 Today is Dr. Tyrone Wells, and he's asked us to call him Ty, a terrific guy. So Ty, come on forward, if you're with me, and he wants to address us on the subjects of talking to anybody about anything. How's everyone today? Is this good? Isn't it crazy how it always rains on the weekend, but workdays are like Brad and Sunny when you're locked in your office or anything like that? It's crazy. Thank you guys for coming. Thank you for letting me be able to talk to you. It's a really big honor. So my name is Dr. Tyrone Wells. You guys can just call me Ty. I've been here a couple of times. A lot of familiar faces here. That's great. I have a hobby where I think I can talk to anyone about anything, and that hobby or project is called street epistemology. Have you guys ever heard about street epistemology before? All right. So street epistemology, it's a very, very complicated term in my opinion for something that's very, very simple. The way how I like to think about it, the street epistemology is just talking to people without sounding like a jerk. It's literally that simple. Just asking questions without getting anyone upset, making them defensive, and allowing both parties to investigate how they arrived at a conclusion. At street epistemology, it's an informal way to ask people, how did you figure that out? And that how did you figure it out is what we would call an epistemology. It's how you came to a conclusion. And the street aspect of that just refers to me going outside on the streets. Literally not a street. Maybe like the sidewalk, a really nice park or something like that. But college campuses, I've gone to political rallies, I've gone to protests, I've gone to churches. I've done some here at Sunday Assembly. I've talked to some of the guys here as well. Great chats all around. But the idea is that you're talking to someone about how they arrived at a conclusion. And why I think this is important is because I think it's going to change the dynamic of how non-believers communicate with believers moving forward. And I'm saying that because, and I'm an atheist, we kind of have a bad reputation for having these kinds of conversations with people who believe in a God. What's a productive way to have that? So if you go on YouTube and you look for atheists, theists have a conversation with each other, you're going to find a bunch of videos where people are having debates with each other. And the thing about a debate is you're not really talking to each other. You're talking more to the audience and you're setting up logical traps and you're very much firm in your position. You're not really open to changing your mind. There's a lot of arguments on YouTube too where people are throwing out personal barbs, getting personally invested in their conclusions and not allowing themselves to think critically about maybe the other person who's arguing with me might have a point or not. And I love listening to arguments. I watch arguments on YouTube all the time. I can do that all day. But is there a better option? And I think street epistemology is that I think it's going to give us the tools to allow anybody to talk to anyone about anything. I want to show you guys what street epistemology looks like today and then also tell you guys how to do it. But first let's go over a quick little cut example. This video will be a collection of clips that myself and another street epistemologist named Read Nice Wonder who's situated in California. His channel is called Cordial Curiosity. Stuff videos that we've been doing over the past week or a past year. And I want to highlight the positivity and the productiveness of having street epistemology as opposed to arguments and debates. Let's go next slide. Come on. You can do it. There we go. So, yeah, just have this hobby where I chat with people about anything. Is there a particular belief you want to chat about? Is there what? A particular belief that you want to chat about. Something you really think is true. Christianity. Yeah. All right. Anyway, yeah. Ty's my name. I've got a five minute timer. Okay. If any two people can talk about anything, is there anything that strongly motivates you? Anything that you think is true? God? Yeah. That's a heavy topic. You want to talk about that for five minutes? Sure. Yeah? Yeah, I can talk about, I mean, I was, my background is Christianity. I was raised Southern Baptist. I believe in God. So that would be the thing I'm the most certain about. Okay. First, got to get a sense of your confidence. Okay. That God exists? Okay. Say on a scale from one to ten? Ah, ten. Ten for sure. Ten for me. I mean, I am 100% certain that high power exists. Okay. Um, 95. 95. All right. Very confident. 100 to 100%. 100%. 