 And today we're going to talk about how we can prepare translation assignments for the language class, particularly keeping in mind that many of you probably have been heritage learners in your classes. So how many of you like to use translation activities in language learning. And how many of you were told that is a bad thing to do. How many of you were told don't do it. Right. Why did they tell you not to do it. What's wrong with translating in a language class. You're not ready for that right. Yeah, in English, we don't always use the same tenses it doesn't line up in Spanish, we love progressive tenses in English, we don't love them in Spanish, any things like that. What else. You're missing the context right where we don't want to do that literal translation. So right now, I'm going to have you go to. I also use Mentimeter. I thought I was being unique and creative. It don't says. But I don't have the qr code so maybe that makes me different. Maybe that's how they that's how. Let's see. So I am present yet. Oh, but you can't see my screen is showing this. Let's see. Maybe there is another screen. She's really the only one that can make this happen. And it says, look, my screen is showing this, and nothing changed up here. Yeah, here it's showing. Right. What am I missing. Okay. Change. Okay, can you get out of. Let's do in show. Okay. I'm sorry about that. Okay, we. So let's go to mental calm and go to that code. Jonathan with qr code, but you know. So go to mental.com. And then those numbers. Yeah, if you don't want to be, you know, famous you don't have to use your real name. You just put in a name. Yeah. Yeah. And I'll go ahead and get started and as, as more of you get to mental calm you can either do it on a cell phone or a computer. You can add to the conversation. So let's just work on a scale first. First, maybe one about yourself, and then one about your heritage learner student. Maybe you could say whether you strongly disagree, or strongly agree, or somewhere in the middle, find that you are a competent translator. And then whether or not your heritage learner students see themselves as translators. Yeah, look at that we mostly feel like we are. Translators and our students somewhat see themselves as translators to why do you think our students, many of them have not taken an official translation class why do they see themselves as translators because they have to do it all the time. I agree. They do it for their parents. Yeah. Okay, see the numbers people. This one to translate something well, you just need to know both languages. I need you to know the words. Totally disagree. What about I know how to develop a learning activity. I guess it could have said translation. I will tell you my, my biggest it's well it's really an interpreting fail it wasn't a translation fail, but I used to work in college teaching English classes at a church. And now and then they would say, Oh, well, Emily's the bilingual thing and so let's just have her interpret for us. Right. And I didn't grow up in a church but I was like, I know lots of words so I can totally do this. And, well, the guy kept talking about La Santacena La Santacena La Santacena and I was going in my head I was like I'm such a good translator, because I'm going to call it the holy dinner. I'm going to call it the holy supper because I was like, I know it's not the holy dinner because dinner sounds like it and supper sounds like fancy. So the whole time I thought I was just hot stuff. Talking about the holy supper I felt pretty great. And then at the end, the guy said yeah, good interpreter but did you mean to sit communion. And I just kind of wanted to like melt into the floor because I thought that I was making all these decisions I knew it wasn't dinner it had to be suffer that sounds better. So just though I knew the words, I hadn't grown up in a church atmosphere, I didn't know those words in context, even though I knew what they meant at a superficial level. And me, my, my interpreting experiences sales in that sense. Okay, well, and you kind of have some ideas about how to develop a learning activity. So we're going to look at today. We'll explore a few more impressions first. What's that you like about translating. It stresses me out sometimes, but it's also really enjoyable. Maybe you can add a phrase of something. I'll wait until I get three or four. I'll show you some very creative translations today. Just share something that you're working at your own pain, making a text accessible. We're going to talk a lot about social justice and language access today. It's funny to see different senses of humor. Yeah, have you ever had to try to translate a joke? It never goes well. Feeling useful. Yeah, things are open to interpretation. Deep reflection on language use. Yeah, because you have to make a lot of decisions at a micro level. Many decisions at the same time, learning words. It's useful. I'm going to scroll down because many of you had lots of ideas. Translation definitely doesn't suck. It is something that's enjoyable to us. And I think our students find that too. Okay, so why is it so hard? We know that it's fun. What makes it difficult? Like me saying the Holy Seper instead of communion for probably about 30 minutes. Oh, yeah, it's something else. It's a body part. Yeah. Yeah. Or how do you think? How do you think that jewel? When am I coming? It's different cultures. So let's see. It's difficult because it requires training. People think differently lack of knowledge. So many different cultural literacies. And it wasn't just that I was unfamiliar with US culture when I couldn't say communion. It was that I thought I was familiar with culture, but I wasn't that familiar with church culture in England. So I