 Let's jump into our agenda review. Don't forget to put your name as an attendee in the agenda document here. I'll post a link to it here in the chat. So please put your name there. Let us know that you were here. And let's review the agenda. Take a couple seconds to look at the agenda, see if there's anything that was missed. Anything that you'd like to add. So we'll wait about 30 seconds and then we'll solidify the agenda. All right, what do folks think? Is there anything you want to add, remove, modify? It looks like we've got Dusty here today. So let me change that. Okay, let's jump into it. So we are actually, we're not doing introductions anymore. If folks maybe identify themselves the first time that they speak, that's always helpful just so that people can put a name to a face. And Vadim is out today. There's a note here about vSphere over installs in 4.7 should be fixed. And older Fedora Core OS should be used due to that F cost bug. And without Vadim here that actually takes out a chunk of some of the things that I wanted to talk about. But let's bounce over instead to Dusty for some Fedora Core OS updates. Take it away Dusty. Hey everybody. Yeah, I don't have a whole lot. I'm kind of standing in for Timothy this week. I would love to come every week. I just don't often find the time. But what I would like to say is Timothy mentioned to me that he wanted me to bring up the fact that the DNF counting support is now going to be defaults in Fedora Core OS. So on our testing stream, we just rolled it out. So basically when nodes do updates, it pings our server and there's a unique ID and stuff that we can kind of start to see how many people are actually using Fedora Core OS. It's completely optional so it can be opted out of. But it's very similar to what Fedora is already using for workstation, server, cloud, etc. For kind of getting some sort of numbers. If you've ever seen Matthew Miller give his state of Fedora talk, you've seen graphs and that's where all of that information kind of plugs in. So that's pretty much it. Just an FYI there if you don't want to opt in, then basically you can opt out. And I'll put a link to that stuff there since but even in here, I'm not sure exactly, you know, when that'll roll out to OKD, but should be at some point in the future. Thank you, Dusty. And moving on to a docs update, Brian, you want to chime in with the state of OKD.io? Yeah, sure. So, I've created a beta site. Diane, we might need your help there getting someone to turn on the GitHub pages for the OpenShift site. So I don't have access to the settings tab. So someone needs to go in the settings, go to the pages tab and just enable GitHub pages on the beta branch. And then the sites should just pop up. It's the root of the beta branch. And then the beta sites should just pop up, serve from GitHub pages. So that is basically what I had on my personal repo. What I'm currently working on is moving the homepage so the content is in Markdown and we stylize it. It's not going to be as fancy as what's there with all the animations and all that stuff. It means that the content will be updatable in Markdown and you don't have to go into the template and write all the CSS and the HTML to get it to look good. So I'm doing that. And then it's really going to be a question of getting community feedback in terms of what color schemes do we want. I'm trying to go with light and dark. So we've got two different color schemes, one light and one dark. It's really then where do we want the menu? How do you want the menu to be structured? What color schemes we want? What styling we want? And then once you agree to all that, just then make sure we have all the content need to cross into the beta site. And when everyone's happy with that, we can flip it over into production. And for those who don't know, we're adopting a technology which takes pure Markdown with a couple of extensions to convert the static site. So rather than middleman where you need to be more of a front-end web developer to actually modify content or moving to a model where it's pure Markdown. And we're going to use GitHub Actions. So a Git push to the main branch will actually trigger an update to the site. So we don't need any sort of additional pipeline help from within Red Hat. We can sort of be a bit more dynamic without doing the content. Thank you, Brian. Dianne, you have something. I'm muted, of course. I'm talking to myself. So Brian, I will reach out to you in Slack and walk through all of that. I may have privileges. I doubt it that I have the privileges to do what you've asked me to do. But I know people. So I know a person who knows a guy who can get that done for us today, hopefully. Basically, anybody that goes in and has the settings icon will be able to do it. I'm pretty sure I know someone who has that. Hopefully he's not on vacation. Actually, one of them had just had a baby, so he may be on PTO. So we'll figure out what that is. The other thing is I have a resource, a third-party resource that works for me on other projects that if we trained him up can help with color schemes, making things beautiful. He has more skills than my MS Paint skills. So I'll reach out to you, Brian, and introduce you to him and we'll see. And he's also, I think, a good litmus test for if we've got enough documentation for everybody on how to successfully update this stuff. So I'm going to see if I can repurpose him from doing some stuff on the commons website and get him to help with this