 So thank you very much that so many people, ladies and gentlemen, like to listen to our talk about Automobile as massive data gathering source and the consequences for individual and privacy. We this are Rüdiger Hanisch and Jimmy Schultz the president of load the an association for net politics Yeah, well How often do you sign? Privacy terms on the Internet if you sign up to a new service buy something on the Internet you always have to Accept privacy terms, but did you ever do that driving a car? renting a car using car sharing models I've never heard of that but Always there is a lot of data gathered in a car The CEO of VW mr. Winterkorn said Your cars data are mine So what's the hell is yours Carter yours cars data what he is talking about and Who controls the data of whom he's saying? This data is mine With this words the starting point for us to think a little bit more about this issue and We will show you a few slides today where we want to have a Short look into the control systems and interfaces of your car Where we will present you some stakeholders around the car Then do we have again a data retention issue and last but not least is there any help or it's Yeah, if there any help Okay, first of all your car does have a data interface Most of the modern cars built after 2000 to have an OBD to interface where you can read Data collected by your car The technical units and standards are the ECU engine control unit the OBD to on board Diagnostic a standard to the canvas controlled area network and for example on board navigation All data being measurable by sensors and actuators In granularity length and structure For example thresholds depending on the size of the memory of the car Simple data for example the speed fuel level GPS coordinates acceleration and RPM the rounds per minute of the motor of the engine The deducted data could be for example fuel consumption the average pace and for example, if you have connected it to an Navigational system speeding because the navigation system knows where you are knows if you are within a city limit And you drive more than for example in Germany 50 kilometers an hour Of course you are speeding in most on most of the roads Other data which is Can be collected in a car for example cell information if you have E-call the system which will be implemented in the next couple of years and new cars dash camps parking cams and others and There's no ownership on the data who owns that data and Might be ownership by database structures, but it's not regulated who owns the data yet There might be a tax on that data for example You can connect the OBD to interface by cable connection for example your garage will do so The automobile association will do so if they help you will connect a wire cable to your Interface to the car and read out the car information and data You also you can do that only if you have physical access to the interior of the car But there are other interfaces which can be connected to the OBD to interface which are wireless for example Wi-Fi or Bluetooth Which can be easily accessed by everyone being in the surrounding of your car I do have a for example an OBD to interface in my car Which is not encrypted because it doesn't offer any encryption So everyone within the range of a couple of meters with my car can read the complete data of my car Which is easy to hack of course So let us have a look to the stakeholders of your cars and this is an incomplete example And this example is even not complete because we have no trucks in it We have no farming machines all these systems are gathering data and sending data about you Let's take the first example we have Who's the of ownership and driver when you are in a family and you are one person or you are one person? Then it's might be easy. You are the owner of a car You might be the owner of the car and you might be the driver of the car and then you have the full control But even if you give your car to your partner Who's driving with the car? Who has to get the information? about the last Right We've done by the car so There could be some discrepancies could be interesting. Okay, if you have a smartphone We know you we can also find where you are and where you are But even with the car this is possible now The next Interest is here Okay The next stakeholder who is interested in the car is the leasing company most company cars are leased and Mold and a lot of private cars are leased if you are driving To a car dealer with your private car And you want to buy a new car to lease a new car and you prefer a full service leasing And you are coming up Coming to the dealer with Loud machine loud engine There's a way Then you might know The price you have to pay for the leasing rate will increase because the way how you drive has a deep impact about the costs for the cars and the cost of the maintenance and so on therefore The lease company is very interested in how you are driving the car The next stakeholder could be no governmental stakeholders could be in the governmental stakeholder For example, if you use your private car For some business trips and you want to get some kickbacks like back So you have to plot and to write or go down in a small booklet Where you were How long you stay there what and what are the kilometers and so on this could also be done By the car and the tax office is interested in and especially it's interested in that is done automatically so next one It's a German speciality that some parts of the wages are paid by a Business car which you can use for For private reasons also so therefore you have the same issue with tax office and Private usage as before Private usage is plotted. It's not plotted the data the data for the business use is plotted or There are other there are other services done with the car for example fleet cars if you are a technician and You have to drive to a customer And you