was still missing a subculture that didn't, that kind of kept me from translating well. Okay, so accomplished translators do well. I won't dwell on this one, but we'll see a couple of you have ideas about what accomplished translators do well. Maybe you haven't done much translating, so you're not sure. But they really have to take in both culture, right? They have to take in both context. Anything else? Accuracy. Not change meanings. They know how to compare. They have trained. Now, but if you have some ideas that would be interesting. Translation has kind of fallen out of favor for a while in pedagogical practices, and I think that it is making a comeback. We start to see lots of certificates in translation at universities, undergrad and graduate level. They're all over the place now. Why not? We're all so interested in translation and coming certified. There is a global need. And our students want jobs. Our students want to major in something that they know will connect to their real world and will make them human. And Google Translate will never be, will never be enough. You're right. And I think that our students are more focused on inclusion and diversity, for sure. And yes, mistakes have caused this. That's one of our big lessons in class is some of the translations that have gone wrong in the past. It has caused illness and some places that, whoops, hang on. And what do you think heritage learners might have in terms of advantages in the translation? What would they already know how to do well? They know both cultures. They get the jokes sometimes, right? They're in on the jokes. They get the register differences. When I say something like, let's get on the seat versus make a blessing. They already perceive the differences in informality, even if they've never heard those words before, they pick up on kind of subtle people. They have that bicultural confidence. Our students, let's see what else do you say. They know, they know more. They have knowledge of the cultures, and they can relate to their own knowledge. And they've, I think, been in these situations before where they've had to be language brokers or language mediators in those situations. Okay, so maybe you have not used Mentimeter before today, and now you've used it three times. I'm sure you are mentored out at this point. And we're seeing, there's a lot of screens up here. Let's see, if I click, talk about the history of translation and education. I just kind of put this up there so that you can see that ever since we have been teaching languages, we have been using translation as a pedagogical strategy. Sometimes we view it as very favorable. Sometimes, like some of you say, we were taught not to use translation in the class. I would say that the recurring theme with how we do translation in a language class tends to be where we view that there is a text in language A, and we have to get it into language B. And language B should have no rascals of language A in it because it should be totally separate, right? And we do that like my students call it the floor is lava game with their translations, right, because there is this side and then there's this side, and that but it's in between should not have any evidence on the result that we give and text B. Unfortunately, that's really not how our brains work. Those of us that live our lives by ruling. So, if you were one of those people at the beginning of class or at the beginning of this workshop that said, yeah, they taught me not to ever use translation and language instruction because you're missing out on all of the context and all of the social cues is not real language. I would like for you to maybe think about translation in a different way today, but sometimes translations do have the rest of the previous language in them, and sometimes our texts are lived by lingually and are better when they are bilingual. And sometimes translations give us windows into both cultures at the same time and allow us to experience two languages in a classroom and two cultures at the same time. Maybe you also mentioned social justice in the mentor meter. I also would like you to think about translation as a way that we can help our students connect to social justice aspects of their skills that they already have right because they can use their translation skills to benefit their community. So, what are some ways that our heritage learner students already use translation or translation type skills in their daily lives? For their parents, yeah. Do they often have to translate for their parents at the doctor? What else? They're in teacher conferences. Translated said, oh, wow. Helping other students? Well, the grocery store. What else? Did you ever have to translate for your parents? Immigration forums. Talk about high stakes. Yeah. Our students already have a good idea of what it's like to be a translator or interpreter. They've already done it in their daily lives. They've done it where the stakes have been high sometimes like in the doctor's office and filling out forums and telling their parents how they did in class. Not sure how they're going to navigate that one if it didn't go well. But our heritage learners are already very experienced with some of the aspects of translation in their daily life. So I'm going to show you today how, when I teach a translation class, or also when I teach a grammar class, how I incorporate translation to teach different aspects of the language. A lot of times when I teach grammar, when I teach vocabulary, when I teach syntax, when I teach pragmatic, and when I talk about language rights and language equity, a lot of those kinds of skills, I build them through translation. So this is when I said that I wanted you guys to open up the slides. I think