transition. And it's a paid resource, so that's also helpful and get him involved as well. So hopefully that will help us move a little bit more quickly to getting this done. Because trust me, I would like to get off the current situation as soon as possible and make this more community-oriented. So let's see if we can do that. And I can do that offline with you and via Slack and everything else. So that's that was my update on where I can help you guys out. Awesome. Thank you, Diane. And another thing that came up, Vadim isn't here, so we can't really tackle it at the level that I wanted to is documents group talking again about breaking down and moving the different components of the Read Me. Brian has done that to some extent already in terms of the menu choices that he set up in the beta. And so once that's visible to everybody, and once folks have had a chance to play around with it, then we can actually turn the Read Me and the OKD repo to just a basic Read Me with links to all of the different components and different ideas as opposed to trying to Right there and put it all in one document. I do want Vadim to be a, I think it's, it would be beneficial to us to have Vadim chime in from an engineering standpoint and from the, as the sort of maintainer of the repo as it were with his input on that. And regrettably, he hasn't been at this is not this one and he hasn't been at wasn't at the last one. So we won't be moving forward with that completely until we sort of get Vadim gets some feedback from him on that. The other thing is how to ask questions. This is if you look there was a pinned comment by Vadim in the OpenShift users channel. Let's see. I'm trying to think what day it was. It was the 27th at 5.07 AM. Let me copy this here and paste it. But in short, Vadim did a good job of sort of laying out what is helpful and what is not helpful in terms of questions. And let me post this here. And I added a little tidbit that I thought was helpful and he agreed with that and it'd be nice to actually get this as like maybe a small document. I don't know of any resource that's there's always the general and I can't remember the website off the top of my head to how to ask questions. There's like a website that actually like elucidates how to do this. It would help Vadim and other folks who are doing support stuff in the channel and the other places where people have been showing up in the discussions or whatever to be able to reference something that's a document that says, Here's what we need. You know, when you're asking for help, you know, we need your your log, you know, we need what version that you're running and we need to know what provider that you're on must gather is like, you know, Vadim probably 80% of the questions that he goes to respond to, he has to ask for people to provide a must gather. And that's takes a lot of time and it delays our ability to help other people as well. I think the docs group will will tackle this probably at the next meeting. If folks have suggestions, feel free to shoot an email over the working group email list or throw something in the chat or if you want to say something right now if you'd like to add something. But I think this would be really helpful for supporting people the best that we can as well. Any feedback on that. No feedback. Maybe that means that's a good idea, or really bad idea. I do not know. And then training materials for doc support resource. That's something that basically that is to have something that we can get folks to do doc support continuously over time coming up with that docs group will be tackling that if folks have input on that. Feel free to shoot something out over moving on to issues. Are there any issues that folks wanted to bring to our attention and the issues list here is issues list here. And I didn't see anything that stood out as being need as needing discussion. Other than I just noticed that I don't think anyone responded in terms of the CRC questions. So we can respond to those with the new bill that Charo did last week, which I think resolved all the outstanding issues. Anything else in the issues that folks wanted to pull out and talk about just just to double check. That's the one that you update the OKD base CRC bill 786 that you're talking about. Yeah. And that's. Yep. By proto Sam. And believe that that was done. So I'll check and see, but I believe that that was done. Is this one that keeps happening each time we put out a new release? Is there something we can automate here? There is. And this is something that when we do the automation will be resolved. So when we do come up with an automated solution and modify some of those build scripts and stuff, this will be resolved. And there's another CRC ticket that is. Yeah, so it's those two actually so by Josh core, which is the shot and then. So 808 and 786 we can update. Anything else on issues? Let's move to discussion items. Were there anything in the discussion items that folks wanted to discuss? I'll just note that Vadim strategy of getting folks to do discussion instead of issues is actually turned out to be really wise because a fraction of what comes in is actually issues with the code base. Any fashion a lot of it is just education or directing folks to the resources or nothing really came in. I did want to and Vadim isn't here. So I didn't put it on here, but you'll notice in discussion 784 and I'll put a direct link to it. It's a technical discussion. So I don't want to have it without Vadim or