 Amed Gulak's killing intensifies tension in southeast on Biafra Memorial Day and APC responsible for bloodletting in Nigeria says the PDP. This is plus politics and I am Mary Anacol. Police Commissioner Eymol Abutu-Yaro says operatives of the command have arrested suspected killers of Amed Gulak, killers of Amed Gulak, former aide to former aide to ex-president Goodlock Jonathan in the state. Gulak was murdered by some gunmen in a weary Eymol state capital on his way to catch his flight at the Sambakwy airport. President Mohammed Bahari had earlier warned that those involved in the gruesome murder of Amed Gulak former adviser to President Goodlock Jonathan will not escape the wrath of the law. Now what is really happening in the southeast and how can it be resolved as soon as possible? Joining us to have this conversation is Dennis Amakri and Bishop Johnson, both of them security experts. Thank you very much Mr Amakri for joining us. Good evening, how are you? Great, great to see you. So I'm just going to jump right into it. Bishop is going to join us halfway through the conversation. It's very interesting to see, you know, all of the reactions coming as a result of the killing of Amed Gulak. It's unfortunate that this has happened, obviously. Nigeria is not really facing the best of its days recently, but there's so many reactions coming from both within Eymol state, from the north, and of course from the presidency. It's raised all kinds of tensions. As at yesterday there was a response from the the Arawa youth who have somewhat threatened, you know, the Eymol state government. But let's just examine, let's start with examining what led to the deaths or the assassination of Amed Gulak. Well, it's, thank you for having me. It's a situation which has come to a level where a quick address to this problem is required now because, you know, people have been dying, people have been kidnapped, and the common man is just crying out. Nobody's saying anything, but now you see it has started inching up. We're now getting up to politicians being shut down on the streets, and I think everybody's now worried. You know, and I think this is the stage that everybody has been looking for to happen before something serious is done about it. Because we can see that the country is sliding, is sliding whereby all kinds of for known government, and now we have a chance to know those government. And of course, I really congratulate the police for tracking these people down. And if actually they are the right people who did it, I suppose some of them were arrested and not all killed because those who are alive can be targeted to tell us what actually happened. So I sense a bot in, you know, your assertion or your statement about the people who have been arrested. You seem to be a bit uncertain as to if those people are really the people who are responsible. Why do you have that? I could sense it. You might say you're not really sceptical, but why is there that sense of scepticism in your voice? Well, I'm a little bit sceptical because when you look at it, the stage three were arrested. But later, if you read the report very well that the statement that the police, PPRO, sent out, he said that six people were killed and then the other four, all of them were fatally injured. I don't understand what that means because fatally means they are dead. Injured means they are still alive, but they were injured. So I don't understand that language of fatally injured. So could it be an issue of semantic sentence structure or just maybe an undertone or something the police is not telling us? I think that's wrong English. You don't see fatally injured. So what do they really mean by that? Fatally injured. It means that some people are still alive, some people are dead. So which one is which? So these are things that you want to be very clear about. Let's examine, let me just follow your lead. Let's examine the police report and what they have guarded. Like you have said, you're already picking holes in some of these things. The police statement sounds to me and onlooker because Gullac was supposedly a guest of the government and would have been escorted by policemen from government house to the airport, but then he decided to change plans. Could he had gotten away in our sense that something was off and maybe he was trying to evade it and then ended up in the hands of these people who killed him? I don't think so. If he's actually a guest of the government, I think they would be responsible for picking him up at the airport and also responsible for taking him back to the airport he was travelling on the escort. But for him to not take a car hire and then of course go by himself and the police commissioner have said it that he never told the police that he's travelling. There was no escort with him. So those are questions we want to ask in the investigation why was he not going with security escort and of course why did he leave the hotel with the car hire? So these are questions that we need to get from the investigation that is going on. So let me put you in that position now as a security person if you're posted outside a person's hotel or you are assigned to watch a person and be his security guard for example. How does that person slide by you to take a public transportation and leave as far as towards the airport without you getting any wind of it because it sounds more like there were police officers for him but then he somewhat evaded those people and took a public transportation and hence my question before now could there have been something that he says what could have I mean let's just play with the mind of you know a security person what would make another person want to run away from security and run to the airport? I don't think so. I really don't think so. I don't think so. I don't think that he went to the band door and took a cab and then disappeared and then of course they traced him all the way and killed him you know. I don't really think so because definitely the people that were supposed to take him to the airport might not have been there and of course if they are a security man that are assigned to come and look after him at the hotel and they couldn't tell us that a cab came in there and they couldn't find him like that of course he he slipped into a cab and left. I think there are too many holes asking for answers you know so let them do a good job in investigation and then of course we'll get the truth out of it because I don't believe all the apparent stories those are apparent stories you know that he took a cab why did he take a cab you know there were if he suggests to the government of the state then there was been some kind of escort that was given to him considering the level of a politician that he was you know so I think there are a lot of questions that demand answers. Well