this is slide six. If you could all go with me to the Jamboard. I don't know. Have you guys used Jamboards before? Okay, I guess it's like a typical pandemic thing now, right? When we taught online, we all had these Jamboards. Oh, but you can't see. I can see it up here. Okay, I have to. All right, we got to do this in show. We don't all teach at the same level. So we're not going to be teaching the same grammar vocabulary, syntax, and pragmatic concepts in class. But if you can put a sticky note or two of maybe some topics. Maybe some different topics. One of the ones I do a lot with translation is transition words. There's always a lot of translation words and texts that students don't usually use in oral communication. What this one means with syntax, this was just a fancy way of saying that in Spanish, we don't always go subject verb, like we have to in English, a lot of sentences with verbs that have to do with things arriving or appearing. The subject naturally falls better after the verb, and our students aren't always aware of that. And so I teach that through translation things like jiggle. So that's what I'm teaching verbs. Teaching reflective ones. What are some other advice and requests? Maybe some of you, any of you teach dual language and have to teach content areas like science. Okay, you could think about specific vocabulary domains within a science class, or a social studies class. What subjects do you have in Spanish? That would be translations would definitely have some vocabulario de la universidad. Subjects, materials, matriculas, you could do that with translation. Word order. Maybe somebody could put something about questions. Questions have different word orders in Spanish that we don't always use in English. Sometimes my students also want to know how to swear. In college we can do that. Very good. Different types of activities that we could do in class by incorporating some translation work. I know that many of you were probably taught that translations are very discreet and boring and erased context of real life communication, but real life people like our students are already translators, so we might as well get them from compound and complex sentences. Okay, so on the PowerPoint slide it tells you why don't you take one minute and look at one sticky note. What kind of text do you have with the person or the two people next to you? Why don't you think of a text type that might have that structure in it that you could use for translation? One sticky note in where you might, what kind of text you might use that would have a lot of that recurring structure, vocabulary or complex. You've got a minute to do that. So I'll share with you some of the kinds of translation projects that my students have done, and I'll go through the process of how I kind of look at a text and pull out things that I think students are going to need to know before they work on the translation. And then I'll give you some time to work on a synthesized version of an activity. So one of the things that my students did once this translate legal briefs for equality texts is a organization here based out of Austin that fights for transgender rights. And so they gave me their legal briefs. This was what they gave me, obviously they gave me quite a lot and we divided it up and we worked on it. Before I gave them the text I read it through and I picked out some of the pitfalls that I thought we would be able to do. And one of them was gendered language. So when I look at it, how would you translate. Most Texans believe that. How would you do it, just if you were, la mayoría de los dejanos creen, which that's how I do it too. And that's how they did it too. And then I said, but let's try to take out los dejanos this time. And of course they said, well, we could put an X or we could put an aroa. And I said, yeah, yeah, you can, but let's try to do something else like let's say la mayoría de la gente te cana. Right. So I was trying to take out any reference to gendered language. If you care, let's call it using a name where you have a noun like personal next OK, instead of a noun that would correspond to a social gender as well. Another thing that I picked out, I saw a lot of I and G words in this text. And whenever you see a lot of I and G words in text, it's a great opportunity to teach students about infinitives and garrans. Because when they get in that rhythm of just translating literally, they want to say what here. They love seeing, they love I and G, because in English, we love I and G in English, and they want to apply it to Spanish. So we talk about that. Another thing whenever I see lots of different conjunctions, it's a good opportunity. They love por qué de, I don't know where they get it from, but they love por qué de. So we talk about, well, can you start a sentence with por qué, what do you do, how comes there, how do we use como versus por qué versus por. That's a whole lesson out of there. So anyways, I usually pick out a couple of grammar topics, a couple of vocab topics for person mini lessons and then we start working on translation. Let me show you another example of like a thought process. So there's a school here in Austin, where most of the students speak Spanish, most of their parents speak Spanish and their conduct was only in English. And so we talked to the school. That was also the year that there were lots of reverse about ice raids, and in a class of 20, one day, five showed up. So it was very important that semester for the students, they really felt the pressure of like high stakes getting it right. They really wanted their translation to get quality. So when I write through the manual and divided up, I said, okay, manual language sounds very impersonal. How are we