 That just had the dark unfiltered and uncensored talk from young alumni of historically black colleges and universities. Thank you for joining us on the Howard University Radio Network series 142 HBC Radio. Joining us tonight or is the Morganite and Tiff perhaps perhaps perhaps not getting thrown off the show. A lot of things to get into tonight. We are on the heels of HBC week and this was a big deal because not just the scope and scale of the conference itself but this was the first time in several years over the course of two administrations that the president made remarks. So we had Donald Trump to bring remarks to the conference and attendees. If you look at the coverage and you look at some of the footage of it people were there but they weren't there for it if you get my drift. Very little applause, very little feedback, no booing or anything like that but I think that the crowd made a statement of this pleasure with his presence there. His remarks itself were to be expected scripted testament to the history of HBC use the value of their contributions to the country and the breaking news out of that were or was remarks on saying we're going to roll back some regulations on loans that are available to HBC use that typically had not been available to private faith-based schools. We're going to roll those back so now you can have some access to capital funding and then some some fallout from that particularly from dealer president Walter Kimbrough but first let's get you two on the record to give your thoughts on particularly the president's remarks is that was the most front-facing part of the conference and then the idea of this this annual convening and actually what it produces for the sector overall. Tiffany. Oh why or is can't go for it because first of all you are an HBC ambassador as a student so shockingly you were not in attendance at your conference perhaps you were not there because Omarosa was not present so you're boycotting but you still are aligned with the White House HBC All Stars program so we will defer to you as a as an All Star alumna. First of all I would like to say you have a wild imagination that's why I would like to say that the program that I was part of does not exist anymore okay maybe you can link my article in the post somewhere below we'll see about that. That article is years old will not be reservist unlike David Wilson who links the articles from three years ago we will not be doing that. Black bomb, black bomb, black bomb, black bomb. My hits okay we can run my hits. What did you think about the conference this year specifically about Trump's remarks? I actually was working at my HBCU because I am employed by one and I wasn't there and to my understanding nobody else from my institution was there. I would not present. We were working for the students of the Commonwealth. So I actually did not have time to watch the remarks I'm glad I didn't because having to read the transcript was tough because I could still hear and see him in my mind's eye and that was like troubling for me but it was really basic and like when you have the opportunity to have talked with the people that work with the initiative and the opportunity that the opportunity to converse with the people who are the liaison to the initiative from the White House it literally is basic. He think he think uh Jaron. Jaron. Well yeah I knew that because apostrophe. You okay? You're right. Jaron who's a fellow Howard alum. He thanked him but it's like okay what and else. He shouted out people who are on the president's board of advisors okay and what else. The people that made it possible for the initiative from 2017 to be a thing okay and what else. Okay so the new thing was the uh the faith-based situation but all all I thought about when I like read that new quote new thing was what about all the other things or all the other forms of funding and contracts that we technically have equitable access to do we actually get those I don't know that was not I don't know we complain about not getting enough funding or federal contracts even though they're technically made available to us so is this just going to be part of more lip service to the community or no I don't know yet I would like to think that it's going to be more than lip service but again well they got a record so far I mean it's hard when and we've been talking about this we've been writing it it is hard to reconcile Trump and his rhetoric and then the actual deliverables of the administration so I think the tension is good though because that that helps you to keep track and keep in check what your resistance looks like and what he says on the daily versus what his policy does because you you really can't let it slide so like right you can't let you can't let some of the things that he says slide but then when you try to say okay well here's a credible we have to credibly say yes this happened and it helps our schools nobody wants to hear that so it's not it's not the point about being a Trump fan it's it's about it's about being honest on both targets of this of this conversation yes but again shout out to people like Niles yeah yeah who are always going to say hey no uh no that's not enough because he did XYZ like that's that's not enough y'all gonna stop trying to defend this man just because he did XYZ and I I do think that tension is good we need that to preserve ourselves for the record well where's what did you think about the remarks and I guess the the results in coverage I mean I thought his remarks were were on point with what something that pair of Gennard or or someone else from TMCF wrote for him I think he definitely got some feedback from UNCF and TMCF before he spoke I think whoever's in his black circle definitely gave him some things to highlight and he did that which is what he's supposed to do I thought the initiative and not the initiative but kind of missing the band with the way that funding is received by faith-based institutions I think is going to be beneficial if it you know plays out the way that it's supposed to but overall I mean I was unimpressed I mean I'm always I was unimpressed I'm always unimpressed though but right I was going to say you're always yeah like so I mean I think that I think that unfortunately there's a lot of conversation right now about HBCU there's a really hot topic with the presidential you know the base on the democratic side with this quote unquote ADOS movement with the clips going around talking about giving into HBCUs and HBCUs and HBCUs I think it's really a hot topic right