 Hello and welcome to the official AFC Bournemouth podcast coming to you from Vitality Stadium. We're here to bring you closer to some of the personalities connected to the club, from players, to staff and fans. For those of you who haven't tuned in before, my name is Zoe Rundle and I'm part of the media team here at AFC Bournemouth. I'm absolutely delighted to say that my colleague Neil Perrett is alongside me once again. He's going to help lead us through the next hour. Neil, it's great to see you. Great to see you too Zoe. Now Neil, we often talk about you as Mr Bournemouth but our guests today could certainly rival you for that title. Our current academy manager, a former youth team manager and even a brief spell as a club's caretaker manager. We're absolutely delighted to welcome Joe Roach onto the official AFC Bournemouth podcast. Thanks for joining us Joe. Yeah, good morning Zoe, good morning Neil. Well Joe, we've got plenty to get our teeth stuck into and we want to make sure we get through it all. Now before we get into the finer detail, can you just start by explaining the category structure to us? It's nothing like an easy question to start with. Yeah, the elite player performance plan basically is built around academies and the academies are categorised as category one, category two, category three and category four, with each of those categories having certain requirements in place. I believe and we believe as a club that we are operating as a category two. Currently training ground is in place in terms of the facilities we currently got. Staff levels are above category two levels and in some instances maybe even on the verge of category one. We've got a budget to support the categories as we are at the moment and certainly category two. The one thing that unfortunately we haven't got access to at the moment and there's nowhere and the conurbation has it is an indoor facility. And what benefits would there be to being a category one or category two team? Obviously you play in slightly different divisions and play different teams. Yeah, I suppose the blunt answer to that question is the Games Programme. The Games Programme for all age groups to develop the squad down to 18s, all the way down to under 9s will be completely shift across to a more competitive environment, more tournament opportunities against Southampton's Arsenal's, Charlton's, QPR's, no disrespect to the category three programme at all but that would take us to certainly the next stage of the programme where we would require to continue to improve our players. Joe, what are the drawbacks of being category three? I remember I spoke to Alan Connell, I think they won the league in, as you say, no disrespect to category three but they almost felt like they were playing in a field or something like that. So what would you say the drawbacks are? I think some of the drawbacks are the, you know, the sort of league that the club is in, the financial capacity for that club to support an academy programme and then obviously having access to the facilities that they would probably like at their level. You know, there are some really good category three academies and in our environment there are people working tirelessly to develop players in the environment they're in. It is what it is, a little bit like ourselves years and years ago. And obviously if we're looking to encourage players who have been released from cap ones to come to us, you know, would they want to come to a cap three? So we have to try and portray ourselves and get a commitment from the family and if they've got an agent or representative to buy into what we do. So we have to almost sell ourselves to try and make sure that a category one player, for example, doesn't decide to go to a category two purely because the game's programme is better. It is about the game's programme, it's also about making sure that we nurture and support the players when they're with us, whether we're a category three or one. And that's an internal thing, internal mechanism. Just to sort of confirm, just because you're in the Premier League doesn't mean that you're category one and just because you're in League Two doesn't mean that you're category four, it doesn't work like that. So if you get relegated or promoted, you don't, doesn't change your category. No, the only way you would lose your category, which hasn't happened yet, is if you're not achieving the standards that the audit team require or you financially can't. I mean, obviously there are clubs that have been category one who've gone to a category two and there are clubs that have been category two. A club, for example, has gone into a B team operation, so they've come out to the category programme and one could stay in a category four and have another level of competition for those older players. So it's probably trying to work out what is bespoke for you, but in essence the majority of Cat Ones are in the Premier League and the Championship. Obviously you know a great deal about this, Joe, not just in your role here. You mentioned the audit team there, didn't you? Now you've had some experience of working on that audit team, so you know exactly what's required. Yeah, I was fortunate when I left here in 2011 after a brief spell of trying to seek employment. I was fortunate enough to gain access to Double Pass, which is a Belgian company that audited the German leagues and they've audited other sports like Handball. The Premier League and Double Pass came together and they drove the elite player performance plan from the outset. Best CPD I've ever done, best insight to clubs. I was fortunate to go into clubs for four days initially. Look at all the training, look at all the games, look at the sport science programme, education programme, interview all those staff, interview the players, speak to the manager about the philosophy, speak to the CEO about investment, budgets, the sort of culture of the club, the vision of the club. I did approximately 25 clubs four days and then we did revisits for either reassessments or reports. So there was obviously then one or two days attached to different clubs who attain in different levels. So it gave me a real deep insight into the running of a cat one. And cat fours then were in audits, but certainly looking at cat threes and looking at the work that was being done and there was some unbelievable work being done in some cat threes. So 100% I'm not trying to come across as being critical to the environment, the category you were in because as you imagine with less staff you have to do more and some of those staff are under duress trying to produce players and with the limited facilities they've got or budget. But going back to the point you make, the opportunity for me to sort of have access to that was the best period of time I've had. And I'd like to think I've come back from that into this club and implemented some of the things I've seen. Certainly challenge the board to try and ensure we're supported in the areas I mentioned earlier to Zoe and the board have come up with the goods, the budget, supporting the training grounds, certainly supporting the staff levels. And there's been no question of their support in that regard. And I would obviously always want to and as anyone in my job would want to do is strive to continue to develop and probe and press and the indoor is obviously like we said before Zoe is the one thing that we need to get in place. Some clubs are very fortunate there are indoor facilities in their demographic and they can access it. You know without having to stump up three quarters of a million or £1.2 million wherever it might cost, we're not that fortunate. But we're going in that direction now, we're in conversations with a couple of things at the moment which hopefully will get us over that line in the not too distant future. Tell us how the dynamic works between you, Alan Connell, the under 18 manager, Sean Cooper, the under 21 manager. Just tell us how it all works. Well we all know each other. You know the one thing in terms of the staff levels we were bereft of a little bit. We had some fantastic part-time staff working for us. Lots of volunteers, we had, I think I did an analysis while back 289 people come through the door which doesn't provide continuity to players. So the one they had to do is try and make sure that we could look at the people we've got inside the club and certainly the ex-players experience of playing for the club and people like Alan, Sean, Warren, Gus, Stuart, Mark, Moseley were exceptional people. So going back to the point you made, it's very easy to have a discussion with people you know well. We're very much on the same track, trying to go in the same direction. I'll use my experience to try and assist them, you know, with Alan every 18's game. And they've all done terrific jobs and we've also got other people that are coaches who are developers so they're being supported by other people than me. So I think it's a really good fix. I think it's a fantastic environment. So about the culture and everything else, we complimented from the Premier League and the FL about this environment and the staff of which there are many. But those individuals we mentioned do a fantastic job. We're tirelessly for the benefit of the players and the support of our excellent staff. So