 Tonight on Plus Politics, we address the issue of cost of governance in Nigeria and calls for amendments to fit it into the national budget. This is Plus Politics, and I am very happy. Joining us tonight is Tunji Abdullah Mead. He is a legal practitioner. He's also a member of the People's Democratic Party. And also joining us tonight is Dave Atomatele. He's a public affairs analyst. I hope I didn't murder you there. Good evening, gentlemen. Thank you so much for joining us. It's always a tough system for me. Thank you for having me. Great. Let's start with you, Tunji. As a member of the opposition party, looking at the issue of cost of governance, many Nigerians will, best and foremost, blame the People's Democratic Party. Who has helped, who have helped sway in governance for 16 plus years? And many would say have led the way or the path of a very strong boy and political lifestyle that many have decided that they all want to be career politicians because of what they've seen or how they've seen politicians grow from nobody to very rich men when they leave offices. Should people in the PDP have anything to say about the cost of governance being there via the trailblazers of making money or money politics in the first instance? Mary, I think if you're talking about PDP here, we are not being sincere to ourselves because if you look at APC, look at NMPP, look at PDP, they are almost all of them have either been PDP or the other party. And they've all been part of the system. So nobody, you don't talk about the party here. Let's talk about the people in Nigeria. Because if you are talking about PDP, we are going to be limiting our scope of discussion because you can't tell me that 80% of those who are in APC today have not been PDP before. So the cost of governance is a serious issue that we need to tackle. And it's one of our problems in this country. People in government have seen government as their own personal life, just to improve their own personal life instead of service. So people are not saving people. I want to say that look, it's a sad reality that we need to look at the cost of governance. If we reduce the cost of governance, some of the things we are complaining of today may not be there. We are complaining about the subsidy, we are complaining about other things, we are complaining about lack of money for education, lack of money for AIDS, lack of money for this and that. But those in government are not complaining because their salary is increasing every time, their allowance is increasing every time. Look at the National Assembly, they take like 30, 40 million a month to look at the ministers. They have so many comforts, so many cars and importers. So in fact in the year you buy about 1 trillion cars for those in the political offices and yet we complain about lack of money. So I think to me it's a sad reality that we are spending that money in governance. Governance is not about spending money alone, it's about spending money for the buses, not for the people in government. But in our own reality here, the money is being spent for people in government. They just receive it as their own personal money and they can do whatever they want to do with it. So for me I think I agree with you, it's a serious issue and we need to look into it. Let me come to you now more than ever, every single person thinks that pressure must be pushed, which are not just governments at the centre but governments across the board, whether it be a council or a local government chair and state governments, houses and assemblies, et cetera, et cetera. Knowing that subsidy has been removed and the cost of leaving it is skyrocketing, the pressure that Nigerians have had to go through in this case almost a week. Should we only be paying leave service to it as we have always done or sometimes it doesn't all have a political campaign as opposed to pushing for the reduction of cost of governance? Cost of governance starts when I say I want to run for a position. It costs money to run for the position. The party does not fund you in running. You fund yourself. Maybe if you're very lucky your constituents might give you some money or whatever. Basically it's funding itself funded and nobody spends money to put it down the drain into a big hole, a black hole. So you go there and the first thing you do is how do I recoup? So the cost of governance starts with the fundamental rot that is inside the procedure that creates the people that go there with the mindset that I cannot leave this place poorer than I got in. My people wouldn't even expect me to leave poorer than I got in because they expect some sort of lagesse to come from me. That is now given into the form of constituency projects, whether it's a borehole or whether it's a road or whatever. So the whole system is geared towards lagesse. And until we fundamentally change that system, there is no reduction in cost of governance. It's a mythical unicorn. You cannot say I'm supposed to spend this money and then when I get there I'm going to come out poorer. Nobody does that. In fact, what you'll find is that nobody wants to run. It's interesting. I always ask when everybody says, or when people talk with the idea of, oh, well, it's costly, it's expensive, and people are part of the reason why politicians steal. But you'll both have that idea that they have to be lagesse one way or the other because if you are given constituency projects you're supposed to deliver and give a camp. But that doesn't happen half the time. So somebody must have introduced money politics or people waking up in the morning and lining up in front of a politician's house to beg for money. Somebody must have said that, for example, right? That's quite correct. The problem is the disconnect between the party and the person running for the particular office. I've done politics on three continents now. And in most other places the part of the person is sponsored by the party. Here the party wants you to sponsor them. The candidate that needs to sponsor the part is the complete opposite way around. In other places, in other climes, even in places like Kenya, the party sponsors their candidate as far as they can go. And you do it at local level, national level, and everything is sponsored along that line. But when you're asking an individual to fund that particular process, you cannot ask