now but when we talk about equitable funding we talk about really feeding into these endowments and the things that need to happen they don't but I also disagree with some of what Kimbrough has said in his remarks and I think that a lot of HBCU presidents in my opinion put too much of an emphasis on this initiative and trying to lobby the president and they obviously have a good PR to come out and say he didn't listen to us that our time our time was cut all this good stuff that all sounds good and we all know Kimbrough is great at promoting himself and running himself so with that being said I think that I think that it's important that we keep in mind that there are other ways to do this I think Will says it best and over HBCU money you know there are other ways that HBCU presidents can engage DOE and engage the White House in ways that aren't so public that allow us to get some things done that could be good publicity for Trump and for the president but I don't think we've gone about the right way and I think this initiative and the way it went for HBCU week for the prime example of that because things went extremely well from what I can see with the partnership with Google with HBCU House with some of the partnerships are going to coincide with CBC a lot of great things were happening a lot of great conversations were had a lot of great progress was made Angela rise Angela rise be you know BT event over at um over at Howard theater like a lot of good things along along that coincided with HBCU week I think one of the the down points of that was HBCU presidents engagement with the administration see now here's here's what I'll say about that no matter who's in office the the act of being in office and executing the function of public office is political by nature so everything you do is to justify being elected to that position and is just is to justify your party or yourself remaining in that position so when we say you know we shouldn't have these these moments of engagement you know the president shouldn't have visited the Oval Office and you know we got used and we got played and you know a lot of this stuff I understand it I do understand it from a lot of levels cultural um and and racial to be honest with you but if we're talking about political and this that's all this is this is politics like you do things to show a demographic whose vote that you need a look vote for me because look what I did for you um and the HBCU presidents have to play a role in that they have to they have to be apolitical in terms of who they will work with but they have to be politically charged and how effective they can work with everybody or how effectively so you know I said from when we were in the Oval Office you got to do this that's politics I said the same thing you know some people said you know why is Trump making remarks at our conference it ain't your conference it's the White House's conference who runs White House right and I totally agree I think I think I agree with you even more in the sense that that's why I think the president should shut up personally you know I mean I hate to say I say that so directly but oh we're supposed to be apolitical we're supposed to you know I think I think Tiffany's alma mater president Wayne plays an extremely perfect he never goes too far right he never goes too far left he understands that he operates within a circle of public funding private funding and dealing directly with DOE so he understands that presidents come and go he plans to be a Howard for a very long time so will behoove him to stay within the middle and in my opinion that is where our president should should stay I made a comment about Walter Kimbrough because I think that he gets too far political he uses his campus in his position as a political pedestal to speak on different things which is fine his editorials not beds are nice just like the president in Baltimore right now but I don't think it plays I don't think it plays to the benefit of the either campus and as a Morgan state alumni I can tell you that play through our benefits because it creates an environment in which you believe these presidents are literally doing everything they can to ensure their campuses are running at full speed and that the president and what the White House and DOE is doing it's just the one last thing we need to get over the hump and that's not the case now let me say New Orleans any ball some more there's way more to do now let me say in response to that because I tend to agree with you on a personal level my personal politics but here's what I would say up up here in Baltimore we don't care what well at least a number of us many of us don't care what David Wilson has to say politically is it the old school grizzly bears who don't care the grizzlies don't care the bears may care now let me say in New Orleans I don't know if that's the case it could be that you know Dr. Kimbrough is getting pressure from black legislators yo you need to you need to call this out it could be that his campus and his alumni are pressuring him you need to call this out we don't like him we don't like him we don't like him so it could be that you know he's very front-facing in his politics but that could that could be a statement that a lot of people behind him that helped to sustain the campus are pushing him to make and it's interesting because he remember Dillard hosted that that that debate that had uh you know that Republican candidate oh and right well yeah you also right he also had David Duke so I mean and the issue was and and he put it perfectly he said hey look this is a debate I'm in a I'm in a Republican state this is a debate that whoever wins it is going to be my elected official I have to be willing to to show that I want to work with the state government mechanism regardless of who's in the seat so I respected it I respected his G for that I mean now when you come out and make statements and say well I don't know if this policy works and I don't know if this function works I mean I get it I mean but is that the politically best way to go but I understand it and I more understand it if you're one of those places where people are forcing you to take stands Texas Southern may be another one I can't for the life of me understand why Republican speakers are getting chased off the campus but you got the democratic national debate on campus I understand if your people if your people with that that's fine but no you're going to pay you're going to pay a political price so they had they had Ted Cruz play a basketball game in