 Do you have any thoughts to offer up on the works of einrand and objectivism? Sure. Yeah, you've talked about this a little bit I know you said we said we were gonna try to work a sit-down with your own brook Yeah, which I think would be fun Yeah, I know your runs been critical of my of my terminology of capitalism where I've said that it's forced altruism because Anytime you say the word altruism in the presence of an objectivist then it's like water on the on the wicked witch of the West They just start melting and it's all crazy But what I mean by forced altruism is the sense that you know if I don't give you something that you want Meaning that there is an externality to me to me living that I have to generate for you in order for me to get something in return So whether you use altruism or not we have the same perspective on on capitalism. I think that on capitalism. There's been very there's very Well, let me just let me just say something right there Before before we continue on this. I like the analogy to me being the wicked witch of the West I guess I behave when he says altruism I behave like the wicked witch of the West would behave if you pour water on her not sure what I make of that, but so be it kind of fun kind of funny but It kind of ridiculous as well There's a reason why we get upset When we took when altruism is raised and the reason is that Ben Shapiro and everybody else use the term Incorrectly they use the term wrong what he is referring to his trade What he is referring to is selling somebody a product and getting something in return What he is referring to is a win-win transaction. There's no altruism there So what is altruism? Well go and read Augustine Comte go and read the guy who came up with the term You're an intellectual. You don't get your terminology. You're right. You're a guy who says Facts don't care about your feelings. I agree with you completely So go check out the facts. What does altruism means? Altruism means living for other people. It means giving up your life and living for the purpose of other people's Satisfaction happiness fulfillment of whatever wishes needs It's the placement of other people's needs above your own life Above your own values above your own wishes. It's not about trading Capitalism is not about altruism and I know he gets this from For the famous economist whose name always slips from our mind that has just done it again see Ben is 31 so nothing slips from his mind in that sense. I am jealous because I Get the brain freezes. He doesn't because he's still young. I think I got the brain freezes when I was his age as well but anyway So what you get here is is a misconception on his part of what altruism means Which is very very dangerous because what is he doing? He's creating a package deal on the altruism He's putting on the altruism one trade trade on the capitalism and to Jesus on the cross real self-sacrifice giving up your Values for other people and getting nothing in return all of that goes lumped in together and then altruism You know it can be anything, right? It can be helping out your neighbor because you like your neighbor, or it could be jumping on the grenade because you know because You're a good sacrifice and you have to be more it could be You know giving up all just giving up a kidney for a stranger because Because their life is more valuable than yours Altruism becomes meaningless the term becomes meaningless. What's the point of having it if it includes all these different things? Same point thing is to know exactly what altruism is well altruism is The placement of the world being of other people above your life Their lives are more important than yours indeed according to altruism your moral purpose in life is The other other people that's why it's other ism altruism So then you're smart but Use terms correctly do a little bit of research If you're gonna criticize I'm Rand Never mind if you know never mind me, but if you're gonna criticize I ran do a little bit of research all right We're gonna continue With Ben's he's gonna now go into capitalism and he's gonna give I ran a compliment Expositors of capitalism who I think are better than I ran as far as her life philosophy and her relationship philosophy I think that's pretty garbage. I don't think objectivism applies in personal relationships Now the way that a lot of objectivists get around the idea that like you're gonna abandon your wife and children because there's a hot check at The bar the because objectivists well, they would say that's not rational self-interest, right? Well, so they'll read they'll redefine the terminology right they'll say that you're not making a sacrifice for your wife and children You've made a decision that it makes you happier to be with your wife and children and the rational person would make that decision That it's better to be with your wife and children a lot of 40 year old men driving Corvettes would disagree Right so this I really don't think that's correct I wonder if they disagree or they just have a moment of stupidity I mean maybe but you know, it's the president's married three times each time to a younger hotter model So it's you know, I think that I have less faith in Human nature than to believe that the reason I stick with my wife and kids is because it always makes me happy There's plenty of times when I'm with a screaming child in the middle of the night When what would best serve my interest is to thrust the child on my wife and go drinking so Right. All right. Well, we'll facilitate that At some