 Gweld llawer. Mae'n fawr yn gweithio ar y peth, gyda'r ystafell ac mae'n ddweud. Mae'n fawr yn ni'n fawr yn cael ei wneud i fod â'r cymdeithas mewn ymgyrchu. Mae'n gweithio ar y cyflwyng o'r ffordd. Mae'n gweithio ar y pethau a'n gweithio ar y bwysig ac mae'n gweithio ar y bwysig yn cael eu bwysig. Mae'n gweithio ar y bwysig yn gallu gweld i'r cyflwyng. Mae gennym amddir i'r sgod lle fydd iawn i'n ddysgu i'r program arfer y midlwch chiínhaeg yn trafnol eu hunain a'r awbrog ac mae hyn yn cael ei fwylaethau ar gyllidau y DAE, sef yw maternau ar drwsgir yng Nghyrch Gwrthoedd yn y ddenw'i, ac mae'r tychau lle fydd yn personalio l Noise'r Cymru a'r Scotty. Just a ffewch ddim dod i'r hunain. Traut i bod gennym ei amser ar y Cwylig Carchen wedi llwyddo meddwl. Mae llwyddo i'r llwyddo yn Y Llywodraeth. Traut i bod yn ffarsag. Felly yw'r ymwneud yn y cobl amser ar y Llywodraeth. Fod y bydd yn y llwyddo yn yr harem ar y gwahosio â chefnain ffarsig, mae oedd ar y llwyddo ar y Cwylig Carchen. OK. A dwi'n gweithio'r lawl, mae gennym ni'n gweithio. Felly, o'r ffawr, ychydig ychydig ymlaen o'r ffawr. A'r fawr, mae gennym ni'n gwneud y bydd yma'r fawr o'r fawr o'r fawr o'r fawr. Felly, rydyn ni'n gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio. Mae'n gwbl i'r bwysig, mae'n ddigon i'r parogadau yw yr eich cyffordd yn ddigon i'r bwysig yma, mae'n bwysig i bwysig yma, maen nhw'n gweithio'n gweithio a i'r ddechrau i gyd. Mae'n dwi'n gweithio'n dweud, mae Marko eich cyfnod yn ddwyd. Marko eich gweithio i'r dweud, mae Marko eich cyfriddio'n fanyfio'n dweud, yn ymweld y maen nhw'n gweithio. Mae'r marco yn ystod o'r gweithio, ond, oherwydd, o'r technolig, mae'n gweithio'n marco o'r Llyfrgell. Mae'n gweithio'n marco o'r gweithio o'r gweithio, ac mae'n rhaid o'n fawr oherwydd mae'n gweithio'n gweithio. Felly, rydyn ni'n gweithio'n gweithio o Mark Babbage, yng Nghymru artistol, o'r trwg yn ysgol, o'r hynny'n gweithio'n gweithio'n gweithio. Felly, rydyn ni'n gweithio'n gweithio os eich gweithio'n gweithio gyda'r oherwydd fawr i gyrtro ac mae'n gweithio'n gweithio. Mae hynny'n gweithio'n gweithio i gyrtro oherwydd, a'r gweithio ar ymhlŷb mae'n wneud hon o'r arweithio o'r FfB, at Llyfrgell, o'r gweithio'n gweithio. Felly, rydyn ni'n gweithio i gael cael ei Syrry. Felly, wrth gweithio'n gweithio o'r grifais a'r tŵr Pom i amser. Fawr yn fawr loson am blaenau. Os dim yn dda i ddim yn bach arniad ar gyfer hynny. Mae'r hanes o gyllid gyda ni. Kydych chi'n wylch am gafodd cyd-boi'r pethau. Mae wneud bod gyda'r yn ddechrau o'r peiriau, sy'n bwysig i gyd ddiogel i wedi ddechrau. Mae'n gweld i'r thromau i hefyd, a mae'r holl yn yw Gilbert yn George of Hull. Mae angen ddych chi i weithio, Cymru yn ymweld atyngu, Chris, ond mae fyddwn ni gwybod yn cael ei wneud. Welcom. Fy oedd yn fwy o'r byw yn y bydd. Mae'n fydd yn fydd yn fyddio i chi i gyd. Fy oedd ymddangos i chi i gyd ogi cyfeiriadau. Roedd y bydd yn swydd yn y fwy o'r bydd yn ymddangos sy'n cyffredin iawn a feithio ar gyfer yw ymddangos ymddangos. Mae ymddangos gyfrifiadau, yr adeiladau, ymddangos, yng Nghymru'r bod ni'n amser i gael bod yn ychydig yn ei ddweud ar y gwerth gwrthu'n mynd i gael y gwaith ychydig yn dda. Felly mae hynny efallai efallai ar y gweithio, mae'n ymwneud am ymwneud y gweithio. Rwy'n rhedeg o'n gwneud ar y gweithio, ac mae gennym eich gweithio arall ei bod yn ei ddweud ar hyn. a we're going to take them back into our teams next week and ask the question, what can we do to continue this process of change? Many people have said, and I think we're all very aware of, we do live in some very testing times of change and division. And clearly, I think we need artists to use their power to see the world through a different lens and demand a fairer and just society and a kinder society. This is a time of intense change and people really still living through the hard end of austerity. And what we do is extraordinary powerful when handled well. And we should be mindful of how we can use our power to the greater good. We should acknowledge those that are genuinely struggling and those that continue to feel that they have a lack of voice. And these people are quite rightly demanding to be heard and to be in the room when we need to listen and take action. I don't think anyone has expressed this more powerfully than the amazing Jess Tom yesterday. I mean, what a speaker, what an artist, what a great human being Jess is. And I was reflecting to a number of colleagues that if we wanted to quickly catapult the transformation and change, invite Jess into your organisation and explode that thought bomb into your organisation and see what happens. Her call for power and responsibility and inclusion is with us, taking action together. A very powerful statement of fear creates barriers. And just that simple thing of reduce the faff, reduce the fuss. But the one thing I will definitely take away is that next week my colleagues and I are definitely going to think about what a fuck-a-goat the policy means for Hulltruck Theatre. Those of you that weren't here yesterday, that might sound very odd indeed. But watch Jess on YouTube. She's truly, truly an inspiring human being that we can all really learn from. Six years ago, we began a big process of transformation here at Hulltruck Theatre. And our aim was to create an organisation that welcomes multiple voices and see this as a creative muscle to be flexed and to be celebrated. We've had our successes, but we've