him to give that money away. This is money that would be generational wealth for his family. This is generational wealth for his community. And you've asked him to give it away and they should now come out poorer. The whole process is upside down. So when you now say cost of governance, well, the cost of governance is maintaining this particular system. So unless it stops, you cannot prune branches and believe that they're not going to grow back. They need to uproot the whole system. Yeah. Let me come back to you. At the beginning of the Bahá'í administration, there was something that seemed like a move in the right direction. The mayor of Nigeria supported the fact that the president and the vice president promised that they were going to comp their salaries in two. They promised that they were going to make sure that they reduced the cost of governance. But that seemed like window dressing. But fast forward from then till now, I said anything whatsoever. So did that question for you? I think you're muted. Okay. Can you repeat yourself? Yeah. So I'm saying that at the beginning of the Bahá'í administration, there seemed to be a move by the president and the vice president to flash their salaries, their earnings by 50%. And they said they were trying to lead by example. But fast forward that to now. I mean, they have obviously left office today. Can we say that they really lived up to expectations in terms of costing the cost of governance or was just that some sort of window dressing to make the president and his vice look good? I think that you can say that they only made attempts. That's what they did. They took an attempt for them to say, look, we want to do this. It's not like window dressing. That's what I'm concerned. And if we talk about the cost of governance, the salary is not what the issue was talking about here. 50% of the salary is nothing. What we're talking about is allowances. Allowances in the area where things are, where the local is. You know, when you travel abroad as a president or you travel between Nigeria, you collect allowances and all those things. Those are not being reduced. They still collect and they still do all that. So they buy things that are not necessary. In other countries, the president don't even, they don't even feed the president. He pays for his feeding and so on. But in Nigeria, you collect millions of dollars for a president and a deputy and a worker and his family. And there's no reduction in it. In fact, it increases every year. It was increasing every year. So as far as I'm concerned, there was no attempt in that regard. They only made just a paper policy as far as I'm concerned. They just made a statement on paper for record purposes. And then in action, there was nothing done in that regard because I am aware. Nobody can even tell me the amount of money spent by a president abroad for medical. Nobody can tell us what the amount, the amount budgeted for their feeding and other things like that. So as far as I'm concerned, there was no serious attempt in that regard. What they did was just a paper policy and there was no implementation towards that application of that policy as far as I'm concerned. So reduction of 50% of salary will not go anywhere because salary is nothing to write about. It's not the issue we're talking about here. Because when we have these conversations, it's not enough for us to put out the facts and say these are the problems. Let's talk solutions. Before we even begin to say we want to cut the cost of the problem, we need to obviously find out what the root cause of this bloated budgets and monies that we have are located to different spheres of government. Where do we even start? Because you talk about accountability, we're lacking in that regard. Just a few days after a handover, there's a series of probes, EFCCs going after a lot of people, asking questions. Even before the end of the Ohio administration, there were so many question marks that I get to get answers. So where do we start to deal with this before we say finally government at all levels are going to cut the cost of governance? My apologies for that. The problem in government is oversight. When the government was originally designed, all these special advisors and so they were supposed to give oversight from the presidency into ministries. They've now turned it into a government of their own. We don't have oversight in our institutions. And as a consequence, people become they become fiefdoms. And people are very, very wanting to own a fiefdom. I mean, what does it mean to say I want a juicy ministry? The wording alone makes you understand that they understand what the issues are. We need to get to a situation whereby there is a lot more oversight as to what we're spending on. I mean, we have an activist CBN governor that spent several trillion Naira off budget and we have no KPIs for that. I mean, how do we do something like that? I mean, because it's inside it's written into a law. So where was the oversight on the CBN governor when he was spending this money that has no tangible results? It all comes down to oversight. Once somebody is told, wait a minute, why are you doing this? Where are the results? Where are the plans? Where are all of those things? Then all of a sudden people take a step back and they say, oh, maybe we're not going to spend this money like we've been spending before. The same thing happens when budgets are given and you don't spend all the money coming up to Christmas. Somebody says, oh, a whole bunch of ghost projects suddenly appear because if we don't spend this money this year, they're not going to give us money next year. So there's a whole bunch of oversight functions that are failing throughout government, local government, state government, federal government. And if these oversight functions were put back, we have at least a chance to cut back, cut back across the board objectively. What are the jobs of Tunji? What are the jobs of the auditor generals and the accountant generals and all of the administration departments and agencies that are responsible for accountability that never really, again, put also the immediate past auditor general. I think he still is the auditor general as we speak who had found a lot of lapses in, you know, the records that had come through his office. He raised alarms, but nothing has