 The National Industrial Court of Nigeria has adjourned the suit filed by the federal government challenging the ongoing strike by the Academic Staff Union of Universities ASU till the 16th of September for further mention. At Monday's proceedings, the Socioeconomic Rights and Accountability Project sought to join the suit. As an interested party, as its lawyer, Ebonlu Adeburua said that his client had filed a similar suit asking the court to compel the federal government to honour its 2009 agreement with the strike-inversity lecturers. The action of the federal government is totally condemnable in trying to abandon the negotiations that commenced already and not allowing that process to go through. We had filed an action on the 8th of September before this National Industrial Court asking the court to compel the government to respect and enforce the agreements that are pending and binding on the parties because we're not giving a good impression to the entire world. If you willingly enter into agreements and then for one reason or the other, one party to that agreement is not willing to abide by it and is trying to use force and that's why it's important that we believe that the court would intervene to ensure that that agreement remains enforceable. And then once that is done, we can then talk about how lecturers can go back to the universities and then this course will open because the state of the universities presently is totally decrepit. I am working with a lot of alumni in my own former university building hostels doing a lot of things to ensure that the welfare of students and lecturers is something that can be proud of. So we can allow a system whereby government abandon its own responsibilities and then the money that is supposed to be used for infrastructure and the education of our children have been embezzled. How much is Asu asking for? What does it take to build the universities? So we believe that those of us who went through those universities, it was because of the commitment of government that we were able to attend those schools and we came out. Response, the federal government's lawyer Tijani Ghazali opposed Adebu Rua's application to consolidate the suit stating that Seraph's application was premature as the case was billed for mention on Monday. Of your various organizations, you can't dictate to your organization how you would be paid. Your organization can decide to give you a check, can decide to pay direct into your account. One of their major issue is the issue of payment through either IPTIs or utas. We are saying that that cannot be dictated to government. We reserve the right to pay the way we believe is most appropriate in the circumstances. The 2009 settlement has been resettled in 2020. They are avoiding that of 2020 and always talking about the 2009. By the time we file all the necessary things, you'll have it to see. Meanwhile, Ferry lawyer Femi Falena, S.A.N., who represents Asu, said the Nigerian government often adopts a dilatory tactics that have a way of prolonging strikes. The suit by Seraph, what the law envisaged was that if you didn't work, you shouldn't be paid. But if I'm saying I am going to work, you know in the past, when Asu declares strike, the members always cover lost ground and they're going to do so this time. So there shouldn't be any blackmail here. Because when the government says there's no money, but you know there's money in the country. But it's a question of priority. Has the government given attention to education? And we must run a country where agreements are served by governments under the rule of law. Because once the government has signed an agreement with Asu and is registered in the Ministry of Labor, it's binding on the government. But the government has a way of violating its own commitment all the time. And that is where you have this strike. Well, we have joining us to talk on the brain train that is to heat Nigerian universities as a result of lecturers relocating abroad and educationist, Akinto Ehasan. He is the chairman of the Nigerian Union of Teachers Lagos State Chapter. Good evening. Good evening, Mr. Hassan. Good evening. Good evening. We also have good evening. I can hear you. And we also have joining him, Professor Indubici Ngokoma. He's a director, Center for Economic Policy, Analysis and Research, University of Lagos. Glad to have you join us on the news tonight, gentlemen. Thank you. Well, many lecturers in Nigerian universities have left the nation to pursue careers overseas. The federal government struggles to find a lasting solution to the ongoing crisis in the education sector. What do you see this going? Where do you see this going? I start with you, Mr. Hassan. A number of reactions in a situation like this. The great men and women who are managing the future of this country by providing that significant service of developing human capacity have been relegated. What do you expect? It is in this nation that we don't believe in the future generation. Because if we believe in developing this nation, we will start from the development of human capacity. They have done everything humanly possible to show understanding, to show the high level of commitment towards generating the kind of human capacity that will sustain the development and growth of this nation. We appear to be having a bit of challenge here in you, Mr. Hassan. So, Mr. Wokoma, please come in here. Where do you see this going? I hope your mic is better. Thankfully it is. I can hear you clearly. I hope you can hear me. Yes, I can. Please go ahead. All right. Thank you very much. I think the answer is already blowing in the wind as the song goes. When you walk in the police and you are not encouraged, I'm sure, as you walk in the team station, if there are no incentives for you to stay there or to continue staying there, you have this challenge of whether you want to stay or whether you want to