 Good afternoon and welcome to the United States Institute of Peace. I want to thank you all for your patience As we're starting a little bit late, but you're in for a very interesting conversation So thank you for joining us here today My name is the manas Ali kathina and I direct our South Asia programs here at US IP And we have a particular treat today where we will be instead of talking about the geopolitics and you know Who said what today? Today we're going to use the lens of art to explore conflicts and challenges in South Asia And I'm very honored to have on stage with me here today Some very interesting and very important people in the field of conflict resolution We have Dr. Akbar Ahmad who is the author of the poem or the play that we will be discussing today Gandhi and Jinnah return home a play in three acts and Manjula Kumar who is Directing the play and we have three of the actors who will be playing critical roles in the play and I will introduce everybody They have a storied background So I do want to share with you who's on stage, but before we get into it I want to talk about why are we talking about a play today here at US IP Gandhi and Jinnah return home is a play That offers new insights into the lives and legacies of two of the most important figures in modern South Asian history It examines these historical figures But it also takes historical fact and mixes it with creative imagination And as we look at South Asia A region that's riddled with various conflicts and more than a fourth of the world's population There are many many different attempts at peace The post-colonial conflict that really continues to plague the subcontinent is the one between nuclear armed states of India and Pakistan And while we may not see much in the way of progress Among diplomats or generals for that matter the citizens of India and Pakistan and the diasporas of these two countries have found a multitude of ways to connect with one another And this play Gandhi and Jinnah return home follows in that rich South Asian tradition of using plays poetry and stories to both critique and comment on social issues and and conflict Gandhi and Jinnah return home and a play in three acts will open live at american university for audiences this weekend We hope you go check it out And I will turn now to each of my panelists with some opening questions to better understand the play and for To see why is it that we are looking to art to try to resolve some of the most pressing issues and conflicts in South Asia We will also have a chance to take questions from the audience. So I thank you all for joining us here today I want to start of course with dr. Ahmad. Congratulations on this Impactful new work. It is it is quite an achievement. You have written many plays For all of you you you know ambassador Dr. Ahmad is a distinguished professor with the ibn kaldun chair of islamic studies at american university And a wilson center global fellow in washington dc He was pakistan's high commissioner to the uk and ireland and his career has included distinguished posts in both academia and public service He's won the star of pakistan award the inaugural gandhi peace award and along with professor judaea pearl The inaugural purpose prize, but he has also published. I think this is your third play Third play and third time. I think we're going to turn to manjulah as well. But I want to start dr. Ahmad The premise of this play is that the founders of modern india and pakistan mahatma gandhi mahamad Allegena these larger than life characters Personalities they come back to visit india and pakistan 75 years later, right? We use our imagination to see what it would be like if they visit now And they find a host of problems in both countries And they also work through their own personal issues in your play The play is an interesting blend of historical fact and creative imagination I want to start off what inspired you to write this play now And what message do you seek to convey with your commentary via the play? Thank you. Thank you. The one up first of all for Hosting us and organizing this and for that excellent introduction the answer to your question is As a south asian as a south asian who loves the culture the history of south asia And by which I include all of south asia in those muslims seeks very very rich culture I was dismayed to see some of the trends where divisions are being created and so much misunderstanding exists And I felt that somehow the two figures who more than anyone else represent the essential Soul of one nation jinnah for pakistan gandhi for india muhatma gandhi kaide asam If somehow these two symbolically could meet In a play in a poem in something I could write that would make my little contribution to this situation Now, you know the playwright the poet The one that has Some auto in ego and believes and maybe maybe what they do will have some impact somewhere So then I talked to my Dear friend manjula kumar who's also a guru of mine and a sister of mine We've done three plays together and I said manjula. Is it possible to stage this? And then the challenge was how do you stage it because an author writes something on paper But then it's up to the cast the writers the director to give life to those characters And I must say I'm very very moved very moved and in fact overwhelmed to see what they've done with the play So my purpose was solved that is to put forward a plea a pleading For peace because I'm a grandfather. I have children. I have grandchildren And I want to see them living in peace and enjoying the richness of that culture which is south asia And not seeing it heading straight into a cul-de-sac. Maybe I'm It's a mistake, but that's how I see it and I believe in my entire service I've always believed in doing something being act an activist and I to me This was the way I could best express my emotions through this play and finally. I also felt that Historically if you could raise this what if question the counterfactual question and history What if matwa Gandhi had not been shot? What if mr. Jinnah had lived another couple of years? How would history have been very different? It's a question worth pondering And finally, of course the fact that Unfortunately in india Mr. Jinnah is portrayed very often distorted in a way that you can't recognize him And in pakistan is the other way around for matwa Gandhi and that really saddens me because as you said these are giants Giants must be put in proper perspective. We must take pride in them and we must own them. They belong to all