there are lots of things that may not be adding up for for for us who are outsiders and for those of us who have read the police stories there's a lot that's not adding up I was hoping that bish johnson could join us because he's in emo state so he could answer some questions well we'll move away from that and then maybe come back to it. Let's talk about the fact that the araway use are giving the governor of emo state and the people an also a medium of source and they're also threatening retaliation. This is this is one of many other kinds of tensions that could be traced along ethnic lines that are boiling in the country and now this one seems to be one of those that might just have struck a nerve. For a security person should we be worried about the source of metam and the fact that even the former senator sheil sani has also you know waded into the matter saying that there's no need for tempers to flay. What do you think the government needs to do and I'm not just talking about emo state government the federal government in terms of this kind of situation because I'll tell you what it's never been heard of that a norson politician was killed in the east or the southeast I mean for ebolaigey was here where he here in in in the southwest and for other people like Delegua so this is the first of its kind. What does this mean for our security and of course the the already strained relations that we have at regional levels? The only advice I'll give at this time is that they should not politicize this issue. They should not politicize it because I know a lot of people will just use you know they are looking for a tinder you know to spark off so that they can go ahead and do whatever they want to do. This is a case we know it's not a common one but how about the people that have been killed all over the place you know they should not use it they should not politicize it let the security people investigate it properly and honestly and then of course the people that will be hearing of unloaded gunmen unloaded gunmen you know and some of the policemen that are killing are not just south on us some of the policemen that they've been killing are not on us. Why did this come in at this time or because they are not politicians let them not politicize this issue you know we know that Abed Gulag is a politician but they should allow the investigational to go on and then of course we can get a better feel of what's happening but I think it's a wake up call that if we continue the way we are going more prominent people might be falling to the bullets of unloaded gunmen you know that's a new term that is all over the country now. Let me follow up on that because the reactions that we've seen on social media and in certain quarters is also querying the police you know in terms of Gulag yes he's a politician but it's not necessarily an elected official and so they're saying why would he be given police protection they've also said that I mean what about the other people like you have rightly stated who have been killed by these same unknown gunmen the swiftness uh into action that the police has I mean the speed in which the police you know swung into action has also been queried if it were an ordinary person would the killers have been found and what about the other people who have not gotten justice like a Gulag is the law or is law enforcement operating on double standards or is it that the life of one person is more valuable than the other? Not necessarily but I know that the police will swung into action when the personality is a higher level in society you know and that's why many people are saying that why are we constricting a lot of our mobile policemen to be following politicians whether they are in office or not you know a local government chamber will carry out of a right hand uh more polls more moving around why don't you deploy all these people to take care of society to be safe for everybody than to send them to particular individuals to be taking care of them so I think these are things that the police should be thinking of this style because it shows now that whether we are trying to send more polls or whoever to take care of high net individuals or politicians or former politicians or people who have held top offices you know they should be putting the policeman to take care of everybody make the society safe so that everybody will be covered not just those net worth individuals that we are directing this security too at this time. Well let's go to Emol State I should have started from there but I was hoping I would speak to the police piano but let's go to Emol State lately it's been a hotbed of sorts if it's not a police station being burned it's a prison break if it's not that then it has to be one story tied to ESN or the other why has the security situation in Emol State a state that used to be relatively peaceful and hardly in the news for those kinds of things suddenly become a hotbed for a security person why do you think that is this more of a political you know tension or is it purely ethnic or is it because of lack of good leadership and good governance that is the very very high tension current going on underneath the Emol State and of course the people the the the the the personnel that are involved with this drama are aware you know Emol State used to be very very quiet yes but the kind of politics that is going on in Emol State right now that's why I keep on saying that the politicians are the threat to security in Emol State and of course they need to come back and put their heads together to solve this problem. When you say politicians are you talking about the government in power or the opposition what exactly do you mean by politicians? Government out of power, government in power, friendly government all of them are part of it so that they say high tension of high where politics going on in Emol State and it should be solved. They should put their heads together and solve it before that state you know blows out. Let me go to onchatted water. I know that the issue of ESN and iPub is you know a sensitive issue even the NBC would be raising eyebrows right now but the case in which every little thing that happens and I'm not in any way saying that killing people or what has happened to Mr Gullock is a good thing I'm totally against it but I'm saying the fact that the police has pointed fingers at the ESN and iPub for the killing is it really the ESN and is this their stocking trade? Are they now unknown gunmen because the police has pointed fingers at them and accused them but the ESN has come out to deny it so is this a case of giving a dog a bad name just to hang it or is there more to with the MITSDI? I think they should stop this unknown gunmen nomination. Well who are these unknown? How are they unknown? You know the police themselves have confronted