maybe Christian or someone here. But basically, Eduardo ended up writing a very detailed document that I don't know that it wasn't put in this ticket, but Eduardo had a couple tickets open and ended up actually writing a document about their evaluation of OKD for the company that he works for and why they didn't choose it. And so my thought was, I guess we'll do it at the next meeting if Vadim is able to show up or Christian is to work through some key points of that document to determine what feedback we can run with and improve the offering versus something that's just the nature of the beast versus something that we'd like to do but we just don't have the resources to do. Did anyone else get a chance to look at that document that Eduardo posted? Yeah, I think I think what wasn't he the the user that was trying to do things with changing the base domain. Yes, that was one of the things. Yeah. Yeah, he had a usage model that didn't fit Kubernetes and OpenShift in the way that the roots and the base domain was doing it. So I think that might be part of it. I haven't actually just reading through. I've read the document but trying to work out what are the bits he was specifically saying were the problem. And what didn't fit but I seem to remember we had several discussions around he was trying to change the base domain and was having difficulty coming up with the model that he wanted in terms of getting sort of work coming in through a firewall or something or through some external roots. Yeah, and I think he wanted to have multiple clusters serviced under one FQDN and and the way that he wanted to do it. He didn't want. I think it was either way. He wanted multiple domain names served by the same cluster. And it was things like the OAuth endpoints that couldn't be changed to multiple domains. So, yes, I think there was something with the model that didn't quite fit the way that if you do it the way that OpenShift and OKD wants it to do it works. And I think there was a model that didn't work. Yeah. And that's something where there's just a built in limitation there and it used to be that you could change the console URL. But now you can't change it. I think you can once actually I don't think you can work around that I think actually the console URL, you have to rely on using that long URL, because the authentication bounces or no actually there is a parameter that you can set to where you can still change the console you can you can still change the web console URL. However, what you can't change is if you want to serve multiple. If you want to do a multi tenant OpenShift from a single OpenShift cluster which is essentially I think what is use case was, and I think it's actually a fairly valid use case. OpenShift itself, like the add on components that make up OpenShift and OKD of course, don't support this. So, Kubernetes does because you don't actually have to have the web console in Kubernetes itself. And so what you can do is you can deploy Kubernetes and then deploy multiple instances of web consoles and have each web console deployed with a different set of things. And so it can look multi tenant with a single cluster manager. The route that Red Hat has taken for this is they're using OCM to do this as Red Hat advanced cluster management through Kubernetes. However, that is currently non functional on OKD. So, without that working on OKD there is basically no multi tenant path for OpenShift for OKD right now. So, OCM is about to go into the sandbox at CNCF and I know a person, a bunch of them. Should I be bringing the OCM people here to the OKD working group sometime in the future? Okay. This is actually something that my team, so at Data, we're also very interested in this for a similar reason. We want to basically on demand multi tenant for spinning up tiny dev clusters whenever they needed in developer environments. We also want to orchestrate prod and staging from the same systems and we want them to be essentially centrally managed as much as reasonably possible. And it looks like the OCM stuff is the way to do that, but there doesn't seem to be a way to use it with OKD, which is kind of where we want to go for the dev stuff. Let's pull back a little bit and actually say what OCM is for people who are going to be open cluster management. Open cluster management project for Red Hat advanced cluster management for Kubernetes. God, that's a mouthful. We are really bad at naming things. So anyways, just enough said, but the OCM folks and I don't know if Data, if anyone at Data has reached out to the OCM group, they have community meetings as well. So that might be Juliana Sue is the engineering lead and sort of the community lead for that initiative. And it's basically what they are is open sourcing advanced cluster management because we open source everything we acquire. And the good people at Staff Rocks are. We found out that OCM was fully open sourced. Three days ago, because I saw a YouTube video that said, yeah, we made a new RHA CM release. It is open source now. And they pointed us to a website and I went and looked at it and it's like, not complete. Like the, the, the deployment is not complete. Yeah. It's all there, but the deployment is not. Oh, my colleague is down here, which means. Hi. Yeah, no, I've been here the whole time. Hi, Daniel Axelrod also from data. I've been in a few of these before. Um, no, we have not reached out to OCM. Um, directly yet that's that's a good contact. I'll make sure that that we have that