of us so these were some of the Very ambitious aims for the project and I can now only pass it on to manjula because she has to carry the ball and run with it Thank you I'm going to turn to you manjula next manjula kumar is well known in the dc community She's an educator director actor activist with a strong belief in the arts as a vehicle for advocating social change And promoting peace and harmony in the world and through her numerous productions She's worked tirelessly to build bridges of cross cultural understanding between diverse communities She's worked for over 30 years at the smithsonian institution and produced a variety of programs To express her unique desire to foster cultural cohesion manjula. I'm very excited. She's both producing and directing This play Well break a leg. Yes You write about this play. Dr. Ahmed conveys his strong belief in interfaith practices Through his message of peace and hope as the director of this masterpiece play My endeavor is to educate and lighten and engage a multicultural Multireligious multilingual intergenerational audience. So I mean that's quite Abroad and I think lofty ambition. I'd like to hear your Journey with the play. How has it been bringing it to stage and then how do you think this will impact both? communities in south asia but diaspora communities who Maybe not so clear on this history and are seeing some of these characters for the first time right Thank you. Tamanna And thank you to us ip. I can't believe I'm actually here I've attended many programs and as we were driving and coming in I said this is the Ideal place to do this kind of a discussion coming off of the play And I just want to start with what came to mind this morning Mahatma Gandhi's quote, which is very appropriate. Hey here Peace is the most powerful weapon of mankind So weapon and peace. I'm absolutely thrilled As far as the play I first read the play Three years ago Then we had to deal with covet and then some personal problems But anybody who's come to rehearsals or heard about this production We could not have timed it better To promote and spread the message of peace. What are we facing right now from morning to evening? What are we looking at? So it had to be done the spreading of the message of peace is forever and ever The timing of it, but also the challenges So here we are The moment you mentioned the title Gandhi and Jinnah return home. Oh really? What's it about? So the two names? So I go around saying oh the Two iconic men in my life, but there's a third one here also But there's another one Churchill, you know who's over here So while we start from the historical perspective of partition taking it, you know to Modern day and a future. So we're talking in past present and the future So at times when we've mentioned about Gandhi and oh so many films have been made on Gandhi So many books have been written plays I've myself done a couple of plays, but The uniqueness of this play Is that it starts starts from a historical background and then we visit Karachi and Gujarat in India, but there's this promise of hope Which is so important then when you talk about enlighten educate. That's what I'm talking about We have Akbar Ahmed's grandson here somewhere. Isn't that right? Alexander So this I mean hey Where else can we start the first and most important aspect of doing this play Is starting from all of us. We need to revisit. We need to become more I have learned so much in these past years of I thought I knew some of the things, but it's bringing awareness more sensitivity And more, you know, but the challenges, you know Here I had the script on paper But to take it on to the stage is A challenge, but very exciting and I'm thrilled to have An exceptional cast that's working round the clock in now so One important thing of the play is it's totally original. We have an original script We're trying to put everything the collage that you do see over there is done by our Artistic director the music you were listening to has been composed by One of our cast members so everything the costuming the music the artwork so that itself has been very creative very exciting and Gandhiji's message Unity in diversity. So in our cast We have christians seek Hindus muslims and jewish And here we are in Washington DC All coming together all chiming in learning. We're learning so much the person who's playing churchill Has been reading and looking up the crown and you know getting his british accent so a lot of work a lot of challenge and Education I think to me as an arts activist Education is the most important. That's what I've been doing. I think all my life But it's education about the arts and through the arts and that's what I feel drama, you know brings all the elements together of poetry and Music and literature all of it to convey in this case A very important message and that message we all keep hearing, you know of peace and harmony but today More than anything else and again wide drama We may get up in the morning and look at those horrendous Ah things from Palestine or before it was but it's alone, right? We may go to bear it now I'd look in these images and get terribly disturbed But what the greeks quite very appropriately shared with us Is catharsis You know we they practiced it then we really need it today And drama and just as that we are in a conversation today Is therapy Is an exchange so you're not sitting in isolation reading a newspaper watching the news We are all together and it's an experiential Thing that I think is most important especially in this play. Thank you so much manjulah. That's very inspiring I want to turn to our artists with us our actors I think it's it's great that you have embodied these historic characters and I want to hear from each of you First i'm going to turn to shree shree mirajkar is an active left brain creative He's a seasoned award-winning actor writer and director with passion for theater Filmmaking and storytelling by day. He's president of an it consulting firm But he's also launched new ventures in environmental and sustainability space He is playing mahatma ghandi in ghandi and jina return home And I know that is quite a challenge for a person who is known not just in south asia But across the world right and in now in this day and age. There's quite a bit of criticism of him He's become more controversial even in india. I want to explore with you. How was it? You know embodying him on stage. What do you look forward to? What did you learn but also how you know as part of the diaspora from south asia How has