going to do that. So this is a great opportunity for us to learn how to do impersonal sentences with say, they are not very good at that, but they're not very good at it because in daily life, you don't use impersonal sentences right. It's, it's harder for them. I think it's something where English and Spanish are quite different. So, yeah, they're their first impression was not to use any says, and we worked on that. There was a lot of like, passive voice kind of things that I didn't love. Um, I also noticed that there was going to be a lot of future. So that was a good opportunity to talk about when should we use one of the received person to receive it and two different options what do they mean that they're kind of the same, not totally at the pragmatic level so we talked about that. And one that's very difficult for them is applying formal or informal. So now you should consistently. They love to mix. And especially commands. I'm not sure why in commands. It's like a fuzzy area for them. So we talked about how to select one and how to be consistent. And then we simply had a lesson on how to use word reference and determine how to form or the informal command. Just off of word reference to make sure that we had like a check for ourselves. So this was obviously version that they came up with. And another fun one in here in Texas, we have Mexico Museum. And they every year do a very nice day of the dead exhibit and they have a program where they bring elementary schools and they have this big study guide, and they didn't have their activity guide for the bilingual teachers, they were giving them the activity guide in English and said, Well, we can help you guys with that. And so we translated their activity guide. And one of you mentioned that it's fun to tap into the creative process and translating this is one of the things where we really got to be creative because what was the crossword. So what makes for the same. And you're welcome to click on the and see the full activity guide. I just gave you an example of using that they translated for it. I mean, one of the big things that we worked on was capitalization, because they, what do they want to do here. They definitely want as tech and my jet to capital because that's what it is in English and so we work on capitalization. And I mostly give them texts to do from English into Spanish, but this really had to do with social justice so we took it on anyway, even though it was from Spanish and the English. We were contacted by a pro bono lawyer who was doing a case that she can really tell us about. And that it was an asylum case for a trans person that was trying to gain asylum here in Austin, and they were preparing the case of this person and so they had lots of articles in Spanish, and we had to translate them into English. And we don't do that route but it was really connected to social justice and there were so many different things that had pedagogical value and they're the biggest one I noticed was when we had proper now of organizations. So we talked about how do we decide if we're going to leave it the same or if we're going to change it should we like translate association to association of or should we just put association at the end or should we leave the abbreviation what do we do. And so he looks for options about that. And there are translations were used in a legal case. I also did a lot of like brazil verbs and like how to searching Google. If you put it together just in quotes to figure out what's going on and get it in context and then I think I just listed a couple of more. I normally, and it depends on how many students I have and how strong they are, but I usually pick two or three big ones for for semester and then two or three small ones for semester. So why don't you think about wherever you live. Probably, most of you are here in Texas but not all of you think about your own community in what text language minorities in the community don't have access to, and what they might need access to it could be really local. It could be something at your school. It could be something in your community could be like some clinic. It could be, I don't know posters that you've seen at the grocery store. Think about something, because we'll work with that in a little bit. And before I send you off to do your work preparing an activity. This happens a couple of times while we're working on our translation, I prepare reflection assignments. I'm kind of like that. That really like down to business straight professor in some ways, but I really kind of am. And I used to hate reflection assignments because I thought that it was like a filler project and like, it was just like get a pad there grade and I don't care what you like to what you didn't like you didn't like it. But I have really changed my perspective on reflection assignments in the past three or four years, I would say, I now give reflection assignments after we do our first round of translation so after we've had the many lessons on the vocabulary and we started working on it. I give them reflection assignments that asked them to identify specific strategies that they used when they approach their translation. And then after they read through it and find things that feel off specific strategies that they're going to fix it. And I'll show you some questions. But also apart from just giving them direction on how to monitor their learning and how to think through the revision, the reflection assignments also give us space to really think about social justice in the language classroom and why we have such an asset that we can use for our community. So let me show you a reflection assignment. Here we go. Okay, so I think this might have been one for a doctor's