conversation. Thank you. Yeah, no, let's, let's please do that because they are applying for sandbox status in the CNCF right now. And so the more external voices that are like, hey, this is a good thing will help them. So they will listen because they will listen anyways. Juliana is great. So let's do that. And I have had a conversation with them about making it work with OCM. Okay. And it's just, it's a bandwidth issue. It's always a bandwidth issue. For folks. So let's see if we can't do that. Is anyone from dado by any chance going to coupon North America in person. Um, not to my knowledge. Um, I will. I will likely attend virtually. Um, but. Yeah, yeah, I. Everything is everything is wooly and pending all other things and it's. Yeah, I just, maybe it's not so good. I think, I think it is just like since most of all of us are remote, but what I'm always looking for is people who are in the vicinity of Los Angeles. Um, because those probably would be the only people who are allowed in the country or in the state at that juncture. Who knows who knows to participate. We have a colleague that lives in that area, but I don't, that doesn't necessarily mean we can like send them to it, but. Um, that, that being said, like, it would be great if Diane, you could hook us up with a contact of the OCM team and then Dan and I can start talking with them about it. Um, provisionally, like, I'm not saying this with like any particular guarantees, but I think provisionally, we could try to. Rangle up some ability to test OCM on in our. In our environment to see, you know, how well it works and give feedback to the team. If that's something that they're looking for. I can't really commit to anything yet because like everything's kind of like up in the air, but that's certainly it's something that we care about enough that we're super interested in that we would. Um, that, you know, we can try to make some openings to. To try to, to try to do that if it's wanted. Yeah, no, it's definitely wanted and I was just going to say also in at the commons event, if dado shows up, we're doing a whole series of lightning talks in the afternoon. So those may be virtual. We have no idea yet, but. Well, I'll see if there I'm making a note to connect you to Juliana. So. Thank you. Excellent. I'm going to put a link to. I'll put it in discussion items, Eduardo's. Okay, do you bear metal install. Instructions slash critique. And then we'll bump that to the next meeting to delve into that a little bit and I think it's just. I think it's good practice. Like if we get to you, particularly if someone goes and take the trouble to write out something so detailed of an analysis of a voc ad as an option to take that feedback and at least look it over and demonstrate some. Some, some response to that. Right. So we'll do that next time around. Code ready your code ready container status. The event was a success. It seems like we had at 1.20 some odd people logged in for it. Which I think for a live event on a Friday afternoon is a good thing or Friday morning. Some what's what kind of feedback do you have or have you heard. Did it get us anybody else to help build. That's that's my question. I'm, you know, or what is the next step to make enable someone other than Charo to make a to build and release a CRC. Container for O. K. D. that that to me is that the measure of success. This has got people maybe interested. It sounded like the next step was more documentation. Yes. And so. So, I know that. From our perspective, we're. Entitively interested in being able to in doing that. Certainly. Something that is kind of a concern is the fact that this has not been automated before. I think something that we could possibly do is. If there's interest in like automating the, the build and release of that. This is something that we might be able to help with because it would be useful for us as well, because what I think we would want to do. You know, just speaking for myself, having to work with O. K. D. stuff at data. Something that we have for our own workflow is that we actually spin up. Simple clusters that we can run as a VM on our computer to, to stage and test the new version. And test our, our, our workloads and stuff on it to make sure that the features are there and the stuff like that works. Before we actually deploy into production, because deploying a production cluster is such a pain in the butt and such a lot of work. That it's much easier for us to be able to be able to do localized testing basically on demand to do that. And since we don't have. And so CRC seems to be like the path to be able to do that. For that with O. K. D. 4. Then we need to, we would want to be able to, to build that continuously with newer nightlies or whatever based on whatever we're trying to figure out. So the, the open question at this point is. You know, how difficult is it to replicate, you know what, you know, any missing documentation needs to be filled in. No conversation with Charo and us and whatever. But also the final step is asking the question of why was this never automated. Because like everything else about the open shift deployment process. The open shift build and release process is automated, but CRC somehow isn't. That is a little weird to me in the 1st place. So I don't, I don't get what, what happened there. So having looked at the documentation. It's not hard at all. And I mean, and if you follow what's there. It appears to be pretty easily see I right. My sense is that we could actually