this connected you to your personal story being part of this play over to you shree? Thank you so much and thanks to us ip for having us over here. I think We're talking about something that is extremely important and playing ghandi, of course, you know what gave it away, but It's a very very iconic role for me as an actor. I think this is a dream come true for any actor to play such a such a What can I say about ghandiji right? I think a lot of us are a veer and We would love to live by his principles, which is extremely important at a time At today, you know, what is going on in the world? So for me as an actor certainly a challenge I Ended up losing a little bit of weight and preparing for this role. I think and that's the only way to to have done it but The play by itself and the dialogue that happens between jinnah between ghandi between Winston Churchill, you know three extremely extremely important And giants in themselves and what they did for their own countries. I think that by itself is so so important and where history You know teaches us so much And without that knowledge without that education for us to move forward today, you know and to find our path I think it's extremely important. This play is extremely important. Dr. Amit has done full justice to bringing Some very very important issues to the forefront and also Obviously now for us to perform on stage under the able direction of manjula is is quite a Not only a challenge, but I think It's been an extremely extremely satisfying process and We're excited. We would hope for all of all of you guys to come and support us and watch us and See the play and hopefully take away a message of peace and harmony and love so Thanks very much shree I want to turn to you for han for han paaba is President and CEO of pescara consulting offering Modern analytic solutions So he's you know currently pursuing AI based driven solutions So I think this play is a little bit of a departure from your day job But you are also an avid polo player and you enjoy participating in creative arts including filmmaking and theater He is playing Muhammad Ali jinnah the founder of pakistan in this play You know jinnah is a maybe a lesser known figure to a us public than maybe Mahatma Gandhi but not you know in the in the Freedom post-colonial reality of the subcontinent as an important figure, especially for pakistan's history Can you talk a little bit about What went into building for you the character of jinnah and what you how was that experience? What did you learn from the experience? Thank you tamanna And us ip for giving us this plot platform talk about this First of all it playing jinnah means the world to me It's a great honor for me to be interpreting There's such a such an enormously heroic figure in history and And you know as you know jinnah was he had to struggle against The greatest political odds at the time in india That is the british empire the the then congress party of india to to create a nation state To create a state that That became the at the time the largest muslim nation on earth So You know so the partition of india is is is a is a very The independence and the subsequent partition into two countries is a very controversial figure Controversial event and history It's to date. It's highly debated So for me in order to do justice to this play To this character in particular I had to really embark on a journey to educate myself to educate myself about uh about what You know what what what it meant to jinnah What uh what india meant to jinnah what muslims meant to jinnah and and eventually what pakistan meant to jinnah And You know being one of the the most successful lawyers of his time both in india and britain um it uh It it just really intrigued me as to what it meant to him to migrate from his indulgence into Savile rose suits and and and a luxurious lifestyle to to really To really adopting a life with a cause a cause that really culminated into creating a new a new nation state so um So I had to study accounts of his life to understand what was going on with him was going on at the time of partition His various, you know, you know political positions in his life And in particular, I mean I could go on and on but in particular what he thought about Political representation of minorities for example has his post partition speeches about about how He really, you know stressed stressed upon Upholding the secular values So all of that it it it's really interesting. I think it it has really enriched me I think it's it's transformed me already. I feel like I have a more enlightened view on On minorities rights or human rights And and it you know, it's um And especially the secular values that we keep talking about what's going on in the world around the world these days for For decades and how it's also becoming a challenge in the subcontinent to be honest, you know to To to uphold those secular values so when this first When the opportunity came to me so my wife was like You have to do this Cannot give this up and you must perform So it you know, so the decision came in a heartbeat. So for me it really To be playing jinnah Is is is critical in my life right now. I think it's for me. It is like Playing a very tiny or being a tiny a very tiny part of the history the history that I think continues to to Shape the future south asia region Thank you very much. Thanks. Um, I'd like to turn to somya somya kini Dr. Somya kini is a public health researcher with a focus on health equity and how it impacts Public health and research outcomes, especially among underserved communities She's equally passionate about all aspects of music from its creation to performance to production And she's a budding pianist singer and most recently has become interested in composing recording and mixing Her introduction to creative arts came from her grandmother a vocalist and musician herself And has been immersed in indian classical music theater dance and literature And somya you play the indian activist. It's a imaginary character minna kumari in Gandhi and jinnah return home and I think you have a very interesting You're not a historical character. You actually I think represent us. You are A modern critical observer of what's going on and I think it's great You're almost, you know, you're the outside observer. You're the conscious of the play So I'd love to hear as we're exploring all of these different problems I mean the play touches on so many issues in modern day india and pakistan, whether it's gender religious minorities casteism Pluralism so