 Okay, are we on? We are on. Okay. I'd like to welcome everyone to this meeting of the Amherst Design Review Board. My name is Catherine Porter as chair of the Amherst Design Review Board. I call this meeting to order. As noted, we are meeting via zoom. So there will be no in-person contact. The public may weigh in. Through zoom, if they wish. We'll begin with a roll call of the members of the design review board who have been impaneled for the consideration of the items on tonight's agenda. Erica Zico's. Present. Okay. Tom Long. Present. Okay. Catherine Davis and Lindsay Schnarr, who are members of the design review board are not here tonight. Also an attendance is Marine Pollock planner and staff liaison to the design review board. The design review board in this company zoning regulations were created by town meeting in October of 1983. The charge and purpose of the design review board under sections 3.2 of the zoning bylaw is to preserve and enhance the town's cultural, economic and historical resources. By providing for a detailed review of all changes in land use, additional projects such as design review, quality of land for transformers, production of structures, and the appearance of sites, which may affect these resources, design review board exercise. This responsibility by providing design review and recommendations to private applicants and permit granting boards within specific overlays, zoning districts in the town center, was also provided for town departments and permit granting boards with respect to town projects anywhere in Amherst, which will result in substantial alterations to the form or appearance of a structure or site. All design review board meetings are open to the public and are recorded by the town staff. Each meeting will be uploaded to the town of Amherst YouTube channel for public viewing. The procedure is as follows. The petitioner presents the application to the board during the meeting, after which the board will ask questions for clarification or additional information. After the board has completed its questions, the board will deliberate. If the board feels it has enough information and time, it will decide upon recommendations for each respective application. Once the board is voted on its recommendations, staff liaison will type up the recommendation for distribution to the applicant board, applicable land use board and building commissioner. Tonight's agenda will be, okay. We have three applicants. DRB FY 2022-11, Mexicalito Taco Bar. We're going to review the proposed two signs under section 3.20 of the zoning bylaw located at Mexicalito Taco Bar 17 Kellogg Avenue. So do we have, Marine, do we have an applicant here or? Yes, we have Jen Albury, who's president, who's the owner of Mexicalito Taco Bar. Sure, so let's hear from Jen. Sure. Good evening. Sorry. Go ahead. Okay, thank you. So we're proposing to add two signs to the side of 17 Kellogg Avenue. Our big intention with this is just to get a little more visibility from the street as folks walk downtown. Marine, would you like me to share my screen or will you share the- Yeah, that'd be great. Yeah, okay. And Jen earlier emailed me some photos of the existing conditions of the building facades, if you guys wanna see that as a reference. All righty, can everyone see my screen okay? Yes. Perfect. So this is how the building is currently. We are proposing that we put one sign on the previous image and one on the already existing kind of two poles, which I think previous tenants had been using. I could show you what we are proposing. It's basically just our logo in black and white. It matches exactly the text and the font of our awning, for example. And it would be highlighted with a spotlight in the evening so that folks could see it from Main Street. But those would be the two additions that we would like to add. Okay, so where was the other one? I see this one, but where remind me where the other sign is, I can't. And how it's already existing, for example. So this is the second image that I showed. And then sorry, zoom box blocks my arrows here. This is the view from the street. So it would be right here. Okay. We're in the hanging flag. And then this is the existing building. So it's kind of like right where that shadow line is. We're gonna work with Sunrise printing. He's been very good with us and he has given us very good advice. We have not, we have mentioned the project to him, but we haven't confirmed anything 100% with him only because we wanted to come here first and just make sure that we are on the right track for adding a sign in those two places. But you can see the awning here. It has the very similar color and text key, okay. And Jen, would you say that where the proposed wall sign is located, you could see it along the walkway leading back towards North Pleasant Street? That's correct, yeah. And so the idea would be in the little garden we have here have one of the solar panel kind of spotlights that we already have shining on the building just to illuminate the sign. Okay, okay. I've wondered, I certainly like the sign, I like the design. I'm just wondering if a little pop of color, some red on those signs might give them a little more, I don't know, appeal and it may be beyond what you planned or maybe it's a cost factor. I don't know if others feel the same way because black and white is such a good combo, but a little red or green or something like you have when you're awning might add to what you need is some eye catching to attract people there. That's just my thought. Okay, would others like to chime in? We have Erica and Tom. What are you thinking, Tom? Sure, thanks, Catherine. And thanks, Jen, for the presentation. I don't have any problems with the signs as they are in terms of