I'm really fortunate A to have a relationship and to also have people that are fully focused on their job and not fixated on where am I going next. While we're on the subject of those coaches, we obviously have a lot of former players that are on the coaching team within the academy. Just tell us about the rationale of bringing them on board and you know, having their connections to the club and what it can help the youngsters for. Well, one of the odd points I said before is about the culture and the philosophy and values and everything else and if you don't have individuals in the workplace that have those or embody those or carry those things through then obviously you're going to have a bit of a problem. I think being around the first team as I have, fortunately, I've been around those players quite often. Going back to the point you make, when we looked at progressing as an academy, we looked at how we can negate the sort of ins and outs of various numbers of staff and players, we're getting different messages every other season or every season. So we had a technical board meeting at that time with Ed, Jason, Steve Purchase, Neil, Richard Hughes from Recruitment Point. We talked about how we can improve what we've got and the difficulty at the time was a lot of the people you mentioned were still playing. It had sort of come out of the top end of football on the plane, you know, the likes of Poole Town etc. So it was coaxing the outs of that environment because each of them started part-time. You know, Alan coming up in the under-12s, Mark Mosey, for example, coming up in the under-15s. You know, they didn't even walk straight into a full-time job because it was important they understood the rigors of the job and they started building up almost a two-boxer skills that can enable them to work at the level we wanted to go into. So we had an agreement that we would look at employing or developing ex-players and those ex-players that we felt had the skills, the mentality, the sort of, the humble side to them were also understood the club well. So again, you know, that was going to come at a cost for the club and we did that and I think at one point including the first team staff I just mentioned, we had 24 ex-players in the club involved in, you know, either the first team or development squad or academy and added to that, within that 24 we had some players like, I'll mention, Head for One who got released to 15, went and worked for the FA and he's one of these developers that I mentioned before who's supported Alan and Sean and Mark and currently does that with Warren, as does with Bruce Rassie who's had a coaching somewhere else. So it hasn't just all been about the first team players, it's about educating those players because clearly they're educated about how to play the game but coaching academy players and everything that we need to be doing is quite demanding. You know, Warren has come in, I asked Warren some time ago in his Bristol city, did he want to come into the academy to coach because I saw him in the first team change room, listened to him, he's certainly very knowledgeable but he said, now I'm going to stay with recruitment and he realised Alan and Sean were getting to grasp with the job in hand and were loving it and he jumped at it, found it difficult in the first year or so and he loves it and I think if you speak to all of those guys, they absolutely love their job and that was important making sure we got the bright people in, not people that were coming in for five minutes to jump to the first team and I'm delighted with the way that's gone. There's not many clubs that can probably sit there and say we've got that many ex-players at different levels and I must emphasise it's not been all about the players who finished playing professional football. We've got probably about five young players now who've not been successful gaining a professional contract but they did the coaching course while they were is and they've utilised that to then develop their coaching skills and they're working with us now part-time. So actually, you know, it's a very vibrant environment with people that know each other quite well, very healthy. Is that one of the real positives about coaching? You can take people who have such a knowledge of the game and they can apply their skill in a different way and you mentioned Warren there, you saw him in the change room you often had this sort of joker side to him and now he's out there and he's a brilliant coach and again he's turned his knowledge of football and passing that on to the next generation and I guess that's what's going to happen to those who haven't quite been good enough to make it and now are going to be out there on the coaching field. Warren hasn't lost any of his sense of humour and which actually is great. And I think the important thing for me was taking the opportunity for example, Sean come up to watch a game, an academy game because Alan was coaching it and you engage with him anyway he was very quiet in the change room his business on the pitch but you listen to him talk and you engage in a conversation you start working out the depth of knowledge he has that he can apply not every player can suddenly transfer that experience into coaching and I'm not going to name you know there's been some unbelievable players who play the very very top you know would find it hard to transfer that's either skill set or mindset or whatever else it is you know they can't go in and say this is how I played this is what I want you to do because they've got 18 young players all playing different positions with different attributes so you need to find the right person at the right time and place them in the right environment and that's where we've been very very fortunate and I think having known those players for a long time there's no doubt looking at them in the change room looking at them on the pitch, the humility and respect and hard work was transferable it was just making sure they understood how young academy players take So many coaches that we could mention but Sean Cooper are under 21s manager Alan Connor are under 18s manager you must be absolutely delighted with the impact that they've had they know each other well so they trust each other and I say they've integrated with the staff it's not just about the coaches I must emphasise that they're supported by and I don't want to mention every person because I would not want to miss anybody but from a departmental point of view they're supported by an unbelievable sport times programme the medical programme the recruitment programme to support the players coming in and the education and player care every department is functioning in a way that supports those two guys and I'm really pleased that and it's not about results the result is about putting people out on there and from to the manager but those players have gone out on the training ground under the managers and everyone has done well and that's a testament to the work that's been done from when they've come into the academy all the way through to Alan, Sean and then across to now the current management team Joe you mentioned Richard Hughes earlier just explain how the dynamic works with you and Richard and you and Simon Francis now I would imagine as well I've just had a conversation with Simon this morning because obviously he's not been in the building that long so we obviously want to utilise his energy and enthusiasm and I spoke to him today and he's really enthusiastic about the job I've just explained to him some of the background details are on the same page same with Richard we've got a technical board meeting that we have periodically but within that we also because it's hard to get all the main people around the table at the same time so I'll have incidental conversations with Richard about various things ranging from development how we can develop the training ground and obviously that's in collaboration with Neil Simon's on board now so hopefully that can lift a bit of the pressure away from what Richard is doing on a day-to-day basis and hopefully Simon can support me and the academy look at the way we can progress and obviously I've known Richard for a long time as a player and obviously Simon so it's another sort of golden nugget really that you wouldn't want to turn down I'm just probably flying the equipment sometimes always once, once, once, once but that's my job and I can be more supported by the individuals around me We know Richard and Simon and the recruitment team are responsible for the first team finding players etc would it be that they would ever sort of give you a 15, 16 year old lad and say do they do that as well or you've got your own recruitment team as well Well we've got one of the things that we were bereft of when we came here from the onset was recruitment we had volunteers doing the work which were brilliant, no money we progressed from that when I came back and again because of the audit process it was important we were able to get ahead of recruitment in Carl Robson who did a remarkable job in the time he's here and you've got Carl Fletcher obviously we shouldn't forget he was doing the 23s at the time and now he's loan manager so he will drip players in he's gone round different clubs looking for loans for us but people will