my family. Most of my family still lives in Peru and Ian had moved back to Lima already. We were sitting out on a patio in Lima, which is the capital city where we're both from. And it seemed like the idea kind of smacked us in the face as we were drinking Capitanes, which is what Diego's drinking right now. But I'm drinking it right now. People are listening, delicious. And we thought, well, what about Pisco? We've been drinking this our entire adult lives and really before that. Why has this not really gotten to the level of popularity outside of Peru that it has within? And it was kind of this head scratcher that we couldn't seem to wrap our arms around. So we started doing a little bit of digging. And while we were familiar with Pisco, as I'm sure you are Diego, or I know you are Diego, just from having grown up drinking it, we didn't really know everything we needed to know, particularly coming from outside the category. So we wanted to learn as much as possible. We got in his car the next day and took a trip down to one of the more kind of commercial distilleries south of Lima. And there was just so much that we absorbed in that day that we figured we have to learn everything now. So I was actually flying back to the US the next day, which is where I live now. And thankfully this all happened right before the pandemic struck. So I was able to fly over the course of about six months, or just before the pandemic. I flew about six times basically once a month so he and I could get in his car and meet as many producers and vineyards and families as possible so we could figure out what's the best way to do this. And what we discovered was so if you go to about three hours south of Lima is called Ica and just north of that is the Port of Pisco where the name came from, the name of the spirit. That's kind of the epicenter of Pisco production. But if you drive an hour north or east or south, you have these amazing producers who don't have the opportunity to make it to the epicenter of production to get sort of that exposure that can help them. Oh, is it smaller batches too? Totally, okay. Yeah, so because they haven't had that sort of commercial success and these are really family-run operations. A lot of times they're not even looking truthfully for that commercial success but we found that they're making the best Pisco. So we thought how can we partner with them to make it three hours north to the city of Lima, let alone globally because ultimately that's what our goal is. So if you think about Mezcal you referenced, Tequila to a lesser extent, they've done such a really good job of highlighting the faces behind the production, the origin, where it comes from and what it's made from, Agave. So what we're trying to do is really draw a parallel path to that. So how can we focus on the producers who are the lifeblood of our business and create a platform for them to really make it outside of their local region. So what we do on every single one of our labels is show, again, Alamezcal who's done an exceptional job of doing this, showing a map of where it comes from, the name of the producer, the name of the family, the altitude, the annual rainfall, the soil content because it's a very terroir driven spirit. So if you're familiar with wine, this is something that's probably something you know a lot about but in the spirits category it doesn't really get that much exposure. There isn't a spirit out there where the terroir of where it's coming from is more important than with Bisco. So our goal is to try to highlight that to people who are being exposed to it so that you can understand and we'll try something a little bit, the nuances from batch to batch, region to region, year to year because Just like wine. Exactly. Your product is dependent on the harvest. Yeah. When you think about this company though, so the challenge is, like the way I break it down is you have known successes, right? And so you have a bunch of alcohol that has already made it and they've won Tequila, Moscow. You can point to them all day and it's like, all right, cool. They won and this is the playbook. And so the playbook is kind of known and you can even go back because like whiskeys all have a playbook. The interesting part is like how you think about this and how you decide to go market in a category that is already you're at a bar, there's limited options, there's limited space. And so how do you go about penetrating the market and getting people to understand this is the second option to you and then making them like really, really value teaching the customer something new, which in a game of like just quick, here's your drink, here's your drink is difficult. It's difficult to make them care, right? That seems like the whole hard part. Very much so. How do you do it? How do you do it? Therein lies the challenge. In a sense, what is our biggest challenge I think is our greatest opportunity as well and that's the fact that it's such an unknown category. So you walk into a bar, you ask them or a liquor store, whatever the case may be, you ask them about Pisco and you get these these blank stares. Like what are you talking about? So there's a lot of education required, but at the same time, I think there's this intrigue that it's something new and you see some light bulbs. It's kind of like, why haven't I heard of this? Why aren't people drinking this? So that's one of the many things that keeps me motivated and inspires me every single day other than, you know, obviously there are many different reasons, but you're absolutely right. There's limited mind share. There's a limited shelf space, but then why is there shelf space for 25 or 30 different tequila's and, you know, 15 or 20 mezcal's? I envision a world where and it's a long game, no doubt. This isn't something that's going to be whatever your definition of success is. It's not going to be incredibly commercially successful in the next three to five years. Why not? Why not? That's unpacked that. Why it could be. So it's depending on what your definition is. Tequila's growth trajectory was over decades, right? And we're past the saturation point with tequila. Mezcal was over decades also and that's the best comp in my opinion because it's kind of historically or was historically viewed as the drink of the campesinos, right? The mescaleros who are out working in the fields and tequila was the drink of choice in the city. Mezcal 15, 20 years ago started growing and then the last 10 years you've seen this insane boom. Pisco is in particularly with the rigidity or potentially lack thereof of the production methods with mezcal. Pisco has some of the same challenges that you need to adapt a certain type of way to be able to grow. So I see Pisco the opportunity as growing more like a mezcal rather than a tequila because the positioning I think should be the same and that's why we're doing things the way that we do. So I think there is space and look, there's finite amount of shelf space as you said but there are places where it can be and should be. I'm not saying who it should be replacing. Yeah, all of it. Should replace all of it. When you first got into the market were you doing any research around like where does the Pisco go? So where does it go from Peru? Where is it going? Who's buying it? What cities? What states? What countries? Or is it like 90% of Pisco is bought in Peru and basically just stored there? Yeah, so interesting fun facts I guess two facts. Yes, the majority of it is remains in Peru. The largest importer of Pisco outside of Peru is our neighbors in Chile who also make their own Pisco. So that's kind of interesting. But they don't have the same regulations that Peruvian Pisco does is what I read. And is that correct? Correct. Okay. Yeah, so there is Chilean Pisco as well is a controversial topic for most Peruvians. I have a bit of a non-traditional approach to it because I find that we can be more successful educating on the differences than fighting about who invented it or it just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. So yeah, completely different and I can tell you more about what the main differences are between the two but because theirs is so different and I think also they appreciate the quality of ours in Peru they import so much of it. The third largest market is the United States of America but even still relative to other spirits that you're probably drinking every single day it's like a small grain of salt. So when I started researching and I was looking it's difficult to find good data on this too. I saw how small the numbers were of what was being imported and I just I couldn't believe it. So the opportunity is vast in the U.S. alone now we want to be global of course but the U.S. we feel like is where we need to start to your question on states. New York makes a lot of sense because it has a massive mixology scene very well known. The demographics are right for us. There's a lot of Latinos as well. California, LA and San Francisco. LA I think because of the demographic of the consumer San Francisco more because of the cocktail culture. It's a challenge from your part to also get these distributors on board like how much of a challenge is that of getting them to