color. I mean, I think for maybe consistency sake, you could drop that red, green and white bar across the bottom as you've done elsewhere. But I think it's pretty minimalist and I'm a minimalist and I'm okay with that. I think one thing I will, a question I did have is you mentioned an uplight here on this particular side of the building. Is there an uplight on the flag sign you have on the street or is that one not illuminated? Not currently, I think the street lighting is much better but I do think that it would be a good idea to add just as that is the intention to be a little more luminous in the evening. And we would totally be open to adding the bottom of the red, green and white, very similar to our awning. I think actually that was the feedback we got originally with our awning and to keep and maintain style that absolutely works. Yeah, I mean, I feel like I would probably see along the street if there was enough light there because I don't know if I'd wanna drop another light on the street. That seems to me to be a little bit more invasive just because there's neighbors and there's, I don't know, it just, it feels like a different kind of sign. I'm open to others in the group, they had their feedback as well. I'm okay with the lighting, uplighting on the other side though. Cause I feel like it's gonna hit the wall whereas I feel like if you're uplighting this, a lot of it's gonna blow past the wall and I kind of have concerns about that. So I'd rather see if this works. If it doesn't work, come back and talk about whether or not we need some lights on that. Thank you. Okay, absolutely. Thank you. Erica. Sorry, trying to unmute. Thanks, Jen. I think the signs are great. I'm glad to remember actually that we asked you about this particular location that you're showing out in your original proposal. And I think it's great that you're bringing a sign there. The other one, I'm just remembering correctly that there's one immediately around the corner. Yes, that's absolutely correct. And that one does also have the red, white, and green similar to the awning. Okay, I guess there what I would love to see is an alignment either that the tops of the signs are the same as you turn the corner or the bottom of the long skinny sign on the south side of the building aligns with the top of the sign that we're looking at here. And I think you had another photograph that showed the other face, right? So you can imagine how one would have both of these signs in their perspective at some point and it would be nice to see them coordinated in alignment. Perfect. I agree. Yeah, I'm wondering if that sign is really high enough. I'm sure you must have gone out on the street and looked down to see if it's at the level that most people would be looking or do you think it would be? Yeah, we kind of gauged it off of the already existing poles. So these two poles here from the street have very good view. Yeah, okay, okay. And the other one too, the other one on the front. Oh yeah, yeah. You're comfortable with that. This one will be high enough. Yes. Okay, so that people will look down. Okay, okay. Well, I think you have very handsome signs and most signs look like they will just add to the building. It doesn't look like you're over signed. And so... I have a clarifying question based on Erica's comments. So Erica, if I'm understanding you correctly, did you want the sort of the design of the sign of the proposed and existing to be consistent or like the elevation of the two signs? Yeah, right. I think the ladder, I guess what I'm imagining is that the top of the sign on the south side of the building would serve as a guide for the location of the top of the new sign that's being proposed. Could we get this image side by side with where you have your proposed sign? If you could, I guess open another window. Because I'm wondering if the existing sign should be lower. Yeah, I think what Erica said though is just to understand at this existing sign on the side, be at the same height as... Yeah, absolutely. That is not how it comes in the proposal, but that is absolutely a good piece of advice so that everything is kind of on the same level. I think also I'll have to double check but the existing kind of rods that are on the other side of the building, I believe that they're at the same height. So everything would be in a similar, like here. Look good, that'd be good. Anything else? Just here. Anything else from the board? So it seems like we're in agreement with a few, offering a few suggestions about the lighting and the height of the sign. Is that correct? Did I get, is that right, Maureen? Yeah, so if I can read everyone correctly is everyone like that the wall sign will be illuminated and that the wall sign will be at the same elevation height as the existing wall sign. And a suggestion about adding the Mexican flag, the color bar at the bottom of the wall sign. Yeah, if she's inclined. And in the future, if you realize that the blade or flag sign does need lighting in the future, then you would need to come back to the board but at this time it feels like maybe lighting isn't needed for the flag sign. Okay, good. All right, do I hear a motion to that effect? So move. Second, Erica, okay. All in favor, raise your hands. Okay, very good. All right, Jen, thank you very much. Thank you so much for your time. I appreciate it. All right, so what do we have next here? Okay, so next up, let's see here. We have David Groff from CAIA Association. So let me just pull him, make him a panelist. So just one moment. And I did take a photograph from while I was getting coffee across the street from Amherst Coffee. So if you guys need a refresher of what it looks like currently. Hi, David, if you could introduce yourself and show and