do a process and that automation process and. Make that process available. So make the scripts available that we use to do that, et cetera, and make the whole thing. Open, we can ask Charo my senses that. He might have an answer. We asked Charo about why it was neglected in terms of a automated build, but I don't know that. I don't know that there's a technical reason, right? Like, because there's a Pandora Jenkins that could just do this on like, let's say a weekly or monthly basis. That, you know, we can just pop it in there, have it run the job and then Fedora infra can just make sure that the artifacts are auto exported to the end to the place on deal. Then there should be no reason that doesn't just happen all the time. Well, and I was suggesting that we do it against the nightlies. And if that's too much for Fedora folks, then we could do that. I'm sure someone would offer space. I might even be able to offer space to do that. But it'd be great to do it against the nightly so that we always have. Like a sense of where things are going, but sorry. That's that would be my question is what what what's stopping us from from doing that. Like, is it just. Because that would be for me 1 1 way to really showcase the ok d working group. Stepping up and doing that externally to the red hat engineering and maybe. Being able to showcase some of the work that that you're doing at data or whomever ends up hosting it too. So. Is there something I don't think either of I don't think either of us a data would actually have a problem about helping set the even within the auspices of the door project. Both Dan and I are actually members of the Fedora community as well. And so we can, if we were doing it, I expect. That even if data were like doing some of the effort to make this happen. We'd probably want to drive it so that it's actually executed within Fedora. So that it isn't it isn't gated on us like we are not. We don't own it and it's something that can be shared upon with the rest of the community. And we sure will probably make it in a way that lets us also build it internally for our own cases as well. But we certainly want to make it so that it is a public resource that is supported well that way. So one of the things this actually leads into one of the things I put on the agenda for the CRC discussion is does this necessitate or does this lead us to having a subgroup that is CRC and have a page that is and that's not in someone else's repo in our repo. The CRC build process a link to scripts. Okay, the working group maintains those scripts, etc. We get feedback from data. We get feedback from Fedora, etc. But ultimately it stays within the working group as a project that working group members can see people live. So that makes sense to me. That's what I would expect it to be whoever whoever is. But the scripts to build the software should be versioned with the software that that is that is the absolute right sense in my opinion. So if that's if that's this working group, if that's like, yeah, I think it's this working group. But what I would like to see also is maybe a page showing how folks can do their own automation for their provider. Right. Exactly. Like, like, so whatever, wherever if they've got a Jenkins setup in AWS or in another OKD cluster or wherever they have it like to be able to to set it up with Jenkins or Tecton or, you know, whatever you've got, like it'd be nice to have some examples of how to do that in all of automation providers. That's a good point. If the configuration for that becomes run this script that's already in the repo that does the things then yeah, agreed. Yeah. All right, well let's I'm interested in participating in that it sounds Neil and Daniel you seem interested in that Daniel do you prefer Daniel or Dan, by the way. Um, either one doesn't doesn't matter. Not Danny, but Dan or Daniel twice. You had to specify I was going to say so does that mean Danny's mind too. Jamie, I guess one question I've got what is the execution environment for this because looking at the playthrough. It seemed to be run on live within sort of a workstation environment. I didn't get the sense it was potentially something that could run within cluster. So it is it going to be running against a v sphere or an overt or a. Yeah, so. So, yeah, can I say something? Oh, sorry, Bruce. I know you a while back you were going to say something. Yeah, go ahead. I was on this. Yeah. No, I tried it. And it looks like he's going with latest latest of everything. It almost worked. It got it got up to where all of the class all of the operators came up except for DNS and authentication. And then it died and it I ran it on a knock. I 10, which was more I already had sitting there which is more or less sent OS stream, which he was using so. His script is quite clear. I didn't have a chance to go through and figure out why it didn't go up. I'm guessing that like there was a lot of stuff where you can't use the latest F costs. And there were other people had overt problems. So I'm guessing that that was one of the reasons why the networking had some hiccup that didn't cause DNS to come up. Yeah, Bruce, just to let you know, Vadim put a comment on an issue three days ago where the drop back to the previous F costs. So the use one of the newer nightlies, you may get a better result. Yeah, no, I saw that and that seems to be a recurrent theme, which is a bit annoying because it means that a lot of the installations and or upgrades. I've gotten to the