be hype about the product. Distribution is if not first probably the second largest challenge that any I think any new spirits brand is going to encounter because as you may know every single state in the U.S. has different laws so you can't find one catch all solution you can't find one distributor that's going to get you into all 50 states. So you have to sort of approach each hopefully you can work with the distributor who's regional and is in many states but in many times you're having to work with a different distributor in every single state. So it's a different sales pitch to each distributor in each distributor has different resources in terms of you know what's the knowledge base of my sales reps can they take on this thing that is a niche category right now they're going to spend a lot of time educating. So you want to align yourself and we've so far aligned ourselves with distribution partners who feel like they get it and interestingly it seems like they have a strong focus in wine which I think is helpful for them because they understand the production methods as such can educate the end accounts which is the literature. Do you educate them like do you spend time so what kind of things are you doing to make sure that they understand fully what you're trying to achieve. We do so we're still pretty early in the game so we haven't had a chance to do as much education with the distributors as we would like but it starts off with with a call with everyone in the market that were so California for instance we just started selling in California last month and the month before that we had a call with every single sales rep in California with our distributor spent an hour with them telling them about who we are what we do what is the Pisco category in general and then what makes us unique within that Pisco category and then we provide materials also so that they can carry around with them they can hand them out to accounts they can have sort of cheat sheets as they're talking to to accounts and give them little sample bottles but education is absolutely A number one what probably is the biggest challenge that's what I mentioned there's kind of two it's education and then it's getting distribution those education for us is paramount though because we're a relatively unknown category I took O into there's this group called Sky Duster and they make beer and so the beer is like straightforward like it's like your Bud Light your Budweiser your Heineken it's like really straightforward but it's made in LA and so it's basically just not big brand but tastes just like a support or whatever all the classics and so what I loved about these guys and it was so fascinating is that they throw parties for all of their distributors before they even like sign the account and these parties are basically like swag fest so they get like all the drinks the hats the t-shirts and it's basically like hype they're just like look guys we want you to have fun with this you don't have to like the beer we just want you to have fun selling this into restaurants and we want we don't we're not gonna tell you what we're about you don't care about me and my story forget all that we just want you amped up and like here are some flavors here are some drinks here are some things enjoy it bring your girlfriend bring all your friends and it's like a patio party next thing you know these guys are like in every major hotel and it's just like it's crazy to me the fact that they don't even they really don't educate them at all they just go we just want we want you to like me that's it and they play into that game so well and they crush and it's in person parties super fun and then the whole just and all the sales guys are there and the sales guys are like fuck yeah I can sell this and in this setting right it's a challenge like when I saw them do that all these light bulbs went off for me I'm like they're attacking this not not from a point of like let me tell you how I made my beer and like we use this hot because all that boring science shit and they were just like you're a human who probably wants to get laid here's a drink here you go and we're cool here's a t-shirt here's a hat here's this here's that and I was like it was a left for me I'd never seen anything like that but the results that I'm watching these guys are bananas but like they can't keep up and the sales guys love them because it's the first time the sales guy has been loved by a brand in a way that wasn't sell this please here's a here's like a cheat sheet thank you for your time so you're you're touching on something that it really speaks to I think we do it this is it this is the whole party this is the move yeah you throw like a little patio party studio party here it is I got a studio for you we did something like that in New York so New York was our first market and when I tell you that we're relatively new I think of April really as our launch date April 2022 because that was the first time we had a real distribution partner in New York prior to that we started selling technically in September of 2021 but doing what's considered self-distribution which is not it's only you're allowed to do in a handful of states so that was really just me running around trying to educate about Pisco really four months ago we started working with the distributor who had all these reps you were referring to who can help us out with that and then since then we've rolled out into a handful of other markets with this same group what we do at Suyo is we think of ourselves as we're not a Pisco brand we're a discovery mission we are obsessed with this concept of creating experiences for people so we're not just trying to shove Pisco in your face we want you to learn about Peru we want you to learn about our culture we want you to learn about the experiences that you can get you don't have to get on a plane to fly to Peru but maybe it'll cause you to pull up Wikipedia one time and read about something different we want people to get that experience in a bottle and it doesn't have to be just between US and Peru go learn about something else go discover something new Pisco is Alex and Ian getting into a car and driving and meeting new producers and families a few times a year when I'm down there to meet new Pisco partners but so I give you that context because how can we give our distributors that same level of experience what we'd love to do is fly every single one of them to Peru and come around with us to all of our vineyards that's not possible so how do you incentivize them to do so a lot of brands create distributor incentives so the top four or five sales reps we'll get a trip to Mescalantequilla been doing this for years you get to go visit Oaxaca you get to go visit Helisco we need to start taking people to Peru so they can really see where this is coming from and and love it as much as we do we need them to get psyched about it I think it's simpler than that I think people just want to get laid I really I say this honestly like I think like like I hear you right I think like I think the problem I learned in entrepreneurship is like at the beginning of someone's entrepreneurship journey usually you try to be very clever you try to be very smart and then you neglect is like the human condition the human condition it's not that sophisticated it's basically like food procreation and survival like that's really it that's really like the three tenants of success and so if you can tap into one of those as a brand that's all you need also like flying these people to Peru is a it's a mock you know it's like they probably don't know the language how they gonna get there who knows are they gonna have a good time it's a lot it's a lot to manage and I just think like just let that happen on accident you know let it let it happen because it will they're gonna get curious on their own or the right person gets curious on their own yeah so you mentioned the playbook and there's no cookie cutter approach but the playbook that I'm referring to has been followed by a lot of these agave spirits you know I've heard you talk about Casa Dragones a lot legends Fortaleza I don't know if you've had them they've done an amazing job over the past decade of just bartenders press whomever come visit our distillery and they incentivize you to come visit their distillery learn about us there's dozens of other brands who've done the same thing we think that would be helpful to us like of course we're not going to get everyone there and maybe that's not the most impactful way people are driven by other incentives as you mentioned Suyo is really an extension of myself it's an extension of my business partner and it's difficult for us to you know you talked about the swag and stuff like that the liquor space the alcohol space in general it's very much a marketing game yeah right you're not satisfying in need so you agree with that right though you agree with which part you accept that you accept those rules like you accept gravity you accept you accept that it's a marketing game yes but it doesn't need to be the heaviest marketing dollars that makes you successful but I accept that yes because you're not you know you don't have this widget that's