office. Okay, but I asked them, you know, some questions about social justice. Why does this document disturb a translation? Why do we need a translation? What is this about social justice? I asked them sometimes some easy questions like what was difficult about this and they have to give me something specific. This happened to be, I've got to keep that information that was actually a specific strategy that we were working on in that chapter called So I asked them to revisit that strategy was another strategy that was specific to that chapter. So I asked them to pick from them. And then I asked them, this is like the meat question I asked them like what theory or what grammar topic did you apply in what chapter was it in show me that one right and they go back to that and then they have kind of a more concrete way of monitoring there. I'm going to give you guys some time to work on a translation activity. In a perfect world, you would be able to upload yours back to the, to the Google five, but it's not a perfect world classroom. So what we're going to do is this you can see that file in my folder, but I'm going to give you a paper copy. I would say work in pairs. I think if you have, I think if you do it in pairs. Nothing bad will happen if you work in groups bigger than that. I would say work in pairs or more or less. I will give you a copy to write and maybe just take one per pair. Okay, that's one per group of three. Yeah. So sometimes when you're put on the spot you're like, I'm not quite ready to like pick my own text. I have some sample text up here that you're welcome to use to think about for translation activities but I would say first, try to think of a text that maybe you don't have one gun on your computer, something that you think it already exists in your community but should be translated and isn't. If you run out of ideas. I've got let's see if you wanted something easy. I've got a poster here about COVID safety rules. Yeah, and those are on there too but I if I'm going to work with the text and I have the option of a paper copy I always want. I have an intake script for an asylum case. I have something about climate change because we talked about colonialism in Puerto Rico. Yeah, you can just take one. So if you can think of your own text, use your own. If you want one of these. I have, what is this? I have a narration that I've separated in sentences. If you'd like to do a narration. Yeah, you can do one of these. Or I have a poster about therapy services for a child. Whatever you want. I don't have time anymore now that I can't see the time until four. Yeah, so take about 15, 20 minutes and I'll come around and offer some ideas if you get stuck on one of those areas. Fill out your sheet on paper and then later, I can scan them, write it down. You can browse, you can shop for a text if you would like a text. You guys have a text? Do you guys have a text? Did you come up with something? You have a text to use. You've got something. I have samples and I have paper copies of those if you want one of those. Yeah, they're all over there. Feel free to go shopping for a text over there. Yeah, do you guys have a text to work with? Okay, so let me some grammar topics that you think these texts that you found would work for. You can just throw out a couple of grammar topics. Sure, give me some ideas of some grammar topics that you found that would be good many lessons to do before preparing students to do these translations. What are some grammar ones? Uh huh. Commands. Signs are really a great way to work on commas, because for some reason our students love to mix formal and informal. Yeah, what else? Articles. When to put it. When to put it. Yeah, I get a lot of like, you know, like people always say, yeah, so articles, when to add them, when they're necessary. What else? Other grammar topics? Questions. Questions. The order of words in a question. Do you have the narrative one? Yeah. The narrative one is great for past tense. So after grammar, what did you guys have next? It was after grammar. I would say that that might be a phrase idiom. See, that would be an idiomatic phrase. Difficult feelings. Difficult feelings. You don't have same deal. Yeah, that would definitely be under these like idiomatic phrases. So then you have to say, well, what's more important? Like, you know, yeah, what are we looking at here? You know, like, what do we know about this? Like, what do we know about difficult feelings? Like, difficult feelings? They're definitely not. What did you come up with? Problematic. They might even say like express distressed or something. I don't know, because it's, see, see, expressing some problems or something. Yeah. Yeah, because it's not difficult feelings. So I'll give you a few more minutes and then we'll share some things. Okay, you guys shared a lot of grammar topics with me already. Let's look at step three. What were some either idiomatic phrases or difficult vocabulary concepts that you notice when you read the text that stuck out to you as something like, oh, this is, this is going to be, this is going to be tricky. But if it all words about ownership and properties and ground covering, and we have a pool and the ground covering and how I would begin to talk about permeability. Yeah, there's probably a lot of very specific words in that. What else did you guys find in your text that were difficult vocabulary domains like that, or idiomatic phrases in particular. And I guess it makes sense that in if you, if you're 18 years old, you probably haven't had to use a lot of numbers in the hundreds you probably don't have a lot of money, you probably don't have to make, make number decisions. So yeah, why would they know that's something that you'd have to talk