point where I don't expect it to work out of the box. And a year ago, for a long time, maybe six months, things did work out of the box. Basically, I think that was back when we were when F cost was version 32. The question for Vadim might be how is it? How are these slipping through their process to where these aren't building successfully. And theoretically, I mean, maybe they're not using the stable next and the third stream that F cost provides to test all of these iterations. But ideally they should, or we should, right? We should be setting up an automation that tests against all these F cost versions coming up. Yeah, well, that was one of my thoughts was. Sorry. When it when it comes to open to development, I don't think they're doing anything against F cause at all, which is probably they're actually doing it against sent us. Right. Yeah. Right. And that's, that's where the impedance problems are like. Yeah, if they're not simultaneously testing every commit landing into into open shift on both our cause and F cause, then this starts falling apart a lot. Sorry, Bruce. Yeah, no, I was just going to say that. With a lot of the scripting. It probably would help to expose the, the choices of F costs, as well as okay D version, so that you just don't hard code pulling the latest of the latest. Because then, then when you, if you just run the script as Charles is, you don't operate or you know what you're necessarily getting. So I mean that that's sort of a minor probably change as I say I haven't had a chance. It takes about six hours to run through the building the cluster on a knock with his configuration. Okay. So it's not something that you can, from a time standpoint easily just sort of make a change. Clean it up, try another thing, clean it up, try another thing. But it's, it's not withstanding all the things that you might think is negative is actually pretty good. It came close, you know, to to working. So I was actually hopeful. Let's throw a lot of resources at it. So let's actually get together a group of folks I'll send an email to the working group mailing list and said hey if there's anyone else interested in joining the CRC subgroup. And then let's go from there let's just okay so Neil Daniel Bruce sounds like you're interested. Let's just tackle it through what resources we have I've got a box that I can test it on do some automation will start a repo. And let's just run with it and see where it goes and anyone that's interested in jump on and I think this is great because this would be the first other than the documentation. This will be the first technical project related to the OKD word. And I think that that's a great rallying point, because it gives people something tangible that they can really bite into in terms of their participation and what not technical participation. And as we know, small single node clusters, home labs, etc, are like the, the, the sweet spot. There's so many questions of the OKD in the OKD community about can I run this at home can I run this can I do single note, etc. So this sort of answers a lot of things in the community. Diane everything okay. Nobody was hurt. That's all that counts. Okay. Apologies. All right. Any, any last thoughts, the CRC stuff. All right, so we'll get a repo up. And Daniel, if you want. Put your email and your get name in the document. Neil, I think we already have years on some stuff, but I'll make sure that you get added on Bruce as well. Brian, you have any interest in this? Or are you are you text maxed out right now? No, I'm interested in this as well. Okay. And if anyone else on the call, if you want to just type your name in the channel if you happen to be on the call and you're interested in CRC. Subgroup and doing some technical work, feel free to throw your, your get name in there and we'll work with that. So, did you want it in the hack and D document in the chat? Put it in the hack and D document. Yeah, that'd be easiest because we lose the chat when we close the meeting. So. Unless we specifically save it. Okay, so, okay, the operator catalogs. I can't really ask these. I was, I was hoping for Vadim or Christian to chime in. And just to reiterate, this was, I want to find out what red hat we can bug about this internal effort to get some of the operators like the logging operator and pipelines and whatnot. And hopefully there's an effort within red hat to get these opened up, get the red hat versions actually opened up and available as opposed to using, you know, tech time. There is and the operator framework is a CNCF project to, and they have community meetings so that maybe what I need to do is show up there with this as an agenda item. You know, one or two of you in that. So, put a note in there to find out when the next community meeting is for the operator framework in the notes and maybe Jamie and I or somebody and I can show up there and see what we can do to move that forward. Okay, so, is this going to be a community operator? Because I mean, there is already the community operator hope community repo. I thought this was going to be an okay D. But they, but there is, we need some more clarity around the red hat supported ones and most of the folks that are working in the operator framework. Community are those engineers. So, and we can also ask the questions in, in the, the Kubernetes in the, I think it's in CNCF slack. There's a slack channel for operator framework, but we can track that down and start asking those questions because they are, they