the gym they didn't run him off I think the issue I think like when they when they ran off the guy who's a um who's a Harris County board member I believe at the law school I think that was a bit of a different situation than because again they had Ted Cruz like the next like around the same time so I think I think that was a bit more of it just just to defend the issue a little bit I live down here um I think that was a bit more of an independent situation but I do agree in that almost all of our schools are Republican states I mean how many how many of our schools have Democratic governors not even Democratic governor right so this is the schools in Virginia for the most part I can think of so I think all of us have to operate in that space but even to agree with Tiffany a little bit here I think that there is there is a place in the time to be there and a way to be there and I agree with them being there I just don't agree with the headlines coming out of it from some of the president because I think that it it doesn't it doesn't add to more healthy debate because even today there's a large chance he could win re-election and we need to continue to build we could have another five years consecutively of this of this administration not just with him we don't know DeVos made she may retire she may or she may not come back as well I just talked about different things so we need to make sure we're in good we're in good positioning good positions before that time comes so there's another aspect that leaders could take and I know we expect our HBCU presidents to just lead like from the front but when you think about how agendas are made and how it takes the people to decide that there is an issue and they bring it to their leadership position I think or forefront of their agenda trying to get it on the agenda I think that's where HBCU leaders should show up not leading in terms of hey my people said XYZ it's this happens it's baking for a while then the president figures out oh shoot this is happening what am I going to do what can I do and then but see I think that's a that's a slippery slope for presidents and I'll say this before we take our first break you know that colleges universities period black or white that's where kids or students are finding themselves politically and personally yes so they're waiting for the stuff to pop off they they're they're literally on canvas like give me a reason to protest and not go to class yes this is particular at HBCUs because of our lineage and our DNA of it's the laboratory of activism so I think that the presidents are aware you don't want to be you don't want to be the one that that makes a politically astute statement or takes a position and the students jump all over you now you can survive students jumping all over you because every president knows there's always a break in the action y'all can be mad at me all fall semester eventually all y'all going home for Christmas and when we come back y'all will have forgotten it y'all can be mad at me all spring semester eventually y'all Negroes gonna graduate and go home for the summer so there's always a pause where you can survive a student based or a student led crisis and not a crisis of you know we got some infrastructure issues or this crime I'm talking about a crisis of the students are not happy with you you can survive that because there'll be a pause but when it when it becomes a situation where you you take a position and you don't have to that's when it's start you start getting the the the name of oh president is such and such president x y and z is such and such and that can carry you for four to six years because if you get if you if you dip in that pool too much if you make too many political statements one way or another then you start to get the the label of oh you're an agent of politics and you do it either for the money or for the governor's favor or whatever and you don't want it so you should be only realistically if if this was a perfect world we're talking about talking about things that directly impact your students in the community that your your school is in so if this was watch Kimbrough talking about hmm this is what the governor is saying and doing okay this is what my my leg or his legislators are doing okay I can see that okay because hey you really do have to work with these people but if it's outside and or above that then maybe maybe maybe you should just let these students do what they're going to do another about age we see when we come back going to have some conversation about Jamel's landmark piece in the Atlantic on if black athletes should migrate to HBC use that just have to dark we'll be right back not just have to dark and we're back uh talking about accreditation issues at an unknown school off air uh but we're back to talk about a really significant piece uh which came out in the Atlantic what was that last week uh from notable journalists and commentator Jamel Hill uh this is centered around a topic that has has been getting attention for years and years and years now should black athletes take their talents their brand and the money that comes along with those to HBC use and the premise of her argument was the NCAA and all of its member schools particularly in the power five conferences have been making billions and billions in revenue off the backs literally off the backs of male and female black athletes um who go on to professional careers who enjoy great collegiate success um they pack stadiums of a hundred thousand people or more um they sell jerseys they sell beer they do all this stuff they don't get paid for it in the meanwhile uh HBC using the communities that surround them financially struggling in a lot of cases and what would happen if these same talented black athletes went to HBC use could that revenue transfer over uh to black college communities and help galvanize uh you know identity and and financial empowerment around these schools particularly in the athletic vein so tip doesn't care about sports uh she's getting boxed out of this conversation that is not um the only reason she's a part of it is because Jamel Hill is from Detroit uh we don't care about that um so or as I would ask you your your thoughts on this are a little bit different from the general dialogue that's been taking place so what did you think first about the article and then the premise of black athletes uh being centered more around the HBCU community so I liked the article I didn't like her response as much she wrote a response to baby maybe two three days later I wasn't