 Good afternoon, everyone. My name is Angela and I work for the town of Amherst. This is a meeting of the Jones library building committee. This meeting is being recorded and will be uploaded to the town of Amherst YouTube channel shortly. And at this time, I would like to turn things over to Professor Austin sir. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So I believe this meeting was noticed was this meeting noticed as a meeting of the building committee and the design subcommittee. So we will do what we have done in the past, which is we'll convene both committees. And then move forward. So, uh, I'm going to ask members of the building committee to signify their presence vocally Sharon. Here. Christine. Yeah. Paul. Present. Sean. Yeah. Alex. Didn't hear you Alex. Alex. Thank you. Thanks so much. And Austin Saradis here. Okay. So the building committee is convened. Christine, do you want to convene the design subcommittee? I'll say that. Three of our four members are here. So we have a quorum and we're open. Great. Thank you so much. Okay. The first item of business. Is the approval of minutes of the building committee. First from February 2nd. 2023. Is there a motion to approve those minutes? So moved. Thank you. Is there a second? Second. Any corrections to those minutes? Okay. I'm going to ask you to signify. You vote. Yes. If you approve. No, if you don't Sharon. Yes. Christine. Yes. Paul. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Sean. Yes. Alex. Yes. And Austin votes. Yes. Thank you. Next are the approval of the minutes of February 9th. Is there a motion to approve those minutes? So moved. Fabulous. Okay. Any corrections to those minutes? Okay. Yes. To approve. No. No. No. No. Okay. Yes. To approve. No. Not to approve Sharon. Yes. Christine. Yes. Paul. Yes. Sean. Yes. Alex. Yes. And Austin votes. Yes. The agenda suggests that there are minutes. From the design subcommittee. Christine back to you. Okay. So we have minutes. February 2nd. And I will call out. Are there any. Emotion to. Sorry, I'm getting ahead of myself. Emotion to approve. So moved. A second. A second, please. Thank you. Are there any changes, suggestions? I see and hear nothing. So we'll take a vote for approval. Just as a note, they're the exact same as the. So, uh, Sharon. Yes. Austin. Yes. And myself. Yes. So three of four since I. Thank you. Sorry. Thank you. Broke up a little bit there. Thanks. Okay. Thanks so much. I just wanted to make sure George wasn't here and he still, he's not. So thanks. Okay. Next item on the agenda is the reports from our. Distinguished town manager. I have nothing new to report. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I need your update. I also have nothing to update other than we have a couple of meetings scheduled tomorrow. To go over some of the upcoming costs for the project. But at the next meeting, we should have a lot more to update on that. That's fabulous. Thank you. Thank you so much. Craig, how nice to see you. Thank you, Austin. Likewise. Will. Nice to see you too. Josephine. Thank you, Austin. If I may, I'll share my screen. Good by me. Fantastic. Got it. I mean, just click on the right box. So quickly we'll run through schedule. See if I can maximize this there. Okay. So our red line has moved over. We are further a little bit deeper into design development approaching the halfway point. And then we're going to move on to some of the design effort. Turning our view to the bottom of the screen. We'll talk about this a little bit later, but we are entering into the secure temporary library space. Block of time. For upcoming meetings. This is. Now the graphic, the design team's work plan. And then I messied it all up with all these red lines and the color palette. And then we're going to move on to the visual. So here we are today. The week started on the 13th. Today we're at that red dot. Fungal Alexander is going to present to us. The exterior color palette. For your consideration. Then no meeting next week. As it is February vacation and we'll be a challenge for some. We'll be a challenge for some of you. We'll be a challenge for some of you. And then the week of the 27th, the actual data believe is March 2nd. And at that meeting, we'll be looking for confirmation or approval of the. Exterior color palette, which you'll see tonight. And we'll also be seeing the updated design development landscape design. Then we've got another week of no meeting. And at that point, we'll be looking for confirmation or approval of that landscape design that you'll see in two weeks. So that's the upcoming then. That's same information is repeated here just as a reminder. So here we are today on February 16th. The meeting for next week has been canceled or rather consolidated with the meeting on March 2nd. Beyond that. And that will end or conclude the cluster or batch of design intensive meetings that this committee and the, and the. Design subcommittee have been wonderful about. Entertaining. And we'll move more towards sort of monthly updates. We will have just eclipsed the 50% DD. For our March 16th meeting. We'll give you a little update then. Then the next one will be April 13th at that point, we'll have eclipsed the 75% design development. And then we'll have a little bit of a gap in meetings and we'll. Convene again, unless something comes up, but we'll convene again the very beginning of the summer to approve the final design development package, which will include not only design documents, but also a new cost estimate that is being read that will be reconciled to cost estimators per the usual procedure. So a lot happening, but I'm very happy to report that the design development, the end of the schematic design and design development has been proceeding according to schedule much thanks to the design team and this committee and all of your diligence. Next, are