many different things. How did you Deal with all of these and you know, you yourself are part of the diaspora Coming from south india. How was it that this experience changed and affected you? That's a that's a great question. And thank you tamanna for for asking that And I'm going to say one thing. I have Gandhi on one side and jinnah on the other Promoting peace it at the us peace institute how, you know, it can't get any better than that so thank you all for coming and Having showing an interest in in our in the work that we're putting we've really been working hard it's the final week and Would love to see some of you at the play and Hopefully you'll enjoy and also take home with you the message of peace that this play is trying to promote So to answer your question. I think yes, I play a more current woman the woman of today My name is Mina kumari and I did ask dr. Ahmed why Mina kumari? What was the reason for that name and he said she was a very iconic film actress from the 70s And apparently that's his favorite Film actress And so he decided to name this character Mina kumari But there is a surprise element about that name as well that's explored in the play So would love to Have you find that out? and So what does it mean for me to be playing Mina kumari the woman of today? I play a journalist from new deli She's very strong outspoken and a very vocal fact driven woman And I think as samanna mentioned My grandmother was a big inspiration for me Who you know in the 40s 30s and 40s was the first woman in our family to get A high school education, which was really important at that time And she pursued a career in music. She taught music to provide for her family Didn't let any of these other societal norms kind of question her passion and her interests so Likewise, I was the first woman in my family to come here to the u.s As a student as a 21 year old and pursue my education So i'm happy to emulate these characteristics that Mina kumari Shows in the play as a strong woman as a passionate woman as a fact driven woman And also I play a journalist and an activist and I did some research about Journalists in india the journalism How it is You know happening today as we speak because I wanted to be more current in how I understand the world as we see today, especially in india And she worked this friend of mine worked as one of the top journalists in the 1990s 2000s time frame And she had some really interesting experiences to share One of the things I remember her saying is during training she was taught the Journalists ethical code Which are two things one is being unbiased And second is being non affiliated which is not having any political or religious Aspects to your own being which might bias or which might convolute your fact Reporting abilities So I feel really honored to actually exemplify these specific two qualities as a journalist in this play Which represents the journalist ethical code? Which is I feel is in question in india currently We are in a very interesting situation You know and what this play explores is it starts with the partition time frame where political and religious aspects were key And the play also explores the current contemporary situation where I feel That the same two aspects political and religious aspects are at play as well So this play really beautifully brings those two aspects together And that's what makes me excited about this play and being able to play mina kumari Thank you so much. So yeah, can I make a comment? Yes, please dr. Ahmad I wanted to make a brief comment Dr. Sumia's way Beautifully encapsulated her role In fact, that is one of my most favorite roles Because I've created it With a lot of nuance a lot of colors within the role So we know jana. We know gandhi. There's not much scope that I can do Everyone knows who they are and everyone knows where they stand But it is mina kumari who is amorphous because she's representing the conscience of south asia And you see the dilemmas. She's courageous, but she's under a lot of pressure Which she given will she make a stand how much of a stand much she make how much of Tradition much she preserved in order to move forward all those nuances because we have the mana a very strong emphasis in attempting to correct The imbalance in south asian history as far as gender is concerned You know, you'll notice from our history that is often seen as the history of jana and gandhi and that's it So in our play, you'll see a very strong role for the women in the play. I mean, obviously we can't give them as much Place as we can to the men, but we have a very strong role for kasturba gandhi's wife and fath manjana They have very strong roles and they make their presence very much felt The purpose eventually is Not only to entertain art for art sake, but also to educate Because manjula said very few people know about these characters even of our generation And there's a new generation growing up the diaspora who really know very very little So the more we talk and I have a wonderful american students at american university And they know very little about south asia south asia is sort of blank So, you know, it's furthest china china us rivalry or ukraine or now the middle east but south asia gets dropped in a hole So it's important to understand As I said the complexity the history the culture of that part of the world and that comes through this particular Play because at the end of the play we'll have these two Gigantic characters and both are giants in their own way titans Both of them the arc begins right in the beginning where they are in conflict from the history where history Fades away 47 48 when they leave the leave us on this planet But by the end of the play they come together They come together in a very warm and emotional manner and manjula being the great director She's she's moved that scene to such a point that there'll be many tears in the audience because they'll see something very symbolic They hope i'm not giving away your end. No, even I just add quickly one point To the gender perspective So again, it couldn't be more timely the whole question about Journalists in that part of the world and especially female journalists because there's been a lot of news as to how Someone has been killed and this and the so it's very timely to address that but what is Very important aspect is how Dr. Ahmed has first shown us in 1947 The power the strength of women like kasturba Gandhi Mahatma Gandhi's wife and Fatima jinnah Jinnah's sister So that was 1947 and then we come to the present day of