necessarily been done again. So should we be looking at will power here to deal with the issue? Because again the Bahá'í administration is one of those administrations that was built on the wings of fighting corruption, having zero tolerance for corruption. But here we are at the end of his government in the beginning of another administration. We're still yet to deal with the issue of corruption. So is it political will or are we the people part of the major problems that these politicians have? Yeah, it is a political will and lack of sincerity and lack of love for the country. That's why we are having those kind of restrictions. And just like he said, we don't have an oversight function but it's not been carried out by people who are supposed to carry them out. They are always collaborating. People who are supposed to do oversight of Bahá'í, they work and in hand. And that is why you see a president who wants to come in who wants to listen to Assembly President that will align with whatever he wants to do. And that's why you see them fighting over who becomes the President and he must be supported by the president or he must be President who will nominate who becomes the President. The National Assembly is to perform oversight function over the secretary. They are supposed to check the secretary. And that secretary will be the one to appoint that person that will do oversight on him or that will check his essences. It won't happen. So until we have the political will to do things that will align with the law and align with the interests of the nation, we may not be able to get it right. Corruption. We could say until we have the political will, why are you a politician and you have no will? What is the I'm looking for the best way to the best word to describe. What is the thing that pushes you? What is the help me? What makes you want to be a politician? I'm guessing that it should be for service. But if service is not part of the plan, then what will are we ever going to find to make you do the right thing? I agree with you. It should be for service. What we have seen today, people have been there for their own personal gains and that's why you see issue and most times there are sentiments. Ethnic sentiment, legal sentiment and political sentiment. You see in our country political interest bigger than national interest. As far as we are concerned, political interest is number one. And that's why you see people talking about it must be parties. This is what the party is looking for. Whether it is in the nation or not, once the party is looking for it, they must go with them. What we have seen today is that people are there just for their own personal gains and that's why we are unfortunately again, there are people without people in power who are not even police people for committing a crime or corruption or we don't have transparency. We are talking about subsidy just because of nothing. As far as I'm concerned, subsidy is not a problem. Our problem is corruption. Did you say subsidies do not have to pay these excessive amounts of money trying to help us even though it's killing us? You'd rather that we continue to pay subsidies instead of removing it? It's not cleaners. We are learning to kill us. You say subsidy is cleaners because the excuse is that look, three people are taking our money and they are not using it for our benefits. Is that not what they are saying? Who are these three people? Are they bigger than the country? Can they be punished? If that money is an individual money by a president or a person in power and he gives it to myself for instance, go and do this for me and I didn't do it. Will you be looking at me? Will you find a way around this and say let's go and do, let's go and carry on. If you say that subsidy is not a problem, what is that problem? If we are able to find the corruption and lack of accountability and transparency in that subsidy, we will get it right. Subsidy will be beneficial to all of us because we are not getting benefit from it as fees because there is corruption in needs. There is lack of transparency in needs. There is lack of accountability in needs. You cannot tell me that the figure they are giving us is the figure we are spending because you don't know the number of people who are being sold. We are being sold outside the country. We are not passing through our road. If we are able to find the corruption inside it, we will be able to get it right. What we are doing is to call the edge because we are having headache. What is the guarantee that the money that will be saved from this subsidy will be used for the money that was raised? When the fare was increased from 97 or so, or it is something to 145, what we are told that the money that will crew from the excess will be used to develop our education, to develop our edge, to develop our road. Today, as I have been done, where is the money? Who are taking the money? The question is, did we accrue any money in all of those years? Let me talk to you. The concept of the subsidy is a complete red herring. Why do I say so? What would we be doing if we didn't have a drop of oil? What would we be doing if we didn't have a drop of oil? Would we all fall to the ground and die? What would we do if all the oil wells were suddenly tainted and we couldn't produce oil? The problem is that the oil, not the subsidy on the oil, people around us, all across the West African coast, are paying roughly 700 naira per litre. Are we saying that because we were God-given that we're suddenly snowflakes in hell? Of course we're not. We're lazy. We're lazy because of the oil. If the oil was taken away we would have to find different ways to generate revenue. Whether there's a subsidy or you don't call it a subsidy it's something that is icing on top of the cake. We should treat it that way because if we treat it that way we become competitive worldwide. We produce things that are costing worldwide. We try to sell things abroad that are sellable and we have this subsidy or no subsidy. Why we even have the oil? We're all beholden to it. We only talk about oil. I mean that has to be madness. There are 194 countries in the world. How many of them have oil? Do they all suddenly die every year and come back and be resurrected or what? The oil is the problem. There is no problem with the subsidy. We should pay world prices and