also had our very gallant failures. I just want to tell you a few of those successes. Our community dialogues programme is an action research programme which we started because simply we didn't know enough about the barriers that existed. We made too many assumptions. And so we put in place an action research programme, community dialogues into the barriers and how we could overcome them. And we worked specifically on Orchard Park and Thornton Estate. Some of the things that have come out of that are simple things like pay what you can performances for every single Hulltruck Theatre performance. And this is really not just about the economic barrier, but it's also about behaviours and assumptions and language. And a lot of our work has been to understand, at a deeper level, what those are. Terms like box office, terms like interval, foie, and it's absolutely okay to be vocal. Those performances have taught us a lot about things in our industry that have been long-standing and things that perhaps we just need to challenge and challenge the assumptions of behaviours in theatres. We have a cross-departmental inclusion group. So that's not just a group that is senior-led. This is led throughout the entire organisation. And it's a way of saying it's all our responsibility. So that inclusion group deals with programming, recruitment, wellbeing, accessibility. And it's about Hulltruck Theatre trying their very best to continue the journey of the big welcome that everything on the way to the seat matters. And the connectivity is not just the show on stage, it's everything in this building on the way to the seat matters. We now have introduced an inclusive casting policy which means that any actor will be taken seriously for any role regardless of their protected characteristics. And there's a huge commitment to gender balance across our creative teams in the entire Hulltruck Theatre producing season. Our programming is continuing to be more representative of modern Britain. We have new theatre makers making a noise on our stage. We've got one, two in this building that you can witness, mental child with a bilingual production of us against whatever. Silent opera or tiling in mental health. And there's a couple of other companies who are not doing shows as such, but companies we support and are very proud of, the roaring girls with a strong feminist and funny or an authentic voice. The herd with their early years work and our international collaborations with Podapoda, the Market Theatre. And shortly we will be beginning a huge project with the Amazing Freedom Festival on the biggest international project I think we've ever undertaken. I think the biggest thing I have to say really is that this is hard. And we are all trying to do something that is very hard and somewhere we're going to miss something. And the important thing about that is that we've got to recognise it when we do and try all the time to do it better. And frankly dealing with it when it doesn't happen. There are going to be times when you step on landmines. There are going to times where things that you haven't thought or suddenly explode and it's how you deal with it and how you take forward and to do nothing is no longer acceptable. You got to be, I think, an invite and welcome and be open to be channel, challenged. And 18 months ago, my dear colleague Amanda Hookstable came on board as a change maker here at Hulltruck Theatre. And Amanda's voice within our organisation has really transformed the way we think, the way we move forward and is just part of the evolution of this company. And one of the things that I do know from that amazing, and those of you that don't know Amanda, she is around, you should try and meet Amanda. She is an amazing human being and a director who I think is going to make a big impact on the industry. We should never feel that we've arrived. Cos when we've arrived, we stop, we relax, we close our eyes to the world around us, but the world continues to change. And we need to develop our muscle to continually keep an eye on this because change is a continual thing. And there will be those times when we think we've arrived and we've not. We've just got to keep an eye on that. My last thoughts are thanks to Hulltruck Theatre staff for continuing their big welcome. It's been fantastic to meet up with some old colleagues the last few days. If you haven't come and say hi, come and say hi. I'm around. It'd be really nice to speak with you, hear what's going on in your lives, in your organisation. I'm going to introduce Marco Martiniello now, who's the director of the University of Leish, whose keynote is on arts, ethnicity and migration. Thank you for your time. Have a lovely day. Thank you. Okay. Can I go? Yeah? Okay, good morning everybody. I'm very sorry not to be able to be with you this morning. Physically, I mean, I can assure you it's not the fear of Brexit that prevented me to travel, but severe problems in my family. I would like today to share few thoughts with you about the complex relationships between arts, ethnicity and migration. And I will not go into the definitions. I mean, we could probably spend more than the allocated time to discuss about the definition of arts, ethnicity and migration, and I will not go into that this morning. I will just start by saying, from my point of view, I am not an artist, unfortunately. I'm a sociologist specialised in migration and ethnic relations. And what