explain your proposal. Certainly, thanks for the time. I appreciate that. We're very excited to be in downtown. We have been five years watching. We started in downtown apparently back in 2003. We are our association spun out of the Eisenberg School of Business 20 years ago and we are still in existence. We're an educational nonprofit which teach people's good ethics about some alternative investments. It's kind of a niche field but we are a global accreditation. So we've been on University Drive for the last five years or at least as up and we needed a smaller space. I am the IT director. So I was elected and a leader, an executive leader too in the company because we're much a digital company. And we're global offices in Geneva, Hong Kong, real good presence and we are very proud to represent Amherst. We really belong in downtown Boston or in New York City but we won't leave our footsteps of the flagship of US. I did graduate there many years ago, about 40 years ago as an engineer and I'm proud of that and it's kind of fun to come full circle back home again. So we are now taking tenancy into the bank building that is in downtown. Amherst works is closing or has closed and we would like to assume our signage on the building so people can recognize who we are and that we are there and participate in the town festivities. We talked to the BID, we sponsored some of your merry maples, we're ready to engage all the local vendors. One of the things we did do which is very special is we hired every local vendor that Amherst works did and we're gonna do the same idea. We really wanna promote Amherst 100% so that's part of it and this location you can't beat it in the patio and everything else. So we've talked to Barry and other people and loaning out the patio for some of your festivities on Thursday nights, we're totally engaged in doing that. We've changed our employee footprint so we used to be 35 people strong in Western Mass but we're hiring talent throughout the United States and frankly the world. So we have about 20 local commuters and a 50 mile radius that we may commute from this hybrid situation we're moving into trying to figure it out what we can do but certainly to get our signs out to show that we are downtown that is our main goal and we're happy to be there and I've been there for many hours over the last couple of weeks getting ready to roll this out. So it's pretty exciting to see the foot traffic that we don't see when we're tucked into the back corner of University Drive. So I have images if you want me to show. Yeah. Sure. Okay, so let's do your screen. So I'm the IT director, right? So I'm supposed to know everything so I'll just I'll just call you out on that. So let's do, let's do which screen? Let's do screen three. So let's do this one. Yeah, okay. So we are just simply putting our logo and branding right on top of the same signs that Amherst works has. No changes. We have a fancy logo, our name is a mouthful. It's C-A-I-A but it does stand for a very long name that confuses many people and it's Chartered Alternative Investment Analyst Association. So we knew if we just put our logo up that wouldn't do any good. So we want to at least people know we're an association we're a nonprofit organization that sets the global standard on alternative investments. And so what we administer an exam twice a year and it's the two level process. And it really teach people about ethics dealing with investments and things. It's not stocks and bonds it's some of the other things involved but we have a few professors on our payroll out of UMass still that consult and we're happy to keep them on board and we're glad they are because they are our founders our founding they're still on part of our staff. So simply putting our, and so we call it CAIA is the way we say it short. So we put our CAIA logo with the word association right on top of the emmerced or replace the emmerced works sign. There also is a sign over that what used to be the ATM entrance of the bank. There is one on Main Street and then there's a standup monument that has four sides on it that say emmerced works today so we would simply replace it with our logo and our association. We have marketing standards we go by so we don't for branding rules and things so we try to keep them intact. If to give you better perspective I can actually show you this is where it is now. So if you drive by you'll see this is the ATM so we'll simply replace this with our CAIA association and this large sign here. There is no illumination on the sign, meaning backlight. It's gonna be all from the existing spotlights is a spotlight here. And I think there's one over in this kiosk right there. There's the spotlight. There is a side entrance from Main Street and I can show you that here and it's kind of hidden by the trees and that would be similar signage. So there's four places that we would propose our association name. Okay. The color is it black? Yeah. Yeah, if you look at our website, let me use our website. We are on two years in. So we are, yes, we are black and orange. That is our logo that is out there. We give out what it looks like chart while they're charter documents kind of like diplomas that once they're chartered, you can use the CAIA accreditation after your name. And that tells people that you've passed with the marks of our global standards. Okay. All right. Okay. Let's go back to the, so the very front door of the building, are you going to, is that gonna be closed like it is now? And will you put signs on that like they did before? Or are you people gonna access through the front door? Our intention is to keep the patio locked and it has a padlock. Employees will enter through what was the ATM door. And customer and anybody who wants to