too into that one but I was in I was into the original article in his premise also shout out to Ben Watson that was great content with him taking down Laura Ingram yeah I did see that really enjoyed seeing her I really enjoyed seeing her shake always fun um but no I think the article was good I think that what she said is what me as people have said I feel like you've written on it I feel like Steven Gaither an HBCU game they's written on it so she just has a bigger platform so I don't want to give her so much credit without giving credit to people who also operate in the space who speak about it um I think even better ways than she has and again I know that obviously she has to make things that are entertaining to be able to be read in the Atlantic and so forth and so on so she didn't really get nitty gritty in terms of the facts talking about student fees and all different things um but I thought it was good I think that part of the part of my issue is that I'm not and again I'm someone who's a big football fan my brother is a BX football player right now so I can't I can't stay here with a straight face and say I don't care about football at all but I think that that's a space where we spend too much time and money in the agency you face personally I think we spend a lot of our time worrying about football and to me I think it's a waste of time I think that HBCU should take the to see like Georgetown does like Georgetown is in D.C. there has never been strong football in terms of collegiate league in the middle ad region the best time Maryland ever had was probably in 01 with Chris Perry returning kids with free with Ralph Regan was still there and they still and they still didn't win nothing they got to the orange bowl and got blown out by Florida so so it's not our thing but we won national championships at Maryland even though I don't even know I don't mess with Maryland like that I'm a Georgetown fan but at Maryland and Georgetown Coppin had a great run Morgan's had strong runs uh UVA just want to ring and they got a bunch of D.C. folks on the team so I think that I think that HBCUs are positioned one because basketball the sport doesn't require as many people to be good to you don't need them in school for three years to make to make the benefit and for I mean you don't the facility facilities in basketball don't matter like it doesn't matter but the weight rooms don't matter and in basketball practice facilities don't matter in basketball you practice on the same court you play on like there's no we don't need to spend nearly a lot of money so I think that if HBCUs took the premise of this article and applied it to basketball and we went D3 or D2 or whatever in football like Georgetown and it had top tier went all in on D1 basketball we could be competitive I mean if you have if you have a you have a squad that's going you know 30 and five and the Miak they deserve a higher seed than a 16 our issue is that we never can have a team that's that good our best teams may lose 10-12 games so I think that if we apply this energy to basketball men then women's and we pull some money back from football go D2 go D3 go NiAA excuse me NiAA I think that we can be successful because that's what Georgetown University is like I've had some down years but for decades and centuries they've been a they've had a football team but it's not a real football team it's no D3 or that's a D1 now but they were D3 for a long time and they had top tier basketball I think that that's where we need we should we should go we should go top tier basketball and let the football go I've always said from the beginning there's a reason why 30 years after the fact the CIAA is still more popular than the Miak now you could say that the Miak spin-off teams were the popular CIAA teams and that's why they moved up and created their division one thing but the CIAA as a tournament the affinity that still remains popular and part of it is the geography part of it is you don't have to travel far to see good rivalries you don't have to travel far to see teams um that are you know competitive within competitive balance and range of each other and it still means something everybody's in Carolina and Virginia the Miak now you know division one we're all up and down the east coast so you don't you don't have a chance to galvanize the conference as a fan base more to the point in moving up that way you still you don't have an opportunity or you don't have any system or infrastructure in place to guarantee that every single one of your schools is going to be competitive at least with D2 you know everybody's going to have a small gym with no AC everybody is going to be geographically proximate for the most part so we can save on travel and put more back into the program and recruiting people um and in-state talent and building that in-state fan base but there is no way that you can make you can make uh South Carolina State be competitive there's nothing the Miak can do there's nothing the other member schools can do to force them to spend more money on sports or to spend more wisely on sports and there's nothing you can do to make them great in basketball in South Carolina football yeah they're not touching Coppin and Morgan in basketball we just we just got a basketball city there's nothing you can do about it nothing you can do about it so I mean to that end I I totally agree with you always like that we got to rethink the way that we do sports but then but then to the larger point of you know should should black athletes go to HBC use that her point was well taken and I'm so grateful that she used her platform to make that kind of a statement but here's the thing if somebody told her and I'm not I'm not challenging her a question in her Draymond Green got a choice between Michigan State where he's from he grew up in Michigan Flint right or was Saginaw Saginaw he's from Michigan you got a choice between Michigan State and Bowie or Morgan where are you going especially if the price is right because one of the one of the popular stories we've had big time basketball players have a passing fancy with HBC use we've had John Wall we had OJ Mayo we've had a couple guys who were flirting out there you know posting out there I might go to an HBCU and the story will go and without naming any names at some point somebody comes to your door comes to your mom and says what's the number how much is it going to take to get your boy where he's supposed to be is that on their end as in on the potential recruits in just a mechanism for them to get somebody