satisfying an immediate need however that doesn't mean that there isn't a gap in the market everyone's going to be drinking alcohol it's just a question of what they are drinking why not give them something that's better now what do I mean by better that's not me just telling you as a brand owner my product is better this means it's better we have the only you can say it it's better I believe it's better Bisco is the only all-natural spirit in the world by definition what does that mean yeah what does that mean there's only one one ingredient in that entire bottle sex that's what we've found the way to bottle sex that's what we've created from that one ingredient yeah yeah yeah what is it so it's grapes that's it we take grapes we ferment the grapes with no additives no sulfites only ambient yeast no added yeast okay so you ferment these grapes you still have only grapes you have a young wine is what you come up with a young natural wine we then distill that one time the final result is a distillate from grapes that has no water added to it at the end and that's what we bottle nothing ever even touched when we rinse our bottles with the head so when you distill the art of distillation is cutting it at the beginning which what you don't keep is called the head and then at the end what you don't keep is called the tail we rinse our bottles with the head and the tail of the distillate because water can never touch the inside of our bottles interesting but so when you look at other categories and I'm not going to call them out here but they say 100% something that's not entirely true because first it's been cut with water which is okay like adding water's not a bad thing but then there's always caveats okay it's 100% but the law allows you to do 99% you can do 1% of additives and the law is still going to allow you to call it 100% because we want our category to grow as a consumer that's never felt right to me at what point are people going to start caring about you have this product that of course in excess is going to be inherently not the best for you everybody knows that but when you know you're going to be consuming it moderately why would you not put the best the best thing inside your body why has that not really been why does the TTB who's the FDA equivalent not make you put ingredients on your labels I think we know that though the TTB is probably one of like it's meant to keep little people out it's meant to keep people like you out it's meant to make like if you're going to distill then you got to go large and you got to spend a bunch of money and so it keeps like any innovation out I mean I was dealing with TTB in Houston, Texas and I was like this here it's crazy like the level of hoops and the level of like even a developer couldn't be associated with other alcoholic products even though they're not a function of the company at all but if you had opened a bar before sorry you're out you can't be part of it which means you can't get your license and it's like what are we doing like and all the rules all these hurdles are there on purpose there's a bunch of lobbying that's been on to protect the you know the people that have been there for hundreds of years exactly and I get it like I get both sides of it but yeah I think that's why I'm in the TTB I'm convinced there's a better way and people people are going to start caring about it more that's like one of my operating principles people are going to be looking at I think you're right what is on this label as we sort of progress here it's it's been happening in food for you you're from the future this is totally directionally correct like we all see this right this is what I am excited this is why I love you and your brand and this shit because I'm like a fan and I think it's a no brainer and it's mission forward but it's also like there's a real opportunity to dent this market and change people's perception I think as tequila gets oversaturated it's a good thing it plays right into your playbook right and so the thing that whiskey did that's different which is actually interesting so whiskey what they do is like if they got you at as an 18 year old then you would stay with them so if you like Jack Daniels or whatever like red label let's call it you would stay with them until until you died that's literally like this is how I've seen their decks this is how it works they have you until you die and then what happens is like once you become 30 or let's say 40 and you have a child how do I get the 18 year old now and they create a different brand so they create so same house same company but now it's like a different younger version of that but it's the same thing because they know that consumer I'm not drinking my dad's stuff I'm not drinking my dad's stuff I'm drinking my own stuff and so then they create another brand and then there's all these other brands and they do a little infusion of like this one's got cherry or okay cool okay interesting but that's how they do it and then as soon as so their life cycle is the life cycle of their consumer that's how they all operate tequila's not doing that tequila's going everybody loves it and we have three versions we have the hoven but we're not really like changing the brand all we're doing is adding celebrity today which is something that Jack Daniels couldn't do or they didn't really care to do it and so it's interesting so I look at that as like these are all great ingredients are people to start being like is tequila really it? let's go somewhere else now it's getting mucky which is great for you and into that point it's negative to be clear I love agave spirits I mean I really enjoy drinking them what you're referencing in the market has caused this this oversaturation has actually negatively impacted the product because historically we're we're maturing our agaves for seven to ten years we no longer have the ability to do that because the demand is so high we're going to start maturing our agaves for only three to five years what does that result in? you get a product that doesn't taste as good because it's not at the optimal point that 20 50 years ago they decided was the optimal point now they have to sort of move the goalpost to keep up with with demand so that's unfortunately something that's happened and I hope that that the industry in general can can do a good job of making sure that they don't start putting all this bad or don't continue putting bad product out there to meet the demand well if we can zoom out on this problem of education and influencing the marketplace so it reminds me of what Thailand did a couple decades ago they knew that they needed to come up with a way to have diplomacy or have an impact on the world around them even though they're relatively small country and so what they did was they went through and they started funding Thai restaurants all over the world culinary diplomacy and so that's why today there are Thai restaurants in just about every small town across the U.S. and it's not because all these Thai entrepreneurs like are all operating successful Thai restaurants it's because the government subsidizes them to make up for it and I'm thinking like this is a potential opportunity for the country of Peru the government of Peru to start engaging in some sort of diplomacy on a level that educates people about the products of Peru like you know everything from the quinoa the potatoes I can't wait for this hot take yeah all right well I think of make you're so pure I love it the ability to for the country of Peru seems like a no brainer right financing seems like a no brainer some sort of marketing campaign around Pisco around quinoa around potatoes whatever it might be and you know you guys can lead the charge yeah why aren't you doing that I think Diego understands a lot of the intricacies involved here spot on conceptually 100 percent it's a great analog because not only have they done that the country we were talking about agave spirits just now the country of Mexico has done a great job of investing in the infrastructure required within their country to get people to the producing regions but then also marketing within the U.S. and other countries really but to help grow demand and creating a platform for producers and brands to be successful Peru has tried and we will continue to so we have been speaking with both on the ground in Peru and then also at the different trade commissions like Diego is close with the trade commission here in LA these exist in the major cities all around the country you get limited mindshare there because they're working with other categories too it's not just Pisco so we are trying to do a better job to make sure that they see the opportunity the same way that we do and it seems like a no brainer but you'd you'd be surprised when so they're not convinced that this is worthwhile is what you're saying here's how I like at it so I think like I'm gonna go ahead and say it because I think it's important I think culturally Peru is cute it's like we're cute we're just cute kids that do cute stuff and no one's really understanding the value of like killing it and I think culturally this is like embedded in you as a child and I hate it I've never had it I just go