them, engaged them, arrested some of them according to what the commissioner of police is saying. Have you interrogated them to find out who are the others that are part of this unknown gunmen? They cannot be unknown gunmen in Nigeria, in a net slave like Igbo States. Where do they come from? Where do they live? Where are they coming out from? We should be able to, the intelligence should be able to tell us who are these unknown elements. So whoever, however unknown they are, should be, that information should be in the fingers of the police right now and other security agencies. So whoever they are, they should find out who they are and solve this problem once and for all because we cannot keep on saying unknown gunmen all over the place. It has become a national literature without unknown gunmen or unknown gunmen or whatever it is. Could this situation have been unavoid, could this situation have been avoided from the onset? I mean I'm talking about the deaths of Mr Gulag and all that has been playing out in the most stage. Of course the governor has been coming out to talk tough. I've tried severally to reach out to government officials on this issue but of course it was to no avail. But again I'm asking could this have been avoided, knowing that there have been so many things happening in Emolstad just as you have said, mostly according to you caused by politicians. It makes me really wonder where's the voice of the people of Emolstad because ordinary people will be caught in this crossfire. I'm guessing that Mr Gulag was just you know caught also in this crossfire obviously a man that was going about his business probably not pass of whatever was happening but hey this is the situation now. The governor seems to be talking tough but we're not seeing action. So what could have been done to avoid this situation because right now one side of the divide is threatening they want to make sure that they also get a pound their pound of flesh. The other side is still trying to find out what could have led to this man's death but all of this could have been avoided. Like I said they should not politicise it because of where he came from or whatever. He's a politician, he has friends, he was a special advisor to the former president who is from the south south. So it is not an issue whereby he was in strange area. He must have been in Emolstad for a reason and I think the investigators should find out why he was in Emolstad and if he was in Emolstad whose guest was he and if he was the guest to the person was the idea security arrangement for him or he himself was even trying to take or trying to be discreet because that is another thing that we might want to look at. Being a top personality and of course he was not even wearing his bavarian gown or anything or just wearing a t-shirt and a jeans in a cap. That means the guy was on that cover and if he's on that cover why should somebody know that movement? Who is available to know that kind of movement? So like I said there are too many questions for investigators to come up with and when they ask the right questions they will find out what is going on. But don't you think that with the fact that they have because we saw dead bodies obviously and like you said we're not certain if some people are still alive who can answer these questions. But was this quick response and people being arrested or killed? Do you see this investigation going further than this? I mean despite the fact that he is who he is. Maybe because these people have been killed we might not this might be the end of it knowing how our security agents operate. What does this mean generally for the security of this country? The police said that they arrested three and the rest were killed. That's what the president said except they will say that they killed all of them. So we want to know if three are still alive we want to interrogate them and find out exactly what is the plan, who sent them and then why are they sharing onions to people. There are so many questions. So many so many questions. A very good investigator is going to get into this and tell us more about the questions going on. What does this mean about the Nigerian security situation across board? Let's not forget that over the weekend the president was on a flight to Mali to deal with the fact that there was a cool attempt or in fact there was a cool in Mali. But then our backyard is continuously on fire. Yes of course as a hierarchy of crucial of a course I think is the who is the president now I can't tell. Is he the president? No I think he's the Ghanaian president right now. But the Ghanaian president is the chairman of a course so I say hierarchy you know because the Nigerian president is a very hierarchy member of a course and as the member there there is concerns about Mali and Mali has to be looked at because it is important to make sure that there are no coups in Mali because as soon as there are coups in Mali from history we know that it will spread into across West Africa and I think this is a time to dip it in the board and make sure that nothing does not go across and then of course we have all kinds of terrorist groups al-Qaeda, the Islamic background, Eastwap in West Africa all trying to work together to make sure that they keep West Africa and the Sahel very unstable and this is not good for the governments that are in West Africa. But Mr McCree does charity not begin at home if this kind of actions were seen in Nigeria by our president if he was acting as much as he's done for Mali in Nigeria half as much would we not get some form of respite from the insecurity that we're facing at least Nigerians would feel some sucker. I'm asking wouldn't it be better because we have a former president Goodlock Jonathan you know as an envoy from Nigeria handling that issue why does the president have to go there what about us? I'm just curious, I'm just a curious person asking. Former president Goodlock, former president Goodlock is a special envoy said by Epo was not by the president and of course Epo was have decided that look for what is going on I will listen to the special envoy let us meet let's get together and he has to be there because he's the he's the president of Nigeria so he has to be there and of course people at home will go ahead and continue solving the problem when he comes back so I don't think there is anything there irregular about him attending to the situation with Burley. Okay well I want to thank you Mr Amakri Dennis Amakri is a former director with the DSS and of course he's a security expert thank you very much for speaking with us we appreciate it. Thank you for having me. All right well thank you all for staying with us we'll take a short break and when we return we will speak about what the PDP believes is responsible for the bloodletting in the country still doesn't