to come to their door but see but see but Tiffany my issue is difficult like that but if you're poor and you know that you're your family's way out and that's all you heard and been seen and that's been assessed of your talent and you want to do something is that what's being done but here's where it has to start if if this is a question of all things being equal to these athletes I would I love everything about an HBCU but you just don't have the facilities where I want to practice where I want to play because at this point it's not even a question about coming on television you're on ESPN and it's easy to get so this isn't like you know you're looking at a tape delay like you can watch most HBCU games at this point um people will see you people will find you this is a if this is if all things that are are being considered equally if this is a question of resources then when do we say all right well if we want to play and we want to be big dog then let's galvanize and and put it and get our gym and get our weight room and get our film room into work in order because I'll true be told there are quite a few HBCUs that have decent facilities Morgan has decent more than decent Morgan has good facilities PV has amazing facilities see what I mean like so when you say like every let me let me let me let me just debunk this myth I'm gonna be ivory Tolson for a second oh okay every every every HBCU doesn't have whack facilities there are some that have really dope weight rooms there are some that have really dope playing fields they got really nice stadiums with lights they come on tv locally and nationally with the ESPN deal every HBCU ain't trash when it comes to that and and and we leave and we leave the FCS and even even you know I even though I got a lot of big fans of us playing D1 football but we leave the FCS in attendance every year right so ain't about people understand their way more people understand so if you think about it it's more of a question of are it's not are you even are you pouring the resources into the facilities are you pouring the resources early enough and to the right people to get the to get the coalitions that surround really good athletes to understand that HBCUs are a better option than another mid major I think that we have this this this misnomer or this wrong philosophy of we got to get a we got to get Zion or LeBron I don't think you got it that's not who you got to aim at they're going to go to where they're going to go you can get John Moran you can't get it you can't get a Draymond Green who was a late bloomer and you know how we know it because we got it to wreak Cohen like in football so there there are if if you can if you can get those guys who are good enough to be you know second team all city you know first team honorable mention when you're feasting on those that talent then you're good to go I think something is happening when you see all these NBA players and NBA veterans and retired NBA players giving money to HBCUs they're starting golf programs at HBCUs like Steph Curry they're doing combines the SIC and the swag doing a NBA combine more and more of these black athletes are starting to look at HBCUs the question you have to ask is are the HBCUs welcoming that attention are they reaching out to their agents are they reaching out to the players associations are they reaching out to their foundations and saying hey come be our come be our commencement speaker hey come you know come come take come bring your your your summer camp here or are we just saying hey I'm so glad that you're wearing you know a Winston-Salem State sweatshirt like are we taking it are we taking it to the next level to to broaden the relationship or are we just saying all right that's good that they're paying attention to us no you got to you got to you got to call them you got to reach out you got to find a way to bridge that gap and keep them on your campus so I mean I mean I couldn't agree more I couldn't I couldn't agree at the same time are we do we do we do we care that's it that's the bigger question is that do do because at the same time we have great big fan bases and a lot of big big states with the big sports teams but we're not even I don't I don't think that we're engaged enough in those conversations you know I know Morgan has a small deal with the Orioles and with the Ravens but you know will it go any further because at the same time even with even back to recruiting like let's not forget like we also it also requires us to have relationships with these high schools because those those those are the feeders in the pipeline I mean you talk even even to bring it back to Detroit what high school in Detroit you need to have a conversation with if you want to recruit for sports it's cast tech in DC you got the you know obviously you have demasta but you have the whole WCAC in you know in Florida you have you know the Miami Day schools I mean so there are I think also relationships are a big point of that at the same time I mean people like Juan Dixon was was third team all city and went to Maryland but I mean so it it's it's it's the Gary Williams season you may wish season value too well I think that that's that's where things get older that's to the point and go ahead to could it also be misunderstanding or looking from the outside in on how these other D1 PWIs get and maintain all of this attention you know how like you see how somebody got something you think on how they may have gotten it and you deserve so you just think it's going to be given to you and not to say that it's not saying that we just think it's going to be handed to us but I think it's more to what y'all have kind of been saying that what are you doing with this attention that you're being given in Sparks like are we acting going do we have the people to act on it or is this like a Roland Martin situation where y'all need to hit me up drop me along well I don't I don't I don't I don't think it's Roland Martin I think that's a bit extreme but we don't have so we have people who are are doing what they can to to cultivate this space I think that we're just spread too thin and I think Stephen Gates at this point and he's made multiple times like to your game days should be taken into consideration in his whole conversation which is are we utilizing our resources efficiently because we're spending a ton of money and student fees to be at the same place we've been in regardless of how much exposure we have or not right and I believe in outsourcing what can be outsourced to allow let's be very clear if