profit into building infrastructure. You see this is a question that Trudy is asking. Where is the money? Just as you said we're blessed with the oil. We're also a country that's blessed with several other things. Unfortunately, like you have said we don't pay attention to those things. We only pay lip service and do photo ops with people in those sectors and then we leave our mainstay. If we didn't have oil tomorrow and everything is dried up would we not turn to something else? Do we have to wait for the oil to dry up for us to start thinking in other directions? The presidency came up with some rice idea and I'm still wondering what's the rice? Where is it? The borders were shut and all of these things still didn't change. The Bahrain regime did not come up with a rice idea. The Bahrain regime came up with an idea to quell insurrection in the north. We spent one point something trillionaire making sure that people were not unemployed because the unemployed people were going over to Boko Haram. If we really wanted to do rice production we would not do it as a substance level. We would do it as a mechanized level. So what we would really do was placating. We spent one point something trillionaire placating in what we call palliatives in keeping people busy so that while we were trying to build other things around them so that they would not be unemployed and say all western education is bad and therefore I'm going to Boko Haram. That's what we did for eight years and that's why you can't see a significant difference in food production. Nobody does. Nobody spends that sort of money these days doing subsistence farming. If you wanted to really bring the country forward and compete with the competitors in those other 194 countries you would be doing mechanized farming. But mechanized farming doesn't work in the north because the farmers don't have the education to use the tractors and all the mechanized things. It's only people like Dengote and Ko that are able to do that mechanized farming at that level. So what we were really doing was subsidizing the putting palliatives in place for people who otherwise would have nothing to do. And I don't think it was a very good use of money. We should have been using them to educate them to do to put into getting to other businesses other things because now we're still back at the same point are we going to continue giving palliatives so that they don't have that so they're not even unemployed or what are we going to do? Great question. I spoke to a spokesperson of the newly sworn in Kanoos State Governor who is obviously a member of the New Nigeria People's Party first NNPP governor that Kanoos State has had and one of the things that he raised, the issues he raised was the fact that there's a lot of drug abuse in Kanoos State and several other environments and that is also as a result of the fact that these young people are idle. So let me toss to you we have a very useful population, something that the likes of the United Kingdom can boast of and it's supposed to be a blessing for us but it's more of a curse for us and for all of the campaigns that we heard in the past months before inauguration everybody was saying they're going to do something for use of employment, under employment etc etc and looking at the statistics of unemployment and under-employment we have more under-employment and it's continued to rise and it's young people that it's mostly affecting and just as I said there's so many aspects of economy that needs to be explored but we're yet to explore it how can our young people benefit from the vast I'm looking at the blessings that Mother Nature had given this country and how can governments help for these people to explore and probably build these aspects of our economy other than oil and gas and of course the breaking of pipelines Mary Han we cannot be doing the same in the same way and expect different results. We have not been doing anything different from what we have been doing before and we can't see different results in that regard because we are not creating anything we are not creating at all nothing is being created as little as matches and even as a topic so if you are not producing you are not doing anything there's no way you can create jobs the government is not thinking outside the box we are just looking at what is on the ground to me oil is not a cost it's not a cost for us there are countries that don't have oil and their country is better today they are doing well because it's been managed for the benefit of all of them but in our own case and they want to use it on their own for their own personal benefit and that's been our problem if you think outside the box do think the different way from what we are doing now we are just consuming we are not producing, we are not doing anything we are not manufacturing anything and you expect any employment to come up nothing will come up until we have production we have manufacturing in Nigeria the way we have it in the LECC or so we won't get any employment anyway because how do we get employment when they are not working even in the area where we need people in terms of security we are not engaging people are not there we are not complaining every time and we don't have the numbers we are not doing anything so we need to think those government need to think outside the box they need to think to production and malfunctioning attitude until we start doing that with what's it called enough employment even 50% employment for our youth and again let me just go back to the subsidies we were talking about because people often talk about other countries where they sell oil at both the fair price at both 1700 or whatever in those countries I want to ask the question do they provide security for themselves do they provide life for themselves don't they have affordable education in Nigeria we don't have all those things the only thing we seem to benefit is this subsidy I so called because even though they may be subsidy may exceed I don't know the number of crude we are producing every day I don't know what we are producing what we have been told that we are spending 3 million on the subsidy that's what we are hearing we can't we can't if we are not doing that if we continue this way if we have 10 sources of income and we are behaving the way we are behaving nothing will change because