there any questions about the schedule? So Craig, I just think it would be at all of these meetings, we want to be clear. What is it that we are going to be asking the committee to do tonight? Fantastic. Very good point. Thank you, Austin. So tonight, you'll be getting two presentations. One will be the those exterior color palette. And the other will be a continuation of the discussion about the interior interior and exterior renderings. Yeah. So no decision is needed tonight. Rather there'll be two decisions. If you feel compelled to decide on either that is okay. If you want to wait until our next meeting. March 2nd. Those will be the two primary decisions at that meeting. And then the next big decision will be the landscape design at the March 16th meeting. Josephine, do I have that correct? Is there anything else that you need from the LBC here tonight or in the upcoming meetings? No, that's correct. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Craig, before you go on any questions for Craig about the schedule. Sharon. I just have one question. I know we're going to talk about the renderings, but you, do you guys know once we make those decisions, when we'll be able to have them in hand? Ellen Josephine. I think we. Usually budget a couple of weeks of time to develop them. Yeah. I want to say three Josephine on average. Yeah. Okay. I'm going to go on the exterior first. That would be our approach. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Sharon. Any other questions about the schedule? Okay, Craig. Thank you. Let's see the next thing. Oh, I just wanted to echo what Sean was saying about, yes, we have some meetings coming up to talk about known. And potential additional costs that the project is facing. So I'm going to go ahead and go ahead and go ahead. And on the temporary location front, I just a quick report. Sharon's been doing a great job. Working with local real estate folks. To learn what's available in the market and the Amherst market and what might best serve the community's needs. While the main Jones library is out of commission. Or be under construction. So far, she's rounded up a bunch of information and we have. A lot of information to present at an upcoming meeting. Sort of where, where that stands and maybe make some recommendations and look to this committee for guidance and direction. So that's coming up soon. Great. John. John. Just a quick question on the temporary location. That's not, that's not our decision ultimately though. Is that it? That's a library decision. I think it's a library board decision in consultation. The library director will obviously be. I don't know if you and Paul, but, but it's not this committee's, we're not going to vote on anything. Okay. I don't think so. I mean, I think there, but there may be some budget implications. But in terms of, I think the jurisdiction of deciding, do we approve of this location or that occasion would rest with the trustees. Very good. Thank you for that clarification. That concludes my report. I would like to turn things over to the design team. Okay. Okay. So the order we'll go in is that exterior color palette. And then wrap things up with the interior exterior renderings. Could I just ask one quick question? And. If this is going to mess things up, ignore it. Where are we on the conversation about the skylight. In the, in the building. The remaining skylight. Yeah. So I. Correct me if I'm wrong. Yeah. I think that this design phase design development phase is when that new concept is going to take shape. I don't think it has taken shape yet. Great. But yes, by the end. When do we say. So by the end of April, probably even sooner than that, the design team will have maybe a recommendation or. Design for you to. Great. Thanks so much. Okay, correct. Ellen. That's correct. So you want us to kick it off? So thanks. Nice to see everybody. You have the packet that was sent out to you. I'm just going to take us through it. Great. Thanks so much. So yes, we are going to run through the package now as Craig mentioned, we'll run through exterior first. And we. We're going to run through the front cover here with all the existing photos just so we can have something to go back to as we're looking through some of the. Colors and. Materials through the presentation. So. All of you probably remember this slide. We're going back to just our colored circles of. What all the materials are. So we'll run through that first. And we are highlighting the main material here as number one, which is the brick. Number two, as you can see. Is our. Material that will change. From the brick. And that is was originally metal panel. And we had put that as one of the VE items, which we are looking at potentially hardy board at the moment, and we'll go through that during the presentation. And, and then we have our other major material, which is the roof. Which is a standing metal roof. So just a touch base first on the major material of brick here selected. This by no means is showing you color ways, but it's just giving you an indication of the. The material that we chose as the main. Driver. We had looked at some other alternatives during the design presentation. If you recall, we had looked at slate sculptings and we had looked at eras craft. But we would like to move forward with brick and all brick. Material for. The entire addition. Of the design. Going back to the discussion on. The hardy board material we had presented this to you at some point during one of our design presentations. We had a little bit of an affordable approach. In lieu of a metal panel. We do want to talk a little bit. In more depth about hardy board and we have a slide. That we're going to go to next to. To go into a little more detail about this material. One second, just being, could you just zoom in on that rendering just so folks can see where the number