that the differences and we end with we might say We'll be be with you. No, we've added we will lead the way. So that's a futuristic Women's issue over there But there is as we were having a discussion in one of our rehearsals also the cultural so we cannot Say oh, but in the united states women do this for women's empowerment You have to understand the cultural aspect of it. So it's a very important aspect that will be Something quite new in the play people are coming with the historical and you know that so i'm excited That's great. I want I want to build on this, you know, the play highlights many issues So gender you've mentioned you always also talk about religious identity coexistence Pluralism democracy religious fanaticism Gandhi's favorite halla. Yeah Gandhi's favorite halla is also in there But dr. Ahmad I want I want to draw you out you have been a professor for many years You've been a diplomat You've seen how hard these issues are not only were they difficult at 47 48 But they continue to be drivers of conflict in both india and pakistan across south asia to be You know when I visit all of the countries of south asia We see these as drivers of internal conflict and so what are the lessons that your play is trying to impart To a new generation to people in the region and do you see hope To overcome any of these Tamana, I do see hope because I am by nature an Optimist a positive person in spite of the misery around us sometimes Maybe I'm not quite normal, but that's how I see the world And that's what's kept me going because otherwise if you begin to add up two plus two and it comes to four You're really in trouble because the world is in a in a bad shape I'm inspired by the famous Jewish Jewish shibboleth Tikkun olam to heal a fractured world and that's also in Islam that if there's a problem if People are hurting try to help and I think that in south asia It is really time to go back to the greats And that's why I go back to jinnah and gandhi because they are if you start from them Then you can begin the process of healing you can't do it on your own There's so many politicians who've come and gone and they will continue to come and go But these are the two permanent features in both these countries and they can Understanding them and understanding life and society through them and through what they wanted what they really wanted And I did a very deep study as you know, I made films. I wrote my documentaries. I wrote books on both of them Both of them have so much to give to us today It's very very moving and I feel very very Privileged to me from south asia when you read matman gandhi you are amazed at his His warmth his humanity his philosophy and his great sense of humor And the way they work together in terms of sense of humor You know when one meets the other gandhi meets jinnah and says you have mesmerized the muslims And jinnah replies you have hypnotized the hindus. Now this kind of boyish ad iteration You don't imagine any other politician doing that sort of using that sort of language But yet they had that spirit that they were they were live and they were Interacting almost as a kind of sparring using each other sparring partners So I have a lot of hope that if people understand the problems and understand the solutions through these Great historic figures that we have. I think we can move I think gandhi is someone that pakistani should really know about We know very little in pakistan very very often as a stereotype. Similarly with jinnah in india That will help that will help Majorities to understand the minority better and therefore ease their own societies Because right now societies in both countries are heading into a cul-de-sac They have no solutions. You can't just continue to Hit people or break people or kill people and say this is going to be a solution. It's never worked in history Professor ahmad if I may draw you out a little bit on the denuclearization I found this very interesting by the end of the play both gandhi and jinnah Believe that neither both countries should move towards denuclearization now. This is a A conversation that is not happening in reality in either country. It isn't happening tabana and Don't announce it too early. I'll get in trouble But I mean you the fear But you see again as a playwright. I had to be ruthlessly honest and put myself in the shoes or in gandhi's case sandals What would he be thinking? What would want to be matma be thinking about the nuclear program? And forget whatever about hindu chauvinism, etc He would be concerned about humanity What would jinnah be thinking? Again, he would be concerned about humanity. You know jinnah would never say He was a nuclear bomb and killed so many hindus or killed so many six because they were his people He felt and so did gandhi that these are my people. They wanted a separate country Ultimately didn't work out and the aim was not to create two enemies for eternity All the actions are You know the gandhi's action we have it in the play This is a fact that he had agreed to come to pakistan three months of the year Nine months in india three months in pakistan and jinnah had in turn reached out And offered him a state visit so he would be treated as a head of state as a gesture of respect So that was the kind of Attitude they had to each other It wasn't that we're going to be enemies and we start killing each other and shooting at each other As far as nuclear is concerned I am convinced the humanism of these two the humanity of these two would have demanded that for south asia Keep it clean because at some stage Some lunatic in the future may press a button and kill millions of people Who may be hindu or muslim or seek but they will be our people And when you kill our people we all lose something It's exceptional I want to turn actually to talk to both shri and farhan for a second You know a lot of the play focuses on religious intolerance And with one fourth of human population lives in south asia They are often hostage to the hatred from the time of independence right the play really gets into it that You know once hindus and muslims and Sikhs were neighbors sometimes they quarreled Sometimes they shared their lives today. It seems they can't even talk to each other without accusations and abuse I found that a very powerful line in the play and and both of you gandhi in india follows the story of Minority persecution and jinnah in baghistan goes and sees minority persecution and so i want to ask each of you how did you Um, how did you tackle that? It is a very touchy topic in