look for alternative means of survival. Definitely in the investment arm in the system, and I know that at the junior level, those who are entering the system, junior lecturers actually are leaving. For those of us who are about to enter the partial lounge, you have staying. That is not good for the future of this country. Because when you have the best hands living, it's not good for education. For example, somebody like me, I came into academics because I was invited back. I was one of the best students in the economy departments when I graduated. There's a policy of inviting your best candidates to come back to make sure that the quality of the faculty is very good. It's excellent. Many of us joined because of that. We had all the encouragement, scholarship and all that. After some years, if you see how things are decaying, I left. I went into banking and I came back later. It's a problem. When you don't encourage the younger ones to stay, they will find their way and they will leave. I think government is damaging education, unknowingly. It's not only for those who are there now, but for our children and children's children. They may not have good teachers tomorrow. Because those who are good, who can teach properly, have not been encouraged to stay. I think it's a challenge that they need to tackle properly and make sure that they do not kill public education in Nigeria. Okay. Well, as the president, Professor Oshideko once said that there is no country in the world where the lecturers go on strike and still have their salaries seized. What do you take on this particular view of his? Is he correct? Yes. I agree with the president. Of course, I'm an Assembly member, which by virtue of my working afternoon, I will defend my president. But I think apart from depending the facts are clear. When you are employed in the investment system, you have three assignments. Number one is teaching. Second is research. And third one is serving to the community. I'm talking to you now. I'm working because by being made available to enlighten the public on issues on the economy in my area, on any issue, which I get such information from time to time, I'm serving. It's part of my work schedule. Teaching, research, and community service. So that means if you are for obvious reasons, if government makes you to withdraw one of those three, you are still working. So the idea that there's no workload to me, that is laughable because as you see, I'm sitting in the office, we're working. And it is so for many of my colleagues. So I believe government is just trying to fly the kite. They know it's something that cannot work. They've tried it before and it has never worked. The issue is that government needs to do the needful so that the teaching can resume and the students can only come to school. What is this need for? There have been many issues being thrown up and down by the lawyers representing both the government and ASU. One of them is the method of payment. Can you enlighten us more on this? Well, the method of payment is some, well, I don't want to comment on that because this is before the courts. So I think that that theory of whether you want to pay by this or that is before the court, the court will determine that like the the government lawyers say, well, I think the problems are very, very clear. Government has not been they have not tried to fund education. They've not made it for to fund education sufficiently. And for somebody who is on the same salary for 30 years, I think it's not so proper. So there are many issues that need to be addressed. And for many other people, the high quality faculty, and I say this broadly, the high quality faculty in Nigeria are in public universities. Those who are linked to the UN, to the World Bank, I'm an economist. The World Bank, the high-caliber faculty are in the public universities. So when you talk about a college of those that teach the children, the high-caliber, the public, the private universities, there are many of them actually grew up from our engagement with the private ones and they are able to gradually begin to develop their faculty. But the people that really will help this country, the high-caliber, I say broadly, they are in this high, this whole university, Soka in Badon Lagos, and these other ones that are coming up. So if government abandons this caliber, they are damaging the future of this country. Well, the Minister of Education, Adamu Adamu, has attributed the lingering strike action to the union's failure to come to a compromise, noting that no demand can be satisfied 100% by any government. How do you respond to this? Yeah, I don't think ASU is asking for 100%. They have obviously been shitting grounds. I think the issue is that government will want to negotiate. They will have a committee set up. The committee will prepare their report, give to government, government will throw it away, have another committee. So there has been no time that ASU has said we want 100%. So where do you see being the middle ground here? At what point do you think the government should get to where ASU will feel okay? It's not 100% but we can go with this. Ask who you're saying we want collective bargaining, which is not what the committee says, take this or leave it. As you say, let us talk collective bargaining. Once we sit down, then we will do some horse trading. So government should come to the table and engage in collective bargaining. Once they do that, whatever they arrive at, it's okay for ASU. Well, thank you so much, Professor Undubi Singokoma. He is a director, Center for Economic Policy Analysis and Research, University of Lagos. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you very much. Yeah, we also had Mr. Akintoya Hassan, the chairman of the Nigerian Union of Teachers, Lagos State Chapter. Unfortunately, the audio from his angle wasn't good enough to continue the discussion with him.