just did a couple of an update the week before last on the operator SDK. And I didn't bring up okay D, but they, they are doing a lot of truck thinking about this. I'm not sure what they're doing to work around it, but they're thinking about it. Yeah, there is an operator SDK group operator SDK dev, possibly it. But yeah, let's take a look at that and then it'd be great to get some clarity on that because we have that one issue that lists all of the operators and they're sort of broken up by the three categories. So we have that it'd be nice to get some clarity on where that top category of like the ones that we're sort of waiting to get addressed are. The other thing that I have on the agenda here is where can the community start. How can we inspire folks that are asking about these operators on okay D to build themself or recruit people recruit people to get these properly tested on okay D so that they can get added in. Anyone have any thoughts on that. Well, I'm sure I'm supposed to have thoughts on that, but I don't have the answers on that one. And that's why I would move over and ask on the okay D. I'm not the okay D. The operator SDK group and the operator framework groups there because that's where the engineering resources are right now. I think originally we had a few of them coming over and filtering into our group. And then they created their own community. So they're over there. So if we want stuff on okay D. I think we need to go to them. Can I ask a question. Yeah, okay. The, because I was. I went through and was about to update an operator that was using one of my classes. And then it turned out that I noticed it is. Since I updated to a recent 4.7 from 4.6. My operator was now controlled by the samples operator. And so, of course, it wiped out my update. Because it was inconsistent with its status and I thought, okay, that's interesting. And then it occurred to me. Well, okay. We maybe did have a mechanism for updating like things like the samples operator separate from the main update of everything. Because it's a bit hazardous to update your entire cluster. And there might be some subcomponent components that were less risky that you might want to update in the middle of in between doing a major update. And I don't think we have that sort of mechanism at the moment. No, no. Okay, so that's that's sort of my question is throwing out. That idea is that it would be useful for an operational standpoint. I think that's good. Let's put that actually in the document under operators. Bruce, go ahead and type that you got the document open if you want to go ahead and type. Yeah, I do. Yeah, do it under the right where you see my cursor for operator catalog stuff. I think that's a great question. I think that's something that we can ask from an engineering standpoint. Moving forward, like what types of options are there for that. Okay, anything else on operators before we move on to new business stuff. Got about 12 minutes off. So I want to keep us keep us on time. All right, let's move on then to new business stuff. So migration path outline. That's something that we're going to want to work on with between maybe Vadim and the documentation group is a document that shows you know if you're at such and such version, you can go to such and such version. Here are some issues that you might have, etc. This is going to be on the agenda for the next docs meeting next week. So if you have anything you want to chip in on that, feel free to send something to the to the mailing group. The working groups mailing group user group and we'll be sure to include it in that discussion or join us for the docs meeting. Same. That time same that channel just next Tuesday. So the next thing I wanted to throw out is what do people think about a user questionnaire. Getting a sense of for the folks that are using it. What are they using it for? How do they where do these theoretically we have lots of I don't remember the number that Vadim gave but theoretically we have lots of folks installing okay D. So it would be worthwhile to get to put up just a questionnaire out there and then promoted in the channel and the mailing list and whatever. If we came up with some, you know, two or three questions really basic ones. What, what are your workloads? What version of okay D are you running? You know, what's your, I don't know, like if you come up with what they are, we could host a link to the survey on going. I would love to know that without, you know, people who, you know, invading people's privacy or GDPR stuff. I'm always curious about that. I've done a few in the past. That haven't gotten a lot of feedback, shall we say, other than probably the group of you guys who are all on here right now. Thank you very much. But like at we could do something at commons. And with the commons mailing list, I'm trying to just about to launch an end user page for that. And I really would like to know who's got okay D running, who's got OCP running Rosa, but a lot of that is competitive secrets or whatever folks think. So anything we can do to find out and familiarize us ourselves with that. I have it sneaking submission that there's a lot more people than road in shorts and market America using it in enterprise production than we suspect. And I think that's what Vadim's data shows us. So asking them what their workloads are would be really cool and getting more of them to showcase that. And also, I think there's a huge folks, a group of folks using it in homelabs and doing