two is in case they're on a laptop. Can you see that better? It's the pop. Yeah, thank you. And we will have other locations where this would be introduced. It's just not as prevalent. This would be. Above the second floor level where we have the elevator head house and a bridge connection to the top floor of the original building. And it's as we mentioned that you won't see it quite. Quite as much. So this is really the portion this pop out here that Ellen just noted where you'd be seeing this. So going on to the next slide. I think maybe Craig, you might want to speak to this one a little bit before we get into some of the details on how you party board, but Craig was so kind to lend us this. And certainly, so this was a great party board image. So we thought it was important to show tonight. Yep. Thanks, Josephine. So this was a construction manager's office that I happened to be visiting. As you can see on the right hand side, there is a historic or historic appearing building on the left hand side is an addition. The addition was done. About 15 years ago. I believe it was a Perkins Eastman project and consigui is the construction manager who owns this property. On the, that left, that big gray area. And that facade, that is one of these. I don't know if it's hardy brand hardy board, but it is one of those materials. And, you know, from a distance, you can see a couple of things. One, it is a panelized system. So you can see all the four by eight sheets running both vertically and horizontally. What they did here was pretty clever. It was looks like it was a very efficient use of the materials. You know, there's not a lot of cutting. But if you look closer, you can see this image on the right. You can start to see little fasteners, right? So it's an exposed fastener. So from a distance, it could almost, almost pass for maybe a stone panel. But as you get closer, then you realize, okay, this is a, some kind of composite material. It's got exposed fasteners, which have done nicely. Can be tidy. But there are obviously some downsides. I think we talked about that in the past and one of them is that it's not going to wear or last as long as say a metal panel, a composite metal panel. And, you know, Josephine's got the hand on the screen is kind of, kind of point highlighting where there's been some streaking in this particular case. You know, not, not terrible, but not great. So when I saw this building, I immediately thought about our project here, the Jones library and said, Hey, this would be a nice kind of quick case study, just a couple of quick pictures to show you what is one potential outcome. Thank you, Craig. You're welcome. Good, good. Just showing before you get in, I just want to actually ask a question which was explained. But it'd be good to refresh at least my recollection. Hardy board is made of what? The good question. That is a great question. So I do not know the exact composition of it, but it's what's referred to as a, a class of material called composite materials. And so oftentimes it's a, a raw material like a cellulose, like wood fibers mixed with some kind of bonding agent, oftentimes a glue or a resin. And there are some of their strengths are they're dimensionally stable. So unlike a piece of wood, which shrinks and swells, composite materials don't shrink or swell to moisture. They don't, they're, they're dimensionally stable with, with temperature. Usually they're easy to cut. Usually they're very consistent quality. Look, if I was to, sorry, look, that isn't, if I was to touch it, does it feel, what does it feel like? If you tell me Hardy board, that's not going to tell. Yeah. So this, this particular brand or, or model has a little bit of tooth to it or texture to it. So if you had your eyes closed and you put your hand against it, are you familiar with a home of soap? It's like a paper product that's pressed into board form. Oftentimes tack walls are made out of that. So that's what it would feel like. You feel like kind of paper, like a blend between paper, wood. It's probably the best description of it. There's a little texture. It's not perfectly smooth. It's the type of thing that if you are, if you took a hammer to it, you could probably put a hole through it. Yes. Yeah. And actually just the technical, it's made of cement, sand and cellulose fibers. And if there was to be like a big hail storm with the hail big hail storm, that would have caused kind of, talks on the Hardy board. Not that I'm aware of. Okay. All right. Metal panels is that's actually sort of a risk with metal panels is that you get those little dense. Yeah. I'm going to show on and then Christine, sure. Thanks. Awesome. So just a couple of questions. aesthetically it doesn't look great when you have a big a bunch of it all together. Is that sort of what the objective was? I just want to make sure I'm interpreting your comments correctly. So I was presenting this with no ulterior motive. Just here's an example of a building I came across here in Massachusetts that has this treatment. I would tend to agree with you that a whole lot of it uninterrupted is a look, but not necessarily what the library is going for. But I think in the design, Fingal Alexander has produced most of your facade is going to be brick and then you have some areas that would be this material certainly more limited than what we're looking at here. And that was just my second follow-up question is in the presentation, Josephine, that you're presenting. I see the section around the windows. Are there any other sections that are that large or uninterrupted where we might get the effect that we see on the screen now? We have the other area that you'll find it is in our bridge connection where the elevator meets the staff area on the top floor of the existing building. So in your presentation, this is number two, right? This is