100%. You don't need any more evidence. You're absolutely closed on the position. You think that's absolutely true? Yep. Okay. 100%. What got you to that 100%? Oh, really? Well, uh... So, I go to a Christian school and I've learned I've taken a bunch of classes on theories and all these different things and it just makes sense to me. It kind of like hits home. I, and for me, it's just a meditation thing. Okay. That I realize that it's just, it's just a full on total goodness of the earth. Mm-hmm. All the plant. Um, I believe that there is something that has been working on my behalf in this universe. Whatever is here had to come from somewhere. Okay. Uh, it's hard to imagine coming from somewhere without some sort of first cause. Okay. Yeah. I know it's hard to think that. Okay. Okay. Um, how does something making sense to you relate to the actual truth of it? Like, could someone actually be mistaken about a belief that makes sense to them? Yeah, I think they could. Okay. That is a very good point. I would say... So, you, oh, that's an interesting perspective. So, you believe that, wow, I've never ever heard that before. That's an interesting, you know, we've come around to an interesting point that I know I never verbalized to myself before, but I do see that, you know, I'm starting to see just from this discussion. And the benefits I get from it? Right. Right. Right. That's good. That's a good perspective. I would like to believe it if it's true. Right. But because nobody can question it, nobody can prove it. You can't prove faith. You can't prove any of these things. It's like, why am I believing this? Hmm. That's powerful stuff, man. Thanks. Yeah, it's just stuff to think about, maybe. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for that. That's really enlightening. I never thought of it like that. That's true. Right. That's a good way to look at it. I like to think about it that way. And anything that puts you in a more reasonable position. I try. I try. Hmm. Well, thanks. Yeah? All right. Have a good evening. It was good chatting with you. Have a good evening. Have a good one. Cool. You guys see the difference between maybe that in an argument or that in a debate? It's very chill. And the secret behind this is you don't even need a table or a YouTube account to have these kinds of conversations. I'm hoping by the end of this talk, every single person here will know the key points to have these kinds of conversations with anyone about anything. Whether you think a certain, if you encounter a person who's closed-minded about what the best Marvel movie is, which we all know, right? Right? Oh, that's a B plus for me. We can talk about that later. Or if they believe in a God or not. So which tends to be one of those topics that we've been trained not to have those conversations about, but it just turns out we just need to have a method to do that. And I think this is the best method. So let's talk about tips to have a good SE conversation. Let's see. Next slide. Come on. You can do it. There we go. All right. My three tips for having a really good SE conversation. The first one is keep it positive. As you can see in those clips, it's a very, very positive conversation. And the reason why that's important is because when you're done with those talks and the person walks away, they're going to reflect on the conversation that they had. And you want to have that be done with as little bias as possible. If they can easily dismiss all the points that you guys reached together by saying, oh, look, that guy was a jerk. Just forget about it. But it's a lost opportunity. So never go to the point where it will be heated or it will be incredibly uncomfortable for them. Leave it on a positive note because that makes them more encouraged to have these kinds of talks with someone else in the future. Or maybe with you again. It's definitely important. No, I said conversation. And that's the second point. It needs to be a two-way street as far as both of you guys learning stuff. SE, in my opinion, is not a teaching technique. It is a strategy where both of you guys can work together to explore belief. And because of that, you need to be open-minded to whatever that person is giving you. If they say, hey, I thought I was abducted by aliens last night, there's that small chance they could be right. You're not there to tell them why they're wrong. You're there to explore how they came to that conclusion and whether or not it's reliable. If they use a reliable way to get there or not. The last point I think is really important is let the person do the thinking. Let them think. It's in the same sense of you can't go into a conversation thinking that you're right and that you're going to tell the person why they're wrong. That's going to reflect it back on you. They're going to think they're right and they're going to tell you why you're wrong. Neither of you guys are really going to meet on an even ground. Being open-minded and allowing them to think is an important point. But also giving them the opportunity to savor or sit on some really important points or epiphanies that you guys reach together is really important. And sometimes all that requires is for you not to say anything at all. There's a tip or a word or phrase that we use in the SEC called the pregnant pause which is literally where one person is just quiet while the other person is just thinking to himself or herself. And that tends to be the most powerful point because a lot of people never just get the opportunity to think about the things that they believe. And if you can just be there as an