there's an alarm you realize that you realize you realize so here's what funny thing right even about alumni they talk about alumni giving rates which I don't care about you know why I looked this up John Hopkins alumni giving rate was 12% do you know what was in that 12% though a billion dollar donation right so so we have to look at what is the side of the average donation because we don't have billion dollar donations coming in so I'm not talking about money putting it on alumni is fine but I mean listen I don't guys that fame you and they got meet them the band got a fine from the me act because they wanted to feel too long a half time and they were walking around with buckets asking for donations in the crowd because they had a five dollar fine okay I'm not putting it back on alumni trust me talking about you have alum who have a certain skill set they have resources you have a need an extreme need why not ask somebody like Stephen Gather in hbcu game day to take over what you need handle like does that make because because because because the sweat convert will come down and say no the same way that the government outsources to nonprofit organizations to decrease what it is that they what it is that they're responsible for in terms of social services that's I think what we need to consider doing as a community we'll talk about what we can talk offline siphony but part of this is the ncda conversation which is in the espn having having exclusive streaming rights of all of our games conversation because we can't outsource nothing that's why we talked to Stephen he would love to but espn had exclusive streaming rights of all hbcu content for the me act in the swag again we don't have to be ncda that's part of okay there you go that's the conversation nobody's ready to have that's the there is something to be said about having more than one option is sticking with the one that's serving you the least i'm not serving you the least and that and that's how we got it in this one because you tried to cut me off no you're done you're done so that's the conversation no one wants to have and and we got to have going forward but when we come back we want to get to a a serious issue um that's playing out at several campuses and typically does year to year how do we deal with crime on campus uh that just have to dark we'll be right back that just have to dark uh hashtag family to the fbs um so now we want it we want to talk about uh a more serious conversation um which is canvas crime now now here's one thing i want to say you know we're not an outlet and we're not an operation that that feeds off you know talking about crime on campus like we don't that those are hits i don't want because it's a stereotype it already follows us so there's no reason no reason to analyze coverage of what happened on campus who got hurt and how do we deal with it but it is to say um because that stereotype exists that we do have to have a conversation about some of the infrastructural approaches to how you solve this right so the reason i want to bring this up is because there was an article the thing was the chronicle um that that surface last week i think during hbc week that that kind of did a feature on the troubles that more house college has had with hiring and retaining a title nine officer and this is in relation to the you know the ongoing narrative about you know sexual assault and harassment at more house um where there's like a backlog of cases of uh men being accused of of rape um an assault uh not just against women um in the a u c but also against other brothers on campus there's a backlog of issues with uh harassment from faculty and staff to students some of which have resulted in you know students basically outing themselves trying to find some kind of resolution to being harassed by people on campus so it is to say that hbc use not all of them but enough of them with some being the public facing representation of it are having some real real serious issues about how do you deal with campus crime and i don't mean like somebody got robbed i mean claims processing the claims uh making sure that due process is followed what level does administration have or responsibility does administration have an oversight of these things how do you keep certain positions filled when the backlog is so much and the work is so much and the culture is so intertwined with we don't want to deal with this how do you make that happen and and i think all of our schools have dealt dealt with that howard morgan famu all of us have dealt with this hbc all over the country so to the more house point first the story pretty much centered on there were several sisters who had been hired at the title nine officer they they quit for one reason too much work i'm one person these are way too many cases for me to process another one was the notion that being a sister in the position you were naturally and overwhelmingly surrounded by a bunch of brothers it's more house college so in administration the only people with whom you're you're dealing with on a regular basis is men and what does that mean in communication and being taken seriously and making sure that your voice is heard that's more house um but it is it could be a reflection for a lot of campuses that are dealing with this so i would pose to you guys how serious of an issue do you think campus crime is and do you think that of the hbc is with which you are intimately familiar that they are doing a good and effective job of dealing with issues like that one campus you mean start tiff may you want to go first oh no you got this i think i i mean obviously i went to two hbc use one in a college town in tallahassee one in a very urban environment in baltimore and i live across the street from a from an urban hbc untsu now and i grew up near power or damn near on the campus within our environment as well i think the first thing we don't talk about enough is that a lot of our campuses um our campus police are only allowed to police a very small area of the campus so for instance in baltimore more than police can cross hill and road like they can't do anything even in more than view which is has named more than on it but even though it's private property technically i'm praying that they've changed that i'm praying that they have changed that please say they have changed that i hope that some kind of cooperative agreement where morgan police can be over there because if not oh my gosh when i was in school as when i was living in baltimore going to more than state um they didn't have jurisdiction