so hard the other way I go we're done being cute and so when you talk to these trade trade commissions are like the idea you're bringing up it's the same it's like intentionally this feels really good and emotionally it checks the boxes and they understand but then there's never like there's a cute follow-through we're just happy to be here sometimes got it follow-through got it and it's a problem and I think the other issue is I don't there's a lack of sophistication in it so so Mexico has a trade commission that works really closely with America and in that they see how the Mexican GDP growth so the Mexican products help America's GDP significantly and then Mexico also says and thank you because we get XYZ and so there's this like interesting known facts the trouble that they're fighting though is like why are you putting our people into the stereotype stop doing that America we literally power you we're a meaningful part of your economy and so there's a guy met that worked under the Obama administration that was running like this whole group the trade commission for Mexico the Mexican-American relationship and that's what he was saying he's like this isn't about us making you money this is about like just start stop portraying us in these weird ways why are you doing that like we're a sophisticated economic army appropriate for you like stop doing that and also like there's this notion that Mexican products aren't consumed in the middle of America turns out they are significantly all over the middle of America for the stereotype you could argue is the worst so I think Prude doesn't have that they don't really value that they're not really putting enough energy into okay there are tons of things that we could export let's have us sit down with the government we're just not big enough like no one cares enough and then the Peruvian government for whatever reason is just like they don't take a full swing so I'm glad you bring this up I'm gonna use this as a launching point go hard though I have some hot takes too but I'm gonna try to not let them all out this is the problem this is the problem let it out you gotta tell the country so it's your point I mean you're spot on right what's the saying gente pobre es un banco de oro it's a poor person seated on a gold bench and that's what Peruvians we basically are because we have access you're pouring the mind they're pouring the mind we have all of these amazing resources yet we haven't commercialized what we have someone else has come and found it and commercialized it for us which is I think what you're getting to so we need to show them the way and they need they need to be given like the exact playbook that it's gonna work and they need to be shown that it has worked a little bit which just kind of creates a circular reference for you Pisco's been around forever so they look at the past 20 years as oh we've been trying to push Pisco Sours for the past 20 years and it hasn't really worked so why do you where are you gonna be different well for starters Pisco Sours isn't the best in my opinion Pisco cocktail out there I think it's been hiding behind the Pisco Sours for far too long I think that's one of our key issues this would just fill my tank so much like literally like the more I learn about your shit it just like it fills my tank because I'm like they're all incompetent and someone has to solve this and the man's in the mirror like that's how I look at it and then when you get your award you know when you get your bread when you get whatever it is that your success looks like it should be like I want to thank all of you for thinking too small exactly and I think it needs to be a new generation too the heads of these respective trade emissions across the country are we gotta launch this shit you gotta blow it up you have to yeah so you have a job now you have a responsibility to me so and this is part of what I mean impassioned me really to do this so Diego gets this I think a Peruvian who was what year how old were you when you moved to the States like three okay so same I was I was three exactly the same thing so I was brought into a society at a young age that is empowered to sort of think this type of way and so you have this feeling of it's not entitlement it's empowerment because I know I need to work my ass off to get it but in Peru often times there's this mindset where you know Diego used the word Q it's just like well you know it just kind of is what it is I'm not empowered to make it make a difference so I've been having had this experience as a Peruvian American I've kind of been obsessed with how can I create that experience for others who didn't have the privilege of and it's not like the U.S. is the best place in the world so people in Peru need to act that type of way there's so much that Americans can learn from Peruvians as well so how can we create a bridge between these two countries what better way than what's a better way to connect with someone than sitting at a table drinking something whether it be coffee could be a spirit could be iced tea it doesn't matter gives you something to talk about and connect on a different level that we otherwise wouldn't have had we not had this so that's kind of what I've become obsessed with how can I create this connection how can we empower others to discover something new do something different and unfortunately not everyone gets that experience it's definitely been a challenge to try to get the trade trade commissions in Peruvians to think differently yeah they're actually correct though good idea but unfortunately yeah I forgot how we yeah yeah how we got there no it's a good idea it makes perfect sense I mean even entrepreneurship I mean Latin American countries in general aren't really in general right so entrepreneurship whether it's spirits or like tech they're not they're not really fully embracing or understanding the value of creating so it's hard to build a business when you're also having to educate the culture and then you look at it like this like you can go the other way so in Scandinavian countries if you have a startup they basically say like the government says okay cool your startup needs to be so if you're a big company it's like you're like one of the top 20 companies in Norway let's say so if you're an entrepreneur one of these top 20 companies has to give you a contract legally in one or two in year one and so that gives you like runway and a client and then you have to work with them on the thing and then hopefully it works and then you can go take it to the mass market that's a different kind of entrepreneurship right because then it's like I wouldn't even call it entrepreneurship I'd call that you have a job you gave yourself a job under the cloak of entrepreneurship cool but if it works then you can take it to the market right and so that's like I think they went too far the other way the beauty of entrepreneurship is you're supposed to go through hardship the stressors make you when you take those away you you cut yourself short so there's also that right and so I'm not suggesting any country has it right or wrong but I would say in Peru generally it's uh in Latin American countries it's not valued yet yeah and to that point right we talked about Mexico it's a bordering state the U.S. yeah they've seen the dollars so when you see the dollars it helps there are geopolitical reasons here so it's funny when I was at when I talked to this guy who worked on the Obama administration his point his whole opening statement was around how most bordering countries have have bad blood and he was like it's really nice having a friendly neighbor and I was like why is he saying that that seems really like a weird thing to say but I think in that he's trying to make the point of like we're the ultimate ally and geopolitical it's a very geopolitical statement to say to start with that right that's what he started with and I was like oh okay I guess it could be worse we could be at war right but he's making the point of is we we basically have a percentage of your GDP and we could go to war but we we won't but we could and you'd be screwed so thank you it's like a veiled it was like pay attention it really was yeah I want to ask another potentially really dumb question about Peru there's there's so we'll tell you Nick we'll tell you so the other thing I think about it is cute because it he's just so nice so well-intentioned yeah well going back to what you said about Chile and how they make Pisco but it is not the same as Peruvian Pisco because they distill it our our how much time do we have because we can we can dig into this yeah well you know we can take as much time on this this is the youtube clip Owen is dying for so let's just make it go let's just do it and no it also just how long do you typically video for I wanted to figure out how to oh we have until 4 p.m but no no like all right just hot take guys so would it make sense in a perfect world knowing now and what I know about like the Peruvian government and culture wouldn't ever make sense for them to institute a sort of label similar to the Champagne region of France where you cannot call it Pisco if it is made outside of this region not smart enough