have no own car you take a fleet car or out of a pool of cars and if you are for example Somebody of an airline who has to travel home. They have also fleet cars which can be used frequently There's some mixture between a car sharing and rental car from it from the Then there are other stakeholders car sharing and car rental Several years ago There was a message in a German newspaper about a car rental company in US which Asked for special payments the driver asked the driver for special payments because he was too fast Because he has signed a document that he has to keep the speed limits and in Germany There were some news about this in the newspapers Car sharing If you are have a car to go and so on the cars has to be picked up at the end and to be transported To a place where it could be rented again or where you can find it So the car will give the information about the place Where the car is at the moment and also the level of the fuel in the car Then We have the assistance these systems brand garras. I will take this these points later on But we also have the police For example, you have an accident Will your car be a witness against you and saying the police and Your counterpart in the accident maybe that you were too fast Well Do you have a chance to say no, I'm not accepting that my car gives the data to the police or If we think about the equal Which data are sent To the cultural center Okay, it's clear that in the minimal sentence data sentence. There are Positioning information and also a call will try to build up To check whether there are people injured or whether it was only a small accident or something else But So the control center could be interested To estimate the damage Hospital could also be interested maybe by the sensors of the For the protection systems they are knowing whether the seats whether says somebody on the seat or not And then you have maybe an accident where you can see that the car Was is heavily broken and four places were seated and then it's an information for the hospital So they could be interested in Last but not least with the data the police is collecting the court the lawyer that even the lawyer of the other of your Partner in the accident could be interested in what was a real accident. We have The situation or if you are talking about witness you know and even if you were in an accident You know five minutes later. You see the accident in a different way as ten hours later Is one week later and so on and it's not because You are You want to shift or to change the past, but it's because you remember in a different way Therefore people think that the data and the car are more correct than you are and they trust more in the data of the car Whether that's true or not So then we have surveyors Which want to check when there was an accident whether something was before Whether this damage is really the damage of this accident and not the accident before and last but not least the insurance company who has to Adjust the claims of an accident. For example on the other hand Insurance companies are also interested not to not That accidents are not happening too often and therefore They have they are interested in that people are Driving in a way that they are not creating risks So therefore they are offering now Systems where you have to pay less if you drive in a In a less risky way You know, there is a stick you can put on the canvas this is offered firm. I think Generally and And you are the way of your driving is analyzed then and If you and the insurance is then less, okay Then let's come to the next slide Yeah, well Well insurance companies are of course interested in this data mileage for example to evaluate the price of your insurance But our stakeholders we already mentioned CEO Volkswagen Mr. Winterkorn and he earlier this year said We don't accept that the data of our customers trickle somewhere else And he also said this data belongs to us as you already heard So the VDA the German Association of automobile manufacturers Release some principles a month ago about how to deal with this data They differentiate between Correlated data for example mileage which is important of course for maintenance reasons and technical reasons personal data related data for example as address and Which should be under the control of the driver for example the usage The gas usage for example and The third is assistance and for my assistance and infotainment data which must be erasable Because well who is interested in what music did you hear the car manufacturers are not so these are the principles and the differentiation about the three kinds of data which is collected in our car Okay service So and we were thinking there's one stakeholder saying the data are mine The data is mine, and there are other stake so does as we have presented before and we said okay. Let's have a Try let's ask them what they think about whom belongs to whom belong the data we have sent we have requested 41 companies and Stakeholders also When you see we got after the second time we have asked we got a feedback of 17 they have answered okay if I would ask you at private people I have a feedback Let me say of two three four percent This our organization. They have normally CRM systems and so on therefore The feedback is not really high and when I'm looking on the answers at the end We had seven answers where there was some content in it Some answers were often the way that they said for example insurance company We are thinking about and we will communicate our ideas by our own Others are saying oh the questions are going too deep into our company policy and therefore We will not tell you something This was a car rental company having been paid more than 50,000 euro in 2012 by plotting high-value high-value car And From other companies there were no answer Norven on an email not answering is also a statement isn't it? And