until we change we will not we won't add that our people not me not people people people that's when we are going to get it right well adi and tundi we will take a quick break when we come back we will be looking hard to the city administration and how much will power it might have going forward and how it might be ready to deal with the issue of cost of governance is this going to be a very high end government or we are going to see a lot of heads rolling because of corruption as we move to the city administration it's been a week now since the president took to power one of the first things that he said was that subsidy is gone and we have seen the rippling effect of that statement that single statement he made also seeing him give orders to the EFCC and he's also said that the NNPC has to probe oil fees and all of the people who have one way or the other been leading the oil and gas sector and we've seen the president's common goal and talked off on these issues and yet nothing came out of it at the end of last year the NNPC had zero amount of money in the national coffers now they could say that's because the NNPC has become a limited viability company et cetera et cetera but how serious do you think the body language of president is in fighting the corruption that is in the oil and gas sector one of the characteristics that we've noticed about Volantinobu as he has come along is that he hasn't got any deputies he has an awful lot of people that he can rely upon but he doesn't have any deputies his word is the will of the party in Lagos state there wasn't a Volantinobu deputy who you could run to and say go and talk to the other guy and can we negotiate and I don't think that giving him is going to give him less of a resolve I think that once he makes up his mind he surrounds himself with people who will execute that job and he just gets on with it irrespective of whether you complain about it or not the executive power at the presidency level is an enormous thing and I think he understands the power that he has and he understands that like he said I'm going to remove the subsidy you can protest but it's not going to change my mind I think he said that before he got there before he had the power now he has the power what we're asking ourselves is is he going to water himself down I don't think so I think this is a man that has suddenly decided that he has a second chance at building his legacy however he got there not many men at the age of 70 or above get a second chance to rewrite their own history and I think he's very confident of that point and I think he wants to go down saying that he was the best president he may not have been the best person to get there but having got there he is the best president and I wrote a piece on LinkedIn that will say that I think that turned gamekeeper and I was going to surprise a lot of people in that he's going to do things that will surprise the people who he rose up with for example he's gone to the senate today and says that he wants 20 advisors that's why we haven't had the advisors everybody's wondering why hasn't he appointed anybody well he's following the rule of law this isn't something that we might have expected we might have expected doing special advisors willy-nilly but he got a ruling from the senate today that 20 special advisors could be done so I would imagine that in the next 24 hours we'll get names of 20 advisors I think he really does want to rewrite his own history and that he's going to take that opportunity to move Nigeria forward and say that I was different many people would say that would question the elections that threw up even though the tribunal is still sitting on this matter but he is president and just like Adi has said he's swung into action, he's hit the ground running but the issue of corruption is going to continuously be with us if something is not done and I ask you just as I act Adi, is he the man for the job? I have a doubt as to whether or not we'll be able to fight corruption the way we are looking at it because he has a lot of allegation of corruption against him and he has a lot of people around him that have been alleged of corruption there are so many of them even the president he's facing allegation of corruption with the FCC there are so many of them those who are almost all of the people around him are facing one corruption or the other so if you are people around you are facing corruption, how do you fight it? how do you fight other people outside surrounded by people who have one issue or the other in terms of corruption with you, they are working for you they are for your family, they are your friends they are your this and that, how do you now fight it? it will be difficult for you to fight it again bear in mind that look for me, I told you that I know he's a politician and he's all interested about capturing the power which he has captured now for now and he's still interested in capturing the power or retaining the power he's thinking of 2027 and I'll tell you, all the problems that we'll be making now will be just towards achieving that aim because most people that will be part of this government will either be former governor, former minister former senator or people who occupy one position or the other will be the ones but does that not have a plus being that these people have been in government before so maybe it'll be easier as opposed to having no offices what I'm driving at is that look what are the people that have been in government this country 80% of them are facing one allegation of the other in terms of corruption and that's my point so if you are making people who are who we see as people brought us to where we are and to come and roll your government what do you expect? I'm not going to expect too much if I see development I'll be okay and I know as far as you government will be far, far better than that of the former president what's it called you can see the way we can see the way he undoed the NSE and the TUC that proposed a strike if you want to be president former president maybe tomorrow the strike will have comments because it may not even say anything we'll just be looking at them you can see the way he undoed it so he has that character he has to see in terms of fighting corruption I'm worried with all sense of responsibility is that look that he will achieve that