obviously drop players in his ear we've had players come from him we've had players coming from Richard I'm sure Simon's got his feet on the table we look at players but we obviously then have to look at our own academy players as well because that's what we're investing in so those conversations need to be in line because everyone's given us players we've been well established in the Premier League we've got a good name for ourselves in the game we produce players but we've got to make sure we pick the right individuals we love you we love players coming from different people at different times for sure and I say I was speaking to Simon today Alan and Sean were on the phone talking about how we can get some more players in the under 21s to be looked at we've only got about an hour Joe and I know that the next question you could probably speak for days on end about this but it's not just playing football with these young lads they don't just come along there's a lot more going on I'm looking at education I'm looking at teaching them to coach people and you even have referees coming in teaching them to referee I believe just sort of expand on the day in the life of if you like yeah we've got I think going back to the earlier points so we can link together if we're looking at you know for example we'll use Jane Anthony at the moment at least by Arsenal and his agents or his family even looking at AFC Bournemouth is a plus he's got other options so the most important thing is we're honest and we tell him what we can provide he's in the environments I think they would see the environment as being a healthy environment and then we have to come up with the goods so we need to be totally transparent about what we can provide at our level so the education program for every parent is important because the drop off rate at the end is quite fast so we can say categorically that our education program we've had 100% completion of the program over the last five years which is incredible so that gives you facts that you can give to future players coming in as a family on top of that they do their coaching qualifications I mentioned before we've got Darren Kahn coming in on Monday at Brock and Ares College and Mr Scott we had Andre Mariner and Mr Kahn coming for a number of years and they were so complimentary about this in fact they wrote us an email sending the best group of players we've ever had this time we've been here so we get Premier League referees coming to provide them with the referees qualification twofold really so they understood they understand the officials on a match day and understand a little bit of the duress that they're under sometimes they understand the laws of the game so it's a learning process as well and then we do personal training qualifications at some time in that program I'll use Jamie Wiscan as an example who played for the first team on one occasion and now he's got his own private personal training company doing very well playing for Poole Town so at the time they come in they're not really looking at what happens in X amount of years of not here but we have to provide them with the tools that they may need in life at some stage and I think that's so important Brock and Ares College the provider we've been here since 2002 so they go back to the college now and the tutors are all engaged we've had the tutors for a long time so yes we can say categorically that they will have a good education experience while we're here Now I'm going to ask you to cast your mind back 20 years when you first came here I think Sean O'Driscoll appointed you now I know that Sean had been the youth team manager prior to that and I was also aware that the youth department whatever was temporarily scrapped for cost cutting reasons so there was no youth team for a period of time just tell us about that department or the area that you walked into 20 years ago Joe Well the ground was getting knocked down I was in the porter cabin Sean sold me a dream or I sold him one but no he was I have to say he was brilliant I was running a program on the Alawite Newport College football education program with Tony Mount Mason Mount Dad at the time so I think he got wind of me running that program he'd also had a member of his community staff on a coaching course which I run and I think he spoke quite highly of me during his time at the course so Sean approached me at the time I had an offer from Southampton which I didn't accept for a particular reason and he invited me in told me what had gone on you know they didn't have a youth team the centre of excellence was sort of operating but it was at a level and he said look we need to get this back on track what can you do I said well I've got some ideas I'm obviously doing a program I said I'll look at Brockinhurst College as an example because they had training fields whereas Bournemouth Pool didn't it was on a train line link so anyone recruited slightly out of area they could come in we didn't have a budget so the players didn't get paid there was no accommodation there was no travel costs so they were coming in under their own steam there was no they had to get their own medical insurance so we had boys travelling on the train from London dropping off at Brockinhurst so I'm looking at it all and going right okay my contract at the time had five jobs I was head of youth youth team manager education officer recruitment and centre of excellence manager so on top of trying to put the youth team back in place some way somehow with a limited budget I have to say it was then how do I run this so I had to try and prioritise firstly the conversation with Brockinhurst College would they buy into it and they were Neil Flanagan at the time was the link and he was brilliant yes but this will be the limitations and you have to I suppose this goes back to the education point you make he said that you have to ensure that these boys attain because the funding will only be there for attainment we won't get any funding if they don't attain so it's very important the lads come in with the determination to achieve their qualifications so I'll be tasked so the first thing I looked at doing is I need a centre excellence manager and I knew a colleague ex-colleague Derek Hould who came in and run that programme for me the next thing I had to sort of move was the responsibility for the community programme so I did some interviews I interviewed Steve Kuss who was at Torque at the time so clearly he had a desire for the community side of things so I brought him in that alleviated a couple of positions and then recruitment was basically just spread out to volunteers as I said before we had a couple of people involved in that early on Matty Holmes was great at a period which is just some time after that I think and then it was getting down to the roots and branches but really was the youth team so I had to then go through all the contact addresses of the parents and players that had been released at the time and we had a meeting out on King's Park on the grass it was a nice sunny day like this and sort of told them what I believed to be the way forward and you know would they buy into what I'm saying given the fact that they'd already been with us and then been let go and I think they were terrific we had some firm sort of footprints in the sand in terms of what I could say we were definitely going to do one of them was getting the program together and the education program but these are the deficiencies not everybody subscribed and I ended up running 17s and 19s so I had about 36 players in the end because the league was 17s and 19s and there was no such thing as development squad and really it was just hard work determination not just on my part but with other individuals that wanted to collaborate and move forward and that's where we started really we had one and a half pitches at Brocknest and that's what we trained on we had the use of the gym when it was timetabled away from students we had limited kit we had, as you'll probably remember was it Cherriesshire wherever it was or the buckets that were going around we had a red mini bus bought for us by the fans we had what do you need this time and it was I can have 20 footballs or we need some cones it was like that from hand to mouth really but you know what it was brilliant because every week every month you saw progression in some way shape or form and that's all you want really and me going down coaching was brilliant then I had to look at how can I operate a 17s and 9s group 19s group sorry I can't do that by myself can't split myself in two so the college employed a couple of coaches so that was brilliant so I had a couple of good coaches who worked with me Hughie and Hughie Lewis and Mark Kelly came in and did some work with me there and I had a part time physio sports therapist for want of a word that that I sorry Jordan Mooney was one the first one and then Kev Berry came in and later on Matty Holmes come down and to be fair to him he wanted to work with the Littlans and I have to compliment him that he did want to get caught up in the under 18s but he did some really good technical work and then you know I had a young man called Brian O'Donnell who played for the club who unfortunately passed away not too long ago he worked with the 16s worked a lot with Danny Ings