and the CRC stuff is going to be of interest to them and others. So, yeah, I'd be happy to help shape that. And if you guys have suggestions for questions, maybe we can create an issue or a discussion point and people could in the comments help develop like, I'd say to limit it to like five questions. And then we can socialize it as a poll at the comments event at coupon on on the landing page and give it like a three month. Period of the survey is open and at the end of the survey, we could do the state of okay D sort of like the opto verse, the okay D verse or something like that report would be cool. I like it. I like the idea of the okay D verse. Create a discussion item and then if folks have ideas, go ahead and chip it into the discussion and yeah, I think you're right. Just a handful of questions, no more than like six. That would be the absolute max. You don't want to overwhelm people so they keep putting it off. You want something that like, it's in front of them like, oh yeah, I can do this real quick and just put in my. Yeah. Cool. And let's see if there's one thing I want to point out. There's clearly people that have interest. So for example, the okay to working group meeting hasn't the video from the last meeting has 97 views so far and it was posted like just the other day. Hopefully there are people who are at least interested in what we're doing and what's going on. So it'd be nice to bring new people into the fold and to find out the people who are currently using it like what they're doing. That might inform us getting more folks involved. See what else do we have here? Oh yeah, Diane. Yeah, so yeah, and this is just if you're listing out there on the recording and you're going to coupon. Let me know. I'd love to connect with you there, create a space for the folks to meet there either on the 12th of October. We are going to try and do an office hours during coupon. And, you know, the CNCF is still mustering through and saying we're going to be there in person. I personally cannot go there because I'm up in Canada. There's not there's just a little border between us and you and that they're keeping it pretty stringent. So I'm going to be hosting the virtual side of coupon and the commons. So I'll be online all the time. But we do have a space available on the 12th for a meeting if people are there. And we will do a live streamed office hour then, which I will get myself organized and invite you all to again. Excellent. From all of your faces. It doesn't look like anybody here is going to be there in person. Yeah, no. No, I'm having a small child. He just turned 1 on July 31. He can't get vaccinated. So I'm sort of by default cannot go to any large. Yeah, I totally understand. And I'm not asking people to go. Let's see here. Oh, speaking of events. Diane, do you have a sense of when we want to do another office hours? Well, I was going to wait until it's 7 weeks out to do 1 during North America week. So I'll work with Chris Shorten. Josh Berkes are managing the office hours for all the different community groups. And so okay D is on their radar. So hopefully. I can nudge them to give us a date and a time and socialize it. We can see which 1 of you wonderful people will be there and maybe Brian by then we will have the site. We can migrate it over to a real world mk docs. Thing and we can shout about it and invite people to find our grammar errors. Oh, okay. I got something I got quite I go ask and down you sort of host a number of communities, including the key, which I know you guys call quay. Um, um, is there any chance of doing like a collaboration with them on getting it running on. I think that'd be a really good thing to have a, a sort of a private registry. And it's not an easy process out of the box on okay D, but with the operator on open shift, it's a couple of button clicks and you get the whole stack there. So I'm just wondering, can we actually do a collab with them to try and come together and actually get it. I know we've got to do storage, get that working before we can put the sort of repo on there, but I think that that would be a really good. So concrete step and it moves our operator story that little bit further on as well. Yep. So I have, I'm going to do the outreach to the OCM folks get us there. We're going to do some outreach to the operator framework folks and get us there and collab there. I think the remainder of 2021 and going into 2022 should just be more collapsed. You know, and figure out how to, how to extend awareness of okay D and to make sure that okay D works with all these other pro and takes advantage of that. And the quay folks, I actually started out managing their community and they have moved and we got a couple of things. And so hopefully, and they have community meetings too. So there's nothing precluding any of us from going to their meetings. But maybe we could, you know, I'll put that in my notes too. And then see if we can't move that one forward too. And just if Brian, if you're interested, what I'll do is I'll try and find the date and forward it to you for the next meeting. And if I can get there and you can get there, we can talk about it and you can tell them what you need. Okay. All right, guys. All right, anything else any last minute thoughts we've got two minutes if there's anything else you've got. No. All right. Thanks everybody. Thanks for putting up with the noise in the background and the crashes and stuff. Eventually, it'll be done. Take care. Bye bye. Bye y'all.