over half of marble hall so i had frankly lived in marble hall the non morgan part of it that was baltimore city police morgan v with baltimore city police i actually had a friend get arrested inside inside morgan v by baltimore city police inside of more than view more than view apartment long story but um but yeah so we talk about such a small area of the campus community is policed by our police department so you talk about jurisdiction you talk about processing and claims it's a very hazy at least in my opinion very hazy cooperation between the cities in which they operate in and the overall campus community i didn't see that in tallahassee though as famu it seems like it was a very much like the famu police had the famu the general area it wasn't a it wasn't like a clear distinction where you would see you know tallahassee police right across the street it was more of a holistic environment it's also a college town in dc i rarely see however university police i mean you may see them on obviously on the campus but they're not on georgia avenue they're not going to avenue they're not nowhere down you so i think i think in my in my opinion we talk about jurisdiction we talk about title nine we talk about all these all these different things i think it all comes down to the fact that we are under resource in our crime prevention and um in our safety out of this because of our campus size but also we don't necessarily have a jurisdiction to go a little bit further out which is where many students live and then the third thing about that is that in some cases we don't have the best relationship with the communities that's around the school you can so i guess from a university budget perspective there are times where you can allocate resources and say all right we want more police cars or we want to hire more officers we want more technology on campus like cameras and um you know keyless entry uh and id cards and stuff like that so there are things that you can do on an annual basis to say we're going to strengthen our public safety approach but i wonder if those things are effective if students believe that there is a culture of things happening and students being able to get away with it because i wanted one of the dirty little secrets of of hbc's or at least as i've come to know them let's say you get caught smoking weed on campus typically that you know you're not you're supposed to be thrown out for that typically the police won't prosecute you and say you need to you need to be expelled you know there's drug use on campus it could be you and me not sure right out on the shore they'll get you out you're on you're on 13 but some students believe that's not fair and i don't feel safe because you're allowing drug use on campus so there's a now you have a culture for what a lot of people would say is a minor offense but some students feel like i'm not i'm not safe because if you're smoking drugs on campus does that mean somebody's dealing drugs on campus so that's you know that's one notion of culture it's another thing about drinking um you know some people you know everybody has had known somebody or has done themselves like snuck liquor into the dorm if you got a dry campus like morgan is there was nothing you know from haven lounge over to ralton's hall but that some people may feel like okay you're drinking and drunk on campus is what is there going to be an assault here what if you get in a fight what if you get in a fight and you got a gun or a knife and you're drunk so i think a big part of this conversation is students feeling like they're either committing minor offenses and it's okay because it's a minor offense and then other students feeling like this ain't safe here because when something big happens they recall all those minor offenses and when it comes to you know when they get on twitter or when they get on the local media they say oh man we got a lot of problems here i think there's something to be said about how we and how how we consider ourselves a community and how we allow our students current and you know alone to regard our community and how we are to treat each other um because you should not you should not get a pass there should be some type of consequence so you know don't violate violate this particular community norm again but i think we do a good job i don't know if that's because we ain't got the resources we're in a state of dysfunction but we do a good job of giving people passes or slaps on the wrist because we we just don't have a manpower we don't and we don't want to see them caught up and and there you go that's that's what i was waiting for we don't want to see them caught up because that's that's the refrain and i mean and i think about rosita and washer let me or any of my brothers have gotten caught up smoking we in our reds hall or getting drunk and having to go to the hospital to get our stomach pumped or anything like that they're here and on our ass did you ever stand were you ever on george avenue drunk yes or no no i don't get drunk outside of safe and outside of the residence hall but anyway so i was i was deaf i was definitely drunk multiple times on walnuts way i was walking yeah i mean so is it what it is but i think i think kiffy you you have a good point willingly and willfully put myself in that position i'm not getting drunk out of my home i don't you have a you have a good point but from what my experience i never saw anybody get the pass at morgan or fam i had multiple friends get arrested by by morgan and family police for a very minor thing i had a friend get kicked out of umis for some residue so maybe back in jerry's day and i think you're that much older than me maybe back in your day was a bit cooler but now when i was in school i had multiple people get kicked out for for what what i would consider minor minor offenses and it's crazy because in maryland it's all legal now well not legal it's decriminalized now see that's the that's the challenge though because officers are officer chief to chief vp to vp president to president they all have different views of that and that's okay on your individual campus but what happens when that's on the same campus what happens when a title line officer believes okay i've got a claim of of a sexual assault the the the victim provides this information the accused provides this information and i don't have the time or the resources to investigate friends to investigate acquaintances and all that stuff until this comes back based on what i have and what i have time for inconclusive and now you