some were writing this is under the discussion. We are not quite sure and so on There are only a few answering more precise and from the few which were answering more precisely Are the one this is the assistant and automobile? Associations a little bit to show what is the business if you drive with a car and the car is breaking down when you are driving somewhere you have a issue a challenge and Normally, therefore you are you are a member of adrc FOM I'm foul or other road systems Companies And what are these companies doing they try to mobilize you that you can travel again The optimal solution that you could that you can drive again with your own car so What are they doing? They are doing small repairs on the road or if this is not possible they are transporting your car to the garage or to a garage and Sometimes if the Repair is Big then they offering you Replacement vehicle So in the past it was easy you can put on a new wheel you could change some parts of the engine But now you need something more you need car related data from the engine You need maybe some as you need the male functions Via the systems you have to change something you need Data how to change some parameters in the engine and you have to have the right to access This data and to change these data data and Therefore they are asking the car manufacturer for open interfaces explicitly Yeah, if they are not getting this interfaces, then they are coming they are say, okay, this is a fort This isn't BMW. This is a Daimler. This is a VW. We have no access rights We can offer you a replacement car and we bring your car to your car to the garage And this is not a nice business. It's a little bit expensive Therefore the system and automobile Association companies are asking for open enterprises interfaces, sorry Maybe it's not so Difficult or so worse because mobility warranties from some car suppliers are managed by Assistance company Together with car rental companies, but sometimes it could be more heavy. It's not in business for eternal So this works one business type and the other who has answered other garage and car dealers What is the business of a garage and car dealer? The business is to repair cars to maintain cars and to manage the warranties Therefore the activities are the same and what do they need they need car related data. They need the male functions They need also some personal data. For example, whether you you are your Warranty is still valid and so on or your warranty is Covering the mileage and so on And then need also the access rights to change the data So and there are two groups of car dealer and Garage one are linked to the brands and the others are not linked to the brands and If they don't get an interoperable Standardized secured and open access platform They come with the garages not Related to the car Manufacturers have a problem in doing their business In the past It was also not every time very easy. For example, I was when I was young I was driving a Renault and the Renault I had a problem with the brackets and for the brackets you need special Special parts to handle this and for this special parts there is an industry delivering oral garage these parts But this is quite a little bit different if you have if you have only electronic Special parts that we say it in those words Or for another example if you if there is no electricity in your car, you have to restart and the security Environments in your car you need some data belonging to the key environment which Um Garage can get key data of VW of your Audi or maybe of your Daimler Is there every country in Europe or in the world of the same level to get those data? That's a question Okay so after hearing that are we facing a new dawn of Data retention within the car We have to answer a couple of questions What data is stored car related data for example mileage malfunctions speed, etc Personal related data location times and dates And even more personal data for example your phone calls if you connect your phone or have an built-in Cell phone in the car the address book if you sync it with your smartphone for example But music titles you listen to Have you ever entered? Have you ever rented a car a modern car and just looked into the board computer and Okay, you know from the navigation system which destinations The user Before that drove to That's one thing but most of the people use for example in rental cars or in car sharing cars the built-in a phone Sync their phone books you see who they called you see the addresses if you If you haven't erased the data afterwards so And who else has access to the data for example another user of your car or for rental car Unless you control the data everyone has access who has access to the car to your car you used your garage has access to the data The car manufacturer the open automobile association if they help you mobile devices and all apps and you carry around with you and especially specific car apps for example mini offers a special app for iPhone for example they can control all the data within the car and Exchange and sync data if you don't erase it on the car who has else access to that car and Who has access to the data that is gathered by your smartphone? the app manufacturer Google Microsoft Apple and Another interesting question is where is the data stored in the car? With unknown duration and structure And there is a tendency because memory gets cheaper and cheaper that and more services for better problem-solving Coming to the market that more and precise data with a longer duration is stored in within your car The computer centers of your car manufacturer Stored that car related data service related data person related data And also here the tendency to use cloud services always on services and more services covering car life cycle and Also the same here more and more precise data and longer duration of storage