we've witnessed over the past 30 years is really an explosion of the academic literature on the issue of the integration of immigrants in Europe, in the US, in Canada, but also in other parts of the world. There are all sorts of research available about integration into the labour market, about housing, about discrimination, racism, and I will come back to that point later. But at least in social sciences, one issue has really been sort of neglected, and it is precisely the relationship between arts and the incorporation of migrants, but also the descendants of migrants, and more broadly, I would say, the relationship between arts and migration. I mean, in the social science field, of course. In the US, one of the first books discussing thoroughly the importance of arts in the life of immigrants was only published in 2010 by DiMaggio and Fernandez, the first one called DiMaggio being a sociologist of culture. And for a country that raises itself of being a nation of immigrants, it is quite bizarre that the social sciences, and especially sociology of migration, has neglected the issue of the connection between arts and migration. In the European Union, the issue is even, I would say, more difficult because actually we started with colleagues from different European countries. A standing committee in a network called E-Misco. For those who don't know, E-Misco stands for International Migration and Social Cohesion in Europe. It is a network of research institutes specialised in migration issues, founded about, founded about 15 years ago. And within that, you know, broad network, we actually have now about 47 research institutes and more than 500, 600 researchers dealing with migration in Europe, but also outside of Europe. In that network, actually, there was very little on the issue of arts and culture. And with my colleagues from Vienna and Barcelona, Deepka Sievers, who was a specialist in literature, and my colleague Rikar Zapata from Pompeo Faber University of Barcelona, we decided to create a standing group on arts and migration. And actually, initially, our colleagues were not very enthusiastic about the idea. You know, people think that when you talk about migration, you have to think about part stuff, you know, the labour market and the housing, health and so on. Which, of course, is very important and crucial. But we tried to convince our colleagues that it was very important to examine and pay attention to the symbolic dimensions of the debates around migration and ethnicity, and also to dedicate some time trying to develop a research agenda on these relationships between arts, ethnicity and migration. And that's what we've been doing, I would say, quite successfully over the years. And the first thing we tried to analyse is basically why this neglect historically on the connection between arts and migration. And I see basically two major reasons that are related to the history of migration and that are related also to the history of colonialism and to the history of the imperialist, Eurocentric view of the world that developed on this part of the world. If we take into account the way migration was constructed, actually for decades the image was that migrants were just workers, they were factors of production. So actually they had no culture, they had no aspiration to become citizens, and they were supposed not to be interested in arts, either as producers or as consumers. You know, you can read, if you read the literature about migration starting from the end of the 40s onwards, you really have that idea very much that migrants actually are dehumanised, they are just considered as a simple factor of production. And I remember this message, I don't remember the name of the author now, but he was saying, talking about migration, we have imported arms and we realised actually that there are also human beings wearing those arms. And this view of migration as being strictly related to the economy is part of the explanation why we didn't want to see that migrants and then their descendants were like anybody else, artistic persons, not more, not less, something to be discussed. And from the start, if I take an example from the history of migration in this country, I'm now in Belgium and Brussels, when Belgium and Italy signed an agreement to import mine workers from Italy, well, from the beginning, these Italian workers that were arriving in Belgium started some of them to write, novels, poetry, they continued to play the music. And I remember myself in the family gatherings when I was a kid, always at each meeting somebody would take up an accordion or a guitar and people were starting to sing, to share songs from the country of origin to dance. Actually, they were developing a cultural and artistic practice, of course, under the radar. It was not known by society. The second reason why the sociology of migration has neglected the arts until very recently is that arts is a bit like sport. It's considered to be a trivial issue. It doesn't meet really the social demands in this very troubled period. So if you look at funding until recently, it was, of course, much easier to find funding if you would develop a project on how to prevent radicalization of third-generation Muslims, for example. Then if you would develop a project on the artistic production among immigrant minorities. And so this is a viewer with my colleagues who are really challenging very strongly. We do believe that arts