Nick it exists okay this is a long long standing if you want to really take it far back the origin of this animosity between the two countries comes from the war of the Pacific in the 1800s so Chile was at war with our neighbors and allies Bolivia who at the time was had a coast southern border a southern border that so it coasted that it was between basically Bolivia split Peru from Chile so Peru was not boarding Chile at the time Chile went to war with Bolivia as Bolivia's ally Peru had to step in and help the combo of Peru and Bolivia lost that war and one of the by-products of that war was Bolivia losing their coastline and becoming completely landlocked Bolivia's of course have animosity towards the Chileans for that but also Peruvians do too so having lost that it just always kind of had this this bad blood and kind of weird dynamics when any two nations go to war together but then to add insult to injury we had this product that we felt that we introduced to the world really we were calling it Pisco because we literally have a port called Pisco Chile started so Chile has really good wine like no one's going to take that away from them they have exceptional wines in Chile a good carmenier is like you can't yeah they have really good wines they started distilling their wine double triple distilling it completely different methods different grapes to begin with because they have different you know different climate so they just different grapes to begin with and most of them are from the Alexandria Muscat family which is what this is actually is but other than that there's really very small crossover between the grapes and Chile versus the grapes in Peru but so Chile started distilling it in making it calling it Pisco and it's like why the name Pisco why did you choose that so they started thinking about it well why don't we rename this town where where most of the production is happening which was called La Union at the time the Union in the 40s they renamed that town to Pisco so that they felt like they could create this denomination of origin so that we can now call our product Pisco because we now have a town called Pisco also so as Peruvians you just kind of look at it and like why are you doing this you know so I think that just made made things worse each country has gone and sought out their their own denominations of origin that Peruse was granted in 1991 and the U.S. recognizes it however they also recognize the Chilean ones so if you walk into a liquor store down the street you'll see a Peruvian Pisco and a Chilean Pisco the TTV just requires you to say Pisco de Peru or Pisco de Chile or you know Peruvian Pisco or Peruvian Chile as long as you distinguish between one of those two you're okay but you take that there are other countries there's something like 80 countries in the world that exclusively recognize the Peru denomination of origin so Chilean Pisco can't make it in if it gets in they have to call it something different okay on the flip side there are also using round numbers here I think it's like 30 to 40 countries that only recognize the Chilean Pisco so both of these countries are constantly fighting in in countries all around the world to make sure that their product is being recognized it's not like you know Cognac or Tequila like no other country swooped in and tried to do the exact same thing so you know I don't know how Peru could have fought that off at the beginning I'm sure there's something they could have done to do better but now it's kind of like we are where we are so as I was saying at the beginning rather than trying to bicker over who makes it what let's educate about the differences super high level what are the differences completely different grapes like different grape classes so that's the starting point secondly Chilean Pisco can be double triple quadruple distilled the more you distill something the more it essentially becomes vodka yeah okay Peruvian Pisco is only single distilled by law Chilean Pisco can be aged Peruvian Pisco cannot be aged so Peru Peruvian Pisco is always going to be clear you're never going to see a dark colored Peruvian Pisco Chilean Pisco you see a dark it means it's been aged in some sort of barrel for a long period of time leave leave yeah in the key distinction to make is aged versus rested because Peruvian Pisco by law has to be rested at least three months we rested ours for a year and the distinction is that rested means it's in neutral neutral containers right it's not going to be like I wasn't getting any flavors like being in an oak barrel or something like that exactly so it can be glass can be copper can be stainless steel can be polyethylene which is plastic as you said you can't do it in a barrel and those are really the the key differences so you can end up with a completely different product at the end of the day and yet they're both still called Pisco and it's kind of confusing I think to the consumer so what we I think need to focus on is educating about the differences between the two rather than the more we fight each other the less and this is kind of a problem that's endemic to I think Peruvians in general we're always chopping each other's legs off rather than building each other up so like it's the scarcity mindset that's so big on prevalence yeah like if if my neighbor's doing well it means I'm not doing well but part of what you know there are a lot of things that motivate me to do this obviously it's just like but this is why I want you to win so bad having always I appreciate that that's why I'm like you got to sell your shit for 90 bucks we got to go 90 dollar Pisco we got to we got to be that thing I got to be the p-ditty for you I got to have I got to open up all these clubs restaurants so that way when I throw parties with all these celebrities it's just the only thing there's Pisco all you on vodka doesn't exist you want to heal it doesn't exist we just have Pisco bottles you just take photos of everybody all this goes on your socials it's the new wave that's how I look at it and so we got to get the culture we got to get the music we got to get the tattooing we got to get culture exactly and then you win culture culture is there someone on Instagram that's like the Pisco king or Pisco queen is there someone on there that like really owns that that niche I'm just curious no there are because I'm you know you see this is this is what I'm always thinking about it's like there's got to be so in order to win you have there has to be people in your circle or outside tertiary that are like already experts and they can't be the local bartender which already exists we are already those people are there's a few of them in New York Lynette is one of them yeah yeah remember Lynette oh yes yeah yeah the masterclass bartender who's been a you know tremendous ally for the category not even a Peruvian okay a Latina who has you know spent many years in a Nikkei concept restaurant and ran that program and obviously he was on masterclass and she's done an amazing job legend how do you how do you view growth for the next year or two what do you what are you doing what are we doing what's the expectation no I have high expectations it's not the expectation what are you what are you doing like how do you view it you and Ian raising capital wise you know just just the whole thing the entrepreneurship journey of like ultimately you have a product you're trying to get at the market you want it to scale you want it to do well what is on your horizon for for blowing this up or just getting it just getting into the market we're very much very much at an inflection point I would say we were relatively methodical in the way that we approach bootstrapping this business but I caveat that with the fact that we both come from different industries so what do you guys come from what are the how many had no idea what we were doing in this category yeah which is the best by the way yeah it's kind of like it is the best you start doing it and you're like why in the world does that restriction exist that doesn't make any sense but there's a lot of lobbying dollars that are keeping it that way so there's only so much you can do but we have to still change something so I came from a I spent about six years working in investment banking and then I spent about three years working in corporate development which is like you know corporate strategy internal M&A and what is Ian what is Ian's background consulting so both of us we both worked at the same healthcare services company he was working in consulting and I was working in corporate development and I joined the firm and so while it was the global headquarters is pretty small because the company is all over the world and it's about 50 people in the office maybe a little bit more and we both found out that there was another Peruvian in the office so you may appreciate this like we both kind of had this vision of what the other guy was supposed to look like so like when I meet this person like I'm going to know that it's him we must have passed each other in the hallway a dozen times over the course of the next and his name is Ian so of course yeah there's no neither one of us have particularly Peruvian names right at