what shows up as number two? Yes. And you can't see that in that rendering. There are parts of it that you will see from within the space of the second floor because you can look up and see the bridge. There will be spots that you can see it from the front. Very small area. We showed an exterior rendering image last week of that spot actually where you would see it from the other side of Amity Street. Those are the areas where you would potentially see this from. And I guess just one last question. So Craig, you spoke about the texture. Is that sort of the standard texture for this type of material? There's no polished version or shinier version that might maybe look more like the photo that seems more like a shinier finish around the windows. That's a great question, Sean. There may be. I just don't, I'm not. We can look into that, Sean. It won't be shiny. It'll be more, it will be flatter maybe. But we also were going to reach out to the Hearty product rep to ask him why this is doing that. It's hard to figure the rhythm of it. I don't know if it's streaking down from the roof, but we thought it was worth the conversation just to see what they say about it. Okay. Thank you. And before Christine gets in, Craig, do you have any idea how old that building, the new part of the building is? How long that Hearty board has been there? Yes. The project was completed 15 years ago, approximately 15 years ago. Okay. Thank you so much. Christine? Yeah, thanks. I have a couple of things. One, I was wondering the same thing if that's actually the Hearty board being stained or it's just run off from the roof and it's dragging black, either dirt or paint or something from the roof. And that's something to keep in mind on ours. It looks to be like a white or a light color, so it would show up, leave dirt or whatever, and whatever we're picking for our roof to make sure that the black doesn't run off. And can't you paint Hearty board? I mean, you don't want to, but if 15 or 20 years goes by and it's looking dingy, it's my understanding that you can paint it. Yes, I believe that is true. Thanks. Thank you, Christine. Okay, back to you, Josephine. Great. Thank you. So, moving on to the next slide. We're at number five, which is the roof material. This hasn't changed from previous presentations. It's standing scene roof and we're moving forward with that. And we just have some images here with dormer pop outs too, just because it sort of speaks to what we are doing along the west side with our dormers. And now we'll get into the color palette. And so we are going to show two ways that we can go with the color. We sort of want to not, we want to be quiet with the new, with the addition and let the existing building speak. So we're looking at more solid tones for the brick, but we're going to show you two palettes and one is a cooler gray palette. And these are by no means indicating brick patterns or anything else on the slide. It's just really showing you a cooler gray and what that would mean. I think we had mentioned in the past that we are going towards a different size brick, which is called a Norman brick and it's a longer, thinner brick. And we may change the pattern and that's of course going to be happening as we're developing the drawings. But that's what we're still looking into. But for this conversation, we're really focusing in on the color for to get some feedback from all of you. So we're going to take you to the warm gray next, which has more earthy tones. And the original building really has a mix of different colors. There's grays and browns and it lends itself to going in a couple of different directions really with the addition. I don't know, Ellen, if you have anything to add to that, but this is the warm gray palette that you're seeing right now. Right. And I think just the more we're looking at, you know, studying the existing exterior, it is, there is quite a bit of color in the existing building. And that's why we're heading towards these two gray palettes, either a warm or a cool. We think it's the, there's a fair amount of gray in it in the existing building in different values. So before Christine gets into this slide, what you've called warm gray, my eyes suggest that that's brown. Can I say one thing? That's a really good point, Austin. One of the challenges of this remote is everybody's screen reads slightly different. Yeah. And as we, we will be making a trip out to Amherst so we can actually, once we kind of hone in on a color palette, we will bring all the samples to you so you can see in person because of that. It's an issue. Okay. So what looks to me to be brown may not be brown at all. No, it's a little more creamy beige than the cool. Okay. Okay. Christine. Yeah. So with the cool and the warm, if just for you, do you mind rolling back up to the first drawings you gave? So looking at our existing building with new eyes and I know photos, I mean all the way up to actually the Jones library. Yeah. So again, it could be the photos or my screen, but you know, looking at that, it looks so warm to me rather than cool right from the get-go. And as Ellen said, there are a lot of colors in there and some of that brown you're talking about. So I was just wondering, then if you roll down to the next slide, Josephine, where you had a rendering, that seems to me a little bit more of a cool gray. And then I don't know, I guess we can only have one screen up at a time. But in a way, now looking at this, I go, oh, this doesn't actually go as well, maybe with the front, because it is too cool. But you know, I don't know, what are you guys thinking on that? So sure, I can speak first. I think everyone's eyes are different. So Ellen, you can totally totally disagree with me. But to me, this was a little bit warmer, because I see some tans and beiges and a little bit of brown and the gray. But again, it could