like sport has really a lot to tell us about the changes that occur on a daily basis in our society. And so it is, we think, very important to look at those issues. Well, depending on the country, of course, towards the 60s, 70s, 80s, the artistic production of migrants and ethnicized minorities, sometimes inspired by the experience of migration and discrimination, were progressively seen as modes of changing enriching the local culture through different processes like artistic melting, fusion, invention of news in credit artistic form. Well, we've done a lot of work, especially on music, and I could mention many examples, but, for example, the rise of the high music in France. Well, the history of high music is, of course, in the north of Algeria. Originally, it's sung without instruments, and especially by women. Well, in the 80s in France, it became the mode of expression of the second generation immigrants that were at the time started to mobilize against racism. And Rai, actually, they were the Rai, they were playing at really not so much to do with the original Rai songs of Algeria, but it was sort of urbanized, mixed in up, adding instruments, like also electrical instruments, but keeping some modes of singing, and sometimes also taking tongues from the French repertoire and giving to those songs a very different meaning. I could talk about that for hours, but just to mention that example, it's really one example of how these artists started to create something new, adapted to where they were living, and to the struggle they were trying to push forward. Well, we could take many examples in different parts of the world, but, like, Tex-Mex music in the US was something that actually is strongly connected to the history of migrations with the S in the southern states of the US. And so, progressively, attention was paid by cultural studies, anthropology and sociology of cultures, movies, productions. Another strand of study relates to ethnic and racial domination in the artistic field as well. Well, many people think that the artistic worlds are, by nature, open and immune from discrimination and domination. We know that it is not true. If you read the history of jazz in the US, there were actually lots of issues linked to the mainstreamization of jazz and how it related to the continued domination of the white majority. And that explains also why African-American musicians invented new styles in order to recreate and re-possess, re-take procession of their mode of expression. The same is true for the blues. Originally, we all know the history of the blues. It originates, of course, from Africa, and when it became a major mode of expression in the southern states of the EU, especially sung by people with little formal education living in rural areas, and most of them were African-Americans. Well, today, who plays the blues in the US? It's mainly white middle class, or even more than middle-aged white men. So what does it tell us about the appropriation of artistic forms in our divided societies? And maybe we could continue and develop also this view with hip-hop and how basically it became also a matter of appropriation by people who were not originally involved in the movement. Actually, today, hip-hop has become, as you know, a global phenomenon. But if we look at sales, well, a few years ago, there were studies made about who buys, when people were still buying records, who buys rap albums and CDs. That study was showing it was mainly white, middle and upper class suburban kids that were buying new records. So my claim here is really to convince, and I'm pretty sure you are convinced, but not everybody is outside, the people who are not really necessarily on a daily basis in all these debates. Really it's crucial to better understand the relevance of the arts in the theoretical, but also in the political and policy debates on migration, immigrant integration, and also diversity in our cities that are in constant flux. My colleague Steve Werthaveck talks about super-diverse cities. And actually, yes, there is a kind of process of diversification of our cities in which actually the artistic part plays an important role. Even more in our, somebody was talking about earlier, about austerity, yes, we are today still in a phase of history where social and economic inequalities are still there, are growing, and increasingly social and economic relations are ethnicized and racialized. And in my view, it is in this very specific and difficult context, it is really important to look at what art, what the arts can play, what the arts play as a role in these societies. And to do so, I think it's important to develop research in five domains. Local cultures and artistic expression, social relations and interactions, of course the dimension of cultural policies and local integration policies for political mobilization and participation and five economic life. And I will just say, tell you a few elements about these five dimensions before opening up for discussion. So, as I already mentioned, when people meet in our societies of immigration, and by the way I take here the opportunity to claim for a broader change of paradigm that we should really make in Europe, and when I say Europe, I include, I still include the UK in Europe, is that we should stop seeing migration as something that is problematic, as something that does not belong to our history. But migration is something that construct and