gave me a lot of good feedback on Danny so I had different things going on but like I say I could usually allow us talking about that period and then the engagement with Sean and at the time Peter Grant and then Richard O'Kelly for me not being involved in coaching and professional football in a full time capacity they were fantastic they couldn't have been more open and sharing with me being on the bench on match days and seeing exactly what it looks like on the ground it was then easy for me to transfer a lot of the messages that the manager wanted and the system manager and the staff wanted to cross those guys when they were training and at some stage later I obviously took the reserve team so I was using the mix of the first team players and new team players which was really good for me so yeah it was quite a lot of progress in a short space of time and we stayed at Brockinhurst College until 2011 just talking about Brockinhurst College I was listening to an interview with Matt Tubbs on Radio Solent the other day he obviously works at Brockinhurst College on the youth on the youth ranks here and then he went to Bolton on the youth ranks and then he came back here as a pro does he have any input in our groups there and then he's obviously got a family now he actually chooses our group which is great because he's come on from a football background interestingly he came I'm glad you mentioned him actually he came from Bolton he'd gone up there when, I think it was when the youth team side of things had obviously gone a bit wobbly and he came back and he ended up being in my environment because we had that I think it might have been the 17s and 19s at the time he did come into Brockinhurst as he was in the group and he was fantastic his attitude I used to use him as a role model to the players this is the lad who's been through this journey he's been on the edge of not being involved and he's gone to Bolton again another situation where it's not gone the way he wants he's come back and his attitude this is what you guys need to be inspiring to he obviously played here so I knew him from previously we have looked at speaking to Mattie about coming in and doing some coaching but obviously at the moment he's doing the job there and he's doing football over there and obviously his family's developed but yeah, he's been in and he's got again the same enthusiasm and you know, sort of game intelligence that would enable him to be a good coach for you, obviously going back to Shawnaidra School his graduates he's got a great list of graduates here Eddie Howe, Carl Fletcher, James Hayter, Brian Stock the recruitment even in those days was still quite something yeah I think I can't say too much about what the recruitment might have looked like then because quite a few of those players were in but if you're looking at him recruiting and I'm sure knowing him he would have recruited the right people and I think every one of those players you just rolled off would pay Sean high regard and a lot of those players who are now in the coaching environment either here or somewhere else would say that they've taken the messages that he's given when they were playing and utilised them as well as they've added to their own their own personal development but because when I came here Mel was here Sean was here Mike Cordroy was here Peter Grant was here at the time and they obviously had their network of people that would bring players in but they obviously had the youth pro me which Sean was part of as you mentioned before so some of those players he would have probably brought through that environment into the first team and obviously had some of those players at Doncaster as an example so he would have been a great mentor for those players to where they are now I'm sure there was obviously a relegation 2002 and then the year later there was a promotion does that have any bearing on the academy does it mean that maybe more players might get a chance in the first team does it mean that costs a cut does that affect an academy in any way we had been very fortunate Sean was very very very much on making sure that the academy or the centre of excellence it was then was portrayed within the club it was the community it was part of the community from a fan point of view from a recruitment point of view that that needed to be at the heart of the club you know so whilst Sean was here there was no question and goes back to the reason why I'm here you know his desire to make sure that programme was in place was part of the reason why he approached me you know there was never a time through all the perils there was one occasion actually when we had to discuss the sort of the purpose of the youth team and I did a presentation in this very building and I don't think there were certain individuals there that understood that we had below the youth team we had a centre of excellence of over 140 boys there was a discussion about you know the financial sort of weight on running you know a first team, a club centre of excellence and sustaining that obviously the youth team were sort of not costing to a degree you know we didn't have to pay for the facilities, the part-time staff etc but when I actually did my presentation I said right okay fine this is what we're going to do who's going to tell the parents of 150 young players and their brothers and sisters that were thinking about doing this and then someone went 150 players we haven't just got 18, 19, I went now and this is the time when there was individuals who were supporting were working in other environments and came together so it was interesting and then on another occasion we had the players parade around the stadium I think it was towards the end of the season every young player and I've mentioned this to Geoff and Steve Sly were on the touchline and I stood directly behind them and there was just a conversation about you know how much it costs and things like this and the parade of players were going round and it looks like quite a volume of people and the crowd were applauding them and I remember Geoff turned around to Steve and going well he said we've got to carry this forward it had been very very easy at the time with all the pressures that those guys were under to go okay yeah fine we need to move on so what I'm trying to say is at any stage at no stage have we or I been in fear of removing the program like other clubs have done and even coming out of the Premier League Neil tasked me with you need to be looking at this so obviously you start worrying a little bit but I've given a budget we've trimmed sensible things back and we're going forward so of course football's driven by results, promotions, relegations and you know the business plan has to fit in where we are at that given point in time but in all the 20 years I've been here I've not been concerned personally about longevity it's just me being greedy or selfish to try and get more and more and more and more which is not always possible but I can't stop if I stop it's the point that's me being here it must be very reassuring for you when you think about the longevity of it because we've seen in the last few years Brentford's have sort of made cuts in their academy, Birmingham recently making cuts in their academy for you knowing that there's a backing here and knowing that there's a support here must be so reassuring for you and your staff I think the easiest thing for any club to have done is looked at the impact of the Premier League the benefits and then the drawbacks and the financial input the owner who obviously is finances can't speak highly about his commitment and actually continuing that in all the ups and downs so you're in the Premier League great and then suddenly you're staying relegation in and it could have been easy to say well let's look at a cat four for example Huddersfield could have been cat one in my opinion because I did their audit everything in place would be a cat one in my opinion but they went another big club and they removed it because they were getting picked off by bigger clubs, I think the thing here is we're fortunate in some way with recruitment, you mentioned before is that there's not a raft of clubs if that's the right word there's not a number of clubs on our doorstep we've got Southampton, our nearest neighbours and then we've got the sea behind us I keep saying we've never recruited a fish so that's a waste of journey we've got the new forest on one side but then we can capture our own players it's an affluent area so we need to work really really hard with our players, they're not in the city kids but these clubs who operate sometimes have the vision of being a cat one and I said before I'm not going to name the club but I think one club particularly went cat four because they were getting fed up of developing players and they were getting picked off the commonsization that some clubs pay is derisory for the work that they put into them and owners would go what a point so they'll have a different business model and they'll shift the model to suit themselves and that's where the cataries are great but people should have the capacity to go in the direction they want I'm not, if I've got to be honest which I want to be I'm not in favour of the deal breaker being having an indoor and I've stated this publicly