Your garage will store car related data service related data and personal related data and here the tendency but to use cloud services always on services and More services covering driver life cycle a driving life cycles and more precise data and longer duration of the storage of the data and fourth and the computer centers of the companies like Google Microsoft Apple by using your smartphone connected to your car and Here's the tendency to have a big data relation and that's even more worrying that They collect these data more precise data and use that to relate those collected data But nothing is without awareness and you are showing me that the awareness is coming up It's really important for us to discuss what it's happening there and what has to be done also from the political point of view Awareness is one point Which is very important and it shows that the room is more than overcrowded But there's a lot of awareness here in the room, but we have to get it outside what we think is even Also very important is that all the interfaces your car uses are open Standards and open interfaces. So you are able to control which data is Well, get a gut out of your car and you also have access to the data yourself You are in control of the interfaces and therefore they have to be open So and the other thing is we think it's a car is something like a part of your home and therefore all data should be encrypted starting in the car and you should have the key of Opening the data to somebody else or to keep it closed Another important thing is transparency You should know where the data is stored what data is stored how long it's stored and who has access to it and Even more important is you shouldn't gather this information This transparency information from all different different sources. There should be one single point of information where you can Look where what is happening to my data from my car and Last but not least we need Data privacy declaration and simple speech that everybody who is able to drive a car is also able to understand What she or he is signing? Yeah, what's well something we should have in other places too. Okay. Thank you very much. Yeah, thanks We hope you had fun and Thank you very much before we take 10 minutes of Q&A. There is a small There is a small crowd management issue here After the Q&A May I kindly ask you to leave the room through this entrance down here? Not up there because other people are waiting already. So please leave through this door not through this door and Before starting hello, yeah, and The first ones to leave please all the people sitting in the ales and And remember we will have 10 minutes of Q&A. So those of you who are interested Just stay here and line up behind the microphones No, but now we let The people leave who perhaps need to go for the next one Just a two minute break Thank you very much for your patience the people who are leaving now are on the way to the next talk And we have 10 minutes of Q&A just give them two or three minutes Should we start with some questions from the internet while people leaving the room? Could the door angels, please tell the people waiting outside that we will be having Maximum 10 minutes of Q&A and then the entrance starts. I Know I know I know the schedule is a little bit flexible it is and May I ask the people lining up for Q&A? Ask short question and expect short answers. We have only a maximum an absolute maximum of 10 minutes, okay? Okay, let's start question one Okay Micro is it on the turn on okay? I've got two quite brief questions first one is big up loud and eat the microphone eat the microphone, okay? the first one is As far as I know the whole functionality of obd2 is only available via wired Connection how Good is the functionality of Bluetooth or Wi-Fi connection and secondly How easy or is it possible with standard obd? Diagnose tools for service technician to manipulate these data in the car. Thank you Okay, the interface for obd2 can be wired can be wireless Wi-Fi or Bluetooth Of course service technicians must be able to alter the data and the car for example to erase error codes after having well Repair the car. So of course you have to be able to alter the data and of course you might have heard about that that roundabout 30% of all used cars sold in Europe Have not the exact mileage they had sure well they really have so of course there are means to alter the data question to Yeah question this For example electric cars and Nissan Leaf they do ask you whether you want to send data to Nissan However, if you don't accept it, it will not Use the navigator I think it still sends a point of Where you where you are parking the car because the Nissan system is sending email if you haven't plucked the car in The other thing is that many Nissan Leaf owners have are using a Bluetooth based ODB reader Mostly because they're using an application got called a leaf spy, which is logging all the data Locations and whatever So a pretty good idea that you can get just about anything out of those cars which have this ODB reader blocked in when when when the owner leaves it leaves the car parked Was that what was the question? I'm just curious. Have you looked at the Nissan Leaf on all these newer cars because they they actually are quite the verbose Especially the Tesla Tesla. I think that's a very open Yeah, all right. Can we have the next and last question? I know One more and then we have to stop sorry in order not to completely sabotage our schedule Okay, short question with regard to the organization load. Is there any kind of collaboration with Automotive makers OEMs Suppliers and so on if we are connected with any cars manufacturers in any way. No, we're not Political organization and geo is an interest or not even that There is an interest making liberal internet politics. That's the motivation we have Okay, thank you very very much