visit you would go through that same door, right? Yeah, that's correct. And it remains locked. I'm also in turn to security and it's all badged now. So in a box all the time, we have a doorbell. So no stray people can kind of walk in. We're not used to the foot traffic. So we know keeping it locked all the times. But we've talked to people as they, we kind of come and go. A lot of people are curious about us. You know, Emerson Works has closed and they just are curious. And we do have some kind of freestanding signs that you can see through the glass just to show our logo is there. So we didn't want to confuse some of the Emerson Works people. We had a few people kind of wander in while we were kind of prop the door open looking to. Yeah, okay, sure, okay. Also, when Emerson Works came, they proposed the signage in the two places that you're replacing it. And then that on the side, they ended up putting this big banner. And I don't know, Maureen, we didn't give any support for that. It didn't look bad, but if they, if this group would want to put anything more on the outside of the building, would that have to come back to the design review board? You see? Unless it's temporary, meaning that it's three weeks. They never got permission for that. It didn't look bad, but it never came, okay. Not just thinking about the bigger pattern. I thought we had it taken down. We took it down. Yeah, okay. It wouldn't represent you, but you might want to feel wild and crazy and put something else up. Well, you'd have to come back. Yeah, I'm going to say unlikely. I know the staff and I know how much effort it takes to go through some things. And we've got plenty of work on our own side. Yeah, that's right. Okay, so let's hear from Erica and Tom. Any thoughts that you want to pass on? I'll be very brief. I think that it's a, thank you for a thorough walkthrough. And it's also so nice to know a little bit about the organization. Tom's the typography guy. So I'm going to let him weigh in. I'm just going to say that I think it's clean and readable and I like it. And I'm glad to see the blue vinyls go away from the doors. I think that that will be a nice re-positioning of the building facades. Thank you. Yeah. Although I liked the blue for the sign, but I agree. I didn't like the front door with the blue pale. Okay, Tom. Sure. Yeah. My typography comment would be, there's not much you could do because you're stuck with this terrible sign. It is impossible to do anything that horizontal. Even Amherst works look terrible because it was, there's too much sign and too long. So, but I think, I think this does a good job of setting a boundary and setting an edge. And I think you're right. If you just had CAIA or CAIA right in the middle of that, it would look like it was floating in space. So we're having association is doing a lot of work here to spread that out. So I think, I think it's fine. I have no problems with it. And again, it's part of your brand standard. So I'm sure it's not something that we can argue with either way. And same goes for the monument sign. I think that seems appropriate as well. So yeah, so no concerns with these and appreciate your presentation and all the information. Okay, very good. Okay, do I hear, then it looks like we're in total agreement. Do I hear a motion that we approve this petition for change in signage? The move's Erica, Tom. Second. Okay, I approve. So all in favor, raise your hand. Okay. All right, that was easy. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. We're looking forward to being part of the downtown. Sure. Well, you're right there. Yeah, we are. That's the one. Take it any closer. Thank you very much. Okay, never happy holiday. Yes, thank you. You too. I know. Okay. So next we have Jay Parillo, who is representing back base sign, who is the fabricator, I believe, for making the signs for insomnia cookies located at 30 Main Street. Good evening. Okay. Hello. Hello. Yes. We are the installation company for this sign. So this is the insomnia cookies location and they are seeking to upgrade their existing signage. So the main part, main sign is to replace the existing sign band with a new sign that is a low profile, very thin cabinet that has pushed through lettering. And the purpose of that is so that only the logo and the lettering illuminates, so this is not a backlit sign. The sign band would also be repainted that purple color. And the rest of the package includes some window graphics and some window signs, very similar to what is there now. So this is basically just an upgrade of the existing location. So you're gonna show it to us? I am not seeing a screen share option on my Zoom. To be in the bottom center and green, the icon. Okay, here we go. And then you can just, so as long as your document is open and when you click share screen, click share, oh, share screen, or if it'll maybe give you a preview of that document open. I can also share my screen as well. Yeah, I'm having trouble. No, that's fine, that's fine. Give me one second. Thank you, I appreciate it. One second. You know what? I didn't have yours. I had your application saved easily. I know I have it, so just get ready. I can email to you. I can share if you'd like, Marie. Sure, that'd be great actually. Sorry about that. There we go. Am I sharing the right document? Okay. Oh, there you go. Can you just let me know what you'd like to be on? Sure, yeah. So what you're showing right now is the change of the sign band, which is not changing the size of the sign band. In fact, the new sign is actually a tiny bit smaller because this sign isn't gonna be as wide as the existing sign. So this is using the existing sign band. This is a sign cabinet that is mounted to that. And on the last page of the