to the Premier League and the FL I think if you're committed and you have investment and you have the drive and energy over time and a budget with staff levels and you have the facilities we've got which are fantastic currently should it be that you're indoor is a deal breaker I don't think so but that's an argument that's ongoing if we have to do then we have to do I think we should be recognised and supported for the work that's gone on and the commitment from the board, the owner management and what we're doing internally rolling back the years one player who did attract to the club was Brett Pittman he was probably one of your first real success stories just tell us a bit more about how he found his way to the club obviously he's not from Bournemouth no he's not, he's a Jersey boy I can't actually remember what really come to my attention I knew that Sheffield United and I think Man United and Southampton had been looking at him or interested bizarrely the current training round we've got eight pitches which is great and a show pitch was then occupied by one local team I think it was Brands Gore or something and they I think used one and a half pitches the training rooms the changing rooms weren't the biggest so constantly we couldn't probably afford that capacity of ground so Brett had his trial game against Oxford on what we call pitch 4 and he'd been into training with me at Brockhurst and he obviously had certain attributes you know he when you look at him on the pitch we know what his nickname was people's perception of him in terms of his pace I think was wrong you know he wasn't the smoothest mover in some ways so and I think he was very good at golf he lived on an island so that sort of island mentality if he screws up his phrase we went through the training program and us off and really when we were doing sessions there's no finishing or anything else not on question I was just trying to maybe get into his head a little bit and maybe correct some things if that was possible and then we had the game against Oxford and I don't think he scored he did okay in my opinion he probably didn't get the service that he needed at the time because I think he was on trial and the other guys were all trying to get their own sort of places in the sort of environment first team as well and luckily fortunately for us as a club given his record we had a tour arranged for Jersey and we'd used to play a team a senior team can't remember who we played now and then we were going to play Jersey under 18s and I met his family who were lovely and I said look I just haven't seen enough but we got this opportunity I would have brought him back but we had the opportunity at Jersey so it was on his homeland so maybe it might have been a bit more settling from and he played and he scored four games in the first game against us and everyone of them was different and then he played the next day I think it was for the 18s I think he scored one or two and he'd come off because obviously he played the day before and I looked to my left and looked to my right to the other staff and I went I didn't care what he does he scores goals so we're going to take him and you know that was not a difficult decision because you look at a goalkeeper sorry a goal scorer who can score from outside the box 30 yards inside the box, 2 yards header over a kick, diamond header free kicks at some point not every player can take every box, it's what you need him to take and he could take the most important boxes in my opinion and we worked with him, I mentioned him to Sean and Sean and Peter has come down to the training ground well sorry, Chapelgate to watch the games as much as they could and at one game I think he scored from 30 yards he scored a free kick and he went poof and he'd obviously seen a player he knew Sean, he knew a player and then he went right okay and I think not in this order but we played Exeter away and I obviously drove the minibus as you do then and I got a phone call on the way in the morning from Sean saying we need Brett and I went well a mile away to Exeter so I end up having to hand across the keys well not the keys sorry I drove the bus and I had to get him back he was sharpish and luckily we got back and I think he went on the bench and the next day I still had time to go to the next day I think it was another game he went straight to education the next morning but people have said to me what did you do with Brett in terms of your development and I could be very blasé and say oh did this, did this, did this I couldn't teach him to finish I can only teach him to understand the environment and just try and make sure that he kept not focused that's the wrong word but his determination for other stuff was paramount because he's such a laid back character he's like he is now then having a conversation where you almost have to engage with him and the more you engage with him the bigger the conversation is and so he hasn't changed in that respect in many ways but as we all know what great finisher and obviously he proved a lot of people wrong about his pace I think it was a goal out there when he's gone from the half way wherever it was when he's gone from the half way and left people in his wake so he certainly could utilise his attributes at the right time at the right moment A bit disrespectful there of Zoe to drop Brett's sir title Joe Sir Brett Pittman we like to call him he made his debut against Torquina League Cup in 2005 Joe and like you've just said there you know someone else might have seen him in that Oxford game and thought no he's not for us and you'd never seen him again what goes through your mind when he steps out on that pitch and makes his debut? Show me something if you're talking about the Oxford game I'm talking about making his first team debut Zoe's going to be the worry Zoe's going to be what I know he can do and whether they can do it and how long they're going to be in the manager's eyes because he could go on I won't go tub another player at the moment but he could go on and make a couple of errors and then very quickly he's not there so you almost worry a little bit I probably get as anxious watching the players playing then probably managing myself on the sideline or on my own sort of environment and then when Summit clicks the euphoria for everybody, not just me but other staff that's working with the individuals so yeah you just hope he does really well and you hope he does what he can do A couple more players Sam Vokes, Josh McCoyd Local Lads, Livington Boys Sam was only 17 when Kevin Bond plucked him to make his debut against Nottingham Forest Josh was also around at that time as well just massive feathers in the cat for the academy and the staff Again I'll go back to the point I made earlier when you look at their commitment and the commitments of the family when you look at what we couldn't provide for them for them to sign up to us and believe in what we were doing or I was saying we would do and then to suddenly have the opportunity Sam was a really interest someone because at the time we were slightly bereft of strikers and the members being in the office with Kevin I think they were talking it might have been Mike at the time or something about recruitment of players and they mentioned somebody and then they obviously come to me and said who have you got on the wings? I had two strikers one was Sam and one was another player and they were talking about playing in Nottingham Forest out there in the first team game so the first thing that comes to mind is the point I made before the anxiety being anxious and that's me watching them the best fit for the occasion Sam was not laid back in a negative way but he was very calm how he did his business physically developed and I had a choice to make between these two players and I said to Kevin in my opinion given the occasion this is what you'll get and this is what you might not get because obviously we have to consider his age and his stage of development and if you remember he went out there and I think the first three out of five movements he slipped on his bum and Kevin's looked at me and gone what's he doing? and I went I've got an idea so when the halftime whistle went I walked on the pitch and I went have you got moulded boots on? and he went yeah are you stupid? I said you're playing a debut against Nottingham Forest on the first team pitch and it was an evening game so you got moulded on and I'd repeatedly told the players this is your footwear this is what you wear this is where you take and he changed his boots and he did some good stuff and then afterwards with the boots on and I'm not saying he had but he obviously impacted the game and again his sort of history and I went on to the pitch at the end of the game I said well done I said but you know that could have been your last game and I use that when I speak to other players about your preparation your mindset making sure you're ready because he clearly wasn't ready having said that his mindset was probably right his mindset was right but the toolbox i.e. his boots not and that could have changed history in many ways you know he was one someone said to me where do you think you'll end up playing and I did make a statement at that time in my opinion and he surpassed that conversation 10 fold seeing him with