about. Yeah, you why would they know that yet it's just like why would I know to talk about ownership in Spanish until somebody's given me that opportunity to explore that domain. What else, what were some other vocabulary domains, or idiomatic expressions that you saw that you go up. That would be something we need to talk about before I turn them loose. What else caregivers protective parents, protect. What would you, how would you approach a lesson where you say okay we've got this specific vocabulary. There's some idiomatic expressions in there, who has had the idiomatic expression about feeling that was an awkward. What was it. Difficult feelings, we got to talk about difficult feelings that's a hard one because they're not sending them those be faceless. Right, they might be in commos, they might be almost but yeah we've got to talk to students about okay well what, what are we going getting at with this text in the beginning, why, what's the message that we're trying to get across. And then we have to think well how formal is it, you know, is this really formal or is it informal should we approximate with feeling. In Spanish I don't think I don't know if we have a difficult emotions. Yeah, it doesn't quite line up that way but they could be them as the faceless, right they could be them as if it but I don't think we have difficult emotions. I haven't just think that anybody else come up with a very unusual or what you do with it, what do you think how would how would we help students. Yeah. Sometimes we got to move around things yeah. So. Yeah, but you can see that we could spend. That's probably another pragmatic level, probably not what they're going to text, but we could have a conversation about formality level and closeness. So what were some topics on mechanics. We kind of forget to teach things like utilization and punctuation quotations look differently in English and Spanish and if we're producing a written text that somebody's going to read, we have all these mechanics that we forget in Spanish what were some things that you notice that you could teach off of a translation or punctuation marks mean kind of the same thing but are realized slightly differently in other languages right. Yeah, those kinds of things. I always notice capitalization issues. I noticed capitalization issues all the time, maybe like days of the week. No months. Even like subject names, when they do vocabulario de la universidad. Those are always things that I have them mark and double check. And especially con los gente lisios, like, you know, the one that said like many Texans believe that, obviously the first time they wrote los tejanos thinking I didn't want their loss. Tejanos, but I also in when they, then they fix it to la gente tejana, but they had la gente tejana with big tea, and I didn't want that either you know there were all kinds of many lessons about that. So, for the step five, I'm actually going to go back. Sometimes it's good to have a model, just in speed out of the vocal. So this these were questions that were very specific assignment. Now that I think about it, I think this was one that they had done after care information for breast cancer patients. I think that's what this one was. Anyways, I usually try to give them about five specific questions. And when we get to the next slide and then we will be almost. When we get to the next slide, I will give you some more like guidelines, but how many of you already got to write three reflection questions about your translation. Okay, take one more minute and get at least a reflection question and then I'll have everybody share their favorite reflection question. So get at least one take one more minute if you haven't done that yet. And if you need some inspiration. Any questions that I asked them. Merita or a Merita both work. So I'm a Merita Merita. I'm a Merita. Volunteers, could I hear some of your ideas for reflection questions. And I would say, not all reflection questions have to be specific, but you should always have some that are specific. Some can be general. What did you guys come up with to find something formal and something informal. You guys had one with lots of commands in it, didn't you reflection questions, examples, somebody else. I'd like to hear five or six sample. Whenever we tell them like, was this hard or was this easy way. Or like, no, it was fine. But giving them a specific thing to talk about helps them kind of monitor that learning. Yeah, in the commands, like asking them, how did you make that decision because we make decisions when we talk constantly. I realize that we're making decisions right like I'm constantly probably deciding how formal or informal to be, how much I can use my hands without looking, you know, nuts and we were constantly making those decisions and we got to teach them to reflect on those decisions that they've been making. What else did you guys come up with for reflection question. Yeah, I did some kind of a museum text. There was something about we feel is, you know, the font shows that what they might have, and what it was like, what do we do are we just going to call it a we feel and just put we feel but say it will be in English. Yeah, it will show we call it a bunch of. And so what we did. Yeah, we had we ended up calling it a repeat but in parentheses explaining and I'm sure with. Yeah, with. Yeah, and they came up with a short phrase as I don't go nuts but you know something short in parentheses, and they ended up adding adding because culturally, the languages didn't line up evenly where there was one specific word that worked with. I mean, it was, you know, it wasn't really upon show but it was kind of upon show but we couldn't really say poncho because, you know, and so we