be the computers. It certainly could, because it doesn't take too much actually to cross that line. Sometimes it's sort of the colors that are within the grays can really range. And I think on the roof here, Christine, I would agree, it's kind of cool on the roof. Yeah, you know. But again, the way this rendering showing the side that you see the sun on, definitely warmer than the no sun's side. So that's really reality, right? So it's going to feel a little different depending on the time of day. So if we just roll back up to our existing lovely library. So yeah, is this looking warmer than it really is because of the photo or? I think it's warm. I mean, you guys see it every day. I mean, it just the tones, it feels warm. But I don't know, what do you, what's the rest think? I mean, yeah. So Christine, are you also okay? Thank you, Christine, Sean, and then Sharon. So I tend to like the color scheme on the back and the next slide. If you go down one, I think that looks nice with the sort of the contrast in the brick. So it's not just a solid brick. I think that goes well and goes well with the current library, the front. And if you go down back to the warm brick section real quick, the one that had the different options, to me, like these look like they're not all the same. So the one that looks closest to me is the first one that looks like that's most consistent with the rendering that you already have on the left that has some darker colors that kind of pop out from the lighter background. The other two seem very sort of flat. So I would sort of lean towards that first one because I think it is closest to the rendering that you've done already, which I like. The first one, Sean, being this image that I see as brown. Yeah, that definitely has brown highlights. I just want to make sure. Okay, thank you, Sean. Sharon. Yeah, so I do get to go into the John's Library every single day. And so to me, it reads as cool. But I don't think that matters. And I tend to prefer cool colors. I like the cool gray palette. But honestly, I'm actually most interested to hear what the architects, what you guys think, you know, you guys have seen the building plenty of times. And I'd like to go with your gut. Thank you. So I would make the observation, if you go back to the rear of the building, that is the northern, the northern western side of the building that we're seeing. So that's going to be in shade all the time. So we're not going to see sunlight on it. So I worry about the the rare cooler bricks there. And I think the the Austin brown look is what I would lean towards with the variability. And that is sort of more approximates what's on the front of the building. And I would just be conscious that this part of the building that we're looking at is really not see the sun for the most part, except on, you know, at the end of the day. Thank you. Alex, do you want to, you want to weigh in at this point about cool, warm? So could you go to the cool color palette choices? Yeah, so I think I'm somewhat feeling what Sean commented on. I mean, you know, when you're doing this online and absent touching real materials and looking at real materials against the existing building, you know, I'm sort of left with other building options that you presented us with. And of the ones you presented, I also like the warm color left brick variation. But again, that's not really about palette, I think as much as the pictures you've chosen. So I'm I think I lean toward warmer colors opposite of Sharon. Sorry, Sharon. But yeah, again, I just I have a really hard time on a flat screen knowing what my screen might look like compared to what these pictures really look like weighing in much. Okay. Paul, is this a new? Just a quick I assume that you're going to bring out Rick samples at some point and put them up against the building. I mean, I think we can't really make a decision on these renderings. Yep, we would definitely do them, Paul. And I think we were just looking for a general we're heading towards the cools we're heading towards the warms just, and we will we'll bring out a couple of samples of, you know, all of the material. And we'll see that before things need to be finalized, right? Correct. Okay. All right, Christine. Yeah, I think I, I think I lean towards the warms, but seeing in real life would be definitive. But so Sean brought up like on the rendering, it's bricks of different colors, you know, shades. And you all early architect FAA say you were looking towards a solid brick because of the multiply at the front. Go ahead, Josephine. You did mention that we've talked about this in the office a few times. Right. Yeah. I mean, internally, we've discussed having more of a solid feel just to not take away from the original building. And, you know, not that we're trying to draw a line, but having that differentiation from the original, which is usually an important factor in addition. We thought that that would be a nice, a nice touch, but we also aren't drawing the line where it's all going to be one color. We have, you know, a stone band that's running around the first floor. And at that point, we probably will break the base and change the color and or the brick pattern. So even though we will we are looking at something more solid, we still will probably have two colors. Right. And when you say, when we, when we say solid, it's not that they're all, there's less variation in the brick, Christine. So, Josephine, would you mind going back to the existing Jones? This one. No, the, the, from Amity Street, that. So, and if you really look at this from the side, you know, where the stone, there's a lot of color in there. And we just want to be careful that what we're doing is not competing with that lot of color. So again, we'll bring you out. The next step is to actually get samples. And before we do any final selection, we'll