that flick head we got patio doors luckily they were open because I was out the doors around the garden when you see someone like that as a coach that just you can work as long as you want in the industry and particularly when you're talking about an environment that struggled like this did to see that moment on national TV beamed across everywhere is just like and you know what great lad great family his brother was in Matt who was under pressure because obviously Sam had done that well I bumped into Matt the other week who was doing unbelievably well in a business building construction thing so there's another story of another player who's been here but has had another fantastic opportunity through his career and focussed on his education so yeah that was a story with Sam how it all sort of come about and then obviously he kept his theoretical position in the side and went to Walsden and moved on to Berlin he had a number of loans and some injuries and I met him in Christchurch through the week it's just like talking to them when they're 16-17 but with a lot more smarter clothes on one player we have to talk about Danny-ing tell us about him tell us about his development and tell us about how proud you are when you see him out there in the Premier League scoring all those goals he played for Liverpool for a start that's a good start he's a really really interesting one his dad Shane had him so there's this conversation about he was released for Southampton and all that whatever but I think he played for his dad's team I think it was Netli or something like that and he was obviously from Winchester area and he'd come to our attention I think he'd had some trials over in the development centre Southampton or something like that and none of us he'd come to our attention and he'd come in I think it was under 15's and Derrick Hold brought him in Brian O'Donnell I mentioned and a couple of other coaches I think Jim Toczik in that work with him at the school boy ages and very quickly I obviously watched got reports from him and got him over to work with us at Brocknair because we had under 16's he was coming in on a day release at Brocknair so he worked in there and I think he had a reserve team game at some stage very early on for me the players I'd worked with he was probably one of the most technically proficient players I'd worked with as a young player he was overzealous sometimes with referees and whatever which is great shows a really enthusiasm and determination for the game and hunger desire to do well he had unfortunately some injuries but there's certain games when I look back I think there was a game we played against Millwall and I'm thinking about when it got closer to decision time we played Millwall who then were a decent academy good players it was a friendly and he played up front I think he put three of the Millwall players on the bump scored a goal as he can do and then I don't know what happened but I ended up having to play him in midfield and he slotted in there looked like he could have played in midfield when something happens you know he's got it if he can adapt himself and apply himself in that moment and he can still produce the attributes that's required in that position and he can do that he's a right foot to play, he's playing on the right hand side but actually I think in my opinion he played better on the left and now he's found this sort of middle area as he's developed like Adam Larnor as to be fair but character attitude you know he struggled a little bit, the family struggled a little bit if they don't mind me saying you know we had to support him with a council grant applied to the Hampshire council for him to get a bursary we then had to try and find accommodation for him and he was put into accommodation providers who lived in Highcliff who he still has a great relationship with and you know and unfortunately I think the Liverpool fans as well so that helps and the injuries became a bit of an issue because clearly we just couldn't carry people over because of the finances at the time and by the conversation Ed was the manager at the time I said look we have to do something with him we can't turn away, Ed hadn't seen a great deal of him because he'd been injured and whatever at the critical time I said look hand him a hat, you've got to do something so he said okay fine we'll give him a three month contract and he needs to be playing games because we won't be playing around the first team so we're going to have to do it just as you'll know I suppose I wouldn't say the rest is history because he's had a journey since then but he's certainly got games under his belt he's certainly got goals under his belt he got himself to a level of fitness again he got match competitive, ready and obviously he came back and slotted in and again without using paraphrase it's sort of the rest is history I suppose he was a really interesting character I think there was a missed quote some time ago it might have been from you Neil that he was a bit of a nightmare I actually spoke to him about this because I felt really guilty because I thought oh god if that's gone out in the domain in that way it'd be like a little bit like Sam you know where's your boots and for me it'd be like Danny where's your textbook where's your pencil because that might sound really bizarre coming from someone who's trying to coach players but if I'm telling families and parents that the whole program is important the players have to respond they have to buy in so they need to subscribe to the education program because if you don't the college won't be doing it anymore and then we will go back to the point you make so we won't have a U-Team program that's where we go so I was a pain in the backside where's your pen, where's your tutor book and I was doing the NVQ program for them as well so I had to mark stuff oh I'm not doing your stuff Danny and it was on and on and on but if you're persistent the penny drops and I think if you spoke to any manager to work with them and I'll go back to Liverpool again if you speak to Jürgen or Alex Singlethorpe or Neil Critchley at Liverpool they will speak so highly of him he's injured and working with the young players and being a mentor he's done charity store fees again I don't know what it is I think maybe if I can be personal about myself I think my military background and having been in different positions different domains working with different people who obviously military you can work people out and you can see things that maybe other people can't see innately and you hope that will come to the table and I think the players that we've mentioned at young ages who all want to be professional football players all think they are all have to still go through a journey and I think you've got to keep demanding and demanding and make them resilient because when they get in this industry you know and he's going back to Danny he's had other injuries clubs and his resilience and robustness and bounce ability is proven and he's come back and in some ways he's come back better that's all you can ask because that is someone who's playing at an elite sport and level that is competitive and honest hard work and determined and you know so so pleased for him and his family that he's now reaping the other benefits of playing at the level he's playing I wish I could misquote Danny Ings Joe because the last couple of times I tried to get hold of him he's pied me but I do remember him being one of the most articulate 17 year olds I'd ever interviewed when he was here and it really took me by surprise how intelligent he was and what have you but I was going to say for every Danny Ings for every Sam Vokes there are hundreds and I'm going to use the example of Carl Preston's a lad who got his chance under Jimmy Quinn and had Jimmy still been the manager for a longer period of time probably would have made a lot of appearances and who knows what could have happened Jimmy lost his job, Eddie took over Eddie obviously didn't fancy Carl and then as we know Carl ends up West Six League whatever that's a change of manager can affect academy players so much Joe 100% if we talk about the present we've been fortunate to have the players we've had under the new management the realities of the game is that those opportunities hopefully are there I think the young players currently I'll come back to the point you make the young players that have grasped that opportunity at the moment have definitely been in the manager's eye first team management the week Matt Wells we had a really good long chat and he couldn't compliment the young players highly enough about not just their attributes but their manner the way they go about the building so they can be in and they can be out Carl Preston for me the two games he played exceedingly well I think one was Bremford the other one was Port Vale I think but I'm not too sure but he's a wide left player quick, direct could be people and okay that snapshot unfortunately got taken away from Carl I actually seen him quite a few months ago it took me a while to recognise because he's grown up a bit but I've got to say at this point I can't every player I can remember and if you want to tell me differently please do every player that's gone out there and had a snapshot if you want to call it has done