sometimes have to add things and ask students how they made those decisions. Any other reflection questions that you wanted to share. Questions are questions are hard for us to monitor where we put things. I've noticed even really advanced heritage student heritage learners students sometimes have difficulty in questions, knowing where they want to put the subject and asking them what what do you think about when you made that decision kind of helps them situate themselves back in the press, especially when they get in that like, I don't know this kind of like rhythm where they, they just start like doing literal translations. It's really good to give them those reflection questions about well, what are you trying to do why do you think the author sort of this way and bring them back into that thought process. I think there's a weird one with with verbs in English, we often use the present progressive to talk about the future. You say like, Oh, am I picking you up at the airport tonight. And then, but you're definitely not picking up at the airport tonight, because you're not doing it right now it must be right, or you say things like, Oh, I'm working tomorrow. You know, wait, it doesn't line up the same way in English and Spanish and we have to make those decisions because they likely know implicitly that I'm working, but you can say I'm working tomorrow, but you can't see if we're working tomorrow. Yeah, we've got to line those up again right they don't always mean what they mean at the superficial level. Okay. That's it. Anytime I see ing I always plan a mini lesson on that in the text because they love ing in many ways and then, well, because in English it's very common we have lots of jaren's we do a lots of things with jaren's more than alternatives, and bringing them back and then not everything's and we can't do that all the time. So, then the last question was, I think, I guess, I'm struggling with moving that how they will revise their work, let me give you some thoughts, and then I'll hear from you. It's always hard to come up with a plan to revise work and it's going to depend on how big your class is. Sometimes I have 25 students in the translation class, and it's a circus. If we all work individually with right into sometimes that means that I have to shorten the translation projects and give them less so that we can really revise it and get quality work. If the stakes are not high. Then I don't have to revise it as well, but most of the things that we do that are for a big grade it's because the stakes are high and these are real people that are going to be basing real life decisions on the words that we write for them and want it right. And so a lot of strategies that I've done before are welcome. Work on the essence, work on the assignment, have them work in pairs. I often pair up a heritage and second language learner, because they kind of tend to complement each other with different knowledges. I usually have more heritage learners and second language learners in my classes though so it's not always a perfect mix, but I often do that. I always try to grade their reflection, because they don't know what to fix until I remind them that they have to fix things. I always try to separate at least a week from the first draft. They actually get to read my comments on their reflection assignment and start over, because everything sounds great to you when you have both languages side by side you're like I would totally say at this like, and you wouldn't. Right, but I always try to distance them for at least a week before we go back and work on it again so we work on something else in the meantime. And then a lot of times I have them grade. So I have them work on their revisions and their grade either comes from how much they revised based on their reflection or how much they offered to somebody else to revive. Because in my classes, not everybody has the same linguistic experiences, and some of my students are able to offer more corrections, and some of my students can't because they don't have as many. They haven't had as much input in their life. So sometimes so they can pick whether their revision grade comes from how much they offered as a suggestion to somebody else, or how many suggestions they incorporated from somebody else. Otherwise, it's just not fair because they all have different experiences and like, so what are some ideas that you had about how students could revise their work. And even present on the decisions that they made about, yeah, that's nice. Talk about how they made those decisions of what to pick. That's great and especially reminding them to be very intentional about how they're fixing things. Yeah. Otherwise, some of them are great at turning on that monitor, and some of them just go with it. We got to remind them to turn it on. I think a lot of times we were taught not to incorporate translations in the language classroom, because we have this idea that there's like a right answer with the transition, and there really isn't a white right answer because we're all going to receive texts differently as readers we all have different experiences and are going to want something different in that text and we might need a different level of explanation right like we might need more parentheses. If I'm translating with me into English, whether or not if I'm translating it I don't know into another language that we might have different levels of familiarity with things. What else can we do to help students revise this one that's kind of by in it's online the devil's bridge. If you wanted a narrative translation this is one of the options. I have people work I do like the jigsaw technique. Yeah, and I'll have a lot of people work on like one through three and then