reconstruct societies. Migration is a structural phenomenon. So, and it will continue to be whatever the exit will be in the Brexit debates. For the UK and it will be for Europe, it will be for the world. I think we should include more migration as a structural mode of reconstruction of any all human society. If we do that paradigm, maybe we will see things with different eyes and try to find more ways of constructing these projects that we hardly need in the future of mankind. So, if we go back to more practical and even local things, I insist on the local because many things now happen also at the local level with an interaction with the global level. I'm with you today, 10 years ago, probably this would not have been possible. So, I'm here, but I'm with you at the same time. And it's the same, of course, many people in our societies. Going back to how migration changes local artistic culture, I mentioned already a few elements of that and we could actually take many examples. I hear mention again a couple of examples on music, but we can also take the example of literature. My generation was very, very struck by the writer Anif Qureshi, who I think is booked a Buddha of Suburbia was probably one of the best attempt to really understand the difficulties of our diverse society, but it was, I think, in terms of writing something that has an extreme value and it has become now part also not only of the world literature, but certainly also of British literature. In cinema, if we want to go to Germany, the work of Fatihakim, for example, who is not considered anymore as a migrant filmmaker, but really his contribution to the German cinema is recognized by everybody. So these people all have a kind of personal history linked to migration. They are not necessarily themselves migrants, but they might be the children of people who actually moved to European countries. And so, nearly immigrants and their descendants, they contrary to what people still want, they do not merely assimilate to the local arts and culture. They transform the local artistic landscape and give birth to new artistic languages. We have just published with my colleague from CUNY Bill Cazinitz, especially issue dedicated to music, immigration and the city. And Phil, in his contribution, shows how Broadway actually be unthinkable without migration. Broadway now is presented as one of the best illustrations of the American culture, one of the touristic attractions of New York, but Broadway without immigration probably would never exist. If we look at social relations and interactions, the question we are asking is, are artistic practices resources to build bridges between people, to create a new lingua franca, to create new forms of solidarity in our divided and racialized and ethnicized societies? In other words, can people who have very severe difficulties in getting together outside in society, could they really use artistic practices in order to try to rebuild some bonds and basically to recognize each other as equal members of the same society? And I've been very much interested over the past five, six years by all this research on everyday multiculturalism, the word by Aerith Wessendorf, Paul Geroi, et cetera. And I've tried to observe what is going on in Belgian cities, especially in Brussels and in the Neage, my city, about this everyday multiculturalism. What does it mean in the artistic sphere? Is it really something we can observe? Or is it simply a wishful thinking? Things that we would like to see but do not exist anymore. And I think that really it exists. People develop this experience of diversity without, of course, theorizing about it. I'm not talking about an urban generation that is inspired by things like Kim Lika or whatever. They don't care about theorizing, but they really experience modes of living together that go beyond the traditional categories of division in society. Religious, gender, ethnicity, race, and social class. And they really develop new ways of living together in the city. And that happens in mixed neighborhood that still exists, even though there is in many cities a process of fragmentation also of the urban space. But also what is important to notice is that for part of the young, diverse urban generation, the traditional forms of categorization are very different from the traditional forms in the most people co-operate and live together in daily life. And this is, I would say, very visible in artistic practices associated sometimes to the expression we could also deconstruct of urban culture. We could discuss at length what is actually urban culture. Young people develop, and I say young people because most of the time they are young, and they develop what I call local communities of artistic practices. And I've observed, I'm still observing that, in dance, in music and theatre. Actually what mattered in those communities, local communities of artistic practices is the project. Not that much where you are from, what are your sexual orientation, what is your religion, what matters is the project. In that way they move beyond the traditional categories of division to develop what I call an anchored cosmopolitanity. Why? Because they are at the same time embedded in the local life with a very strong feeling of belonging to the city or the neighbourhood, but at the same time they identify with similar groups elsewhere in the world. There are all sorts of connections between, for