point when you guys well, I mean now what's nice here is Ben has agreed to debate me. Hopefully he'll still be willing to do that in the future And or to sit down and discuss it. We don't have to have a formal debate It would be a nice conversation to have but I wish I was there I wish I was there because I'd love to ask Ben Shapiro why he stays with his wife There are a lot of hot chicks out there. Why does he stay with his wife? I guess their answer is because God told him to Because it's a great sacrifice to stay with his wife and sacrifice is good Is that why you should stay with your wife? Because it's good to sacrifice No objectivist has ever claimed That every moment of a relationship is gonna be blissful and orgasmic That they're never gonna be tough times But if you're rationally self-interested and that's not a redefinition of term That's what self-interest means not the momentary if if living if a 50-year-old if life in a Corvette and Sleeping around and being a playboy was really better Then sticking with a wife you love and a family you adore then yeah Then we should all be driving Corvettes or less men at least should be driving Corvettes and having a good time Whoops. I forgot to switch cameras back. See this is the problem But That's The point that it isn't better at least for some of us now if you have a lousy marriage Yes, please get divorced if you don't love your wife, please get divorced, but what would they what would Ben say? No, you can't get divorced if you don't love your wife Stick it out. You got a sacrifice. Why I don't know for the kids. What if the kids out of the house? I don't know because God said so divorce is bad I'd love to ask him about King David and his many wives of King Solomon with his 2,000 wives and mistresses. I wonder how bench Ben's wife would think about that. Anyway, it's just a whole idea of That self-interest means immediate gratification that is just silly from somebody who's who's claims to be an advocate of reason He has you know, think about it Ben Hey, think about it Self-interest happiness is not about instant gratification. It's not about being short-term It's about reason and I ran talks about this over and over and over again She doesn't redefine selfishness. She defines it properly for the first time Because she understands what it means to live a pro human life life not live a Life of Emotionalism not live a life of instant gratification not live a life where if anything's hard you just walk away I mean, have you read Iron Man's books? Dagny faces difficulties all the time and she sticks with them not out of a sense of duty not out of a sense of self Lessness not out of a sense of self sacrifice, but out of a deep deep deep sense of selfishness Dagny is selfish and therefore she sticks with their values and fights for them and overcomes difficult situations You don't not abandon your children Because it's hard You stay with your kids Because there are value to you and for values. I mean if you're an object of this You know that there's nothing more important than your values you fight for them hard You don't sacrifice for them if it's a little value an insignificant value and it's hard you drop it You move on to something else, but if it's a massive value in your life, or it's an obligation that you've taken on yourself like raising your kids you Pursue that value to the fullest to its utmost. You don't just walk away I mean that's absurd and he has to know that that's absurd. There's no way somebody as smart as Ben Who's red I ran doesn't know the absurdity of what he's saying? So he is creating a caricature Because it is a threat to his system indeed. I believe that I ran is the only threat to his system now What I've noticed and I'm gonna take I've got a couple of calls here I'm assuming these new callers are calling about mention pure because otherwise because I've said it so many times but If you think about Anytime it goes very philosophical You know again, Ben is very mixed so I saw him on Sam Harris and Ben has the right View on free will he believes it exists, but he doesn't understand what free will is again He could benefit enormously enormously from I ran because I ran has the right approach for free Well, and if you don't know I ran supposed to free will then listen to my Interview with on car got a from a few weeks ago or a few a couple of months ago on free will it's on blog talk radio And it's on YouTube So please go and listen to it because it's a it's a if anybody interested in the issue of free will it is a must listen to But free will is an incredibly important topic You have to know what you're talking about and the problem is he doesn't he's very very superficial philosophically Because for him free will is something granted by God and there is no one no explanation really for it so when so he comes off when talking to Sam Harris It's just less deep than Sam even though Sam. I think on free will is is is You know what he says is completely wrong and Ben calls him on it because Sam keeps talking about choices and decisions And Ben keeps saying wait a minute. Don't you need free will father then it says no you don't need free will but which is nonsense Of course you do so Sam wants to have his cake and eat it. He wants to have choices He wants people to make decisions. He wants to have reason but not have free will somehow I don't know what the cake is there. He just wants both of those opinions to be in his mind at the same time And that's a whole problem. It's a whole problem with with Sam Harris