have, you know, we can get, Josephine, how big is that sample for that other project you're doing? It's like four by three by five. I think it's three by she had mentioned three by three, but it might be a slightly larger than that. Right. So we'll have big samples that you guys can look at. We'll have the mortar in it that you can see the different colors. So this is just the beginning of the, of the selecting the final. There's a number of stages. Yeah. Okay. And that board that Ellen just mentioned will show you some of the variation in that brick that we choose because there's always variation in the brick. And just to bring up at that time, I was also thinking mortar, you know, if you go to tile in your bathroom, right? Oh, you know, white, gray, and that adds to more colors. But I, like Sharon said, I, I would default a lot to, to you all, the architects in trying to find that balance between making it look interesting, but not too busy, which I think that's what you are experts at. Thanks. Well, I don't want to dissent from deferring, but, but I do want to say that Ellen, you persuaded me, right? What I'm seeing is very busy color wise. And the left warm palette one feels to me very busy color wise. And like you, I worry if you would choose a brick pattern that's as busy color wise as the existing library, that would not be great. And while I generally don't like a stark contrast in things, I'm persuaded at least initially, tentatively, that we don't want to replicate busyness. And that's something that is less busy than this is going to stand us in good stead, as opposed to we're looking at two different very busy patterns of, of, of a brick and slate. Sean. And I'm not going against what I said earlier, but to Austin's point, maybe this is part of the rendering discussion. Is it possible is it possible to get a view where the brick meets the existing building, because the view we have from the back, all you see is the new stuff. And I think it looks really nice. But I think to really kind of get a sense of how busy, you know, how it comes together would be to see that front sort of corner view where they meet. Because I think that might change my opinion. Yeah, if it, if it kind of is too busy with the brick that I could see or the existing stone that I could see not going that direction. Great. Craig, are you going to help us? Maybe what I wanted to point out is there is some existing red brick on the existing building, which will remain. And so I think I think it will remain. So maybe that the new brick doesn't actually touch any of the old stone. It doesn't Craig, but they're close, right? If you're looking from Amityville to the side from Amityville. Sorry about that. You see the, you see the, the gambrel end with the stone and you will see this. So we can, we can produce that. I don't know, Sean, if what you're rendering, we can put some color on one of the elevations to help kind of give you a sense of what that is. So Ellen and Josephine, so far have we helped you? I think you have. We are giving you a couple of weeks to think it over, but it's, it's definitely sounding like you're trusting our better judgment when it comes to, to the brick samples that we should potentially bring to the site and present to you all. Yeah, I want to be clear. This is Amherst, we're trusting you until we don't. Alex. Do we know by chance if of the myriad of buildings between the college campuses that if there are any buildings that we can look at that say have the Norman brick or that are a full pallet or a warm pallet just to give something actually to look at rather than on a screen? I don't know about the Norman brick. That's a good question. So just for your own sake, your regular brick is about two and a quarter inches high by about eight inches long. A Norman brick is about two and a quarter inches high by 12 inches long. So it's the same vertical height, but they're longer in there. It's just it's a slightly different look than than the, you know, that your standard brick. I don't know. We can do some checking. See if we can figure that out. And one question. I just, I think I know the answer to this. Does any of this putting aside the hardy board conversation affect the cost of the project? Cool, warm, and if it's all going to be roughly the same price. Right. The colors will not affect. Great. If in work, because what we're staying is in their standard line of selections with brick, there's it just in our office, we probably have 36 different colors to choose from. So it's limitless essentially in brick. And that's all, you know, standard colors. Okay. And based in your experience over time, one or another, these patterns, color patterns stand up better or they stand up equally the same way. It doesn't matter if it's cool or warm. It doesn't matter. Brick is brick. Brick is brick. Christine. Yeah, back to the hardy board and I'm good with hardy board, but I know we were kind of swapping that out for metal. I don't remember how much of a savings because there's not that much being used. Is it really that great of a savings? And is it money? Why we're switching to hardy board? Cost as a matter is pegged to that $150,000 to swap out half of the aris craft, the metal with lower end material, more cost effective material. So it is a good chunk of change. That is. Thank you. Okay, back to you, Josephine. Excuse me, Alex. One more quick question. So while we're, you know, deferring to you as architects and theory, I guess I have just one add on to that and is that obviously our building is downtown in the context of, you know, the strong house on one side and the old bank on the other and Amherst, so I don't know, even though the front of the building is facing, you know, the existing is facing a lot of that, I guess, just in the context of the other buildings that are surrounding us. I don't know