today's day and age But also what is the message obviously that you wanted to to portray so why don't we start with you shri Yeah, I think It is kind of sad where we are in terms of religious intolerance using violence to Either assert your own message your own narrative or The historical Scars I think that each side bears sometimes You know inflicting More violence on each other will never heal those scars And I think it is time for both countries to look at it with you know completely new way of How two neighbors can coexist? and Going back to what dr. Adman had also put about the You know neutralization completely and getting rid of the Nuclear weapons and things like that. I think it's an idealist View, but I think it is something that both countries can and and must work towards to at least Have some some semblance of peace in that area because end of the day. It's the people who end up suffering It's the people who and again every time that I've met with Any of my Pakistani friends any of my um other friends. It's like hey, we have the same language we Wear the same clothes. We look the same Everything's the same. It's one bloody line that got drawn between these two Countries and and made these two countries, uh, India and Pakistan And so I think it is time to look at it differently to say they're an alternative and I think that is what this play presents I think that's what dr. Ahmad has uh brought forth as a solution to say Yes, there are differences hindus muslims But you don't have to always be fighting. You don't have to always be Going back in the past. It's time to Buddy the hatchet in in some ways find a solution find a solution that Unites the people of both India and Pakistan Unites both hindus and muslims for that matter and uh gandhi for that one You know, he had that one message which was humanity which was working for the minorities including the Untouchables harijans In you know in terms of all the muslims christians any of the minorities But I think he would be very very sad to see What is going on in the world today where we are and uh, hopefully his message Resonates with with a few who can change the world so change starts with one and He was one who started that hopefully the momentum can keep going Thank you shree. I appreciate that farhan Yeah, no, I would uh, I would totally Mirror what what shree has said for sure and I also want to mention that I'm not a professional actor. I I have a lot of other things going on in life, especially, you know paying the bills and stuff so for me this really is I really do this out of morality and that relates to your question because it's um This is the time to really start thinking about where the two countries are today versus what the vision or the visions of both jinnah and and gandhi were At the time and if I talk a bit more about the pakistani side, I think it's to me It's it's it's it's vividly clear as to what the vision As to what jinnah's vision was when he created pakistan because all we have is is the speeches that he delivered after the partition, right? And it was very clear that he wanted A modern secular state He he minced no words in in stating stating that in his speeches and you know very clearly he mentioned how how he wanted How he told his people that you're free to go to your temples to your mosques to your churches and and and practice your faith so unfortunately I don't see a lot of tolerance being being upheld today You know more so in the subcontinent We we you know we have India versus pakistan issues But we we also have internal issues I think all of those need to be addressed And I don't find any better way than this To really highlight these issues and make sure that they you know that we all start Debating them start thinking about them and start actually working towards finding solutions And not living in the past and start looking at the future Yeah, very well said. I think in in the play you say jinnah says Creation of pakistan for him is a hollow success pakistanis revere me but but they But they don't really understand my message of creating a modern muslim society Human rights women's rights respect for constitutions. I mean that the lines you've written are very poignant You don't let anyone Go, uh, and I think the criticism is across the board for what we see in sort of modern The one other criticism of me will also be yes But I think for peace you need to be brave. Yes. Yes. Well, we've got gandhi and jinnah with us Yes, manjula leading us so inshallah we'll face them before we open it up to questions from the audience I do want manjula. I want to turn to you, you know How do you see this is You know play and I've seen in india and pakistan great plays Especially in times of oppression where they are critiquing the powers that be, you know, whether it's during zeal hox regime Whether it was in other regimes in india in the 80s their plays and poetry You know and song have been used to criticize How do you see art plays and similar forms of expression can be used to push peace forward right now? We have sort of a logjam root. You know people in power are not necessarily moving forward But can citizenry through art be activated? That's what I deal with all the time think about in creating the arts are creative And so when there are strong messages To convey and you it's not a history lesson. It's not on Book on politics. It's not so the arts in form Now when we're dealing with such an intense complex Controversial issue that the play is about there has to be Relief And that's what I've tried to do in Through collage the Screen for our play is almost another actor So a lot of people in during our rehearsal said you have to help people understand what's going on You have to but you over can't you know over feed as well. So that becomes The creative process from how you select how you put, you know, the actors have to be so precise And that's been a very conscious style for my display we have Nussby fairs. I'm at fairs right in the middle to And he is talking about that dawn that we Hoped for that dawn that we died for where is it one day? So that takes the audience at another level of understanding of feeling Right in the middle of and we've got very intense dialogue What's most impressive And again, I've had this Feedback from so many people dr. Ahmed has written A difficult has handled a very difficult theme but kept the balance amazing There is nobody that has read or seen that can see any tilt anywhere And so not just the Hindus Muslims, but constantly, you know, the Sikhs and the