example, the people of the poor suburbs of Naples in Italy, and people in the favelas in Rio that are made possible by also new technologies. And therefore, the role of internet and the new technologies is very important to develop these transnational connections that allow the development of what I call this anchored cosmopolitanism. Of course there are also patterns of physical mobility. If you take the example of dance, for example, all year round, and especially in summer, there are all sorts of camps and workshops and festivals of dance that allow people from the entire world that urban generation from the world to get together and to share things around the same shared love for dance and their similar approach to the place of the body in the world, so to say. So these local communities of artistic practices actually, and here I caught my colleague from the University of Tilburg in the Netherlands, Jan Blomach. He talks about online, offline communities because actually, of course, internet is very important, but also physical meetings conserve, keep relevant for these people. So they really are the connection between offline and online activities. Recently, there was an example in Belgium and I'm not going to read this in order to show how artistic projects can really help recreate bonds in our society. A very interesting project was developed in Belgium called Refugees for Refugees. Actually, the idea was to put together refugee musicians in Belgium coming from different countries from Iraq, Afghanistan, Tibet, whatever, Syria, etc. And in order to see what they could exchange. You know that this idea that music is universal doesn't mean that all the musicians understand each other very easily, of course. But this project led to a first CD that was unanimously claimed. They started to tour in Belgium and abroad with all the difficulties because some of the musicians had documents in order to travel. And recently they developed a second phase of the project publishing a second CD. And when they launched the CD, the concert was in one of the major venues in Brussels called the Arsentein Belgique. It was sold out. And now this group Refugees for Refugees is going to play in all the summer festivals in the area. And it was quite interesting when you look at the public that go to that concert because you could say, of course, it's only people who are already open and convinced that go to those concerts. But I could see people from many different origins. I could see people from different generations. So it was really a mirror of the diversity of society. Probably they were all open to the issue of integration of refugees before going to the concert. But I mean, still in the period we live, I think it's very important also to show that people do not agree with some of the politics that is offered to us, be it in the UK, in Italy, in Belgium, in Poland, in Hungary, or a new name. There are so many countries where people need to stand up and resist. And I think that arts can give us, this is not a new idea, of course, but I think it's important to underline it. Arts can give us the possibility to show that people together can still try to resist. Now there is the third issue, the issue of cultural policies and local integration policies. The question here is that of the representation of diversity in cultural policies. Do official cultural institutions support, for example, immigrant origin artists? Do local cultural policies become multicultural? Or do they still reproduce a nationalist view of culture? And how do immigrant and ethnicized minority artists mobilize to change cultural policies? And here we have done some studies in different countries and there is a great variety of things happening in different countries. And I think it's important to distinguish at least three levels of discussion. The level of cultural policies in a strict sense, the issue of integration policies, and I don't like the word integration, but I still use it in order to give an idea of what we are talking about. And recently, especially since the terrorist attacks that happened throughout the world and not only in Western Europe, policies to prevent radicalization started to use also artistic tools. In terms of, I will just say a few words about the first discussion, cultural policy, there seems to be a tension that has not been solved between two approaches of cultural policies. The option we could label as cultural democracy opposed to the option of democratization of culture. Well, democratization of culture is an ideal with this idea that there is a high culture which is very often defined within the nationalist project and that this elitist national culture should be spread out to the lower classes. And actually, this is a very common view in France. This is the male role view. Let's bring high culture to the neighbourhood. Let's democratize elitist culture. But on the other hand, there's more and this is important when we talk about ethnicity and migration, the option of developing a cultural democracy is basically is to favour a bottom-up approach and to look at what people do in society, what type of cultural and artistic expression developed from there, try to recognise that as being part of patrimon coma of all the residents in a society and even beyond if we want of mankind. And we are still in this tension today and in different countries in different ways, but I think it's very... Of course, I