if one pallet lends itself to the, to the surrounding buildings, but just a thought. Great. Okay, back to you, Josephine. Thank you. So that brings, I think, to the end of the colors. And we can move, if no one has any further questions, we can move on to the renderings. Okay, just to be clear, are we all good so far on the color ballots ready to go to renderings? Okay, thank you. So we have eight renderings that we're going to review with you tonight, all of which we have reviewed last week, but we sort of consolidated down to the eight that we think from what you've heard and from what we have looked at are probably the most effective. So we have three at the exterior that I think these were all approved last week. Moving on to the first floor, we have three at level one. We still have the view in the children's area. We did talk about potentially shifting this and that could still happen down the road, but one will still remain in the children's wing. We have one in the main lobby, cirque desk area, looking back at the original building. And then we have the one in the double-volted adult fiction space. And then moving to the second floor, we are showing two on level two. One is the redo of the view we've been looking at for several years now, looking at the main space. And then we have one in the original building. So in total, these are the eight renderings that we are proposing. And as Craig mentioned, we will leave this to you to review and internally and decide if you're all okay with these, moving forward with these eight. Great. Sharon? Oh, I don't know if Craig should talk first. Craig is what you have to say more important than what I have to say. Sorry. I doubt it. Okay, then I'll go first. My first question, Josephine, is does the order that you just presented that in by order of your priority or should we give you our order of priority for negotiations in case something needs to get dropped off due to cost? So Craig, do you want to talk about cost before we? Sure. Okay, wait, before you go, Craig. Hang on. So then my only other question has to do with love these eight choices, would you not find anything on the guarded level that would be compelling? You like all of these others better. Thank you. When it comes to cost, I think Tony had mentioned last time the possibility of a lower cost for some of the ones that were reuse of a similar view or the same view. And that has panned out. And so the design team has advised that for these eight, it would be a $13,000 additional service, which is savings over the eight times 2,000, which would be 16,000. So that I think is much appreciated. And just as a reminder, we do have a line item for miscellaneous cost. This would be an appropriate use of that money, in my opinion, of $11,000. So pretty close. So I just want to say something. I defer to Sharon on this. We are going to face a lot of, we are already facing a lot of things where we're adding cost to the project. You know, little nibble here, money for this, money for that. And I don't know, Sharon, I really do think that we don't want to spend more than we really, really need to spend on renderings, which are not going to make the building more energy efficient, not going to make the building stand up, you know, whatever. So I just, I mean, I know that there are things that we want and we think that they'll be useful, you know, but have you really kind of looked at this from the perspective of we're going to spend $13,000 that maybe we could save some of that money? Oh, if the, so I thought we had, what am I trying to say? I don't want to spend additional money. So I thought these eight were going to fit into the bucket of money we already had for this. I think if all eight renderings, if this isn't a completely additional $13,000, I think we need renderings for the Capital Campaign Committee. So I think we're going to have to spend some extra, but if we need to get back down to $11,000, if that means eliminating one of the renderings, then I'm happy to do that. Well, I'm just raising this question again, if we save money on renderings, we can use it elsewhere. And maybe that's the wrong way to think about it. And I don't want to go cheap on renderings if it's going to, because it will, will have an impact in terms of fundraising and the rest. But I just want to raise this general question. And it's a general question, which is a little more here and a little more there. And as we faced a little more here and a little more there, I think it'd be good to kind of keep in mind that we don't want to do a little more here and a little more there unless it's absolutely necessary. And that would be kind of my standard. Like, is this absolutely necessary? Yes, we need renderings. But Ellen's going to help me. One thing I wanted to say, Austin, is that if you feel as though you'd like to reduce the number, we can always do more renderings in two months. This is not like now or never. So if the fundraising guys are saying, oh, somebody really wants to see a rendering of this and they're going to give us a ton of money, we can get that done. So it's not, you know, there's flexibility in that. Great. Great. Great. Christine, can you remind me how many were built into the the estimate? So there are none that are owned in the design team's base contract, but they included $2,000 per rendering as a unit cost. And then what they were able to realize is a slight reduction or actually 50% for the renderings that use the same view. So if you were to take away, say, number seven, at this point, you would reduce the cost, I presume, by $1,000. If you were to take away number eight, you would reduce the cost by $2,000. And Ellen just going to correct me if I've got that wrong. That's correct. And just my follow was, I assume Sharon was talking to the fundraising crew. Was there a final list that they wanted, like