well enough in my opinion, not one of them I think I've looked and I've gone, when you made the point about what you like sitting in the stand, not one sort of a gone you know and go back to Billy Frank's Matt Finlay, Jamie Whisken for that Cammy O'Pearance, Carl Preston all you the players have gone in there they've done really well because they know what they're supposed to be doing tell me something Joe you come across as a nice guy what's it like to shatter a young player's dream by telling them there's no future for you here, does that sort of thing get any easier? it doesn't but it does if it makes sense because I speak to staff about within reason there shouldn't be that's not talk about the people who in the first team or first team squads, let's talk about the lads 16's, 18's or younger they should be in a process where they understand where they are and if we're honest enough that the family and in support of their young boy would be given in the feedback that when that time comes there's almost a preparation for it that is not always the case there are stories of people being cajoled and told they're doing really well getting asked by families or the players asking oh you're doing really well that's great don't worry about this and suddenly they have a meeting and say well unfortunately we're not going to carry you forward that shouldn't happen it might happen that conversation that happens to be held in a changing room or else because that's the logistics of the thing we need to make sure we're honest and not get too close to the parents because that event may very well happen at some stage and yeah that's all to say but there are some I mean I've only seen the program on BBC the night about the agents and things like that some of the stories of the players have been promised and then dropped and they're now not involved you know there is a big drop off we know that but can we make that drop off more transparent more clear and give them an opportunity to move so we had we got the development centres at the moment so we have an option of where we think we can place them so there's a plan B certainly there's a plan B with the under 18s in terms of you know scholarship in America or we send information out to all the clubs a level or a level below us so the family and the player knows we're trying to do the very best we can and a lot of parents will accept the fact that they're sensible enough to say yeah we understand this but we've had a fantastic journey you know we've had lads who've been released to 18 I used James Oliver whose family were fantastic he got released by Sheffield United came to us, didn't get a development score contract and he was going round the environment and the family wrote his letter probably year after he'd gone he still hasn't got a club and he couldn't compliment the staff the program and how he's developed life skills because we need to make sure on top of what we've said about releases we'll provide life skills for these people more so obviously 16s or 18s and above because they need to have another career this year obviously Joe, under the new manager we've seen plenty of young talent break into the first team we can mention Jordan Zamora Jaden Anthony, Gavin Kilkenny, Mark Travers in goal is number one, we've seen Zenoibs and Rossi in there too, for you that must make you extremely proud to see players some players that we've had from a young age some players that we've only brought in from under 18s or under 21s, making that step up into the first team No, that's right, I think the story there's been a lot of negatives about academy football and the drop off and the percentage and and I think when you look at those players 11 that we had in the squad 2 hadn't played academy football in Mark Travers and Gavin, they come from southern Ireland and 6 came from being released either at one club, 2 clubs or 3 clubs so that robustness or resilience to overcome that I think the most important thing for us is when they come in is to make sure they felt they were in an environment that they could trust because some of them might have been told things that they didn't believe at the end that when they were getting released point you make before Neil about them getting dropped so I think we need to make sure when we're meeting the family and if they have got an agent this is what we do, this is why we do it this is what we can provide we'll be honest and we'll give them some evidence for example you know if the parents are very keen because they've already been released they see the perils of maybe not being in the game, education is going to important and we can identify that you know we've had this success 100% education we can provide an A level at this level for us which is difficult and you hope that the family take the opportunity I think once they come in on trial and they work with the staff they quickly realise it's a safe environment and they can trust because you've got like an open door policy we want players to be comfortable enough to talk quite a humble environment and then you hope with that there'll be an element of success and the success might be that they go from 16 to 18s and we have to say you know goodbye or hopefully they move on to the development squad the lottery is being in the first team so the point I make is that albeit there's lots of unfortunate stories I think there'd be very few clubs that would have had the opportunity to have had that many players in the squad at the same time under the manager's eye been on tour been looked at, been scrutinised can certainly come up with the goods and when called upon I think the management team would say that they could rely on them so collectively from bringing them in through the recruitment process educating them, coaching them developing them physically you know, Christine was one that clearly needed to have more physical development into him Zeno was injured twice and the medical support and the rehabilitation for him and working in his head meeting him when he's injured thinking about where he is and then for him to go to Heberney and then come here and establish himself and Gary Cale will put him out the team is not a bad substitution you know I think the whole academy staff are delighted you know I'm sure the board are delighted with the investment because those players now put a marker in the sand and it was important that we at this moment in time because clearly you know the team, the club have to look at trying to get back in the Premier League and they have to recruit but the opportunity that the management team have given them has established them I've mentioned before about parents and some of the players that we now see in the first team people like Jordan Zamora his trial game was for the under 21s Gav Kilkenny and Mark Travers you say he hadn't played academy football when you're trying to lure them in you know you talked earlier about James Oliver and how pivotal his family was how much is it about trying to convince the family and I mean at this age some of them even have agents as well yeah I mean sometimes it has to be that you're all around the table and we tend to be certainly when we brought not those players when we signed every player but some of those players would have come in maybe just after the pre-season started so we'd already had our meetings where our own players and they'd come into a room they'd have myself Alan Karl Robson whoever the medical person was at the time because that's obviously changed so Sarah or Jess or whatever and they'd have Dawn and I think mentioned Karl Robson so we'd have a table with all the key people in that were going to be involved in their journey and we'd obviously trial them by that time and we were going to offer them and quite a few of them probably would have had other offers some of them may be from a cat too have them in a cat one player so it's a challenge to try and sit there and talk about what you think you can provide but I say it's important that you're honest and they believe in what you're saying and I think when they get around the table with those people I think I would say that they would certainly listen to what we're saying I think they would have had a good experience in the training environment you know that's also integrating with the players the young players that we have also ensure that those players are integrated so they feel comfortable bearing in mind they've been released which is a bit of a big drop we have at the same time lost players in that same position who've decided to go to a cat two for example because they want to play cat two football which is fine so we haven't captured every player we'd like and some of them I won't particularly go into the individuals but some of them have been a longer burner to get here and I'm talking now about the ones who are in the squad now they haven't just come in at 16 they've come in at 18 they've still had to go through a journey they've still had to learn to be resilient, robust they've had to go on a loan experience some of them are good or not so good we've got current players on loan at the moment so what you've got in front of you is as a cat three we can say these are the players we've had on loan these are the players we've had in the first team these are the players that are currently