unbiased judge or like a coach and just give them that opportunity to think amazing things can happen and as short as a five minute conversation. I want to actually show you guys a full SE conversation a little bit slightly edited. This is a, it's really cool how you make friends doing this too. And this is my friend or not my friend but a guy who I met at a park at Lexington at a place called Arboretum. It's right next to the campus. It's a really beautiful walking ground and I just set up one day. Jacob came by and he wanted to talk about God. And I was like that's great. So let's have a conversation about his God belief. I'm passing around some business cards. You should have my contact info. But let's go into the actual video. That should be flashing. So hi, I'm Ty. Nice to meet you. So I got a hobby where I set up a table and talk to people about whatever they want to talk about. I think it's really cool to show that, you know, any two people can talk about anything regardless of the color, whatever. Big size, how rich they look. Doesn't matter. Normally the conversations that we have are really cool when they're centered around what someone really strongly believes or a philosophy they have or something they wrap their lives around. If you want to talk about that, we can talk about Marvel movies or your favorite junk food. But is there anything that you really strongly believe is true or something you're confident about? Can I also fit something and ask your name again? Oh yeah, Jacob. Jacob, I'm Ty. Ty. Jacob. That's a big question. Well, I'd say I'm a Christian. So that's probably my biggest belief. There are a lot of beliefs that exist. Yeah, yeah, you're right. Would you just say like the Christian God exists, maybe? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I believe in one God and that is... This is a really heavy topic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There are middle school class, by the way. Okay, yeah. How confident are you that Jesus and God exist? All right. I'd say 100%. 100%. 100%. I wanted to find 100% and just let me know. Because it's a number. And you can change the number. I don't care. But 100% to me is like... Like no doubt. No doubt. There's no way I can be wrong. I'm not asking questions anymore. I am certain, close-minded on the position. I'm closed on the position. 100%. Let's go 98%. 98%. Yeah, just... I mean, everybody has those periods of doubt, right? I think so. And I think it's actually healthier to not be absolute about what you believe. What got you to the 98% confidence on this God? And Jesus. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Go ahead. Or like on the existence of the Christian God? So I'm actually a medical student. And I found a big interest in biology when I was in high school. There was like one big hypothesis out there called the RNA hypothesis. RNA world theory? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that because RNA can act as like a catalyst and also as a way to store information, biological information, that might have been what was initially used as protein in DNA. Right. But like when they... Do you know the Stanley Miller experiment? Yes. Yeah, yeah. So they show that if you put like... RNA and once you make it rapidly produced itself, it can make like little tiny monsters of itself. Well... Simplified versions of RNA. The one I'm thinking of is that it's a bunch of... Nucleotide. Sorry for the interrupt. Well, you know you're fine. I'm just... It's been a while since I've read it. So like they try to recreate the the oceans of the earth and like this in this small environment and then they would like zap it with electricity. Sure. To kind of simulate the... Simulate the environment and atmosphere of the earth four million years ago. Right. And they show that they can actually make some molecules that are essential to life. Some amino acids. Right. And like urea, formaldehyde, stuff like that. However, the amino acids that they make are only like lysine and very simple and non-polar amino acids. So they haven't shown that they can create more of the complex amino acids that are needed to sustain life. And they also never showed that they could create DNA or RNA. Can I ask you how does this get you to the god-belief? How do the experiments... Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So like... I just... I don't see a way of life spontaneously generating. And I don't see a way if you... Like if you were to talk to my astrophysics pal. Sure. And if you talk to him, I cannot see a way of the world or the universe spontaneously generating. Jacob, can I ask you a question? Yeah. I'm wondering... So you have this... You have this theory that's presented in the scientific model. Uh-huh. And it sounds incredible. And you say, that sounds... I can't see how that's feasible yet. Uh-huh. Therefore this... This is my... Completely other thing. Uh-huh. How did that... How is that your foundation? How did that become... I wouldn't say that's my foundation. That's just like part of... Or how does this being hard to believe make this 98% confident? Like how... Oh, okay. How did that become the alternative at