have an issue where students are saying uh-uh such and such was raped and you're coming back inconclusive and that dude is still or that person is still on the campus the the the attacker no way no way and now you have a situation where students are compelled to say i'm gonna go on twitter or instagram and out that person and out myself as a victim and out the university as as unresponsive or non-responsive or complicit with an attack and we've not even we've not even gotten to all the levels of how does this happen and now people's lives are permanently altered and the school is dragged through the news nationally because every time this happens with more house and speleman they're in the news nationally in multiple outlets it ain't just the Atlanta journal constitution this is time magazine this is new york times this is the washington post so this is a national story and at what point do you say how do how do we effectively handle this and we're just talking about sexual assaults we're not even talking about violence on campus we're not talking about weapons we're not talking about fights we're not talking about uh burglary and property destruction we just focused on sexual assault and broke down how do we get here and when you compound that there's a culture of students really don't know what due process is they don't they don't and it's not that they're they're they're not intelligent enough to know it's not that it's not explained to them i think that they get caught up in the emotion of it when i when i think about the a and t case where the cheerleader was sexually assaulted and the people were outing the attacker he's he's still on campus get him out of here that's a you know when you talk about title nine that's a lawsuit you throw him off campus and he hasn't had due process he hasn't been found responsible he hasn't been found criminally responsible that school is about to have a problem because you didn't give a student legitimately charged or not due process but from a student we all saw we all saw Morgan lost that lawsuit over the over the shooting right see what i mean so this due process when you when you talk about when you talk about resources that's a challenge but it's even more of a challenge when the schools don't make it clear timetables requirements of of cooperation from witnesses requirements of cooperation from claimants counseling resources you just you know a student makes a claim and they say okay well i appreciate that you need to go to the doctor okay well are you okay to go back to class that ain't that ain't good enough that's not good enough that's how you get people on on instagram saying my name is such and such and i was raped by this person now you got a whole bunch of legal issues now the school has a whole bunch of legal issues now the school has a whole bunch of media coverage how do we reverse that i don't i don't if you don't have enough people and you don't have enough time and you have a growing number of incidents real or real or false whatever you still have to investigate all of them comprehensively is there a way that you can reverse this because you can put more money into your budget but if your people don't have the training if your people think like this is too much i can't do all these cases at one time and i'm not sure who's lying and who's not and everybody has this thing like i'm not snitching on somebody and i don't really want to throw a black man or a black woman out of school we got it we got a real cauldron of issues that's only going to get worse and i think at some point somebody got somebody got to offer a blueprint to get out of this because this is happening at too many campuses and it's happening too frequently and ultimately it'll be the point as with everything else it ain't just one school it ain't just more house it's hbcu's hbcu's got a problem with rape hbcu's got a problem with guns hbcu's got a problem with drugs so i mean from from and in all actuality we don't that's the sad part that we don't we don't have the we don't have the resources to even combat it even from a pr perspective like we don't have when these articles come out we don't have the ability to even respond to them in an effective way don't even get me started on that how many how many times where something happens and the and the thing says more house officials or morgan state officials were unavailable for comment we need a ghost writing pr oh my god you alumni gild no for real like we keep talking about what we don't have but i know we got people we do can we can can we pay that rate can we afford it because y'all ask me if y'all ask me to contract i ain't low i didn't know just you know getting on discount exactly i'm spammed on discount and why and why and why should you because the work is that serious and the work is that i agree with you if there's money somewhere it all depends on how you want to allocate the money is there money somewhere definitely there's where it just depends on how you want to allocate the money is there money somewhere you would know better anybody is there money somewhere there's money somewhere i don't think so and that's gonna wrap up our conversation i mean in all seriousness um there is money somewhere tiffani doesn't have it her department doesn't have it but uh there is money somewhere that you can reallocate um it's just a question of are we willing to put the training in and are we willing to bring the students in in mass to help them understand here's where we are in our ability to process claims and crimes and here's your responsibility as a citizen of this community in understanding new process helping us to execute it and making sure that we're not jeopardizing the futures of other people who may not have been involved or you may not have the whole story in all kinds of stuff we just got to have we got it has to start with a cultural change before you even get to the resource question so really good show man i appreciate it tiffani didn't get thrown off or thank you brother as usual um and thank all of you out there for listening uh for this edition of digest after dark again you can catch us on uh patreon dot com forward slash hbcu dot just please be sure to subscribe just a dollar a month our lowest lowest package also check us out on a serious 142 hbcu pride of higher universities radio network until next tip we doing this again next week we're doing this tomorrow stop playing i'm not doing it tomorrow i'm boycotting tomorrow thanks again everybody for listening to digest after dark take it next time peace