all so we were you know we're at a work function that's about two or three months into my having joined and we finally met each other and we were both like you're that guy oh you're the Peruvian yeah and then you know of course from there we just always remained close because I think there was just kind of that natural connection that existed yeah of course there was a kinship there but how do you scale it how do we scale it so you're in the world now you realize the game is a little different than you originally thought what do you do what are you doing yeah so is it more capital intensive is that the thing that you recognized or what's like the what was the thing so quick context on how we got here because it may be helpful we were methodical and that we wanted to bootstrap this thing because we have so much to learn and the life blood of our businesses our producers we don't want to just go private label a product and stamp our name on it that lacked what we wanted that lacked our you know DNA so we spent a lot of time creating and then fostering these relationships with our producers and mostly Ian because he lives there and he's in this every single day that took a long time and it continues to be you know that's a lot of work and we do this all the time the pandemic happened we started fighting two different battles so we technically hadn't launched yet but we were about ready to do so now I'm talking to distributors and the cell is not only there's two pieces that were friction points one we're in the middle of a pandemic we're going to stick to our money makers so we're not taking on new brands to begin with we are only going to sell Tito's and we're going to sell Casamigos because we know we're going to make money off of these we're going to be very risk averse okay fine also you're in a category that people haven't even heard of why are we going to take that big of a risk in the middle of a pandemic and this mindset really existed for continues to exist to a lesser degree today so that approach I think has been helpful for us where we were kind of learning the nuances of the market and we were able to build these relationships the way that we wanted rather than raising capital right away and having to meet the timeline of you know a timeline that's basically been impressed upon us we can sort of do things our own way we are now at a point where we've been in the market less than a year but where people are starting to know who we are and to get to the next level it's kind of what do you do we need to expand our distribution footprint but arguably more importantly expand consumption within the existing distribution footprint that's what keeps me up at night how can I get more people to learn about Suyo it's still just myself in the U.S. market Ian of course is involved as well but he's sort of geographically restricted with where he is is it bringing on more sales reps I don't want just 22 year olds running around saying buy Suyo that lacks the character that we think we need but how can we get more people learning social media is a great you know we started working with with Lexi and her team like that's a great starting point yeah yeah a friend connected me and it ended up working out you're welcome so the next phase is really growing awareness how can we get how can we amplify our voices how can I get that microphone that right now I spend 90 percent of my time running around New York City talking to bars and restaurants and we've we've gotten a lot of really good traction but I can't clone myself 50 times to go around the rest of the country and do the same thing so this is not a problem that's you know exclusive to us but I think it is somewhat unique to a brand new category yeah we're admittedly very much trying to figure that out but it's going to require it's going to require different level of thinking here in the upcoming months upcoming months that you know not now that we kind of have the production relatively figured out I say it's relative because I don't want to undersell how difficult it is to do business in Peru and with that being kind of the lifeblood of what we do we have we've invested a lot of dollars and a lot of time in that now that we have that to a place where we feel like we can succeed and we can scale now it's time to really start really really start making a dent in the American market and you know we have a lot of ideas but haven't really invested dollar wise heavily in any of those yet I think that's that's the next phase do you think it's meeting so do you think that it's it's basically focusing on the distributors and their teams or do you think it's more of like getting in with the restaurant groups what yields more right so so everything we talk about in this room is always yield it's always like I could do X and that would take me an hour and what's the yield or I could do X and that would take me two hours but the yield is 20 times and so what what has been like the high yield event for you the obvious answer for me is this is on a relatively low scale but I'm mostly answering your question and then I'll fully answer it when I'm doing a tasting for anyone though or for like like put me in the liquor store liquor stores invite me to come do tastings yeah you'll do it I do them all the time we're gonna do it today what are you doing today it's the best way to what are you doing later well so you have to typically the liquor store has to already get to the ground what are you doing later all right here's what we're gonna do we're gonna go we're gonna go at 6pm you guys are all gonna go to the tennis club there's 16 people playing tennis we all go up for a drink after you're gonna do the thing the guy who owns the LA Times is one of the people in that room oh no way yeah same there's a channel in their family okay everyone in that room is a player on the magnitude of like they own restaurant groups they own all this stuff and so these are the right people these are the people that are gonna be like oh we love it and I'm just gonna I'm the guy because as you know that's gonna be like invest today at the end of this yeah yeah I'm gonna be like I want to be like Diddy to you I'm gonna be the ambassador I want to be the guy that's like blowing this up and I want you to be like we don't like him I want you as a suyo to be like we don't understand why this guy is so crazy he's just like so hype about our product and like but they're different you know like he's just he's he's a different human because I think that works also the yield when when someone comes up to me and actually talks to me so a lot of times you get people who are in a rush right like buying coming into the store to buy something and like I got to go sorry I don't have time to taste which is rare most of the time people do want to taste something but they don't have time to talk when I get a chance to talk to them to them it's like you see the light bulbs why haven't I been drinking this how come no one's told me about this before like did you just make this up this is confusing to me so I gotta buy a bottle now how can I recreate that same experience obviously I can't I can't go everywhere and be everywhere at once but to your point at the club when I sit at the bar and I pull out the bottles and the bartenders tasting them people see and they see a capitan which is my favorite cocktail a pisco sour maybe you know they're like I need to I need to have that why haven't I had that before I really need to have that now how can I create that same level of connection how can I scale that level of connection it's very challenging all right let's think about that so let's let's let's what are your ideas how do you scale it because I have ideas yeah so I'd love to do okay one of them is it's kind of like it's not going to be an absolute grand slam overnight but I believe still what I believe is right is not necessarily right so please pressure test this these sort of like micro events across the country they're expensive this is part of the problems how do you partner with yield isn't there how do you partner with restaurants who can maybe give you the space for free and you bring in people who are influential in the category in that particular city and they'll say oh I'm going to go tell my bartender you know head of the beverage program here to go get this I'm going to go tell my restaurant owner friends to go get this I'm going to go tell my celebrity friends about this and then it's sort of word of mouth grows that way but I can do a proper tasting with them so they can see the nuances between the two educate them about the product maybe bring in some ceviche alfajores which I think you know it's a Peruvian dessert pairs perfectly with our Italia if you want to enjoy it sort of like as a digestif so if we can give them that experience it propels you I think to go tell more people about it and if we target the right people if we do one of these in every single major city of America that's that can be impactful that doesn't give you the megaphone that overnight creates all this demand for you but that's kind of what we're working on now we did something like that in New York a few months ago but to your point it was expensive we had