Christians and the Jews There's a dialogue about the nuns are being and yet It's poignant. It's not hitting out. It's not Abrasive. In fact, I keep thinking, oh, there's no bad language in the play. There is no violence We talk about violence, but there is no violence on the stage So I think bringing so many aspects of poetry and we have live music and we have Art work over there makes it More palatable, I think and it reaches a very diverse audience We don't know who's coming at what level of Information they are. So we've got to give a lot but not overfeed And yet you want to engage a very mixed audience So here's our effort and I'm sure we'll do it. Yeah, thank you. I do want to open it up to our In-person audience. We have runners here with microphones. So if you have a question, please Raise your hand. Please do identify yourself and your affiliation and we can start. There's a question right here Good afternoon. My name is Azmat Nasir. I'm of the US federal government So I think the timing and the theme of your play is just impeccable with with the current events going on And what we've seen in the past with the South Asian culture I mean the team so much resonates with what's going on Although, you know, we're looking at the vision that dr. Ahmed has put into it with the amazing skill set from Manjula Kumar I mean, this could be a very big potential for silver screen I mean people could benefit out of the team not only at the washington dc level but across Subcontinent but across the world too. So my question to dr. Ahmed as well as or jointly to Manjula Kumar is has there been any consideration for this to be taken more broadly? So people across the globe can benefit from such a timely and peaceful message Which has been embodied across the board from a south asian perspective But also what is currently going on in the culture and in the world current events right now So I know it's a pretty loaded question in two different parts, but I'm happy to repeat if needed, but Thank you very much Excellent excellent suggestion and I know that Manjula Is already thinking of filming it And hopefully then it'll be available But ideally I agree with you somehow and this is my dream Maybe I can't do it, but people will have to do it Manjula have to once again show the lead If it can be taken to Pakistan taken to India Taken to southeast asia. So people see this engagement. We don't expect to convert everyone We don't expect everyone to say whatever you said is right But we expect people to see the sincerity of the play There's an integrity there that there's a plea that all of us are making that plea the plea for peace And we are saying that we will not expect you to agree with us We will expect you to dialogue to debate to discuss and hopefully hopefully leave the theater With something a bit more positive a bit more hopeful and maybe move this needle a little bit and that will be sufficient for so Manjula, please think of taking it out there Of course Finance is always a problem So I think we have like six performances here In the washington dc area and again as I said, we don't know we cannot predict the audience that we will have But I'm hoping or I will say Predicting that it will be a very mixed audience So we're going to reach out to some people who have no idea of the historical the geopolitical Uh background and we'll see it with an open mind So what do they take away? What are we trying to see from where we were where we are and where we are going? but my I'd be happy I'd be pleased if some people who already come with a baggage Or who are have their own set ideas about no this happened No, this doesn't happen. This is not right and this is not that so they rethink You know one of the beautiful dialogue, you know is saying we want people to look at it with fresh eyes I want to open minds and stir, you know Conversation debate I don't think this is really controversial, but if it is be it let it start and That to me would be and we are hoping This is my third play with dr. Ahmad. We did Dara shiko now noor was based on the whole question of terrorists and how you know And we've shown that film in universities. This will have a much greater appeal You can't just take a play or say You know come watch it. It has to have an interest It has to have an appeal to people But I can't say that Already there is an interest to bring it across the waga border So and universities here they definitely need it and organizations. So I think there's a future beyond the six Performances that we have through november if it was the only very quick thing that I would add is that I see no head on my head for a very long time Please I think we have a question right here Hi, my name is Contessa Bourbon. Thank you for this very interesting forum I'd like to ask how would you describe the dialogues and the acting of the actors that should entice or engage the audience? What are the challenges in directing such diverse actors? Let me repeat the question I think what are the challenges in directing such diverse actors? And maybe if some of the dialogue that should entice and Having read the play I have to say there are some very The dialogue is very piercing and it is very spot-on. They don't shy away from controversy so I would definitely Ask you to you know, we talk they talk about everything from do nuclearization castism religious intolerance Kashmir the static the multi-crisis of pakistan The treatment of muslims in india. There's a you know their minorities in pakistan Even the personal differences of jinnah ghandi church hill if I might actually build on that question You also don't shy away from modern criticism of jinnah and ghandi, right? Both in their countries and worldwide whether it's about race gender So I mean if you want to talk about any of those please So really the challenge to get again as I said a script to the stage Is how can you convince? public An audience of what and there are these three Iconic men in history. We start with church hill an american who's playing More everybody knows about church hill what he looked like how he spoke. So he's been working very hard on learning an english accent british accent and terminology which you've given us and then we have Jinnah and ghandi because Everybody knows what they look like. So so fortunate. I got these people who have Half the world was but their mannerisms and all so it is no he didn't Smoke the cigar like this. He didn't dress like this and Then you have and we have a character nobody knows about but what she should Could be would