do... There are not necessarily totally in opposition. I think that for a very long time, as I said before, the option of cultural democracy was impossible because it was considered that there was nothing interesting coming from, I would say, from below, from down there in society and that people would need artistic guides into what is good and what is not good culture. If I turn, because time is also moving very quickly, political mobilisation through the arts. I think, well, we use that typology and it will not go through it, but I think that the issue, the fourth item about identity building and negotiation is very important. I think that whatever the artistic form, I think that creating is always connected to identity construction, but also about identity negotiation. And in those processes, those processes are, I would say, crucial if you really want to create some form of resistance, of protest and maybe really change what is going on. And here also many examples could be taken that really show that here again, I said all the artistic forms are probably music as an advantage because I would say it's more accessible to everybody than artistic forms that maybe need more, I would say, code learning before we being accessible. We did also some work here on the elections, how music was used during electoral campaigns and we published with my colleague Lafleur an article on how the Obama campaign, especially the first one, used music in order to try to get the Latino votes. Using one song that was declined in different local types of music in order to get to different fractions of the Latino voters. You would have the reggaeton song for the East Coast, you would have the mariachi song in the middle of Texas, the North Daniel, the California and Mexico border, but actually it was the same song that was used in order to actually convey the message to the Latino voters that the Obama was the right person to choose. We are not saying, we cannot say that it succeeded because it's almost impossible to prove methodologically, but we at least illustrated how some politicians understand that they can use some artistic forms to convey also their message, and that is the issue of instrumentalization of course, of art. Finally, I will start with this issue of the economy. It relates to the marketing of diversity and also of city branding. I think that it has become a very important issue in many cities. The way the diversity will be marketed by using artistic productions of the place. If I take an example here again from Brussels, last summer there was a festival on hip-hop which took place in Bosa, which is one of the major cultural institutions in Belgium. It's really the place, the monument of the high culture, opening up to hip-hop in Belgium. What is very interesting is that the origin of the project was not in the artistic world, it was the department of tourism of the city of Brussels. It means that this diversity is really transformed in order basically to pursue image and economic goals. The second point we see is that there is a kind of artistic entrepreneurship that develops as a response to discrimination and non-recognition of, for example, ethnicized and racialized artists. What we see in many countries is that these artists don't even apply for funding anymore, anticipating refusal or difficulties in order to fill in many forms, many complex forms and report all the time for what you do. In Belgium there is a kind of status of artists, but in order to get it you have to prove that you have performed something like 200 shows, for example, over a year. Who can do that in a country like Belgium? It's almost impossible. In order to gather around all that, people organize by themselves and develop their small artistic firm in order to continue their work. In the end, this has a kind of positive impact on employment as well. Of course, the other side of the coin is that sometimes the governments are not so tempted to continue to address the issues. I will stop here just by giving the last word to Gerard Mortier, who was an opera director, and a few weeks before he died in 2014, he gave, he released an interview with one of the newspapers in Belgium. Excuse me for maybe the bad translation. One thing he said was that politicians consider artists and intellectuals to be negligible as a decorative framework. If everything went well, we would not need artists, but the great revolutions we face are frightening people. They are fleeing from materialism. So I am at least convinced that this sphere can be filled with art, science and philosophy. Art does not reconcile us with life. It helps us to face better. I think this is really a crucial statement for the development of our multicultural and super diverse society. Thank you for your attention. Thank you, everybody. Thank you, Marco. Despite the smoothness of the stream, if we do a Q&A, it's a little bit cumbersome, because Marco can't hear everything we're saying. So if we do do, we'll do a short Q&A now. Can I ask you to make your questions very concise? I will then need to relay them to Ben, who is then talking to Marco. Can you hear me, Marco? Yes, more or less. OK. Does anybody have any questions they'd like to relay to Marco? Work, yes. Thierry Gourmellin from France. I have a question about your network of research. I would like to know if you are working with a philosopher of sociolog or other thinkers coming from Africa or other countries. Can