package, it shows the construction of that, which right there, I'm sorry, second to last page. Right there, so this shows the sign cabinet, which is three, five eighths, which is deep. And the letters are pushed through the aluminum so that only the lettering and the logo illuminate. Okay, so okay. Could you talk a little bit about the vinyls as well? Yeah, and if you scroll up, it shows the layouts for the graphics. We have on the left window, warm cookies delivered. We have the logos mounted to either side of the door. And then there's also this striping, which will be up against the window. That is not gonna look as strong as it does on that simulation. What's the purpose of that striping? It's just a branding thing that they've done at all their other locations. It's like warm cookies. That's supposed to remind you of warm cookies. I guess, yeah. Okay. So maybe maybe work for somebody. Okay. And then if you scroll down to the next page, there are proposed two window signs that are mounted on the inside of the store. One of them is just gonna replace the existing open sign over the left window. And then on the right window, there's another proposed sign that says you up, which I believe the store is gonna be open till 11 p.m. So this is just to remind people that they are open late for late night snacks. It doesn't seem, I mean, our business, that doesn't seem too late for Amherst. I mean, two o'clock, two p, two a.m. Okay, so any suggestions or thoughts from the board? It doesn't look like a radical difference except those little stripey things. Yeah, no, I mean, I think the package is pretty elegant. I mean, I think the knockout or punch through typography and logo is gonna look super sharp. I like how that's gonna throw light just to those items and not out into the street, which is great. I'm not sure about those little warm fuzzies, but if that's part of the brand package, I'd be interested to know if those are solid white vinyl or if they're a little translucent or whether they're on the inside or the outside of the glass. The package says that it's a 3M printed graphic, but if you would prefer that they have some transparency I can certainly make sure that happens. Well, I think, because I think it's just based on the fact that you said they weren't, they probably wouldn't present quite so bright and I've done mock-ups like this before, but I feel like it'd be pretty cool if they were. I mean, I don't mind them how they are. I just think it might be a better option for them for people to see into the store if they had a little bit of translucency. So it's just a, I would say it's a soft recommendation. Sure, absolutely. I actually, I really like the idea of making them a little softer. I find them to be bizarre. And there's a lot of signage going on between the neon and the window graphics. And I think that for the most part, it's, I mean, it's a kind of cool hip spot, it's purple in a sea of brick. It does its job, but I think that those squiggles, I like the idea of them being translucent. Are they on those little wavy things? They're on two windows, right? Are they on three? Are they on the end here? Yes, yeah, it'd be three. Yeah, that's right. Okay, three, yeah. Well, that's what they do. That's what they do is a lot of squiggles. I think they'd be more steamy. Yeah, I agree. I mean, I didn't see it as steam. Okay, now it's steam. I mean, the materials are out there. It's still cut vinyl and from a cost perspective, I don't think it's gonna blow the top off their budget. So I think it would be a recommendation to stuff. Because I mean, it's the only thing I see right now. I think a lot of people are gonna see that. It's so distracting. It's really distracting. And for something that low on the street, it's gonna be at eye level for a lot of people. I'd like to see it softer. Yeah, I think if it were a simpler facade, like a long, simple storefront, it might work really well, but there's just a lot of architecture going on here. Yeah, a lot of signage, lots of different displays. And some of them I really like. I mean, I think the U-up, I think that's cute. I think it's fun. It's not huge. It feels like the right idea. I'm totally fine with that. Which is probably the most obnoxious thing there. And that feels okay, but those squiggles are really driving me nuts. Just, I think we're gonna hear about them if we don't say something. Sure. Yeah, yeah. Or you could put a sign with an arrow pointing down to them saying steaming cookies or some people wonder if they're, nevermind. Okay, are there any other comments or suggestions for this proposal? All right, Maureen, you have more, okay. So it seems like our basic suggestion would be to perhaps adjust those wavy's to make them lighter and more transparent. Okay. All right. Okay, do I have a motion to approve the proposed changes? So moved. Okay. Proved changes. Okay. Catherine, yes. Okay. So all in favor, raise your hand. There's three of us. Okay. All right. Great. Thank you very much. You're welcome. Thank you. Good. I'm good. Good luck. Thank you. So Maureen, do we have any public comments? Anybody from the public? No, no, unfortunately, no members of the public this evening. Nobody wanted to hear about all this. Okay. Anything else? And I actually had the meeting minutes done for November 2nd or 9th, whenever that, the 2nd. But I forgot to email him to you, so. All right. Okay. So you think we've done our good deed for the- I think we have. Your purpose. Okay. All right. Then I suggest that we adjourn the meeting unless there's somebody who wants to stay longer and talk about- I second that. Okay. Me too. All right. Paul doesn't have enough meeting. All right, guys. Have a great holidays, everybody. You as well. See you guys. Thanks, everyone.