be wearing how would she behave? so then you have the I call it my kit the drama kit But not every actor Picks up all those annunciation pronunciation projection so What you have in your mind as a director producer? May not be the final product on the stage because you've had to compromise in many places many Issues in areas. It's a constant work If I might ask the actor somia, why don't we start with you? What do you think the biggest challenge was taking you know a written the written dialogue and bringing it alive on stage? Yeah, in fact, I was going to add something to what manjulaji said because this is my debut performance I've I've done theater as a in school, but I have not done it as an adult and The story how this came to be is also really interesting A manjulaji and I were just met up for for lunch and we had some really heated Conversations about my background and where she came from and all of that And the next thing I know is she calls me saying you'll be perfect for this role that I have On this play. Would you like to come and join us? Well, you know would be great and so I was a little hesitant at first and And you know because my background is more in music and recording and piano and those aspects But I know she knows how to bring that out in me and she always says I think I have more of She always says don't smile Because I have a tendency to smile because that's how my personality is And she does the smiling role part of her role better and singing So she really I'm I'm happy in a way that I get to do that the smiling and the singing which are my strengths that you know She's been generous enough to let me do that but also Coach me and guide me in a way that I'm able to deliver The requirements of what Mina Kumari as a journalist as someone who stands for facts and truth would also be doing So it's a it's a great opportunity and I'm very very fortunate to be working with you Wonderful for han or I can add so I You know about the dialogues and stuff. I I also do a A charity event every year. So my last charity event that we did I had to give a little speech And after the speech one of my friends come and he has no idea about the play and he's like Farhan, why are you talking like, you know? So it's like we really It's like we really have to kind of you know live Live this character right now and we think about it and dream about it and all that So it's it's it'll take you it'll take you a long time to come out of the character, but it will never leave you I doesn't look like it will um for me, I think I've done a lot of theater This one this one one character has been Not a challenge as such, but I think it's a very very humbling experience for me and Initially, I was in India when manjulaji contacted me and at that time, you know Looking at the title having not read the entire script completely I was a little skeptical. I was little skeptical to say, okay You know what and I've worked with manjulaji before I've worked on noor Dr. Ahmad's another play and as a terrorist Yeah, I was a terrorist there and look at this from a terrorist to gandhi But I was skeptical to not present Gandhiji in A negative light You know again You have your own thoughts about this whole thing to say He's bringing Gandhi and Jinnah back and he's going to talk about partition He's going to talk about current day. What's going on? How critical is he going to be and how balanced will he be in terms of both these characters and For indians, I think you know Gandhi is what he is and for pakistanis jinnah is what he is and we Revere these characters from history and and what they've done for these two countries And so I was very very skeptical But very pleasantly surprised that uh, I think dr. Ahmad has done Full justice to making sure that You know both are very balanced and both are given The stage time given the You know platform to be able to share their thoughts as far as history is concerned And uh, not necessarily distorting anything from history the way things happen But also bring them into the present and take them into the future To say you both are now You know nuclear States and what does that mean? It's a very very heavy responsibility I think that you place on the character and that is something that I keep struggling with to say What is the message that this man is giving? And he's given the message that people know about but now this is a completely new gandhi A new gandhi who's talking about Nuclear he's talking about peace. He's you know, he's been doing that all this time But now it's so much more relevant The character by itself is so much more relevant. So it's a very very interesting Fascinating for me to explore this character to keep you know peeling out the Different layers of this onion to say what is it that? You know, he is all about today You know vis-a-vis what's going on in the world peace fighting violence intolerance Women's issues so many different things that that the play addresses So I think in that context It's extremely important to You know keep breaking down that character for me. Thank you very much. Can I just Actually a little bit past time. So I'm going to have to cut you off. I'm so sorry manjula But I'm going to actually turn either of you. I mean, I think dr. Ahmad Just is going to give the last word As we're a little over time, but I want to thank the audience for joining us today. Please Dr. Tamana just to thank you. Thank you s. Ip And I want to bring on record My appreciation of manjula kumar And a brilliant cast some of who you met this evening This play could not have been staged without manjula A commitment her passion and her compassion to me She is the true bridge between India and Pakistan and between the communities And I want to acknowledge her daughter aisha And her late beloved husband who I know is looking down at us With great beneficence She takes inspiration from him And I would like to thank the cast and the better halves of the cast I know all of them their wives and their husbands are With them supporting them and I know when foran had his haircut. I'm sure he cleared it with maham first Yes, she given the haircut. So thank you all so much. I want to give a special thanks to dr. Ahmad and manjula kumar For putting this play out into the world. I hope you all can see it this weekend at american university There are flyers out there and we really hope your dream for peace And tolerance on the subcontinent and between indians and pakistanis can come to life Thank you all for joining us here today and online. Thank you. Thank you