I just confirm that you're asking Marco about his network of research? Ben, can you pass it on, please? Can I respond now? Yes, we are actually trying to work with colleagues from the parts of the world we are connected with, and we developed a project, and if you are interested, I can circulate the information. A project with our colleagues from Congo. It was about arts in connected cities, actually. So yes, we do work with colleagues from other parts of the world, but I would like to stress that what we want to do is to work on an equal footing. So I'm not interested in being part of these projects about development and so on. When I work with colleagues from other parts of the world, it's colleagues on exactly the same footing. And I would like to revive also an idea that was developed about 25, 30 years ago about reciprocal social sciences. So instead of continuing this idea that we Europeans have the right to study the South and to teach them how to do what they need to do, I would like to have even more scholars from the various places in the South to come to Europe to teach us how to do things and to give us their analysis of our society. So I'm really in favour of developing these reciprocal approaches to the issues of diversity, migration or whatever. And of course it's not that easy because we are still very often caught in this development paradigm, which in my view is not necessarily the best to develop the type of reflections we are trying to develop. OK, do we have any more questions? OK, thank you. OK, please wait for the microphone. Hello, my name is Julie Ward and I'm a member of the European Parliament on the Culture and Education Committee, but I'm also a poet, a theatre maker. And I wanted to ask a question about research because participatory action research is for me a more equal way of working with communities who are often in very difficult challenging situations and equal, don't have access to higher education or research grants. But I do know that the academic community cannot then necessarily give those participants the acknowledgement in the published research. And this was an issue for some people that I knew. So how can we change, how can we change if you like the old system so that the participants in those, because this is people researching their own experiences and their experts of their own experience, but they don't get the acknowledgement that I feel they should get if they participate. Ben, can you just check that Marco understood the question? I think that, well, we do a lot of participatory research and everybody is, of course, accredited. The last example I can give, we are developing a project with a group of undocumented migrants in Liège that have been squatting a public building for two years. They have developed all sorts of artistic activities, including writing workshops that became a theatre plane. And actually a colleague of mine, Elsa Mescoli, was involved in the project and that type of participatory research was presented at an international conference and, of course, the paper, if you want, was signed by the researcher, by also the leader of the undocumented migrants, the leader of the workshops. So we, of course, we pay attention to that. It's very important. However, I also see a risk in what you said, that being that everybody is an expert of his own life and so on, I think we have also to take into account the danger of segmenting and fragmenting knowledge. It was told to me several times in the past that I had no legitimacy to speak about anything else than Italian immigrants in Belgium because I was myself the son of an Italian immigrant. And I think this is, in my view, this is the end of any project for the social sciences. I think everybody should have the right to study and to say anything about any topic and the truth comes by a combination of different point of views. So, you know, we could talk about that probably for all day but there is also the issue of retribution that comes into play. So increasingly people say, well, if you want an interview, you just have to pay because I have the expertise and you have to pay if you want my expertise. We can discuss about that. I understand the logics but I think there are also dangers to that because then, well, we can say that sometimes there are just, you know, a pre-format discourse that it just served against retribution to journalists, to politicians, to administrators and so on just because that's, you know, people respond to what they think is expected from them. So I think you raised a very simple question but that opens up to very complicated discussions and the point of departure is that at least for academics like myself, the idea of the ivory tower and of people who are not connected, who are not crediting the people they work with, it's something that is really strange to me. In all we do, not only we ask, we enlarge the participation but we credit, of course, people who participate in what we construct together. Okay, thank you Marco. I apologise, I'm going to close the Q&A there. If you want to contact Marco, you can obviously contact him through his profile on the ITM website. So just to say that if I could request that now this is finished, that we clear the auditorium quite quickly for two reasons. One, we have a matinee here at 1pm and also sessions are starting in the city at half 11. Before we do, can we just express our thanks to Marco? Thank you Marco.