they wanted these five or what was that? Yeah. Thank you for asking. So in their priority, the last two in their priority list was your number four, Josephine, on the first floor, looking towards Amity Street. Yeah. So that was their eighth in their order of priority list. And their seventh is your six of the barrel vaulted ceiling, which is kind of interesting because what they really wanted was your number five, but looking from the northwest corner, you had talked about that. So I would keep the barrel vaulted ceiling one, your number six, but get rid of your number four and your number five and only bring back your number five if you can make it later on down the line, somehow combine the new with the old. Did any of that make sense? So I guess right now, what I'm suggesting is you get rid of your five and your four on that level. That's fine. You know what? We're going to do a four because we need it as a rendering. So we're going to do it. You can use it. We think it's we, every library we do, people want to see the lobby. So if you guys can't do it, we're going to want it for our marketing. So we'll do it. They would go, we just save money. Yes. I think we're fine helping out that way because I think it's going to be important for us to design it. And for your, we think your fundraising is going to need it. So we will put in our two cents. So are we to the point where we are now kind of agreed that four and five are going to go away? Four is going to be brought back by FAA. Sharon, are you good with that? Yeah. One more question has to do with the ground floor. Not that I'm looking to add one, but do you, did you guys feel like you couldn't find one on the ground floor? That, Josephine, do you have a first floor ground floor plan? It just, my opinion is there's not a lot of big open space. Yeah. So it's more, more like a vignette. Yeah. Thank you. Yes, I don't have ground open. Okay. Yeah. But I agree. It would be probably more like a vignette showing maybe the lobby space if we were going to add one. That makes sense. So yes, we, we Capital Campaign Committee agrees with, so we're down to seven now with one of them being paid for by Ellen, you rock. And Craig, what does that do our budget in terms of what was the 11,000 figure? So it sounds like we'll be coming in at 9,000. So under budget. So there's 2,000 left over for either another rendering later on or some other miscellaneous expense. Fabulous. All right. Any other questions about the renderings? Okay. So Craig, I think that is it for, for Collier's and find out Alexander. That's fabulous. And I'm going to say again, thank you for the work you're doing. It just, every time it just looks better and better. I'm really, really grateful for your, your patience and the work that you're doing to help us see and imagine with this fantastic renovated expanded Jones Library will look like. I can't wait to touch the brick. What about the Hardy board? I'm not so excited about the Hardy board, but I'll come around. Okay. So subcommittee reports. Madam chair of the design subcommittee. Nothing to report. Thank you. Alex for outreach. Okay. Thank you. No correspondence that I have received. Nothing that I know of that hasn't been anticipated. So now we have public comment. We have six folks in the audience. Thank you all for coming and for your interest. Bob Pam would like to be recognized. Bob, Bob, I'm not hearing you. Bob, could you put something in the chat? If you, you know, we can't, we can't hear you. Trying to move him over to the panelist room to see if that helps. Great. Thank you. There he is. Unmute yourself. That's fabulous. It's very nice to see you. Can't hear you, Bob. Can't hear you. Thank you, Bob. So Bob, I want to get off and get back on the ladder. Put something in the chat. So while Bob is, Bob is doing that. Any other member of the public wish to be recognized? Okay. Bob, are you chatting us? That is completely fabulous. Completely fabulous. Remember, we only have time for novella, not a novel, Bob. Austin, I'm not seeing anything in the chat. He's typing right now. Okay. I think it looks like he's typing. So he hasn't, he hasn't hit enter yet. Maybe you could send it along in pieces, Bob, so we can start diving in. Bob, you got to give us something. Oh, you got to give us something. Or else you can wait till the next meeting. No, can't wait till the next meeting. Ellen and Josephine are going to get stuck in traffic in Boston. Both home, so we don't get stuck in traffic. Ellen, that didn't help. Oh, sorry. Maybe you could just write it and hold the paper up. If I can read lips, I think he was saying that committee was doing a fabulous job and he thanked everybody for their time and just get home early tonight and safely. Yeah. And don't forget that he volunteers to take minutes at the next meeting. Bob, I am going to say that you really need to put something in the chat. I'm reading that. Did I try? You tried? Here we go. Oh my God. Let me pin him. Lighter roof color. Cost estimate at design development. There were question marks after those things. Craig. So for the design development, yes, there will be a full cost estimate at the end of the design development phase, which will be April. I think the cost estimate will be available at the end of May. Thank you. And there's more. How long does Hardy Board live? A long time. I'm hoping. So Ellen had mentioned the design team is going to reach out to the Hardy Boy material retina. Hopefully that's some information they can provide. Great. The one point of data we have is that the consigli building, which is 15 years old, looks 15 years old, but still weather type, I presume. Okay. There you go. God, may I just say for the record, I love Bob Pam. Thank you, Bob. All right. So no other public comment. I think we can adjourn and let Bob go back to his coloring. See you soon. Thank you.