a lot of people work on four through six. And then they combine and then they look at it together and pull out decisions and they kind of debate out which situations were best. That's another strategy if you're just doing a short translation, like separated into sentences like this one here. I think this one ended up with 11 sentences. And then I'll usually have like some people. I'll say okay you guys do one through three and then you guys do four through six and then like okay, well, you've all of you had one through three so what did you say what did you say what did you say and like I don't know how but which one's better. Oh which one has different elements that we could combine. Yeah, so I have a lot I have students. A lot of times like work independently and then bring it back together and make those decisions. Yeah. I haven't done that kind of like telephone strategy but that yeah, but I do like to have students like move back and forth between my which is in the classroom. The idea that like oh when we're in a Spanish class. Like, that's not any of our lives. Have you ever, like, you know that people speak both languages have you ever just spoken one to them for that long. Right. So I like that idea of going back and forth and playing with the languages, you know I'm not going to pretend that I don't know English in the Spanish class because I lived in my life in English to it's fair that I can pretend that I know that. And I think that's a great strategy of having them then do the inverse and see if it lines up with the original message and intention, and it might not sometimes which would be interesting. Right to see where those gaps are and how we divide up the world different languages. Any other thoughts about that should revising the translations really is a hard part you really have to come up with a with a plan before they get started and kind of parcel it out for them. So, okay, these would be some of my recommendations, obviously, in a perfect world we would have shared those online, and you could have seen all of the grammar and vocabulary topics that other people thought it's like, hopefully you got to share. And before you got some ideas that way. Um, I recommend if you're doing high stakes translations and to have only two or three for semester. If you're not ready to do high stakes translations that real people will use in their real lives, then you can do more. Right. It depends on the level. But for a high stakes translation, it should not be one great it should be lots of grades like it should be how well did you learn this grammar topic and how well can you explain this grammar topic and how well did you find it in this. And then how well did you reflect and then how well did you revise or offer revisions to another students and then how well did you turn in the final copy. There should be lots and lots of different grades on it. I also like to have students work independently and then work together and then revise independently and then share it again. So we do a lot of back and forth movement. Um, I also teach them how to like search words in Google, because I'm terrible with preposition sometimes it's like is that on or is that in which one is it and I just Google it in quotes, and I teach them how to Google things in quotes and like when you don't know what how what's what sounds more natural. We spend a lot of lessons of just learning the symbols and word reference so that we can all be independent translators and go back to word reference and use our materials online. And I teach them how to be tricky with Google searches and get better Google searches so that they can get better ideas about what sounds natural. And I do work at a university that is socially just as social justice oriented. And so this is part of our curriculum and this course is flagged as a social justice mission marker in our university. And even if that's not a goal for your university, I would also encourage you to think about how so how social justice is completely connected to translating and interpreting and how you can incorporate that as the why for students. And then I have offered translations on like the student parent handbook that they did so well on right after that I gave them a narrative translation which have been way easier. And it just wasn't very good. And it wasn't very good. Why do you think motivation that because I was like this is this is not very good use of the dictionary and they were like, you know, I was really going to like base anything off of it so I just picked one of the words that I saw in word reference and went with it. Right. And so, having that social justice connection to translate about how their ability connects to the real world and can be used to improve language equity and language access for people in their community kind of establishes the why. I don't do the certification but I, I met some pay everything's different now after the pandemic, but before the pandemic I had someone come in and offer a presentation to students about becoming certified. And they can do it if they want afterwards. Everybody has the same level in class and I would say, at least half of my students really could, and could do it well, but there's close to half that might not be able to get certified so yeah I don't do the certification process but I used to bring in and have them present how the students to get certified in different areas. They can't use my. Yeah, it's just a college class for the major. Yeah, or, or if they're not necessarily a major but they need hours in experiential learning for social justice, they take this class because they, and that's also why a lot of the reflection questions are about that. Anything else. All right, see you guys. Yep.