result is that he is surrounded by people who are facing one allegation of corruption and there is no way you can be surrounded with those kind of people and you want to fight corruption successfully because when you throw stone outside it will eat your people around you except he won't have that political way to be able to deal with people around you and the way I see it if you want to deal with people around you in fact one of the reasons why even if you are proposing to be president I would have loved to have it because he is having an allegation of corruption I would not take him he is taking him and supporting him so he shows that look people who have corruption allegation may even be part of his assistance I know as a lawyer that allegation is not the same thing as what's it called it shows that there is an allegation against you it shows that you are not clean enough go and clear yourself of that allegation and come back and I will take him that's what I expect I was thinking he will do but at last he is supporting the man who is facing the AFCC the invitation of the time Sunji I just want to ask the question that I asked a politician over the weekend because everybody says you need to pass people I think we are talking about the leadership of the National Assembly and the same issue of corruption and I asked how many what's the percentage of migrant politicians just as you said that are not necessarily corrupt because if we have a corrupt system then we have corrupt politicians and corrupt leaders can corruption really fight corruption it's going to be difficult for you to see when you talk about the generalizations I'm not going to say that people who have had a position in our country are all corrupt but you see the way our system is structured just like Mr Adé that for you to contest election in this country you need money you must spend money so when most of them spend this money they want to recruit their money because when you are contesting elections they have run through it when you are contesting elections people who you want to serve see it as they are doing you pay for and you must pay them money for that people when they see it so you must pay money so you are buying your way to get there so when most of them get there they want to recruit they are all corrupt that doesn't mean because most of them even without taking money that belongs to the country they allow us to know it's enough for them to survive but that may not also be enough because every day you see people in your house even as I'm sitting here today I know the number of whatever I've seen even though I'm not even as an assembly or as an assembly or anyway so it's difficult for you as a politician in this country not to be tempted to be corrupt because people we even force to go into that except we have a system that will check us you know when we have a system in place that will make sure you with this corruption what would you do is to put a system in place that will not allow corruption to even take place at all fighting it will be difficult what we need to do it's not happening what happens is that's if you can fight it back to you Adey before we wrap things up here Nigerians base a lot of things on body language when it comes to talking about fighting insecurity we say looking at the president's body language fighting corruptions the president's body language we look at body language a lot but then the personality of the president like I said when president's mom and brother came in he topped off a lot of people caught cold when he sneezed back in the day but that was just at the beginning he didn't hold till the end so let's give the new president a hundred days in office what do we see happening in those few days especially in terms of his willpower to cross things to you know working for example lastly the issue of the oil supply because that's a it's a whole kettle of fish but looking at the government keeping ground running as soon as possible do we wait for a hundred days to begin to decide if he is going to be up to the task or should we start now while it's early in the day I think that Balach Nobu has a plan you don't you don't sort of plan for 26 years and get to somewhere and not have a plan and if you know much about him you'll know that the politics is the only thing he does 24-7 every day I believe he has a plan and I believe that he's just trying to find people that can execute that plan knowing that he can't do it on his own and so I have confidence that something will be done whether what is done is the right thing is a completely different question only he knows his plan because he hasn't told us his plan apart from the Abaddo army and a lot of memes like that those are not real things that are going to take the country forward but you do not plan for 26 years to get to a seat and not have an idea of what you would do when you got there and I think that over the next week or two those plans are suddenly going to get rolled out my only fear is this does he have a plan for everyone does he have a plan for the north does he have a plan for the east it would be obvious that he might have a plan for the southwest but he does have a plan for the south south and if he doesn't have these plans who are going to bring these plans to him that are going to be able to be executed in a way that doesn't become just another jamboree he can take you once you've got your own plans you know how to keep them in rain when you're taking on board other people's plans you may not have that same sort of control over it and so far he has not elucidated to anybody what the plan for the north east is what the plan for the south south or the east is and that is my worry I have no doubt whatsoever that he would have a definite plan for the southwest but we need plans for Nigeria not just geographical regions well I want to say thank you Adé I told what tell it thank you so much for speaking with us I will get used to being able to pronounce this thing just like that thank you so much for being part of the conversation we appreciate it thank you for having me alright thank you all and that's the show tonight don't forget to follow all our programs on past TV Africa on YouTube like, subscribe and follow our previous episodes that way you can play catch up I am Mary Annakum, thank you for watching have a good evening