to rent out the space and when we look back on it it was like yeah it doesn't pencil the the ROI on that was very very small that's low yield I mean that's a lot of work low yield it's hard it's it's very hard especially when you're you have restrictions with the way you can do things within this space what does that do what does that mean okay so I can't go into a bar in Texas right now and just start pouring my VSCO because I don't have distribution there which means I don't have a license right yeah yeah yeah I can't that's Texas I can't sell e-commerce everywhere so I can't I live in Massachusetts I can't even sell my product in Massachusetts you can't order it from my website to send it to Massachusetts but that's an excuse right like I I'm not going to make an excuse glad you see it that way you need to you need to be impactful where you are with with what you have yeah so brand ambassadors as Lexi was mentioning I hate that term sorry I've started who are they though who are they so so far it's just been friends and friends of friends but I've been calling them friends of what do they do what do they do they like what does an ambassador do I can tell you what they're supposed to do what are they supposed to do but not with what they have been doing low yield again we're in the low yield chat chat so and this is where I think external feedback is like really really helpful I'm here for you because you know I'm the type of person you and my business partners the type of person who we love this is very much a passion project for us that has turned into something that is real and we love growing organically we don't we don't love certain things you know like there are certain things that don't I think fit our ethos and throwing marketing dollars at clubs and stuff like this it just doesn't really fit well with us so getting brand ambassadors who don't fit our ethos obviously doesn't really work well for us but what does it look like the brand ambassador program what is it what is it yes we're calling them friends of suyo and they're people who live in the cities major cities and states in which we just distribute and these are people who are or are not in the category primarily not who have medium to high income earners who spend a lot of time out at bars and liquor stores and are relatively influential amongst appear group incentivizing them to look I'm going out and hanging out at a bar restaurant Thursday Friday Saturday anyway I might as well now talk to the bartender about this really cool product that I have and tell them what's different about it and then anytime that it sells I'm giving them a commission that's in perpetuity it's not just one time but do they sell it or how does that work so we just started doing it it's better do you give them a free bottle and then something happens with that yeah give them one of these and then a bunch of these little guys yeah so that they can sort of distribute them themselves but even in that setting the way the operation would go is hey do you like it cool try it okay and then they have to get in touch with distributor right correct yeah there's a lot of friction points yeah potential friction it's like LATC when I'm like hey get it in here and you're like who's your distributor and I'm like not my job I mean that's how it is right that's that's how I look at it and so I just look at it as like because because here's how it worked I go Jeff who's your distributor I don't know you gotta talk to Brian who's Brian headed of F&B I'm out died on the vine yeah and I know Brian make a text Brian but I'm like why why why is it why is it that why is it 14 steps it's too it's too difficult this is the story of my life that's what I'm saying and so we have to so if we can if we can if we're smart enough to accept friction and understand it then we're smart enough to solve it how do we get around it if we could get some law changes I think that would be really helpful too but obviously that's not something that happened yeah no low yield again but you ultimately want to be in like you want to be in locations right that's your play obviously you've made you've made that locations have it move within locations for sure but there's you've made the bed in terms of like this distribution becomes your avenue that's it and so it's the only it's the only avenue right now great and so that's it makes it simpler and so then it's like okay cool so now you have to get into these places and how do you do that that's that's the game exactly and so the ambassador program is some of it but where that drops off is they still have to contact the distributor which means bartender must know distributor maybe they will maybe they won't but that's challenge one correct and then not only they need it they now need to fill out paperwork to work with that distributor right if they don't already but if i own let's say i own seven restaurants simpler right if you're talking to the owner not to get the product it's simpler for me because you're simply the decision the decision to put you in seven versus this one is simpler because then i just go here talk to my head of whoever that person right is that not simpler it's it's so unfortunately doesn't work that way in my experience so far these restaurant groups like to empower their beverage managers at each location yeah so what you meet with them then yeah at each individual one correct but they basically siloed the decision-making it's it's it's ridiculous um it it's not ideal for for a brand owner but right now i mean you typically don't see someone saying i've only seen it once where they said yeah you know what i'll right now put put you in all three of my locations because typically they they want to make sure that each restaurant or bar serves as its own decision maker the caveats to that are kind of but not entirely something like a total wine where they can put you in many of their stores overnight but they decide what stores you're going into we just got approval this week to go into total wine in california but it was a specific location it wasn't all of the locations it was about a dozen locations because they're the ones that they decided were going to be the best for us is it a trial period like where is if you over a certain amount of months you move a certain amount of product then they move you into more stores and more stores yes okay so it's not defined to you that way but undoubtedly that's okay let's let's do this let me just let's just debunk this so if i'm the head of fnb why am i buying what is ultimately the thing is it i'm going to be scenario so you can yeah is it is it that i saw drake with a picture of it is it that i saw you in the la times and you got you personally and Ian got featured on the pisco is it purely none of that matters we're just going to go off taste and what i think i can sell it for or how i can sell it what are the things so there's kind of like two lines of thinking right now that i see with these these beverage managers and you know like the bartenders who are running these programs one of them is the obvious we've had so much demand for this product we need to get it like that's obvious make sense we're coming in asking for it and you need to get it yeah that's not happening yet yeah so right now the other is i don't know if scarcity is the right word it's the uniqueness it's the novelty of wait a minute like i can do something really cool with this product and i'm going to be the only bar in the area making it i need to get this product those are the bars so part of why i'm focusing on high-end mixology bars right now so it's like you know high-end proving to k fusion restaurants that's obvious but then it's high-end mixology bars yeah they're the feeder yeah they see like oh there's so much opportunity with this this is like a really i can sell this i can talk to patrons about this and i can tell a cool story about not only the product but also the brand those are kind of like the two the obvious decision or the not so obvious decision but it requires a certain level of creativity and outside the box thinking that not everybody has unfortunately so if i'm going to make this one work i need to reach the end consumer i need to build up a demand for this product so that it becomes an obvious decision for said beverage manager bartender whomever how do i do that so there's like the hand-to-hand combat approach which which i'll refer to it as brands have done this the playbook does exist but to your point i think it's it's capital intense intensive they're just befriending the bartender you're creating a community of bar tenders who love you so bartenders who's your best sales person arguably it's a bartender you're sitting down and this is sort of flipped on its head during covid but now it's it's coming back you're sitting at a bar you see something on the cocktail man you've never even heard of before what the what the heck is this the bartender is now selling you on why you should get that you were now you got to experience this product at an approachable price point i'm now more likely to go spend $50 on a bottle of suyo in the liquor store otherwise if i just saw this be like be scum or heard of this i'm not gonna