a 98% confidence level? Like was that the reason why you're 98%? I think that's just part of it. And I think if you look into other parts of my faith... So, like, it's kind of hard to explain. And it's kind of all feeling, right, from a skeptic's point of view. There are some things in your life that you just kind of... You have a gut instinct. Gut instinct? That you know it's true. Are gut instincts ever wrong? Oh, all the time. If they can be wrong all the time, does it justify supporting a 98% confidence? From a logical standpoint, no. What is getting you to that 98%? I'd say... So, a belief in certain things in the Bible. So, one of the big arguments in apologetics is why would 12 people who followed Jesus around when he said, and then saw him die, lie about him coming back to life only to know that they were going to be persecuted and put to death for saying that. Does that get you to the 98%? That's kind of like the main thing. It's like the biology aspect and then that as well. I'm just going to test if that is actually your main thing. I'm going to ask you a question. If it turned out, this is kind of weird. Again, I'm just immediately in conversation. If it turned out that there was substantial evidence to a criteria of your satisfaction, they were in fact lying. Would that reduce your confidence? From 98% down to 70 maybe lower than that? Probably. Okay. Can I ask you a question? Go ahead. Say I had a... I don't know. I have a cat. I do have a cat. His name is Vinnie. I walk him on a leash and he's a black cat. He's super super cool. You walk your cat on a leash? I walk my... So listen, I used to look overseas for a while. It's very common over there. In Sweden, everyone's walking their cats around. In America, they keep them locked up in doors. I'm like, that cat wants to be outside. That's why he's on the window. And if you leash train them really young, they're super super cool about it. But it's not so much the leash training. It's just would you believe me if I told you how to cat and I showed you a picture of the cat and like I'm holding the cat? Yeah, yeah. Okay. If I told you, I actually have a tiger and his name is Marshall. And he's a full-blown, full-blown, Bengal tiger. And I have a picture of him and it's me and the tiger. Would you believe I had a tiger then? It'd be tougher. It'd be harder to believe. It would be harder to believe. If I told you I had a purple dragon from Jupiter that came and visits me in a time machine and I had a picture of the purple dragon and there's like a DeLorean in the background. And it's a picture. It's the same picture. Would you believe that? I'd say it's Photoshop. It seems like the more incredible the claim, the better the standard of evidence or the standard of evidence improves. Would you say that God is more incredible than a purple dragon from Jupiter? I would, yeah. So the thing isn't so much that I think the apologist's angle is hey, what's the likelihood of these tall people lying? It's like maybe it's not even that they're lying. It's just that that's a really low bar of evidence. It's basically tall people saying Tyrone has a cat. You believe that. Tyrone has a tiger. Tall people say that. Maybe you'd believe it. Maybe not. Tall people told you hey, Tyrone has a purple dragon from Jupiter. I'm not believing that. You need more evidence to support that with. What if it is a case of not so much that they might be lying, but that just may not be enough evidence to reach that conclusion as a definitive claim for at least 98% certainty that a God exists since it's way more incredible than purple dragon. What do you think about that? Can you restate that question? Yeah, it's kind of a long question. Do you have enough evidence to justify 98% confidence in God? And if it's not a 12 Apostle story, what else is getting you to that level? What else? I'd say I can't answer that just right now. I'm totally fine with that. Can I throw one last? Oh yeah, go ahead. If I had a coin, it's a quarter. It's not a trick coin. If I flip it and I catch it, and then the back of my hand, I don't know if it's at your toes. Do you know if that's at your toes? No. That's the best answer. Yeah. You totally have that for evidence. Uh-huh. Jacob. All right. It's wonderful talking to you. I'm talking to you. That was really cool, huh? Yeah. So, explain to me what you're doing exactly again. Sure. Okay, so if you want. Here's a card. Uh-huh. Yeah, really positive, right? Also, it's a conversation. We're not debating. We're not arguing. And also, when you needed the time to think, I gave them that time to think. And I think if he was asked those same questions, he would answer them differently. And I think that's the important part, because it shows that they are allowing themselves to critically think about the conclusions that they have and whether they reach them in a reliable way or not. I think this strategy is going to be really great for us. I think it'll be great for everybody. And I'm looking forward to the day where anybody can talk to anybody about anything. All we have to do to do it is to do it. Thank you guys. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.