training with the 21s who are 16 or 17 there's a way that another bigger club can say this is what we do as a cat three we can show them the evidence and I think it's easier by then to convince to a degree the players and parents and then we need to make sure we keep in good communication with them the communication before that point is also very tight we're engaged with them so it's not as if we're just getting in on trial and then we'll see what happens there's the communication so the parents already feel comfortable with the personalities that are going to be sat around the table because not as if suddenly they don't know who Alan is or Dawn is or Carl they've already had that contact and I think that makes it a little bit easier and don't get me wrong we're not successful with everyone everyone doesn't sit around that table many of them we go we've had some really good footballers that are probably in some ways this might sound bizarre better but go back to the early points we said about what is it you see if I see someone I don't like then I won't sign Josh McCoy, Sam Surridge, Bailey Cargill all fairly local and I know that we have local players in the academy ranks I know a couple of guys who are in the non-league circle around here their sons are involved I won't name them but Mark Travers, Gavin Kilkenny Jadon Anthony, Jordan Zamora, Zeno they're not local you've had to cast your net wider in the last few years just sort of explain why you've done that I lied to all the other things we've been talking about one of the areas where we had an issue was recruitment and I remember meeting with senior members of the club that we said we need to have a better strategy so we only had local scouts so would the club invest in some external contacts not at great cost, which we did I said I wasn't going to mention names individually at staff in case I missed them but as we're talking about that particular process then Carl Robson at the time he became head of recruitment turned his head away from some coaching stuff he did, totally focused on recruitment built up a good relationship with people away from here certainly particularly around London and I think once you get a player come in from either an agent or a club and they looked after and they do well then that club in itself then things born with them are bad so you have not just a scout an agent or a mate you have a club that recognises what you're doing you have an agent or you have a family so you build up a wider network maybe just people that are involved in football and then you can use that example as you were saying before when you talk about figures of stats this player came in exactly the same stage as you was released, look at where he is now this is what we've done look at his education profile all these lads come in, look at him now you've talked about America, this lad's gone to the USA he forged a career there now and that's because it's important they look beyond the here and now because that's sometimes going to be the end of the journey so we developed that network if you like and that's reaped as you've mentioned there with the roll-outs of players that's reaped huge benefits and of course there's been, you know, Gavin and Travis come through another source indirectly but that's another contact from someone had so it recommends all about contact-contact who knows who knows who who's where we are we're not, you know, all over the place as an academy, we're quite limited a similar theme to that one Joe, a Jani Birch or Remy Coddington, two players unearthed in Bermuda or on Bermuda now I know that they've left the club but the club did recoup or certainly benefited financially from their departures here just explain that link with Bermuda seems an odd one, if you like well, what happens when I came after returning from the Premier League I obviously did a roots and branches of what we were doing and what we weren't doing what I could implement, utilising at the time we had a young player in goalkeeper in goal, on trial and I inquired who he was and he said he's over, he's half-time, he's over from Bermuda I went, oh, okay, I was that worth and he said one of the local scouts is Bermuda and he's got him over and they've had a couple of lads and another leg come over who was in the U-Team on trial from Bermuda with Carl Fletcher myself and we were making a decision on whether we would take him or not and so, well, I'm not too sure I said, I'm not too sure how much he's done to this point and then we just talked about Bermuda and they wanted to bring a group of players over, a younger group I said, look, let's not wait is it not easier to go out there, have a look at the culture have a look how they train and so Bermuda, FA, we contacted and they said, yeah, we can come out will you do a CPD and talk about Bournemouth talk about coach education, about what you're doing and see where they can develop a link so myself and this scout who lives locally, Andy Pell he arranged the programme I feel like said, okay, we'll go so we went over there for a week and people go, you went to Bermuda for a week it was honestly really hard work I had one day, we're a sort of beach which is the day before we flew back we went round virtually all the teams training, watching training watching games did a presentation to Bermuda and FA and what was really interesting it's strange over there because a lot of the clubs like the sort of grass root teams, all were isolated it was all like rivalry type things so they didn't actually collaborate very much so it was all like disparate that's the right word and when we advertised the CPD, every club representative if not two or three and Bermuda and FA were like, wow because they wanted to gain information and be updated on some so they went to aware what it was going to be about and then we went to the Bermuda training environment which is like an astro on I don't know what day it was and I was watching, it was an under in fact bizarrely I think in this book it's weird in this book there were another 12 games North Village were playing against one of the other teams and there was a number 10 and a number 6 playing under 11's and I just spotted them and there was things they did the athletic really good manner good characters over there I found that out on my visit if you've ever been to the Caribbean the type of individual that lives there I believe I thought they look not bad I just noted there that's weird I just remembered in this book and both families had an education background, a family member and a lot of the mutants tend to go to the USA to explore universities and play football and the families decided to come to Bermuda because there had been a conversation via me via whatever and they went to the collegiate school so they both went to the same school and we then tried to get them registered with us there was some red tape around the clearance stuff and everything else because I suppose from the league point of view they looked at two players coming from the same place to the same school potentially the same club but it was just the way it happened that families wanted to get away they didn't want to go to America and they had this contact here anyway and some family members lived in the UK so they made the choice to come across so that's where it started it was about basically me seeing what they did so I could, if we got any other players coming across I knew what level of training they were doing I knew what level of game tactical understanding they had so when we were looking at going back to this midfield player I could see potentially what they may be short of and whether we could provide that missing piece that was the idea, so that's how it sort of evolved and in terms of Remy and Asyani they progressed we had an opportunity play Remy left to go to West Ham Asyani was a bit younger and we a couple of things happened and football is all about opportunity and taking that opportunity and sometimes timing Covid stopped us bringing trialers in there were some injuries so in the 18s we had the opportunity to play Asyani more often which normally didn't happen because we got quite healthy a bunch of undraised ains and Asyani played in the FA Youth Cup in the first half did really well probably the best player on the pitch and there was quite a lot of scouts so they obviously recognised his talent and as we said the rest is history Well Joe it's been an absolute pleasure having you here with us today really enjoyed your company and your stories and fingers crossed we see plenty more academy graduates out there playing for the first team at Vitality Stadium I hope that I've portrayed the work that's been done in the academy by everybody not me there's honestly unbelievable staff hugely supported by the club so we're in a great place moving forward I thank both of you for the time to be able to present this for you Now then if you've enjoyed listening to our podcast we would absolutely love it if you could like and subscribe on whatever platform you're listening on we'd also be very grateful for any shares that other fans, be it AFC Bournemouth related or the general football fan can enjoy it too Our thanks again to Joe Roach and from Neil Perret and myself Zoe Rundle thank you for tuning in to the official AFC Bournemouth podcast