spend $50 on this i'd rather spend $15 on a cocktail so i can try it first so bartenders are really so far in my experience have been your best selling point so how do you educate them but also incentivize them and incentivizes is the key that's difficult because you can't give them monetary incentives that's like literally illegal so make them like you give them swag what you see with the big budget companies is take them on trips to wahaka take them on trips to champagne like whatever category you're in so how can we be you know scrappy is a weird word i don't know if i love that word but like how can we think outside the box because we don't have the ability to do these things that other brands are doing so how can we organically build this community i mentioned that friends of suyo slash brand ambassadors befriending these these bar tenders and these bar owners make them understand what you are what you're doing and like you and then build it up that way because i found that if you're focusing on distributor as i think we just sort of bring it full circle we were talking about at the beginning to sell your distributors on it like that can only take you so far unless you're pumping big dollars into doing these big events and taking them on trips and whatnot our distributors really going to go to bat for you if you're not incentivizing them to do so you need to make their decisions so obvious people are asked people are clamoring for your product so i need to take you on now that's that's what we're doing right now we need to get people clamoring for our product and we're not there yet i look at it like this right like the friends of suyo program i would let's all let's all let's argue it's your highest yield but it's it's still i would say medium yield right so it's also hard and it's slow and you're dependent on yeah a thursday friday saturday it's like it's like being a stand-up comedian and you can only practice three days a week yeah and i'll tell you full transparency that has not been my hat my highest yield has been me going to tastings and selling you know six to ten bottles per per tasting that's been by far our highest yield not the not the friends of suyo program the branding angle i mean is the whole thing like you said right you want people to ultimately you got to build the brand that's the hard part that's like the hardest part like if you want to talk about slow game podcasting is the hardest fucking thing in terms of like you like you literally have to grow the brand and there's two avenues to do that you can either do word of mouth or i can pump like two million dollars into getting this everywhere so you can't you can't not see me and there's these two interesting games but what i've learned is i get to play both of them that's kind of the like the annoying truth and you have to do them in a way that one gets you paid right so that's problem one how do i get paid how does how do you put food on the table or just feed yourself and then two it's like how do i sell the vision to people that are crazy enough that view the world the way i do and what i've learned in that process is you start you start to go crazy yourself like me you start to just go full ham like you start to go crazy already yeah for sure for sure like i think when you meet me like i am unapologetically so driven to say my piece or to give you my opinion or to be like let's make it let's make it because what's holding you back is really usually just mental it's usually just your ability to see yourself it's like am i really that guy that's what's actually that's the hard part of entrepreneurship is just like you're saying like the brand is an extension of me and ian so is everything that holds you back that's the fucked up part and so what that means is once you've made your decision i say this all the time for like have you made your decision for christ right it's like the the thing in the for christ is it's like the it's like the the uh have you seen that that that little bit where it's like put that coffee down like like coffees for closers oh in that yeah so in that little monologue he's like have you made your decision for christ that's what he says in that monologue and so that's why i repeat it like that but it's basically like have you become convinced yourself and i think that's the hardest part of entrepreneurship it has the founder because everything is obviously an extension of you and it's so interesting right when you start your brand you're like i saw this problem in the market and then i wanted to solve it and so that's you being you right that's you saying i saw this it's my problem now i'm solving it it's my solution cool accept accept all the flaws that come with that it they're yours accept your inability to think big it's yours accept your inability to think and lean so heavily unapologetically into the mission that's yours that's the thing with entrepreneurship that's the thing i like about this podcast is because you could have a super successful company but we see it all the time where people aren't leaning in so what is leaning in look like that's that's the thing it takes on many different forms it depends it's like um some people want to be cute some people want to be nice you know i think some people you could be number one on the category let's say you were number one liquor category but you didn't want to upset the tequila companies and so you play nice how do you do that why do you do that what are you really solving for and so it's this thing of like even when you have success you can still be playing safe for reasons i don't know you know it's like that's why i love this game because to me it's less about business or success it's more about how committed are you willing to really be and that means accepting your fears driving through them like i don't know that's why i love this whole process that's why i love people's journeys too because it's like i see it so what i like about it is usually there's like a set of ideas and around like making money there's sets of doors and windows and you look at it and you're like i can do this i can do this i can do this i can do this and then you're kind of like no you can actually like those don't make any sense if they're low yield close them they have no value to you but you're just making yourself feel better and so then the like the solutions become this is the only path or these two options are the only path that's poetic in nature but i think you get it yeah and you bring up an interesting point because you could as you said go head to head with with tequila and make that gamble if you will where now you potentially create enemies who are trying to box you out of distribution or geographic footprint or whatever and like that doesn't feel like the right approach because i love what a lot of these brands are doing and i don't want to upset that category and then you know more so with it our brand was built on collaboration like literally in its dna at its core it's what we are doing is collaborating with other producers and trying to grow the category together because the the rising tide raises all ships like that's that's why we exist so like historically you've had these Peruvian producers and brands who as i said like are kind of chopping each other's legs off because they think you know there's 0.01 percent of market share that we have in the u.s. right now for pisco sours we're fighting for that 0.01 percent like what this is crazy the pie is massive why don't we work together and get 10 percent market share by doing things differently and they haven't really still figured that they haven't figured that out yet so what we do is like literally every single day we're talking to other pisco brands about how can we work work together to grow and to them it's kind of like wait what why would we do that that's the right attitude that's the right play but it's also like i would even take it a step further talk to a tequila brand about how you can work together they've done this you know what i'm saying that roadmap exists like that's that's the ultimate it's like you've already done it take me on little brother help me out show me the path well listen tell everyone they can find you where are they gonna where can they buy support you can find us at on instagram at suyopisco suyopisco you can find us online you can purchase suyoh on our website we cannot ship to all states but most states we can ship to and we are currently distributing in in eight different states which are new york new jersey connecticut pennsylvania indiana kentucky california and hopefully we'll grow that network with uh it's coming we're doing yeah thanks for coming on the show out thanks for having me on guys if you made it this far i bet you loved the episode so you should join our youtube channel membership for only two ninety and a month this gets you access to one the whole unabridged conversation two you get the episodes on monday one day earlier three you get two additional entries to our giveaways check out our instagram to see what we've given away and four you get access to seasons one through three that's over a hundred episodes of wisdom and life changing advice what are you waiting for join